August 6, 2012

The Sikh temple shooter's band: End Apathy.

[UPDATE: I have many posts on the subject of the temple shootings. I would appreciate it if seemingly respectable journalists would take some time to discover what I am actually saying before indulging the usual shameless political nattering, which I'm seeing now at Salon and Esquire.]

ORIGINAL POST:

The Southern Poverty Law Center put out the early characterization of End Apathy as a "racist white power" band, but I'm not sure how they know that:
A MySpace page for the band describes them as an “old school” band with “punk and metal” influences.

“The music is a sad commentary on our sick society and the problems that prevent true progress,” reads a description of the band on the MySpace page.

[The now-dead suspect Wade Michael] Page...  interviewed in April 2010... said he started the band because he wanted to “figure out how to end people's apathetic ways” and that it would "be the start towards moving forward."

The band's songs, Page said, were based on a variety of topics including, “sociological issues, religion, and how the value of human life has been degraded by being submissive to tyranny and hypocrisy that we are subjugated to.”...

“Back in 2000 I set out to get involved [in music] and wanted to basically start over,” he said. “So, I sold everything I owned except for my motorcycle and what I could fit into a backpack and went on cross country trip visiting friends and attending festivals and shows.”
MORE: At the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
The Southern Poverty Law Center, a group that has studied hate crimes for decades, reported Monday that Page was a frustrated neo-Nazi who had been the leader of a racist white-power band known as End Apathy.

Heidi Beirich, director of the center's intelligence project, said her group had been tracking Page since 2000, when he tried to purchase goods from the National Alliance, a well-known hate group.

The National Alliance was led by William Pierce, who was the author of "The Turner Diaries." The book depicts a violent revolution in the United States leading to an overthrow of the federal government and, ultimately, a race war. Parts of the book were found in Timothy McVeigh's getaway car after the bombing of the federal building Oklahoma City in 1995.

Beirich said there was "no question" Page was an ardent follower and believer in the white supremacist movement. She said her center had evidence that he attended "hate events" around the country.

"He was involved in the scene," she said.

Pierce is dead, and Beirich said the National Alliance is no longer considered to be an influential group.

Also on Monday, a volunteer human-rights group called Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.) found links between Page, his band and a white supremacist website called Stormfront.

Jeffrey Imm, who heads R.E.A.L., said in an interview Monday that someone based in Milwaukee using the name "End Apathy" began posting on the website in February 2008. Additionally, appearances by Page's band were promoted on the Stormfront site, including a white supremacist gathering in March 2012 in Richmond, Va.
The Journal Sentinel includes some links to places I don't want to link to.

IN THE COMMENTS: Sorun said:
By the way, what happened to all of the dangerous white militia groups in the 90s? They were everywhere! Did they all just decide to go bowling instead?

How much money did the SPLC raise from that great crisis?
CommonHandle said:
I find it a bit creepy that SPLC defines its "intelligence project" as following around anyone who has an association with people or groups that espouse racist beliefs, even if nothing that individual has done or said themselves comes across as overtly racist. Creepiness aside, aren't there plenty of real racists out there? people who regularly and unambiguously engage in racist speech? That the have a "profile" of this man isn't only kind of disturbing, but it seems pretty frivolous.
BarryD said:
Sometimes I think the SPLC figures that every time there are two or more white people standing on the street together, it's a white-power group.

That said, this guy was, indeed, not apathetic, in the end.

Too bad, really.

There's a lot to be said for apathy, especially among those who are fucked in the head. I think that apathy saves our society from many ills, actually.
Chip said:
From the article:

"According to Heidi Beirich, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center 's intelligence project, the group has been tracking Page since 2000, when he allegedly attempted to purchase goods from the neo-Nazi National Alliance."

How does the SPLC have access to to information about a private - and perfectly legal - commercial transaction?
Michael Ryan said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it weird that the SPLC allegedly knows what "goods" people are purchasing, and is following people around the country? An entire group built around stalking?
Sorun said:
The SPLC didn't prevent any of this.

What the hell good are they if they're going to get in everyone's business but not accomplish anything other than paying their own salaries.
Rob Crawford said:
The description of his band sounds like "Rage Against the Machine" and that "Peace Through Music" crap.

Thank goodness we have SPLC to tell us which is a hate group, which is a bona fide band, and which deserves hundreds of thousands in charity dollars!
Chef Mojo said:
The description of his band sounds like "Rage Against the Machine" and that "Peace Through Music" crap.

That was my first thought, too. I wonder what SLPC's criteria is in this charge?

Again, not saying he's not a white supremacist, but I'd like some very specific evidence as to why. Actually, I hope that's what this pathetic loser was, so we can get a partial explanation, so the people dealing with the aftermath of this atrocity can start to gather their lives back together.
And TMink says:
OK, it sounds like this guy is an actual, you know, racist. This is what racism looks like. It is stupid and violent and senseless.

Using the term for anything else makes horrid racism like this more acceptable.
ADDED: Whatever the degree of racism in the the punk rock music, the music is less connected to the murders than the "Batman" movies were connected to the Aurora murders. You have these artistic forms of expression that entail violence, and then you have one person who crosses over into extreme violence. What is the relationship? Be careful about seeing a stronger causal connection because you don't like the artwork in question — punk rock... Hollywood movies.... Let's try to find out what is true, not what we want or don't want to believe.

UPDATE, August 7: Here's some useful individual information about Page, based on an interview with someone who viewed him as his "closest friend" a decade ago:
Christopher Robillard of Oregon, who described Page as "my closest friend" in the service more than a decade ago, said Page was pushed out of the military for showing up to formation drunk.

He described Page as "a very kind, very smart individual -- loved his friends. One of those guys with a soft spot." But even then, Page "was involved with white supremacy," Robillard said.

"He would talk about the racial holy war, like he wanted it to come," Robillard said. "But to me, he didn't seem like the type of person to go out and hurt people."

Later Monday, Robillard told CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight" that Page likely sought attention to his beliefs "because he was always the loner type of person. Even in a group of people, he would be off alone."

Teresa Carlson, the special agent in charge of the FBI's Milwaukee office, said investigators have been told Page may have been involved with the white supremacist movement, but that hadn't been confirmed. No motive for Sunday's attack had been established, but the FBI was investigating whether the killings at the Sikh temple were an act of domestic terrorism, she said.

Page moved back to Denver after his discharge, where he had a tough time in civilian life "and was basically living on the street," Robillard said. It was during that period that Page joined a "racist band" and started to get his body inked, his Army buddy told CNN.

"I asked him why he was aligning himself with this stuff," Robillard said. "He really didn't answer. He would duck it."

Page had a girlfriend who left him for another member of the band, which then kicked him out, Robillard said. The last time they saw each other -- more than 10 years ago -- Robillard said Page was on a motorcycle trip across the country.

It was a trip Page recounted in 2010, in an online interview about his band End Apathy. He founded it in in the small town of Nashville in eastern North Carolina, where he ended up after bouncing around the country from California to West Virginia.

"I am originally from Colorado and had always been independent, but back in 2000 I set out to get involved and wanted to basically start over," he said.

The band put out at least two recordings through a label that promoted them on the neo-Nazi website Stormfront.
ANOTHER UPDATE: More here, with specific detail on Page.

124 comments:

dpoyesac said...

If the SPLC puts out a 'characterization' you should at least link to SPLC instead of a sloppy Huffpost summary:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/08/06/bulletin-alleged-sikh-temple-shooter-member-of-neo-nazi-group/

Dave Weigel actually does some journalistic legwork and fills in the blanks about the 'white-power' bands:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/08/06/the_sikh_temple_shooter_and_his_lousy_racist_hardcore_bands.html

Mick said...

Just like in Aurora, the media is taking the script and pushing the "lone gunman" meme, while witnesses saw other people involved. This guy says it was FOUR white males.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ6VXdojF68

In Aurora, supposedly Holmes bought a ticket and sat in the theater, then went outside and returned. Witness (Corbin Dates) was sitting right behind man that got phone call and went to the front exit, propping door open and talking to someone outside, but his testimony is buried. Media pushes "lone gunman, and doesn't even ask in 3 separate interviews whether the guy on the phone was Holmes. The correct question would be "did the guy have ORANGE HAIR"? NO ONE saw a guy with ORANGE HAIR in the theater, nor sold or checked a ticket to a guy w/ ORANGE HAIR. The fact that the media and investigators are ignoring testimony that goes against the script is a huge red flag. DHS setup of returning terrorist armed service member propaganda.

NOTICE--- the "shooter" served in PSYCHOLOGICAL OPERATIONS of the Army!!

Sorun said...

Shaved head = skinhead. I'm seeing the connection.

pedestrian said...

Skinhead doesn't equal nazi though.

Auntie Ann said...

The celtic cross (his has a big tattoo on his left upper arm) is also widely used by supremacists.

Icepick said...

Shaved head also equals "going bald and not going to fight it". I was in a wedding a couple of years ago, and I was the only man in the wedding who hadn't shaved his head. None of the rest were "skinheads", Nazis or other white supremacist types. Just a bunch of middle aged family men with male pattern baldness.

Not saying this guys isn't a skinhead, Nazi, Klansman or whatever, just that a 40 year-old having a shaved head doesn't indicate anything by itself.

Paul said...

You mean he wasn't a... uh, Tea Party member?

Shuzam! I'm shocked ABC didn't say he was.

garage mahal said...

The SPLC sure has these groups pegged. What a depressing job.

Ironclad said...

I was listening to NPR this morning with an interview with a representative of the SPLC discussing how they were "monitoring" groups and individuals. The thrust of the interview was the reporters questions on why they had not "reported" these people to the FBI (for obviously having thought crimes)! To be fair, the SPLC rep said the people had not committed a crime, so they could do nothing.

I frankly worry about these groups more psychotic nuts. One day they will make the word "disagree" disappear, replaced of course by the term "hate."

Mick said...

Here is the Aurora witness, Corbin Dates, who was interviewed by CNN MSNBC and "Hardball" among others. Notice how the media NEVER asks whether the guy on the phone had orange hair. Dates says the guy "looked normal". Would a guy white guy w/ dyed orange hair would look normal? On Hardball Chrissy actually says the guy had a "goatee", but NOTHING about ORANGE HAIR. This is by far the best witness, but the media spends very cursory time w/ him. Matthews seems to hurry him off, and presents a strawman argument about whether Corbin though there were 2 shooters. That is not the issue. The issue is whether the guy that got the phone call was Holmes, and whether he returned to his seat. That is also left unanswered. OPEN YOUR EYES. Obama is part of this cabal of America destroyers. These incidents are both false flags, designed to enflame public opinion against guns, and allow the signing of the UN treaty against American gun ownership.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhmynRNgacs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4MW_qhAPAU

Listen closely @2:00

The Hardball video of Dates has been disabled, and the media is in virtual blackout of the Colo. shooting, hoping that everyone will forget the particulars of it, and about Dates.

Chef Mojo said...

The celtic cross (his has a big tattoo on his left upper arm) is also widely used by supremacists.

And even more by people of Scots?Scots-Irish/Irish/Celtic decent in this country and around the world. Ever been to a Scottish games? Or to freakin' Ireland? My mother wears a lovely silver celtic cross around her neck.

You saying she's a white supremacist?

Auntie Anne, it's people like you who further this tragedy with dumb, stupid shit like that.

Now, you show me Neo-Nazi tattoos, and I might give you the time of day. In the meantime, don't endanger us proud Celts with our nice tattoos, ok?

Salamandyr said...

Not saying that the guy isn't a neo Nazi, but I'd like to have a more credible group than the SPLC saying so.

The Crack Emcee said...

I agree with him about the problem but, honestly, I've never heard a "white power" band that was any good.

And, of course, that's how I judge everything,...

Sorun said...

By the way, what happened to all of the dangerous white militia groups in the 90s? They were everywhere! Did they all just decide to go bowling instead?

How much money did the SPLC raise from that great crisis?

CommonHandle said...

A couple google searches counts as "journalistic legwork"? Okay.

I find it a bit creepy that SPLC defines its "intelligence project" as following around anyone who has an association with people or groups that espouse racist beliefs, even if nothing that individual has done or said themselves comes across as overtly racist. Creepiness aside, aren't there plenty of real racists out there? people who regularly and unambiguously engage in racist speech? That the have a "profile" of this man isn't only kindof disturbing, but it seems pretty frivolous.

Does the ACLU have an "intelligence" project? If so, I think I know an organization they should look in to.

TWM said...

Please, the SPLC should list itself as a hate group.

BarryD said...

Sometimes I think the SPLC figures that every time there are two or more white people standing on the street together, it's a white-power group.

That said, this guy was, indeed, not apathetic, in the end.

Too bad, really.

There's a lot to be said for apathy, especially among those who are fucked in the head. I think that apathy saves our society from many ills, actually.

st-rev said...

Do an image search on "Definite Hate", his previous band. Images include a noose superimposed on a Confederate flag, and a tattooed white fist punching out the eyeball of a black man.

TWM said...

If a Muslim does it, it's a lone wolf and definately a crazy person. No terrorists here, trust us. But a former Caucasian soldier?

Militia! Domestic terrorist! The sky is falling.

Predicting the sun rises in the East is a bigger risk than what the MSM is going to say after something like this.

Jane said...

Great - my husband loves his celtic cross necklace, mostly because he identifies with Christianity as it is expressed in the Scottish church.

But Christianity is lately being regarded as a "hate group."

Sigh.

Chip said...

From the article:

"According to Heidi Beirich, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center 's intelligence project, the group has been tracking Page since 2000, when he allegedly attempted to purchase goods from the neo-Nazi National Alliance."

How does the SPLC have access to to information about a private - and perfectly legal - commercial transaction?

TMink said...

OK, it sounds like this guy is an actual, you know, racist. This is what racism looks like. It is stupid and violent and senseless.

Using the term for anything else makes horrid racism like this more acceptable.

Trey

traditionalguy said...

I am willimg to reserve judgement until the songs are printed.

But white supremacists do exist and they do follow the same attitude and doctrine that the the German Witchcraft organisations, who took the acronym name Nazi,also followed. German heritage is also a marker.

So maybe he is just:
a bald man,

a tatooed band leader with power symbols,

a German heritage,

a loner that cannot cope,

and a murderer of Sikhs for no reason except looking non-white, although they are caucasians.

This puzzel is missing very few pieces of Neo-Nazidom. Stay tuned.

Michael Ryan said...

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it weird that the SPLC allegedly knows what "goods" people are purchasing, and is following people around the country? An entire group built around stalking?

Mick said...

The guy was specifically picked for this false flag because he was dishonorably discharged from PSYOPS, and had white supremacist leanings. The army knew all about him, and used MK Ultra on him in order to press the propaganda narrative they are establishing--- the white supremacist terrorist returning veteran. Why are witnesses that say there were 4 men in black being ignored? Obama always foreshadows his political theater, and this was foreshadowed by DHS months ago. The Nobel Peace Prize winner is committing murder all over the world, and now he is OPENLY siding with Muslim Bros. and al queda in Syria, as he did in Libya.

BarryD said...

'Great - my husband loves his celtic cross necklace, mostly because he identifies with Christianity as it is expressed in the Scottish church.

'But Christianity is lately being regarded as a "hate group."'

Maybe just Scots are regarded as a "hate group." Personally, I think that is a bit too harsh, but some Scots can certainly be a bit grouchy sometimes. Fortunately, they know how to party, and they make the only real whisky in the world.

Sorun said...

The SPLC didn't prevent any of this.

What the hell good are they if they're going to get in everyone's business but not accomplish anything other than paying their own salaries.

dmcoxe said...

He may very well have been a white supremacist, but am I the only one to find it disconcerting that the SPLC has been actively tracking him since 2000? How were they able to get information on his purchases? And why didn't they report their suspicions to authorities? I find this all kind of creepy. How many other people do they have dossiers on?

Rob Crawford said...

The description of his band sounds like "Rage Against the Machine" and that "Peace Through Music" crap.

Thank goodness we have SPLC to tell us which is a hate group, which is a bona fide band, and which deserves hundreds of thousands in charity dollars!

BarryD said...

"What the hell good are they if they're going to get in everyone's business but not accomplish anything other than paying their own salaries."

The SPLC is certainly not alone, here.

RecChief said...

@traditionalguy:
German heritage is a marker for racism and/or white supremacist group membership. you might want to rethink that assertion. there are an awful lot of people in this country with german ancestors, you seem to be calling all of them racists and white supremacists.

Chef Mojo said...

The description of his band sounds like "Rage Against the Machine" and that "Peace Through Music" crap.

That was my first thought, too. I wonder what SLPC's criteria is in this charge?

Again, not saying he's not a white supremacist, but I'd like some very specific evidence as to why. Actually, I hope that's what this pathetic loser was, so we can get a partial explanation, so the people dealing with the aftermath of this atrocity can start to gather their lives back together.

RecChief said...

how is it that SPLC was tracking a private commercial transaction? This needs to be investigated.

Zach said...

In East Germany, about half of the hardcore punks are extreme rightists -- Nazis, or so close as makes no difference. The other half are adamantly anti-Nazi. Supposedly they can tell each other apart, but I've never cracked the code.

Michael The Magnificent said...

On his left shoulder is a tattooed Celtic cross with "14" in it. Goggling "white supremacist Celtic cross 14" took me to this page:
http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/anti-hate/symbolsofhate.html

For whatever reason, the Celtic cross was chosen by Stormfront as their logo.

The "14" within his Celtic cross tattoo could be a reference a 14 word quote by imprisoned white supremacist David Lane, which I have no interest in repeating.

Bryan C said...

The SPLC's favorite cause is the SPLC.

traditionalguy said...

We could always put the hateful SPLC out of business. We just need to start doing their work better than they do it.

ID of domestic terrorists is the subject. How can we track them?

cassandra lite said...

To the SPLC, every white man who belongs to a group that doesn't give the SPLC money is a right-wing, fanatical hate group. They're due for this decade's stopped-clock moment.

Anglelyne said...

I'm pretty amazed to see people around here taking anything the SPLC says seriously. (Except for garage, of course.) Seriously, people, the SPLC? BarryD @ 8/6/12 1:00 PM nails it.

This country is lousy with race-based organizations, some of them explicitly "supremacist" (my race über alles, e.g. La Raza), but, just as only whites can be racist, apparently only white organizations are "supremacist". (Ha, maybe "supremacist" is just code for "racist association that isn't supported by public money".)

jrberg3 said...

"The celtic cross (his has a big tattoo on his left upper arm) is also widely used by supremacists. "

Since when?? What are you even looking at? That tatt on his upper left arm can easily resemble the crosshairs of a gun. And what's with the number 14 in it?

You're as bad as the media jumping to conclusions with no facts to back you up.

Crimso said...

So he wanted to end apathy? In recent weeks, I've been really thinking about "Althouse's Law" (if you'll permit me): "better than nothing should be a high standard." One man's apathy is another man's unwillingness to jump from the frying pan and into the fire.

garage mahal said...

We could always put the hateful SPLC out of business. We just need to start doing their work better than they do it.

The SPLC is hateful because they track hate groups? Good to know Tradguy

Anglelyne said...

MtM: For whatever reason, the Celtic cross was chosen by Stormfront as their logo.

Well, all right then. Time to melt down all that heirloom jewelry and dig out thousands of gravestones across the country. Because who better than Stormfront and the SPLC to appropriate and define our ancient cultural symbols for us? I say we burn the effin' Book of Kells, just to be on the safe side.

traditionalguy said...

The celtic cross means Irish culture to me.

But the Swastika is also a type of cross with arms bent at right angles, called the hakenkreuz in German.

The Nazis stole these symbols and are enamored by them.

traditionalguy said...

Garage...You got me on that one. SPLC is hateful to many because they are an elitist group that looks down on all southerners as suspects...much like Jimmy Carter looks down on all southerners as racists.

That's why we need to do a better job than they do.

TWM said...

"The SPLC is hateful because they track hate groups? Good to know Tradguy."

The SPLC defines hate groups a little too broadly for the tastes of sane people. But see, once the real ones starting dying-out and/or becoming inconsequential, they had to do so to keep up their funding.

It's all about the funding.

garage mahal said...

SPLC is hateful to many because they are an elitist group that looks down on all southerners as suspects

I hear this mentioned anytime their name comes up. But I never see any evidence or examples. What groups are being unfairly tracked?

Sorun said...

More SPLC hate groups:

Family Research Council, American Family Association, Concerned Women for America, the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission, Coral Ridge Ministries, Family Research Institute, Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, Illinois Family Institute, Liberty Counsel, MassResistance, National Organization for Marriage and the Traditional Values Coalition.

Ann Althouse said...

SPLC will probably raise a lot of money off these murders, so it's important to think clearly about what they do.

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TWM said...

"More SPLC hate groups:"

Don't forget the Tea Party, which they don't follow around as a whole but certainly pick on a few sub-groups and in doing so cast a shadow on the whole movement.

The SPLC is about money. Like all victim identity groups and individuals. They lay claims of racism and hate in order to keep their phoney-baloney jobs.

st-rev said...

Again, guys, look at the bands he was in before "End Apathy", like "Definite Hate", whose record sleeves and merchandise are pretty hair-raising. This isn't a random guy who liked tattoos and punk rock, this is a guy who was involved with the Hammerskins for many years. You don't have to wait on the SPLC (I didn't), just hit Google.

Crimso said...

"What groups are being unfairly tracked?"

Apparently they track private individuals engaging in legal (albeit distasteful) commerce as well as groups. So let's see the list of not only the groups they track but also the individuals. I'd bet they cast a very wide net.

Sorun said...

Like the humanities departments in academia, SPLC is kind of a workfare for lefties.

TWM said...

"Again, guys, look at the bands he was in before "End Apathy", like "Definite Hate", whose record sleeves and merchandise are pretty hair-raising. This isn't a random guy who liked tattoos and punk rock, this is a guy who was involved with the Hammerskins for many years. You don't have to wait on the SPLC (I didn't), just hit Google."

Again, it's not that he might be a racist - for all intents and purposes he seems to be. Nor that he was a member of some racist bands - that seems to be the case a well. The point here, to me anyway, is that if he were anyone but a white guy he would be a lone wolf. A singular nut. Like, IDK, the Fort Hood shooter, and not a militia member or terrorist, domestic or not. Which is what he is being painted as being by the SPLC and even the always objective (righttttt) FBI.

CommonHandle said...

@st-rev:
"Again, guys, look at the bands he was in before "End Apathy", like "Definite Hate", whose record sleeves and merchandise are pretty hair-raising. This isn't a random guy who liked tattoos and punk rock, this is a guy who was involved with the Hammerskins for many years. You don't have to wait on the SPLC (I didn't), just hit Google."

I did, but I also looked at the direct evidence that was provided by SPLC. I couldn't find anything in the interview they provided that couldn't come out of any musician. Regardless of his associations, this man was ultimately just a pudgy, balding, middle-aged guy with some tattoos. Why "track" him? What could the SPLC glean from their "intelligence" that could have predicted this? What can they do after the fact that could prevent it? Are they tracking his former band members and, if so, what has that accomplished?

All they've done is give us a weak "profile" on a man that, as you pointed out, anyone with google could form, and draw attention to it only after a tragedy. What they're doing isn't valuable, it's just... Creepy.

Christy said...

Damn! So much for embroidering and beading a Celtic cross on the back of a jean jacket for Sister's birthday. Oh, well, she'll probably like the dragon tied up in a Celtic knot better anyway.

Science Daily has an article today about how race may be an issue in the election because
white voters unconsciously tend to prefer own race.
The scientist tested for racism people were unaware they had. How funny is that? Looks to me like a bogus study, designed to prove a point, but YMMV.

traditionalguy said...

So Coral Ridge Ministries is now on SCLC's hate group list. I should have known the hard line Presbyterians would make the top ten list for something. They like to fight too much.

mtrobertsattorney said...

Is someone keeping a dossier on Mark Potok? He bears watching.

st-rev said...

It wasn't my intention to defend the SPLC; I don't have a very high opinion of them. Just pointing out that it's easy enough to independently verify that this guy was a real life white-power Neonazi scumbag.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rabel said...

"SPLC will probably raise a lot of money off these murders, so it's important to think clearly about what they do."

SPLC is sitting on around 240 million in net assets.

990

CommonHandle said...

@st-rev:
It wasn't my intention to defend the SPLC; I don't have a very high opinion of them. Just pointing out that it's easy enough to independently verify that this guy was a real life white-power Neonazi scumbag."

Yes, he was probably a racist, or a skin-head, or a white supremacist, or whatever. But... So what? What has the SPLC accomplished by spying on this man? What are they accomplishing by doing the same thing to who-knows how many others? You don't like them. Okay. But, you're essentially buying into the hysteria they're trying to sell. Look at all these people! They might be racist! And, at some point, one of these tens of thousands of people may incidentally go on a homicidal rampage! Donate now so that we can... Point it out after the fact?

Youngblood said...

I went to the website of the record label that distributed the guy's music, and was greeted with an SS skull symbol against a field of iron crosses with the crossbones replaced by baseball bats. In an interview, the guy said that he'd attended "Hammerfest", which is kind of like the neo-nazi's Woodstock. End Apathy did a split 7" with a group called "Definite Hate". End Apathy's side of the record has an image of a skinhead passed out in the gutter, Definite Hate's side has a drawing of a skinhead punching a black man so hard that his eye is popping out. Two members of this douchebag's band were also members of Definite Hate.

All of this was verifiable with just about three minutes of Googling this morning, without the aid of the SPLC.

Here's the link to the split 7", by the way (it's at a discography website, not a white supremacist one):

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=3303833

Youngblood said...

Actually, according to the record sleeve, this jerkoff was a member of Definite Hate, too. Go figure.

alan markus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
alan markus said...

Another attempt - Blogger seems to be having issues with HTML tags today

IN THE COMMENTS: Sorun said:
By the way, what happened to all of the dangerous white militia groups in the 90s? They were everywhere! Did they all just decide to go bowling instead?


Here's the cultural reference to that (one of my favorite songs):

Camper Van Beethoven - Take the Skinheads Bowling

Lyrics:

Every day, I get up and pray to Jah

And he decreases the number of clocks by exactly one

Everybody's comin' home for lunch these days

Last night there were skinheads on my lawn

Take the skinheads bowling
Take them bowling

Take the skinheads bowling
Take them bowling

Some people say that bowling alleys got big lanes

Some people say that bowling alleys all look the same

There's not a line that goes here that rhymes with anything

I had a dream last night, but I forget what it was

I had a dream last night about you, my friend

I had a dream--I wanted to sleep next to plastic

I had a dream--I wanted to lick your knees

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Crack Emcee said...

traditionalguy,


White supremacists do exist and they do follow the same attitude and doctrine that the the German Witchcraft organisations, who took the acronym name Nazi,also followed.

Now don't bring that up. These fools are happy with their non-spiritual explanations for WWII - it's easier to let the rest of humanity off the hook that way. (Or themselves, I think.)

Delving into Hitler - and especially Himmler - and what they "believed," as a source for their actions, would naturally lead to an examination of what WE BELIEVE and all the ugly things that happen - like mass shootings, "Occupy" riots, nominating cultists for president, and the like.

Leave them to their delusions. Let the dead lie. Let the carnage continue.

That's the way they want it,...

Michael Ryan said...

Also, I know this is rude, but, they brought a kirpan to a gun fight.

Rob Crawford said...

And, folks, let's not forget the most important thing: this creep was "put down" as he should have been. Pity it didn't happen sooner.

traditionalguy said...

To be able to know a Neo-Nazis it helps to study their propaganda. It is powerful stuff and is all on the internet.

A basic trait is a demand for close mindedness to outsiders, but that is not the main problem. The main problem is adding a Narcissist's belief in a psychic force resident within themselves which empowers them to fight non-white subhumans by guile and when ready by the cruelest murder, and thus save the true Race.

That belief in psychic inner strength is why the symbols are tattooed on as a sign of having surrendered to that power and being a user of it. If you remember Charlie mansion's tattoos, they were not applied for cosmetic beauty purposes.

Cedarford said...

Love how the liberals and progressive jews at the NY Times immediately "framed the Narrative".
Shooter was declared an ex-military soldier and racist.

(Nevermind the guy was tossed out of the military).

Sort of like how the same Cabal at the NY Times "framed the Narrative" that George Zimmerman was a white hispanic male oppressor that stalked, attacked, and killed a "little black child unarmed but for ice tea and skittles."

The Narratives, and the obvious agenda...aren't even being masked anymore.

BarryD said...

"A basic trait is a demand for close mindedness to outsiders, but that is not the main problem. The main problem is adding a Narcissist's belief in a psychic force resident within themselves which empowers them to fight non-white subhumans by guile and when ready by the cruelest murder, and thus save the true Race."

True enough, but the fact remains that the vast, vast majority of these people are just weak-minded, stupid little douches. They pose little threat to anyone.

Identifying the one who will actually do something like this, in a sea of stupid douches, is not exactly an easy task, until he actually does it.

Crimso said...

"It's okay for some of you that we're tagged, stamped, pressed and videotaped all day long by commercial interests, but suddenly your civil rights are all violated by the SPLC keeping tabs on the known Pages and the Metzgers among us."

But you see, you know who Page and Metzger are. They're obviously watchable. Ever heard of this waste of biomass before he did this? The SPLC had. Now that might make them a valuable resource for helping to monitor the relatively unknown future douchebags, or it might make them creepy stalkers (the two possibilities are not mutually exclusive).

The "commercial interests" that I'm supposed to freak out over aren't trying to brand me as a racist. SPLC is almost certainly not tracking me, but loser douchebag would have thought the same thing.

ted nugent is a chickenhawk nancy boy said...

I just don't get it. In the first couple of comments, someone links to a Slate/Weigel post wherein you will find plenty of evidence the guy was indeed a white supremacist. Here's the money shot:

"The best evidence for this, right now, is a 2010 interview that Page gave to Label 56, to talk about his band End Apathy.
"I went to the Hammerfest 2000 in Georgia." That was a "hate rock" festival, put on by the Hammerskin organization for a number of years.
"That’s when I joined Youngland." So he was part of a white power band with lyrics like "Stand one stand all, stand up, stand proud/and raise the white man's flag."
"I filled in for various bands on guitar and bass including Celtic Warrior, Radikahl, Max Resist, Intimidation One, Aggressive Force, Blue Eyed Devils." You can probably read those names and figure out what sort of music this is. In the interest of explaining what the music sounds like, here's "White Victory" by Blue Eyed Devils. Don't listen at work, obviously, unless you're Stormfront's IT guy or something."

Now you may still decide that none of this means he's a white supremacist but that would be akin to putting your fingers in your collective ears and screaming "NaNaNa!! I can't hear you!!" I don't understand the reasoning behind your willful ignorance? I refuse to believe so many of you really want to support a crazed gunman who killed innocent people for no particular reason at all.

Crimso said...

"I refuse to believe so many of you really want to support a crazed gunman who killed innocent people for no particular reason at all."

It's easy to refuse to believe something for which there is no evidence. Or did I miss the comments where loser douchebag was being supported?

Auntie Ann said...

Gee, other people lay claim to the Celtic cross too@ No s*&^! My brother got married in India in a ceremony in which a swastika played a major part--I know all about symbols being used by one group without the approval of another. Yes, the celtic cross is used by lots of people to show their non-racist national pride, or pride in their national origin.

That doesn't change the fact that is is also used by some white supremacists groups who appropriate it for themselves.

Stormfront being one major example.

BarryD said...

"Now you may still decide that none of this means he's a white supremacist"

To me, that's not the point.

The point is that he is a rarity, even among white supremacists. Most are pathetic, not dangerous. How do you tell?

There are groups of people like this all over the country. How many actually DO anything?

The Sanity Inspector said...

IN THE COMMENTS: Sorun said:
By the way, what happened to all of the dangerous white militia groups in the 90s? They were everywhere! Did they all just decide to go bowling instead?


They all more or less shut up after Oklahoma City. I remember some of them making chastened statements of loyalty to the lawfully elected authorities of the federal government, on TV in the aftermath.

Alan said...

The Weigel piece does a pretty good job of establishing Wade Michael Page's white supremacist past. But was End Apathy a white supremacy band? Should we automatically assume that the band members were into the same stuff Page was into?

I want to see some End Apathy lyrics. I want to see the other guys' backgrounds.

furious_a said...

SPLC sure pays well (pp. 8-9) for non-profit Civil Rights organization.

Q said...

He may very well have been a white supremacist, but am I the only one to find it disconcerting that the SPLC has been actively tracking him since 2000? How were they able to get information on his purchases? And why didn't they report their suspicions to authorities? I find this all kind of creepy. How many other people do they have dossiers on?



If we had a working press in this country, those would all be questions for journalists to ask.

As it stands the hate group called the SPLC will continue on its merry way unscathed.

Q said...

Gee, other people lay claim to the Celtic cross too@ No s*&^! My brother got married in India in a ceremony in which a swastika played a major part--I know all about symbols being used by one group without the approval of another. Yes, the celtic cross is used by lots of people to show their non-racist national pride, or pride in their national origin.


That doesn't change the fact that is is also used by some white supremacists groups who appropriate it for themselves


That doesn't change the fact that your fact is silly and irrelevant.

Commento ErgoSum said...

While browsing through the SPLC's files I noticed their characterization or Ruth Bader Ginzberg. It was in a dossier on Michael Boldin.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/michael-boldin

"The (Tenth Amendment Center's) site, in another indication of its politics, rails against centrist Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg as a 'dedicated Socialist.'"

The SPLC refers to Ruth Bader Ginzberg as a centrist.

I was willing to give the SPLC the benefit of the doubt, but when they call R B Ginzberg a centrist, well that takes the cake. She is so far to the left she is lucky she doesn't fall off her chair.

Q said...

I get the distinct impression that this Weigel character would regard Lynyrd Skynyrd as a "white supremacist band".

As an aside, why are white racists always called "white supremacists"? I never hear NWA (whose name I can''t even say) called a "black supremacist band".

Q said...

I was willing to give the SPLC the benefit of the doubt


It's a hate group. I wasn't joking about that part.

creeley23 said...

I just don't get it. In the first couple of comments, someone links to a Slate/Weigel post wherein you will find plenty of evidence the guy was indeed a white supremacist.

ted nugent: People throw up links all the time. Other people don't necessarily read them. I know I don't. It's often a waste of time and possibly even a malware risk to one's computer.

If that commenter had really wanted us to read the material, he should have made the effort to provide a relevant excerpt, as you did. As it was, the commenter didn't even bother to make the links clickable.

marklewin said...

"Whatever the degree of racism in the the punk rock music, the music is less connected to the murders than the "Batman" movies were connected to the Aurora murders."

I'm curious as to how you arrived at this conclusion? Are you stating it as a fact? A hypothesis? An Opinion?

Youngblood said...

Alan wrote:

"But was End Apathy a white supremacy band?"

Well, it was founded by a white supremacist (Page), and its record was distributed by the white supremacist label Label 56. If you go to the label's website and check their politics blog, you'll quickly discover that they pimp Merlin Miller's book and candidacy. Merlin Miller is an avowed white supremacist and the American Third Position Party's nominee for the office of president. The American Third Position Party is, not surprisingly, a white supremacist political party.

So you have a band founded by a white supremacist on a white supremacist label that supports a white supremacist candidate running who's the nominee of a white supremacist party. It seems pretty clear cut to me...

"Should we automatically assume that the band members were into the same stuff Page was into?"

Well, if they're releasing their records through a white supremacist record label, the answer is almost certainly, "Yes."

However, if you're willing to scroll up a bit to find my earlier posts, you'll see that End Apathy released a split-7" with the band Definite Hate. The cover for End Apathy's side of the EP depicts a white skinhead laying in the gutter, apparently having been brought down by alchohol and the police. The cover for Definite Hate's side of the EP depicts a black man being punched so hard by a skinhead's fist that his eye is popping out. Definite Hate's side of the EP is called "Violent Victory".

The members of End Apathy? Wade (Page), Ozzie, and Brent. The members of Definite Hate? Wade (Page), Ozzie, Brent, and two other guys.

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=3303833

(No Malware or viruses.)

MikeAdamson said...

That the killing of Sikhs should inspire so much criticism of the SPLC demonstrates how put upon white Americans really are.

Weirdos.

creeley23 said...

At this point it's clear that Michael Page is a white supremacist.

Presumably that was a large part of his motivation in this atrocity, though I would still like to understand better why he targeted Sikhs, instead of Muslims, blacks or Jews. Did Page not understand the difference, as AA suggests, or did he have some specific issue with Sikhs.

I think a number of commenters here were reacting to the automatic assumption in the media that such killers must be motivated by right-wing groups before all the facts are in as we saw with the Arizona and Aurora shooters.

chickelit said...

Q said...
As an aside, why are white racists always called "white supremacists"? I never hear NWA (whose name I can''t even say) called a "black supremacist band".

This is an excellent point IMO, but one which most people are not willing to discuss, let alone accept. They didn't even listen to their best hope: link

creeley23 said...

By the way, what happened to all of the dangerous white militia groups in the 90s?

Actually by then the SPLC had already driven the larger KKK and neo-nazi groups into bankruptcy with lawsuits.

As it happens, one of my friends when I was in high school -- the Eagle Scout whom I mentioned in the recent Eagles topic -- was convicted in the 80s of plotting to blow up the SPLC headquarters and assassinate Morris Dees. He went to prison for it.

I still don't understand how he got so far off-base. He was one of the best kids I knew back then. He came from a great, stable family. He was smart, happy, and friendly. He was honest and hard-working. He avoided the pitfalls of drugs which snared many of the kids in our neighborhood.

All I know was that he was seduced by that philosophy. Being the straight-ahead guy that he was, he took it to the limit.

Revenant said...

I'm hoping that identifying this as a genuine example of neo-Nazi terrorism will make it easier to appropriate classify the various instances of domestic Muslim terrorism.

Calling this guy a "terrorist" and the Fort Hood shooter a "lone nut" is a little too obvious in its hypocrisy. Maybe now that white racists are doing it too (or "doing it again", anyway) we can finally call terrorists what they are.

traditionalguy said...

The confusion of White Supremacists motivations goes away once you see that skin color IS their religion...that's all there is folks.

To a White Supremacist the stupidity of your seeing any good in any life motives apart from Superior Nordics going to war to cleanse the earth of ignorant subhumans is all they can see. Ironically, that controlling thought actually makes them the stupid ones who have no love in their lives, ruin their children's minds and end up on the accursed trash heaps of history.

It is also totally un-Christian evil.

Conservatives need to draw clear distinctions from them. When we are tagged as right wing extremists that is what we are being accused of. We have to make an effort to rebut that and not let that tag appear true by any defense of this pathology.

creeley23 said...

traditionalguy: I wish it were that simple.

My friend had simultaneously undergone a spiritual conversion with his turn to white supremacy. The last time I saw him he preached the Gospel and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion -- after he checked to make sure I wasn't Jewish.

As I understood him, he wasn't for "cleansing the earth of ignorant subhumans." He said that the proper way to understand the Bible was to substitute the "White Race" every time you read the "Chosen People." In his scheme, America is the "Promised Land" to be reserved for the Chosen People, i.e. the White Race. He didn't care where the "mud people" went, he just didn't want them here and certainly not calling any shots in America.

I was aghast. His parents were aghast. We all had dinner that night and talked. His mother said she didn't agree with much of what her son believed, but she did admit that it had made him a better person.

Sean said...

How about the picture of Page standing in front of a Nazi swastika while wearing a white power t-shirt?

Jim Nicholson said...

So, a hate group (SLPC) calls the shooter a member of a hate group. Nothing to see here.

Sensi2 said...

Coming here I was sure to read many comments from people who could fit perfectly among the stormfront membership, they just aren't assuming it yet, i have read the pajama media partisan content for years and know all too well the recurring tendentious while fallacious talking points from many among its audience.

So yeah the SPLC must be a 'hate group', the celtic cross isn't a well known symbol for skinheads and neo-nazis worldwide, and I do feel for the people here scared to learn that their previous purchases of neo-nazi merchandising may have been monitored, really.

Sean said...

How is the SPLC a hate group? You guys are silly and look ridiculous.

You do realize that there is lots of evidence that Page was a white racist?

Why is everyone on this site acting as if this isn't true?

somefeller said...

Jim Nicholson says: So, a hate group (SLPC) calls the shooter a member of a hate group. Nothing to see here.

Actually, there's quite a lot to see here. Too bad you aren't sharp enough to notice.

Revenant says: I'm hoping that identifying this as a genuine example of neo-Nazi terrorism will make it easier to appropriate classify the various instances of domestic Muslim terrorism. Calling this guy a "terrorist" and the Fort Hood shooter a "lone nut" is a little too obvious in its hypocrisy. Maybe now that white racists are doing it too (or "doing it again", anyway) we can finally call terrorists what they are.

Agreed, and the same can be said for other politically-motivated killers, like the guy who shot George Tiller. I've never understood why there's an assumption (among some people at least) that terrorism has to be an organized group phenomenon. A single violent actor can be a terrorist, and just saying someone is mentally ill doesn't mean someone ceases to be a terrorist, either.

somefeller said...

Also, it's pretty obvious that the shooter in this case was someone who was trying to have a big profile among the white supremacist crowd, via his music career (to the extent one can call it a career). So it shouldn't be a surprise that the SPLC would notice him and take note. Given what he did, that taking of notice seems obviously justifiable.

And the critics of the SPLC here are simply idiotic. What precisely could the SPLC have done to prevent this crime? And how exactly is taking note of people who are publicly promoting racial hatred and violence, as this person did in his publicly-available and publicly-promoted music, creepy or inappropriate? The buffoons in the peanut gallery criticizing the SPLC here don't have much to answer those questions, or much else to say of any value.

AlphaLiberal said...

SPLC are the ones reporting on the activities of hate groups. They are the good guys. Of course, the right wing hates them. And Althouse wants to criticize SPLC, not any White Power groups.

At what point do you guys pause and consider may you've gotten carried away and lost your bearings? Now you're attacking people who kept an eye on the mass murderer. Perhaps we should listen to them, instead of attacking them?

And, yes, Focus on the Family, Family Research Council and the others spread hatred. They do things like try to singling out gays and lesbians and demand they be stripped of equal rights (which equal rights you refer to dishonestly as "special rights").

These anti-gay faux-Christian groups issue statements accusing gays and lesbians of pedophilia. What's more hateful than that?

From the Wikipedia page on Hate Groups:
"The Southern Poverty Law Center's definition of a "hate group" includes those having beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics."

They also list Nation of Islam.

Face it, you're on the side of hate. You want to make second class citizens of gays and lesbians. Granted, you haven't called for the pink triangle - yet.

AlphaLiberal said...

And the false prophets of modern televaneglism can't wait to use this to spread hatred against people different from them, in this case atheists.

Pat Robertson blames Atheists for Sikh shootings.

Yes, yes. By all means, Althouse, lead your minions to attack the SPLC. We have hate groups shooting up congregations and you want to attack those who track and monitor them and play petty political games. And Pat Robertson exploits it to attack atheists.

Disgusting.

Sean said...

Doesn't this prove that his band was racist?

"The white-power music scene is one of the main things that the Hammerskins do in the United States and is a “fairly important part of the white supremacist subculture" in the country, said Pitcavage. Because of Page's role in that music scene, he had already become linked with the Hammerskins through his involvement in bands tied to the group and his performances at their events."

"Page became a “fully patched” member of the Hammerskins by late 2011 after going through an apprenticeship period. He had one of their tattoos on his right arm -- a sort of cogwheel with the numbers 838 inside it (838 is an alpha-numeric code that means “hail crossed hammers,” a reference to their logo of two-crossed hammers that was taken from Pink Floyd’s “The Wall”), Pitcavage said. The tattoo also had the group’s colors of red, black and yellow."

http://goo.gl/ArVyv

The fact that the author of this blog and so many commenters are unwilling to acknowledge the truth is very disturbing. The original blog post was well after this information was available -- photos of Page with a white power shirt standing in front of a swastika flag, lyrics from End Apathy and other bands Page was previously involved in, the fact that End Apathy is on a racist record label. Why is the author so intent on playing ignorant to Page's and his band's racism and deriding the SPLC?

SH said...

Auntie Ann said...

"The celtic cross (his has a big tattoo on his left upper arm) is also widely used by supremacists."

Has anyone else ever heard this before? This is not the iron cross repo; its totally different.

John Lynch said...

Stop reporting this shit. Can no one see that the media coverage causes more death?

Mass media causes mass murder.

It's easy to throw up our hands and say "if it bleeds, it leads," but there are so many examples of news organizations limiting their coverage for ethical reasons that I don't believe that they can't regulate their own behavior.

Sensi2 said...

@ John Lynch

I completely agree with you on the know fact that our mass murderer wants their 15 minutes of fame, and that our medias are playing their part in their game, when they are not selling more paper and benefiting from it... I do think that a journalistic charter should be set to limit if not partially censor the perpetrator 'rewarding' with his ugly face and moronic biopic all over the headlines, otherwise our media will keep on creating copycats.

Sensi2 said...

@ SH
"The Celtic cross is one of the most popular symbols used by individuals and organisations to represent Neo-Nazism and white pride,[13] it is used as the logo for white nationalist website Stormfront.org."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_cross#Modern_times

Crimso said...

"I do feel for the people here scared to learn that their previous purchases of neo-nazi merchandising may have been monitored, really."

Want to name some names of the "people here?" Seriously, who here will you make such a damaging allegation against?

I'll stipulate that the SPLC is nothing but a good-hearted, noble organization that is totally above reproach. Exactly how and why are they tracking private business transactions? Would you feel comfortable if the antithesis of the SPLC (say, Stormfront, or the Nation of Islam) was tracking your private business transactions, even if you (like me) had nothing to hide?

woof said...

They didn't track a private transaction. The National Alliance is a phony Nazi organization solely used for identifying and tracking white supremacists when they attempt to purchase Nazi material.

Nichevo said...

I shouldn't have to, but will begin by saying that Nazis receive no countenance from me. Nor do Communists. If we could take every last one out behind the barn and shoot them I would bring the popcorn and, if requested, sharpen the skinning knives.

That said, let me FIFY: I feel for those (black powerists, LGBTs, married couples looking into sex toys, women seeking abortions, Islamofascists, adulterers, eaters of treif, SPLC members) who have had their commerce monitored, their library activity looked into, their gatherings watched, their names entered on lists.

And all this by private citizens? No color of law, no warrants, no probable cause, guilt by association? I bet you hated The Watchmen.

Names on lists! We don't like lists of names here in America, Sensi. That's pretty distasteful and a fellow named Joe lost his job over stuff like that back in the fifties.

But I tell you what, if Aum Rin Shinyo (sp? Who were those guys who gassed the Tokyo trains?) had adopted, say, the ch'ai or the American flag as their logo, I would nonetheless resent being asked to give up that gift from my bar mitzvah, or the souvenir from my 6th grade field trip to Ft. McHenry.

I wonder where your feelings lie, Sensi? Is there anything of yours that may have been subverted by others that you feel inclined to cling to nonetheless? Or is that unbefitting the New Soviet Man?

As for your slur on the commentariat here, someone should slap your face, but that way lies Internet Tough Guy-ism, so I'm told, and of course all right-thinking people must renounce THAT horror. So I will just say, you disgust me.

...As for that Sean or whoever is wetting his pants waiting for permission to jump to conclusions, I counsel patience in the name of the eternal dictum that "the first three reports are always wrong" and that there is no reason not to let the story come out. If you are losing an opportunity to make political hay, good, so you should.

Maybe if he had actually attacked Muslims I'd be a little closer behind you but Sikhs? Makes me think a drug deal went wrong or there was a little something extra in his method that morning or something, you know? Or does SPLC have records that this guy was really really unintelligent and could not tell Sikhs from Muslims or did not know the diff or care?


Sensi2 said...

Coming here I was sure to read many comments from people who could fit perfectly among the stormfront membership, they just aren't assuming it yet, i have read the pajama media partisan content for years and know all too well the recurring tendentious while fallacious talking points from many among its audience.

So yeah the SPLC must be a 'hate group', the celtic cross isn't a well known symbol for skinheads and neo-nazis worldwide, and I do feel for the people here scared to learn that their previous purchases of neo-nazi merchandising may have been monitored, really.

8/6/12 10:54 PM

Nichevo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nichevo said...

Just to say that delete was a double-post, oopsie.

But so...SPLC is waging a private war against...whoever. So you SPLC types are all good with these individuals trying to go out to Jihadi boards and websites and step in their shit, right? Want to share your fund-raising fifty-fifty? Woohoo! Hell, want to offer a kind word? I dimly recall you can find some of those types at Ace of Spades, Gates of Vienna, Atlas Shrugged. Tell Pam Gellar hi, she was right.

Anglelyne said...

Sean: The fact that the author of this blog and so many commenters are unwilling to acknowledge the truth is very disturbing.

Uh, what truth isn't being acknowledged? That the shooter has racist connections, or that the SPLC labels everyone and his brother a "hater" or a "white supremacist"? These aren't contradictory statements.

I don't see anybody denying that the former could be the case. You, on the other hand, seem so distressed that anybody dares breathe a word of criticism against the sainted SPLC, that it interferes with your reading comprehension.

All the "deniers" you claim to be seeing are simply people who are well aware that groups like the SPLC and their media enablers invariably wet themselves with excitement and delight whenever a "white supremacist" story comes along that they can flog like mænads into their preferred narrative. Hell, they do this even when there is zero evidence for any such thing.

In case you've been living in a cave, we now live in a society where the propaganda outlets go into overdrive to assure us that all crimes are "isolated", "random", "the work of a lone nut", and that even the most overt and hateful expressions of racism are meaningless, unless the perp is a white male, in which case his citation for jay-walking represents some deep, dark undercurrent of implicit racism blah blah blah blah blah send money...

I don't know why you find the cynicism expressed here so perplexing. Are you some kind of cloistered monk?

Crimso said...

"They didn't track a private transaction. The National Alliance is a phony Nazi organization solely used for identifying and tracking white supremacists when they attempt to purchase Nazi material."

Thank you for pointing that out (not sarcasm). Guess I should have done a little digging before making assertions, which I believe was the original point of the post. So fail on my part from the start. Do you know if there are similar front organizations for tracking other groups?

creeley23 said...

SPLC are the ones reporting on the activities of hate groups. They are the good guys. Of course, the right wing hates them. And Althouse wants to criticize SPLC, not any White Power groups.

If SLPC is going to report almost exclusively on right-wing groups and from there slide into smears of people such as Ann Coulter, Pamela Geller, David Horowitz and the always civil and erudite Richard Spencer, as "haters," while ignoring almost all the hate and violence from the left, then it's fair game to say that the SLPC is spreading its own kind of hate.

If AlphaLiberal wishes to sling the "H" word so liberally -- "maligning an entire class of people" -- then he can be a hate group too.

There is no end to these tu quoque smear wars.

I'm not sure where we go from here. I have a sour, gray feeling that the today's polarization is becoming as dangerous as the 1960s.

Sensi2 said...

@ Nichevo

Lol at your garbage, I am so glad to 'disgust you', I mean woah that you fail to notice that we are speaking of people actively participating in a nauseous hate-filled ideology which previously gave us the holocaust among others delicacies like a world war and tens of million deaths... So people buying and seeking neo-nazi memorabilia while dreaming of beating to death colored people, the supposed 'privacy' of their purchase aren't exactly of my concern, sorry pal: I am rather intolerant of intolerant people, that is, and have not problem with putting them into a special place : that trash with the 'disgrace to humankind' label.

Nichevo said...

"Woah?" Oh, I didn't realize that you were a child. Carry on then. If you didn't understand my point at first go-round you won't ever. Unless maybe I try it in the form of song lyrics?

If you had just a minute to breathe
And they granted you one final wish
Would you ask for something
Like another chance?
Or something simple as this?
Don't worry too much
It'll happen to you
As sure as your sorrows are joys

Sean said...

You guys are crazy if you think that the real tragedy here isn't the massacre of American citizens, but is instead the existence of the SPLC. You're pathetic.

jim said...

How tragic that some benighted Americans even now fail to see how the REAL signifigance of this case is how clearly it illustrates the dark perfidy of the SPLC.

I guess that brand-new pile of dead bodies must have distracted them.

Many of the commenters above are better than that; I can scarcely imagine how proud they must feel upon contemplating their clear-headed analysis of this dire threat to their homeland.

Presumably some of these same brilliant minds were strident in their protest a few years back when national research found a major rise in membership among far-right hate-groups in the immediate wake of Obama's election: both condemning the obvious waste of money involved & fearing that they too might be designated as propagators of hatred ... for reasons that plainly defy all reason. The blame for this act of naked fascism was justly laid at Obama's feet, plainly yet another step in his evil plot to demonize the Right - that the study itself had been begun by the Bush administration was of course a mere unfortunate coincidence of bad timing.

How strange - I seem to have just thrown up in my mouth a little.

jim said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bran deditems said...

People now a days don't think right. There are weird beliefs and are just wrong. It's like they were programmed wrong. I hope this stops.