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Good for her. I like people that think outside the box, and make you question authority. Especially when the authorities are so often very wrong.
Yeah, laugh all you want at us backward Okies but the young lady submitted her speech for review without the offending word and so got approval under false pretenses. What does a law professor have to say about that?She was trusted to speak at a function and with that trust there's the implication that she'd follow certain rules. She willingly disobeyed those rules and now expects there to be no consequences. Sounds like she's ready for her college career.
Anybody can be a hero. Just wait for that opportunity. It'll come. And, if it doesn't Well, then just make up something.
This reminds me of the 1955 movie "Mister Roberts" which I watched in the wee hours of this morning.
Rather like the NCAA and Joe Paterno, isn't it. Those wins, they don't count.
They are punishing her the only way they can. It's a good thing the only way at their disposal wasn't beheading, or they would do that.The punishment is out of line. See, this is what happens when you get all touchy about corporal punishment. Three good whacks on her ass would have been perfect, and then off she goes with her diploma. That would be fair and just.
Do others find it odd that, in order to discuss a story about a high school student in Oklahoma, Ann has to link to a British online paper? Perhaps it's just further proof that J-school has ruined American journalism. Heck (hell?), even an HL Mencken might have trouble finding a willing publisher among US papers today.
Frankly, if she wrote on her resume that she was valedictorian of her class and didn't get a degree because she said hell, I would see that as way better then having the degree. "H.R. department, "Call this one in for an interview." Let them keep it.
So much for the first amendment.
the young lady submitted her speech for review without the offending word and so got approval under false pretenses.No freedom of speech without Official Approval!
What a little piece of trash. If she wants to speak like a sailor's whore let her go to some union infested inter city school. Otherwise let our real schools keep their standards.
Everyone knows speech can be restricted in high school in all sorts of ways, and so I am always surprised when people mention it like this stuff hasn't happened for decades and decades. It's not new, and it isn't particularly shockingI'm not sure what kind of "hero" she is though. It's not like she was railing against tyranny. No one knew she was going to say hell and told her not to ahead of time. She just did it on the spur or the moment.She had her say and she doesn't get the diploma. Big wow. Hell, I can't even remember what I did with mine.
"The punishment is out of line. See, this is what happens when you get all touchy about corporal punishment. Three good whacks on her ass would have been perfect, and then off she goes with her diploma. That would be fair and just."My junior high basketball coach once decided to give us all swats for something (chewing gum, back-talking, I don't even remember). We lined up outside the locker room in terror, hearing the thwack, thwack sound as we went to our doom one by one. What we each found out after going in was that she was hitting the wall with her paddle. So the brave ones who went first, and the cowards who went last got their rewards.I remember the same coach telling some of the snottier girls, "If you think your shit don't stink, why don't you bag it and sell it?" Good Times. I received real swats in 3rd grade for talking in the lunch line once too often. Gee, that sounds almost unbelievable now, doesn't it?
She did something stupid and they over-reacted and then she over-reacted even more, causing them to dig in.No adults around, apparently. But then, there haven't been many adults In the US for many years. Lots of adolescents in suits, though, with nice creases.
Does this mean she won't actually graduate?If not, will she then sue?
How in Holy Hell is a martinet of an administrator allowed to deprive someone of a diploma, fully earned and of some putative value, in a snit of pique?
Outstanding on her part. She fulfilled the requirements of graduation, and has done so. They're just holding the paper hostage to her apology. Pogo, she did nothing stupid. The overreaction was on the school's part, pure and simple. She's the goddamn valedictorian. She earned that slot. She should be able to say whatever the hell she wants. The school should get the fuck out of the way, give her the paper and let her go.
But was she talking about hell hell or just hell?
Also, diplomas and Ph. D's are overrated.
"Pogo, she did nothing stupid."Sure she did; she violated a simple agreement to say what she promised she'd say. There are consequences, and she was well aware there would be, but withholding the diploma isn't right; that was also stupid.This isn't a speaking truth to power thing, it's speaking dumb to dumber.
I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take being young and honored, gawdammit!!!
"Do others find it odd that, in order to discuss a story about a high school student in Oklahoma, Ann has to link to a British online paper?""Stupid things Americans do" are popular in British online papers. I think part of it is a reciprocal of why Britain is popular here. They're just enough not like us to make it all interesting. Foreign, but in a language we understand.The valedictorian speech is a highly controlled thing. They put the lid down on it at my school in 1978 or 79 when the valedictorian said she was glad to finally be out of there. So the speeches have to be approved. No one *gets* to be valedictorian without being *very good* at following the rules. But you're probably smart enough to be constantly aware of how stupid a lot of them are, how arbitrary they are. And then they say you get to give a speech that you earned the right to give that's supposed to be about you, except you can't say what you want about you, it's got to be approved.Her little bit of rebellion was pretty darn mild.I'm not going to say that the school should give in, or that she should. But I think that she's right to refuse to be bullied into making an *insincere* apology. There are enough of those in the world. She's finally *free*, and it's good that she values her freedom, and probably has a sense of honor as well.
I hope her sense of honor doesn't keep her from starting college on time.Some hills aren't worth dying on.
FINE! I'll have my transcripts, Douche. And the yearbook with herself all over it including photos of time she said *whispers* hell. It's what she achieved there that counts, not what some banal functionary douchebag martinet there confers. Same with marriage. Whoever looks to the State for validation isn't doing it right.
She has unimpeachable principles or something. Hopefully, there is something more substantive to the dispute than is recorded here.
This, I think, may be apropos:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m57gzA2JCcM
I would have preferred "fuck you, your diploma isn't worth the paper it's printed on, you lazy unionized taxpayer-fucking pieces of shit!" but "go to hell" is a start.Seriously, if they're going to deny her a high school diploma (ROTFLMAO) then she should have fun with it.
Exactly what does "denying her a diploma" mean?If it is just the piece of paper, I guess that is one thing. Denying her her graduation record something else. I would think she could - and should - sue over that.A long time ago when I graduated from college a rumor went around that some students were objecting to the cost of renting a cap and gown for the occasion and were told that anyone not showing up for graduation, or showing up without cap and gown, would not receive a diploma, and I have always wondered about that.
"Rather like the NCAA and Joe Paterno, isn't it."Is there something about her being a part of a conspiracy to abet a serial child rapist, for over a decade, that I didn't read about?
She'll get the paper. She just needs to chicken these fucking fascists out. Really? Over the word, Hell? They can go fuck themselves.wv = frogod 77 = pete's avatar :D
That happened where I lived, a few years ago a student quoted Rage Against the Machine with profanities. The Principal went to the media to apologize with a letter to the editor, which was a better way of admonishing the graduating student without giving him the oppotunity to be the victim.
And I really would like to know. At the time I would have liked to join the rebellion, both because I did not have any money to spare, and the "cap and gown" were made of some kind of trashy plastic that I thought was thoroughly ridiculous to waste money on even if I had it to spare, but in the end we were all cowed, I think. At least I did not hear any moree about it.
It's not that big of a deal. Just wash her mouth out with soap, give her her papers, and then tell her to fuck off.
Running a public school is, for many, perhaps most, administrators a power trip. Education isn't the primary goal, control is.This has become even more true with NCLB and other purely bureaucratic methods of judging educational success.
" I received real swats in 3rd grade for talking in the lunch line once too often. Gee, that sounds almost unbelievable now, doesn't it?"Things have changed.It was the standard punishment in grade school to be swatted by the Principle with a big board made especially for it. I got it for throwing snow balls on the way to school.In 10th grade, I wrote a letter to the editor of the city paper which got published. It was critical of the school faculty. I still have it, and it holds up well, and unsurprisingly, I still think I was right. The swimming coach - who looked like the Sargent on Gomer Pyle - really didn't like it, and called me out about it in front of the whole swim class, and spanked me with a paddle in front of everyone for it. It was a great moment, and like this, entirely counter-productive. I ended up a hero, and he looked like a jerk. It's been all downhill for me ever since.
"Education isn't the primary goal, control is."And the results are as one might expect.
That principal is going to have a hell of a fall semester if Miss Nootbar has any friends left among the Red Devils of Prague High School. Revenge in a cow town is served hot in steaming piles of cow dung.Here's the latest update: "Apology: The 18-year-old issued an apology to her school and teachers on Wednesday, however, after hearing of numerous calls of harassment over the issue."
This girl has to graduate from high school - she worked for that. Is she being denied walking across the stage to get her diploma - or is she being denied the right to say she is a high school graduate?
If the punishment for her conduct was an over reaction, so was her reward for being over punished. It's probably way cooler to be, however transitory, a celebrity on the Today show than being a high school valedictorian. Too late now, but she should have taken the opportunity of the Today appearance to plug her scholarship fund for college.
Maybe she should have used a teleprompter...I understand that all kinds of bad things slip out when you don't use a teleprompter.
Little miss profanity knows she's scored points with her future college professors and the liberal establishment in general. Well Played - you brave, brave girl!
As ill-disposed as I am to school administrators, those bellicose functionaries whose jobs seem mainly to obstruct learning, I am even less fond of teenagers and how the boomer perpetual youth culture glorified even the most moronic and meaningless "protests" they invent.What she's done is make it increasingly likely that future valedictorians will not be permitted to speak, the authorities having no trust in their students, and the students wanting to put a thumb in their eye for spite.High school graduations are stupid rituals, benign enough to tolerate, until they become battlegrounds for idiots such as these.No one listens to those speeches, and rarely does anyone say anything worthwhile. So speak as if to friends soon gone, for they are, and don't pretend you have anything more important to say than 'goodbye'.
I would not be offended if your virtually adult kid or mine used the word "hell" like that. It is the absolute mildest of "bad words". I don't the problem. Profanity? It's not like she said "macaca" or something.
I'm not offended, but I'll bet the residents of Prague OK were. Population 2000. Local rules.
For Pete's sake, just look at the Prague Times Herald Facebook site."Lots of fun at the United Methodist Church!!!"
C'mon, who has their high school diploma hanging on the wall? BFD. As long as her transcripts say she graduated, she's good to go.
She said hell instead of heck? I'm shocked the world didnt end. So I guess they can keep her from walking across and getting her diploma after the speech, but holding something she already earned for this very minor transgression is stupid. And why in the world did she have to submit her speech for prior approval, anyway?
H-E-double-hockey-sticks is now a "bad word" again ??
"Yeah, laugh all you want at us backward Okies but the young lady submitted her speech for review without the offending word and so got approval under false pretenses. What does a law professor have to say about that?"Those three years where you succeeded well about average and earned your degree? Yeah, too bad. You said hell.
"A marvelous bird is the pelicanHis beak can hold more than his belly canhe'll hold enough in his beakto last him a week"and I had to stay after school in fifth grade longer than it would have taken to write an apology.
Well she is giving them Hell now! So to Hell with it, right? I mean what the Hell?Even General Butler felt it has so hot in Texas he would rent it out and live in Hell.As for what will happen to her, I sure as Hell don't know.The administration was stupid in overreacting. Geeze..
@TWM yes, but every new generation doesn't *know* that and so is perpetually surprised by the mediocrity and general insanity of bureaucracy.
At least the new Puritan obsession with "hell" will take Amerikans' minds off skinny-dipping. Sheesh!
Hell is a republican dog whistle.
Supposing, for a moment, that her lexical choices were universally offensive: How on earth does this disqualify her for the diploma she earned?Good GRIEF.It would be wrong for folks to get the wrong takeaway from this. This is an instance -- a merely publicly visible one but a tip of an iceberg -- of the arbitrary exercise of power that we see in public schools. It happens all the freakin' time -- administrators just MAKE CRAP UP ad hoc to keep students in line.And we trust these crazies to teach students civics? Rule of law? When they personify tyrannical despotism? I'm in earnest -- not just as a parent with experience, but as an observer of the experience of so many other parents and students, and the contempt some school systems seem to have for students. It can be insane.
And, after all this and the 4.0, she's going to Southwestern Oklahoma State University?
I was in high school in the seventies. People ran through crowds at lunch or football games completely naked in a very small rural town. Their graduation was never threatened. I can't remember, but I bet someone did it at graduation too. It happened all the time, but they didn't get all crazy and say "hell". You gotta know where to draw the line.
They ran nekkid in high school and then grew up and moved to California and bought houses with nothing down and voted for Mexifornia and massive public pensins and finally elected Obama.Lack of consequences. It'll kill ya, eventually.
"And, after all this and the 4.0, she's going to Southwestern Oklahoma State University?"Full scholarship money is what I'mk thinking.
I like this young lady. She's got moxie.I admire her for not caving in to the education bureaucracy's coercion.
Don't they punch school administrators anymore? For every action, there should be an equal reaction.
Rasqual at 9:16 hit the mark.This just a small seemingly inconsequential example of the people having lost their Independence, freedom, and liberty. My opinion and all others are irrelevant. If that happened in my community I would have 1st polled the school board on their take. Hopefully, the elected would be as outraged at this small mindless bureaucratic and fired him in a special meeting for demonstrable incompetence.Really people when did the people of this great nation lose their way and bow to the imagined power of small mindless twits.This is just a small example of how we willing give up our freedom everyday. School administrators should suffer at our irrational whims, not the other way around.1) I would advise my daughter to handle it as she sees fit. By this time in here life, my job as caretaker of her life is done. I anly listen and give advice if asked. I would support what ever she wanted. She doesnt need a H.S diploma for any reason I can think of.2) Hell, in the context she used the word is no worse than heck, that's from an objective standard.3) My understanding is she appropriated the phraseology from the Twilight movie series,. so she was speaking to her peers in the common language of the day, kind of an inside joke.4) This person (the superintendent) is most likely making 6 fiqures carries a PHd in education, The compensation is so high because his education and experience is so valuable because he can handle children and young adults. With all of that, this knee jerk reaction is the best this genius can come up with? I thought he is an absolute expert at dealing with young people?We must take small steps to get our govt back from these mindless simpletons
Pogo,Ana Rand said the same thing. "You can ignore reality but you can't ignore the CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY"Hence California going down the drain, in more ways than one.
"How the hell do I know [what career I want]. I’ve changed my mind so many times!"That's her offense, her transgression. They couldn't just roll their eyes and hope a better speech next year? That's how they treat valedictorians???I'd sue the f*#$ing blankets off their children.
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