July 30, 2012

"It is a racist statement and this man doesn't realize that the Palestinian economy cannot reach its potential because there is an Israeli occupation."

"This man" = Mitt Romney.

ADDED:  Word is that Romney wasn't just comparing Israel to the areas managed by the Palestinian Authority. He also compared the U.S. to Mexico and Chile to Ecuador — other examples of countries that are geographically close and have "wide income disparities." Romney was using ideas in the books "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond and "The Wealth and Poverty of Nations" by David Landes. Fine. Let's have the transcript!

72 comments:

Tom Spaulding said...

Palestine: Terrorizing Our Way To Reach Our Potential Since 1948.

edutcher said...

Any bets we hear the exact same line from Hatman?

And the reason "the Palestinian economy cannot reach its potential" is because the cutthroats running the Palestinian satrap are a pack of terrorists who think of nothing but destroying Israel.

If they devoted all that energy and money to making something of the land they have, there would be no problem.

Of course, there would also be no need for them.

Funny how that works out.

PS Nice to see the Romster making all the right enemies.

mikee said...

When one side in this argument sees a pile of stones, they build a house out of it; when the other side sees a pile of stones they pick them up and throw them at people.

Who is going to have the better economy, the stone-throwers, or those who use them as building materials?

Sorun said...

All you need to know about the Palestinian economy is that Yasir Arafat was a billionaire.

Joe said...

When one side sees fertile land, they work it and produce food. When the other side is given fertile land and the buildings, ready to be used, they burn them.

dbp said...

"their culture is part of what has allowed them to be more economically successful than the Palestinians"

Culture is obviously not the same thing as race.

The kind of culture that blames everyone but themselves for their own backwardness is the kind that will remain backward. Also, the kind of culture that cannot distinguish culture from race is unlikely to achieve much.

Michael K said...

"In the West Bank, Palestinians have only limited self-rule. Israel controls all border crossings in and out of the territory, and continues to restrict Palestinian trade and movement. Israel annexed east Jerusalem in 1967, but has invested much less heavily there than in Jewish west Jerusalem."

So the rule of law doesn't matter ? How are all those greenhouses in Gaza doing that the Israelis left behind when they left that area.

Oh.

And I recall Obama getting his panties in a twist when the Israelis invested in a disputed area.

rhhardin said...

Ruins are a tourist attraction.

Tom Spaulding said...

In Israel, Arab women vote and drive cars.

Occupiers!

Ken said...

this man doesn't realize that the Palestinian economy cannot reach its potential because there is an Israeli occupation

This is a crock of shit. The reason Palestinians cannot reach their economic potential is because they are entitled brats. After the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank, the Israelis left behind all sorts of goodies so that the Palestinians could jump start their economy.

The result? The Palestinians destroyed them because they were made by Israel. Not too surprisingly Palestine, a group of people defined by destruction instead of creation, cannot pull their heads out of their ass. What do you expect from a group of people that consistently voted Yasser Arafat as their leader.

Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.

Marshal said...

Cultural differences are not racist.

If you don't want to be occupied, don't invade your neighbors. And if you want them to leave don't shoot rockets into their country or blow up children in ice cream parlors and buses. It doesn't seem a hard principle to discern.

Ignore the lefties supporting your violence. No one sane cares about your accusations as long as you kill people as a political statement. Gandhi, Mandela, Arafat: which of these three is not like the others?

Tim said...

Joe said...

"When one side sees fertile land, they work it and produce food. When the other side is given fertile land and the buildings, ready to be used, they burn them."

Who does not recall the self-defeating looting and destruction of the Gaza Strip once the Israelis pulled out?

It is reminiscent of supermarkets that were looted and torched during the Watts Riots - and then the residents of Watts complained when there were no more supermarkets they could shop at.

As if the job of the supermarkets is to invest in communities that, at the slightest provocation, will loot and torch their investments.

Palestinians want economic development?

Let them build a civil society that isn't predicated on the absolute abolishment of Israel and its perpetual state of war against Israel - and maybe, just maybe - they'll be able to build an economy.

But not until then.

Tibore said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tibore said...

"It is a racist statement and this man doesn't realize that the Palestinian economy cannot reach its potential because there is an Israeli occupation."

Yet, when Israel decamped Gaza, who destroyed what infrastructure was left behind? Wasn't the Israelis.

No, before anyone overextends my point, it wasn't all of the Palestinian's either. However, my point is that none of the ones rampantly destroying property were Israeli. And of the ones who remained: The Palestinian Authority basically did jack to stop them.

The PA "senior aide" quoted in the article would do well to look at home for problems to critique and fix. And I mean honestly look at home, not look at it through the "Jews = Enemy" glasses all the damn time. I mean look at it But then, they wouldn't be the PA if they didn't continually lean on that schtick.

The Godfather said...

Another Romney gaffe. I'm afraid that blows his chance of winning the Palestinian vote in November.

And he's apparently not even going to win the Jewish vote, either.

Michael K said...

"Palestinians want economic development?

Let them build a civil society that isn't predicated on the absolute abolishment of Israel and its perpetual state of war against Israel - and maybe, just maybe - they'll be able to build an economy."

Dennis Ross, who was Clinton's negotiator in 2000 (and who is sitting out the 2012 election) has written that there were investors with millions of dollars waiting to invest in the West Bank when Arafat walked away from that settlement.

I have friends who are Palestinian living in the US. They do very well, much like Jews with whom they share genes. The difference is that they are here, not in the Palestinian territories run by Hamas. Also they are Christian.

Two good indicators for success.

The Drill SGT said...

The "Palestians" that come to the US do well. The ones that go to other Arab countries pretty much keep them functioning. The ones under PA or Hamas disfunctional control? nt so much. The UN is to blame in a great part. There is a whole UN system that keeps them in camps, so they can be dependent and politicized. Roughly the same number of Arabs fled Israel in 48 to Jordan and Gaza as there were Jewish refugees, forced out of Muslim lands from 48 to 78. Those jewish refugees now are completely integrated and far wealthier than they were in Iran or Egypt.

interesting the comparison

Jake Diamond said...

"Some Americans shouldn't leave the country."

Sam L. said...

I see the PA and Hamas kleptocracies were left unmentioned.

Revenant said...

Yeah, if it wasn't for the Israeli occupation they could be as successful as Syria (GDP $4800 per capita).

Beta Rube said...

Sorun is correct. The biggest winner of Palestinian economic development was Yassir Arafat and his foreign bank accounts. Has anything changed with the current leadership?

Doubt it.

TWM said...

Some cultures are simply better than others. This is not racist nor it is news.

As to Romney, if he's pissing off the Palestinians, he's doing the right thing.

Brent said...

I am an evangelical Christian.
Romney doesn't need the Jewish vote. He doesn't need the Palestinian vote. He doesn't need one anti-semitic vote to be elected to the Presidency. All of those groups can vote their short-sightedness and poor judgment, and most probably will.


But if just 3.6% of the 13% of evangelical voters that stayed home and didn't vote for McCain in 2008 turn out this time for Romney, the race is over in the popular vote. It matters that much.

I had already decided to support Romney, but yesterday nine more evangelicals I know went from tepid to fervent supporters. Literally, just after reading about Romney's speeches. 4 of them immediately donated to Romney's campaign using my family room computer.

That's the story that will be missed early by the media, and deeply misreported and misunderstood when it is discovered by the media.

It won't matter. As long as Mitt keeps the stance

• pro-Israel,
• pro-life,
• on the Obama disaster of the last four years, AND
• avoids any unseemly revelations about himself (the DWI on Bush 5 days before the 2000 election cost him dearly)

the election is his to lose. Evangelical fervor is much more quiet and patient but far more deadly when aroused. We like it that way.

I'll be back here on this blog on the first post by Ann on the day after the election.

Too early to say I told you so? Probably, yeah.

Jim S. said...

My wife was always very aware of how much the media referred to Palin as "that woman" or "this woman" in the 2008 election cycle.

MrCharlie2 said...

$10K/head GDP in Palestine. Compare that to like $1K in Egypt. Does GDP include international transfer payments? How much of the $10K is attributable to trade with their occupier/1st world neighbor?

I wonder if Romney's whole trip is orchestrated to produce reactions like this: high-dudgeon from people Americans think are big jerks (Palestinian power brokers, English journalists ...)

Peter said...

So long as the Palestinian economy is primarily in the business of murder I fail to see why it's in anyone's interst that it should do well.

Unless you think it's in your interest to see more Jews murdered, of course.

The primary "product" produced in Gaza and the West Bank is terrorism. Until/unless that changes, why would anyone want it to flourish?

Cedarford said...

The statement that the Israelis have hindered the Palestinian economy at times is factually correct. The Israelis control West Bank movement of commerce by control of the roads and do impede flow of people and goods - quite deliberately impeding them at times. The Israelis also control electricity, water utilities. And the import-export flow.

But on the other hand, the Palestinians have gotten copius foreign aid and largely squandered it...the bulk of the money going to cronies and Solyndra-like schemes.
And you just have to look at how the Palestinians match up with other adjacent non-oil rich Arab lands nearby that are "free!" of Israeli meddling are doing - worse per capita than the Palestinians.

While some of the complaints about Israeli control are true....its like hearing District of Columbia black pols complaining that DC is "shackled" from deciding their own fate and running the city better by not having true Home Rule - but then you have to match DC up against other black-run cities "not under Congress's thumb". Which suggests DC would be more like Baltimore, Detroit, Compton...without Congress halting the worst corruption and incompetence of local pols...and Congress pouring more money per capita into blacks in DC than any other city in America.

Skipper said...

How does "that" man explain the failure of the bulk of the rest of the middle east?

William said...

The Palestinians are professional refugees. Although their standard of living is less than that of Israel it is higher than the neighboring Arab countries. They have embraced refugee as the core part of their identity. If tomorrow, as a good will gesture, every Israeli cut their throat and deeded their land to the Palestinians, the day after tomorrow the Palestinians would build a new Yemen. They would blame all those dead Jews for costructing highways and buildings that made it so difficult to restore the pastoral beauty of their previous life. Scholars claim that under the Ottoman Empire the Palestinians achieved a degree of happiness and contentment never seen before or since on earth.....Will any western or, for that matter, Israeli intellectual write about the plight of minority Palestinian Christians in Hamas ruled areas.

FleetUSA said...

The new way to disagree is to call any comment you don't like "racist".

What a limited vocabulary! Why can't they specifically explain why a statement is wrong?

Cedarford said...

Peter said...
So long as the Palestinian economy is primarily in the business of murder I fail to see why it's in anyone's interst that it should do well.
===============
With 5 million Palestinian people, only a few scattered incidents of terrorism, and a murder rate lower than in any black majority US city.....suggesting that the prime business of the Palestinians is "murder" is just gobbling up Zionist propaganda and brainlessly stating it as truth.

Or do you think all US blacks and their local economies are in the main business of murder and evil...because their murder rates greatly exceed Palestinian ones??

Lyle said...

Palestinians live a culture of failure supported and subsidized by the world political Left.

Too sad. Too sad.

bagoh20 said...

The quote from Klavin in the previous post is true here too, as the Israelis:

"find redemption in the harsh circumstances of their lives rather than allow those circumstances to mire them in resentment."

Poverty and occupation is in the Palestinian mind, and they use most of their substantial resources to preserve it, enshrine it, and pass it on to their offspring. That's why it never gets better, and has rested every effort to find peace.

Christopher in MA said...

"Some Americans shouldn't leave the country."

Conversely, some should be forcibly thrown out.

EDH said...

I believe "Palestinians" living in Isreal are doing better economically.

It's not about race, it's about governance.

The "Palestinian leaders" tearing a page from the Obama playbook.

Carnifex said...

Went to the link, saw it was an AP writer, and just didn't bother. I know what was going to be said just from seeing it was an AP story. And my blogmates comments prove my judgement correct. Nothing to see here...Move along. Move along.

cubanbob said...

The real point of comparison is Israel to Jordan, Jordan being now almost completely populated by Palestinians.
Not as terrible as a large part of the world but far less than Israel. Take out the oil wealth and the Arab Gulf States aren't all that much either. Culture matters.

Interestingly one can glimpse what a Palestinian state might be like if it didn't have it's present culture by observing Palestinians in the West. Quite a lot of them do very well in business and are starting to be part of the world of science and engineering.

Cedaford why don't you cry for the Kurds? Or is it that they are oppressed by Arabs, Persians and Turks who are not your special bogeyman?

Michael K said...

"(the DWI on Bush 5 days before the 2000 election cost him dearly)"

I agree and blame Rove unless Bush didn't tell him about it. That is hard to believe. Not impossible but hard to believe. Bush has been otherwise open about his drinking problem when he was young.

Lem said...

Haiti, the Dominican Republic...

Inductive reasoning.

Inductive reasoning, also known as induction, is a kind of reasoning that constructs or evaluates propositions that are abstractions of observations of individual instances.

Culture and religion is part of it.. but there is more to the disparity than the things Romney listed.

Spreading it over a wider context makes it worst in my opinion.

TMink said...

It is my opinion that a view or statement will be called racist when it gets too close to calling for personal responsibility from an agreived group that prefers to claim victim status over working to make things better.

This interaction just strengthens that opinion.

Trey

leslyn said...

It would be instructive to exclude factors that didn't exist at the time, like technology, and add in those that do now, like transportation (or the lack of it)--and compare the Holy Land's production and its people's work ethic of the 1930-40's to the piecemeal territory that Palestinians occupy today.

leslyn said...

TWM said,

"Some cultures are simply better than others."

Define "better."

Alex said...

leslyn - if you need to be explained then you'll never get it. It's staring you right in the face.

leslyn said...

No, Alex--it's not.

Economics
Government
Social values
Use of force
Technology
Sports
Art (of all sorts)
Military
Natural resources
etc etc etc
GDP
GNP
Debt

We tend to think that a country is "better" if it shares our ideas and or values about these factors.

Is Bhutan "better" than the U.S. because it measures its people's happiness quotient?

Is the US better than Australian because it has more military might?

Are Korea or Japan better than the US because they have better communications systems?

Is Tibet better than the US because it's people are more spiritual?

Is Saudi Arabia better than the US because it has more oil?

Is China better than the US because we are indebted to it?

Define "better."

Alex said...

leslyn - if you don't understand why Israel is flat out better then the Palis, you're a lost cause.

leslyn said...

Alex--

Define "better." If you won't, then you're avoiding a logical response.

Deflection = weenie.

Alex said...

leslyn - wow, just wow.

Ironclad said...

Palestine (and the other Arab countries) are both patriarchal and tribal at the fundamental political level. Those societies are always inward looking, attempting to maximize the gain of the family at the expense of all others. Also, since the eldest is considered the leader, the idea of advancing by merit is largely lost. (And where one in a family does advance, he is expected to stuff as many family as he can into his business, qualified or not)

This type of society is the worst for civic cooperation - since shared facilities are viewed with contempt. Israeli society in contrast is more open to cooperation and sharing, and as such has done better.

It's no wonder that the Palestinian leadership is scared. They see someone in Romney that may unplug their cash machine. But I guess that would be racist too.

leslyn said...

Alex--

nada, just nada.

On the other hand, Ironclad had an interesting argument. I think he means "better" economically, but one could look for shared values with the US in there as well.

Pookie Number 2 said...

Israel is better than 'Palestine' because in Israel:

Women and religious minorities aren't oppressed.

Gays aren't murdered.

Goverent tv doesn't advocate violence.

Its society promotes progress over victimization.

Alex said...

#1 - Israelis didn't celebrate 9/11/01.

Marshal said...

Palestinians teach their children their duty is to kill Jews and they should aspire to become suicide bombers, but leslyn isn't sure that's bad.

I'm not sure we need to add anything to that. Sometimes just letting the leftist write freely is enough.

creeley23 said...

I once spent a couple of weeks online arguing with liberal friends that they had more in common with George Bush than Osama Bin Laden.

No soap. They stuck with their guns that Bush was equally vile, equally opposed to democracy, freedom, and human rights as Bin Laden.

I have no idea what to do with that kind of willful ignorance.

I could be mistaken but it's hard for me to understand leslyn's current question as anything other than the same willful ignorance.

cubanbob said...

leslyn said...
It would be instructive to exclude factors that didn't exist at the time, like technology, and add in those that do now, like transportation (or the lack of it)--and compare the Holy Land's production and its people's work ethic of the 1930-40's to the piecemeal territory that Palestinians occupy today.

7/30/12 1:59 PM

Simply read Mark Twain's accounts of traveling in the Holy Land. That's your baseline. Notice the increase in Arabs in the Holy land paralleling the Jewish influx. See if you can connect the dots.

And yes indeed some cultures are better than others. A culture that has destroying another simply because its existence is anathema as its most fundamental reason for being is a without a doubt an inferior culture.

Revenant said...

It would be instructive to exclude factors that didn't exist at the time, like technology, and add in those that do now, like transportation (or the lack of it)--and compare the Holy Land's production and its people's work ethic of the 1930-40's to the piecemeal territory that Palestinians occupy today.

The capsule summary:

It was an underdeveloped backwater for pretty much all of recorded history. Once European Jews began moving into the area, buying land, and establishing settlements from the late 19th century onwards, the area became richer and immigration (Jewish and Arab) increased. Post 1948 the areas outside Israel declined again.

On a side note -- that next-to-last sentence is why it is amusing to hear it described as a "homeland" to most of the people living there. Look at census statistics from the 19th century onwards; the vast majority of people living in Israel/Palestine in 1948 were either immigrants themselves, or the children or grandchildren of immigrants.

n.n said...

Disparate impact. Unfortunately, the "Palestinians" were equally unsuccessful to improve their quality of life when they occupied the land for over 1000 years.

What doesn't kill the Jews makes them stronger. Apparently, that truism does not apply to every culture. Actually, the problem for Palestinians is their leaders. The same cause that depresses most African nations also depresses Middle Eastern nations. Their prevailing totalitarian ideology is an obstacle to escaping their static existence.

Joe said...

The examples of Palestinians who have done well in the west may illustrate part of the problem. The people who have self-drive, respect for others and want to succeed have largely left the Palestinian controlled areas (and Jordan.)

Comanche Voter said...

I saw a headline that said "World Leaders Outraged By Romney Statement"--or words to that effect. So I read the story and discovered the problem. The reporter had confused Mahmoud Abbas with a "world leader".

Mahmoud can yammer as much as he wishes---but he's basicallly a puffed up little man supported by the undeserved good will of liberals who should know better.

jr565 said...

Other tan terrorism and jew hating, what exports do Palestinians actually export. What industries are they creating?
Absent any real industry, why are we surprised that they aren't making it economically? And who's fault is that?
Where are the free market Palestinians talking about job creation? They have one track minds, "blame the jew" is pretty much all they have. And that's not a great basis for growing an economy.

jr565 said...

Leslyn why are you a liberal? DO you think your liberal values are better than conservative values? Why?

jr565 said...

Cedarford wrote;
With 5 million Palestinian people, only a few scattered incidents of terrorism, and a murder rate lower than in any black majority US city.....suggesting that the prime business of the Palestinians is "murder" is just gobbling up Zionist propaganda and brainlessly stating it as truth.

Well, what is the prime business of Palestinians? The one that they are supposedly building an economy on.

jr565 said...

Legal Insurrection posted this, but imagine if Romney instead posted this (to counterpoint the supposed racism of Romney's discussion versus say Obama's rhetoric):
You go into these small towns in the Palestinian Territories, and, like a lot of small towns in the Middle East, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through Rabin administration, and the Netanyahu administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-Israeli sentiment or anti-Jewish sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

What a difference a continent makes.

Ken said...

Leslyn,

Define "better."

An easy way to define better is: would you rather live in an Israeli controlled country or a Palestinian controlled country? Whichever you choose is better, pretty much by definition.

You want to be cute, that's fine, but not a whole lot of people are clamoring to get into Palestinian occupied territory. There's a reason for that.

cubanbob said...

jr565 said...
Legal Insurrection posted this, but imagine if Romney instead posted this (to counterpoint the supposed racism of Romney's discussion versus say Obama's rhetoric):
You go into these small towns in the Palestinian Territories, and, like a lot of small towns in the Middle East, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through Rabin administration, and the Netanyahu administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-Israeli sentiment or anti-Jewish sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

What a difference a continent makes.

7/30/12 6:32 PM

What a crock. The Israeli's are supposed to offer jobs to their enemies? Hmm lets take the Palestinian view: Jews, give us jobs and social benefits while we plan to kill you. The Israeli's did employ Palestinians up until the first intifada. After that, what for? They discovered that Asians can do the same work, do it as well or better and don't conspire to murder Israeli's.

jr565 said...

What a crock. The Israeli's are supposed to offer jobs to their enemies? Hmm lets take the Palestinian view: Jews, give us jobs and social benefits while we plan to kill you. The Israeli's did employ Palestinians up until the first intifada. After that, what for? They discovered that Asians can do the same work, do it as well or better and don't conspire to murder Israeli's.


I agree with the point, but he was just pointing out the hypocrisy with what Romney said (and is considere racist) versus what Obama said about this country. He just crossed out mid west, and changed it to middle east.

gk1 said...

Not much of a Romney "gaffe" when everyone knows its true, even the hyperventilating liberals trying to make hay over what was said. Israeli culture is clearly superior to its arab neighbors. The sun rises on the east, water is wet. "DUH" as Jeremy used to say.

chrisgadsden said...

Romney was observing that culture can trump (a lack of) natural resources - and political freedom (contra the conventional wisdom in "guns, butter and steel"). Lots of examples in history. Hong Kong, Singapore, India (under the Brits), Chile (Pinochet), vice all those who value egality (aka “social justice”) over maximizing human achievement. Where economic freedom largely trumps all, even when accommodating cleptocrats and dictatorships (of the proletariat and others).

And of course Milton Friedman gave example after example of how markets and free trade can advance the interests of the least-of-us even while their nations are adversaries. We need not agree or be great friends for trade to create win-wins. And now that the cost of shipping an incremental ton over water is near zero, we need not even be geographically close to form a trade union (that insures at least a commercial framework for the rule-of-contracts law – that generally leads to better individual rights as the respect for property leads to respect for an individual’s contribution).

Kirk Parker said...

Sorun,

"All you need to know about the Palestinian economy is that Yasir Arafat was a billionaire and that he lived to the fairly ripe age of 75, and likely died of natural causes".

I think that second part is almost as important as the first.

john martin said...

New Mexico has enacted some of the toughest Dwi laws in the country.

pst314 said...

"It was an underdeveloped backwater for pretty much all of recorded history. Once European Jews began moving into the area, buying land, and establishing settlements from the late 19th century onwards, the area became richer"

It was also a prosperous area before the Muslims invaded.

pst314 said...

Cedarford said 7/30/12 12:04 PM "With 5 million Palestinian people, only a few scattered incidents of terrorism...brainlessly gobbling up Zionist propaganda..."

If Israel were to do as you demand and relax its border security and tear down those "oppressive" walls, there would be a return to earlier, much higher numbers of terror attacks. Have you forgotten this? Or do you just not care?

And don't forget: The rocket and mortar attacks continue.

The Palestinians can have peace and prosperity. All they have to do is give up their obsession with killing Jews.

Methadras said...

Palestinian economy can't reach it's potential is because there is no Palestinian economy. What is their gdp? What do they produce besides death, suffering, and perpetual victimhood?