May 31, 2012

2 teachers and a busload of high school students vote — using early in-person absentee balloting — in the Walker recall election.

"A witness at the Milwaukee Municipal Building on Friday reported seeing about 30 students from Pulaski High School arrived at the polls around 10 am. About 10 or 11 of them used their class schedules to vote."
However, according to the Milwaukee Elections Commission and the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board, voters do not need to provide proof of age in order to register. All they have to do is check off a box on the registration form certifying that they are a qualified elector, a U.S. citizen and at least 18 years old by the time they vote.

"The whole system relies on the honestly and integrity of the individual," Sue Edmond, Milwaukee's Election Commission director, told the MacIver News Service. "If we find after the election that they lied, they could be charged with a felony."
The new voter ID law is not currently being enforced (because of the judgment of 2 Dane County judges). Interestingly, the new Marquette Law School poll, surveying likely voters in the recall election found that "61% percent favored requiring a government-issued photo id to vote, while 37 percent opposed that." People really do worry about voter fraud. Given the polls that show Walker leading — the Marquette poll has him 7 points ahead — if Barrett wins, people should be suspicious.

Here's Reince Priebus on the subject:
"I'm always concerned about voter fraud, you know, being from Kenosha, and quite frankly having lived through seeing some of it happen," Reince Priebus said. "Certainly in Milwaukee we have seen some of it, and I think it's been documented. Any notion that's not the case, it certainly is in Wisconsin. I'm always concerned about it, which is why I think we need to do a point or two better than where we think we need to be, to overcome it."...

Lester Pines, an attorney involved in a separate legal challenge to the voter ID law, also denounced Priebus' comments, saying they were baseless.

"His statement that Republicans need to outperform Democrats by one to two percent to account for vote fraud is an absolute, total, 100% lie," Pines said. "It is a fantasy. And Reince Priebus and his ilk are saying this and they're saying it over and over and over because they're using the well-known propaganda tool called 'the big lie.' If you say it enough times, people will believe it. There's no other way to characterize this except that Reince Priebus is a liar."
"The Big Lie" is indeed a well-known propaganda tool, but it is not simply something that's repeated a lot. "The Big Lie" refers to "colossal untruths" of the sort that ordinary people don't even think of telling, which they don't suspect because "they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously." I'm quoting Mein Kampf there. It's Adolph Hitler's term. Know it. Use it, but know what you're saying when you use it and only use it when you mean it, Mr. Pines. Don't make casual, vague allusions to Hitler. It's not right.

107 comments:

James said...

I get my hair cut at a barber shop in Kenosha. I know for a fact that several of the barbers who live across the state line in Illinois voted in Wisconsin in 2008.

James said...

BTW, I just had an encounter with two We Are Wisconsin canvassers; it didn't go well for them.

ndspinelli said...

I bet the teacher told them they were going to the zoo.

Synova said...

It's not a bad idea for high school students who are 18 to get a ride to the polls during the school day.

It's not necessary either. The polls are open after school.

People think that it's so important for young people to vote for the sake of voting. I don't know that I agree. I was excited to vote the first time when I was 18. My kids seem to be intimidated by it. They (rightly) feel like they don't understand the issues or know who they'd prefer to vote for. I think that's taking it seriously, and a good thing.

machine said...

I get my socialized medicine in Canada and I know for a fact the evil doctors that practice medicine there are going to enter Michigan and vote for Mitt Ronmey, the next Presidente of Amercia.

Scott said...

Lester Pines is beyond reprehensible. The "big lie" is that voter ID laws and the elimination of same-day voter registration will somehow violate the civil rights of black people. It is an obvious, massive, whopping lie because Pines and his ilk can never explain WHY it is so. Why does nobody call bullshit on people like Pines?

RonF said...

"His statement that Republicans need to outperform Democrats by one to two percent to account for vote fraud is an absolute, total, 100% lie, ..."

True. I'd say at least 3%, myself.

RonF said...

So the school is rounding up kids and taking them to go vote, eh? Supervised by teachers?

The Boy Scouts used to run "Get Out The Vote" campaigns. They don't do so anymore. Why? Because of accusations that a given unit's leadership or sponsor would know full well that their area was Democratic or Republican and that it was therefore acting in a partisan fashion. How much anti-Walker commentary have these kids been hearing from their teachers? And then the teachers troop them to the polls to make sure that they get the end result. Schools should not be at all involved in such a process.

Tom Spaulding said...

"The whole system relies on the honestly and integrity of the individual,"

...she said un-ironically, even though no Democrats are in favor of proving one's honesty and integrity - upon which the whole system relies - via Voter I.D. laws.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

Apply Occam's Razor to voter ID laws.

The Democrats near universal opposition to voter ID laws, often vehemently, succinctly demonstrates that voter fraud is a legitimate issue, I think.

traditionalguy said...

The Big Lies packaged as "Science" just keep on rolling out.

That sugar in soft drinks is a danger is today's New Whopper.

That a beneficial trace gas that causes ZERO warming is a Pollutant of the atmosphere was the last whopper.

Second hand smoke causing diseaes is an older Whopper.

John Edwards pioneered these Science Whoppers in his "fetal distress mandates caesarians" science which was the Whopper that built his fortune.

And today the studies are showing that the caesarian babies are the ones who tend to early obesity. Drinking Cokes has nothing to do with that.


The Big Lie Industry is flourishing today in Academic venues like some sort of a sport that gives awards to the smoothest Big Liars.

leslyn said...

A tag to this post is "using children in politics." If the students were under 18, you are right. If they are 18 or over, then they can go on the bus to vote if they damn well please.

alan markus said...

Schools should not be at all involved in such a process.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if those kids would ask the teacher for $$$ (about $100)in lieu of going to the proper authorities and saying that they were told by same teacher to vote for Barrett?

Of course, they would be well advised to wait until after final grades are issued.

chickelit said...

Garage Mahal assured us that voter fraud was a complete myth in Wisconsin.

Rocketeer said...

Make it $100 + an "A", then.

Seven Machos said...

And thus does Les hit on the issue -- age -- so smugly and without a scintilla of self-awareness.

Curious George said...

"James said...
BTW, I just had an encounter with two We Are Wisconsin canvassers; it didn't go well for them."

We had a bunch of WorkingAmerica hippies canvassing my neighborhood. Five of them popped out a mini-van with Colorado plates and headed in different directions. They avoided my house and others on my block that had Walker signage. The van had a precinct map of Milwaukee County and a Working America manual on the dash. Working America is part of the AFL-CIO. Local grass roots effort my ass. A quick visit to the Working America website shows they think Milwaukee County is key to a Barrett victory.

Good fucking luck.

Cedarford said...

leslyn said...
A tag to this post is "using children in politics." If the students were under 18, you are right. If they are 18 or over, then they can go on the bus to vote if they damn well please.

--------------
That sort of depends...doesn't it? What if it is teachers union activists getting all the 18+ students and telling them if they Truly CARE and FEEEEEEL for the terrible injustices that Walker is inflicting on Teacher-Heroes and other union heroes..they will sign up on a list and show up for the bus that will take them to vote properly...

And, errrr, civic involvement is a component in factoring final grades...and all the Final tests and essays have to be done shortly and grades submitted.

Wally Kalbacken said...

Agreed. Lester Pines is a one note sonata.

Amartel said...

"Garage Mahal assured us that voter fraud was a complete myth in Wisconsin."

Garage Mahal was driving the school bus.

Seeing Red said...

--A tag to this post is "using children in politics." If the students were under 18, you are right. If they are 18 or over, then they can go on the bus to vote if they damn well please.---


They left school. What if the bus was in an accident? What happens then? Do HS's only get permission slips for under-age students?

Do these kids get extra credit? A free pass? They get something under-age students don't get?

This isn't fair.

edutcher said...

Last I looked, the Demos practice vote fraud more than Republicans by a wide margin, so how could Rinse (or however you say his name) ever assume such a thing would happen in WI?

machine said...

I get my socialized medicine in Canada and I know for a fact the evil doctors that practice medicine there are going to enter Michigan and vote for Mitt Ronmey, the next Presidente of Amercia.

Yes, because the Canucks have come to hate their socialized medicine and they want to be able to come here and get good medical treatment.

chickelit said...

leslyn said...
A tag to this post is "using children in politics." If the students were under 18, you are right. If they are 18 or over, then they can go on the bus to vote if they damn well please.

When I was passing through the wonderful Wisconsin public school system, only about half of us turned 18 while still in HS. I wonder if the average age of HS seniors has changed over time.

leslyn said...

"Isn't fair"?? What are you, twelve?

Michael K said...

It would be a nice sting operation for Fox News or the Breitbart folks to video the kids voting and then interview them and ask their age.

Seven Machos said...

Do these kids get extra credit? A free pass? They get something under-age students don't get?

There is no law against giving people money to vote (at least in my jurisdiction) and there is no way the teacher could know who the students actually voted for.

Campaigns are ugly. The issue here isn't what the teacher is doing. The issue is the potential for fraud because identification for voting is not currently necessary and because -- apparently, unbelievably -- there is no background check of even a cursory kind when people register to vote.

If there's a bus accident, it will be sad. But so what? Should we all live in bunkers and never leave?

machine said...

I get my pipes cleaned in Minnesota and I know for a fact that unlicensed plumbers are crossing over in La Crosse to vote for Mitt Ronmey, the next Presidente of Amercia.

Seven Machos said...

"Isn't fair"?? What are you, twelve?

Says our sad, loveable idiot Les, who most assuredly whined and ululated about fairness when Walker pushed his heroic reforms through the statehouse.

Les: if you ever, ever come here and discuss fairness in the future, I will pillory you ruthlessly and shamelessly. You are an unprincipled moron of the worst kind. Your existence is a blight.

Hagar said...

What if Mayor Barrett provided City buses to bus City workers to the polls?

Jackson said...

Lester Pines is a brilliant lawyer, Scott Walker was unwise to fire him. Preibus and Walker are habitual and serial liars, or they are both grossly misinformed with the most basic inner workings of the electoral system in Wisconsin, rendering both unfit to serve any public office. It's just disgraceful for them to push a knowable lie to the people of Wisconsin the way they do.

That said, this all points to a tightening election if they pulling out this boogeyman. But slandering the state you govern for political purposes and damaging the integrity of the process has no place in a civil society.

Chip Ahoy said...

I get all my bullshit ideas from machine and I know for a fact that thousands of bats come flying out of his ass and cross the lines of sanity right before the polls close to vote in Wisconsin.

Seven Machos said...

What if Mayor Barrett provided City buses to bus City workers to the polls?

That would probably be a campaign finance violation, and I am guessing it would be a due process violation under the Wisconsin Constitution. But I am no expert on Wisconsin electoral law, and it's not going to happen so it doesn't matter.

Hagar said...

Then so is the public school system's providing school buses to bus students to the polls.

MadisonMan said...

Certainly in Milwaukee we have seen some of it, and I think it's been documented

Well then one should be able to produce that kind of documentation.

Seeing Red said...

--"Isn't fair"?? What are you, twelve?---



Don't you listen to Obama? It's all about fairness.

Hagar said...

and id did happen.

MadisonMan said...

This does sound like an interesting activity, however. I would have liked to have done this as a high-schooler (although I didn't turn 18 'til I was in college, but only 1/3rd of the students actually voted, which sounds about right).

Seeing Red said...

--If there's a bus accident, it will be sad. But so what? Should we all live in bunkers and never leave?--


I send my child to school. Unless I give permission, I expect my child to be in school unless notified of special trips.

This is the question, do they treat legal age differently than underage students?

This opens up a whole new ball of wax.

If that bus was in an accident, the school's out is the kid is legal.

Whose ultimate responsibility is it?

The teacher & school's or my kid or me?

damikesc said...

Lester Pines is beyond reprehensible. The "big lie" is that voter ID laws and the elimination of same-day voter registration will somehow violate the civil rights of black people. It is an obvious, massive, whopping lie because Pines and his ilk can never explain WHY it is so. Why does nobody call bullshit on people like Pines?

Because Pines feels black people are mentally challenged children. As do most Progressives. It's the only rational explanation for their vehement hatred of photo ID requirements for voting. Saying it's "too hard" to get a photo ID is like saying "It's too hard" to wipe one's butt appropriately.

A tag to this post is "using children in politics." If the students were under 18, you are right. If they are 18 or over, then they can go on the bus to vote if they damn well please.

If we had photo ID requirements, it'd be known what age they are. Instead, we have to rely on the word of high school seniors and no group is more honest and less likely to lie than they...apparently.

It's just disgraceful for them to push a knowable lie to the people of Wisconsin the way they do.

So, you don't trust somebody to give their actual age to buy beer --- but to vote? Sure, no problem. If I claim to be you in order to access your bank account, would you be upset about that? Because, if you're consistent, you wouldn't be. Because expecting somebody to have photo ID is evil or something.

Chip S. said...

Putting aside the questions about fraudulent voting, what about the educational fraud? Today's social studies lesson involves wasting half a day on a bus ride to and from the Municipal Building?

Wow! Look! There's the Recorder of Deeds!

It seems like a reasonable expectation of a voter that he be able to find the Municipal Building all by himself.

Seeing Red said...

What other field trip or activities could the school justify because the kid is legal?

I know, let's take em to Windsor and the girlie bars for sex ed!

machine said...

I get my all my crystals turned into meth at the general store in Butte, Montana and I know for a fact that that unwashed meth cooks are crossing over the Porcupine Mountains to vote for Mitt Ronmey, the next Presidente of Amercia.

Fact.

Seeing Red said...

As long as the kid is 18, it's ok if the HS student and HS teacher are boffing. It's no one's business except the families'.

Tom Spaulding said...

Wanna guess what's "sacred" about the Vote?

Knowing that yours and mine count as one vote, each.

Only one. Each. Ever. Provable. Documented.

Sacred.

James said...

@CuriousGeorge

A fairly young woman and a slightly older man came my door. The woman did all the talking; she had a slight accent that reminded me of when I lived in Southern Indiana. I'm fairly certain she isn't from Wisconsin.

Since there aren't any other black families in my subdivision they look taken aback when I answered the door.

The conversation went like this:
Woman: Hi, we're with We Are Wisconsin. Do you know about the recall of Scott Walker?
Me: I can't help knowing about it ...its been in the news every day since last February.
Woman: What do you think about Scott Walker?
Me: I think he didn't go far enough
Woman: (mumbles something about voting)
Me: I already voted for Walker by absentee ballot.
Woman: Oh, okay. What's your name so we can cross you off our list?

Synova said...

As for the "big lie" that voter fraud is a problem... well, it is, isn't it, if one fussed about Florida in 2000?

If fraud is important or not, what is important, vitally, fundamentally, important, is voter confidence in the system. This is a case where the truth doesn't matter nearly so much as the perception. Do voters trust the system? And if they don't trust the system, what can be done to increase confidence?

And, really, who's been trashing confidence in the system? Republicans fuss about installing some simple checks on potential voter fraud. We're Americans, we like our folk-myths about dead voters and political shenanigans, but only as colorful stories about the past. In the here and now we'd prefer to think that everyone involved takes fraud seriously and is willing to work together to ensure the fidelity of the polls and the appearance of fidelity at the polls.

We'd also like those aspiring to high office to prefer the good of the republic over their own ambitions and concede graciously instead of destroying that public trust.

Tom Spaulding said...

What other field trip or activities could the school justify because the kid is legal?

DNC Democracy in Action meeting at TIlted Kilt?

leslyn said...

Cedarford said...
leslyn said...
A tag to this post is "using children in politics." If the students were under 18, you are right. If they are 18 or over, then they can go on the bus to vote if they damn well please.

--------------
That sort of depends...doesn't it? What if it is teachers union activists getting all the 18+ students and telling them if they Truly CARE and FEEEEEEL for the terrible injustices that Walker is inflicting on Teacher-Heroes and other union heroes..they will sign up on a list and show up for the bus that will take them to vote properly...

And, errrr, civic involvement is a component in factoring final grades...and all the Final tests and essays have to be done shortly and grades submitted.

What if, what if. From what we may actually know from the information given, about 30 students showed up. That's about 15% of the senior graduating class.

If that somehow shows a conspiracy to coerce students, or for students to en masse elevate their grades, it's eluding me. We don't even know how they voted--and they don't have to tell us.

I don't see the evil here.

Rocketeer said...

"Isn't fair"?? What are you, twelve?

Rich, coming from a recall supporter. Tell me why WI is going through this whole exercise, again?

Steve Koch said...

Seven Machos:
"The issue here isn't what the teacher is doing."

Why not? It isn't the job of public schools to take students to vote. Citizens don't pay taxes to buy school buses to take students to vote. Teachers are not paid to take students to vote.

Dem activist teachers are doing this to extend the dem get out the vote program and get the public to pay for it. High school students, being young and ignorant, tend to vote dem. Dem pols realize this and work hard to get out the teenage vote. Using public school resources to aid the dem get out the vote effort is morally wrong, probably illegal, and should be vigorously fought by the GOP.

MadisonMan said...

This is the question, do they treat legal age differently than underage students?

Seniors (or juniors) who are 18 can sign out of school if they wish -- but I *think* the parent has to allow that to happen. That is, parents have to sign a form that says student is now responsible for their own comings/goings. I don't think it automatically happens when the kid turns 18, at least here in Madison.

Our first kid didn't turn 18 'til after school got out. Second kid turns 18 during Senior Year, so he'll be 'legal' when he's going crazy with senioritis. Wish me luck :)

machine said...

I get all my crabs removed in Stumpy Point and I know for a fact that there are pretend republican journalists crossing over the Virginia border posing as dead men in order to vote for Mitt Ronmey, the next Presidente of Amercia.

traditionalguy said...

In Wisconsin an election worker needs to try offering them a beer, but add in standard disclaimers requiring permission from parents or an ID proving age, unless it is an abortion and then all rules are not applicable.

Tom Spaulding said...

It isn't the job of public schools to take students to vote. Citizens don't pay taxes to buy school buses to take students to vote. Teachers are not paid to take students to vote.

"No one commits voter fraud on their own!" - Liz Warren, Proud Lactating Law Prof Indian

AllieOop said...

Machine, those damn sneaky Canadians, we need to employ the Bush Doctrine immediately!

Hagar said...

Leslyn,
"The evil here" is that the public school system provided free (though at least slightly coerced) transportation to the polls for potential voters in an election that the public school managers are vitally interested in.

This not much different from the mayor rounding up city employees at the City Hall and City Yards and busing them to the polls in City buses.

AllieOop said...

And that goes for the rest of those rascally varmints, trying to defraud our voting system!

LarsPorsena said...

"The whole system relies on the honestly and integrity of the individual," ..

So does our system of taxation. I can't understand why we need the IRS.

walter said...

"It isn't the job of public schools to take students to vote. Citizens don't pay taxes to buy school buses to take students to vote. Teachers are not paid to take students to vote. "

+100

machine said...

With its increasing fealty to an older-white-male-Southern base, the GOP has moved itself toward structural-minority status...therefore, it creates voter-fraud boogie-men to combat, purges the voter rolls of undesirables (Non-republicans)whether or not they are legally registered to vote, and of course, pass legislation merely to weaken political opponents.

Can't grow your party, so you must reduce the other...

How proud you must be...

Big Mike said...

@RonF, that close to Chicago? Make it 5%, absolute minimum.

Tom Spaulding said...

How proud you must be...

How scared you obviously are...

chickelit said...

machine wrote:

Can't grow your party, so you must reduce the other...

Just what sort of a device are you machine? A projector?

walter said...

Machine's right. When you have a failing educational system indoctrinating young minds into liberalism paired with so many dependent on the dole, it truly is hard to persuade them by mere responsibility and an attempt to prevent the country going over the fiscal cliff.

Steve Koch said...

machine said...
"With its increasing fealty to an older-white-male-Southern base, the GOP has moved itself toward structural-minority status...therefore, it creates voter-fraud boogie-men to combat, purges the voter rolls of undesirables (Non-republicans)whether or not they are legally registered to vote, and of course, pass legislation merely to weaken political opponents.

Can't grow your party, so you must reduce the other...

How proud you must be..."

Nice try, widen the discussion when you can't win the discussion based on facts.

The overwhelming majority of Americans (i.e. those that are not dem hacktivists) are concerned about voter fraud, want to protect the integrity of the voting process, and are willing to take at least minimal precautions to prevent voter fraud.

The fact that dems are so rabidly against any effort to protect the integrity of the voting process lets you know that cheating in elections is an important tool for dems to steal close elections.

Synova said...

Democrats and liberals don't seem to trust the voting system either, not one bit. So I'm wondering what they propose to try to make it more reliable and trustworthy? What have they suggested that the Republicans have shot down?

Or maybe, what is really desired is deniability? When things don't go the way they want they can just announce that it's all bogus anyway, not to be trusted, the Republican didn't really win?

I don't quite understand... making sure that the voter rolls are up to date and accurate is a good thing, isn't it? And if there is a problem with people being struck unfairly because they've got the same name and SSN as a convicted felon, well then, there is room for oversight and making sure that people aren't unjustly removed.

Like active duty military.

machine said...

Uh-Oh:

Census data shows that for the first time in American history the number of white babies born was exceeded by the number of babies born to non-white minorities...

Census Fraud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jackson said...

The 2-3% bandied about by Walker and Preibus equals 30,000 to 60,000 fraudulent votes. It's preposterous on it's face and charlatans like these two have no business governing anybody, or any body.

walter said...

Machine with the potent comeback. I get teh sense he feels that minorities inherently equals Democrats. Just like he feels only Southern white males vote Republican. And I bet machine claims to be against stereotypes.

CWJ said...

what ronf said @2:21.

This stinks to high heaven. Even if you buy the notion that this somehow was a valid civics lesson, why did they need to vote in person absentee as well as register. What's the rush? Isn't part of the lesson learning when the polls are open and exercising your right and obligation then? No this looks like let's get the little ones registered and make sure they vote with their teachers present.

Even if somehow it was 100% on the up and up, the optics on this are just terrible.

Seven Machos said...

the GOP has moved itself toward structural-minority status

Structural minority status has been descending upon the Republicans for 50 years, but always lands on the Democrats.

But keep on believing, Machine. Whatever gets you through your glum days. Whatever makes your sad life worth living as Walker wins the recall election, Obama loses, and Republicans make further gains in the House and state legislatures.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Certain Democrats have been waiting for demographic change to drop unearned victory into their laps in the same way their grandfathers used to count on the dialectical forces of historical necessity. Sadly, the biggest demographic trend these days is the graying, not the browning, of the population. Plus, out of their whole motley collection of ethnic blocs, Imaginary-Americans are the only ones who actually turn out to vote.

Synova said...

"What's the rush?"

My kids had their last day of school last Tuesday.

Synova said...

"Uh-Oh:

Census data shows that for the first time in American history the number of white babies born was exceeded by the number of babies born to non-white minorities...
"

Uh-Oh, indeed!

What will the Democrats do when the "oppressed minorities" aren't minorities any more?

The mind boggles.

Good thing that Republicans (and everyone else other than Democrats) are about ideas instead of group identity, huh.

poppa india said...

We don't have compulsory voting in this country. Why should these students be put in a spot where they might feel compelled to vote? They could feel their grades might depend on going along with the school's "everyone should vote program". We wouldn't accept such pressure from a private employer.

Scott said...

Who paid for the bus? The schoold district? The state of Wisconsin?

Jay said...

Blogger machine said...

With its increasing fealty to an older-white-male-Southern base, the GOP has moved itself toward structural-minority status...


What a great explanation of the 2010 election!

I mean, a historic Republican wave which resulted in hundreds of new state legislative seats = structural minority!!

Idiot.

harrogate said...

Althouse logic is fun logic. When Palin used the term "Blood Libel" to cast herself as a victim, it was no biggie. But this--THIS--is unconscionable!!!!

Seven Machos said...

So, for Harro, when some celebrity politician plucked from obscurity and now fading back into obscurity says something Harro doesn't like, it's bad. Awful. The worst thing imaginable.

But when there is vote fraud, or a set of laws and institutions that allow and encourage vote fraud, in a state where vote fraud has been undeniably a problem, no problem.

You are a fascist, dude. Just admit it.

walter said...

Harro,
If you are trying to make a point with it, mind giving us a time location in that 47 minute piece you linked to? Or give a hint how blood libel relates to schools engaging in bus out the vote?

harrogate said...

"So, for Harro, when some celebrity politician plucked from obscurity and now fading back into obscurity says something Harro doesn't like, it's bad. Awful. The worst thing imaginable."

Where did I say that it was a problem at all?

Its the AA funhouse logic that I find, in this case, *interesting*. Observe the blase, how-could-they-possibly-be-botheredd attitude she strikes, in relaion to the Blood Libel invocation. Compare that to the high moral italics at the end of the post, the OMG ITS NOT RIGHT that this official would invoke Hitler in this "vague" way.

Horrors of the museum.

harrogate said...

"Don't make casual, vague allusions to Hitler. It's not right."

haha

Henry said...

The other thing that people forget is that Hitler didn't claim to use the Big Lie. Like Pines, he accused others of using it.

harrogate said...

Henry, that's true.

Seven Machos said...

Harro -- Nobody cares when somebody uses the phrase blood libel. And if they do, they can go fuck themselves and you can go fuck yourself if you care, because it's a free country and free speech, particularly political speech, is absolutely protected.

Vote fraud is a real, serious problem which disenfranchises legitimate voters, robbing them of their constitutional rights, and which subverts our entire set of political institutions.

It is simply asinine for you to make this stupid, pointless comparison, but it is emblematic of loser thought. Your side is going to lose next week. It may get crushed. Whatever the case, your whole set of short-term political goals is a lost cause.

So, what do you do? You bring up Sarah Palin. Sarah Fucking Palin. And some remark Althouse about an remark Palin made, none of which had anything to do with anything. Really, dude? Really?

You embarrass yourself. It's pitiful.

walter said...

""The Pulaski principal tells us that the field trip not been done previously,"

Ah...so..some teachers decided there was something special about this "election".

And I'm sure in discussing the uniqueness of a recall, they explored how it came about with zero conflict of interest.
And wearing Barrett buttons on the way to the polls was simply providing examples of traditional political expression.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Walter, click on the link under the Bloggingheads video box that reads "Is Palin's 'blood libel' much ado about nothing?" You will hear Glenn Loury and Ann Althouse joining forces in an excellent explanation of why Palin's use of the phrase "blood libel" was unexceptionable-- and, therefore, of why harrogate is full of shit.

harrogate said...

Seven, you're all vitriol, but no content here. I really think you are missing the point of my comment. Either that or intentionally shwarping it for some reason.

1)I did not weigh in on the charges of vote fraud element of the post, one way or the other.


2)I don't care about Palin. I certainly do not, nor have I ever, harbored her any ill will.

Indeed, What I've seen you write about her in the past, actually, sums up my own views on her pretty well.


3)But--and here's what my comment was very clearly about, dude--

Ann's affect of moral opposition to the invocation of Hitler, in this case, reminded me of how silly people were when they lost their minds over Palin crying Blood Libel. And then I remembered that Ann also thought it was silly then. The two put together says a lot about how seriously one can take the "It's not right" declaration.

Seven Machos said...

I don't care about Palin.

Except to bring Palin's name up in a conversation about voter fraud in 2012 in a governor's race in Wisconsin. Except that. Other than that, Palin iss the furthest thing from your mind.

Got it, chief. What would make anyone think that you care about Palin?

harrogate said...

Seven, I think you are being unfair to Ann, insisting that commenters only talk about the issue of vote fraud, in this thread. She devoted a whole paragraph to the propriety of invoking Hitler.

(Psssstt. I think it's because she finds it interrrrresssssstingggg)

Seven Machos said...

Harro -- Then talk about invoking the Big Lie. Perhaps you can relate it to Sarah Palin somehow, a person you don't care about, so much so that you brought her up in this post for no discernible reason whatsoever.

It's always a twisted form of sour grapes with the left...

What? There's leftist voter fraud in Wisconsin and Walker is going to win big? Well, Sarah Palin! Sarah Palin!

At least Garage has had the noble sense to disappear.

harrogate said...

The point is, let's NOT get all into a tizzy because Pines talked about the Big Lie. Let's not cry "It isn't right", as though our scruples are inflamed.

I mean, c'mon. We've already established that such things are no big deal. Haven't we?

Let's not affect some sort of moral stance about such things, now. I mean, why would we get all worked up about it in THIS context? (or in the context of someone saying something critical of a banker. THAT's also "not right". but anyway....)

Surely the strong pro-Walker stance has nothing to do with the sudden moral-rhetorical turn?

Seven Machos said...

The only person in a tizzy here is me.

harrogate said...

I don't know if you are in a tizzy, Seven, but you are certainly making a lot of shit up here.

cubanbob said...

Machine needs to get a truckload of WD 40 to get his geared unstuck from stupid. Harro, what will be your excuse when Walker wins and Obama loses?

MadisonMan said...

My kids had their last day of school last Tuesday.

Sigh. I wish it were that way here. Sadly, a decade+ ago the Dells convinced the Republican state Legislature that they HAD to have kids to work through Labor Day. So the State Mandated a post-Labor Day start. Now all the workers at the Dells come from eastern Europe (or they had, last time I was there) because the Dells is much less seasonal now, so the need isn't there any more. But the law sticks around.

Oh, but Republicans are all for Local Governance. Until they're not.

Chip S. said...

I really have no idea what impels me to do this, but what the hell...

Here's the money quote w.r.t. Hitler and the Republicans:

...they're saying it over and over and over because they're using the well-known propaganda tool called 'the big lie.'

You will notice, perhaps, the use of the term "propaganda tool" here, as opposed to, say, "spin doctoring technique" or "PR strategy." This word choice clearly is meant to call back the origins of the term, and its well-known association with Goebbels and Hitler, and is NOT merely some generic contemporary usage that is far removed from its original context--as was the case with Palin and "blood libel."

Unless, I guess, you think the Spanish Inquisition is never far from people's minds in the 21st-Century US.

(Cue the Monty Python video link.)

John Cunningham said...

One thing ya gotta figure is likely i that these products of state schools are likely too ignorant to read the ballots, so they probably mis-marked them.

Amartel said...

Henry @ 7:00 p.m.
"The other thing that people forget is that Hitler didn't claim to use the Big Lie. Like Pines, he accused others of using it."

New Rule: No need to invoke Godwin's Law when the Hitler reference is self-referential.

"Don't make casual, vague allusions to Hitler. It's not right."

Also, not smart.

chickelit said...

harrogate wrote:
When Palin used the term "Blood Libel" to cast herself as a victim, it was no biggie. But this--THIS--is unconscionable!!!!

This was crafted as if there were some hypocrisy involved on Althouse's part--at least that's how I read it. It goes like this:

Palin uses old anti-Semitic term (blood libel), Althouse yawns; leftie (anti-Walker) uses old Goebbels propaganda term, Althouse challenges.

Is that the hypocrisy alleged, harrogate?

But then harrogate reveals:

Surely the strong pro-Walker stance has nothing to do with the sudden moral-rhetorical turn?

There we have a partial answer—harrogate is upset and concerned that Althouse has uneven rhetorical morals.

It gets better. Seven Machos suggested Harrogate may have an unusual interest in Palin. Look at harrogate’s first sentence again: When Palin used the term "Blood Libel" to cast herself as a victim, it was no biggie.

The context of Palin’s use of the term was in response to the Giffords shooting. She said:

Especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn

Perhaps harrogate thinks Palin was telling a lie but it really was a “biggie” Else why the charge of hypocrisy against Althouse?

Get it? Big Lie? Harrogate thinks Palin is like Hitler!

Alternatively, Althouse should have had a moral reaction to Palin's rhetoric; but in context, that seems absurd.

Machos may be right about harrogate and Palin after all.

Original Mike said...

"Priebus: I'm always concerned about it, which is why I think we need to do a point or two better than where we think we need to be, to overcome it."...

Lester Pines: "His statement that Republicans need to outperform Democrats by one to two percent to account for vote fraud is an absolute, total, 100% lie,"


This is so stupid. Nobody knows, because we have no way of checking. WHICH IS THE POINT TO VOTER ID!!!!!!!

harrogate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
harrogate said...

chickelit,

You wrote this:

"There we have a partial answer—harrogate is upset and concerned that Althouse has uneven rhetorical morals"

as though it were some sort of revelation. If instead of "upset" you had typed "pointing out," you would have gotten much much closer.

But anyway. The truth is that people who went all moralistic about the "Blood Libel" line were being stupid. It is equally stupid to go all moralistic about what Pines said.

The issue is not one of hypocrisy, it is one of intellectual honesty.

chickelit said...

harrogate typed: If instead of "upset" you had typed "pointing out," you would have gotten much much closer.

I'll try it out: harrogate pointed out [and is concerned] that Althouse has uneven rhetorical morals.

It just sounds dishonest because of its cocksurety on your part.

Phil 3:14 said...

Now there's a great new motto:

"I'm one of the ilk "

Wally Kalbacken said...

Speaking of class, Debbie Wasserman Schultz has announced the the President-who-articulated-a-cigar-in-the-vagina-of-a-young-woman-in-the-Oval-Office will be campaigning for Barrett in the state Friday. That is class!

harrogate said...
This comment has been removed by the author.