April 25, 2012

P.J. O'Rouke tells you guys to stop wearing shorts.

I've been saying it for years. (Click the "men in shorts" tag.) But here's P.J.:
Comfortable means “easy.” So: Nothing’s easier than matching a pair of pants and a jacket that look exactly alike. I’ve got a closet full of blue suits and black wing tips. Any tie goes with a white shirt. I can get dressed in the dark. And—what with blinding hangovers from drinking on airplanes to soften the shock of first-class seats filled with graying, jowly urchins—I often do.

The kid-who-stayed-40-years-too-long-on-the-playground look doesn’t inspire trust. If dressing up as a third grader is your idea of how to treat yourself, what’s your idea of how to treat me?

108 comments:

CJinPA said...

Seems like it's as much a complaint about modern air travel as a fashion complaint. (Or preachers wearing shorts in church?)

Two of my favorite writers are O'Rouke and George Will, who despises blue jeans. What kind of tuxedo does one wear to the beach?

Paddy O said...

Some people think trust should be applied based on the content of one's character not on the content of one's closet.

Try to woo my respect with a nice tie or a blue suit? Who cares. I'll listen to what you say and what you believe and how you live. If you live in a way that matches what you say you believe, you're a person of character.

Fashion is an illusion, a disguise, a way of display that appeals to our most shallow selves, often insisting that our instincts be driven below a veneer of societally imposed standards, standards that say nothing about a person's actual identity.

More men in suits and fancy costume have screwed this world than men in shorts and comfortable attire. Give me the people who know themeselves, who live true to themselves and true to their environment, who express their character through the way they live their daily lives among others.

Ties are silly pieces of fabric. Suits are unwieldy heavy collections of often environmentally unsuitable fabric.

Let's all wear whatever is comfortable and that way be dependent solely on the ideas and character that we bring to the table.

G Joubert said...

I'd tell you that you really ought to rein in this weird fixation you have on this subject, but that sort of comment just seems to egg you on more.

That said, I must say I'd never wear cargo pants or anything like them on an airliner.

Paddy O said...

I'll add that I think dressing up for church is among the more pernicious evils ever introduced to ecclesial society. And I'm serious about that.

Crunchy Frog said...

I'll add that I think dressing up for church is among the more pernicious evils ever introduced to ecclesial society. And I'm serious about that.

Agreed. There are few things that annoy me more than blue-noses making someone to feel uncomfortable in church for daring to show up in jeans and a T-shirt.

Salvation should not depend on attire.

Roman said...

I will quit wearing shorts when women stop wearing pants.

Aridog said...

Dear Mr O'Rourke ... may I suggest NetJets for your next flight? No jowly urchins in flip flops might be a benefit :)

Airplane travel went the way of bus travel three decades ago . just noticed, eh?

Ron said...

What is the juvenalizing clothing for women again? Mary Janes?

ricpic said...

Structured clothing (a sport jacket, dress slacks) just isn't as comfortable as soft clothing (a t-shirt, baggy shorts). Presentable is another matter. Most guys, rightly, are more concerned with comfort.

chickenlittle said...

Confuscious say: attacking shorts on men like attacking window dressing--actual problem is inside house.

Rabel said...

Clearly Mr. O'Rourk's views on clothing were warped by the merciless childhood taunts he endured for being named after formal sleepwear.

I'll bet he wore footies well into his teens.

rhhardin said...

I started the Bermudas on airplanes movement personally in the late 60s.

Bermudas are even ideal in winter, but with sweatpants over them. That cooling profile is well matched for bike commuting.

These babies are the most durable I've found, and on sale $14.99, as low as they ever go.

Use for work, church and play.

Joe said...

I work with a large--not fat, but large--guy who often wears shorts and flip flops. He looks like a total doofus, but he's comfortable, so whatever.

X said...

I'll add that I think dressing up for church is among the more pernicious evils ever introduced to ecclesial society. And I'm serious about that.

when my dad preached at a small rural church the men wore their overalls with a clean shirt and a western tie and straw hats.

chickenlittle said...

@hardin: Those shorts are not unseamly...

CJinPA said...

I'll add that I think dressing up for church is among the more pernicious evils ever introduced to ecclesial society. And I'm serious about that.

Doesn't dressing up demonstrate seriousness? Wouldn't a church want to encourage that?

I don't like having to put on nice clothes every Sunday morning, but I'm not offended by it. And I don't like having to prod my kids into dressing up for certain events, but I understand why it's necessary.

Larry J said...

When I'm not at work, I dress for comfort more than anything else. If P. J. O'Rouke (or Ann) doesn't like it, too damned bad. I'm not dressing to please you nor to make a fashion statement. For that matter, fashion is for weak-willed suckers.

Kit said...

Paddy O, my sentiments, as well. I'd also add, beware of fashion advise from one who boasts of 'blinding hangovers' (just something I've learned over time).

traditionalguy said...

If you've got it flaunt it... a youthful body that is.

But guys who are over 30 are really only fooling themselves. The executives with money wear the long pants.

Besides who over 30 would wear shorts or a hoodie? That could call for a 9mm to the chest under the Not In My Back Yard law.

Somebody warn Bill Belichik

Ann Althouse said...

A man in shorts on a plane is really the worst. It's open disrespect for your seat mates.

You're going to have someone next to you, forced to see your hairy thighs for hours. It's really unfair.

rehajm said...

Indeed, there are charmers who do attempt to disguise shortcomings through grooming and fashion, but they are easily identified once they open their mouths. Never is it seen the other way, where a person of gravitas would dare don the attire of the everyman. That doesn't mean casual clothing is off limits, it means when you do dress informally it's done with consideration- for the occasion, for your social counterparts. Consideration is the key- you dress as if it matters.

"More men in suits and fancy costume have screwed this world than men in shorts and comfortable attire."

Men in shorts and comfortable attire forever fail to achieve a position of stature or authority where they would be capable of screwing the world...unless you count strapping on a vest full of C4. Men of substance dress as if it matters, and for men of substance it always matters...

Bob Ellison said...

They can have my shorts when they pry them...hmm; sounds like fun...

BarrySanders20 said...

If I am out of the office and it's over 70 degrees, it is likely I will be outside for some period of time. That almost always includes some work around the house or shooting baskets with the kids, so the shorts are on. That's simply reality away from the faculty lounge and away from the dainty males.

Buyt I insist on "trousers" for church. Some things I cannot change.

themightypuck said...

Value sells itself. To achieve high margins you need to resort to other measures.

Moose said...

Sorry, but I'm not here to inspire trust in you. If I wear shorts in public, then I'm not trolling for your validation. I'm *comfortable*.

Jeebus - this obsession of yours.

DADvocate said...

Last weekend I hiked to the Chimney Tops in the Smoky Mountains, a 1,700 foot elevation gain in 2 miles. I thought it would be cool, so I wore jeans. It wasn't and I damn sure wish I had worn shorts.

Geoff Matthews said...

I wear shorts during spring-fall because I get warm easy (I'm sure it developed from repeated exposure to Canadian winters and a father who fit every stereotype with the thermostat). But I don't wear them at work, church, or other serious settings.
And I only fly for work, so get off my back.
Incidentally, I have a conference in New Orleans this June, and I'm seriously considering flying shorts. I was not made for temperatures over 85 (F).

Carol said...

"blue-noses making someone to feel uncomfortable in church for daring to show up in jeans and a T-shirt."

And where do they do that, nowadays? Was this some sort of childhood trauma of yours?

DADvocate said...

forced to see your hairy thighs for hours

THat wasn't my thigh.

LCB said...

Dressing up for church isn't "supposed" to be about salvation, fashion or to show off for the other members. The idea is, or was, to honor God by coming before Him in your finest. My grandfather would wear his cleanest bibs, a clean white shirt and an old suit jacket. I'm sure God accepted that! It was all he had.

After all, if you were British, would you appear before your Queen in a hoody or shorts? In Christianity, Jesus is supposed to be your King. When you go to church you're appearing in HIS sanctuary.

Sadly, too many people dress to the nines now in churches to impress others. I don't think showing honor to God requires suits and ties, but at least for me it requires SOME effort at looking nice. Dress shirt and Dockers for me.

As for shorts in general: I am NOT going to a July 4th picnic on a 95 degree day in the Greater Miami River valley in long pants. The humidity is murder!! :-)

Icepick said...

Down here in Florida it hit 89 degrees back in February. What do you think July will be like? If you want to wear a suit and tie in that weather, that's your choice. I'll stick to shorts and a tee-shirt unless someone is paying me to do otherwise.

Palladian said...

I only wear short pants in my studio, never outside; I don't have the legs for it.

I don't mind when a man with a beautiful leg wears them, but I think they make most men look silly and sloppy. I advocate loose linen trousers for warm weather wear. I believe they actually keep you cooler than short pants.

The worse offenses, as far as I'm concerned, are flip-flops and sleeveless t-shirts as street wear. Repulsive, on men or women. I do not want to see your filthy toes when I'm on the subway. I do not want your armpit hair in my face when you're strap-hanging on that subway train, either.

Erika said...

My husband donates his time, after working all day/week to support his wife and four children to coach our daughter's little league softball team. He wears college t-shirts and khaki shorts. Unlike some who enjoy moderate upper Midwest temperatures, he coaches these kids through Texas springs and autumns that feature hot spells pushing 100 degrees with coastal humidity.

Sorry if some find his hairy calves offensive, but their tender feelings really aren't factoring in to his sartorial decisionmaking.

Now gum-chewing in public--that is a scourge I could happily jail people for.

BarrySanders20 said...

"A man in shorts on a plane is really the worst. It's open disrespect for your seat mates.

You're going to have someone next to you, forced to see your hairy thighs for hours."

I prefer others wear more clothes to less as well, but shorts really have come a long way in the last 15 years, Ann. Unless you have the repetitive misfourtune of sitting next to Eastern Eurpoean men in Speedos, or the 1983 men's basketball team from Indiana University, you should not be exposed to "thigh hair." the most you'll see nowadays is calf hair, which simply isn't as gross.

People taking their shoes off in a plane is gross. Wearing modern shorts, not so much.

Palladian said...

"Dressing up for church isn't "supposed" to be about salvation, fashion or to show off for the other members. The idea is, or was, to honor God by coming before Him in your finest."

Read the Gospels. Were any of the wretched who came to Christ wearing their finery?

And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Icepick said...

In Christianity, Jesus is supposed to be your King. When you go to church you're appearing in HIS sanctuary.

Hey, Jesus walked around in smelly robes and wore sandals. Why do _I_ have to dress up if he won't?

LCB said...

Flying is a different case for me. Maybe Ann hit on it when she talks about being forced to sit next to hairy thighs. What I would think is worse is wearing shorts AND sitting next to someone wearing shorts. I wouldn't mind so much rubbing legs with a woman...cough, cough...but I'd be petrified to allow it to happen. And if it WAS another guy with hairy legs...well...modern coach seats what they are...and...we'd both be sweaty until they got the air going and...EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

themightypuck said...

Why does Dr. Oz wear scrubs? Why does Mark Cuban wear jeans?

tim maguire said...

Sure, admire the Rat Pack for wearing tuxedos everywhere and mid-century men for wearing hats. But people should be dressed appropriately for the occasio0n. Sometimes that means a suit,sometimes jeans, sometimes shorts.

Point out that 3rd graders wear shorts all you want, but don't make the mistake of thinking you have thereby proven something. 3rd graders breath air too, you know. At least the live ones.

CJinPA said...

"More men in suits and fancy costume have screwed this world than men in shorts and comfortable attire."

Men in shorts and comfortable attire forever fail to achieve a position of stature or authority where they would be capable of screwing the world...

[insert applause]

Icepick said...

And if it WAS another guy with hairy legs...well...modern coach seats what they are...and...we'd both be sweaty until they got the air going and...EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

This is devolving into an Andrew Sullivan commentary.

Icepick said...

Men in shorts and comfortable attire forever fail to achieve a position of stature or authority where they would be capable of screwing the world...

See above regarding Mark Cuban.

CatherineM said...

Shorts don't bother me as much as flip flops. Men in particular since they don't take care of their feet like women do and women with professional attire (even if it's just walking home). Frankly, walking around nearly barefoot in the filth of NYC is disgusting. Period.

bagoh20 said...

"If dressing up as a third grader is your idea of how to treat yourself, what’s your idea of how to treat me?"

Dominique Strauss-Kahn never wears shorts, and is always in a white shirt and dark jacket.

I'm sure this a very smart way to judge men, and a nice pants crease always makes for a great President.

How's that silky pony, while we're at it?

It's like some women are impervious to the benefits of experience. For them, aging must be especially cruel. All cost and no benefit.

LCB said...

Palladan,
In the Gospels I read...no one HAD anything we'd consider their finest. The rich mostly shunned Jesus. It was the poor and downtrodden that came to him.

That said, I have no problem if someone shows up in my church wearing jeans and a t-shirt. It's really between them and God. And yes, things change. When I was a lad, most men wore suits. Now, I think only the pastor does. I prefer to wear a dress shirt and nice pants because I'm comfortable that I'm showing enogh "honor"...and I think that God understands that I feel strangled wearing a tie. :-)

ICEPICK: You may want to skip ahead in the New Testemant to where Jesus was lifted up to heaven, and revealed in His finest. :-)

Rocketeer said...

A man in shorts on a plane is really the worst. It's open disrespect for your seat mates.

Ah, success. Excellent! Open disrespect is the message I'm trying to communicate to my seat mates when I fly.

CJinPA said...

See above regarding Mark Cuban.

And the list goes on and on after that respected, global giant.

Icepick said...

You may want to skip ahead in the New Testemant to where Jesus was lifted up to heaven, and revealed in His finest. :-)

Two points:

First, as soon as Jesus lifts me (hairy thighs and all) up to Heaven I'll wear my finest!

Second, I guess this means Heaven is air conditioned....

edutcher said...

You can wear a nice pair of walking shorts, pressed and with a belt, and look just fine.

You can put on a suit and look like a slob (Slobbering Bawney, anyone?).

What you wear isn't always as important as how you wear it.

G Joubert said...

I'd tell you that you really ought to rein in this weird fixation you have on this subject, but that sort of comment just seems to egg you on more.

She sees a man in shorts and has to fight the urge to see what the rest of his lower half looks like.

Ann Althouse said...

A man in shorts on a plane is really the worst. It's open disrespect for your seat mates.

You're going to have someone next to you, forced to see your hairy thighs for hours. It's really unfair.


My seatmate in such situations is usually The Blonde and she thinks I look smashing in shorts.

Besides, my thighs are fairly smooth.

Jeff with one 'f' said...

While we're at it can we get Baby Boomer men to stop wearing jeans? For the last 20 years they all seem to be wearing relaxed fit/Mom jeans. Along with t-shirts, baseball caps and puffy running shoes. Thety look like greybearded toddlers, not adults.

rehajm said...

See above regarding Mark Cuban.

I'd almost concede Cuban, except the jeans and Ts are part of his shtick to appeal to the everyman. He also has a closet full of bespoke he wears regularly. And before you invoke Zuckerberg -the jury's still out on him.

LCB said...

Fair enough, Icepick. :-)

bagoh20 said...

" Men in shorts and comfortable attire forever fail to achieve a position of stature or authority where they would be capable of screwing the world..."

This is demonstrably untrue:

Some men rise above their shorts.

bagoh20 said...

One benefit of men in shorts, ladies, is that at least you know he''s not playing you for a sucker. Shorts are honest, and if a man tried to fool you with his appearance, he's probably not looking past yours.

Icepick said...

And the list goes on and on after that respected, global giant.

Look at the pictures from the early days at Microsoft or Apple. I imagine that the early days a Google weren't exactly sartorially outstanding. I've read about lots of start-ups that made it where the only sartorial dictat was to bath regularly and after that no one cared.

I also remember reading about Richard Feynman showing up to give a talk and everyone blanched because he showed up wearing a tie. He was over-dressed for the occassion and they let him know it.

I remember seeing lots of pictures of men working on the early space program wearing very casual clothes, although usually not shorts. (It was work, after all.) And if you look you can find pics of men working on the atom bomb and hydrogen bomb wearing shorts, sandals and no shirts at all. (They were working on their tans, or testing their new sun tan lotions presumably.)

Do those folks count as movers and shakers?

Hard and fast rules about attire are assinine.

Three things need to be judged when making clothing choices:

1. What can I afford?
2. What's the occassion?
3. What will be comfortable?

Necessity dicates that the first question is always the most important. The other two need to be judged on the merits. Wearing a three piece suit and tie somewhere in East Texas for a cook-out in July is the height of stupidity. Similarly in northern Alaska in January, style simply does not matter. If you are attending a black tie dinner at the White House, however, style probably matters more. (And you'd better know the difference between black tie and white tie - black tie is the less formal event. A tux is for slackers.)

Shanna said...

The idea is, or was, to honor God by coming before Him in your finest.

Indeed. That doesn’t mean people at church should be in the business of judging you on your outfit (and at this point, we’ve gone pretty much the opposite direction so I don’t think there is much reason to worry).

It’s easy enough for someone from Wisconsin to rant about shorts. Try moving down south and living with 108 degree weather for a week or two. (actually, I prefer skirts/dresses for warm weather but they are not appropriate for every situation). It's already mid 80's and has been for months this year.

ndspinelli said...

All temporal, superficial and unimportant. Wear whatever the fuck you want to wear and tell people who want to criticize what you wear to go shit in their hat.

Real men don't give much thought into what they wear. I know a guy who always wear a hat, jeans, and vest. To each their own. And, we've had this discussion previously Althouse. In your myopic mind you stated men who don't give a shit about attire don't care about getting women. I have always had this attitude back to my youth and I got laid plenty, thank you! So, lets not rehash your hangups..see a shrink.

CJinPA said...

1. What can I afford?
2. What's the occassion?
3. What will be comfortable?


Affordability is rarely an issue in the context of this discussion. Your job provides your income. You'll pay what you need to to keep your job. Comfort? Yeah, I wear shorts outside of work, on informal occasions. Nothing wrong with that. (I would not board a plane in shorts.)

So, really the consideration is #2. Occasion.

I think you're on shakey ground going back to the 40s-60s on attire. Much more formal then.

Earth Girl said...

P.J. reminds me of a friend's father, an eccentric judge, who mowed his lawn in a suit and wingtips because any other attire was not appropriate for a judge, even in the humid summers of Indiana.

Paddy O said...

The "seriousness" argument is definitely the best one for dressing up to church, but I think it is outweighed by the reality that we use fashion in order to impress and, also, to compete with others.

Indeed, more than this temptation comes the reality that those who are too poor to dress up sufficiently feel ashamed or embarrassed so then, for a lack of a nice or clean set of clothes, don't go to church.

Our declaration of seriousness is itself moot before the God who looks at our hearts and minds and whole lives. We could never dress up enough to display the seriousness and honor God deserves, and playing at it both gives us a false sense of sufficiency and a decided element of inequality in our congregations.

ndspinelli said...

I have pictures from back in the 1950's of one of my Italian uncles sitting on the beach on the Ct. shore wearing suit pants, white shirt and tie. Most all would say it was stupid. But, being from a libertarian family everybody just said, "Well, that's Dom." To each their own.

ndspinelli said...

PaddyO, gets it. Always a voice of sanity, cutting through horseshit and getting to what's truly important.

chickenlittle said...

You're going to have someone next to you, forced to see your hairy thighs for hours. It's really unfair.

I'm not sure where that sentiment comes from but it's completely consonant with whole metrosexual manscaping trend.

ndspinelli said...

I didn't know Althouse flew commercial.

Shanna said...

Indeed, more than this temptation comes the reality that those who are too poor to dress up sufficiently feel ashamed or embarrassed so then, for a lack of a nice or clean set of clothes, don't go to church.

For this reason, some churches around here encourage at least some portion of their members to purposefully dress down.

themightypuck said...

The only reason to not speak or dress the way one desires is social propriety. Shorts on airplanes for instance. Well adjusted people can figure this sort of thing out on the fly and break the rules when necessary. If you've got a touch of the gout it is ok to wear sandals to your grandma's funeral.

chickenlittle said...

ndspinelli said...
I didn't know Althouse flew commercial.



I thought Althouse was afraid of flying.

________
wv = erallet titorati

Titus belongs to the titorati.

Tully said...

Unlike some who enjoy moderate upper Midwest temperatures

Bingo. It's 95 here today and I've been working outside. Shorts it is. Don't like it? Don't look.

On a plane? Nah, too many things in airports to bump and scrape my legs. Like TSA agent's jackboots and such.

Moose said...

So what about women in dresses and unsightly legs? I mean for god's sake? Does this mean I can say "cover up you legs you unsightly bitch" if I have that happen?

this is absurd. Find something important to obsess about...

edutcher said...

Jeff with one 'f' said...

While we're at it can we get Baby Boomer men to stop wearing jeans?

You're obviously too young to have been exposed to "The Greening Of America".

BTW, where I went to school, jeans were forbidden, so I never got in the habit.

Of course, after 6th grade, we were required to wear a coat and tie with an Oxford shirt and suitable pants.

Anthony said...

Gawd, a blue suit. How pedestrian and bland. I think I'd rather drown in someone else's vomit.

AllieOop said...

If the hairy thigh is attached to a handsome man, why not? Hair on men's thighs is perfectly natural. Why not be in shorts, especially if one is on their way to some tropical destination?

So my conclusion is, only drop dead gorgeous men should be allowed on a plane with shorts on.

MarkW said...

"You're going to have someone next to you, forced to see your hairy thighs for hours. It's really unfair."

I'm sitting in a chair with shorts on right now (just got back from a bike ride). You can't see my thighs (men's shorts just aren't that short these days). Now, there is hair on my lower legs of course, and it's very much like the hair on my forearms (which are sometimes bare on airplanes as well!) Is that gross too?

Personally, I can't imagine caring what people on the plane next to me wear -- I care that A) they don't smell, B) that they're not so fat they encroach on my space, C) they don't have little kids they can't (or can't be bothered to) manage. I don't really even care if they won't shut up (headphones solve that problem).

Victor Erimita said...

I too find middle-aged men who dress like grade schoolers dismaying. But it is a sign of the success of the culture war on the masculine. If men are not going to enjoy rewards or respect for their masculinity, they aren't going to pay the price for it either. More formal, dignified clothing used to show a kind of personal restraint, a mastery over creature appetites and weaknesses, and a respectful forbearance of reminding others of theirs.

The masculine was, among other things, about holding up the laws of society, including social and moral morays. Now that the masculine has been thoroughly delegitimized, even pathologized, its only remaining vestiges are its restraints, which instead of being markers of a mastery of deeper truths, now seem to be merely empty, and therefore foolish, personal restrictions. Why would anyone want mere empty restrictions? Modes of dress are merely one expression of that realization.

Jerry Seinfeld once told George Costanza that George wearing sweats outside his home meant "I give up." Exactly. The man in shorts is the emasculated male that feminists have been striving for since the 1960s. Behold and rejoice.

Meade said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Meade said...

Guys, take my advice: Wear shorts.

Wear them on planes, wear them on trains. With goats, on boats. In your house, with a mouse.

And if your name is Hovde, Braun, or Rodgers, Aar...

wear them, wear them, everywhere!

Quaestor said...

When I first met PJ O'Rourke (I don't know who O'Rouke is, sounds like an Arab of some kind.) he was wearing a blue blazer with chino slacks over a blue-on-white striped shirt, the whole finished off with a paisley tie and topsiders. If he had added a straw boater to the ensemble he would have had just the look for an Oxford-Cambridge row. And this is the author of How to Drive Fast on Drugs While Getting Your Wing-Wang Squeezed and Not Spill Your Drink, I said to myself.

Forthenri said...

Why are we talking about men wearing shorts when we could be devoting our time and effort to discussion of the important, searing issues of the day?

Like dogs. Who crates them and who eats them? And how old were the offending parties when they did dirty deeds to their dogs?

bagoh20 said...

I always take the window seat, but I also shave my right thigh to be considerate to those who get the vapors from the effects of testosterone.

glenn said...

I wrote a blog post about this a couple of years back. Called it beauty and the scrounge. It's about something I really don't understand. Why would a really nice looking well dressed babe show up with a guy who looks like he got dressed from my rag bag?

glenn said...

And BTW being a scrounge has nothing to do with comfort. It's called laziness.

AllieOop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllieOop said...

Testosterone is nice, especially when the body that houses it is male :). Don't shave that leg.

As Meade said wear those shorts, some men can wear 'em better than others. Life isn't fair.

LoafingOaf said...

Now, there is hair on my lower legs of course, and it's very much like the hair on my forearms (which are sometimes bare on airplanes as well!) Is that gross too?

It can be. I'm tall and was once seated next to a very fat man and we both had bare arms and it did bug me all flight. Seems better to wear long sleeves on a plane.

But legs are worse than arms. I generally don't care when men wear shorts, but I gotta agree that you should never wear 'em on a plane. It's disrespectful to people seated next to you.

This Curb Your Enthusiasm clip would've been perfect to go with Althouse's blog post: curb your enthusiasm: shorts are bad for travelling

Lyle said...

I live in the South and will keep wearing shorts, thank you very much.

Ann Althouse said...

"As Meade said wear those shorts, some men can wear 'em better than others. Life isn't fair."

I don't think you got his point.

AllieOop said...

I know Ann. I chose to ignore his point, but use part of what he said to make my point, sorry Meade.

ndspinelli said...

Althouse, You got your ass kicked on this thread. You're grasping @ straws and desperation does not become anyone, particularly you. Lick your wounds and move on..that would be the smart thing to do.

Do you fly commercial or private? I'm interested to learn about hairy thighs near your pristine eyes.

jimbino said...

Teddy Roosevelt in shorts:

http://www.sportsgrid.com/media/photo-finish-young-teddy-roosevelt-looks-about-ready-to-fight-you/

Paul Ciotti said...

If God didn't want men to have hairy legs he wouldn't have given us testosterone (or Androgel).

William said...

Ever see pictures of guys attending baseball games in the fifties. They wore suits, ties, and fedoras. I wonder who was the first person to start showing up hatless and in a t-shirt. Did all the guys in fedoras and corporate drag look at him like he was some kind of diseased degenerate, or did they look at him an say "YES. That is the truth and the light"......I wear shorts when it's seasonally appropriate. If I'm travelling or will be indoors a lot I wear long pants. Bare legs are more uncomfortable in a cold room than long pants are on a warm day.....I have found that intelligent, sensitive women are willing to look beyond skinny legs towards a generous heart and terrific mind as the things that really count. But perhaps that is only true in women under forty.

Elliott A said...

It is 8:18 PM in Hilton Head, SC and I am sitting at this computer wearing shorts. I wore shorts to play golf, go to the beach and generally hang out. I will never give them up!

ndspinelli said...

William, JFK killed the mens top hat biz. JFK never wore a hat, which created a huge stir. My old man always wore a top hat[ala Lucky Luicano..wide brimmed]. But, reluctantly my dad stopped wearing a top hat ~10 months or so into the JFK tenure. That was the case for all his friends and family and the entire nation. Stetson was the biggest maker of mens hats and they get an almost knockout punch from this serendipitous fashion paradigm shift.

Meade said...

What an enormous load of hooey.

My old man was an alpha male and so was his old man. So was Ma's pa. They all wore Stetsons until the day they died. Tons of American men did and still do.

They didn't follow the "fashion paradigm shift" of
Saint JFK.

And the Stetson  Made of America company has never come even close to going out of business.

ndspinelli said...

Meade, Look @ crowd shots of baseball games from the 1950's and compare then to crowd shots from the mid to late 1960's. What's missing..the Stetsons!! I'm sure all the Meade men were good Republican alpha males who wore top hats, too bad that alpha male wasn't passed on to you. You're pissed because your bride got her ass kicked in this thread. Don't try and rewrite history as you are prone to do. And, let her fight the battles she picked..she's an adult and quite capable.

JFK killed the mens top hat biz. Maybe not in your little Hoosier household..but everywhere else.

mishu said...

The only reason I don't wear shorts on the plane is that the plane is usually too cold at 40,000 feet. This whole shorts obsession is stupid.

Also, I like P.J. O'Rourke but bragging about hang overs and cigars is mature and masculine than shorts? Please.

Meade said...

"Stetson was the biggest maker of mens hats and they get an almost knockout punch from this serendipitous fashion paradigm shift."

You just hafta laugh.

This much I will concede:

There are some heads that are so big that even a Stetson 3X-Large won't fit them. A 10-gallon won't hold 4 quarts of bullshit.

LCB said...

Thinking back, my first memory of men wearing shorts was seeing pictures in history books: Africa Korp vs Desert Rats. So I don't get this whole "only metrosexual men wear shorts" schtick!! Can someone explain it to me?

Of course, my first shorts were jeans I had worn the knees out of in the early 70's...cut offs. I don't think I bought a "made" pair of shorts until the 80's.

Kirby Olson said...

What about NBA players?

Steve Koch said...

I wonder how Althouse developed this odd little quirk. Must make it difficult to enjoy basketball, tennis, and swimming.

ndspinelli said...

Meade, JFK was the first president to not wear a hat @ his inauguration. Stetson was so damaged by the JFK hatless presidency that by the early 1970's stopped making hats and just sold licensing rights to other hat makers. The facts are clear. So your "bullshit" allegation is classic projection. Let this one go.

Meade said...

You're talking out of your hat. Photos of a hatless JFK at his inauguration or it never didn't not happen.

Lionheart said...

So, Althouse is skeeved my men's bare legs and Meade likes him some Stetsons. Sounds fine with me although Althouse will be peevish flying next to me on the way to Hawaii and Meade won't see me with a Stetson on unless I'm riding a horse in Texas.

Quaestor said...

Let's stop this "Kennedy never wore a hat" and "Kennedy didn't wear a hat to his inauguration" mythology right now. It's bullshit. Just visit Google Images and search "JFK Top Hat" and you'll see the proof.

SGT Ted said...

Well, there are regular shorts, like Dive shorts or other proper, older style shorts, like Tropical Uniform shorts. These have a place in fashion for men. My dad wore them around, particularly when we'd spend a weekend around the beach. My dad was a diver and surfer, old school, before the modern stoner incarnation. I come from beach town culture, so I don't mind nice shorts worn by men who are usually in good shape.

And then theres the modern baggy pants denim shorts where the legs go down almost below the knee, like some mutated Capri pants, that are popular amongst adolescent boys and quasi thugs, usually worn with the ever present baseball cap worn backwards and with the undewear showing.

Grown men wearing those type of shorts look fucking stupid, like they never grew up and have no intention of doing so.

You may be comfortable, but you look like an arrested development retard and your parents buy you clothes like that to wear at the half-way house because they think you look adorable. They know you'll never get a job, because you are too retarded to function or care about how you look, so they dress you like a little boy.

Yea, thats what you look like. You can thank me later after you come to your senses.

ndspinelli said...

I'm man enough to admit I'm wrong. JFK reluctantly wore the traditional top hat @ his inauguration. He was the last president to do so. However, he didn't like hats and did not wear the traditional business hat which was ubiquitous for decades. JFK didn't want to hide his full head of hair, which he knew was an asset. The business hat subsequently declined rapidly in the 1960's and Stetson closed their hat making factory in Philly in 1971. Again, look @ crowd shots of men in the 1950's and then the 1960's. Chissake..this is an insane debate. Basta!!!

Now, can I put on my shorts and walk around town, sans fedora?

Meade said...

Okay, Mister No Hat All Bullshit

bobby said...

"I do not want to see your filthy toes when I'm on the subway. I do not want your armpit hair in my face when you're strap-hanging on that subway train, either. "
- - - -

Thank you for sharing. Might I suggest that you go check out that other subway car right over there? I'm sure you'll be more comfortable. Lord knows I will be.