April 2, 2012

"Is the Trayvon Martin walkback becoming a stampede?"

"'Heckuva job by the media. We may have race riots in Florida so I hope they enjoyed their time on the fashionable side of this story.' Stay tuned."

232 comments:

1 – 200 of 232   Newer›   Newest»
Fen said...

RICO

Then make the rubble bounce.

Scott M said...

Do you think Sharpton and Jackson compete for what dollar exist in the race-hustling game? In other words, if that's the case, is there pressure between them to be the first "resist we much" on the scene at a new white on black crime?

Pogo said...

NOTICE: MSM news reporting contains anywhere from 50-100% bullshit, as well as insect fragments, mold, rodent hairs, 1936 Democratic Party platform remnants, bits of a 1971 Weatherman policy statement, and other foreign matter.

Adjust your conclusions accordingly.

Andy R. said...

We may have race riots in Florida so I hope they enjoyed their time on the fashionable side of this story.”

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Ken said...

Is Bob Wright packing his bags, getting ready to leave a country because he can't understand the idea of "innocent until proven guilty"?

I bet that was an empty threat, though. He won't leave.

AprilApple said...

Trayvon was 17. The images used by major media make him look like he was 14 or 15. Seems deceptive to me.
Some on the left went ape-shit after Drudge posted a picture of Trayvon looking his age.

Contrarian Catalogue said...

Is Zimmerman's reputation damaged because of the media? Or because he shot and killed someone?

AprilApple said...

Yes Andy, your race hustlers are insinuating that gangs of white vigilantes are out to hunt down blacks. Send money to Obama.

damikesc said...

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

According to FBI stats, it is considerably more prevalent than vice versa.

But blacks killing other blacks is a far bigger problem.

Trayvon was 17. The images used by major media make him look like he was 14 or 15. Seems deceptive to me.
Some on the left went ape-shit after Drudge posted a picture of Trayvon looking his age.


Also showed old photos of Zimmerman. He outweighed Trayvon by, maybe, 20 pounds when the assault happened, but was shorter.

Jay said...

Andy R. said...

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population


Um, George Zimmerman isn't white and nobody said anything similar to what you are claiming.

So your point would be ______?

G Joubert said...

Is Seal Team Six's reputation damaged because of the media? Or because they shot and killed Osama?

Jay said...

Contrarian Catalogue said...
Is Zimmerman's reputation damaged because of the media? Or because he shot and killed someone?


The media.

Fen said...

ANdy: Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

You must have missed the state fair. Pity.

Christopher in MA said...

No, Hat, the major racial issue facing our country is that there is a significant part of the black "community" that have either the intelligence of - well, of you - (never use the words niggardly or black hole or picnic, because they're racist) or are convinced that every morning is Groundhog Day and that Bull Connor is waiting outside the Lorraine Motel with his firehoses and police dogs.

Sloanasaurus said...

Regarding Zimmerman as a pblic figure, it seems to me that in this case, Zimmerman only became a public figure partially because of the fraud (editing the tapes) was committed by various media outlets. He was not really enough of a public figure when the fraud was committed.

Lyssa said...

Is Zimmerman's reputation damaged because of the media? Or because he shot and killed someone?


The media. Shooting and killing someone in self-defense, if that is what happened, is not something which would generally damage a person's reputation.

chickenlittle said...

Andy R. said...

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Non sequitur

Revenant said...

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Well, no. But it is certainly a more significant racial issue than whites terrorizing blacks. Black-on-white homicide is six times as common as white-on-black homicide.

Andy R. said...

Um, George Zimmerman isn't white and nobody said anything similar to what you are claiming.

How did you understand the speculation about race riots in the quotation that Althouse posted?

Andy R. said...

But it is certainly a more significant racial issue than whites terrorizing blacks. Black-on-white homicide is six times as common as white-on-black homicide.

Racism in this country manifests itself in more ways than just murder.

Also, is your contention that the white people being murdered by black people are because of racial reasons?

Bob_R said...

Reynolds describes Zimmerman as a "public figure." What is the legal definition and does Zimmerman indeed fit it?

Pogo said...

"...Non sequitur"

Oddly enough, Non sequitur Studies was Andy R.'s major in college.
He got an 'A'.

Well, everybody did.

Christoph said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andy R. said...

Matt Yglesias likes to make fun of conservatives for believing that the major racial issues facing America are the unfair favoritism that minorities are receiving as well as the possibility that white people will be called racist.

I guess we can add to that the threat to white people from racially based violence from black people.

Those are the three most pressing racial issues in America.

Christopher said...

Listen people the media wants a lynching and they'll be damned if they're going to let a little thing like the facts get in the way.

Ken said...

Andy R,

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Glad you finally noticed. For every crime a white person commits against a black, nine are committed by blacks against whites. There is a concerted effort by the liberal media to hush this up. Have you heard about:

1. The white kid who was systematically harassed by black teachers and classmates and ultimately set on fire?

2. The black mob in Akron, Ohio attacking whites?

3. Again in Cleveland Heights?

4. Again in Philly?

5. Upper Darby, PA?

6. Chicago?

7. Peoria Illinois?

8. In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man?

The list can get very long.

The reason that the Zimmerman case even makes the news is because it's a man bites dog story. Ninety-four percent of all black homicides are perpetrated by blacks. However, when you see this statistic, your response is "Yawn", as it is with all race hustlers.

The Drill SGT said...

We may have race riots in Florida so I hope they enjoyed their time on the fashionable side of this story.”


The thinking of O'bama and his politico's is interesting. They let O'bama go out and take a position (AGAIN) on a sensitive racial issue. He was always going to win 95% of blacks. perhaps racial confrontation might help drive black turn-out that is 95-5 in his favor, but... Florida is a swing state O'bama really needs to win. demonizing a White-Hispanic in Florida has got to budge those Florida Latino's in the wrong direction. Race riots would backfire against the race mongers IMHO.

purplepenquin said...

That audio-editing job that NBC did was disgusting and I hope someone(s) loses their job over it. There is no excuse for that kind of crap in professional journalism.

lemondog said...

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Flash Mobs anyone?

I recall the President expressing great concern!........uhhh,...didn't he....?

Thorley Winston said...

Regarding Zimmerman as a pblic figure, it seems to me that in this case, Zimmerman only became a public figure partially because of the fraud (editing the tapes) was committed by various media outlets.

I think that it’s entirely possible that the editing of the 911 tapes by NBC might rise to the level of “actual malice” (knowledge that the information was false or a reckless disregard for the truth) which is the burden of proof for a public figure suing for defamation.

Hagar said...

The news media are not dominated by "Blacks," but they are dominated by people who need the "Blacks" to vote for their preferred candidate for president this fall.

Andy R. said...

That audio-editing job that NBC did was disgusting and I hope someone(s) loses their job over it. There is no excuse for that kind of crap in professional journalism.

For the record I agree with this.

cubanbob said...

Andy R. said...
We may have race riots in Florida so I hope they enjoyed their time on the fashionable side of this story.”

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

4/2/12 1:35 PM

How many race riots have you ever been in? I have been in two them. Lots of people killed and injured and tremendous property. So if the the race grifters stoke up a race riot in Miami lets send you to walk the streets unarmed in the middle of the riot.

Andy R. said...
But it is certainly a more significant racial issue than whites terrorizing blacks. Black-on-white homicide is six times as common as white-on-black homicide.

Racism in this country manifests itself in more ways than just murder.

Also, is your contention that the white people being murdered by black people are because of racial reasons?

You have any proof that no white person has been killed by a black person due to racial animus? You have any evidence that Zimmerman killed Martin because of racial animus? Or that all killings of blacks by whites are are racially motivated. You are amazing, how is it possible to be so stupid and still be able to breathe?

Alex said...

You can thank the shilohs of the world for instigating these race riots. Good going, fuckhead.

Pogo said...

So I was walking home from work on Friday and staring at my cellphone.

Suddenly I noticed I had joined a group of young people. Here for some sports tournament, was my guess.

Four black teenaged girls, all wearing black hoodies with the all-caps message: JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON.

Just the day before some young black men attacked white bicyclists in downtown Minneapolis. Plus the attacks Ken noted above. I didn't want to find out, so I stopped walking and went the other way.

That's what this all means. My gut instinct is extreme distrust; now and for a long time. I also know no one gives a shit about that.

Alex said...

Andy R-

I guess we can add to that the threat to white people from racially based violence from black people.

Those are the three most pressing racial issues in America.


Yes racially motivated black on whit murder IS one of the most important issues of our time.

Andy R. said...

You have any proof that no white person has been killed by a black person due to racial animus?

I didn't claim that this has never happened.

You have any evidence that Zimmerman killed Martin because of racial animus?

I didn't claim that this is what happened.

Or that all killings of blacks by whites are are racially motivated.

I didn't say that this is the case.

You are amazing, how is it possible to be so stupid and still be able to breathe?

I can't figure out what comments you are referring to or what you think I said.

Fen said...

Andy: Matt Yglesias likes to make fun of conservatives for -

Can we not spend the entire thread trying to deprogram and educate Pedophile Andy again? "Teh Stupid is strong with this one."

Revenant said...

Racism in this country manifests itself in more ways than just murder.

Yawn.

Also, is your contention that the white people being murdered by black people are because of racial reasons?

Zzzzz...

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"For the record I agree with this."

Big of you, hatboy. This, along with not telling kindergartners that the Easter Bunny is fake. You are a visionary.

Alex said...

Andy R.. I can't figure out what comments you are referring to or what you think I said.

My god man, you are either terminally stupid or just playing games.

beast said...

This weekend working spring break with quite a few hoodie wearing roving groups of young people it was noticeable that groups of all color skins were more aggressive.Makes me wonder if the agenda of the media is to make it safe for juvenile males to beat the @#$# out of anyone in authority.

Fen said...

Turn it all around. This was intended to be a JournoList 2.0 effort to limit 2nd Ammendment Rights.

Now we find that its Freedom of the Press that's being abused, conspiracy to libel and instigate race warfare. So I think we need stronger safegaurds in place to limit the Press. They should not be able to do this again without consequence.

cubanbob said...

Andy R. said...
You have any proof that no white person has been killed by a black person due to racial animus?

I didn't claim that this has never happened.

You have any evidence that Zimmerman killed Martin because of racial animus?

I didn't claim that this is what happened.

Or that all killings of blacks by whites are are racially motivated.

I didn't say that this is the case.

You are amazing, how is it possible to be so stupid and still be able to breathe?

I can't figure out what comments you are referring to or what you think I said.

4/2/12 2:19 PM

The ones quoting you.

Fen said...

Gents, one of the things trolls do is spike a thread. They get you talking about them instead of the topic.

Tank said...

Is there going to be a mass organizing event to persuade people to call NBC sponsors and demand that they not advertise on the NBC network where they deliberately edit tapes to mislead the public?

Why shouldn't there be?

And why should NBC have it's license renewed when it is presenting disinformation?

Isn't what they did worse than Rathergate?

Carol said...

It seems rotten that Zimmerman could be seen as a public figure, as a result of all MSM & Martin attorney jacking with the facts. That's where the notoriety came from.

It's not like he willingly put himself forth into the limelight.

Pogo said...

I am so glad we had all this racial healing after Obama got elected.

Just imagine how bad it would have been otherwise.

Lem said...

In more recent pictures of Travon Martin.. the kid appears to be around 6 feet tall.

Look for yourself.

Maybe my eyes deceive me.

beast said...

Oh BTW what do you call a Walgreens raid by a bunch of highschoolers.Sort of fits the definition of riot doesn't it

Lem said...

You might have to scroll down..

It appears as if the family sold the kid's pictures so when you click on that link I showed you is ads and more ads everywhere..

So you might have to scroll down to see the picture.

Matthew said...

"Is there going to be a mass organizing event to persuade people to call NBC sponsors and demand that they not advertise on the NBC network where they deliberately edit tapes to mislead the public?"

-- This seems like a valid reason to boycott NBC and put pressure on their sponsors. If I, you know, actually paid attention to NBC to begin with, I'd join a boycott of NBC. But... this doesn't make sense for me, since they are a non-entity in my life at the moment.

Seriously -- Rush insults a woman who gave testimony to Congress she has admitted to not fully researching (saying she didn't know cheaper alternatives were available), people get upset [rightly so, since his language was a bit rough], and declare an all-out media war on him.

NBC deliberately edits tapes to make a man look like a racist murderer and... some tut-tutting and "people should be fired." ABC uses a graphic to hide part of a video, later admits video does indeed show injury they insisted was not there initially and... nothing?

Where does Mr. Zimmerman go to get his reputation back?

Scott M said...

Sort of fits the definition of riot doesn't it

I wouldn't call that one "racially" motivated. More like a bunch of young idiots trying to take advantage of the situation. Probably done more for the adrenaline high and bragging rights than actually stealing something.

That being said, the flash mob thing is very real here in St Louis and, gasp, it's always happening in black neighborhoods. Scores of white kids are NOT driving to black neighborhoods to commit these crimes.

What gives? And why aren't we able to talk about it?

Fen said...

Again, its not limits to the 2nd Ammendment that we need, its safegaurds to the 1st. Freedom of the Press has been corrupted and abused. We need stonger laws in place so that if they do this again, they can be sued into extinction.

Fen said...

the flash mob thing is very real here in St Louis and, gasp, it's always happening in black neighborhoods. Scores of white kids are NOT driving to black neighborhoods to commit these crimes.

/Avoid Ghetto App tag

RonF said...

I find it interesting that the young man who was killed is always referred to in the media by his first name "Trayvon" - thus emphasizing his African heritage - while the young man who did the killing is always referred to by his last name "Zimmerman" - thus emphasizing his white heritage. Didn't newspapers and TV and radio outlets used to have a style manual that demanded consistency in these things? Is the term "white Hispanic" in there anywhere? I've never heard it before.

edutcher said...

This is the triumph of alternative, decentralized media. In the old days, a high-tech lynching like this would have gone unchecked.

Now, the facts come out and the Lefties, our little trolls especially, have to run for cover, particularly after the media's own shoddy reportage has been exposed.

Andy R. said...

We may have race riots in Florida so I hope they enjoyed their time on the fashionable side of this story.

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.


Read about what happened in Cincinnati a few years ago before you wax sanctimonious.

Or what happened in LA over the weekend.

The stock in trade of race hustlers is fomenting trouble. Hatman's too young to remember Stokely Carmichael and Rap Brown, but he ought to know Al Sharpton's history.

PS Looks like Hatman's doing his ow little walkback right in front of our eyes.

Kudos, commenters.

Fen said...

Ron, I think the use of Martin's first name is meant to personalize him. While the use of Zimmerman's last name is meant depersonalize him.

Canuck said...

Lem,

Do these pictures change something for you? Why?
Why do you want us to look?

So I did. He looks like a tall, gangly geek with a baby face. Especially with the glasses. Cute picture with the little girl.

And so what is the wider point? Is it necessary to analyze pictures of the dead kid? What judgement do you want me to form? Why?

Nothing about the pictures tell us anything about what happened that night.

traditionalguy said...

Could it be possible that the shooting was not racist because everyone knows that we live in perilous times, no matter what your race, and these two confused thinking young men tragically met on a famous dark and rainy night.

But could it be possible that the cover-up done by authorities looks 100% racist, and that has been the bomb the the media has been more than happy to set off?

So why are we rational folks taking sides and enlisting in in a Media Staged race war like we are the White Gang that must prove its courage against a Black Gang? Do we go get our Gang Colors and Tats next?

Why don't we just treat what happened as a shooting death to be fully investigated in a proper forum and the case closed with appropriate punishments?

The emotional hype our Professor disdains is erupting from both sides.

But it is not coming from Trayvon's parents, and that should be good news, not more reason to slander the Black Gang.

Dante said...

Andy Sez:

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Well, a black man is only 1.2 times more likely to kill a white man than a white man is to kill a white man, so I would say "No."

On the other hand, 94% of all murders of blacks are committed by whites. Oh, that's wrong, I meant by blacks.

Fen said...

Nothing about the pictures tell us anything about what happened that night.

The use of Martin's picture as a 12 year old instead of a more current one was used to infantilize Martin and make you react emotionally.

Many people fell for that. Mostly Democrats.

Calypso Facto said...

And why should NBC have it's license renewed when it is presenting disinformation?

I don't know why it should, but I do know why it will: because former NBC parent-co. CEO Jeff Immelt is still in the Obama administration ensuring that gobs of GE cash finds its way to re-election fund and gobs of helpful stories appear on NBC in exchange for gobs of taxpayer money going into things like GE wind turbines.

Scott M said...

Why don't we just treat what happened as a shooting death to be fully investigated in a proper forum and the case closed with appropriate punishments?

Simple. This is an election year, the president is half-black, and the economy still sucks.

chickenlittle said...

Fen said...
Turn it all around. This was intended to be a JournoList 2.0 effort to limit 2nd Ammendment Rights.

That's my take too. This is less about race than trying to garner sympathy/support for handgun control. Bob Wright echoed that the other day (paraphrase): "I don't want guys like Zimmerman walking around with guns"

How is Romney on gun control?

AprilApple said...

Lie, twist, omit and deceive for the agenda now, apologize later. Do they teach this concept in J-school?

edutcher said...

RonF said...

I find it interesting that the young man who was killed is always referred to in the media by his first name "Trayvon" - thus emphasizing his African heritage - while the young man who did the killing is always referred to by his last name "Zimmerman" - thus emphasizing his white heritage

This is a standard tactic on the Left.

The first name makes him "one of us", part of the family (witness the much-reprinted photo of him when he was 12). You get the feeling that somebody like Sharpton or the Rev Jessuh will start saying things like, "We picked cotton together. We crossed Omaha Beach together...".

As for Mr Zimmerman, I read one piece that opined if he called himself Jorge, instead of George, that would have affirmed his Hispanic legacy.

So it's all a head game.

Original Mike said...

"Trayvon was 17. The images used by major media make him look like he was 14 or 15."

Ohhhh, I thought he looked young for 17. That explains it.

Fen said...

Why don't we just treat what happened as a shooting death to be fully investigated in a proper forum

It already has been. The DA, based on crime-scence evidence and witness testimony, decided that Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

and the case closed with appropriate punishments?

How about you pay for Zimmerman's defense? $100,000 to prove what we already know in an effort to satisfy the ignorant and irrational racemongerers. Seems like a small price to pay to keep up appearances, yes?

Pogo said...

"But it is not coming from Trayvon's parents, and that should be good news, not more reason to slander the Black Gang."

Black leaders have been more than happy, thrilled even, to blame this on white racism.

So were you, here in thes forums, just days ago, blaming a racist coverup.

Me, I'm done with it. Every time I hear 'racism' now I hear bullshit blah blah blah, a meaningless word meant to trump the conversation, an incendiary lie to spread fear and doubt.

Lem said...

The initial story had pictures of a very young Traivon Martin..

Pictures that helped shaped the opinions of onlookers like me..

If you have never been accosted then.. my point is lost on you.

I know we often dismiss cliches.. but I believe in this case..

Size mattered!

DADvocate said...

I wonder if the news agencies that willfully edited the videos and 911 call could be found culpable for any damages caused by rioting. It's certainly a forseeable outcome of their biased reporting.

Why does anyone trust the MSM any more? From this, to car problems, to bird songs at golf matches, they make it up.

Fen said...

Ohhhh, I thought he looked young for 17. That explains it.

It also explains the media's subtle racism. They don't think the public will respond as warmly if the victim is viewed as an adult black male.

Hence the effort to make him a little boy.

Original Mike said...

"That audio-editing job that NBC did was disgusting and I hope someone(s) loses their job over it. There is no excuse for that kind of crap in professional journalism.

NBC. Figures.

Fen said...

I must admit that I really enjoy watching my RL liberal friends react to all this.

They are still 3-4 days behind the information loop. I don't say anthing or try to correct them. Its been a very amusing week watching how easily they were manipulated.

You'd think after the Obama HopeyChange con they would be more wary. And it really amazes me how people who are so intelligent and educated can be so very ignorant AND stupid on topics like this. Its as if they were never taught to think for themselves.

MadisonMan said...

Let me add, as someone who hasn't really commented on this case (other than to say that it was obvious to me that Zimmerman was indeed guilty of shooting Martin -- duh) that NBC's selective editing of the 911 tape is horribly, horribly bad.

I'll be very curious to see how many people are fired because of it. Or will they issue a We're sorry if you were offended-type non-apology?

kcom said...

"referred to in the media by his first name "Trayvon" - thus emphasizing his African heritage"

You'd have to travel a long way through Africa to find someone named Trayvon. And even then, you wouldn't.

DADvocate said...

"Trayvon was 17. The images used by major media make him look like he was 14 or 15."

I have a 15 year old daughter and a son that just turned 19. Having plenty of familiarity with how kids look during the middle school ages and high school, I immediately doubted that the shown pictures were of a high school kid.

I also looked up Trayvon's high school and saw that its mascot/nickname wasn't what was printed on any of the football uniforms he was shown in. Over the years, I've learned to be skeptical of the press, if for no other reason than that many journalists aren't that smart although they may be good with words.

Fen said...

I'll be very curious to see how many people are fired because of it.

It'll be a white-wash, like the CBS "independent" panel that ousted Mapes.

There may be a scapegoat, even though the effort to produce that fraudulent tape involved at least a dozen employees.

The only reason NBC is even doing an internal investigation is to ward of a lawsuit.

X said...

madman, who cares if they fire anyone or apologize? why would you trust them again?

Rabel said...

If the Klan were to lynch the Hispanic guy, could it possibly lead us to racial Nirvana?

Hey, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

Pete the Streak said...

Hatman, relax - you've already got the black vote.

If your carping here doesn't get you that black lady you covet, maybe it's a fashion thing.

Just sayin'.

gerry said...

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Goofy.

Alex said...

The only reason NBC is even doing an internal investigation is to ward of a lawsuit.

Too damn late. I hope Zimmerman sues NBC for a $100 billion.

Thorley Winston said...

Ron, I think the use of Martin's first name is meant to personalize him. While the use of Zimmerman's last name is meant depersonalize him. .

That was my thought as well. There’s been a concerted effort by some (the MSM, the grievance industry, and certain politicians) to make Trayvon Martin as sympathetic and palatable to the public as possible as he is a martyr for ____________ (fill in the cause of the day here). This is in line with initially showing three to four year old pictures to make the “victim” look as young and as innocent as possible. Many people won’t follow the story past the initial reporting and their first impressions of the reporting may be as far as they get in the story.

On the other hand, that can cut the other way as well. People are learning that some of the audio and video footage that’s been put out by ABC and NBC was doctored and that (contrary to initial reports) that the police did in fact take Zimmerman into custody and interrogate him, that they did interview witnesses – including two who said that they saw Martin pounding on Zimmerman, and that the decision not to prosecute was made by the prosecutor rather than the cops. In which case we could see the pendulum swing the other way.

garage mahal said...

Right wing objects to editing of a tape? That's fucking funny, I don't care who you are.

gerry said...

Matt Yglesias likes to make fun of conservatives for believing that the major racial issues facing America are the unfair favoritism that minorities are receiving as well as the possibility that white people will be called racist.

I guess we can add to that the threat to white people from racially based violence from black people.

Those are the three most pressing racial issues in America.


Good heavens, you are getting even goofier.

Fen said...

Oh lookie, Garage is playing with his Tu Quo again.

Lem said...

Going on the little I know.. (and its admittedly very little) I'm remembering a quote from Arthur Conan Doyle that goes something like this..

There comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones.

I ask myself, in this case.. what is a more reasonable explanation of this tragedy?

That Zimmerman went out and premeditatedly sought to kill someone a la Bernhard Goetz?

Or that a young man full of himself (as his tweets attest) thought somebody was following him and thought 'I can take this guy on and kick his ass' a la the youts that tried to mug Bernhard Goetz?

When in the case of Bernhard Goetz the race component was finally stripped away at trial.. Bernhard Goetz was acquitted of the more severe charges and only found guilty of illegally possessing a fire arm.

Matthew said...

"Right wing objects to editing of a tape? That's fucking funny, I don't care who you are."

-- This is an example of actual extensive editing, for those upset and unable to determine that introductory, clearly goofy scenes used to set the mood are not the actual point of videos showing people agreeing to help a man engaged in child prostitution.

Does this help you see how most folks understand the accusation someone "edited the tape?" NBC changed the actual meaning of the tape and left things out without letting people know; O'Keefe put the entire thing online for you to view, with a noted, shortened "just the highlights" version.

Compare, contrast.

Fen said...

madman, who cares if they fire anyone or apologize? why would you trust them again?

Yup. I could write them a letter saying that, based on their recent fraud, I will never watch them again.

But already I did that like 10 years ago.

Again:

"If you found out your stockbroker lied to you about Enron, would you still use him? And yet, people still turn to information brokers like CNN and the NYTs to get the news"

Patrick said...

Right wing objects to editing of a tape

Is there a reason anyone, left or right should not object to the tape? Seems like anyone interested in the truth ought to be upset at the duplicity.

Original Mike said...

Garage defends the indefensible.

Alex said...

Matthew - garage is being his usual deceitful self. He knows exactly what is going on and supports it. The media is totally corrupted and garage feels that he is on the inside.

Pogo said...

I am going to watch NBC for 10 minutes tonight just so I can quit watching them again.

Fen said...

Mathew, Garage only digests information in soundbytes. You'll have to come up with a shorter rebuttal, even better if it rhymes.

Alex said...

Fen - the average person watching NBC would not know it's a doctored tape. They will just assume Zimmerman is a racist. Which is the entire goal.

DADvocate said...

Oh lookie, Garage is playing with his Tu Quo again.

He reminds me of Pee Wee Herman, "I know you are, but what am I?" I've heard garage and Pee Wee prefer similar activities in movie theaters too.

Patrick said...

One would think that it is quite easy to distinguish between editing for style as opposed to altering the substance.

"He didn't wear the pimp costume! He didn't wear the pimp costume!"

beast said...

ScottM--The Walgreens raid might have been oppurtunistic theft but it was thought up and/or executed by more than three people in an affray.And the first response out of the roving little groups of juveniles when confronted by authority was "What the F you going to do about it B"And I'm only about forty years older than them.

Fen said...

Well, it will be interesting to see if NBC puts their correction at the bottom left of page A18.

Alex said...

Tradguy wants all of us to bow and scrape before Al Sharpton.

garage mahal said...

Mathew, Garage only digests information in soundbytes. You'll have to come up with a shorter rebuttal, even better if it rhymes.

Oh please. The right wing gladly gets behind editing of tapes to destroy people if it suits their purposes. Their Soul Mate, and hero, was the biggest practitioner of it.

X said...

NBC was the home of the great Bonanza which tried to promote racial harmony. In the 1960's. Times change.

Fen said...

Hehe, touched a nerve with the soundbyte ad hom, eh?

Garage: The right wing gladly gets behind editing of tapes to destroy people if it suits their purposes

"One of these things is not like the other..."

But go ahead, pretend away.

Aridog said...

Andy R .... I gather from your comments that you're living in the USA now (again?). You might want to update your Google Resume, if you know what I mean .... 'cause as it is now, you certainly would have no idea of black/white race relations of any sort.

Now, me, I've lived several places around the world, so I recognize that as a value....however, I have lived mostly in and around Detroit where I was born, and given that, I suspect I have a much finer feel for black/white relations that you do. 1967 certainly was a banner year, one where I drove to work in the inner city every day, armed to the teeth, for very good reason (42 deaths reported, more in fact) as, yes, there really were marauding black bands, killing people, and being killed.

Funny how, even with that, I had more black freinds in the 60's and 70's than white, how I still love this place warts and all, and still find the majority of the city population to be rather ordinary, more like me than not. Yep their are the noise makers, like Malik Shabazz, but somehow we still get by in peace.

Your condescension doesn't compliment you.

PS: what is in the water today, I keep running off at the mouth ... OMG, it's Biden disease!!

Revenant said...

Their Soul Mate, and hero, was the biggest practitioner of it.

Michael Moore is our soulmate?

Ew.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Where does Mr. Zimmerman go to get his reputation back?

Same place Richard Jewell and the Duke la crosse players had to go. Deja vu all over again.

Personally, I think that the media members could all be shot, bagged and thrown into the ocean and the world would be a better place.

edutcher said...

Lem said...

When in the case of Bernhard Goetz the race component was finally stripped away at trial.. Bernhard Goetz was acquitted of the more severe charges and only found guilty of illegally possessing a fire arm.

The weapons charge came several rounds after the original trial, when the Lefties didn't get the verdict they wanted.

It was what they had to settle for. Today, he'd be charged with "hate crimes" and "civil rights violations".

As, I fear Mr Zimmernam will, when the don't get the verdict they want (after which, of course, will come the customary race riots in which half the black part of Miami is burned to the ground).

Dust Bunny Queen said...

While the use of Zimmerman's last name is meant depersonalize him.

And hide the fact that he is half Hispanic.

If his name was Jorge Gonzalez.....do you think we would even be having this discussion?

Freder Frederson said...

while the young man who did the killing is always referred to by his last name "Zimmerman" - thus emphasizing his white heritage.

As opposed to his very Hispanic sounding first name--George.

bagoh20 said...

I've made mistakes, and I don't know as much as I wish I did, and I have no real talent to speak of, but at least I'm not an MSM journalist. So I'm not all bad.

Alex said...

Freder - your side is just plain evil.

Alex said...

Some things are just WRONG. Doctoring a tape like this offends every sensibility I know.

Freder Frederson said...

Freder - your side is just plain evil.

Who exactly is my side?

Scott M said...

Who exactly is my side?

The side that claims to know when a wound is or isn't a gash.

Freder Frederson said...

If his name was Jorge Gonzalez.....do you think we would even be having this discussion?

Probably not. I doubt the cops would have done the cursory investigation and believed everything "Jorge" said. He would have at least spent the night in jail and his self-defense story would have been met with skepticism.

Andy R. said...

Looks like Hatman's doing his ow little walkback right in front of our eyes.

If someone makes up a position that I don't actually believe and I say that I don't actually believe it, that's not a walkback.

Alex said...

Issues like this really clarify who is decent and who is not. It's good to know in a crazy world sometimes.

Lem said...

On balance.. the purported racism attributed to Zimmerman with the aid of what NBC could only have been thinking fake but accurate editing.. is way less detrimental than what NBC seems to have done here.

NBC took steps to do this.. it was not like a Zimmerman reacting on the fly.. although it would be beneficial to find out if Zimmerman had received any training..

NBC is part of a giant corporation that presumably has guidelines.. a corporation that shouldn't even be compared to what could a citizen may or may not be thinking at what can only be described as a stressful situation.

NBC is going to have to do something to make this right.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Freder Frederson said...

Issues like this really clarify who is decent and who is not. It's good to know in a crazy world sometimes

The debates over torture of detainees clarified who is decent and who is not. On that point, both Althouse and Reynolds showed that they were despicable.

And Reynolds' comments on this case, shows that he is still despicable.

edutcher said...

Freder Frederson said...

while the young man who did the killing is always referred to by his last name "Zimmerman" - thus emphasizing his white heritage.

As opposed to his very Hispanic sounding first name--George.


As opposed to the very Hispanic Alberto Fujimori, former President of Peru.

Or the even more Hispanic, Alfredo Stroessner, former President of Paraguay

Andy R. said...

Looks like Hatman's doing his own little walkback right in front of our eyes.

If someone makes up a position that I don't actually believe and I say that I don't actually believe it, that's not a walkback.


After all the whining he's done about how white people fear black people and how white people are killing black people, yeah, it's a walkback.

traditionalguy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Alex...I do not bow to Al Sharpton. The old fool is temporarily empowered by a stage which would not exist but for the crafty cover up.

He and the liberal media can be stopped the day the evidence is presented to the public by the Authorities whose job it is.

Why do you bow to the Zimmerman family, as Seminole County has done, and argue to prevent that evidence from being presented in court under cross examination?

The Zimmermans are the ones playing everyone with crafty tales of being the victims that are facing violence, and stating that is already the guilt of everybody who wants to see an end to the cover up.

They are ahead of the curve with a guilt acccusation like an advance blood libel. What are they really afraid of coming out?

And why do you care?

Revenant said...

My theory is that t-guy ran out of silly right-wing beliefs to defend and was forced to branch out to the Left.

Lem said...

Andy R is learning an old lesson..

Not wise to rush to judgement.

Its ironic that the defence offered by civil rights militants against the police in the OJ case.. is pretty much the one they are failing to follow in this case..

The police rushed to judge OJ.. black leaders said.. and now those leaders are rushing to judge Zimmerman.

It can only lead to one conclusion.. the politicisation of tragedy continues unabated.. despite the sought mitigation of the election of the one.

bagoh20 said...

'Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population."

When it does happen, blacks are the ones who suffer the most violence, not whites. Then their neighborhood becomes radioactive to business investment and jobs, and race relations again get set back years, which also mostly hurts blacks.

As demonstrated by your comment, you couldn't care less about it. That's very left of you.

After all that damage is done to black communities, you can tell them to vote for people like you who really care about them.

edutcher said...

Remember that "expert" somebody named Icepick was touting?

Well, off Insta, is some more info.

He's not a forensics guy and he's got software to promote.

Pogo said...

When the economic facts are against you, argue about racism.

When health care turns against you, argue about racism.

When both are against you, start a race riot.

Alex said...

Remember where in America the "no-go" zones are. They sure aren't gated communities. You won't get mugged in one.

Alex said...

tradguy - no it's fools like you that empower fools like Sharpton.

wildswan said...

Well I gotta say that I thought Trayvon was a young kid shot in the back by one of those racist nuts I know exist and the murder covered up by some Southern police department. Come to find out he was a six-foot-tall football player who wanted people to think he was tough and who was shot from the front during a struggle with a Jewish-Hispanic man of about the same size and weight who had African-American relatives and friends. And the police wanted to prosecute.

Steve Koch said...

It is interesting that TradGuy completely changes his tune re: Zimmerman on the same day the NYT orchestrates the lefty reversal on Z man. TradGuy is still maintaining that the local police perpetrated some kind of cover up. Hmm.

For Althouse:this reversal by the NYT was inevitable (as I predicted a few days ago) as soon as the left figured out that Z man is hispanic, not white. The only surprising thing is that it took so long for the NYT to retool its propaganda.

The NYT, under the beyond lefty partisan leadership of Punch Sulzburger, provides the intellectual leadership for the lefty propaganda machine and sets the daily news agenda for the various lefty MSM outlets (i.e. most of TV and print news). The NYT "change of heart" will ripple through the remainder of lefty media very rapidly.

This was so easy to predict.

AJ Lynch said...

I have the TV on and tuned to the NBC national nightly news. Let's see if Brian Williams mentions the deceptive editing?

Nah- he led off by promoing 4-5 stories but no mention of the deceptive editing. Maybe, he will sneak it in at the end of the show. Williams is just another MSM pussy.

Ken said...

garage,

Right wing objects to editing of a tape? That's fucking funny, I don't care who you are.

There is a difference between editing videos to make it seem something that didn't happen actually happened. I suspect you think that's what happened with Breitbart and ACORN, as well as Breitbart and Shirley Sherrod. However, when he released the full, unedited videos, the videos didn't provide context or explain away the awfulness of ACORN or Sherrod.

The editing of the Zimmerman tape was specifically to make Zimmerman look like a racist. There is a big difference between:

"this guy looks like he's up to no good, he looks black."

and

"Zimmerman said, 'this guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.'

The 911 dispatcher then asked Zimmerman, 'OK, and this guy, is he black, white or Hispanic?'

Zimmerman replied, 'He looks black.'"

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Right wing objects to editing of a tape? That's fucking funny, I don't care who you are.


And your lack of intellectual honesty, coherence, and rational thought continues unabated.

chickenlittle said...

The Trayvon story didn't flow into the American mainstream like it was supposed to do. It was supposed to breech still-existing divides and wash away recent threats to new levies.

The Trayvon story was meant to rechannel the racial narrative but instead it just pooled and eddied. The damage will be repaired--without reparations.

The potential still exists for another Trayvon story--maybe even a real one with a "better" narrative. Nothing changes in some people's minds. Nothing will change in some people's minds until every last fair-skinned descendant is thoroughly chastened for the nation's second original sin.

Maguro said...

Probably not. I doubt the cops would have done the cursory investigation and believed everything "Jorge" said. He would have at least spent the night in jail and his self-defense story would have been met with skepticism.

Really, that's how it would've gone down if he'd half Hispanic (dad side) instead of half Hispanic (mom side)? Where did you glean that amazing piece of knowledge, did it come in through your tin-foil hat?

PS - The cops didn't believe everything he said, it was the DA who made the call not to prosecute because he didn't they had enough evidence to convict Zimmerman. And guess what - They don't!

J.R. said...

I would really like to see a discussion of what legally defines "public figure." Reynolds surely knows, so his reference is probably valid. But Zimmerman is only a public figure because the press has demonized him. It doesn't seem fair, and I know fairness is VERY important to progressives.

chickenlittle said...

...and I know fairness is VERY important to progressives.

They are obsessed with complexion.

Fen said...

I know fairness is VERY important to progressives.

Fen's Law: The Left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture the rest of us about.

David said...

If I see a young man in a hoodie in an isolated area I am immediately wary. It does not matter if the wearer is black or white.

My very liberal girlfriend from Chicago said she always went the other way when she saw a group of adolescent males at night, whether it was a group of blacks or whites.

She was and is a very smart and sensible woman.

Fen said...

Stupid FOX news is about to buy-in to the "expert" voice analysis floater.

Ya know, there was a time you could count on them to provide the information the rest of the media was hiding from you.

Those days are over.

I blame the Greta Chandra/Lacy/Natalie underwear sniffing rubberneck. Along with the innane and senseless "Five" and "Red Eye".

And they're still using the photo of Martin as a 12yr old.

Morons.

CWJ said...

Ken @5:41

OMG. Is that really the actual transcript compared to the NBC edit? That may be the most obvious case of Big Lie propaganda that I have ever seen in American "journalism". Wow, I still can't believe it!

Kchiker said...

This discussion sure did get ugly....

garage mahal said...

Stupid FOX news is about to buy-in to the "expert" voice analysis floater.

What is your problem with the voice analyst's conclusion?

Sigivald said...

Garage said:
Oh please. The right wing gladly gets behind editing of tapes to destroy people if it suits their purposes. Their Soul Mate, and hero, was the biggest practitioner of it.

I'm glad to find further confirmation that I'm not on the "Right Wing", since I have no idea who their "Soul Mate" is - and equally no idea what alleged editing you're actually talking about.

Citation, please?

Who is this Soul Mate, and what did he edit to that end, exactly?

Patrick Ryan said...

Dear Professor Althouse,

Had the Police Chief and the State's Attorney acted as professionals from the start, there would be no "looming race riots". Had there been an arrest and a grand jury presentment, with or without an indictment, none of us would know of Trayvon or George.

I'd love to know what circumstances brought these two clowns to the scene that night. Something smells.

willem said...

The gloriously absurd "White Hispanic" was the gaudiest reach yet by the carpetbagger classes. Funny though, that led us to collectively realize we had a "White African" in the White House.

Funnier still, a more correct construction of this frenologĂ­a frito de nuevo would be 'White Hispanolas;" begging the performance of an implicitly hysterical musical satire that (with a little luck) would inspire Eric Idle to arise from retirement with Cleese in tow, mugging a likeness of il Duce del Fascismo in blackpantherface with Farrakhan a fiddling.

Matthew said...

"I'd love to know what circumstances brought these two clowns to the scene that night. Something smells."

-- Martin was walking back to where he was visiting, and presumably lost since he was new to the area. Zimmerman was on his way home and saw someone who was acting in a way you don't associate with people in a neighborhood they know.

Think about walking in a parking lot; there are behaviors you expect and those you don't. Someone walking between cars, moving toward a given destination is behaving "as normal," as is a woman standing by the driver's side of a car digging through her purse. A guy who is walking someone in the parking lot, weaving between lanes and looking in cars is acting suspicious. He may have a legitimate reason, someone said they were coming to pick him up, but he doesn't know what car they drive, etc. Likewise, someone just standing near an entrance or an exit might be acting like you expect, checking their watch, looking to see if a bus/ride has shown up. But if there's someone in a parking lot, leaning against one of the pillars watching people as they walk out, that's not normal.

Unfortunately, in this case, Martin's behavior was because he was lost, not because he was a criminal. From there, bad decisions on everyone's part escalated an already tense situation.

That's what brought them there. Mistakes.

----

"What is your problem with the voice analyst's conclusion?"

-- He doesn't have a sample of Zimmerman screaming help me to compare against should be a big one.

Alex said...

At worst this whole deal is a tragedy, but the left wants to turn it into a full-blown race war.

Matthew said...

Er. Also, if as I'm seeing now, this guy is not really an expert and... well, two recordings of Nixon only turn back an 85% rate, I'd say that anything less than an 85% rate is useless.

We know the two recordings are both the same person in the Nixon example cited via Instapundit. Yet, they only get an 85% match.

So... yeah.

It's almost like the media has yet to learn that if it is too good to be true, then it is.

CWJ said...

Willem

LOL beautiful

Revenant said...

Regarding the term "white Hispanic":

What is funny about it isn't the term itself, but that the news media only just now discovered it.

"Hispanic" isn't a racial group and never has been. The overwhelming majority of Hispanics are white, although there is a substantial black minority (a legacy of the slave trade, same as here).

Of course, this little fact tends to get forgotten; it conflicts with the "you either love illegal immigrants or you're a racist" narrative.

JAL said...

What is your problem with the voice analyst's conclusion?

Oh Garage. Did you have your buddies do your homework in middle school, too?

Christopher in MA said...

The debates over torture clarified who is decent and who is not.

And yet you still fellate your Little Black Jesus, who hasn't changed an iota of the "torture" you wank yourself raw over when it comes to the right.

I know Hat and garbage are the internet equivalent of a homeless bum shiting his pants and screaming about the Bilderbergers, Freddie, but the rest of us are a bit more intelligent. Go peddle your selective outrage at the Kos pigsty.

Lem said...

The damage will be repaired--without reparations.

Make way.. Chikenlit coming though..

Lem said...

I meant coming through..

ricpic said...

hatboy said...

Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

Stunned! Stunned! The dumb bunny actually stumbled into the truth.

Lem said...

..thus supporting a libel action even though Zimmerman is a public figure.

Its a trap!

shhhh!

traditionalguy said...

Patrick Ryan @6:25... Thanks for weighing in cogently. You seem to get it.

I belive you meant that you wanted to know what brought the Police Chief and the States Attorney to the scene that night acting like two clowns and not as Professionals would act.

Just to irritate my friend Dr Spock-Revenant, what if Zimmerman, Sr is in Federal witness protection of some sort.

The father somehow has told the locals what he expects for them to do and someone made a call to to the Florida higher ups who showed up did it. One of whom has oddly gone on leave and washed his hands of the case in favor of Feds.

Also Zimmerman Sr seemed to have a good legal mind, and he definitely has a good PR advisor, and he has never been shown on camera and he has been taken to a secret location.

Revenant said...

Had there been an arrest and a grand jury presentment, with or without an indictment, none of us would know of Trayvon or George.

An arrest for what?

I'm not in favor of arresting people on trumped-up charges just to keep a bunch of racially-obsessed lowlifes happy. If that's what it takes to have "racial harmony" then you'll need to explain why racial harmony is a goal non-black Americans should be interested in.

garage mahal said...

Oh Garage. Did you have your buddies do your homework in middle school, too?

I'll go out on a limb and say that if this voice analyst said it was Zimmerman, Instapundit, you, and everyone else on the right would be his biggest backer. Drudge would have the red sirens going off, and this guy would be living in the Fox studios. I'm not saying the left isn't tribal, but you guys are as predictable as the sun rising in the east.

Matthew said...

"I'll go out on a limb and say that if this voice analyst said it was Zimmerman, Instapundit, you, and everyone else on the right would be his biggest backer. Drudge would have the red sirens going off, and this guy would be living in the Fox studios. I'm not saying the left isn't tribal, but you guys are as predictable as the sun rising in the east."

-- Just like that Heritage memo was totally not fake or stolen, right?

People on both sides get suckered easily. Here, at least (and on most blogs like Hot Air and Ace), conservatives are well, more conservative and tend to wait. Moe Lane, too, seems very reserved before buying whatever comes out.

It is a skill the right has learned after having their trust abused time and time again, such as the Duke Lacrosse case.

The media does the left no favors by cocooning them in safety from dissenting ideas and facts. When it does that, you get the fallout we had last week where the left realizes: "My God, some people don't actually agree the mandate is constitutional!" when they hear arguments that have been being made for nearly two years.

Matthew said...

In other proof that suckers are everywhere: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/banker-1-tip-hoax-real-receipt-obtained-195827093.html

Another perfect example of the media being dished up exactly what they want, getting it, and running with it without a cursory fact check.

Lem said...

..but you guys are as predictable as the sun rising in the east.

Last time I checked.. people get fed on predictability.. predictability is a good thing.. when was the last time you did anything without making a prediction in no uncertain terms as to the outcome of the endeavor?

gadfly said...

Let me recommend that everyone read all of Tom Maguire's posts on his JustOneMinute blog that relates to the Martin-Zimmerman fiasco. Very informative, well researched stuff that kept me reading for more than an hour this afternoon.

DADvocate said...

garage is really pissed his side got caught lying. Again.

bagoh20 said...

and again.

Dante said...

Just an observation.

In the Duke Lacrosse case it was obvious to a lot of people, oddly mostly conservative, that the DA and liberal press were railroading white people of privilege because it suited their narrative.

The similarity here is that again we can see the press is all about a narrative leftists want to promote, for self serving interests.

The difference is the way the conservatives are behaving. They aren't saying Zimmerman is innocent. They are saying they don't know. Leftists want this to be about Zimmerman's guilt, or failure of the system to prove his guilt, in order to advance their agenda, and they seem prepared to go pretty far in order to do so.

bgates said...

you guys are as predictable as the sun rising in the east

I saw Lem quoting this but didn't scroll back up to see where it came from - was it Garage proposing a counterfactual that would have made the right look bad if it had happened?

garage mahal said...

garage is really pissed his side got caught lying. Again

Like I said, if ABC were reporting what you wanted to hear, or if the voice analyst was saying what you wanted to hear, you'd be banging on the drum all day.

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal rote: Like I said, if ABC were reporting what you wanted to hear, or if the voice analyst was saying what you wanted to hear, you'd be banging on the drum all day.

Is that what motivated the protesters in Madison last spring--hearing what they wanted to hear made them bang on the drum all day?

Henry said...

bgates wrote was it Garage proposing a counterfactual that would have made the right look bad if it had happened?

Yes. And here he is.

chickenlittle said...

@garage: I thought it was more a matter of this: link

PackerBronco said...

The honesty needed for Garage Mahal to criticize his own side is just not in his make-up.

That's why in the end, his posts have very little respect on this blog.

Oh, we'll respond to him, but because he lacks integrity, people will not treat him as a serious commentator.

Lem said...

I have no idea what garage might have meant..

I just predictably slammed him ;)

William said...

I don't know the circumstances of the shooting. Zimmerman's story seems credible, but I don't know.... In the world of factuals, I don't think there is any credible information that Zimmerman is a racist. But there is a wealth of information that indicates that the media is trying to portray him as a racist. Not just this edited NBC tape. CNN claims that in some other tape, Zimmerman can be heard calling Trayvon a "coon". When you listen to the tape, you can hear no such thing. It's indicepherable. I don't know the race of the 911 operator, and my bet is neither did Zimmerman. It doesn't make sense that he would be using that kind of language....But it's now the accepted narrative that Zimmerman called Trayvon a coon and that he spotted him because he was black and wearing a hoodie. These things are just not true, and they have been used to poison the case against Zimmerman.

William said...

If you look up the histories of the Dreyfus, Sacco & Vanzetti, and Alger Hiss cases, you will see that the evidence is irrelevant. It's like a religion. People believe what they want to believe, and no evidence will shake their opinions.

Lawyer Mom said...

MSNBC, et al. made George Zimmerman into a public figure by falsely reporting about him, and they can't later hide behind that higher public-figure standard when he sues them for defamation (or would it be "false light," assuming FL recognizes that cause of action?). His burden of proof in a defamation action is the least of his worries, right now.

As for the voice "expert," why all the MSM coverage when it undercuts the Martin-family version? The funeral director said Martin had not a mark on him (save for the gunshot wound) which totally supports Zimmerman's claim that Martin was the aggressor (and so Zimmerman must have been the screamer).

Much ado, much ado.

The bigger story is the arbitraging of Martin's death by leaders in the African American community -- including Obama and his buy-my-hoodie-show-your-team tweet -- and the complete and utter absence of outrage from the AA community.

garage mahal said...

The honesty needed for Garage Mahal to criticize his own side is just not in his make-up.

The voice analyst is on my side? ABC News? WTF? Trying to decipher winger code is getting harder and harder.

Lem said...

What garage is trying to say, if I read between the lines.. 'its not often my side is in retreat this badly.. ever since the Fluke flop.. followed by the Supremes Oral fizzle.. and now (the old reliable racial play) Trayvon/Zimmerman tumult is turning into a major embarrassing tangle'...

So yea.. where was I?

its not everyday.. whatever.

Chip Ahoy said...

Matthew, he has been told that at least a dozen times. I've seen it. Okay, fine, three times. Okay fine, once before. My point is that it doesn't matter how many times that ridiculous comparison is debunked, it is thought useful as a nettle so you'll see it over and over X ∞.

Fen said...

Patrick: Had the Police Chief and the State's Attorney acted as professionals from the start, there would be no "looming race riots".

They did act professional. You simply didn't get the result you want because nothing Zimmerman did was actionable under the law.

The DA, who knows Florida law much better than you, looked at the evidence and witness statements and determined Zimmerman acted in self-defense.

The "looming race riots" are not a result of the DAs actions. They are the result of the media distorting the facts to gin up the Perpetually Indignant.

Revenant said...

The fact that garage is forced to resort to criticizing *hypothetical* bad behavior on our part says it all, really.

Lem said...

The Lefts favorite pejorative for the right when the right is in power (as the left is now) is overreach.

Can we at least.. at the very least say that the left has overreached?

That in itself is not a discovery like a new specie or something.. but that they are getting caught is what is surprising me.

Fen said...

What is your problem with the voice analyst's conclusion?

1) They consulted 12 analysts and only used 2 of them for their story. Guess why?

2) Actual experts in the field say that you need the subject to provide a record of his own voice using the same words and tone that you are testing against. Your experts didn't do that.

3) The Chronicle claims its not a match, when its actually 48% (again, likely because of point #2). So simply don't trust them, especially after the way the CBS experts were deliberately misrepresented to back up Dan Rather. We've seen this game played out before.

4) Its unscientific. Instead of saying "its only a 48% match of Zimmerman so by elimination it must be Martin", they should have tested against Martin's voice. I'll wager they would have returned a result less than 48%.

Lem said...

The fact that garage is forced to resort to criticizing *hypothetical* bad behavior on our part says it all, really.

Garage was trying to pull a broccoli out of the hat.

DADvocate said...

What is your problem with the voice analyst's conclusion?

Let's start with his credentials, or lack there of.

Tom Owen. Is he really a "forensics expert?"
Well, no. He has a B.A. in History, not forensics.

Well, surely since he's an expert, he went to Harvard or Yale or Oxford, right?
Well, no he went to Bellarmine College in Kentucky. You've heard of Bellarmine College, right?
......
What about his wife Jennifer Owen ... surely she's a hotshot FBI forensics examiner, right?
No, she makes Powerpoint presentations and is a secretary with a political science degree, not a forensics degree.

But surely they have an advanced forensic acoustics laboratory where they conduct their forensic analysis right?
No, they just have a computer in the basement of their house in New Jersey right next to the railroad tracks.

But surely he's a member of the American Board of Recorded Evidence?
Yes, but he and his wife run the Board. He's the chairman, and she's a board member. The Board is run out of a weight-loss clinic in Springfield, Missouri along with a bunch of other dubious "boards," "colleges" and "Institutes."
American Board for Certification in Homeland Security‎ - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
American Association for Integrative Medicine Inc - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
American College of Forensic‎ Examiners International - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MOC
College of Wellness - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
American Psychotherapy Association - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO

There are no colleges or real boards here. There's a fat farm weight loss clinic at that location. They appear to have certified themselves experts by running this board themselves.

Now, let's examine the software they used to perform their analysis. How good is it?

Well, given two KNOWN samples of speech by President Richard M. Nixon, the software only matched two recordings to a 86% match.

Remember, Mr. Owen said he'd expect a 90% match before he concluded that the voices were identical. Although when he's testifying in murder cases, he claims a 68% match is enough to send someone to prison for the rest of their life (CT v Sheila Davalloo). Even in the software makers own demonstration of the product, using two KNOWN samples of speech from the same famous person, there was only an 86% match.

What about the algorithm they're using to make the comparison? How good is it? UNKNOWN. That's proprietary. They won't tell you what they're actually measuring.


The guy's a fraud. But, fraud, as a form of lying, is one of the foundations of left wing thought and ideology.

Original Mike said...

"...was it Garage proposing a counterfactual that would have made the right look bad if it had happened?

Garage is as predictable as the sun rising in the east

.

garage mahal said...


The guy's a fraud. But, fraud, as a form of lying, is one of the foundations of left wing thought and ideology


He could be. But ask yourself, would your reaction been the same had he stated that it *was* Zimmerman? Absolutely fucking not. And you know it.

Pogo said...

Hispanics are learning they're only a partial minority, useful depending on their utility to the issue at hand.

Likely works out to being worth 3/5ths of a real minority.

Pogo said...

Point is, Garage, it's always the left pushing these frauds, in voice analysis and global warming.

You gotta wonder why that is, no?

Fen said...

Garage's "expert"

The Board is run out of a weight-loss clinic in Springfield, Missouri along with a bunch of other dubious "boards," "colleges" and "Institutes."

*snicker*

Lem said...

I guess you could argue that a racist would leave a low speed chase 911 call trail.. and shoot Travon in the chest.. as made clear by the immutable laws of physics, when someone is running away from you and you shoot them.. the bullet turns in mid air and strikes you in the chest.. as proven by the Warren Commission.

Saint Croix said...

So I think we need stronger safegaurds in place to limit the Press.

Are you going to put the Obama Administration in charge of locking up the journalists, Fen? Or were you thinking of roving bands of white vigilantes?

Fen said...

White vigilantes?

Why the racist slip-up there, St Croix?

Oooops...

Rabel said...

One of the things that we know for sure (unless the police are just making things up) is that Zimmerman said as he was put in the police car that he had called out for help and no one helped him. This is from the police report.

For the voice to not be Zimmerman he would have to have precognitively recognized the importance of the help screams and formulated a plan to mislead the law by claiming to be the screamer.

He would have had to do this within minutes of being sucker punched and beat about the head, then shooting and killing a man for the first time in his life, and then being held at gunpoint while still armed by the police, and then being cuffed and placed under arrest.

Possible, but James Bond cool if he did it.
Make that Obama cool.

Fen said...

Nice catch Rabel.

Unknown said...

====Yes, the major racial issue facing our country is the threat of marauding gangs of blacks terrorizing the white population.

You are too young to remember the riots of the 60's. Perhaps you don't remember the Los Angeles riots Detroit's riots started it on its glide path to the third world.

Black people die in race riots, innocent people lose their homes and their businesses.

You are blissfully ignorant that civilization has a thin veneer and the danger of the mob. Unless as a man of the left you would welcome this suffering and devastation.

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