March 21, 2012

Jets... Saints... football news.

Breaking news:
N.F.L. Suspends New Orleans Saints Coach Sean Payton for One Year Over Bounty Program

New York Jets Obtain Tim Tebow in Trade With Denver Broncos

121 comments:

Scott M said...

New York Jets Obtain Tim Tebow in Trade With Denver Broncos

Tebow is going to Gomorrah? Or is New York Sodom and LA is Gomorrah? It's so hard to keep the soon-to-be-smited straight.

MadisonMan said...

And what happens to the Defensive coordinator?

Tim Tebow as a Jet, well that works, I guess. It's not like Sanchez is consistently good.

MadisonMan said...

Aah. Williams is out indefinitely. Saints lose draft picks too.

Beth, I'm sorry.

Henry said...

Manning was an unbelievable gift for John Elway. Thanks to Tebow's huge fan base and one nice string of wins, Elway was almost stuck with building an offense around a quarterback who couldn't make reads and couldn't throw. Manning was the big name alternative he needed to justify getting rid of the big-hearted Tebow.

I don't know what the Jets can possibly be thinking. It's not like Tebow is going to help them beat the Patriots.

Bruce Hayden said...

I don't know what the Jets can possibly be thinking. It's not like Tebow is going to help them beat the Patriots.

I think that the thinking is that he would fit in well with their "wildcat" offense, which they apparently sometimes have used in the past, but less last year, with the loss of Brad Smith.

Joe Schmoe said...

Whoa! Sean Payton gets spanked, hard. Gregg Williams, spanked harder. Even the GM is out for half the season. So yeah; this was worse than Spygate by a factor of 10.

Whoa! Tebow goes to the least-Godly team and city in the US.

Whoa! Record temps in northern part of the country.

IT'S A DAY OF EXTREMES!

~N. said...

Wonder how the Jets fans will react to Tebow...they're a rough crowd.

Wish Manning had come to SF, but Candlestick is not much of an enticement and the new stadium isn't going to be ready 'til 2014 at the earliest.

Scott M said...

Whoa! Tebow goes to the least-Godly team and city in the US.

Ahem...that would be Oakland, not New York.

rick said...

Greg Williams should be preparing for a lifetime ban.

Manning ..... it's tough being a quarterback in the NFL while wearing a neck brace.

garage mahal said...

Not a fan of Tebow or his politics, but he does a lot of behind the scenes stuff for less than fortunate kids that is pretty awesome.

Henry said...

Here's a quick reaction piece on the Jets at ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/11210/rapid-reaction-a-logic-defying-move

The comments are a torrent of snark. For example:

"God is punishing the Jets..."

Patrick said...

Saints lose their second round picks in 2012 and 2013.

This is pretty sever, and it should be. I was disappointed that Payton knew about it, and did nothing. I expected that Williams would be banned for life.

Where is Sanchez going to go? Does Tebow have to beat him out for the starting job?

rick said...

Should have two first rounders.

rick said...

"Should have been"

Patrick said...

I agree with Garage, Tebow does a lot of good things for kids who are seriously sick, and apparently takes a lot of time with them. I think Rick Reilly (probably among others) wrote an article about this in the Tebowmania days. whatever his beliefs, it's nice to see him embrace them, sincerely and un-ironically.

Of course, he will likely fail to live up to them at some point, and will likely fail in a very public way. When that happens, I hope he handles it well. We all screw up. The measure is how you go on after that.

Patrick said...

I agree, Rick.

THe NFL's problem with punishment is that many of the guys who participated in this, and benefited from it are no longer Saints. They should still be punished.

The NCAA has a more difficult time punishing rogue programs. Their punishments usually come a couple of years after the infraction, and hit kids who had nothing to do with it, and don't punish the kids who broke the rules - kids who are often pros by that time. The NCAA is a joke organization, by the way.

David said...

The Saints are Sinners.

The other saint is going to New York.

He and Jeremy Lin can be roommates.

Geoff Matthews said...

I was hoping that Tebow would convert to a tight end/half back/receiver, and drive defenses wild with the constant threat of the flea flicker.
Of course, he'd have to be able to pass well for that threat to stand.

Can we call this racism against the only hispanic quarterback in the NFL?

Jay said...

Other football news...the curious case of former University of Wisconsin associate athletic director John Chadima.

At one point, as they were seated at the corner of a large table in the suite, Chadima told John Doe that he thought that Doe might be gay, and that some of the other student employees thought Doe was gay. Doe told us he felt very uncomfortable and defensive but was not sure what was going on. He said that Chadima reached over and removed Doe's pants belt and then inserted his hand inside Doe's pants on his genitals. Doe reported that he was shocked and frightened and slapped Chadima's hand away and swore at him. He reported that Chadima said, "I thought you liked it" and "What are you going to do about it?" and "I could have you fired." Doe quickly left the room. As he was leaving the room, Doe reported that Chadima seemed to want to gloss over the incident as "just joking around."


John Chadima abruptly resigned on Jan. 6, neither the school nor Chadima offered much explanation.

Kit said...

If you remember the Pack was awfully close to having Payton and Williams as coaches. Phew.

And good of Goodell to bring the hammer down.

David said...

"Not a fan of Tebow or his politics, but he does a lot of behind the scenes stuff for less than fortunate kids that is pretty awesome."

Garage, you are from central casting. Can't praise a guy without a shot at his "politics."

And by the way, doing stuff behind the scenes is how much of the good work gets done in this country. Trumpeting their empathy and compassion is pretty much for lefties. So is doing good with other peoples' money. (And by other people, I mean the poor suckers that are going to have to deal with the massive federal debt in the future.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Not a fan of Tebow or his politics


Oh, please tell us what are Tebow's "politics" again?

Scott M said...

The NCAA is a joke organization, by the way.

You would be to if you had to constantly deal with Title This and Title That.

Patrick said...

Cost Payton $8,000,000.00

David said...

I was hoping the Pack would get Tebow.

Paul Hornung on steroids. (Metaphorical roids of course.)

Tank said...

Saints - Ouch, that hurts. Way more than I thought they'd get. I mean, ouch.

Jets - Well, Giants get the back page by winning the Superbowl every few years. Jets get the back page by ... TEBOW !!!!!! Maybe he could room with Cromartie, help him out with his 9 kids and their 8 mammas.

Patrick said...

Geoff Matthews - I don't think Tebow is going to uh, convert!

David said...

Tebow is against abortion.

That's politics for Garage.

Plus he prays. That's always suspect.

MadisonMan said...

So the players who did don't get penalized?

Original Mike said...

Good for the NFL.

Patrick said...

The players will likely still get penalized, but Goodell needs to run it by the NFLPA in all likelihood.

edutcher said...

Guy should be banned for life

garage mahal said...

Not a fan of Tebow or his politics, but he does a lot of behind the scenes stuff for less than fortunate kids that is pretty awesome.

His politics are why he does the behind the scenes stuff.

Not unlike love and marriage, as the poet said.

Original Mike said...

If players have left for other teams, seems like the only fair way to punish them is a fine, but no suspension. Needs to be a BIG fine.

Bruce Hayden said...

Manning was the big name alternative he needed to justify getting rid of the big-hearted Tebow.

And, Manning is a personally lot closer to Elway than Tebow ever could be.

Denver will surely be different next year, but not sure if it will be that much better.

Growing up in Denver, have always had a love-hate relationship with the team. Father had season tickets before they joined the NFL, etc. And found myself pulling into park a couple of years ago behind one of the stupidist cars ever built - a Porsche SUV. Was parked next to it, and who should step out, but Pat Bowlen and his wife, Annabelle, Sr. (I think that it is their middle daughter who shares her name).

DADvocate said...

Tebow still has the potential to be a topnotch NFL QB with the right coaching and right coach. Mostly improve his passing and decision making. With his athleticism, he doesn't have to be a great passer just average NFL.

Tim said...

"Beth, I'm sorry."

Nice sentiment, but the Saints earned every bit of this, if not more. And what about the Rams? They're entirely innocent, yet they lose their DC? That isn't fair to them, is it (even though as a lifetime 'Niner fan, it's in my DNA to hate the Rams as much as I hate the Cowboys).

"Wish Manning had come to SF, but Candlestick is not much of an enticement and the new stadium isn't going to be ready 'til 2014 at the earliest."

Right. But the silver (scarlet and gold?!) lining is, he obviously isn't serious about wining a championship. Had he been, the 'Niners are obviously much closer to that than either the Titans or Broncos.

Original Mike said...

"Nice sentiment, but the Saints earned every bit of this"

Yeah, but it's not Beth's fault.

garage mahal said...

Tebow is against abortion.

That's politics for Garage.


No that's not it. I'm starting to think your mind reading abilities aren't as good as you think.

Icepick said...

Bounties are an old tradition in the NFL. (Probably in all contact sports.) This is a big deal because the NFL has mounting pressure in the form of law suits from former plpayers about the damage the game does to people. (Go looking for stories from the last few years about Earl Campbell, for example.)

The NFL is trying to show that it is really serious about the level of violence in the game - just this much, and not an erg more.

David said...

So Garage you think abortion is not a political issue.

I'm not reading your mind. I have read your posts.

(Hey, I read them. You write in actual understandable English and don't go on forever. Faithful readers are hard to find, Garage. Be nice to them.)

I Callahan said...

I'm not understanding the thinking in this thread.

You trade away a young, mobile quarterback who's healthy, and sign a quarterback with neck problems who's at the twilight of his career. This is a good decision? One nasty hit and Manning's career is over.

As for the 'Ain'ts, well, I'm not surprised. They don't call it the National Felons League for nothing.

traditionalguy said...

Tebow will have a rough time ahead. The current NY Jets team, coaches and fans are not going to accept Tebow's faith in himself and God style one bit.

All that makes sense to me is that the Jets want Tebow to draw away the media spotlight from Ryan long enough for the team to get over Ryan's strange song and dance.

Icepick said...

One nasty hit and Manning's career is over.

One nasty hit and ANYONE's career is over. See Napolean McCallum, for instance.

damikesc said...

It's not like Sanchez is good.

Fixed that for you, MM.

Manning was an unbelievable gift for John Elway. Thanks to Tebow's huge fan base and one nice string of wins, Elway was almost stuck with building an offense around a quarterback who couldn't make reads and couldn't throw. Manning was the big name alternative he needed to justify getting rid of the big-hearted Tebow.

Let's just hope that their Swiss cheese OL, mediocre receivers, and a QB who nobody knows if he actually has his game back will be enough. If Manning makes it the entire season, I'll be a bit surprised.

Not a fan of Tebow or his politics, but he does a lot of behind the scenes stuff for less than fortunate kids that is pretty awesome.

Which is why a lot of the hate he gets annoys me. He is, legitimately, one of the most decent guys in the NFL. There isn't a lot to really hate there...unless you just don't like his faith.

He is a decent QB who will do well when a coach decides to design a game plan around his strengths. But most coaches don't want to go through the effort to do so.

Original Mike said...

"You trade away a young, mobile quarterback who's healthy, and sign a quarterback with neck problems who's at the twilight of his career. This is a good decision?"

Well, by most reports, Tebow just isn't any good. Old and good trumps young and bad.

I think it says a lot about Denver's opinion of Tebow's potential (or lack thereof) that, having obtained Manning, they didn't keep Tebow for grooming under the old veteran. Though, it might have been a budgetary necessity. Don't know about that.

damikesc said...

Well, by most reports, Tebow just isn't any good. Old and good trumps young and bad.

Tebow is a winner. He is quite good in the clutch. He wasn't exactly blessed with a wealth of talent around him.

He is not a conventional QB and NFL coaches aren't usually willing to put forth the effort to design a gameplan that emphasizes their strengths (college coaches have to do so by default).

The first coach who actually works with Tebow's strengths will unleash an All Pro.

Ryan, however, is not likely to be that guy.

Joe Schmoe said...

Bruce Hayden, you're not sure the Broncos will be better with Manning? Manning is worth at least 3-4 more wins for that team. I'm looking at somewhere in the range of 10-6 to 12-4 for the Broncos next year. They will be vastly improved. And I'm a Patriots fan.

traditionalguy said...

The Carolina Panthers were also in the Saint's division. So a "hit contract " was put out by NO owner and management and coach to injure Cam Newton.


That came after the Saints had been double warned to stop doing it.

So should Sean Payton's knees be smashed and Drew Breeze's hands be smashed on contracts the Panthers put out to the NO Mafia?

If not, why not?

IMO the NO NFL Franchise should have been be revoked, and then a new one sold for enough money to fund a Disabled NFL Retired Players Trust.

Sorun said...

"Peyton Manning Re-Injures Neck Saying No To Titans"

LOL. Onion headline.

Icepick said...

Though, it might have been a budgetary necessity. Don't know about that.

That wouldn't have mattered. Tim is cheap. He's scheduled to make about $2,000,000 next season, aobut $2.25 mil the season after that, and about $2.5 mil in the final year of his contract. Not sure how many of those years are guaranteed, but Tebow is a pretty cheap QB.

garage mahal said...

@David
Truth be known I am pretty squeamish about abortion. Being anti-abortion alone is not enough for me to dislike someone or their views.

Curious George said...

Saints penalty reminds me of when the Packers did the same thing but worse. Forrest Gregg allowed players to actually put opposing players (Bears) numbers on their sideline towels, one actually had in his waist...and that player, Charles Martin, intentionally grabbed Bears QB Jim McMahon, threw him to the ground, and dislocated his shoulder. McMahon was out for the season, and the Bears chance at a repeat Super Bowl was gone. Martin got only a two week suspension, nothing was done to Gregg.

There were a number of instances in the prior year...Ken Stills hit on Matt Suey was one.

The Packer were a bunch of thugs under Gregg.

Original Mike said...

"Tim is cheap."

So it does say what the Broncos, who saw him up close and personal for a season, think of his potential.

Lyle said...

What about the other bounty programs in the NFL?

Hope they investigate each and every one.

MadisonMan said...

He is, legitimately, one of the most decent guys in the NFL.

Donald Driver!

Icepick said...

He is not a conventional QB and NFL coaches aren't usually willing to put forth the effort to design a gameplan that emphasizes their strengths (college coaches have to do so by default).

The first coach who actually works with Tebow's strengths will unleash an All Pro.


First, it isn't just about game plans. It is about building the entire offense to take advantage of a QB's strengths. Tebow is an outlier, and building a whole offense around him when (a) you can't get a back-up that plays like him and (b)you don't know when he's going to take on the wrong linebacker and get knocked out of the game (or even season) is a huge risk.

There are only a handful of QBs in the NFL that play a similar game to Tebow. Vick and Cam Newton are the two that leap to mind readily, and both have vastly superior arms to Tebow.

Add in that Tebow is a lefty, and it makes the personel challenges even greater. (Actually, Tebow would have been best off in Philly backing up Vick and learning from Reid.)

Additionally, option games don't work that well in the NFL over time. The Wild Cat (as started in Miami a few seasons ago) had a brief run of success, but it has had diminishing returns as opposing coaches got more game film and time to prep. At the NFL level the talent pool is too deep, the coaching is too good, and the players are too fast for an option game to work for long.

Hell, even the difference in he hash marks from the college level to the NFL level makes a difference - they effectively make the field easier for a defense to cover from side-line to side-line.

I'm a UF grad, and I watched almost every game Tebow played in college. He's one of the all-time greats at the college level. At the pro-level he has bad mechanics, a slow, protracted release and poor accuracy. (He's more accurate on the move.)

Tebow, with work and coaching, can perhaps be a servicable QB in the NFL. The idea that he is going to be great is delusional. And yes, I saw those games of his last season. Watch them objectively and you will see that Tebow had some good momoents, but had long stretches of inept play, and needed a LOT of help from a lot of different people to win some of those games.

I know the magic - I've seen it and cheered for it and loved it. But magic is not going to get a team to the Supere Bowl, talent honed through hard work will.

(And don't forget that the AFC was very weak last year - the eventual AFC champion only beat one team with a winning record last year. They beat Denver twice, BTW.)

Curious George said...

More dirty play under Forrest Gregg's thuggish Packers:

Mark Lee throwing Walter Peyton over the bench and the aforementioned Charles Martin.

Icepick said...

So it does say what the Broncos, who saw him up close and personal for a season, think of his potential.

Yep.

And I forgot to mention: John Fox DID tailor the Bronco game plans to Tebow's strength. At first they kept a tight leash on him, but they eased it up as the season went on a Tim showed what he could do. It wasn't easy, and if Tebow had been knocked out and they had to go with Brady Quinn at any point (which would have really sucked for the Broncos!) then their game plan would have been useless.

NFL coaches all tend to do the same things because after decades of practice and refinement they pretty much know what works and what doesn't work LONG TERM. Things like the K-Gun and the Bengals old Sugar huddle system can work for a while, IF you've got all the right personnel, but it is impossible to maintain that stuff for long. And even those variants are largely just refinements on systems long in place.

David said...

Garage: Does being "pretty squeamish" about abortion mean that you would allow abortion to be banned? Regulated? Or should we just have a resolution declaring it icky?

But I accept your word that abortion isn't why you don't like Tebo's "politics."

So it's the prayers, right?

Original Mike said...

"He's more accurate on the move"

I'm better when I move - The Sundance Kid

David said...

Tebo would make a great halfback. I expect to see him in that role a lot.

Curious George said...

"Icepick said...

Hell, even the difference in he hash marks from the college level to the NFL level makes a difference - they effectively make the field easier for a defense to cover from side-line to side-line."

Actually it's the opposite. The NFL went to the tighter hash marks to open up offenses, allowing them room to run plays either way.

Icepick said...

I'm better when I move - The Sundance Kid

I almost added that quote and decided that maybe no one would get it!

Joe Schmoe said...

Curious George, I love your posts, man, but to hear a Bears fan whine about another team's rough play is too rich.

Curious George said...

"Joe Schmoe said...
Curious George, I love your posts, man, but to hear a Bears fan whine about another team's rough play is too rich."

We are not talking about rough play. The examples shown were all intentional, unnecessary, and intended to injure. The Bears-Packers rivalry is what it is because of the physical nature of the play. Under Forrest Gregg it went to the level of thuggery.

garage mahal said...

@David
Tebow embraces orgs like anti-gay crusaders Focus on the Family. Big time frauds in my opinion, who willfully misrepresent research. YMMW

Icepick said...

Actually it's the opposite. The NFL went to the tighter hash marks to open up offenses, allowing them room to run plays either way.

That was the thinking, but look at the geometry of the field. The CBs and safeties covering the far hash mark are now closer to the action if it heads away from them. Add in the greater speed (on average) of NFL players to college players for an even shorter effective distance. Any play that gets drawn out even a little is going to allow for a faster close to the point of attack.

The counter to that is that in the NFL the players are generally much more disciplined about sticking to their assignments. Still, it's a game of inches, and DB that runs a 4.5 40 yard dash can cover 32 inches a second. Those fractions of a second add up quickly, too.

Icepick said...

Damn, I miss football season!

Joe Schmoe said...

Icepick, excellent analysis. The Broncos got a lot of breaks last year, and they have the best young placekicker in the league. That guy is money.

Joe Schmoe said...

CG, what about Buddy Ryan's defenses? They were physically superior, but they also weren't out there playing pat-a-cake, either. They made my man Tony Eason turtle like a bitch in SBXX.

Ryan's Eagles teams of the early 1990s were considered some of the dirtiest teams of the modern era. Where do you think Gregg Williams learned his tricks from? His mentor, Buddy Ryan.

Original Mike said...

"I almost added that quote and decided that maybe no one would get it!"

I use that quote all the time. Very few people get it.

Curious George said...

"Icepick said...
Actually it's the opposite. The NFL went to the tighter hash marks to open up offenses, allowing them room to run plays either way.

That was the thinking, but look at the geometry of the field. The CBs and safeties covering the far hash mark are now closer to the action if it heads away from them. Add in the greater speed (on average) of NFL players to college players for an even shorter effective distance. Any play that gets drawn out even a little is going to allow for a faster close to the point of attack.

The counter to that is that in the NFL the players are generally much more disciplined about sticking to their assignments. Still, it's a game of inches, and DB that runs a 4.5 40 yard dash can cover 32 inches a second. Those fractions of a second add up quickly, too."

That's absurd. Cornerbacks no real change (the sidelines are the same) and safeties had it easier because it made deep outs to the wide side more difficult. Plus teams regularly played their best and fastest players to the wide side, in addition to often putting an extra player out there too.

There isn't a defensive coach alive that doesn't prefer wide hashes.

Icepick said...

Dirty football is part of the game.

For example, the San Francisco 49ers were a very dirty team under Bill walsh. Their offensive line played very dirty football, constantly trying to take out the knees of opposing players.

Other kinds of dirt:

The Steelers in the 1970s were the first team to systematically deploy the use of anabolic steroids. (Before it had mostly beena hit or miss use by individuals, such as Lyle Alzado of Denver, Cleveland and Oakland. The Steelers perfected it first, which is why they were so dominant in the late 1970s.

The Dallas Cowboys around the same era were notorious for shooting up injured players with pain killers and cortisone to get them back on the field. Players got used up much faster that way than would have happened had they been treated for their injuries.

I love football, but the urge to win at all costs has a dark underbelly. This stuff with the Saints is just the latest, not the worst I've heard, and it won't be the end of it either.

Curious George said...

Joe Schmoe said...
CG, what about Buddy Ryan's defenses? They were physically superior, but they also weren't out there playing pat-a-cake, either. They made my man Tony Eason turtle like a bitch in SBXX."

Yes they did, but not with dirty play. If you can't differentiate physical football from a guy who two seconds after a pass is gone grabs a QB and intentionally throws him on the ground, well I can't help you.

Icepick said...

safeties had it easier because it made deep outs to the wide side more difficult. Plus teams regularly played their best and fastest players to the wide side, in addition to often putting an extra player out there too.

If deep outs to the wide side are more difficult, why put your best and fastest receivers out there? What you are telling me is that defensive coaches prefer wide hashes because offensive coaches are too fucking stupid to be allowed out of the house without adult supervision.

Joe Schmoe said...

So the Bears have never been flagged for a late hit penalty? Your homer-ism is showing. Geez, even I know Brandon Meriweather was fined last year for illegal helmet-to-helmet hits. I'm not saying that's their philosophy now, but I've just seen enough dirty hits by Bears players over the years to know they ain't innocent. To hear you crow about the Packers of all teams is funny to me.

Robert R. said...

Denver was outscored by nearly 90 points last season playing in one of the worst divisions in football. Tebow did some things well, kept plays alive, ran well, and avoided interceptions, but there were long stretches of ineffectiveness on his part and a good dose of luck, the Bears game was effectively a loss if Marion Barber doesn't make one of the most braindead football decisions imaginable. Norv Turner also mismanaged a late season game somehow concluding that a 50 yard field goal was automatic.

The Broncos easily could have gone 6 - 10 last season or worse. Judging by their points differential, the true talent of the team is worse than their record and they easily could regress. It's possible that Manning and the Broncos don't amount to much AND Tebow doesn't amount to much with the Jets.

AJ Lynch said...

Does the Saint's Super Bowl victory now warrant an asterisk in the record books?

tim maguire said...

Tebow sucks. Pretty much the only thing he does well is win football games. And since when was winning at the top of any fan's list?

As for the Saints--their punishment should not come from the NFL, it should come from the ADA. It will be a travesty if nobody goes to jail.

Curious George said...

"Icepick said...
safeties had it easier because it made deep outs to the wide side more difficult. Plus teams regularly played their best and fastest players to the wide side, in addition to often putting an extra player out there too.

If deep outs to the wide side are more difficult, why put your best and fastest receivers out there? What you are telling me is that defensive coaches prefer wide hashes because offensive coaches are too fucking stupid to be allowed out of the house without adult supervision."

They are harder with wide hashes...a 15 yard out turns into 20 yard out. Teams put their best and fastest players to the wide side because there is more field to cover, and they know it's likely that the offense will go to the wide side. Dude, do you think you have discovered something that actual coaches at the pro and college level haven't?

Icepick said...

Tebow sucks. Pretty much the only thing he does well is win football games. And since when was winning at the top of any fan's list?

LOL Nicely done!

Actually, someone else mentioned something else Tebow does well: He has a very low interception rate. That's really incredible given his lack of accuracy and his slow delivery. That indicates very good decision making on his part, and is the thing I think Tebow fans really ought to latch onto.

Icepick said...

Dude, do you think you have discovered something that actual coaches at the pro and college level haven't?

Not that so much as I wonder if the coaches are all that good at the math. (It's not like pro coaches haven't been shown to be lacking at such stuff in the past.) Putting your best player into a position that will dilute his effectiveness and that of the QB is not exactly sound strategy.

Original Mike said...

"Tebow sucks. Pretty much the only thing he does well is win football games. "

Nonetheless, I'm sure glad he's not the QB on the team I root for.

Rabel said...

traditionalguy wrote:

"The Carolina Panthers were also in the Saint's division. So a "hit contract " was put out by NO owner and management and coach to injure Cam Newton."

The NFL wrote:

"There is no evidence that Saints ownership had any knowledge of the pay-for-performance or bounty program. There is no evidence that any club funds were used for the program. Ownership made clear that it disapproved of the program, gave prompt and clear direction that it stop, and gave full and immediate cooperation to league investigators."

The owner, Benson, was cleared. But I'd be glad to hear anything you have to back up the allegation that he was involved.

Joe said...

Why is Tebow given credit for several Bronco wins? The comeback Bronco games I saw, the credit should go to an offensive line and receivers who stopped playing like bumbling amateurs.

garage mahal said...

Nonetheless, I'm sure glad he's not the QB on the team I root for.

Apparently the trade is held up due to language in the contract that might void it. Keep your fingers crossed.

traditionalguy said...

Tebow's big talent is leadership. And he knows that.

A coach like Ryan who babies Sanchez no matter how stupid Sanchez proves himself to be actually shows more hope than Tebow shows faith. It has proved to be a misplaced hope...but maybe this year, Ryan hopes.

I predict that Tebow will be the QB of the Jets by mid-season and Sanchez will be traded to Miami.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

He is a decent QB who will do well when a coach decides to design a game plan around his strengths. But most coaches don't want to go through the effort to do so.

Tebow's style is a much better match for the CFL -- much wider field, 12 men, unlimited backfield motion, and so on. Canadian football is considerably more wide-open and fluid, thus quite well suited to Tebow.

The Argos, Allouettes, or Lions could all use him well, but I suspect his best fit would be the with Stampeders in Calgary because southern Alberta is the Canadian Bible Belt.

Matt said...

tim maguire said...
Tebow sucks. Pretty much the only thing he does well is win football games. And since when was winning at the top of any fan's list?

This is sarcasm, right? Just checking.

Henry said...

Actually, someone else mentioned something else Tebow does well: He has a very low interception rate. That's really incredible given his lack of accuracy and his slow delivery. That indicates very good decision making on his part, and is the thing I think Tebow fans really ought to latch onto.

That indicates that he can't switch his read from his primary receiver. He's smart enough not to throw into coverage, but at the cost of holding onto the ball and throwing to no one.

I agree that he's one of the better guys in the NFL as a person. He seems honestly sincere in his devotions. But he's now had two years to learn how to make reads and he still hasn't made progress.

I feel bad for him going to the Jets. They are a disaster.

Icepick said...

Oops! Tebow isn't traded yet. A contractual snag may end the deal. Apparently the Jets don't want to pay for services already rendered to Denver!

Original Mike said...

"Apparently the trade is held up due to language in the contract that might void it. Keep your fingers crossed."

I don't follow. I don't care who Tebow plays for (as long as he doesn't play for the Packers).

Curious George said...

"Joe Schmoe said...
So the Bears have never been flagged for a late hit penalty? Your homer-ism is showing. Geez, even I know Brandon Meriweather was fined last year for illegal helmet-to-helmet hits. I'm not saying that's their philosophy now, but I've just seen enough dirty hits by Bears players over the years to know they ain't innocent. To hear you crow about the Packers of all teams is funny to me."

Okay, I changed my mind, if you can't differentiate between a late hit or an illegal hit and what Martin did to McMahon, or what Lee and Sills did to Peyton and Suey then you really are a moron.

By the way, the Bears benched Meriweather after his hit. COmpare that to Greggs reaction to Charles Martin's two game suspension:

"Disappointed"...in Martin's actions? Nah! In Roselle's decision to suspend him! Said He was "proud he is a Packer and to coach him".

Joe Schmoe said...

Henry, you make a good point about not checking down on his receivers. Probably he does that because he can run so effectively; why check down to a back 5 yards out when you can run for 15?

I also noticed he doesn't usually throw until a receiver is out of his break or cut. Usually he makes eye contact with the receiver before throwing. Contrast that with Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and Brees, all who throw to spots before the receiver turns for the ball.

Beth said...

Sorry for St. Louis, but glad we got rid of Williams before this came down. What about the other teams he coached at and ran the same bounty program before NOLA?

I expected the draft picks, fines and some suspensions. Did NOT expect Payton out for a season. It's always about the cover up. And upcoming concussion lawsuits.

Curious George said...

By the way Joe I've been a Bear fan since 1963. 49 years. I've addressed just a few years of Packer history of that 49. How that makes me a "homer" in this regard.

garage mahal said...

I don't follow. I don't care who Tebow plays for (as long as he doesn't play for the Packers).

I had heard a few bits about Tebow and Green Bay a few days ago. Doesn't make any sense in McCarthy's system. At least as a QB.

Original Mike said...

"I had heard a few bits about Tebow and Green Bay a few days ago."

Oh, God.

Icepick said...

I also noticed he doesn't usually throw until a receiver is out of his break or cut. Usually he makes eye contact with the receiver before throwing. Contrast that with Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and Brees, all who throw to spots before the receiver turns for the ball.

That's been a favorite criticism in some corners. It's actually also the most damning thing about his ability to play QB at an NFL level. The ability to anticipate what you KNOW is going to happen is critical.

I'm glad someone else mentioned this as I had forgotten to do so.

Joe Schmoe said...

Geez, Curious George, you're whining like a baby on this one. It's funny how worked up you are about it. You've outed yourself as an unthinking homer who's team is the very model of noble pursuits while denigrating a Packers organization that has comported itself with much more class than the Bears. I await your final eruption on the matter, but I'm done.

garage mahal said...

C.G. is completely right about the Forrest Gregg era. Nothing to be proud of, really. Bad coaching, bad players, bad front office. They played to play dirty, not to win.

David said...

Garage: I certainly don't favor anti-gay crusaders. But I like Tim Tebow. See, I cam around to your position. (That's a first.)

Tim said...

Looks like Tebowmania may be headed to St. Louis instead...

David said...

So the Jets decided to read the contract after they announced the deal and pissed off Sanchez? How very New York of them.

David said...

Ryan! You're fired!

You too, Sanchez!

jacksonjay said...

Elway and Fox were pissed at Tebow for winning!

They were counting on losing out after they traded Orton. They wanted Luck or RGIII!

Tebow screwed that up!

Icepick said...

So the Jets decided to read the contract after they announced the deal and pissed off Sanchez? How very New York of them.

They had to trade for the contract before they could know what was in it. Does that make it very DC? Is Dan Snyder somehow involved?

Icepick said...

They were counting on losing out after they traded Orton. They wanted Luck or RGIII!

They may have wanted Luck, but back when they benched Orton no one knew that RGIII warranted that kind of attention, except RGIII.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
C.G. is completely right about the Forrest Gregg era. Nothing to be proud of, really. Bad coaching, bad players, bad front office. They played to play dirty, not to win."

Thank you. A fine example of why as a rule, and despite being a Bears fan, I respect both the Packers and their fans. A heated rivalry for sure, but other than the Gregg era, both teams have class.

Salamandyr said...

Looks like Tebowmania may be headed to St. Louis instead...

This will never happen. It might cause the Rams to win a game or two.

Love said...

Timmy should just take his dough and start a new church.

The Holy Church of Massive Marketing.

HT said...

Henry says it well.

There's trouble in tradeland, I have heard with Tebow.

I'm glad a damper has been put on the football God boy association. I always firmly believed people were in it more for the wins, and less for the God.

jacksonjay said...

Orton benched on Oct. 9!

RGIII wins Heisman on Dec. 10!

Tim said...

"They had to trade for the contract before they could know what was in it. Does that make it very DC? Is Dan Snyder somehow involved?"

I'm not expert in this, but from what I understand, the NFL has an intranet for all the teams, where player contracts are posted for all teams to see. I suppose the CBA with the NFLPA allows this, else it would be collusion (which is why the certification issue was so critical during the recent lockout). Anyway - the idiot Jets (most likely GM Mike Tannenbaum - but someone else might be in charge of contract negotiations/oversight) apparently didn't check out the contract available to them before concluding the trade for Tebow with Broncos.

I have no idea how the NFL would adjudicate the dispute should it come to that (the Broncos insisting on the enforcing the trade), but as a 'Niners fan, I'm hoping against hope Tebow is headed to St. Louis.

Rams lose Gregg Williams and gain Tim Tebow all in the same day? Double win for my guys!

rcommal said...

Holy shit. This may be the only comments thread here my football-fan husband will ever read. Don't let anyone tell you there usn't a first time for everything!

traditionalguy said...

The smoke the Commissioner's statement is blowing to protect the Saints owners is what a Commissioner's bosses want. Threatening owners is beyond his pay grade.

But every rational person knows that the Driver of the car is the one responsible for what his passengers are throwing out the window while he drives the car he owns down the road.

Saying he didn't do it... but it was that bad passengers, is not an excuse. It is a confession.

EMD said...

"Timmy should just take his dough and start a new church.

The Holy Church of Massive Marketing."

Do you even know what he does with his money, or are you just being crass because you think he's a charlatan?

Joe Schmoe said...

"garage mahal said...
C.G. is completely right about the Forrest Gregg era. Nothing to be proud of, really. Bad coaching, bad players, bad front office. They played to play dirty, not to win."

Thank you. A fine example of why as a rule, and despite being a Bears fan, I respect both the Packers and their fans. A heated rivalry for sure, but other than the Gregg era, both teams have class.


Bringing together conservatives and lefty progressives. Damn. Is there anything football can't do?

Petunia said...

So now we see that in order to give themselves their best chance of winning a Super Bowl this year, the Broncos were willing to sacrifice a virgin.

Glad Sean Payton's out for the year, and glad Gregg Williams is suspended indefinitely. His statement was appalling. Considering he ran a bounty program with at least two teams, saying that it was not reflective of his values as a coach and a father is just...well, a LIE.

Joe Schmoe said...

Trade back on; Tebow now a Jet.

LarsPorsena said...

'Petunia said...

So now we see that in order to give themselves their best chance of winning a Super Bowl this year, the Broncos were willing to sacrifice a virgin.'

Undoubtedly, the only one in Colorado.