March 10, 2012

Bill Maher to Rush Limbaugh: "You know what, Rush, when you can stand up in front of an audience of 3,000 people all the time like I do..."

I've already blogged about what Bill Maher said on his show last night about Rush Limbaugh, so forgive me if you've already had enough of the Maher-Limbaugh topic, but this really is something else and I have something different to say. Maher said:
The word that they're upset about. I never said on this show.
What is he referring to? He did call Sarah Palin a "dumb twat" on the show. (See?)
It was in my standup act, which I consider the last bastion of free speech. 
The word, apparently, is "cunt," and he used it in his standup show. He tones it down a notch for HBO.
There's a reason people compare me to George Carlin — 'cause we're standup comedians. 
By the way, "twat" wasn't even on  Carlin's original list of "Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television." "Cunt" was. Later, Carlin expanded the list, and "twat" got on along with "fart" and "turd." It's like a late year in the history of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, when The Beatles and The Rolling Stones got in long ago, like 2002 and they're getting around to Gene Pitney and Brenda Lee. It's an analogy! I don't owe Brenda an apology. If people are too dumb to handle analogies, why do we even have democracy? Let's just make Obama king, stop talking about politics, and spend our lives dancing and singing.

Did you watch that Carlin clip? Astounding! Maher cites "people" who compare him to George Carlin. He doesn't dare claim the comparison sprang out of his own semi-bald dome. But I'll compare him to Carlin: Bill Maher is not at all as funny or perceptive as George Carlin. Now that's a comparison. What did those other people who compared Maher to Carlin say? I'd like to know, because I'd like to do a comparison comparison. I think mine is better.

Back to this quote from last night that I'm trying to analyze:
Rush Limbaugh likes to say he's a comedian. 
No, he doesn't! Rush's critics like to call him a comedian. When it suits their purposes. Other times they like to say he's the spokesman for the Republican Party. And that's what Rush likes to say. I listen to the show all the time, so I know what he likes to say. Unlike a lot of people who love to hate Rush and simply react to out-of-context quotes they've been fed.

But Rush uses humor. He likes to "use absurdity to illustrate the absurd."

Mayer continues:
You know what, Rush, when you can stand up in front of an audience of 3,000 people all the time like I do and make them spill their fuckin' guts out and laugh their asses off for 90 minutes, you're a comedian. 
Rush doesn't do theater shows — which tend to be scripted with crafted jokes told one after the other — and let's grant Maher that Rush would be bad at that. But Rush does sit down at a microphone 3 hours a day, 5 days a week and hold the attention of not 3,000 people but many millions. For 20 years. Maher could not do that. These are different activities. Both deploy humor as they talk about politics, but they do it in a different way. Maher's bragging that he's doing much more than Rush... it's as off as the implication that he's as good as Carlin.
But you're not a comedian. And when you do that, I say, my rule: You get a little extra leeway. 
Each humorist can decide for himself how much leeway he's going to take. And people will decide whether to give it to him. He can't dictate a rule, except as a joke. You don't get the leeway because you do standup comedy (or a radio show using absurdity to illustrate absurdity). You get what people feel like giving you. And what we feel is a response to what you do. It's a mystery why we feel the way we do. We're not following any rules. It's a personal relationship, like love.
But if I offended women, I'm sorry. I don't have a problem saying I'm sorry. 
Oh, but you do, Bill. Because that is not an apology. It's easy to say "I'm sorry" in the sorry-if-you-are-offended form, i.e., a nonapology.
I don't know why women would want to align themselves with Sarah Palin. I don't know why an insult to her is an insult to all women, but if it is, I'm sorry.
If... and obviously, you don't think it is. The joke — not a terribly good one, not anything that's going to make us spill our "fuckin' guts" out over— is that women shouldn't see Sarah Palin as one of the women who count. If we can isolate her over there with the bad people, we can call her a name that is specific to women: a "cunt." Is the use of a woman-specific insult something that switches the subject to all women? That is, is "cunt" like a racist epithet? If one black person is called the n-word, the topic ceases to be whether that one black person is a bad guy. Or is "cunt" like "dick"? If one guy is called a "dick," we stay on topic: the way that one guy is a "dick." I wrote "cunt," "dick," and "n-word," so you can see what my answer is. I'm for sexual equality... and abandoning the famously hurtful racial epithet.

So let humorists of all kinds select the language they want to use. Let them be gentle or cutting. There are all sorts of things you can do with words. There are no rules. There are no 7 dirty words for TV or extra leeway for extracting puke from 3,000 theater-ticket buyers. There is a mystery to using words to reach other human beings, and you're all on your own.

170 comments:

Chuck66 said...

Mahr is a vicious anti-Christian bigot. Now, nothing wrong with being a nasty hate-filled bigot. But really, should a sitting President accept a check from said bigot for $1,000,000?

Chuck66 said...

Mahr also said he'd like to "fuck" Governer Sarah Palin.

Stay classy, Democrats!

Kevin said...

"There is a mystery to using words to reach other human beings, and you're all on your own."

That cunt Bill Maher needs to be driven off HBO.

William said...

If Limbaugh had hair, a trim physique, and did not use Viagra would his comments have been acceptable? It seems to me that those who criticize men for being sexist are somewhat sexist in their critiques.

MayBee said...

Has anyone made the argument that an insult to Sarah Palin is an insult to all women? I know someone explicitly used that construct for a statement...but it was Axelrod speaking about Fluke.

Isn't the concern here not about what is comedy and what is commentary, but what President Obama want for Sasha and Malia. So they can get involved in public debates without being called horrible names?

Lyssa said...

Let's assume that Maher is a pure comedian and Rush is a pure commenter (although both assumptions are stupid). So?

Why does a comedian get a pass for saying things like Maher said, any more than a commenter would?

Kevin said...

How can Obama explain to Sasha and Malia that he's accepted a million bucks from a foul mouthed jerk who uses obscene terms for female genitalia against women he doesn't like?

Chip S. said...

Shorter Maher: "I'm funny, dammit!"

edutcher said...

Thing is, Rush gets up in front of millions five days a week for three hours.

And it's all original material.

And whether it's twat or cunt, it's the same thing and Maher knows it.

Somebody somewhere must really be getting worried because Maher is trying to make himself appear less offensive and more cerebral (lotsa luck, BTW). We don't know how many people have cancelled HBO, but I'll bet somebody is starting to worry about GodZero's image after being associated with a sleaze like that and what taking $1M from him (and refusing to give it back after Maher offered to) does to it; protestations about Malia and Sasha notwithstanding.

phx said...

I listen to the show all the time

You gotta get over that.

MayBee said...

Bill Maher also has writers, producers, and audience rehearsals so he can test his jokes before his show.

Overall, I prefer we stop all the demands for condemnation and apologies. It really isn't that much of an imposition on our lives if we get offended every now and then. I think the only way we'll get there is to realize one side doesn't get to spew while clutching their pearls when the other side gets off-color.

AJ Lynch said...

Jeez Althouse - what a waste writing more than 1,000 words on this smug little pussy. An even bigger waste was my spending my time using "word count" to tally your waste of words.

William said...

I think Limbaugh was trying to make Fluke look ridiculous. Maher was trying to make Palin look contemptible. Limbaugh was out of line, but I don't think it was hate speech. Maher really was trying to engender hostility to Palin......I watch Maher occasionally. I give hime credit for attacking Islam with the same zeal that he attacks Christianity. On his show, he generally has some articulate conservatives to rebut his arguments. I don't have any problem with him being on TV.

Kevin said...

"Overall, I prefer we stop all the demands for condemnation and apologies."

Nope. Limbaugh has lost a lot of his advertisers through an organized campaign - Maher needs to lose his HBO gig as well.

I'm not going to accept a regime where we "stop all the demands" only when a Leftist starts getting hurt.

wildswan said...

I think you are saying that no one should be prosecuted or persecuted for what they say BUT IT WILL be considered self-revelation. Or maybe that's what I think. To me, people like Maher (and trolls) seem to think that certain words prove sincerity and candor and the more of them you use the more sincere you are. Whereas I think they show mental and spiritual impoverishment - a desire to shock has replaced any other use of words. I saw this in the Sixties and I have to say it's pretty tedious watching other people acquire the same knowledge. But that's cultural change for you - a slow process.

phx said...

I think the only way we'll get there is to realize one side doesn't get to spew while clutching their pearls when the other side gets off-color.

Maybee is on the right track. What you really have to do though is let everyone know you think the person being crude and vulgar on your side is ignorant.

When that happens, finally, then people will be able to turn away from this kind of stuff quickly and get back on track.

ME: You know that was pretty vile of Maher when he called Palin that.

YOU: Why can't Rush keep his mouth shut? (rolls eyes)

Then we understand each other, no big deal and move on.

smitty1e said...

Bill Maher types in military units find themselves calibrated in a jiffy.
It's rather an amazing transformation, really. Often, a useful human being emerges.

Lyssa said...

MayBee said: Overall, I prefer we stop all the demands for condemnation and apologies. It really isn't that much of an imposition on our lives if we get offended every now and then.

I would prefer this, overall, too. I'm particularly tired of the sexist attitude that adult women are somehow fragile creatures that will break if called dirty names.

That said, Kevin's right, too, that conservatives will just get taken down by it. But I'd try to focus on the hypocracy, not the actual langugage.

And, that said, some of the things that cross the line into sexual violence (not by Maher, I think, but there have been others that have) are disgusting and should be spoken out against entirely for their own sake. (i.e., HateFuck, saying that Palin should be raped, something about wanting to shove hairy balls into Michelle Malkin's mouth).

rhhardin said...

Cunt is fair for Palin because she trades on being sexually interesting to men.

As a man she wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

Cunt names that sexual relationship, for her and not all women.

"As for this cunt you have here, I wouldn't worry about her."

It gets to all women because they're still prone to fainting spells, especially feminists.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Oh who cares. Liberals have their own set of rules and standards that they live by. Don't ever expect them to live up to the standards they expect of everyone else.

rhhardin said...

Maher is on Imus occasionally, and is sometimes funny. Maybe I can find a clip.

Otherwise I don't know him.

Imus claims to have found girls and drugs for him when he was a page at NBC long ago, as I recall.

Sorun said...

I'm sure there are a lot of high-level meetings discussing this issue. Seriously.

Jay said...

There's a reason people compare me to George Carlin — 'cause we're standup comedians.

Really?

Um, who are these "people" who compare this fugly, woman beating troll to George Carlin?

EDH said...

Rush doesn't do theater shows — which tend to be scripted with crafted jokes told one after the other — and let's grant Maher that Rush would be bad at that.

You forget the "Rush to Excellence Tour".

Rush joins the Clarence "Frogman" Henry to perform Ain't Got No Home; the infamous "Homeless Update" jingle. Rush to Excellence Tour 1991.

From the Amazon review of

"Rush Limbaugh Video Collector's Set (Rush to Excellence '89 Tour / Rush II / Rush 3: The Limbaugh Chronicles)"

...this video is not about his radio show or about any of his political views. this is all but a stand up comedy. i think that he is already preparing himself for a second career (just like charlie sheen) if he retires from radio.

MayBee said...


And, that said, some of the things that cross the line into sexual violence (not by Maher, I think, but there have been others that have) are disgusting and should be spoken out against entirely for their own sake. (i.e., HateFuck, saying that Palin should be raped, something about wanting to shove hairy balls into Michelle Malkin's mouth).


Agree.
Men get called bad names all the time, but I really cannot imagine any semi-legit commentator saying he'd like to hate fuck Obama (or any man).

shiloh said...

Althouse, much like your continuing one year anniversary trip down memory lane WI protest ad nauseam minutiae ~ two words.

Diminishing returns!

But in the spirit of free speech, :D please continue to bait your tribe as you wish as you "try" to atone for your sins of moving a tad left recently. :-P

take care

Alex said...

If Limbaugh looked like George Clooney we would not be having this discussion. Rush so fits the leftist stereotype of old, fat white pig that it's uncanny.

Alex said...

I'm still waiting for shiloh's list of moderate blogs.

SteveR said...

Maher is not anywhere close to being as clever and funny as George Carlin was nor as poltically insightful as Rush Limbaugh.

He's not even as funny as Limbaugh or as poltically insightful os Carlin.

Hitler could get an audience.

Lyssa said...

What does "cunt" mean, anyway?

I mean, I know that it's a derogatory term for a female, and particularly for a female part, but what behavior leads to being call that? I know what makes a person a "bitch", and I know what "dick" and "prick" mean, and "asshole", and even "boob" evoke. But I can't really figure out what sort of action a person has to take to be "cunt-like."

MayBee said...

Obama was back on his GOP hate women message last night in Texas.
This is a real thing for him.
HBO may be a little sensitive right now with the Maher thing, because Game Change is coming out.

(Game Change, which focuses on Palin rather than St. Elizabeth for some reason)

EDH said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

We're now at the point where the focus has been reversed and the Left's War on (Conservative/Republican/Libertarian/Crusty coating-love chick center) Women is in the spotlight. This is not how Uncle Saul said it was supposed to go.

Have we reached the tipping point where more people are paying attention to decentralized (Internet/talk radio/FNC) media than centralized?

(maybe OT, but not really because one of the FUD merchants will be along with a KosKid sneer about how Ann is covering for the Republicans)

One reason (two, actually) why Maher and the Lefties are so desperately trying to reshape this:

Off Rasmussen:

Romney 48

Zero 43

Presidential Approval Index -19 (lowest since the phony job stats a month ago)

Don't forget - gas is $6 in LA and $4.50 in Gotham. Tough to get out the vote for that.

Cedarford said...

Althouse - "you can see what my answer is. I'm for sexual equality... and abandoning the famously hurtful racial epithet."

The difference I see is that the word "cunt" is not frequently used in common conversation whereas the famously hurtful racial epithet is used millions of times each day - 99.9% by self-described young "n-worders".

shiloh said...

Maher isn't this, Maher isn't that yada yada yada ... yet Althouse sure is giving him a lot of free air time in her continuing quest to compare him to her lover boy, Limbo.

To which Maher says thank you for her concern! :)

Again, It's better to be talked about than not talked about at all ~ Oscar Wilde

EDH said...

A comedy double standard when it comes to female conservatives?

Compare the treatment on "Family Guy" of...

Ann Coulter

Rush Limbaugh (watch until the last line about crediting women)

~N. said...

I recall Eddie Murphy once saying, in response to a question about using profanity during his stand-up routines, that it's only okay if it's funny.

If your material is not funny -- truly, universally funny, and funny because it pokes fun at the human condition, not sneers at a particular person based on race, creed, or political persuasion -- no amount of profanity is going to save your routine.

Maher claims he's a comedian (he's not, or at least hasn't been for a very, very, very long time). Limbaugh claims he's a serious politcal pundit (yet hides behind "entertainer" when he gets caught basically being a moronic jerk), and yet NEITHER of their routines are funny At. All.

Once your "humor" or "satire" depends on vicious rhetoric intended to personally degrade and demean a specific person just because you disagree with them, you're not funny, nor is your audience responding to humor.

At the end of the day, using that kind of rhetoric with that kind of intent only diminishes the message and diminishes the messenger.

Cedarford said...

Could we all at least get together as liberals and conservatives, men and women, hold hands, show our humanity - and agree that Gloria Allred is a cunt ?

phx said...

Cedarford you know...maybe.

cubanbob said...

Maher is a cunt and Limbaugh is a prick. Now is everybody happy?

Maher's defense of Limbaugh's free speech smells of fear, must be a lot of pressure on HBO. And perhaps Maher and HBO are a little bit worried that if the democrats loose big in November angry republicans might take a page from the left and really put the screws to Hollywood and the cable companies, not that that wouldn't be a good thing. I love the smell of fear in the morning, smells like victory!

Alex said...

ed - I'll believe it when I see Romney tied in the MSM polls. Obama is a campaigning monster I tell you.

Roger J. said...

my suspicion is that only about 5 percent of the electorate are focused on this issue--Now: 5 dollar a gallon gasoline gets everyones attention.

But do, lets carry on with the latest chattering class issue.

gadfly said...

Let us all put our hands together in a roaring applause for this Ann Althouse classic.

Well done, my dear!

shiloh said...

"it's only okay if it's funny."

Interesting dichotomy between liberals sense of humor and conservatives lack thereof ...

Not that die hard conservatives were ever all that funny, but Obama easily getting elected president put quite a damper on that as well. Indeed, it's hard to laugh when you're in the fetal position! :-P

phx said...

Althouse blog posts on $5 Gas - 0
Althouse posts of this issue - Whoa!

cubanbob said...

Cedarford said...
Could we all at least get together as liberals and conservatives, men and women, hold hands, show our humanity - and agree that Gloria Allred is a cunt ?

3/10/12 1:01 PM
phx said...
Cedarford you know...maybe.

3/10/12 1:02 PM

When a day like today happens that I can agree with the both of you there must a great disturbance in the force.

~N. said...

@Cedarford

Nah. She's too much of a caricature to be the "c" word. That word loses its power if it gets used for someone that obvious and that inconsequential.

Michael said...

Maher is vile and stupid in only the way half educated people who consider themselves briliant can be stupid.

traditionalguy said...

Maher has always seemed tactical in his deployment of "political humor." He designs jokes that affirm his friends by exposing their enemies to ridicule.

But in the Age of Breitbart, wiggle room is no longer being freely given to comics. Instead comic's friend's enemies's friends counterattack the silly comic.

It's fascinating read Professor Althouse's attempt to referee points in this match.

Rush, a long time friend of The Professor's, is a party here. But she feels compelled to remove Maher's comic pass for using similar sayings that Rush is being kicked around for.

She hasn't done the full Justice Prosser yet, but if Maher suddenly comes at her, he may find her hands around his neck.

edutcher said...

Indeed, it's hard to laugh when you're in the fetal position! :-P

Says bathtub swabbie, curled up on the floor, drooling on himself.

shiloh said...

"But in the Age of Breitbart"

Again, conservatives living in a bubble!

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

cubanbob said...

Maher is a cunt and Limbaugh is a prick. Now is everybody happy?

Maher's defense of Limbaugh's free speech smells of fear, must be a lot of pressure on HBO. And perhaps Maher and HBO are a little bit worried that if the democrats loose big in November angry republicans might take a page from the left and really put the screws to Hollywood and the cable companies, not that that wouldn't be a good thing. I love the smell of fear in the morning, smells like victory!


Close. The good ship Lefty is floundering badly and Maher, like a lot of the other rats, is looking to jump ship. His "defense" of Limbaugh was just him begging the sharks not to eat him. The latest spew is in reaction to the other rats figuring out what he's up to and calling him on it.

Seeing Red said...

Could we all at least get together as liberals and conservatives, men and women, hold hands, show our humanity - and agree that Gloria Allred is a cunt ?


She always was, now it's acceptable to think it and voice it.

And we debase our language and country more. Good job, progressives. This is not part of the "new civiility." Wait until the 10 y.o. boy calls the girl that on the playground, it won't be so cute.

cubanbob said...

Alex said...
ed - I'll believe it when I see Romney tied in the MSM polls. Obama is a campaigning monster I tell you.

3/10/12 1:04 PM
Roger J. said...
my suspicion is that only about 5 percent of the electorate are focused on this issue--Now: 5 dollar a gallon gasoline gets everyones attention.

But do, lets carry on with the latest chattering class issue.

3/10/12 1:04 PM

Only us blog gadflies are this deep in to politics at this stage of the game. The great unwashed masses will stir themselves after Labor Day. As Roger J said its all about the price of gas, food and whether or not you are unemployed, facing unemployment or if someone close to you is unemployed that gets their attention. As Reagan said "are you better off now than you were four years ago". If enough people say no, Obama and the democrats are out. Right now Obama and the democrats are playing to their base with all these secondary issues but what they forget that most people don't have the luxury of worrying about secondary and tertiary issues when the primary issues aren't being resolved.

William said...

Misogyny and xenophobia are deep tendon responses of the human animal to the other. I think people on the left and right have a different set of victims, but both are unfair to the verboten strangers and women in their midst......I have read all the comments on this thread. On all sides, valid points have been scored. I'm glad that both Limbaugh and Maher are free to expound their views that we are free to criticize them for such views. I think in the future Limbaugh will be less inclined to call women sluts and Maher will no longer refer to Palin as a dumb twat. In such a way do the bounds of free speech get established and/or broken.

Alex said...

shiloh is so full of shit and a coward to boot.

rhhardin said...

Imus did say that Maher thinks he's a lot smarter than he really is.

YoungHegelian said...

You know, I don't seem to remember anybody including Maher defending Michael Richards when he lost it and used the n-word on stage.

I mean, he's was doing a stand up act, and he's a comedian.

He wasn't being racist, he was being edgy.

Where's nuance when you really need it?

phx said...

Imus did say that Maher thinks he's a lot smarter than he really is.

Imus, a known Mensa member, OED contributor and chess-problem solving champion.

Joe Schmoe said...

Oh who cares. Liberals have their own set of rules and standards that they live by. Don't ever expect them to live up to the standards they expect of everyone else.

Amen times ten. The Left owns the patent on the moveable goal post. Just when you line up to kick a field goal on their terms, you can bet the cunty motherfuckers will move them right out of the stadium.

(I'm just using the liberty apparently granted in the post to indiscriminately use the c word and f word. Since when did cunt become so mainstream? Not where I live.)

edutcher said...

But in the Age of Breitbart

Again, conservatives living in a bubble!


Yeah, a bubble big enough to consume the Left.

WV "PProf" (no kidding) What bathtub swabbie starts to say just before La Professeure bitch slaps him.

rhhardin said...

But I can't really figure out what sort of action a person has to take to be "cunt-like."

Trading openly on her sexual attraction to get some advantage.

As disparagement, the imputation of that.

As description, focussing on that behavior. You'd overlook, for the moment, loving her.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

Hey, Maher! When you've got 20 million people per week following your schtick, and you're making many tens of millions of dollars per year ... get back to me.

In a tragi-comic fashion it reminds me of Marilyn Monroe's comment to her then-husband "Oh, Joe, there were thousands of people standing up and cheering for me. You have NO idea."

To which Mr. DiMaggio replied "I probably do."

Advertisers which dropped Limbaugh are now begging to come back, to no avail.

Joe Schmoe said...

The best Seinfeld quote for Maher in this case:

Maher: Oh yeah? Well the jerk store called, and they're runnin' outta YOU!

Limbaugh: What's the difference? You're their all-time best seller!

Chip S. said...

Lyssa said...
What does "cunt" mean, anyway?

I mean, I know that it's a derogatory term for a female, and particularly for a female part, but what behavior leads to being call that?


Why, being female and conservative, of course!

Revenant said...

I've never heard anyone compare him to George Carlin. Maher cites Carlin as a major influence, though.

Presumably he thinks he's big enough now that he can make the comparison? Especially since Carlin's dead.

phx said...

Conservative Sex Fantasy #1048:

Advertisers which dropped Limbaugh are now begging to come back, to no avail.

shiloh said...

Conservatives, especially Althouse, are totally obsessed/fixated on the "c" word!

hmm ...

edutcher said...

In the old days, it would have meant pistols at 10 paces.

~N. said...

The "c" word means so much more than just being a whore or a slut, or a bitch, or a bitchy whore or whorish bitch.

The "c" word is (or used to be) reserved for the coldest, iciest, most immoral, heartless, self-serving, dishonest, dishonorable, devious, evil females you have the misfortune to come across.

Frankly, it's almost a compliment. I mean, a woman REALLY has to be Satan in drag to be called the "c" word.

Palin only wishes she was that interesting.

deborah said...

Lyssa, my take on the use of 'cunt' (in the US) is what people, maybe especially men, call a woman they especially despise. I think it's used when bitch just isn't strong enough.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Maher, Jon Stewart, Louis C.K. and all the other foul-mouthed and -minded unfunny leftist apologists defend themselves with the same tired proviso-- "Hey, we're comedians so we can't be held accountable." Don't take them seriously, but God save you if you don't agree with them. The arrogance and cynicism on display here is truly incredible, but totally in line with the Left's Golden Rule-- the ends justify the means.

Bruce Hayden said...

Imus, a known Mensa member, OED contributor and chess-problem solving champion.

Yeh, well, probably the only guy I know who bothered to qualify and join Mensa is a thieving drug addict living off of his step-kids' social security and his wife's unemployment.

Valentine Smith said...

ALL smart people think thet're a lot smarter than they actually are. It's a very big reason the world is as fucked up as it is. I will say it is especially egregious when it's in the form of a minor talent with serious character issues.

The Left's tropes and tactics are exhausted. Everything boomerangs. They're fighting the last war, the one against Bush and Palin. And their strategic positions are all pie-in-the-sky losers that are only effective when people are flush and feeling guilty. Powerful irony, that. Destruction of the middle class is not exactly a winning electoral strategy.

Fen said...

You know what, Rush, when you can stand up in front of an audience of 3,000 people all the time like I do and make them spill their fuckin' guts out and laugh their asses off for 90 minutes, you're a comedian.

Yes Bill, like when you tell your audience "Bush is stoopid". What a bunch of clowns. Both of them.

phx said...

“Do you ever think you’re just a bag of hot gas?” David Letterman asked Limbaugh a few years ago, when he appeared as a guest. Limbaugh squinted and then, taken aback, denied that the thought had ever occurred to him, as Letterman to his credit said, “I certainly think I am!”

From a piece by P. Theroux

shiloh said...

“I certainly think I am!”

That scene in Patton when George C. Scott utters, I know I'm a prima donna. I admit it. What I can't stand about Monty is, he won't admit it. :o

carry on

Michael Haz said...

Short version:

Liberal men are allowed to call women bitches, sluts, hos, cunts and twats without concern of reprisal.

Conservative men are not allowed to use these words, unless and until they announce they have fully embraced late trimester abortions and free contraceptives.

Rich B said...

Rush did one of his infrequent shows at Town Hall in NYC last November. Holds 1500 and was sold out quickly. He is great in front of an audience.

36fsfiend said...

Michael Haz said...

"Liberal men are allowed to call women bitches, sluts, hos, cunts and twats without concern of reprisal.

Conservative men are not allowed to use these words, unless and until they announce they have fully embraced late trimester abortions and free contraceptives."

Michael,

Are conservative men religious men?

Karnival said...

This is a man who is not nearly as smart or as funny as he thinks he is. Many around him have portrayed him as a smart comedian. He is neither. Just another example of the mediocrity of today's standards.

Rush Limbaugh changed radio. Literally changed the media. As you said, Ann, he does what he does, 3 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 20+ years. While he has his topics and points to hit, much of what he does is off the top of his head. Ideas & points polished off with his impromptu commentary. No one else will ever do what he has done in the way he has done it. (the Left gave us Randi Rhodes and Al Franken. Gosh..thanks for that.).

Bill Maher is a piker compared to real comedians. Intellectually, he is soft at best. Nothing extraordinary about the man. No one will remember him the week after his show is gone.

Rush changed our world- like him or not. Maher is thin air. Rodney Dangerfield could make me laugh out lout. Maher? His best shot is taking cheap shots at people. That's not humor, it's lazy thinking. Classless and weak minded is not a good way to go through life.

cubanbob said...

shiloh said...
Conservatives, especially Althouse, are totally obsessed/fixated on the "c" word!

hmm ...

3/10/12 1:40 PM

You forgot to mention the other side of the coin with liberals obsessed/fixated on the "s" word! Just saying..

Chip S. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chip S. said...

36fsfiend said...

Are conservative men religious men?

Not me.

Are you saying that only religious people are bound by the restraints of decency?

36fsfiend said...

Chip S. said...

“Are you saying that only religious people are bound by the restraints of decency?”

No. But I thought religious people would strive more to show decency.

I found it interesting that the first post on this thread was one claiming that Maher is a vicious anti-Christian bigot. If that is the case, why justify Limbaugh’s behavior against that standard?

cubanbob said...

shiloh said...
“I certainly think I am!”

That scene in Patton when George C. Scott utters, I know I'm a prima donna. I admit it. What I can't stand about Monty is, he won't admit it. :o

carry on

3/10/12 2:41 PM

Great quote, had forgotten about it! And certainly applicable to Limbaugh, Maher, and Obama! Gotta give credit to Letterman for that, now if only Jon Stewart would fess up.

Chip S. said...

@fiend--Limbaugh's words can be evaluated on their own, with reference to whatever standards the evaluator wishes to apply.

Similarly, Maher's words stand or fall on their own.

Do I really have to explain to you the more general point being made in discussing Maher? OK, here it is:

Despite Obama's near-fainting spell over Limbaugh, he had gladly accepted a major contribution from the equally-or-more vulgar Maher.

In short, this is all just another episode in Shocked and Appalled Theater.

36fsfiend said...

Chip S.,

Is Limbaugh a man of faith?

What fainting spell did Obama have? He simply made a phone call to Fluke.

hoyden said...

If Maher is a comedian, how does he rate on the Al Franken scale?

cubanbob said...

36fsfiend said...
Chip S.,

Is Limbaugh a man of faith?

What fainting spell did Obama have? He simply made a phone call to Fluke.

3/10/12 3:29 PM

Out of the three hundred and ten million people he presides over she was the most deserving of a phone call offering presidential tea and sympathy. Carry on.

By the way, I'm sure you would agree that Fluke being involved with a former Obama operative had absolutely nothing to do with that gracious courtesy phone call.

36fsfiend said...

cubanbob said...

“Out of the three hundred and ten million people he presides over she was the most deserving of a phone call offering presidential tea and sympathy. Carry on.”

Out of the three hundred and ten million people he presides over she was the one blasted by Limbaugh, a nationally known public figure.

“By the way, I'm sure you would agree that Fluke being involved with a former Obama operative had absolutely nothing to do with that gracious courtesy phone call.”

What former Obama operative are you referring to? And does that justify the barrage from Limbaugh particularly if he is a man of faith?

shiloh said...

"Gotta give credit to Letterman for that, now if only Jon Stewart would fess up."

And Althouse as well. Hey, CWCID. :)

Tyrone Slothrop said...

phx said...

Conservative Sex Fantasy #1048:

Advertisers which dropped Limbaugh are now begging to come back, to no avail.


It's just amazing how realistic some of my sex fantasies are getting.

Alex said...

phx - since shiloh won't answer, do you have a list of acceptable moderate blogs that would shame the Althouse hillbillies?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

rhhardin said...

Cunt is fair for Palin because she trades on being sexually interesting to men.


Be honest, you'd love to hate fuck her, wouldn't you? I mean, she's asking for it, right? Wearing those tight skirts and sexy hair styles? Asking for it.

John Lynch said...

It seems Maher's defense is that Rush has an audience one thousand times larger.

Paco Wové said...

"Are conservative men religious men?"

What a weird question.

I ♥ Willard said...

I listen to the show all the time

o_O

36fsfiend said...

Paco Wové said...

“What a weird question.”

Paco Wové,

My question as to whether conservative men are religious men was in response to Michael Haz’s comment that Liberal men are allowed to call women bitches, sluts, hos, cunts and twats without concern of reprisal while Conservative men are not allowed to use these words, unless and until they announce they have fully embraced late trimester abortions and free contraceptives.

If Conservative men are men of faith, why would they consider using such language at all?

Michael Haz said...

36 - My comment had nothing to to with religion. It had everything to do with politics, and with the hypocrisy of the left in holding itself to one standard of behavior and conservatives to a different standard.

Chip S. said...

Paul Theroux understands, and offers a refreshing bit of clarity to his friends on the left:

This whole Limbaugh business epitomizes our confusion and our hypocrisy. The folks who depicted George Bush as a chimp, and Sarah Palin as a skank, are indignant when these same words are used against their people in the virtue industry, and that includes the troopers in the Reproductive Rights Activist Service Corps.

See, fiend? It isn't all that complicated.

Methadras said...

Maher, butthurt. Feel the burn of misogyny.

36fsfiend said...

Michael Haz said...

“36 - My comment had nothing to to with religion. It had everything to do with politics, and with the hypocrisy of the left in holding itself to one standard of behavior and conservatives to a different standard.”

Michael,

Well, I’m assuming, and maybe wrongly, that a majority of Conservatives are faithful to a religion, particularly Christianity. If that is in fact the case, should they not hold themselves to a higher standard than Maher who is professed atheist? Why would they wish to become what they despise?

36fsfiend said...

Chip S. said...

“Paul Theroux understands, and offers a refreshing bit of clarity to his friends on the left:

This whole Limbaugh business epitomizes our confusion and our hypocrisy. The folks who depicted George Bush as a chimp, and Sarah Palin as a skank, are indignant when these same words are used against their people in the virtue industry, and that includes the troopers in the Reproductive Rights Activist Service Corps.

See, fiend? It isn't all that complicated.”

So you are using someone from the left to justify your position?

As I responded to Michael Haz, assuming a majority of Conservatives are faithful to a religion, particularly Christianity, should they not hold themselves to a higher standard than Maher who is professed atheist?

Duncan said...

Mahr is also incorrect about Rush and Shows. From 1988 when he started syndication to sometime in the early '90s, he did a series of Rush to Excellence tours to build audiences. In May 1993, he packed the center of Fort Collins, CO for Dan's Bake Sale (to help a caller raise the money to buy a newsletter subscription).

His potential audiences became too big for tours so he discontinued them. For the last few years he's sold out a good-sized NYC theater on an irregular basis when he did shows organized by flagship station WABC.

In all these appearances, he does tell jokes.

Chip S. said...

So you are using someone from the left to justify your position?

You're funny when you try your hand at repartee.

Not LOL funny. Just... you know...funny.

William said...

I'm as despicable as most men, but I can't think of a single woman I have ever referred to as a cunt. I've called a fair number bitches, but I never used the term cunt. I have, on occasion, used the word slut, but until just recently I thought of it as a term of endearment.... One of the paradoxes of free speech is that you need to have free speech in order to establish what words are verboten. With all this talk of slut walks and such, I didn't think slut as a word was that far out of bounds, but apparently it is. Fortunately I have hair and I'm therefore still allowed to kid around with women.

Synova said...

I do care that Palin has to be disinvited from women that count so that she can be called names with impunity. I do think it is different than calling a man a dick. Maybe not the word, but the notion that some women are due one sort of civilized treatment and other women are not.

I read a lot of historical romances, and even the ones that aren't modern feminism in disguise are very clear (or even more clear) that in order to count, women had to carefully moderate their behavior. They had to fit in a very narrow range of choices and opinions, and then society would afford them certain expectations of protection. If not? Then they were the other sort, the ones with no recourse or expectation of civility. Kiss one girl and get caught doing so, and if she's the right sort, society will force you to marry her. Rape the maid? Whole different expectation.

The pearl clutching about the war on women because someone used insulting, bad, words, is the same thing. It's Victorian morality. Clearly so, because it applies so selectively to the *right* sort of ladies. The others? Well, after all, Sarah Palin *is* a... you-know-what, so it's just honesty, right?

This not-a-woman stuff is insulting. I don't think I like the notion that I've got to limit the expression of my ideas to only the acceptable ones or else I forfeit my expectations of being among those to whom decent behavior is due. I dislike all formations of "women" this or "women" that. How dare they? Am I a person or not?

I suppose we could come up with a different word, one that essentially means "adult woman" and then Fluke and the feminists can have the word "woman" for themselves.

JHapp said...

Bill Maher never makes me laugh and Rush often does.

shiloh said...

New Rules if you dare Althouse conservatives.

ie don't eat the forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge ~ rather just stay warm and fuzzy in your eternal bubble! :)

rhhardin said...

The assymetry of cunt and dick comes from the assymetry of the focus of male and female sexual attraction, even if by dick you mean penis (rather than the derivative of German for "thick" as in dickhead), as in thinks only of getting laid and acts that way.

The assymetry of expectations and Victorian decency rules comes from the same assymetry. It's easy for a woman to find a sexual partner today or in any age, hard for a man. The woman is respected if she resists, or actually resists until she makes a good deal for herself. Spitzer's call girl gets respect that cuts off both cunt and slut as appropriate, owing to the deal she made.

Slut implies that the woman seeks easy sexual gratification, rather than using sexuality to gain some other advantage.

Making a good deal shuts that out.

Better definitions?

There are reasons we have the words. What do they mean?

yashu said...

Oh shiloh, eff off.

Where do you live, you maverick, you brave individualist, you against-the-grain thinker? In the heart of Texas or Utah? Are your political opinions noticeably different from those in the newspapers you read, the TV shows you watch?

Many of us here live in the deepest of blue areas, most ultra-progressive milieus in this country. Madison, NYC, the Bay Area. And academia. Talk about right-wing bubbles!

I don't have a single friend or acquaintance where I live who would ever vote Republican or voice a conservative opinion. If I were more outspoken about my political views, I'd seriously jeopardize my career and social relationships. I don't watch FOX, I don't listen to Limbaugh. I'm 100% immersed in an environment where extreme leftism is considered axiomatic truth.

Yet there are a few places online-- such as Althouse-- where I can converse with diverse others, some of whom I find somewhat congenial with my own political inclinations, in some areas, sometimes. But I'm just as likely to argue and disagree when I feel like it-- because here, I can.

I'm such a lemming!

And if you haven't noticed the so-called right-wing "flock" bare-knuckle brawling with each other on countless issues here, day after day, then you're blind.

God, your smug self-congratulation (which is what your every comment consists of) is so tiresome.

Just Lurking said...

As I responded to Michael Haz, assuming a majority of Conservatives are faithful to a religion, particularly Christianity, should they not hold themselves to a higher standard than Maher who is professed atheist?

Whether or not conservatives have higher standards than liberals is irrelevant to the point.

But just to play along, let me answer the question with a question- Should judges sentence christians and jews more harshly than atheists, since the latter may not adhere to the judao-christian ideas of morality that our justice system is based on? Of course not. What an atheist believes is irrelevant to the fact that he/she broke the law.

Similarly, if the left makes it a rule that it is fair to condemn the Republican party because of something said by a conservative talking head, then they need to accept that that same rule will be applied to Dems and Obama , and they will be called to account by conservatives and independents for the words of the lefty mouth pieces. Maher is more than just some independent comic. He donated a million dollars to Obama's campaign. That makes him a political player.

If they don't like this rule, then Obama can drop the bullshit "GOP war on women" line. If he doesn't, then let him explain to Malia and Sasha and the rest of us, what Olberman's "mashed up bag of meat with lipstick" comment about Michelle Malkin says regarding the Democrats' view of women.

shiloh said...

"If I were more outspoken about my political views, I'd seriously jeopardize my career and social relationships."

So you're a frickin' chicken, very sad! But you feel free to spout your ideology on the net, so hopefully you won't go postal!

I live in a swing state and it's never been a secret. A state Rep's have always carried when they won the presidency.

And I could childishly tell you to "eff off" as well, but that would be acting like Althouse's hero, Limbaugh.

take care

Whatever Works said...

How DARE he compare himself to George Carlin...

yashu said...

Of course, we should all act as maturely as you, shiloh. No childishness at all in your comments: you're a model of dialogic high-mindedness, sophistication, and depth.

Sorry, we lemmings and chickens just aren't worthy of your conversation.

take care

36fsfiend said...

Just Lurking,

I’m not referring to man made laws. I’m referring to personal conduct expected by those who hold religious beliefs. Christ commanded his followers to love one’s enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Do you believe Limbaugh’s actions truly reflect that teaching? And even if he is not a Christian, how about his listeners, a majority who are Christians, embracing and accepting that behavior?

That seems to be an inconsistent position to me.

As far as Maher being a political player, yes that’s true. So is Limbaugh who is an influential figure on the Right which claims to embrace religion.

As far as the claim about a “GOP war on women”, I let the facts speak for themselves:

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2012/01/05/endofyear.html

shiloh said...

"Sorry, we lemmings and chickens just aren't worthy of your conversation."

The truth shall set you free!

Synova said...

"And even if he is not a Christian, how about his listeners, a majority who are Christians, embracing and accepting that behavior?

That seems to be an inconsistent position to me.
"

To me it sounds like a pastor we once had who spent all of his time in the pulpit talking about how Christian women are supposed to behave.

I've got no respect for someone who is more concerned about God's requirements for other people than about God's requirements for himself.

Reject standards of behavior for yourself but hold other people to those standards you've rejected?

Liberal much?

I know I said this before... saying Fluke is wrong is not saying Rush is right, saying Maher is wrong is not saying Rush is right, pointing out the hypocrisy dripping and oozing from the left is not saying that Rush is right.

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“I've got no respect for someone who is more concerned about God's requirements for other people than about God's requirements for himself.

Reject standards of behavior for yourself but hold other people to those standards you've rejected?”

I never stated that I condoned Maher’s behavior. However, I recognize he is an atheist and does not necessarily hold to the teachings of any religious beliefs. The attempt to use Maher as an example to justify Limbaugh’s actions seems to imply that you have no problem becoming what you despise.

“I know I said this before... saying Fluke is wrong is not saying Rush is right, saying Maher is wrong is not saying Rush is right, pointing out the hypocrisy dripping and oozing from the left is not saying that Rush is right.”

Why bring Maher into the issue at all? Why not simply condemn Limbaugh’s contemptible language and deliberate manipulation of Fluke’s testimony to impugn her character instead of addressing the facts of the issue?

iowan2 said...

I have been listening to Rush since his 1st national opening WHO Des Moines

Those early years Rush did his 'Rush to excellence" tours. I saw him in Davenport, in a theater that must have sat 3000 to 4000. Rush did these for about 90 minutes I think. No notes, no teleprompter. He was funny and entertaining, The show went quickly.

This debunks Maher, I think it exposes his ignorance and laziness. Assuming that Rush couldn't fill 3000 seats. With Mahers money and paid researchers it really is just laziness, shooting from the hip and hoping no one does any checking. Its not a big thing. Just lots of little things like that that define Maher.

iowan2 said...

I have been listening to Rush since his 1st national opening WHO Des Moines

Those early years Rush did his 'Rush to excellence" tours. I saw him in Davenport, in a theater that must have sat 3000 to 4000. Rush did these for about 90 minutes I think. No notes, no teleprompter. He was funny and entertaining, The show went quickly.

This debunks Maher, I think it exposes his ignorance and laziness. Assuming that Rush couldn't fill 3000 seats. With Mahers money and paid researchers it really is just laziness, shooting from the hip and hoping no one does any checking. Its not a big thing. Just lots of little things like that that define Maher.

Synova said...

"Why bring Maher into the issue at all? Why not simply condemn Limbaugh’s contemptible language and deliberate manipulation of Fluke’s testimony to impugn her character instead of addressing the facts of the issue?"

Why not bring Maher (and all those others) into it?

Why is it *enough* to condemn Limbaugh's contemptible language?

Certainly, if his language is wrong, then there are other wrongs that should be addressed.

Also, it's simply fun to point out the extreme, oooozing, hypocrisy.

As for Fluke's testimony... it pretty much was contemptible, so why not say so? Void of gravitas, overflowing with anecdote, hearsay, and assumptions of victimhood and entitlement... and crowned with the condescending insult that this all gets a pass because she's got the ultimate authority bestowed by lady-parts.

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“Why not bring Maher (and all those others) into it?”

Because it detracts from the actual issue at hand.

“As for Fluke's testimony... it pretty much was contemptible, so why not say so? Void of gravitas, overflowing with anecdote, hearsay, and assumptions of victimhood and entitlement... and crowned with the condescending insult that this all gets a pass because she's got the ultimate authority bestowed by lady-parts.”

I read over her statement and I did not see anything contemptible in her words. She was simply relating her experiences and those of a friend. As far as gravitas, I would say the story about her friend dealing with polycystic ovarian syndrome was quite serious since it resulted in her having surgery to remove her entire ovary.

Synova said...

"The attempt to use Maher as an example to justify Limbaugh’s actions seems..."

...like making stuff up.

Unless someone says, as Althouse sort of seemed to do, that Maher is right to use the bad language, it's not an attempt to justify Limbaugh.

If someone is saying Maher is *wrong*, then it's not an attempt to justify Limbaugh.

Pointing out the rank hypocrisy by using Maher as an example *may* be defending Limbaugh, but it's still not defending his particular behavior, it's a call for equal treatment. Again, if Maher's behavior is portrayed as wrong, asking equal treatment for Limbaugh is not making a claim that Limbaugh's behavior was not *also* wrong.

Synova said...

I did not claim that Fluke failed to pull the heartstrings.

I said that she was supposed to be qualified to address Congress in an official capacity on no other virtue than her reproductive organs.

And how does a friend's terrible medical condition that would most certainly *not* be considered a contraceptive issue have anything to do with either religious freedom or the mandate that women not have co-pays?

Oh, it doesn't. It pulls the heartstrings.

Why not testify about a man dying of prostrate cancer? I'm sure that would be heart rending as well. But he'd be a *man* and men don't get virtue through their reproductive organs.

How does any of the heart rending address the ridiculous notion that the federal government has to mandate employers provide dedicated nursing rooms or breast pumps? I've nursed four human beings and I can't even comprehend the moron that thought this was a necessary thing. We worked so dang *hard* to get everyone over the idea that nursing had to be shut away from public view, and here some idiot is undoing that in one fell swoop.

Lord save us from the do-gooders.

36fsfiend said...

Synova,

The whole issue with pointing out that Maher and others on the Left have use contemptible language towards women is entirely an exercise in saying “See, the Left does it too.”

It detracts from the issue at hand which concerns women’s health, the mandate and religious freedoms.

Synova said...

I know I go on about it, but after the *real* hearings that's what Pelosi said... she didn't say that they needed someone with Constitutional law experience, or theological experience or anything else. What she said was that it was a shame there was not a *woman* asked to testify. The qualification was *woman*... not something else.

I understand that I can not express just how insulting that is. OMG! I've got a vagina! That means you should listen to my very important opinion!

Unless I don't have the right opinion, then my vagina is an invalid vagina. I can be insulted with nasty words and it's only the truth. I'm no longer special because of my vagina, I no longer deserve coddling and protection.

It's so incredibly stupid.

Fluke should be treated like an adult. And no MAN with a few stories of friends and anecdotes of female sadness would have been asked to testify alongside experts in Law and Theology.

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“I said that she was supposed to be qualified to address Congress in an official capacity on no other virtue than her reproductive organs.”

Well, what in your judgment would make someone more qualified than Fluke to speak on the issue of contraception and women’s health?

“And how does a friend's terrible medical condition that would most certainly *not* be considered a contraceptive issue have anything to do with either religious freedom or the mandate that women not have co-pays?”

It an issue about birth control pills which could have helped the woman’s condition. From my understanding, 3/5ths of women taking birth control pills do so for reasons other than birth control.

Synova said...

It's not even about women's health.

Making it about women's health is already an idiotic distraction.

Someone stuck some freebies into a bill so enormous that it had to be "passed to find out what's in it" and those freebies were non-medical handouts for women. Why not mandate heart medicine or epilepsy drugs? Why not make everything free if it impacts urinary health? No co-pays for kidney stones?

It's not about women's health.

It's about government over reach, and if people can be cowed (ha! a mammary pun!) into bowing to some trumped up "war against women" and let the freebies slide, then there is NOTHING else that can be denied. Nothing.

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“Fluke should be treated like an adult. And no MAN with a few stories of friends and anecdotes of female sadness would have been asked to testify alongside experts in Law and Theology.”

I would have do doubt that if Congress was having a hearing on an issue concerning men’s health and all those giving testimony where women there certainly would have be men in Congress squawking about that.

Synova said...

"It an issue about birth control pills which could have helped the woman’s condition. From my understanding, 3/5ths of women taking birth control pills do so for reasons other than birth control."

Lots of people take medicine because without the drug they will DIE and they still will have co-payments.

Why can't women needing hormone treatment for a condition make a co-payment? Why is it *denying* them, to ask them to have the same treatment as actual sick people?

(And since non-contraceptive use is generally not a problem for the Catholic church, that's a made-up issue as well. In fact, so made-up it counts as a bold faced lie to imply that there is danger of having treatment denied.)

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“It's not even about women's health.”

How can you possibly state that an issue about birth control pills is not an issue about women’s heath? That be like saying that an issue involving chemotherapy has nothing to do with cancer patients.

“It's about government over reach, and if people can be cowed (ha! a mammary pun!) into bowing to some trumped up "war against women" and let the freebies slide, then there is NOTHING else that can be denied. Nothing.”

Well, as I responded to Just Lurking, as far as the trumped up claim about a “war against women", I’ll let the facts speak for themselves:

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2012/01/05/endofyear.html

Synova said...

"I would have do doubt that if Congress was having a hearing on an issue concerning men’s health and all those giving testimony where women there certainly would have be men in Congress squawking about that."

If the hearing was actually on men's health and not something else and if all the women were *doctors* and specialists with actual, you know, *relevance*, then I bet there would be no squawking at all.

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“Why can't women needing hormone treatment for a condition make a co-payment? Why is it *denying* them, to ask them to have the same treatment as actual sick people?”

Well, all I can say is if it’s such a big issue then why haven’t we seen any major push back from the insurance companies?

“(And since non-contraceptive use is generally not a problem for the Catholic Church, that's a made-up issue as well. In fact, so made-up it counts as a bold faced lie to imply that there is danger of having treatment denied.)”

Does the Catholic Church permit women to take birth control pills for medical reasons besides birth control?

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“If the hearing was actually on men's health and not something else and if all the women were *doctors* and specialists with actual, you know, *relevance*, then I bet there would be no squawking at all.”

Well, since the issue most certainly affects women’s health, maybe it would have been wise for Issa to include a couple of women doctors on his panel.

Synova said...

Seriously?

It's not about women's health.

"Women's health" is a code word used for any medical treatment to thwart reproduction. It's a euphemism for abortion, most of the time.

The problem is, nearly everything euphemistically referred to as "women's health" is both elective and unhealthy. Any surgical procedure has risk. Taking hormones messes you up in lots of small ways that are not well understood. Promiscuity is very dangerous for men and for women.

But if other people want to make those choices for their own lives, that's their choice. But it's not about *health*.

No one, no one at all, is being denied treatment or even normal, equal coverage for medical issues in order to remain healthy or cure a disease. No one is suggesting they ought to be.

Synova said...

"Well, since the issue most certainly affects women’s health, maybe it would have been wise for Issa to include a couple of women doctors on his panel."

Or a female expert on the Constitution or a woman theologian.

Since Issa's panel wasn't about women's health.

Pelosi could have found someone like that, you know.

But young, cute, and possessing a vagina and the ability to tell heart rending stories was more important.

It really is insulting. Are there no *accomplished* women around? Of course there are. But women aren't important because of their accomplishments.

Synova said...

"Does the Catholic Church permit women to take birth control pills for medical reasons besides birth control?"

Yes, and if you weren't listening to lying Flukes you'd know that.

She *deserves* derision.

Michael Haz said...

36 said:

"Well, I’m assuming, and maybe wrongly, that a majority of Conservatives are faithful to a religion, particularly Christianity. If that is in fact the case, should they not hold themselves to a higher standard than Maher who is professed atheist? Why would they wish to become what they despise?

You're stipulating that a majority of liberals are not faithful to any religious beliefs, and are therefore held to a lower standard of behavior?

Mighty thin ice.

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“It's not about women's health.”

Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

“Since Issa's panel wasn't about women's health.”

Again, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think a panel made up of constitutional scholars split evenly between men and women witnesses would have been more ideal.

“Yes, and if you weren't listening to lying Flukes you'd know that.”

I’ve read over her testimony and I didn’t see any specific discussion about the Catholic Church’s position on the use of birth control pills for purposes other than contraception. If they permit the use of birth control pills for other conditions I would have to ask why her friend with the ovarian cyst was not covered.

36fsfiend said...

Michael,

Well, as I understand one of the differences between the Republicans and Democrats is that the Republicans claim the position of supporting family values and religion. They are the ones making the claim religious freedoms are under assault in this issue.

If the Republicans are making the claim they are the party advocating religion, then it seems to me they would hold themselves to a higher standard than those on the Left. Indeed, I would have expected to see the same level of condemnation of Limbaugh’s behavior from the Right as I have seen on the Left if they were truly concerned about behavior that is not suitable for families or does not reflect Christian teachings since a majority on the Right belong to that faith.

Michael said...

Maher is like George Carlin, if Carlin was doing Johnny Carson's topical monologue. Which is to say, nothing like George Carlin...

WestVirginiaRebel said...

Maher doesn't seem to remember that Rush has appeared onstage-at CPAC and elsewhere.

jeff said...

"You know what, Rush, when you can stand up in front of an audience of 3,000 people all the time like I do and make them spill their fuckin' guts out and laugh their asses off for 90 minutes, you're a comedian. "

As someone else pointed out, there was the Rush for Excellence tour in the early 90's. I saw it in Wichita. This was before he was the name he is now and he had no problems filling the venues. Probably around 5K in the one I attended. If Maher was trying to support himself only as a stand up comedian, he would go broke. There is no one sober who has a passing familiarity with Carlin that would compare the two of them. there are some exceedingly funny comedians who are to the left of Stalin, but Maher isn't even in the top 100.

The Crack Emcee said...

This is all pointless drivel. You all ought to be ashamed of yourselves. You're all liars looking for advantage. Is this important? No. This is important:

Clinton’s sexual proclivities were everything, but who mentions the cruel errand that Clinton went on in the fall of 1992, when—interrupting his campaign in New Hampshire—he flew to Little Rock to sign the governor’s execution order of Ricky Ray Rector, a mentally deficient man, and a helpless victim of the system. Clinton in assisting in the murder of this man wanted to prove to New Hampshire voters that he was a hard-liner on crime, yet in the recent PBS four-hour documentary which is loaded with Lewinskiana there is no mention of this melancholy murder.


Killing black defenseless men. That's the kind of shit none of you assholes want to talk about. Or how about this?

In the Book of Mormon “the great whore of all the earth,” the Whore of Babylon, is the Catholic Church—words that must have tripped off Mitt Romney’s tongue many times, in his role as bishop in his readings to his flock. This most American of religions, cooked up by one of our more priapic prophets, had sex on the brain from the moment Joseph Smith crouched under a blanket and dictated the book to the first of his many wives.


Putting THAT in the White House is what you jackasses are after, but attacking Bill Maher won't hide what should be your shame. Now:

Vet Romney or shut the fuck up.

jeff said...

"The whole issue with pointing out that Maher and others on the Left have use contemptible language towards women is entirely an exercise in saying “See, the Left does it too.”"

Sigh. The entire issue is to ask the question "this is outrageous behavior. So is that" Everyone already knows the left does it too, the question is why the selective outrage?

"Well, since the issue most certainly affects women’s health, maybe it would have been wise for Issa to include a couple of women doctors on his panel."

Sure thing. What expertise in the first amendment would a woman dr (or man dr for that matter) bring to the table?

""Well, I’m assuming, and maybe wrongly, that a majority of Conservatives are faithful to a religion, particularly Christianity."
I'm conservative and agnostic. You are caught in the simplistic trap that all conservatives are social conservatives. But since you are focusing on the false issue of birth control rather than the first amendment, I suspect all this misunderstanding of the issues is intentional.

Michael Haz said...

@36 - Stop tying yourself into a knot with your misguided effort to make religion the topic. It isn't.

Bad behavior is bad behavior, period. If liberals were at all rational they would understand that. They aren't. They don't.

End of story.

Synova said...

"I would have to ask why her friend with the ovarian cyst was not covered."

Can you imagine the outrage if you asked *anything* about a poor lady who had an ovarian cyst?

36fsfiend said...

jeff said...

“Sigh. The entire issue is to ask the question "this is outrageous behavior. So is that" Everyone already knows the left does it too, the question is why the selective outrage?”

Jeff,

Not that I’m condoning Maher’s or the behavior of others on the left, but do you seriously think that a comedian doing a one-liner about a public figure or celebrity is that same as Limbaugh going on a continuous three day assault against a private citizen where he didn’t even honesty address her testimony?

“Sure thing. What expertise in the first amendment would a woman dr (or man dr for that matter) bring to the table?”

What experience does a bishop or a religious figure bring to the table in regards to the constitutionality of a rule or law? I would think they would be biased towards their own faith?

“I'm conservative and agnostic. You are caught in the simplistic trap that all conservatives are social conservatives. But since you are focusing on the false issue of birth control rather than the first amendment, I suspect all this misunderstanding of the issues is intentional.”

Republicans claim to be the party that supports family values and religion, correct? And I do agree it’s a First Amendment issue in regards to the separation of church and state. I’m not comfortable with the idea of a religious organization pushing for an exemption to a public rule that will impact individuals who work at these religious affiliated institutions who are not members of the faith in question.

Jim Treacher said...

Watching Bill Maher squirm is wonderful.

36fsfiend said...

Michael Haz said...

“@36 - Stop tying yourself into a knot with your misguided effort to make religion the topic. It isn't.

Bad behavior is bad behavior, period. If liberals were at all rational they would understand that. They aren't. They don't.

End of story.”

So the supposed assaults on “Religious Freedoms” and the Blunt and Rubio amendments concerning exemptions on religious beliefs are just BS, is that correct?

You are either for religion or not. But don’t claim you are for religion and then attempt to turn a blind eye when someone on your side does not act accordingly or start squawking about what they do on the left.

Synova said...

"In the Book of Mormon “the great whore of all the earth,” the Whore of Babylon, is the Catholic Church—words that must have tripped off Mitt Romney’s tongue many times, in his role as bishop in his readings to his flock. This most American of religions, cooked up by one of our more priapic prophets, had sex on the brain from the moment Joseph Smith crouched under a blanket and dictated the book to the first of his many wives.
"

Heh.

Lutherans, at least the conservative sorts, are big on that Whore of Babylon thing. Even so, it's *nothing* compared to how the Mormon church is described.

I don't see the problem since neither Lutherans, Catholics, nor Mormons plan to do anything about it beyond soul poaching through doctrinal language shenanigans, and no one admits the validity of the other side's shenanigans.

Clinton killing a mentally retarded black man is disgusting and something anyone should take seriously. If people don't talk about it, though, it's probably because there is no disagreement that it was a repulsive thing to do, no chance to vote against Clinton anymore, and no way to bring the man back again. All of the capital cases I've heard of recently seemed to be clearly cases of a very guilty, mentally competent, person facing execution. Maybe no one should be executed, but that's a different argument.

Synova said...

"You are either for religion or not. But don’t claim you are for religion and then attempt to turn a blind eye when someone on your side does not act accordingly or start squawking about what they do on the left."

How about if you're *for* the 1st Amendment?

Do you have to "act accordingly" in order to be for the 1st Amendment?

36fsfiend said...

Synova said...

“How about if you're *for* the 1st Amendment?

Do you have to "act accordingly" in order to be for the 1st Amendment?”

Well, if it’s a First Amendment issue about religion what does Maher’s behavior have to do with it?

Ken Mitchell said...

Ann writes: "Rush doesn't do theater shows".....

He doesn't ANY MORE, but he used to do his "Rush to Excellence" stage shows, and did those for about 3 years. Yes, it's been a while, but he did, and knows how it's done.

setnaffa said...

There are no "sections" or "clauses" in the First Amendment. Free religion, speech, press, peaceable assembly, and petitioning the government are all different facets of the same gem.

If we allow someone to take any of these away from "unpopular" groups, we are setting ourselves up for losing all of them.

Don't let asshats provoke you into allowing it.

yashu said...

Crack,

"Vetting" Romney by scrutinizing an isolated passage-- an isolated *metaphor*-- which appears in the Book of Mormon, makes as much sense as vetting Santorum by scrutinizing an isolated passage, an isolated metaphor that appears in the Catholic Bible. There's plenty of eyebrow-raising stuff to be found there, too.

Vetting Romney by judging the vices of Joseph Smith: vetting Santorum by judging the vices of this Pope or other.

The problems I (and others) have with Santorum-- and what we considered "vetting"-- has nothing to do with Santorum's Catholicism, the doctrine or theology or texts of his religion, but what he as an individual and pubic figure has said and done. I vet a man by looking at his own actions, his own words, his own choices.

How does looking at an isolated metaphorical figure that appears in the Book of Mormon constitute any kind of vetting of Romney? And how is that in any way comparable to the Clinton case-- which is a despicable action, a despicable choice taken by him as an individual and public figure?

Just Lurking said...

@Crack MC
This is all pointless drivel.

Quite true. But it is entertaining to see this ginned up outrage backfire on those promoting it.

I believe in free speech for all, so I don't care what Maher or Limbaugh or CK say. If I don't like their acts, I turn the channel. (I will admit that the Olbermann line creeped me out, because it was such ugly, violent imagery. I'm not made of stone after all.)

And if people feel compelled to boycott over something someone said, I say go for it. It's their right.

What I don't like is the hypocrisy of those expecting Repubs or conservatives to repudiate or apologize for Limbaugh, when they expect no such apology from Obama or Dems for the nasty things said by Olbermann and others. It's bullshit and deserves pushback. And the idea that conservatives need to be held to a higher standard because libs are immoral, or some such nonsense, is laughable.

Like I said at the onset, a lot of nonsense over nothing.

yashu said...

Moreover, what Clinton did he did in his role as governor-- which is directly relevant to the question of how he would act as POTUS. It tells us something about what his *political* character is like (as opposed to his "private" character, so to speak, though of course these are interrelated).

There's plenty to criticize for Romney for, looking at his record as governor. Why not focus on that?

Like you, I'm an atheist. I don't get why Romney's Mormonism is supposed to scare me any more than any other candidate's religion. Especially when there is no evidence whatsoever in Romney's political record, his record as governor, that his Mormonism played any role or had any influence in his policies, actions, choices as executive.

yashu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
yashu said...

I.e. any influence beyond his Christianity (taking Mormonism to be a form of Christianity, in a wide sense), and how this might have influenced him regarding certain social conservative issues, such as abortion.

Anyway, sorry for going off topic.

yashu said...

One last thing, Crack. I said: like you, I'm an atheist. But I'm not an atheist like you. That would be an interesting topic for another day.

Just Lurking said...

I said:
What I don't like is the hypocrisy of those expecting Repubs or conservatives to repudiate or apologize for Limbaugh, when they expect no such apology from Obama or Dems for the nasty things said by Olbermann and others. It's bullshit and deserves pushback.

BTW- in case it is unclear, I don't want or expect an apology from Obama, or Olbermann or Maher or Louis CK. etc.; and I don't want or expect an apology from conservatives over Limbaugh. The perpetually offended shtick is tiresome to me.

george said...

The funny thing about all of the Palin hate is that she has lived as clean a life as a politician has ever lived. She has never done anything scandalous or taken positions far outside the norm.

The only thing she is guilty of is thinking for herself and that is the one thing the left can never allow women to start doing. That is why she is a threat.

Gary W Kibble said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tiger said...

I wouldn't call myself a fan of Rush but he doesn't bother me.

Except for this:
The ONLY time he trots out the
'I use obsurdity to fight obsurdity' is when he gets his tongue caught in a wringer about some nonsense he's said.

This is nothing but his way of covering for himself; he knows it and anyone with a brain would know it, too, if they thought about it.

Nice to see the Left being shown as the hypocrites they are.

Arturo Ui said...

"How can Obama explain to Sasha and Malia that he's accepted a million bucks from a foul mouthed jerk who uses obscene terms for female genitalia against women he doesn't like?"


Obama hasn't accepted "a million bucks" from anyone. Maher donated $1 million to a pro-Obama Super PAC. Obama could not decline the money, or even encourage the declining of the money, if he wanted to. Citizens United...

Unknown said...

Yes, my dear wingnuts, life is unfair. Pass it on.

ZZMike said...

"But I'll compare him to Carlin: "

How about, "CK, you're no Carlin".

(From the debate between Democratic candidate Senator Lloyd Bentsen and Republican candidate Senator Dan Quayle, in 1988.)