January 24, 2012

"Newt is a Vessel: He Won South Carolina Because He Articulated Conservatism."

Speaking of articulation, I thought Rush Limbaugh articulated this really well on his show yesterday:
To those of you in the Republican base, this isn't complicated.  Newt is winning. He is on a momentum roll here because he can articulate conservatism, that and he's willing to take it to Obama.  I have said for the longest time that whoever does that, whoever articulates conservatism with passion, with love, cause that's love of country, with good cheer.... cannot be beat....

Now, this presents a huge stumbling block potential for Newt.  He is vulnerable on the very thing he can do better than anybody else.  He had better fully embrace his conservatism and not make it a part-time thing.  The days of being able to keep this momentum going by ripping on the media are over.  The standing ovations for taking on the media are over, or they have a very short life span.  He can't live on that anymore.  Been there, done that.  It's gonna get old and it's gonna look like it's been set up....
I was just talking to someone who expressed the belief that the standing Os were orchestrated, that — at the South Carolina debate — you can hear them begin and end as if a leader were giving hand motions.
Now, Newt keeps pushing off any questions on his anti-conservative statements.  And he better not.  I think Newt is just as vulnerable on his anti-conservatism as Romney is on Romneycare.  "What do you mean by that, Rush?"  Very simple.  Newt has made it plain two or three times that he's very open to the concept of manmade global warming.  He can blow this by sitting on the couch with Pelosi again or something that is equivalent.  Newt has in the past had some unflattering things to say about capitalism.  His time at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is a vulnerability. Saying that FDR is the best president, his favorite president, that doesn't jibe with being a conservative.  His open support for single payer health insurance with a mandate.  I'm just telling you, Newt's not out of the woods here....
So let a long campaign happen.  Let a long, drawn-out campaign happen, let's flush 'em out here....

135 comments:

mccullough said...

Newt is a shipwreck.

machine said...

Rush has spoken...all must obey!!


Science is blasphemy!!!!!

garage mahal said...

Newt has made it plain two or three times that he's very open to the concept of manmade global warming


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Peter said...

Newt has character issues. Character counts.

traditionalguy said...

Newt is the only Reagan Populist since the Gipper himself.

Rush needs to draw a middle ground. But he is missing a bow to the almighty "Electability God" that GOP voters worship with his blessings.

So how Right wing ideologue is the latest version of the Bush Family from Maine and Connecticut but strategically putting down roots/tentacles in the swing states of Texas and Florida.

I see Daniels as still a stalking horse for Jeb as he was 2 years ago.

cubanbob said...

Considering Obama is the embodiment of total disaster and failure a shipwreck appears to be the better of the two.


One thing for sure about Romney and Gingrich going at it hammer and tong, whoever ends up the nominee will be pretty much immune to Barry "I can't run on my record because its so awful" Obama and will be forced to the right a lot further than they might have otherwise been left to to their inclinations. A win-win .

mccullough said...

Traditionalguy,

Reagan was popular and likeable. Newt is neither. The messenger matters as much as the message.

chuck said...

Pseudo-Science is blasphemy.

FTFY. Crackpots, fraudsters, and political goof balls have brought science into disrepute. And I'm not talking about Republicans.

Original Mike said...

"Newt is a Vessel: He Won South Carolina Because He Articulated Conservatism."

I think this is exactly right.

NYTNewYorker said...

Who? Jeb Bush? No way...I think.

Draft Jeb Bush

Cedarford said...

Yeah, and Barry Goldwater and Pat Buchanan and Sharron Angle and perky Christine O'Donnell were also unelectable "vessels" that articulated purist conservatism or "channeled right-wing anger" and doomed their party's chances in winnable elections.

Fen said...

was just talking to someone who expressed the belief that the standing Os were orchestrated, that — at the South Carolina debate — you can hear them begin and end as if a leader were giving hand motions.

Yah, I know that guy. He tried to sell me a Mayan Apocalypse Calender that ends Dec 21st. Right after explaining how the Jooos had taken over the Illuminati.

traditionalguy said...

Newt is a vessel of American Tradition. He learned it from the same men that I learned it from, and it is glorious.

He has had a long career like a good trial lawyer who has represented some good, some bad and and some ugly clients and their agendas in the past. So what!

We really need to hire him. He fights and his goal are pure Reagan Populism.

edutcher said...

As always, El Rushbo nails it.

And a lot of people won't want to hear themselves reminded of what they themselves were saying a couple of months ago.

machine said...

Rush has spoken...all must obey!!

No, that's the difference between Conservatives and Lefties. Conservatives can disagree and debate.

Lefties call you nasty names and blacklist you if you don't fall in lockstep.

But a lot of people will be talking about this.

Science is blasphemy!!!!

I think he means silence, but, hey, he's babbling.

traditionalguy said...

The first Republican President was a strange looking man, not easily liked by anyone, and whose only skills were debate skills he learned as a smalltown trial lawyer in Springfield, Illinois.

chuck b. said...

"whoever articulates conservatism with passion"

Were Bachmann and Santorum without passion, or not articulating conservatism?

Sometimes I feel like being "a true conservative" is like being a true communist. You know the trope: We can't say it doesn't work because no one has really tried it.

Cedarford said...

cubanbob said...
Considering Obama is the embodiment of total disaster and failure a shipwreck appears to be the better of the two.

===============
The stupidest thing rightwingers now think is that they can have a masturbatory feel good moment or two and that the country will then vote for Newt over a few pithy debate bon mots Gingrich throws out against Obama or "the dang Elitists".

Not true. Their great fallacy is thinking that the country hates Obama so much that even an unpopular, extremely disliked conservative with a ton of sleazy baggage like Newt will easily beat him.

Gingrich will not. It will be like Harry Reid - judged politically dead and richly deserving of being booted from office being handed the Gift of Sharron Angle and another 6 years in office thanks to brain-dead conservatives who "hearted her spunk".

Richard Dolan said...

Rush didn't have such a great track record last go-around. Wasn't he on the bandwagon for Christine O'Donnell, Sharon Angle and Ken Buck? It's time for adult supervision, not the right's version of Hope 'n Change. Obama can't win it, but the Reps can certainly lose it. If Newt's the nominee, he's going to need a meltdown in Europe or some other event causing a nosedive in the economy to get the country to dump the incumbent and take a flyer on him.

damikesc said...

Science is blasphemy!!!!!

To call a belief in AGW "science" is truly blasphemous.

The first Republican President was a strange looking man, not easily liked by anyone

By almost any count known, Lincoln was an incredibly likeable guy.

His wife, however....

Writ Small said...

The left-wing environmental movement disguised as science known as Climate Change, Newt was for it.

The left wing, guilt-driven housing scheme with cozy kickbacks known as Freddie Mac, Newt was a paid consultant.

The cornerstone principle of left-wing federal government takeover of health care known as the individual mandate, Newt was for it.

This is our conservative spokesman. You think he's going to stick with the party that's about to wed themselves to him once prettier things - namely the ideas that spring so effortlessly from his great mind - come along?

Chef Mojo said...

The only thing that matters is that we know Newt will take the fight to Obama. The rest is minutiae. I want someone who'll put Obama through a meat grinder, and not let up. Someone who'll do everything McCain wouldn't do.

Obama has had 4 years to coast. Maybe someone should get around to vetting him. Newt's just the guy to do it.

Coketown said...

I think it was poor sound mixing that gave Newt's standing ovations the illusion of being orchestrated. The producers probably transitioned too quickly between the mics directed at the audience and the mic beneath Gingrich's flapping jowls. I mean, it's a Republican debate; it isn't hard to induce standing ovations. I've heard this effect on several live album recordings, where the audience is silenced so quickly once the music starts that it sounds like a laugh-track.

machine said...

Ed, are you kidding?

Reagan's 11th commandment forbids open disagreement!!! A commandment for gosh sakes...

I read many blogs and once something is stated on one conservative blog it is repeated all day/all week on all the others.

And if one disagrees (Frum, Bartlett, Sullivan, LGF) they are banned from the fold.

Nice try...

damikesc said...

And if one disagrees (Frum, Bartlett, Sullivan, LGF) they are banned from the fold.

If one spends all of their time simply griping about Republicans (Frum, Bartlett), engage in deranged investigations of people's uterus (Sullivan) or are virulent bigots whose next useful contribution to society will be in fertilizing the Earth (whomever the neo-Nazi running LGF is) --- then, yes, they are free to leave.

Not so much with Democrats. Even if you're a criminal like Dodd, you're good. Run prostitution rings out of your apartment like Frank? Solid member. A pedophile like Studds? A hero.

Cedarford said...

traditionalguy said...
The first Republican President was a strange looking man, not easily liked by anyone, and whose only skills were debate skills he learned as a smalltown trial lawyer in Springfield, Illinois.

============
You evidently never read a thing about Lincoln past your 6th grade textbook.
Lincoln was a militia commander, a man with many loyal lifetime friends, faithful to a difficult wife.
His skills were such that he was one of the premier coroprate lawyers of his day, with his own private train, closing deals with state legislators, shippers, ground cartage firms in what was the biggest domestic money project of his day...building the transporation logistics system that would open up the American midwest agriculture and mineral resources to Eastern and global markets. A system that centered on Lincoln's paymasters new rail system and Mississippi and Ohio River shipping.

Lincoln was a superb executive corporate lawyer and deal-maker.

He was someone deemed of high integrity and character.

He also was adept at dealing with "the other side".

Jon Burack said...

Rush is right as far as he goes. Newt is no conservative. Yet the "conservative" base Rush loves is for a brief moment enthralled with him. But why is that, Rush? Could it have something to do with the flaws in what passes for conservative "thinking" these days? Could that be why the "conservative" base flits from one non- or semi-conservative to another willy nilly?

Never of course can we question the base in ITS conservativism, however. The base is alway sacrosanct. Except that at the moment the base does not have any more of a clue about how to get the nation back on track than the left does. Rather than do the hard work of facing the contradictions and inadequacies in its own world view, it defaults to hatred and demonization every bit as much as the left does. For every Koch there is a Soros. How satisfying. Meanwhile, how DO you keep Medicare solvent or replace it with something the electorate can see will work? How do you maintain the U.S. leadership role in the world in an age of debt and deficit when defense budgets are dropping? How do you rev' up the economy while also paving the way for a real effort to reign in spending? Instead of "tax the rich," we have "no knew taxes." One set of Ten Commandments versus another. Very few conservatives have answers to these questions that anyone can believe. Since the same is true of the left, our politics rocks back and forth between one facile holier-than-thou stance and the other. Will Rush lead the way out of that morass? Do I have to even ask?

Jay said...

machine said...

Reagan's 11th commandment forbids open disagreement!!!


Actually, no it doesn't.

But you're a silly troll, so we have the bar set low for you.

Jay said...

I read many blogs and once something is stated on one conservative blog it is repeated all day/all week on all the others.


Hysterical bit of projection there.

I guess that is why all those right wing journalists and bloggers were involved in journolist.

OOPS!

edutcher said...

machine said...

Ed, are you kidding?

Reagan's 11th commandment forbids open disagreement!!! A commandment for gosh sakes...


The automaton has been a Lefty and a Demo way too long.

All the Gipper said was don't give the bad guys any more ammo than you have to; disagree all you want, but don't diss the guy/girl.

Reagan loved a good debate and encouraged it, but we can all understand how such arcane concepts could elude the automaton's comprehension.

Seven Machos said...

Why can't Althouse get a better leftist commentariat? Why do they know so little?

As for Gingrich, he is simply the latest candidate in a rather long list that the conservatives have happened upon because they yearn for some authentic conservative. The less this allegedly authentic conservative is sullied by reality, the better. Thus, you had Palin, viewed as a veritable saint, and then two grossly inexperienced people in Bachmann and Cain.

Now, for reasons God only knows, these authenticity seekers have settled on one Newt Gingrich -- a full and complete Washington insider for over 20 years who is chummy with the press, who is worried about global warming, and who supported forced health care insurance before it was even cool.

And I thought 2008 was fascinating. Strange times, people. Strange times.

Cedarford said...

People are now looking at Newt's scary negatives with moderates and independents.
As McCollough said, even though Reagan had some wild conservative notions, there was something likable and non-threatening about him despite some forays into nuttiness like saying Redwood trees polluted more than cars did.

This cycle, you have Ron Paul as extreme, but deemed personally likable and a man of honest beliefs - across various demographic groups.

Ron Pauls national "positives" over negatives have him at +4 with general election voters, Obama at +5, Romney at +7.
In head-to-head with likely voters in a general election, Ron Paul scores at the same level as Romney. Roughly 2 points behind Obama.

But Newts negatives are already at -24, and he loses to Obama head-to-head, by 15 points.

So true believing conservatives might be in for some rough shocks about Newt. Not just more surprises about his past actions and personal character deficiencies and dislikability negatives rising further...

But:

1. His impact on the Congressional and state elections. You run with a widely hated, polarizing candidate heading the ticket, the whole down ticket can suffer tremendously.

2. Survival of some running for election may come down to completely disassociating themselves from the candidate. What happened with Goldwater, McGovern, and John Kerry to some extent.

3. What angry right-wing conservatives consider a "win" by Newt...a nasty, vituperative little demagogue on stage railing against Dems, media, the rich, the lazy poor, and lake of Bold, Fundamental, Planet-transforming Big Ideas only his vast mind can grasp..could lead to even more alienation from a general electorate.

Keep in mind that Newt was the most hated politician in America in the late 1990s, with approval numbers in the 16-18% level, with negatives in the 60% range.

Andy R. said...

He is on a momentum roll here because he can articulate conservatism, that and he's willing to take it to Obama.

No, it's because the Republicans don't want to nominate Romney, and Newt is next in line. The problem is that they don't want to nominate Newt either, and Newt is the end of the line.

Pragmatist said...

God, this is so funny! The very thing that might make it at least within the realm of possiblity is the very thing he should be wary about. By all means, stick to your "conservative principles" and spit into the eye of sanity. Any time Newt makes a comment that does not sound bug fuck crazy the Right winces and worries. Please nominate Newt...lets hear the family value candidate defend his. If Bill is bad because of his "morality" why is Newt good to go? Oh, one is a Dem and the other a Rep. Lets listen to the ultimate insider talk as if he is going to clean up washington. Lets hear again about how the economy tanked after Obama got in office and we need the same cast of characters from 2000-2008 to fix it again. Maybe they will end the wars Obama started and close down Gitmo. Hee hee. Please, nominate that guy. Not the poor guy who has to keep trying to dumb down his talk to get votes from a bunch of tea bagging rabble rousers.

Gumby said...

Why can't Althouse get a better leftist commentariat?
Any blog post citing Rush Limbaugh is not worthy of a response.

James said...

Anyone who listens to Rush would know that he isn't favoring any of the candidates and he has not endorsed Newt or anyone else.

He's simply pointing out the principal reason for Newt's recent success; not that he thinks Newt should be President or even the Republican candidate.

Seven Machos said...

Any blog post citing Rush Limbaugh is not worthy of a response.

You responded, you stupid fucking dipshit.

edutcher said...

Andy R. said...

He is on a momentum roll here because he can articulate conservatism, that and he's willing to take it to Obama.

No, it's because the Republicans don't want to nominate Romney, and Newt is next in line. The problem is that they don't want to nominate Newt either, and Newt is the end of the line.


As always, Hatman talks out his hat, as if he knows anything.

A good many Republicans want Milton.

Some Republicans have temporarily forgotten Barry's the enemy, not Milton.

When gas prices hit $5, the Occupiers want war in the streets (a whiff of grape, Cap'n Bragg?), and the Eurozone collapse hits us, they'll remember.

Seven Machos said...

Andy is an anti-Christian bigot -- as bad as any racist or anti-Semite.

Jay said...

Lets hear again about how the economy tanked after Obama got in office and we need the same cast of characters from 2000-2008 to fix it again

Newt was not in office in that time.
You're incoherent.

Maybe they will end the wars Obama started and close down Gitmo. Hee hee.

Maybe Obama was lying when he said he would close Gitmo as it is still open.

Hee

Hee

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AprilApple said...

To beat up Romney, Newt bashed capitalism just recently.

Seven Machos said...

Jay -- Indeed. This leftist moron is hoping a Republican can close down Guantanamo Bay. Hilarious.

Sad, but hilarious.

ricpic said...

Bring the hate, Newt. Destroy the liberal love that pollutes our precious bodily fluids.

Lem said...

I heard those comments by Rush.. and I remember thinking.. praying somebody would communicate them to Newt.. and then later that night, I heard Hannity interview the former Speaker.. and I heard Newt say those very words..

Sean.. “What do you think has changed recently?” “As people think through what it’ll take to defeat Obama, I think this race is consolidating into the fact that people want a candidate who is serious toward conservative government,” offered Gingrich..

Steve Koch said...

TradGuy: Comparing Newt to Reagan and Lincoln? Seriously?

---------------------------------

Re: Rush, he is great at what he does but Rush is all about Rush. He has a voracious need for content and nothing provides content like strife and discord. What Rush wants and needs is a chaotic GOP nomination process that generates lots of material for Rush's show.

Everybody has their own agenda and you have to interpret their words and actions accordingly.

Having said that, a competitive GOP nomination process is a good thing, let the eventual winner first prove that he has the political skills to beat Obama.

Chip Ahoy said...

Machines understand debate and conflict quite well. I saw it on Robot Wars and I heard quite a lot about drones.

Machines also understand trolling very well. I've had auto-dialers call me purporting to be humans. "Hello, this Bill Clinton. I've called you to discuss ..."

Machines understand snow in a big way. I've skied on it. It's not that great.

Bryan C said...

I think Rush says it well. Newt understands conservative positions and is willing to provide a vigorous and honest defense of those positions. Even if he, personally, doesn't wholeheartedly embrace them.

I'm sure all politicians do the same, to some extent, but Newt's been more openly agnostic than most. Is that good enough to become President? Should it be? I don't know. Newt's a fine devil's advocate, but would he be a good Pope?

Ah Pooh said...

Newt is a snake- oil salesman without the charm. These "bases". left and right, should forget polities and just stock up on Ivory soap. They'll do less harm.

Damon said...

Really? Wonder who this was. Probably the same bunch of idiots that don't believe that Obama's team had plants at the front of all their town halls even though it was extensively reported. And if you refuse to believe it, you certaintly can't grasp the significance.

"I was just talking to someone who expressed the belief that the standing Os were orchestrated, that — at the South Carolina debate — you can hear them begin and end as if a leader were giving hand motions."

Revenant said...

Newt is the only Reagan Populist since the Gipper himself.

Somebody's been drinkin' the Kool-Aid...

Nathan said...

Newt is an articulate prick, and whatever success he's had in the primary is due to deep personal animus many people feel toward the president. His candidacy is psychotherapy by proxy. He vents the frustrations of those disappointed with, angry at, or ashamed of President Obama, but he cannot win the general election. Obama will remain president, while Newt will sell copies of his books, and give many paid speeches, and be an in demand consultant of some kind, and be very happy with the outcome of his campaign.

ricpic said...

The conservative isn't perfect; let's all vote for the commie!

Revenant said...

The conservative isn't perfect; let's all vote for the commie!

The funny thing is that Gingrich is getting painted as the "conservative" alternative to Romney, but there is nothing about Gingrich that suggests he's any more of a conservative than Romney is.

He just has even less appeal to the swing voters Republicans will need if they want to win in 2012.

Alex said...

Obama will remain president..

This is what enrages pink-faced raging conservatives. Notice the veins popping on their enraged foreheads.

Alex said...

Newt is only winning right now because he's punched the MSM in the mouth and that's RED MEAT for conservative primary voters. That tactic won't sell to the mushy middle which only cares about policy.

Bryan C said...

"Now, for reasons God only knows, these authenticity seekers have settled on one Newt Gingrich"

Candor is often perceived as authenticity. Palin, Cain, Ron Paul, and Newt all have a talent for candor. When you're popular with the press, this is called "feisty". When you're not, it's just "angry".

Lack of candor is perceived as untrustworthy or evasive. When you're popular with the press, as is Obama, that's described as being "cerebral". When you're not so popular, as with Romney, it's "robotic".

TCB-n-a-Flash said...

Unfortunately the mushy middle doesn't pay attention to policy. That's why they're in the "middle". I'd say it's more like the sidelines. They lack depth, knowledge, and conviction. It is a shame our elections have to pander to the most un-involved and uninformed.

TCB-n-a-Flash said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hagar said...

Romney is a good manager, and he should concentrate on that and try to ignore Gingrich as much as possible.
The junkyard dog act does not come natural to him and does not become him.

Andy R. said...

Gingrich won't 'allow' moderators to silence crowd at future debates

I love how much of a joke Newt is.

damikesc said...

That tactic won't sell to the mushy middle which only cares about policy.

The "mushy middle" tends to be all about emotion. Logic is seldom important.

Joe said...

...he can articulate conservatism...

Maybe he can, but he mostly hasn't. He's mostly thrown out "witty" one liners that generate applause, but I hear precious little articulation of anything, let alone conservatism.

Gingrich isn't even "telling it like it is". He's just throwing bombs and being an asshole. I fail to see how this translates into governance. This is what Obama did during his campaign. How'd that work out?

traditionalguy said...

Just got back from the Courthouse. While driving I heard the first 2012 ad on radio, and it was by Gingrich's PAC. Spending $ in Georgia is not necessary, so it must have been to create a buzz all over the south

As to the huffs and puffs that Lincoln is a semi-god, those commenters are the ones who believe PR more than they believe real history.

It is true that everyone seems to have discovered they loved Lincoln all along the day after the surrender of Atlanta to Sherman's Army. But until then Licoln was seen as a disgraced country lawyer in over his head.

The run down of Lincoln's actual qualities by C-4 at 1:25 is a close analogy to Gingrich's actual qualities. But that was not accepted by the experts in Lincoln's day (until the War was won) any more than Gingrich is acceptable.

I just hope a President Gingrich doesn't suspend habeas corpus, declare private property forfeit, and tell the Professor's precious SCOTUS to use their own army to enforce their judgments.

Newt has been rattling his saber at those nine philosopher kings a lot lately. Hmmm.

damikesc said...

I love how much of a joke Newt is.

...says the man who supports a man who attacks "big banks and Wall Street" while accepting the nomination at a stadium named after one of the most hated banks in the US...

Alex said...

The "mushy middle" tends to be all about emotion. Logic is seldom important.

I think most people operate mostly on emotion rather then logic. How do you explain 70% of Americans are overweight, in debt? Most people are not willing to take a good, hard look at themselves and admit what the problem is.

Revenant said...

Palin, Cain, Ron Paul, and Newt all have a talent for candor.

Er... candor doesn't require talent. You just tell the truth.

What Newt has a talent for is lying convincingly. No matter where he currently sits on an issue he can keep a straight face when claiming it is the only position he's ever had, and that he's been a leader in advocating for that position since the 1980s. Thus he can appeal to the Tea Party despite being *exactly* the kind of Republican they arose in opposition to.

Alex said...

We're a fat, slob of a nation and these are the leaders we get. Yes, the bloated Newt Gingrich is the best we can do?

damikesc said...

It is true that everyone seems to have discovered they loved Lincoln all along the day after the surrender of Atlanta to Sherman's Army. But until then Licoln was seen as a disgraced country lawyer in over his head.

Politically, yes. A lot of the North felt the war was never going to end and grew to loathe his policies.

Lincoln the PERSON was always immensely likeable.

Alex said...

The POTUS candidate that promises the most goodies to the unemployed and disenfranchised will win. Newt will try to out-liberal Obama, just you wait.

Alex said...

Men who could articulate conservatism were Milton Friedman, Ronald Reagan. Is there anyone in their mold now?

phx said...

The "mushy middle" must be like a Rorschach where people project their emotional responses.

You never know what's gonna happen (mushy middle caveat), but I think the moderates will decide this election.

damikesc said...

I think most people operate mostly on emotion rather then logic.

True, but I wasn't the one mentioning how the mushy middle is all about policy.

That was somebody else. Any idea who?

How do you explain 70% of Americans are overweight, in debt? Most people are not willing to take a good, hard look at themselves and admit what the problem is.

Indeed. At least 42% of the population will vote for Obama and God knows he is THE problem right now.

Alex said...

Lincoln showed poor judgement marrying Mary Ann Todd. She really knew how to pile up their personal debts and treat Congressmen with rudeness.

Alex said...

At least 42% of the population will vote for Obama and God knows he is THE problem right now.

Do you ever stop and ask an Obama voter why they like him? It's very informative. It's either because he's black, supports poor people or they're just a Democrat and they will never vote for a Republican.

I mean what would it take for garage to become a conservative?

Alex said...

You never know what's gonna happen (mushy middle caveat), but I think the moderates will decide this election.

What makes them moderates? Really I'd like some proof on this. Who gets to define moderate anyway?

damikesc said...

I mean what would it take for garage to become a conservative?

An education?

And I have to work around Obama supporters. That he can sing, literally, is a major reason several of them are voting for him now.

tim in vermont said...

I was totally unaware that liberals didn't like Rush. My goodness.

There concern for our affairs is founded in the best of intentions too.

These are the kind of guys I think of when I step into the booth, that's for sure.

People who think I am some kind of knuckle dragging subhuman with no right to a voice in a democracy. It is only in my best interests they say this mind you, and I accept that they are smarter than me so I vote how they tell me.

Alex said...

People who think I am some kind of knuckle dragging subhuman with no right to a voice in a democracy.

I'm sure garage does not think conservatives are knuckle-dragging subhumans.

Steve Koch said...

"I just hope a President Gingrich doesn't suspend habeas corpus, declare private property forfeit, and tell the Professor's precious SCOTUS to use their own army to enforce their judgments."

Not to worry, none of that will happen because Newt will never be president. Sounds like you are not a big fan of Lincoln, what do you think of William Tecumseh Sherman?

traditionalguy said...

I respect Garage for being a good warrior for the other side. And he loves Labs.

When we win, we should give Garage a safe passage back to his own lines ...is that in Cuba or Venesuela?

Revenant said...

You never know what's gonna happen (mushy middle caveat), but I think the moderates will decide this election.

Well, we can't know for sure. What we do know is that the last time Gingrich was in the national spotlight taking on a Democratic President, he ended up alienating both the middle and a good portion of the right. He left Washington a few years later with a 25% approval rating.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I mean what would it take for garage to become a conservative?

A brain transplant

Steve Koch said...

"What makes them moderates? Really I'd like some proof on this. Who gets to define moderate anyway?"

The political spectrum has a left end and a right end. In between are the independents who are not with the either the right or the left. Since they are not on the extreme end, they are moderates.

Studying Althouse, somewhat of an independent, my impression is that independents tend to lack a consistent political philosophy but are unduly swayed by trivial considerations and want to vote for the candidate who is cool.

Rose said...

I am not interested in whether or not he is "conservative" in the sense that it is a box by which to define us.

I like his IDEAS, his clarity, his gung ho willingness to TRY.

Not to enact a nanny state, but to say "Get out there and prosper!" "Think!"

THINK! Beyond the easy rhetoric that has enveloped the media, for God's sake, be bigger than that. THAT'S Newt's appeal.

And, for all that is good about Romney and Santorum, and Paul, they don't have it.

garage mahal said...

I mean what would it take for garage to become a conservative?

Be comfortable in clown shoes?

phx said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

@ Steve Cook...Au contraire. Lincoln is the greates American after Washington.

I love Lincoln for his skills at jury trial communication that he took to DC with him and needed every day.

And I love Sherman for his intelligence and tactical skills. Except for one frontal assault up a mountain called Kennesaw Mountain, he made every right move.

Which reminds me Kennesaw State is next door to the battlefield and is in Newt's newer district. That was where he was "caught being paid" by a 501c3 for teaching a college course and said to be getting around contribution limits. That was Newt's mistake that Romney sneers about as Newt's bad ethics and what the Dems crucified him with until the investigation was closed.

And don't tell anyone. But I have already had to take down my blue uniformed General Sherman portrait to quit offending my fellow Atlantans whose great grandmothers starved after Sherman took all of their food on his way to Savannah.

Newt would never do that, or would he?

deborah said...

"I like his IDEAS, his clarity, his gung ho willingness to TRY."

Do or not do. There is no try. (Sorry.)


So what has Gingrich actually followed through on?

Triangle Man said...

Newt is a vassal of lobbyists.

tim in vermont said...

We all love labs, that doesn't prove anything...

Methadras said...

If Romneycare is all Mitt is vulnerable on, then it should be a no brainer. He's already said that he will issue a 50 state waiver and effectively nullify UrkelCare. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Because Romney is a milquetoast candidate, that's why. And that's why the polls are reflecting it and no one but me is saying it. HE IS MILQUETOAST!!!

Revenant said...

I like his IDEAS, his clarity, his gung ho willingness to TRY. Not to enact a nanny state, but to say "Get out there and prosper!" "Think!"

Those are the ideas he has THIS week. He spent the '00s as a lobbyist for the nanny state.

Jon Burack said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jon Burack said...

Jon Burack said...
I love the one about how people out there are emotional not logical. Like the logic on display here? Please.

The most interesting part of this thread now is the Lincoln stuff. On that, traditionguy is all wet. It is true Lincoln himself thought he would lose a second term as late as summer of 1864. Whether he was ever in all that much danger is doubtful. The fall of Atlanta may have been what saved him, but no one really knows that. In any case, he was prosecuting a war that had killed 200,000 to 300,000 Union soldiers by then, a vastly greater share of the tiny population of the North than any other war in our history. Yet he held the nation together, saw his way to victory, won the Civil War and ended slavery. To suggest he was the image of a wounded, unpopular politician is absurd. To equate him to Gingrich in any way, positive or negative, is laughable.

Lincoln faced a truly divided nation, the only time in our history really, and he did everything he could to conciliate while holding it together. Gingrich luxuriates in a perfectly stable and prosperous society (despite the current blips in the upward slope) and seeks to capitalize on all the worst fantasies of the enraged among us.

Crunchy Frog said...

I'm sure garage does not think conservatives are knuckle-dragging subhumans.

That would be giving them too much credit.

wv: unsceno - liberal compassion

traditionalguy said...

The great crime of being a consultant to FNMA was not influencing peddling.

Those deals are offered to and accepted by the men with a reputation for being hard opponents to beat.

The nature of the payments are not to aid the Company in its political activities. They do that on their own.

The real deal is accepting those payments preempts your being hired by others later on who may oppose the Company.

It is the anti-influence peddling payment because it buys a man's neutrality.

Now go into attack mode on Grinch Gingrich anyway, but that is what happened.

shiloh said...

"Rush has spoken...all must obey!!"

"Rush didn't have such a great track record last go-around. Wasn't he on the bandwagon for Christine O'Donnell, Sharon Angle and Ken Buck?"

"Any blog post citing Rush Limbaugh is not worthy of a response."

Like mittens, Althouse is also smitten w/Limbo as she has a soft spot for drug addicted, hypocritical, narcissistic bigots ie she has empathy. :)

>

Speaking of Althouse empathy ...

"you stupid fucking dipshit."

Indeed, Seven Machos is so eloquent Althouse is fortunate he contributes to her high-brow blog.

Pastafarian said...

"I mean what would it take for garage to become a conservative?"

He might start his own small business (and not some small business that depends upon government, like solar/unicorn-fart alternative energy, or caters to leftists like a head shop or butt-plug emporium.)

The week after garage starts his own machine shop, he'll come face-to-face with OSHA and EPA and the IRS and a dozen other 3 and 4 letter abominations, and he'll suddenly decide that he's always really been more of a libertarian than a liberal.

Saint Croix said...

What Mitt needs to do to win is attack Obama as viciously as he attacks Republicans. It is his politeness to Obama that is easily the scariest thing about Mitt. If he will not fight the fight, it's McCain II. His plan--it's so obvious--is to run against the right-wing and play like he's a moderate voice. South Carolina just told him fuck you. Either run as a right-wing Republican or stay home.

What's scary about Newt is superficial stuff. Every time I look at him, he looks like a fat, mean Scrooge. You know how long it's been since we've had a fat man in the White House? He is physically unattractive. We live in a superficial age, and people can be really stupid about this stuff. We want somebody who looks like a President. Newt does not.

So Republicans are divided. Are we going to nominate a flawed and articulate voice for our values? Or are we going to nominate some empty vacuous suit who looks and sounds Presidential?

Newt is also angry, and has no sense of humor. He should hire a gag writer or two. He needs humor. "No. But I will." That line was great because it's funny. More humor and Newt can win this thing.

The second worse thing about Mitt is that he is a quant, a nerd, a guy who loves to "swim in the data." I suspect Mitt of thinking he can actually run the economy from a room. A million Americans of ordinary intelligence are far smarter in the aggregate than a handful of Ivy League geniuses in a room. It's the brilliance of capitalism. I'm not sure Mitt Romney actually gets that. I suspect him of secretly wanting to run the economy and fix it.

And I have heard nothing about Newt that is meaner than Mitt driving to Canada with his dog on top of the car.

On the other hand, Mitt donated 15% of his income to charity. And as far as I can tell, he has not bragged about it or said one word about it. That is pretty awesome, in my book.

I like both of these guys better than Obama. And I'm happy and glad that we're vetting them and having a fight about this stuff now.

Revenant said...

It is the anti-influence peddling payment because it buys a man's neutrality. Now go into attack mode on Grinch Gingrich anyway, but that is what happened.

The funny thing is that you think that makes Newt sound better.

If he was a paid advocate at least he could say "I was a professional lobbyist and sometimes that means doing things you don't agree with". But if your story is true that means he took hush money to sit out a fight his (supposed) side was losing. Some fighter.

Writ Small said...

Newt's going to shut the government down if the audience can't cheer for him at the debates.

This made me chuckle.

The consensus is he lost narrowly to Romney last night, which Newt blamed on the stifled crowd. Assuming he's right, doesn't he realize that the presidential debates do not allow cheering at all?

Also, the two to three high stakes presidential debates are largely about expectations. Did he exceed or fall short are the usual questions. Newt supporters have done nothing but raise those expectations to a ridiculous degree.

Something for Newt fans to consider since his appeal rests almost exclusively on his strong debating skills.

Jay said...

It is the anti-influence peddling payment because it buys a man's neutrality.

You should probably read this and decide if Newt was doing any "anti-influence peddling."

Jay said...

Something for Newt fans to consider since his appeal rests almost exclusively on his strong debating skills.

His "go to my Web site" answer was pretty week and the long pause after Romney hit him with this stuff was too.

Newt looked tired and was not at his best last night.

David said...

The globe is warming.

Has been for 10,000 years now.

The question is, what is the human role? The hysterical certainty on this issue of the previous decade has been discredited. That does not settle the matter. Any sensible leader should be "open to the concept" of manmade global warming.

shiloh said...

"Assuming he's right, doesn't he realize that the presidential debates do not allow cheering at all?

Also, the two to three high stakes presidential debates are largely about expectations. Did he exceed or fall short are the usual questions. Newt supporters have done nothing but raise those expectations to a ridiculous degree."

Excellent point ie the exact opposite of mama grizzly whose expectations were zero.

One could say the SC yahoo crowd was totally unique. :D And Newt had all day to prepare for the opening question.

But hey, if Dems/Obama are lucky enough to have Newt as their opponent, Reps can take solace that SC is in the red column. ;)

Revenant said...

What Mitt needs to do to win is attack Obama as viciously as he attacks Republicans.

It is a good thing Republicans don't normally follow that strategy, or we'd have had eight years of Carter and eight of Gore. Americans want a leader, not someone who can win an insult contest.

What people are worried about is the economy. Wasting time with vicious attacks on a person a large majority of Americans still find personally likeable would be completely insane. They don't hate Obama, they just think he's failed to get us out of the mess we're in.

Talk about ending the give-aways to big business and Wall Street, talk about getting government out of the way so people can create jobs, talk about reforming the tax system. Do not talk about what an awful person Obama is unless your goal is a career in talk radio.

kcom said...

"You responded, you stupid fucking dipshit."

Heh.

David said...

If Jeb is going to get in, doesn't he have to do it soon? He has to go out and campaign, not have it handed to him in a deal. Would Jeb get in if Romney is still in the race? I doubt it.

If Newt wins decisively in Florida, that will be the time for Mitt to fold and Jeb to get in. If Florida is a draw or Mitt wins, I don't think you will see Jeb in this race.

Plus will Jeb do it? His refusal has been more convincing than most.

David said...

Of course I said flatly in a comment last week that Newt would not win SC. I'm the big expert, since I live in SC.

So like the other experts, mostly I'm just blowing smoke.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Newt, the leaking vessel, has only conservatism to fall back on. He unfortunately is as much a part of the elite DC culture as Skeletaur Pelosi is. I am afraid no matter which republican wins the nomination, they will oversee continual decline, if elected.

That said, ABO. Very sad indeed. Don't know if this ship can be turned around.

broken machine said

"Science is blasphemy!!!!!"

Science is not the final word. Science is anything, but exact. It should be questioned time and time again. Science will bite you in the ass if you put all of your faith in it.

Jess said...

So like the other experts, mostly I'm just blowing smoke.

Speaking for Diogenes, I hereby commend your candor.

garage mahal said...

He might start his own small business (and not some small business that depends upon government, like solar/unicorn-fart alternative energy, or caters to leftists like a head shop or butt-plug emporium.)

That unicorn fart renewable energy has cost billions in lost investment in the state of Wisconsin through Walker's boneheaded decision to kill wind. One of among many boneheaded decisions that has made Wisconsin the only state in the union to lose jobs for six straight months.

Tell me what is conservative about this:

A resource assessment conducted by the National Renewable Energy Lab found that Wisconsin's wind resources could provide over four times the state's current electricity needs. Wind energy supported as many as 2,000 direct and indirect jobs in the state during 2010 and generated $900,000 in annual property tax payments as well as $1.4 million in lease payments.
At least 22 facilities in Wisconsin manufacture components for the wind energy industry, and another 171 related supply chain businesses have been established in the state.
Walker's change of heart toward wind energy put a halt to future growth of this kind. It also provoked two major wind energy developers to pull out of the state, canceling more than $1 billion in investment and about 1,000 new jobs, according to the group Renew Wisconsin


What a waste. Even when Wisconsin supports wind. 77% in this poll

Jay said...

One of among many boneheaded decisions that has made Wisconsin the only state in the union to lose jobs for six straight months.

Another "fact" that there is no data for.

You're an idiot.

bagoh20 said...

"He is on a momentum roll here because he can articulate conservatism, that and he's willing to take it to Obama."

Just words. I'm the base and I simply don't trust him. I'm not a social conservative but his personal life is proof of his lack of dependability, and when you add that to his tendency to dive into acceptance of stupid liberal ideas every so often, you end up realizing that what he says is not that important. We have a long record here to judge. There is one consistent character to it through all those years and commitments. As someone who judges actions far above words, he would not be my choice.

Alex said...

garage - government funding != growth. Only private sector investment is valid.

Jay said...

Walker's change of heart toward wind energy put a halt to future growth of this kind. It also provoked two major wind energy developers to pull out of the state, canceling more than $1 billion in investment and about 1,000 new jobs, according to the group Renew Wisconsin


Really?

But if "wind" is so good and would generate all this energy and good outcomes, why does the state need to be involved? Why won't some company invest their money?

Oh, because you're totally full of shit.

That's why.

bagoh20 said...

"Wind energy supported as many as 2,000 direct and indirect jobs in the state during 2010 and generated $900,000 in annual property tax payments as well as $1.4 million in lease payments."

Is that supposed to be evidence of success? I bet buggy whip manufacturing is bigger, in addition to being less ugly and environmentally harmful.

Alex said...

My guess is garage doesn't know what the terms EBITA and ROI mean.

bagoh20 said...

"according to the group Renew Wisconsin"

Oh that's different - you're right then.

Jay said...

"Wind energy supported as many as 2,000 direct and indirect jobs in the state during 2010

Oh how I love your "facts"!

"It would in essence shut down wind energy in the state," said Denise Bode, CEO of the American Wind Energy Association. "It is one of the most onerous regulations we have seen."
Bode said that, if passed, the measure would shut down 12 wind farm projects worth about $1.8 billion. Those projects, which are in various stages of planning, could produce about 950 full-time jobs for one year she said.


Don't worry garbage what you're saying is all true because you believe it.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"What a waste. Even when Wisconsin supports wind."

A friend, an engineer for a wind turbine manufacturer, has admitted to me that the technology is sorely lacking in efficiency and if allowed to grow beyond the current-carrying capability of our current electrical grid, could be more costly, still.

Because of these problems, a lack of private investment in these technologies has made them rely on heavy subsidy in order to move them forward.

So garage, go ahead and prop this up, along with your high speed trains. Its what clueless liberals do best.

Jay said...

One of among many boneheaded decisions that has made Wisconsin the only state in the union to lose jobs for six straight months.

You support Obama's decision to deny the Keystone XL Pipeline permit.

You have no credibility on "jobs"

Revenant said...

Science is not the final word. Science is anything, but exact. It should be questioned time and time again. Science will bite you in the ass if you put all of your faith in it

Although if you have to pick something to put all your faith in, science would be the best bet. It has built-in mechanisms for learning from its mistakes, after all.

Anyway, the global warming debate isn't really about science at all. Even if the *scientific* consensus surrounding the existence and causes of global warming was as settled as politicians and activists would like us to believe that wouldn't mean much. The real debate is over "how much should we spend on ", and that's an entirely political debate. No honest scientist will tell you that, for example, the Kyoto treaty will save so much as a single human life.

garage mahal said...

Jay
I'm only responding to you once per thread, if at all. I suggest you do the same. The back and forth is tiring. Nobody wants to hear it. The blog admins said they don't want it. I honestly don't give a fuck what you think anyway, so just give it one good go per thread, and if you're putting words in my mouth from something I said, at least link to it.

Revenant said...

One of among many boneheaded decisions that has made Wisconsin the only state in the union to lose jobs for six straight months.

Between July 2011 and December 2011, employment in Wisconsin grew by 19,400 jobs. The unemployment rate fell from 7.8% to 7.1%. Government employment shrank, but overall employment rose slightly.

Employment in Wisconsin bottomed out in December of '09 and has been trending upwards ever since, although there was a decline over several months in the middle of last year.

Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics

ken in sc said...

Dick Cheney donated the majority of his income to charity. look how much credit he got for that.

ken in sc said...

Hey, C-4, trees do put off more ground level ozone than cars. The Smokey Mountains were smokey and the Blue Ridge was blue because of the ozone coniferous trees give off long before cars ever came about. Ain’t science wonderful?

Jay said...

One of among many boneheaded decisions that has made Wisconsin the only state in the union to lose jobs for six straight months.

And yet you criticize Walker's job retention efforts.

And yet you criticize Walker's budget reforms which saved teacher's jobs.

You have no credibility on jobs garage.

damikesc said...

Like mittens, Althouse is also smitten w/Limbo as she has a soft spot for drug addicted, hypocritical, narcissistic bigots ie she has empathy. :)

Ironically, that also fits Obama. Quite well.

shiloh said...

damikesc

So Althouse is smitten w/Obama.

Praise the lord!

Cedarford said...

Saint Croix - "A million Americans of ordinary intelligence are far smarter in the aggregate than a handful of Ivy League geniuses in a room. It's the brilliance of capitalism. I'm not sure Mitt Romney actually gets that.."
==============
No, the mob is not automatically correct about anything.
In most of history, they tend to be morons working against their own self-interest.
Whole books have been written on the mass delusions of "the market" and the mobs.
Nor are American mob attendees of average intelligence, in the aggregate - based on the historical record - one iota smarter that German, French, Soviet, Japanese "millions".

Ralph L said...

he did everything he could to conciliate while holding it together
By calling up 50,000 soldiers, causing (most of) Virginia and NC to secede?

Michael McNeil said...

The globe is warming. Has been for 10,000 years now.

No it hasn't. From about 8000 years ago to 4000 years ago is the period known as Altithermal, or Holocene Climate Optimum, when temperatures were at their warmest since the end of the ice age. For the last several thousand years conditions have generally been cooler, though nowhere near as cold as during the ice age.

Tom DeGisi said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tom DeGisi said...

garage mahal,

On a large scale, wind energy to provide electricity does not work from an engineering standpoint. Engineering is ... applied science. Do you think science is blasphemy too? ;)

Yours,
Tom