January 25, 2012

"Gov. Scott Walker holds single-digit leads over several potential Democratic opponents in hypothetical recall matchups..."

"In the survey of 701 registered voters, Walker leads his 2010 opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, 50% to 44%. He leads former Dane County executive Kathleen Falk 49% to 42%.  He also leads two other Democrats, former congressman Dave Obey and state lawmaker Tim Cullen."
In the same statewide poll, President Obama leads Republican Mitt Romney in a hypothetical matchup 48% to 40%.
Maybe Wisconsinites just like incumbents. Seriously, what's going on there? We've got Obama 8 points ahead of the supposedly kind of moderate Romney, yet the supposedly staunchly conservative Walker is beating all the potential Democratic opponents?

Looking through to the full results — PDF — it's interesting that on the right direction/wrong track question,  70% of the respondents think the country is on the wrong track (24% say "right direction"), but when the same question is asked about Wisconsin, 50% say "right direction," and 46% say "wrong track."

Check out question 30: "In general, which of the following statements do you agree with more? I'd rather pay higher taxes and have a state government that provides more services, or I'd rather pay lower taxes and have a state government that provides fewer services?" 50% prefer the lower taxes approach, compared to 41% who want more services. 

And question 38: "Thinking about all the changes in state government over the past year, do you think Wisconsin is better off in the long run because of these changes or worse off in the long run?" 54% say "better off," over 40% that say "worse off." 

Interesting results. I think it's predictable that Scott Walker will survive the recall election.

153 comments:

Original Mike said...

"Seriously, what's going on there?"

Perhaps a lot of people are still afraid that if they vote against Obama it means they are racist.

Sorun said...

People are only afraid to say they'd vote against Obama.

shiloh said...

Perhaps it's early and the "actual" campaigning has yet to begin.

And yes incumbency is huge, even for Walker, who has been campaigning ie talkin' to his buddies the koch boys non-stop, much like Obama recently.

ok, call me crazy! :-P

Obama was (30) pts. behind Hillary nationally and one month later beat Hillary in Iowa bt 8 pts.

Coakley was (30) pts. ahead of Brown and one month later lost mainly 'cause she a no-show ie didn't campaign.

As always, stay tuned as voters can be quite fickle! :D

Jay said...

Thinking about all the changes in state government over the past year, do you think Wisconsin is better off in the long run because of these changes or worse off in the long run?" 54% say "better off," over 40% that say "worse off."


Probably because Walker's reforms are working.

Henry said...

Maybe people with name recognition do better than those without. Shiloh's anecdotes speak to that.

It would be interesting to compare this poll with one taken at the same time with the same methodology that compared Scott Brown to "Generic Democrat" and Barack Obama to "Generic Republican."

shiloh said...

Regardless $$$ will be pouring into WI. :)

Ann Althouse said...

"Perhaps it's early and the "actual" campaigning has yet to begin."

Do you really think the named Democrats are going to build support as they campaign and Walker campaigns?

I don't. They aren't appealing and charismatic people, and what are they going to say?

I think the most interesting question is how the recall distraction will affect the fall elections.

Ann Althouse said...

"Regardless $$$ will be pouring into WI. :)"

Yes, unlimited fundraising that will be spent in a season when there are other races going on where the candidates do have limits.

The people who pushed for the recall set up a screwed up season of TV commercials.

edutcher said...

Keep in mind, GodZero's been pretty much out of the news the last week or so and his numbers always go up then.

Once people have to look at him and hear him on a daily basis, the numbers nosedive.

(even so, he's at -16 in Rasmussen's approval index and that's what he was polling a year ago when he was on the tube every day)

And what Jay said. People are starting to see the money saved.

RonF said...

"In general, which of the following statements do you agree with more? I'd rather pay higher taxes and have a state government that provides more services, or I'd rather pay lower taxes and have a state government that provides fewer services?" 50% prefer the lower taxes approach, compared to 41% who want more services.

In Illinois you'd get the reverse answer, as we have a large number of people dependent on government funding either through welfare payments or other assistance or because they're on a government payroll.

John Stodder said...

I think the electorate thinks the recall is unfair, unwarranted and a partisan stunt.

When Gov. Gray Davis was recalled in 2003, it was because the state's finances were a wreck. It seemed as if the only way to salvage the situation was to change leaders. Desperation was in the air.

Not so in Wisconsin. The only desperate people in Wisconsin's political universe are the public employee unions and the Democratic party. Which did SO much to boost its reputation by leaving the state to block a vote.

It looks like a refight of the previous election, and the voters hate that. They want campaigns every four years, not every time the losers are unhappy.

TosaGuy said...

So the polling suggests that there are a whole bunch more Walker supporters than there are voting-age, living Wisconsin residents who signed their real name to a petition once.


The petitions for the state senators are up. I took a look through Van Wangaard's of Racine and in 5 minutes found a man and a woman with the exact same handwriting, as well as a two signatures from a couple in Wisconsin Rapids (about 200 miles away). Anecdotal? Most certainly! Means that there are not enough valid signatures -- certainly not. But those four "signatures" will equate to only one vote against Wangaard. Such is the hard math faced by the recallers.

PackerBronco said...

Walker's lead will only grow.

The Dems said that disaster would occur when Walker's reforms were installed.

Well it hasn't happened.

Not everything in the Wisconsin economy is perfect. I would like to see a lower unemployment rate, but compared to the rest of the country it is't bad.

The larger question is whether Walker should be kicked out after a year in office. Should the state that this extraordinary action?

Unless you're a died-in-wool Walker hater the answer is obviously "no".

Original Mike said...

"The people who pushed for the recall set up a screwed up season of TV commercials."

Thank God for DVRs.

Original Mike said...

"The petitions for the state senators are up."

What's the website?

damikesc said...

Perhaps it's early and the "actual" campaigning has yet to begin.

shiloh, if there is already a comfortable lead for Walker at this point, good luck in making a lot of inroads. The haters are already as fervent as they can be and are still losing.

Michael Haz said...

These numbers are why Russ Feingold isn't gooing to run in opposition to Scott Walker.

Please, please, please, let Kathleen Falk's dream of running against Walker come true.

I ♥ Willard said...

I object to Willard being categorized as moderate.

One of Willard's great strengths is that he cannot be pigeonholed. He isn't strictly conservative, moderate or liberal; Willard is in fact all of the above.

Policy issues are very complex and require complex solutions. Willard understands this because he's an outstanding, experienced problem solver and manager. That's why, for example, he can be pro-life and pro-choice at the same time.

Willard has very strong convictions. One of his most firmly held convictions is that his convictions are flexible and should change as necessary to fit the circumstances. That's why in reality Willard is both the most conservative and the most moderate GOP presidential candidate.

Carol_Herman said...

Of course, there's no math involved in collecting these statistics. What should probably be known, though, is that it is "weighted" towards democraps.

And, still Walker leads.

Original Mike said...

"Please, please, please, let Kathleen Falk's dream of running against Walker come true."

At the moment, she's got my vote in the primary.

TosaGuy said...

Recall petitions on the internet

http://gab.wi.gov/

Original Mike said...

Thanks.

mccullough said...

Perhaps Wisconsites (Wisconsonians?) prefer conservative state government and liberal federal government. If I had to choose, I'd take conservative federal government and liberal state government.

I ♥ Willard said...

When Gov. Gray Davis was recalled in 2003, it was because the state's finances were a wreck.

Thank goodness California elected Governor Arnold! The voters obviously knew what they were doing because Governor Arnold left California on a sound financial footing.

EDH said...

Notably, Question 30 left out the option of more services for the same or lower taxes.

Isn't that the essence of Walker's success?

shiloh said...

"shiloh, if there is already a comfortable lead for Walker at this point"

Yes, as mentioned, he's the incumbent and will have a $$$ advantage and how often has a U.S. governor been recalled out of office?

IIRC, as I don't pay much attention to WI, didn't Walker give more tax breaks to large corporations at the expense of union/state workers. Soooo, if WI unemployment continues to tank ~ stay tuned!

carry on

TosaGuy said...

I think those behind this whole recall stunt know the hard fact that they probably have 800,000 real votes out of all the signatures collected. I think it will be difficult to grow appreciably that number. Walker simply needs to get those to the polls who voted for him in 2010.

He will have a fight, but I think Walker wants this fight because the payoff will be huge.

John Stodder said...

Thank goodness California elected Governor Arnold!

Irrelevant to my point but thanks for playing.

Original Mike said...

"Perhaps Wisconsites (Wisconsonians?)"

Cheese Heads.

Original Mike said...

"He will have a fight, but I think Walker wants this fight because the payoff will be huge."

I don't know. The economy may tank when the 800,000 commit suicide.

Or, maybe not.

garage mahal said...

I'm just glad we have John Stodder, on loan to us from Southern California, to explain this all to us. Our "go to guy" in all things Wisconsin.

Christopher in MA said...

Women, minorities and Garage Mahal hardest hit.

Joe Schmoe said...

Thank goodness California elected Governor Arnold!

Irrelevant to my point but thanks for playing.


John Stodder, I Heart Willard is just trying his or her hand at satire/parody writing, and failing badly.

John Stodder said...

Doesn't matter where I am Garage. The point is, you don't have the conditions in place for a successful recall. I've been through one, you haven't. Gray Davis was despised on a bipartisan basis. Walker apparently still has the Reeps, and a good share of the independents, and probably will end up getting lots of Dem votes, though those voters won't tell you that.

In fact, all he had was your base -- the state employees. And even some of them were mad at him because he "broke a promise" to bribe them shamelessly because the state ran out of money.

That "right track" poll result referenced above is another deadly stat for your side.

What lovers of government don't understand, well one thing they don't, is that most people hate politics. The last thing they want is an unscheduled election, a refight of a battle that was settled. They don't want to see a bunch of political ads depicting Walker as a shitbag. They want to be left alone. You are disturbing their peace because you don't like it that you lost, and can't wait four years for your next shot. I'm sorry, I'd like to make kissy-face with you, I have no desire to disagree with you, but my analysis is going to be your post-mortem.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
I'm just glad we have John Stodder, on loan to us from Southern California, to explain this all to us. Our "go to guy" in all things Wisconsin.


Nice delfection.

Pogo said...

After the recall fails, maybe American commandos will race into Wisconsin and rescue all the government workers.

garage mahal said...

I'm sorry, I'd like to make kissy-face with you, I have no desire to disagree with you, but my analysis is going to be your post-mortem.

Please. You don't know jack shit about Wisconsin politics, just as I don't know anything about SoCal politics. You're a Pat Caddell/Doug Schoen type fake Democrat, always wanting to pass on bad conventional wisdom advice to them. Whatever happens in the recalls won't have anything to do with your trolling/mobying.

cubanbob said...

shiloh said...
"shiloh, if there is already a comfortable lead for Walker at this point"

Yes, as mentioned, he's the incumbent and will have a $$$ advantage and how often has a U.S. governor been recalled out of office?

IIRC, as I don't pay much attention to WI, didn't Walker give more tax breaks to large corporations at the expense of union/state workers. Soooo, if WI unemployment continues to tank ~ stay tuned!

carry on

1/25/12 10:57 AM

Hmmm give tax breaks to people who employee people or to people who live off other people's taxes?
Brilliant analysis Shiloh. Simply brilliant.

cubanbob said...

Check out question 30: "In general, which of the following statements do you agree with more? I'd rather pay higher taxes and have a state government that provides more services, or I'd rather pay lower taxes and have a state government that provides fewer services?" 50% prefer the lower taxes approach, compared to 41% who want more services.

Where is the third option? The one that asks I rather pay taxes for services that directly benefit me the taxpayer and not pay taxes to subsidize those living off government?

traditionalguy said...

The Limbaugh Doctrine at work: A strong conservative message by a good candidate that is not a "Crazy Meanie"" on social issues beats a moderate compromiser who has no reason to live except to promote himself.

tim in vermont said...

Registered voters skew Democrat, not the same as likely voters.

This sample prefers Obama by an outsized percentage, also indicating that the sample skews Democrat.

Maybe it is time to head over to intrade. Walker will win, uless R's don't work, because the D's will voting the cemetaries, nursing homes, homeless alcoholics and having the college kids vote twice and more, the way they did when they stole Wisconsin from Bush in 2000.

But still, the R's should prevail.

Jay said...

shiloh said...

IIRC, as I don't pay much attention to WI, didn't Walker give more tax breaks to large corporations at the expense of union/state workers. Soooo, if WI unemployment continues to tank ~ stay tuned


Um, no. But it is rather entertaining that you think the only unemployment figures that matter are those regarding state workers.

tim in vermont said...

Cubanbob,
You didn't see the true option either. I would rather other people pay high taxes, and I pay none, and have all the services I could imagine.

Jay said...

You don't know jack shit about Wisconsin politics,

You tell 'em garagie!

Ask him to see his W-2 you politics knower you!!

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said...
I'm just glad we have John Stodder, on loan to us from Southern California, to explain this all to us. Our "go to guy" in all things Wisconsin.

Stodder speaks the truth, garage. Now answer your email.

garage mahal said...

What email?

Bender said...

What's going on?

If it is a choice between a lib-Dem and a mod/lib-Republican, voters will go for the full deal each time.

Given a choice between Obama and Obama-lite Romney, they will choose the complete version.

John Stodder said...

Wow, Garage -- all tantrum and name-calling. No substance. The news is bugging the shit out of you, isn't it?

I'm too old to be accused of "mobying" or "trolling." Besides, how could I possibly be accused of trolling on a site where I agree with the blogger most of the time?

tim in vermont said...

"Given a choice between Obama and Obama-lite Romney, they will choose the complete version."

Not you of course, but other 'stupid' people, I am assuming.

I would vote for anybody but Hugo Chavez rather than Obama.

John Stodder said...

Boy, talk about groupthink. Romney is "Obama-lite?" Romney is a strong conservative. He might not be Tea Party-esque in style, but he is completely in tune with conservatives on all the issues.

I'm wondering if the Tea Party is starting to evolve into the kind of noxious purists that wrecked the Democratic Party in the 70s. As I watch the regrettable rise of Newt Gingrich, I fear that these purists are going to give us what the left purists gave us in 1972 - four more years of a corrupt regime.

shiloh said...

"Brilliant analysis Shiloh. Simply brilliant."

Thanx, many try, few succeed! :D

I ♥ Willard said...

Irrelevant to my point but thanks for playing.

But very relevant to my point.

garage mahal said...

Wow, Garage -- all tantrum and name-calling. No substance. The news is bugging the shit out of you, isn't it?

Nobody in the state knows how it will end up. I talk to people in the state a lot, and I have no real feel for how it will end up. Anyone that does claim to know is yanking someone's chain. You, in this case.

John Stodder said...

Well I agree Arnold was a terrible governor. But the focus is on how to recall a governor. Conditions were riper to recall Gray Davis -- including the presence of Arnold on the ballot, at the time seen as having more capacity to lead than he in the end demonstrated.

If the Dems can't offer a similarly appealing candidate as an alternative to Walker, that's another hurdle for them in what looks like an impossible task, on top of the perceived nuisance and unfairness of recalling a governor after just a year, the lack of a compelling issue that affects the broad interests of all voters, and the perception that it's all a special-interest turf war. Those special interests are about to waste a ton of money.

Original Mike said...

Wow. Garage is sandbagging already. That's telling.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Nobody in the state knows how it will end up. I talk to people in the state a lot, and I have no real feel for how it will end up.


But, but, but, what about the one million signatures!!

One.Million.Signatures!!!!

I ♥ Willard said...

Romney ... is completely in tune with conservatives on all the issues.

I agree. RomneyCare is just one example of how in tune Willard is with conservatives. Willard is definitely singing their tune!

AJ Lynch said...

I think your analysis is correct.

Meade said...

John Stodder said...
"As I watch the regrettable rise of Newt Gingrich, I fear that these purists are going to give us what the left purists gave us in 1972 - four more years of a corrupt regime."

By "corrupt regime" you meant the 92nd, 93rd, 94th, and 95th Congress, right?

cubanbob said...

John Stodder said...

The TEA Party is going to give you a Gingrich Presidency with a TEA Party Congress to keep Newt on time and on target. On the hand with a TEA Party congress Mitt won't go wobbly either. Either way its a win-win over the current congress and president.

purplepenquin said...

Nobody in the state knows how it will end up. I talk to people in the state a lot, and I have no real feel for how it will end up

Exactly.

Even tho the "professionals" didn't think it would be possible to launch the re-call drive during the winter months, I always felt confident that there would be enough signatures.

However, it is pretty obvious that this is gonna be a tough hard race...those who wish to see him out of office are motivated and dedicated, but Walker has already raised an unprecedented amount of money and he starting airing reelection commercials right after one of his supporters launched the recall-drive early. That doesn't sound like someone who is confident of victory, does it?



Rational people, on all sides of this issue, know that the race will be too close to call...anyone who says otherwise is either very naive or simply a partisan hack.


That said, no matter what way the election unfolds, I'm afraid that the violence will still continue (latest update: Police reports state that a Recall HQ in Columbus has been repeatedly vandalized) This whole We refuse to negotiate or even listen to you, so you WILL do what you're told! attitude that the WI-GOP has brought forth in the last year has deeply poisoned our state, and it will take a long time to recover...

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

So, after all the tantrums, the organizing, the chanting, the vuvuzella blowing and the favorable media coverage, Walker maintains about the same lead over Barrett that he had in the general election.

And to think, this circus will only cost us about another $20 million before it's over.

On the bright side, winning the recall will make Walker virtually unbeatable should he decide to run for reelection.

Jay said...

I'm afraid that the violence will still continue (latest update: Police reports state that a Recall HQ in Columbus has been repeatedly vandalized) This whole We refuse to negotiate or even listen to you, so you WILL do what you're told! attitude that the WI-GOP has

So let me get this straight.

The "WI-GOP" is responsible for a recall HQ being vandalized?

When are you going to make a post about the death threats against Republicans in WI?

Original Mike said...

A lot of concern out there on Planet Recall.

Bender said...

On the hand with a TEA Party congress Mitt won't go wobbly either

A nominee Romney will tell the Tea Party to shut up and fall in line. A President Romney will tell the Tea Party to shut up and fall in line, just as Romney-esque Boehner has told them to do.

chickenlittle said...

@garage: Check your DM's then. Don't make me call you!

AJ Lynch said...

I am trying to guess what Romney did to Bender cause Bender sure hates Romney. :)

damikesc said...

Yes, as mentioned, he's the incumbent and will have a $$$ advantage and how often has a U.S. governor been recalled out of office?

His opponents haven't had their negatives put into the limelight. ALL of Walker's negatives are there --- and he is still winning.

Again, lots of luck.

IIRC, as I don't pay much attention to WI, didn't Walker give more tax breaks to large corporations at the expense of union/state workers. Soooo, if WI unemployment continues to tank ~ stay tuned!

If he wins this election, he should do EVERYTHING specifically at the expense of union/state workers.

Nobody in the state knows how it will end up. I talk to people in the state a lot, and I have no real feel for how it will end up.

That you --- a true believer --- doesn't know how it will end is not positive.

Well, not for you, anyway.

damikesc said...

That said, no matter what way the election unfolds, I'm afraid that the violence will still continue (latest update: Police reports state that a Recall HQ in Columbus has been repeatedly vandalized) This whole We refuse to negotiate or even listen to you, so you WILL do what you're told! attitude that the WI-GOP has brought forth in the last year has deeply poisoned our state, and it will take a long time to recover...

So, running away to IL because you didn't win the argument didn't poison the state?

The death threats against Republicans?

The recalls out of spite?

shiloh said...

Althouse initially was totally skeptical, in her pandering sarcastic manner to her conservative flock, that there would ever be a recall.

'nuf said!

cubanbob said...

Bender said...
On the hand with a TEA Party congress Mitt won't go wobbly either

A nominee Romney will tell the Tea Party to shut up and fall in line. A President Romney will tell the Tea Party to shut up and fall in line, just as Romney-esque Boehner has told them to do.

1/25/12 12:41 PM

The TEA Party will push enough votes for Congress that and that Congress will make Mitt do their bidding. Also Romney isn't stupid. He knows without a fired up base he will have gained nothing other than being another McCain.

BarryD said...

What's going on?

Walker is not so unpopular as his enemies wish.

And separately...

Romney is an ass-clown, whereas Obama is the incumbent. It's Obama's job to lose, and he's done a damn good job trying. But to beat the incumbent, a challenger at least has to seem like he'd be an improvement.

See John Kerry.

garage mahal said...

That you --- a true believer --- doesn't know how it will end is not positive.

All head to heads were within the margin of error of the poll +/- 7%, except for Cullen. The poll oversampled Milwaukee suburbs (30%) landlines (71%) and 60% of the poll sampled were over the age of 45.

James said...

>>IIRC, as I don't pay much attention to WI, didn't Walker give more tax breaks to large corporations at the expense of union/state workers. Soooo, if WI unemployment continues to tank ~ stay tuned!
<<

Just a minute...you aren't a Wisconsin resident? Let's see if Garage Mahal calls you out.

shiloh said...

James, as an Ohioan, I thoroughly enjoyed Kasich's union busting Issue 2 going down in total flames! :)

So WI conservatives, especially your fearless leader Althouse, don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Again, stay tuned ...

James said...

>>...because the D's will voting the cemetaries, nursing homes, homeless alcoholics and having the college kids vote twice and more, the way they did when they stole Wisconsin from Bush in 2000.<<


Not likely; Voter ID is the law now.

garage mahal said...

Side note: I always find it amusing what Althouse doesn't blog about. Like this for instance.

The corruption investigation into Gov. Scott Walker's time as Milwaukee County executive is focusing on the bid competition to house the county's Department on Aging in private office space, the Journal Sentinel has learned.

As shiloh would say, stay tuned!

TosaGuy said...

"James, as an Ohioan, I thoroughly enjoyed Kasich's union busting Issue 2 going down in total flames! :)"

Of course there are significant differences between the Ohio and Wisconsin issues.

1) WI reforms have been implemented and lived under for a year, whereas Ohio they were unknown.
2) Ohio included emergency services and WI did not -- no scaring people into thinking their house will burn down.
3) It's an election with a person vs. a person, not an up or down on a particular law.
4) Walker will have money to defend himself, Kasich didn't have money or an effectively campaign vehicle to defend the idea.

TosaGuy said...

With regard to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel article ..... three people in SE WI have read it since everyone else used their 15 free articles (now a paid content site) to read about the Packers.

Peter said...

The referenced poll says that 74% favor "Requiring public employees to contribute to their own pensions and pay more for health insurance" but only 48% favor "Limiting public employees' ability to collectively bargain over benefits and non-wage issues."

From which one must conclude that a significant percentage of the electorate believes that it would have been possible to get the first without the second??

Calypso Facto said...

The poll oversampled Milwaukee suburbs (30%) landlines (71%) and 60% of the poll sampled were over the age of 45.

Which, I take to mean, you think older, conservative voters were over sampled? Like will happen at the recall election polling places this summer when all the snow birds are back in state and the college kids are off?

shiloh said...

TosaGuy's rationalizations are duly noted, my not sayin' both elections were/are the same in any way notwithstanding.

ie Ohio was an issue and WI may bounce a governor which doesn't happen to often, so Walker must be soooo proud for the opportunity lol.

coolkevs said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
coolkevs said...

"Soooo, if WI unemployment continues to tank ~ stay tuned!"
Wisconsin is 20th lowest or 30th highest in unemployment. I don't know where you're getting the tanking opinion from, but it doesn't jibe with the facts, no matter how the media spins it. We are right in the middle. And as goes the rest of the US unemployment, Wisconsin will go right along with it. At least we're not #8 highest Illinois...

garage mahal said...

From which one must conclude that a significant percentage of the electorate believes that it would have been possible to get the first without the second??

Interesting Tommy Thompson is hedging on that question:

"I was not there when he was making his decision based on the facts and evidence that he had. I'm not going to come now and Monday (morning) quarterback and say I would have done it different," Thompson said, according to the Journal Sentinel. "Probably would have, but I don't know."

Thompson also said he does not support right-to-work legislation, another proposal popular with fiscal conservatives.
Link

traditionalguy said...

Nearly all elections are decided by single digit leads...why a politician would have to run against Cardboard Man Romney to win by double digits.

Maybe when Mitch Daniels replaces Romney, we can see a close vote again.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

I ♥ Willard said...

Thank goodness California elected Governor Arnold! The voters obviously knew what they were doing because Governor Arnold left California on a sound financial footing.


Arnold was on track to reverse decades of mindless Democrat spending with a series of ballot initiatives. A story about him feeling up some babe on a movie set went around, making him personally unpopular, and the initiatives failed. After that, Arnold essentially became a Democrat, and that accounts for the horrible state of the California economy. I sorely regret voting for him, but how was I to know he would go liberal on me?

Revenant said...

A nominee Romney will tell the Tea Party to shut up and fall in line. A President Romney will tell the Tea Party to shut up and fall in line, just as Romney-esque Boehner has told them to do.

"Shut up and do as I say" sounds a lot more like Gingrich than Romney.

Anyway, outside of a war situation (a real war that threatens us, not the current war) neither Congress nor the American people have tolerance for the "shut up and fall in line" schtick. He's President, not King. Also... "fall in line" with WHAT? What does Romney believe in strongly enough to pick a fight with his own party?

John Stodder said...

I agree. RomneyCare is just one example of how in tune Willard is with conservatives. Willard is definitely singing their tune!

As Newt's career illustrates, the elements of Romneycare were only ruled out of bounds for conservatives recently.

It was a state plan. Most authentic conservatives have no problem with states trying out experiments like Romneycare.

The bottom line is Romney has said he will repeal Obamacare, defund it, and destroy it through executive orders. What more do you need?

I defend Romney because he clearly is the only existant GOP candidate that can win. He's plenty conservative, but he's also a successful person who can govern. Gingrich is a buffoon who happens to say interesting things from time to time, then self-destructs. If he gets the nomination, you won't live long enough to stop regretting it.

Original Mike said...

"It was a state plan. Most authentic conservatives have no problem with states trying out experiments like Romneycare."

I'm really tired of Romney using this argument. It's a straw man, and he knows it. "No one" disputes MA's right to implement this plan, and "everybody" agrees that state experimenes are helpful, but the fact remains IT'S AN AWFUL PLAN, for the exact same reasons that ObamaCare is awful. I may well support Romney if the Wisconsin primary still matters by the time they get here, but Romney needs to say "I fucked up". He also needs to fire the advisers who cooked up this "states rights" dodge.

PackerBronco said...

A lot of concern out there on Planet Recall.

Of course there is because up until now the Walker haters have mainly been talking to each other. "You hate Walker?" "Yeah, I hate Walker". "Hate, hate, hate Walker". "Anyone here not hate Walker?" "No we ALL hate Walker!!" "Hate!! Hate!! Hate"

But the Walker haters are simply not a big enough group to defeat Walker. So the Dems are going to have to convince people who DON'T hate Walker that things are SO BAD that he has to get kicked out of office after 1 year.

And quite frankly, they don't have a good argument for that. And as the election date gets closer and that armageddon that the Dems were predicting was going to visit our state never materializes, Walker's position will only get stronger.

garage mahal said...

Romney has no authority to repeal ObamaCare by an executive order.

But says he will. On DAY ONE!

Original Mike said...

"Romney has no authority to ..."

Hasn't seemed to slow down President Recess.

Chuck66 said...

My take....there are a lot of people in Wisconsin who only vote Democrat. They'll vote for Obama in 2012, and they will vote for the Democrat Governor candidate in 2014.

But they don't want a do over election. They don't want their spring and summer ruined by non-stop angry political ads on TV and radio.

So they will vote no on recalling the governor even if they don't really care for him.

Also, people don't like bullies.

Chuck66 said...

"Of course there is because up until now the Walker haters have mainly been talking to each other."

That is what happened in 2004. How the heck did Bush win when everyone hated him?
-Anti-Bush movies
-Anti Bush books
-Anti Bush concert tours
-Anti Bush web sites (big ones)
-Anti Bush rallies
-Anti Bush radio

Turns out, it was all the same people attending/reading/using these things. So it wasn't 50.1% of the population.

Nathan Alexander said...

@Original Mike,

It's not like Romney implemented Romneycare in Texas.

He did it in Massachussetts.

He was representing his constituents.

If you think a majority of constituents would be better served by repealing Obamacare, and a Tea Party/Conservative/GOP controlled Congress does so, do you think Romney would veto it just because he felt obliged to come up with the best possible universal health care system* in the bluest of blue states for blue voters?!??

*Please note: Romney also helped prove that "best possible universal health care system" is clearly worse than "no universal health care system"

damikesc said...

Romney has no authority to repeal ObamaCare by an executive order.

Obama believes the admin DOES have the power to issue waivers. Romney will just issue waivers indefinitely. He could also refuse to appoint anybody to oversee the bureaucracy.

Original Mike said...

"If you think a majority of constituents would be better served by repealing Obamacare, and a Tea Party/Conservative/GOP controlled Congress does so, do you think Romney would veto it..."

No, I don't. I take him at his word. But the fact remains it is a plan that can do nothing but fail because the incentives are counterproductive. He could say that (in fact he is better positioned to do this than anybody else, having been it's architect). But he won't. I'm worried he doesn't understand what's wrong with it. And that troubles me mightly.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Side note: I always find it amusing what Althouse doesn't blog about. Like this for instance.

The corruption investigation into Gov. Scott Walker's time as Milwaukee County executive is focusing on the bid competition to house the county's Department on Aging in private office space, the Journal Sentinel has learned.

As shiloh would say, stay tuned!"

Having had the "John Doe" investigation blow up in his face...after months of OT comments bringing it up, garage mahal finds a new straw to grasp.

Lawsuit on the Walker bill: Fail
Supreme Court race: Fail
Recount of same: Fail
Fall Recall attempt to take over Senate: Fail
John Doe: Fail

And the above too will fail.

roesch/voltaire said...

Any poll that shows Walker with only a %7 lead over Kathy Falk is skewed (Falk like Gingrich will never get to represent the ticket) and suggests this race is wide open. I would like to see Tom Barrett re-enter the race now that the actual studies on the mess Walker left Milwaukee in can be discussed. Add the high job loss numbers to the investigation into high level Walker aids, and things get interesting.

Curious George said...

purplepenquin said...
That said, no matter what way the election unfolds, I'm afraid that the violence will still continue (latest update: Police reports state that a Recall HQ in Columbus has been repeatedly vandalized) This whole We refuse to negotiate or even listen to you, so you WILL do what you're told! attitude that the WI-GOP has brought forth in the last year has deeply poisoned our state, and it will take a long time to recover..."

Hey penguin, why weren't you here wetting your pants last week when recallers were arrested assaulting a cop?

You are the fucking poster child of liberal hypocrisy. From lunch breaks being "life and death" to this shit. Pathetic.

AJ Lynch said...

Garage - you have been predicting Walker's arrest for a while now. Here is what you said on 9/15/11 for God's sake:

"Wonder when were going to see the "Scott Walker is in trouble" tag. Soon I bet! He is lawyered up, as they say. Absolute worse timing for him it would seem."

Will you ever admit you were wrong about him?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

I would like to see Tom Barrett re-enter the race now that the actual studies on the mess Walker left Milwaukee in can be discussed.

LOL. Like how Barrett used Walker's tools to balance the city of Milwaukee budget?

Good luck with that.

garage mahal said...

Will you ever admit you were wrong about him?

Walker has spent over 100k on lawyers relating to the John Doe. Why, do you suppose? His own spokesman was granted immunity from prosecution for gods sake. How many governors can say that?

Why Curious George sticks up for child molesters and people who raid Veterans Charities is anyone's guess though.

Rusty said...

Nobody in the state knows how it will end up. I talk to people in the state a lot, and I have no real feel for how it will end up. Anyone that does claim to know is yanking someone's chain. You, in this case.




Whoa! This is a change.
What's the matter? They start finding all those phony signatures already?

Rusty said...

Not likely; Voter ID is the law now.



Yeah, and nobody ever forged an ID card. Ever.

Original Mike said...

"Why Curious George sticks up for child molesters and people who raid Veterans Charities is anyone's guess though."

What a fuckstick.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Interesting Tommy Thompson is hedging on that question:"

Only if "interesting" means "predictable."

purplepenquin said...

Hey penguin, why weren't you here wetting your pants last week when recallers were arrested assaulting a cop?

Sorry you missed me, but if you had bothered to check on my website you'd have seen I was on vacation last week.

(And tell me again how you don't obsess over me...'cause getting uptight about someone not being around a week ago sure seems like an obsession.)


You are the fucking poster child of liberal hypocrisy. From lunch breaks being "life and death" to this shit. Pathetic.

*sigh*

Are you really disputing that fatigue is an issue for some trades/professions? Or have you convinced yourself that I really said "Lunch breaks are life and death!" without any other context?


So far it appears that you're trolling for the sake of trolling.

'cause your actions...ranging from childish name-calling to gleefully posting videos showing workers dying on the job to the way you attack me for stances that are the complete opposite of what I just stated they were...strongly indicate that you aren't interested in having a good-faith discussion about any of the issues.

Lem said...

My gut tells me Gov Walker is not going to make it.

Calypso Facto said...

Careful, Lem, garage is attempting to censor the comments of non-Wisconsinites.

garage mahal said...

I took issue with someone claiming to know how and why Wisconsinites were going to vote.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Romney has no authority to repeal ObamaCare by an executive order


How would you know?

Jay said...

purplepenquin said...

Sorry you missed me, but if you had bothered to check on my website you'd have seen I was on vacation last week.


Hysterical.

And the number of posts you made chastising the recallers for assaulting the police remains at zero.

Alex said...

bad day for garage. But then again, 100% of his life is predicated on politics.

Nathan Alexander said...

@garage,
If you don't approve of what Ms. Althouse chooses to blog and not blog, there's this nifty little social tool, you may have heard of it: it's called a "blog".
You start it, you choose the topics. If people think they are worthwhile, they come read.

Of course, you have to put up with idiots who try to hijack the threads with their own topics that are so pathetic and ridiculous they don't get coverage anywhere but FireDogLake and Daily Kos, but if you have good commenters, like Ms. Althouse does, the trolls get humiliated over and over and over.

Of course, the thread swerve liberal trolls seem to think "winning" like Charlie Sheen represents some actual victory, but that just adds to the entertainment.

So go ahead: spend your time on blogging instead of writing the nonsense you usually do here.

garage mahal said...

So go ahead: spend your time on blogging instead of writing the nonsense you usually do here.

Thanks, but I'll pass. I like it here.

damikesc said...

I would like to see Tom Barrett re-enter the race now that the actual studies on the mess Walker left Milwaukee in can be discussed.

See if he can answer how much Walker's policies saved Milwaukee and where they'd be if not for those policies.

Jay said...

Here is what you said on 9/15/11 for God's sake:

"Wonder when were going to see the "Scott Walker is in trouble" tag. Soon I bet! He is lawyered up, as they say. Absolute worse timing for him it would seem."


That is so funny.

And this idiot is whining that people don't know "Jack Shit about Wisconsin politics"

Of course he's projecting.

Chase said...

Just in case the link Jay provided doesn't work above here it is again:

Walker's Reforms saving Wisconsin Millions


How STUPID are these Wisconsin Recallers? Seriously?

THIS stupid:

1) They are not just shooting themselves in the foot, they are effectively lining up their children and grandchildren and shooting them in the ass! How selfish!

I read a pro-recaller say that "they (government workers) are not responsible for the bad economy, they deserve their "fair share". She didn't give a damn about the additional monies reform has brought to Wisconsin schools or the budget savings to Wisconsin or the less debt and better services for her children's future. Typical self-interest.

2) They want to live in the 1950's and 60's again and dream of luscious never-ending government care and union coddling. Holding on the past that's gone forever.

The world has changed. That economy is gone forever. Like Steve Jobs telling Obama to basically get over Obama's outdated economic notions - "those jobs are not coming back".

Wake up Wisconsin Recallers - the damage you do will screw your children and on and they will curse your self serving shirt-sightedness.

garage mahal said...

And this idiot is whining that people don't know "Jack Shit about Wisconsin politics"

Walker is lawyered up, moron. He's paid 100k. Any ideas why, Jaytard?

Chase said...

Walker is lawyered up, moron. He's paid 100k. Any ideas why, Jaytard?

Because anyone accused of something - whether rightly or wrongly - needs a lawyer in this over-litigious and over-regulated day and age?

Did I win?

Carnifex said...

I've got to admit. I sit here in Kentucky AWED by the energy you people put into hating each other(Wisconsinites). I got a congressman I detest, but I am not going to go wherever, and stand around chanting, or blowing vulvas (or whatever they're called), or signing a recall petition. I just wait , and use my vote, and try to convince other people not to vote for him.

Maybe it's the piss poor weather you all have, locked up all winter long gots to make anyone crazy.

I ♥ Willard said...

Arnold was on track to reverse decades of mindless Democrat spending with a series of ballot initiatives. A story about him feeling up some babe on a movie set went around, making him personally unpopular, and the initiatives failed. After that, Arnold essentially became a Democrat, and that accounts for the horrible state of the California economy.

I agree. Governor Arnold failed because he was a secret Democrat. Very good analysis!

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Carnifex said

"...but I am not going to go wherever, and stand around chanting, or blowing vulvas (or whatever they're called),..."

Thanks, I just spatter painted my monitor with veggie chili...LOL!!!

'DELORES' ('Mulva')

shiloh said...

Carnifex

That would be an interesting study ie per capita % of bloggers in each state and breakdown of that % re: anger/passive aggressive behavior.

Many Althouse conservatives would qualify in the anger/passive aggressive column.

As mentioned previously, chill as this is one of many inconsequential political blogs.

I ♥ Willard said...

The bottom line is Romney has said he will repeal Obamacare, defund it, and destroy it through executive orders.

Don't get me wrong... I'm happy that Willard plans to destroy ObamaCare.

My point is that unlike politicians like John Kerry, Willard doesn't fall back on silly excuses like "I was for it before I was against it" to explain apparently contradictory positions. In this case, Willard was ALWAYS against RomneyCare; he only supported RomneyCare as an experiment to show Americans why ObamaCare would be bad. And that's why he's always been right.

Willard will make a great President for the very reason you identify: he can beat Obama.

shiloh said...

I ♥ Willard

Are you familiar w/Poe's Law? Rhetorical. :D

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Walker is lawyered up, moron. He's paid 100k. Any ideas why, Jaytard?


Because of course he's guilty!!!!!

Innocent people never need lawyers.

Ever!

Seriously, if I were this dumb, I would stop commenting.

You'll continue.

garage mahal said...

We'll know soon Jaytard, from what it sounds like. But you seem to be an expert in the John Doe - why don't you give us your thoughts as to what is going on. Feel free to use the linked article I provided.

Chuck66 said...

In my days at corp accounting for a fortune 100 firm, I saw how much they spent on lawyers to defend the company in lawsuits. Why? Because the company was guilty? No. Well, not most of the time. It was due to slick lawyers and unethical people seeing a deep pockets entity as a cash machine. You should see the employment discrimination claims.

The unionists/Democrats are throwing everything they can at Governor Walker, hoping something will stick. That is why the governor needs a good legal team.

Chuck66 said...

blowing vulvas (or whatever they're called),..."

There is probably a joke there about liberals driving Volvos.

Original Mike said...

Listening to Walker's State of the State address. Sounds like garage's friends are in the gallery. What a bunch of jerks.

garage mahal said...

You have a stronger stomach than I do, Original. What's he lying about right now?

Original Mike said...

He's listing the one-time gimmicks Doyle used to fill the budget gap.

Original Mike said...

It's a big night on PBS tonight, garage. At 9:00, it's the David Kock hour (a.k.a. Nova).

garage mahal said...

Walker is a one time, one year gimmick.

I ♥ Willard said...

The unionists/Democrats are throwing everything they can at Governor Walker, hoping something will stick. That is why the governor needs a good legal team.

If Walker isn't guilty of anything, he has no reason to worry.

There's a basic principle involved here that some conservatives seem to have forgotten: if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear.

Liberals don't get this. That's why they oppose sensible laws like Arizona's SB 1070. And that's why most lawyers are Democrats. Thank goodness the professor isn't one of them.

Original Mike said...

It's interesting watching the Dems not clap for holding down property taxes.

garage mahal said...

Walker is a one time, one year gimmick.

Original Mike said...

I think even the Dems were embarrassed at the woman who was just dragged out screaming.

Original Mike said...

School districts saving money by competitive bidding for health insurance.

Good stuff.

Original Mike said...

Another gallery jerk.

Original Mike said...

More jerks. What do these people think they are achieving?

Original Mike said...

OK. Dinner, and then the David Kock hour. I love Wednesdays.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Walker is lawyered up, moron. He's paid 100k. Any ideas why, Jaytard?


Just remember, anytime any elected Democrat retains a lawyer, they are guilty.

But you seem to be an expert in the John Doe - why don't you give us your thoughts

It has little to do with Walker other than his former Chief of Staff asked the Milwaukee County District Attorney to investigate.

It is beyond parody you think this is some "scandal" implicating the Governor.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

Walker is a one time, one year gimmick.


Hilarious.

You do realize he's been in office more than a year, right?

You are a one note goof ball.

Steve said...

I love Willard: "If Walker isn't guilty of anything, he has no reason to worry.

There's a basic principle involved here that some conservatives seem to have forgotten: if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear. "

I used to believe this too but it seems that too often that is no longer the case. I recall the two year jail sentence for poor paperwork on imported orchids. http://boingboing.net/2009/10/05/swat-team-raids-orch.html

Walker may have bought a coffee from campaign cash but drank it in the governors office and been in violation of so campaign finance law. If I were the gov I'd be sure we had plenty of lawyers to prevent that sort of b.s.

Steve said...

May in Wiscosin:

Look the ice has melted finally - let's got outside for the next three months.

Wonder how the Brewers are doing?

An election? What? Isn't that supposed to be in November? What a waste - what a bunch of sore losers.

I gonna get a beer and setup the fire pit.

TCB-n-a-Flash said...

These numbers, just after submitting "1 million" signatures has to be hard to swallow for Walkers enemies. Still an uphill climb, but it will get closer.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Will you ever admit you were wrong about him?

Walker has spent over 100k on lawyers relating to the John Doe. Why, do you suppose? His own spokesman was granted immunity from prosecution for gods sake. How many governors can say that?

Why Curious George sticks up for child molesters and people who raid Veterans Charities is anyone's guess though."

Really dude we've been down this path before.

First, I have never "stuck up" for those involved in the crime, but if you can show otherwise, please do.

Second, Walker's administration doesn't "stick up" for these people either, as it turns out they were the ones that initiated the John Doe investigation. Too bad, so sad.

Finally there were no charges of child molestation. It was child enticement, and those were not against anyone that has ever worked for Walker, or was ever hired by Walker. As it was pointed out, that person actually was hired by a Democrat.

Why are we always left wondering if you are a liar, or an idiot, or both?

Rusty said...

So the Wisconsin election commission, or whatever system ya'll got in place to monitor voter fraud, have granted the republicans 61 day to challenge signatures instead of the usual 31.
Question; At what percentage point are all of the petitions thrown out?
I only ask because it has been my experience that democrats are zealots at cooking the books.

Mike said...

What the hell is the point of ANY Garage post here? Really. One day he's making wild projections about the Senate recall the next month he says no one knows. But the tide of history keeps flowing away from Mahal's glorious liberal oasis in the Land of Cheese & Harleys. I spend A LOT of time in WI (and live in CA) but it doesn't take long to see, like most people, Badger Folk just aren't that interested in politics.

Ann called it correctly long ago: "normal" people don't appreciate a stupid needless election forced upon them, a 2-wave season of attack ads and sophistry. These annoyed folk DON'T blame Walker for this fiasco. They blame people who populate Dane County!