October 10, 2011

Is the Recall Scott Walker movement just a big waste of money and effort or an unwitting boost for Governor Scott Walker?

The Cap Times reports that there's a good chance a group called United Wisconsin will begin collecting signatures beginning November 4th, which is the earliest date permitted under state law. They'd then have 60 days to collect enough signatures to yield the 540,000 verified signatures needed to trigger a recall election. Verification is a resource-consuming process, and so is the election that follows (assuming there are enough signature). As a taxpayer, I loathe this expenditure of money and effort by government officials.

An election would follow 6 Tuesdays after verification. As a blogger, I'll be only too happy to follow the campaigns that ensue, but generally, I would think most citizens don't appreciate having to pay attention to the campaigns and drag ourselves to the polls when we already voted Walker to a 4-year term. The normal thing to do is to stick to the choice already made and to judge the success of the governor's policies at the end of his term.

But maybe Walker will have to step up and argue as early as next winter that his policies are doing well, producing good results, and that the alternatives are dismal. If there were no recall and he just wanted to give a bunch of speeches about things like that, most people would pay little attention. But if there is a recall election, these speeches will matter. People will listen. And Walker has money to spend on this campaign. I expect great TV and radio ads blanketing the state in pro-Walker propaganda. Who will criticize him for that? He'll have been challenged and therefore required to self-promote.

Meanwhile, the Recall Walker folks will have to field a candidate. In the Wisconsin recall process, you get an election with an opposing candidate. Who is this person going to be?
Names being floated include former U.S. Rep. Dave Obey of Wausau; state Assembly Minority Leader Peter Barca of Kenosha; state Sen. Jon Erpenbach of Middleton; Wisconsin Congressman Ron Kind of La Crosse; and former Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk. Former U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold announced previously that he would not be a candidate for any office next year.
How is one of these characters supposed to mount a campaign that can compare to what Scott Walker has had so much time, money, and motivation to prepare? It seems to me that the Recall Walker effort will play right into Scott Walker's hands. But I'm sure the Recall Walker folks aren't going to listen to me. This blog post is probably just a trick to get them to knock it off, right?

Ah, well. What can I say? Please, people of Wisconsin, save us the money and the turmoil and don't sign the Recall Walker petitions. Or... I'll be here to say I told you so when your feeble, underfunded candidate is overwhelmed by brilliant Scott Walker advertising that transforms the man you love to hate into a feisty, scrappy hero.

192 comments:

Triangle Man said...

"As a taxpayer..."

You aren't a taxpayer Althouse. You are a public employee. Part of the problem. A leech. Haven't you been paying attention to your commenters?

Alex said...

Triange Man - that's correct by strict libertarian definition any public employee is a welfare recipient. Oh and I stand by the OWS defacators.

Fred4Pres said...

The recall process in Wisconsin is too low a hurdle. They do not have to win this battle. I am sure they recognize they may not win this battle. Their goal is to disrupt Scott Walker so much that he gets nothing done and they can eventually replace him.

Alex said...

Fred - ordinary Wisconsinites will see through the shenanigans. People like Althouse, the salt of the earth.

Fred4Pres said...

Recalls should be available (in theory) to the citizens, the the presumption should be you stay in office for the term you were elected for and implementing a recall should be a very high burden.

Alex said...

THIS is what democracy looks like Rethugs! Finally we're gonna kick that union-busting Rethug outta there along with his GOP Rethug cronies in Madison.

Dustin said...

It's just rich people money.

The 99%ers don't feel much pain from such expenses because they don't pay much tax and are convinced all debt and deficit can be solved by soaking the rich.

They also stupidly blame oil companies for gas being expensive, when it's costing the same price but their dollars aren't actually worth as much. Because wasteful spending often is solved via inflation. I realize this isn't directly germane to Walker's recall, but that's what I think of when I think of wasteful spending.

I don't think these activists give a flip about wasting money.

roesch-voltaire said...

On the other hand more and more people are beginning to see just who Walker represents as made plai in this 26 bills to create jobs,(not) which seem to represent only big business and not the 85% of the folks in the state. As the Wall Street protests sweep across the nation, Walker may just be swept under the rug of re-call.

Paddy O said...

Walker took some very bold steps and a recall election is a referendum on those steps. That's why I think it's a useful, if not welcomed, event.

If he loses, the battles continue to be waged (as Gray Davis losing in CA didn't change anything). If he wins, his opponents pretty much have lost. Well, lost the direct battles. Sarah Palin shows what kind of guerrilla politics Democrats are willing to play to undermine someone they politically disagree with.

garage mahal said...

I'll be here to say I told you so when your feeble, underfunded candidate is overwhelmed by brilliant Scott Walker advertising that transforms the man you love to hate into a feisty, scrappy hero.

Haha. You're right, he is a billionaire Koch chew toy. I guess he can run on that. But unemployment is up in Wisconsin, even after declaring we're open for business, and choking every piece of legislation his Koch/ALEC patrons could have ever wanted though. Hopefully we'll see a lot of John Doe Walker corruption probe commercials. And the fake Koch phone call. Should be fun!

MadisonMan said...

It's a big waste of money. But think of the blogging opportunities!

I am underwhelmed by the list of potential Democratic opponents. Falk might be okay but -- it is shallow of me to say this -- I can just never get past her horrible dye job. She looks ridiculous. Embrace the grey, Kathleen!

You know who would be an interesting candidate? That lady who owns Epic.

I will guarantee that the person who runs will not bring up the Union Issue at all.

Dustin said...

"Triangle Man said...

"As a taxpayer..."

You aren't a taxpayer Althouse. You are a public employee. Part of the problem. A leech. Haven't you been paying attention to your commenters?"

Is this sarcasm?

It's not like she doesn't work for a living. Granted, I imagine her job is pretty plum, but that's because the invisible hand has favored those with a particular set of credentials and skills.

She does do a job in exchange for pay, and universities are businesses for the most part.

Curious George said...

Althouse:

The John Doe Walker corruption probe will make that recall much easier, or maybe even unnecessary.

Haven't you heard?

Sure, I know that Walker hasn't actually been charged with anything. Or even accused of anything. But I have it on good authority. garage mahal heard from somebody who heard it from somebody who read it on a lefty blog.

Mark said...

By the end of the month, Scott Walker will have caused another outbreak of outrage.

The fall legislative session starts next week, also the State Employee rules changes will be released soon. Add mining bills, possible changes to WRS ... keep your comfortable shoes handy.

The weather is cooling, but Madison is about to heat up.

Feel free to disbelieve, but the writing is on the wall.

Also - just wait for this week's polling regarding the recall ... Walker's sliding.

Mitochondri-Allie said...

So Althouse differentiates herself from the protesters by saying she is a taxpayer. Do you honestly think all the protesters were not taxpayers also? Until the constitution of Wisconsin is changed recalls are part of it.

As a resident of Waukesha county I pay my fair share of taxes and have to wonder if my vote was counted or was "lost" somewhere.

Walkers administration is under a John doe investigation. Just the fake phone call from Daddy Koch should've been enough to cast suspicion on this Governor. YES recall, yes investigate and yes to him leaving office in disgrace.

traditionalguy said...

There is a strange anger at Scot Walker that is greater than he deserves for running for election and winning.

That reveals a shame based need of the liberals to hide what Walker's election has exposed in Wisconsin's politics.

There is a time to be the super liberal, and there is a time to avoid the bankruptcy that befalls Madison liberals when the borrowed cash trains stop running.

The time will come to give the Madison liberals power again, but common sense says it is not time yet.

Maguro said...

Joann Kloppenberg isn't doing anything right now.

just sayin'.

Alex said...

Look if Scott Walker is doing a great job then he'll win the recall election, if not he's outta there. Remember he only won 52% of the vote in a year that the GOP was doing HUGE all over the country. So WI is no wingnut state, and they did NOT elect Walker to bust the unions and gut the safety net. It is simply a mindless FEAR reaction to the times.

Shouting Thomas said...

For once, Althouse, I simply agree with you.

Peter said...

Walker needs better P.R.

Act 10 is working well to reduce government expenses practically everywhere in Wisconsin. And I think most voters understand that asking gov't employees to pay something toward their pension and medical plan is reasonable.


Funding full retirement at age 57 means that many gov't employees will get a year of retirement for every year they worked, and is a very costly benefit. Raising the age for full retirement from 57 to 67 would be a better solution, but, it's not legally possible.

And, practically all of us in the private sector- those who ultimately fund these benefits- are paying more for health insurance, and getting less for it (higher co-pays, higher deductibles, etc., etc.)

But the P.R. message that really needs to get out there is, the reason why your local taxes either didn't go up or increased only slightly is- Act 10.

That, and Act 10 makes possible BETTER public education at lower costs- by removing work rules from the bargaining table. It's at least as much about improving public education as about reducing its cost.

These are important messages, and I don't think they're being told effectively

Michael said...

I think that all elected officials in Wisconsin should be subject to recall including the winners in the event a recall is successful. I believe that is the way democracy in Wisconsin should look. I believe you need to have everybody sit in a big ass circle and get the drums to stop and get the guy with the bullhorn from Atlanta to show you how to wave your hands. And then everybody should speak in short clauses which the entire crowd will repeat. Because that is what Wisconsin appears to deserve.

Peter said...

Walker needs better P.R.

Act 10 is working well to reduce government expenses practically everywhere in Wisconsin. And I think most voters understand that asking gov't employees to pay something toward their pension and medical plan is reasonable.


Funding full retirement at age 57 means that many gov't employees will get a year of retirement for every year they worked, and is a very costly benefit. Raising the age for full retirement from 57 to 67 would be a better solution, but, it's not legally possible.

And, practically all of us in the private sector- those who ultimately fund these benefits- are paying more for health insurance, and getting less for it (higher co-pays, higher deductibles, etc., etc.)

But the P.R. message that really needs to get out there is, the reason why your local taxes either didn't go up or increased only slightly is- Act 10.

That, and Act 10 makes possible BETTER public education at lower costs- by removing work rules from the bargaining table. It's at least as much about improving public education as about reducing its cost.

These are important messages, and I don't think they're being told effectively.

And, yes, the bar for recall should be higher. Otherwise a recall is just a demand for a do-over.

garage mahal said...

But I have it on good authority. garage mahal heard from somebody who heard it from somebody who read it on a lefty blog.

Did Walker hire a lawyer on heresay on a lefty blog I wonder? Why would the FBI bring a battering ram to one of his top aide's house? Did they hear something on a lefty blog? You have to admit this does not come at a good time for Walker.

Also, why didn't Walker campaign for even of the recall senators? Surely he would want to talk about all his new great tools?

MadisonMan said...

I will probably sign a recall petition if someone comes to my door asking me to. Why? Because I always sign anything to get it on a ballot. That's the cost of living in a Representative Democracy -- elections and voting. I don't think Walker will lose (unless that FBI investigation actually is investigating something felonious. I have my doubts) and it'll be interesting to see the reaction when *that* happens.

Similarly, I always buy Girl Scout cookies if a kid asks me. But if you're a parent and you just bring your kid's form into work and put it in the break room, no way in hell will I buy.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

When a child sitting in his high chair doesn't get his way, he bawls and bangs his sippy cup in protest. He thinks if he disrupts the status quo enough, the adults in charge will see things his way and give in to his demands. The adult attempting to appeal to the child's logic and reason is generally a futile exercise.

And that's exactly how I see the Madison protesters. They didn't get their way in the last election so they think banging their sippy cups on the high chair will help them get a different result from the adults who set the rules with the last election.

Alex said...

remember all the teabaggers did was push a few % of voters in Nov 2010 based on FEAR politics. Now those people are realizing that what they elected is a union-buster and social-safety net-buster and they are horrified.

Right garage?

Chuck66 said...

My take? People who didn't vote for Governor Walker last November, and aren't going to vote for him in November 2014, will sit this out as they don't believe in non-stop elections and recalls over policy differences.

Just to be jerks, if Democrats go ahead with this (and it looks like they are), Republicans should try to recall a Democrat or 2. I say Kathaleen Vinehout from western Wisconsin. She won by a fraction of 1% last November is and one of the fleabaggers. And she is increbily annoying.

Chuck66 said...

Mark....the mining issue. There are a lot of old-style Democrats in northern Wisconsin that recent rich people in Madison and Milwaukee trying to keep northern Wisconsin poor.

Moose said...

So here is a somewhat off topic question: if making voters verify their identity when voting in elections is the slippery slope to facism, why isn't "verifying" signatures in these recall petitions the same awful thing?

edutcher said...

Of course, he could accept the #2 spot on the Republican ticket.

That would make everyone happy.

Wouldn't it?

garage mahal said...

(unless that FBI investigation actually is investigating something felonious. I have my doubts)

There has already been a felonious conviction from the probe. The dude at Southern Railroad. And another player at Southern has been granted immunity. Wonder if it involves the sweet contracts awarded to them?

Choo choo!

Chuck66 said...

I think I speak for everyone when I say we have no clue what Garage is talking about when he talkes about the "southern railroad".

garage mahal said...

Wisconsin & Southern Railroad Co

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Did Walker hire a lawyer on heresay on a lefty blog I wonder?"

Did he hire an attorney?

"Why would the FBI bring a battering ram to one of his top aide's house? Did they hear something on a lefty blog?"

They thought that she might not be home and the door could be locked?


"You have to admit this does not come at a good time for Walker."

Actually, I think it's a lot to do about nothing.

"Also, why didn't Walker campaign for even of the recall senators? Surely he would want to talk about all his new great tools?"

I'm guessing there could be lot's of reasons...the Senators knew their personal connection to their districts would carry the day, they didn't want every crackpot lefty that follows Walker around protesting and adding fuel tothe "no" votes turn-out efforts.

Keep clutching at straws garage.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Did Walker hire a lawyer on heresay on a lefty blog I wonder?"

Did he hire an attorney?

"Why would the FBI bring a battering ram to one of his top aide's house? Did they hear something on a lefty blog?"

They thought that she might not be home and the door could be locked?


"You have to admit this does not come at a good time for Walker."

Actually, I think it's a lot to do about nothing.

"Also, why didn't Walker campaign for even of the recall senators? Surely he would want to talk about all his new great tools?"

I'm guessing there could be lot's of reasons...the Senators knew their personal connection to their districts would carry the day, they didn't want every crackpot lefty that follows Walker around protesting and adding fuel tothe "no" votes turn-out efforts.

Keep clutching at straws garage.

Chuck66 said...

Drudge has link to youtube...the occupy Atlanta rally, showing the white folks at the rally refusing to let African-American civil rights hero and congressman John Lewis speak.

Racism at its worst.

Chuck66 said...

Garage, Mr Gardner is a hard working and successful businessman (unlike most Democrats). His mistake involved funneling money to the pro-business candidate for Governor. Nothing to do with conspiracy theories about secret gov't contracts.

Carol_Herman said...

From what I learned at a Walmart's drive, every signature is worth 50-cents to the person who goes to collect them. (You thought these were volunteers?)

Now, even if you're "verifying" more than half a million "voters" ... who are giving you their real names and home addresses ... What's such a database worth to Karl Rove? Or any other politician?

Winning?

That's another ballgame.

garage mahal said...

A bit of background here on William Gardner, and Ken Lucht, the lobbyist for Southern who was granted immunity.

Mark said...

Chuck - Mining is a quite varied issue, your point is good.

But, it certainly is rife for discord, I'm also uncertain if the tribes up there [who have already visited the Capitol, lawyers in tow] have casino money for media.

Given most residents of this state see that area as a nice place to vacation, one would think a media campaign might be effective [either side] as local voices will go unheard.

Personally, I don't know that part of the state as well as everywhere else. A little west and I know that area in and out - would have asked about it, know locals opinions.

Freeman Hunt said...

In the past I've thought it might be nice to allow recall elections.

Wisconsin has changed my mind.

When you have recalls, election season never ends. Beh.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
There has already been a felonious conviction from the probe. The dude at Southern Railroad. And another player at Southern has been granted immunity. Wonder if it involves the sweet contracts awarded to them?"

LOL. Do you know that Gardner, the felon in question, also gave illegal money to Jim Doyle?

Prosecutors also confirmed that there was no evidence linking Walker to any of Gardner's activities.

Straws. You grasp them.

Carol_Herman said...

Before Clark's name slips away completely ... who can forget that legendary phone call to a woman named Susan?

"Hello, have you heard about the recall?"

"YES! And, such a shame! Bang went down the telepbone ... but the answering machine was still "on."

"Boy, said, Clark, I'd love to call her back just to be the crap out of her." (Close enough for my own memory's inspection.)

BRING. IT. ON!

Keep Walker's name in the news!

You know, it's a STATEWIDE election, don't cha?

And, WISCONSIN's 10 electoral college votes ... can go to the Republican side of the November 2012 tally ... don't cha?

HDHouse said...

"as a taxpayer...." as if others signing and paying aren't.

perhaps everyone should have a blog that shills for supplemental income so that they would have the luxury to decry those who have a legit interest in getting rid of this cheesehead.

MadisonMan said...

Did he hire an attorney?

Isn't Biskupic of Georgia Thompson infamy working for him?

Freeman, the non-stop election season does get old and exhausting, I agree, although I also am pretty easily able to ignore things 'cause I don't watch TV or listen to the radio.

Chuck66 said...

The mining issue bugs me due to Pagen earth worshippers. As the Flambeau mine at Ladysmith showed, modern mining is very safe. But lefties and the uninformed oppose all mining no matter what the science says.

Now the Indians. Often a sizable "donation" to a program that "hires" "administrators" picked by the tribal chair makes a big difference in support. Although casino money makes this less effective than it was in the past.

Chuck66 said...

Gardners railroad employees a lot of people in southern and eastern Wisconsin. The industries he serves employee very large numbers.

Yes, his donations to Diamond Jim and Walker were wrong, but I will not demonize him. He does far more good than bad for the state.

This reminds me of Democrats who want to close down the Georgia Pacific mills in Green Bay and force the 2600 unionized people ouit of work.

Pogo said...

"Freeman, the non-stop election season does get old and exhausting, I agree"

Yet earlier you wrote:
"I will probably sign a recall petition if someone comes to my door asking me to."

A bit of cognitive dissonance.

MadisonMan said...

Pogo, how is that dissonant? I will sign anything -- it takes a minute of my time -- and then I ignore the mayhem I help create.

cubanbob said...

MadisonMan said...
I will probably sign a recall petition if someone comes to my door asking me to. Why? Because I always sign anything to get it on a ballot. That's the cost of living in a Representative Democracy -- elections and voting. I don't think Walker will lose (unless that FBI investigation actually is investigating something felonious. I have my doubts) and it'll be interesting to see the reaction when *that* happens.

Similarly, I always buy Girl Scout cookies if a kid asks me. But if you're a parent and you just bring your kid's form into work and put it in the break room, no way in hell will I buy.

10/10/11 11:03 AM

That has got to be one of the dumbest comments ever posted here by an otherwise intelligent person.
Which whacko group wanting some ballot measure petition signed do you want knocking on your door?

TosaGuy said...

Between the filing of the recall and the setting of the election date, most Wisconsin property owners will have a zero to 1 percent increase in their property tax bill -- compared to the double digit increases many had been seeing in previous years.

Many of these people will thank Scott Walker for taking the union hand out of their wallet.

Also, the Dem bench is weak. A fleeing senator will get nowhere. Madison liberals will get nowhere. Ron Kind now has a house seat for life. David Obey......good luck with that. The Dems best shot is a moderate, non-politician from the business sector and the Dem political elite won't let that happen.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

But wait, guys! Cynthia Archer was writing pro-Walker letters to the Journal Sentinel ON STATE TIME! Someone must swing for that!

Pogo said...

You should just put your signature stamp at your door for people to sign their petitions.

Less bother.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

Which whacko group wanting some ballot measure petition signed do you want knocking on your door?

There really aren't a lot of ballot measures in my district. Or in Wisconsin in general. The pesky door-knockers -- the ones I send away disappointed -- are the ones from WISPIRG, or other interest groups that are collecting petition signatures for -- I'm never sure, complaint forms to the Government? -- and asking for donations too. What a crappy job for a college kid in the summer. (The only thing signing and donating gets you is on the sucker list for future mailings. Sure, maybe that helps the Post Office with its deficit by increasing mail volume, but no Thanks)

People with signing petitions to get on the ballot for City Council, or State or US Representative, or School board, or whatever -- I sign those regardless of who they are. I want lots of choices. If they're working to get on the ballot, why not accommodate them?

Dad29 said...

Of all the (D) mentions, only Kind has half a chance outside of Dane County (or Stevens POint.)

TosaGuy said...

People like voter ID. They like conceal carry. They like no tax hikes. They like more efficient schools. They like balanced budgets.

Most could care less about picayunish campaign rule I dotting and T crossing -- no matter how much the jackass party brays on about it.

Chuck66 said...

Actually Kind is a member of the Wisconsin Synod Lutheran church. The Democrat party has declared war on that church, so he may have a problem.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

But wait, guys! Cynthia Archer was writing pro-Walker letters to the Journal Sentinel ON STATE TIME! Someone must swing for that!

Do you honestly believe the FBI brought a battering ram to her house over that? I love how the Election Integrity Squad suddenly is very forgiving about election fraud too.

"Just a little felony election fraud so far here guys".

TosaGuy said...

A Dem candidate would also have to put forth plans and ideas about how they would govern -- without tieing themselves to the sinking Obama or without bringing up the union issue or without raising taxes. They would also have to restain themselves mightily from catering to the protest vote to the point of turning off independents. The protest block at its most rabid was smaller than the ardent conservative block in the state. Riling them up for support will only rile up the conservative block -- all while gaining a wary eye from the independent block.

Ann Althouse said...

"The recall process in Wisconsin is too low a hurdle. They do not have to win this battle. I am sure they recognize they may not win this battle. Their goal is to disrupt Scott Walker so much that he gets nothing done and they can eventually replace him."

My point is this will backfire as Walker is forced to put on a big campaign proving his worth to the voters. It gives him an immense platform and demands that he roll out his best propaganda. The other side will be overwhelmed. That's what I predict. He's had so much time to plan this. Think of all the things he'd like to say in response to his detractors. He's been fairly silent. It's not his style to be a big self-promoter. But if they demand that he justify his administration, I think he'll do it big time.

Ann Althouse said...

"You aren't a taxpayer Althouse."

So all the public school teachers... they aren't taxpayers? Cops, firefighters... they're not taxpayers? Sanitation workers, custodians, etc. etc... none of them count as taxpayers, because no matter how much they pay in taxes, they'd have to pay 100% of their salary as tax before they could be considered taxpayers? That's the theory you want to defend?

But most of my salary is accounted for by tuition paid by students, not by tax money... so you have a much harder time making that theory work on me.

Anyway, I pay $13,000 a year in property taxes alone, so if you don't think I'm a taxpayer, you must believe in seriously confiscatory tax policy.

Dustin said...

So someone can't criticize wasteful spending, noting they pay taxes, because those who want to waste spending just assume their supporters pay taxes too?

That's irrational. Whatever political advantage may come from this, the fact is that WI needs to save money.

Chuck66 said...

I agree AA. One of the things that bugged me about Bush 43 is that he didn't care what people thought about him, so he rarely defended, or even explained, his policies. It made it hard for those of us you generally supported him.

So if Governor Walker gets out there and does some positive speaches and ads explaining what he is doing and why, it would help him. As John Kerry found out, it is hard to win an election against even a marginal opponent if all you are running on is "I am not him".

Chuck66 said...

"Anyway, I pay $13,000 a year in property taxes alone,"


Good Lord! That's a lot of money for the privledge of living in a nice, house in Madison.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Every time I think how messed up California is politically, Wisconsin tops us.

A big advantage to living out in the country, long distances between homes, in areas where it gets really cold in the winter is that we don't have people going door to door to solicit anything. Well, except for the Jehovah's Witnesses. Even the census people couldn't be bothered to canvas.

Other advantage is that we don't have a lot of the types of protestors and faux hippies cluttering up the area like you do in Wisconsin. No fake homeless trying to live off of welfare, begging for money on street corners (we don't have many street 'corners') or having fun protesting, drumming and chanting. Too cold, too far away from anyone who gives a shit about their causes and and most everyone even the resident hippies have better things to do.

Don't get me wrong. We have our resident 'hippie' population. They are artists, ranchers, farmers (probably grow pot too along with the organic veggies, who cares) weavers, potters, etc. They participate in the community, have kids who go to school, show up for Chamber meetings, belong to the crafting guilds (which are very big in this area) and generally take a live and let live attitude and contribute greatly to the area.

We can do without the meth heads or meth labs. Which are mainly from illegal aliens who have taken over the national forests. We are working on that.

We also have people who are truly down and out, temporarily homeless and in need of food. For that we have food pantries and shelters sponsored by churches and non profits. The chronic permanent welfare lifestyle slugs move on to warmer pastures. It is no fun in -12 degree weather when you can hang out in SF or Eureka or San Diego instead.

What Wisconsin needs is for winter to come soon and to be a long cold one. Remove the incentive to protest. Take away the cash subsidies for the worthless leeches on society. Then see how much enthusiasm there is for fun protesting.

Alex said...

Fleebaggers, dirty hippie protestors are irrelevant. What's relevant is Walker came to office on FALSE pretenses.

Ann Althouse said...

"So Althouse differentiates herself from the protesters by saying she is a taxpayer. Do you honestly think all the protesters were not taxpayers also?"

You need to read with better understanding.

My position is that the recall is a horrible waste of tax money. That some taxpayers are enthusiastic about the waste doesn't make them not taxpayers just as it doesn't make the waste not a waste.

Pay attention to what I'm actually saying, not the crazy whirlwinds of your mind.

Chuck66 said...

Alex, do you support Obama for coming to office on FALSE pretenses?

-$14,000,000,000,000 national debt
-Illegal warrentless domestic spying
-Bombing peoples of color in Libya
-Murdering people in Pakistan
-$535,000,000 to his friends in Big Solar
-9.1% unemployment
-Banning enforcement of immigration laws
-Banning private health insurance that doesn't give you free (sic) birth control

Mitochondri-Allie said...

It was Darlene Wink who was commenting on MJS articles on County computers and time, not Cynthia Archer. Archer is a much bigger fish.

Chuck66 said...

Did I mention locking up Muslims in Gitmo and military tribunals?

Ann Althouse said...

"Did Walker hire a lawyer on heresay on a lefty blog I wonder? Why would the FBI bring a battering ram to one of his top aide's house? Did they hear something on a lefty blog? You have to admit this does not come at a good time for Walker."

I assume you're trying to write the word "hearsay" and not "heresy."

But what kind of liberal would blame someone for hiring a lawyer when there is a legal threat to a person? Why do we provide lawyers to criminal defendants? Why not say they don't need one if they're innocent? You need a lawyer if you have a legal problem, including the legal problem that consists of political opponents trying to pin technical regulatory problems on you... or whatever is going on in that John Doe thing. In fact, you need a lawyer to try to avoid making inadvertent violations of complicated regulations that apply to political candidates.

It's a wonder anyone conscientious wants to run for office.

cubanbob said...

Ann Althouse said...

I don't live in WI so I really can't comment on the situation there. But from judging from your blog posts what exactly are the democrats arguing that Walker should be recalled for? That wealthy Wisconsinites don't pay their share of taxes and that public sector unions and and their membership should be treated as royalty?
That the state should taxing and spending more?

If that is the case the democrats are making, then the recall movement as financially wasteful and distracting as it would be would indeed serve a useful purpose in clarifying things for Wisconsin voters and it would continue to resonate well in to next November's election. Unless some super secret polls have indicated to the democrats they have a very winnable position and great opportunity to knock off the governor this recall movement appears to be a mix of delusion, fantasy and stupidity. Which is SOP for progressive democrats.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

Obama did not come into office on false pretenses. He has fulfilled just about every promise he made in 2008. It's the GOP that constantly needs to lie, lie, lie and lie some more because their ideology is so repugnant to the American people since 1930.

Scott M said...

because their ideology is so repugnant to the American people since 1930

And this explains the 2010 midterms how?

Alex said...

1980, 1994, 2010 all explainable by massive GOP funded lie machines. Lee Atwater was famous for it.

sorepaw said...
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Chuck66 said...

cubanbob, I think Walker will easily win any recall vote, but, the Democrats will go ahead anyway for 2 reasons:

1) They have so much hatred for Governor Walker that they can't use reason
2) Many Democrats have no intellectual diversity in their lives, so they everyone around them thinks just like them. "Everyone I know will vote against the Governor".

TosaGuy said...

And the Dems have to defend a senate seat in 2012, which I suspect that national party would rather devote resources to. I also think the national unions won't spend much money in the state either after flushing millions for nothing over the senate recalls. They also have to prop up their guy in the white house -- that takes precident over some governor in fly-over country.

Chuck66 said...

Alex, like closing Gitmo, civilian trials for terrorists, getting us out of Iraq, getting government spending under control, stopping illegal warrentless domestic spying?

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Do you honestly believe the FBI brought a battering ram to her house over that?"

Do yourself a favor and google "battering ram"+ "search warrant" and you will see that there use by cops is pretty wide spread. It's simply a quick and easy way t gain access.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
cubanbob said...

Ann Althouse said...

Anyway, I pay $13,000 a year in property taxes alone, so if you don't think I'm a taxpayer, you must believe in seriously confiscatory tax policy.

I drool at the thought of having to only pay $13,000 in property taxes.

And still have to pay for private school. Oh well, at least I don't have a state and local income tax to deal with

As for the commenter who said that public sector employees really don't pay taxes, in strict economic terms that is true to the extent the employee's income is derived from other peoples taxes. The tax paid by the employee is actually a salary reduction. Still whether it be a tax or a pay cut the wallet still smarts from the reduction in income.

Titus said...

Walker is brill?

I would do him.

I pinched two beautiful loafs this morning.

Crunchy Frog said...

Oh and I stand by the OWS defacators.

Careful Alex, you'll get some of it on your shoes.

garage mahal said...

You need a lawyer if you have a legal problem, including the legal problem that consists of political opponents trying to pin technical regulatory problems on you... or whatever is going on in that John Doe thing.

Political opponenets launched the John Doe investigation? I don't think that's how John Doe investigations work. It's being overseen by a retired Waukesha County judge.

And if you don't want "technical regulatory problems" pinned on you, it's best to abide by the regulations to begin with?

MadisonMan said...

Good Lord! That's a lot of money for the privledge of living in a nice, house in Madison.

Yes, the property taxes here are high. Too many pet projects by Aldermen who only see limitless dollars available for the Gov to "fix" things (example: Putting lights on the SW Bike Path) . My house is modest, but I expect to break into the 5-figure zone for property taxes within the next two or three years.

Alex said...

What's wrong with putting lights on a bike path so bikers can be safer and drivers don't have to worry about killing bikers?

Mitochondri-Allie said...

What IS a waste of taxpayer money is what the Walker Administration could potentionally cost this state in defending lawsuits required to overturn his unconstitutional laws. How much did he cost Milwaukee County when the courts overturned his policy of privatizing Milwaukee County Courthouse security guards?

Who has been paying his legal fees to date?

His ratings have plummeted, he is under FBI Investigation, what better time for a recall, worth every dime.

Scott M said...

What's wrong with putting lights on a bike path so bikers can be safer and drivers don't have to worry about killing bikers?

Not a damned thing. What's wrong with letting me opt out of social security and letting me take care of it on my own?

ALH said...

So, Madison Man is a softy for door to door sales?

Darn it- I missed my opportunity to bring my Tiger Scout over with his severly overpriced popcorn! Oh well, next year.

Ann Althouse said...

"This is a reference to the distinction, employed by Rothbardian libertarians, between net tax payers and net tax consumers."

Well, it's wrong in my case, since the law school is funded by tuition for the most part (and I pay very high taxes).

Alex said...

Not a damned thing. What's wrong with letting me opt out of social security and letting me take care of it on my own?

Scott - the reason most people find libertarianism repugnant is the constant opposition to measures that improve communities, like lighting bike paths. When you oppose things like this - normal people get disgusted with you and your abstract ideology. Maybe the problem is with YOU.

Ann Althouse said...

"And if you don't want "technical regulatory problems" pinned on you, it's best to abide by the regulations to begin with?"

It's not easy to abide by technical regulations is my point. You need a lawyer, or you need to stay out of the regulated activity (which is what most of us do).

At some point you have the candidates resorting to whining: "There is no controlling legal authority that says this was in violation of law." Things like that. You know what I mean?

ignatzk said...

garage mahal said...

But wait, guys! Cynthia Archer was writing pro-Walker letters to the Journal Sentinel ON STATE TIME! Someone must swing for that!

Do you honestly believe the FBI brought a battering ram to her house over that?


Isn't all this just harassment/persecution from Trumka and Obama?

garage mahal said...

Isn't all this just harassment/persecution from Trumka and Obama?

Neither of those two launched the John Doe.

TosaGuy said...

"How much did he cost Milwaukee County when the courts overturned his policy of privatizing Milwaukee County Courthouse security guards?"

It won't cost Milwaukee County a thing when current county exec Chris Abele does the same thing. Since he is a lefty dem, he is allowed to do that.

MadisonMan said...

What's wrong with putting lights on a bike path so bikers can be safer and drivers don't have to worry about killing bikers?

There are no drivers on a bike path -- if by drivers you mean automobile drivers.

If you are so timid to ride at night that you insist on having a well-lit path, vs. going out on your own and buying a good bike light (that you should have anyway if you're biking at night), then you aren't going to use a lit path anyway once it is there -- you'll find another excuse not to ride.

Lighting a bike path will be useful for about 10 or 15 bike riders per night in winter. I think limited city funds could be used elsewhere; for example, how about helping to expand/modernize the Alliant Energy Center so that it can continue to attract big Expositions that flood the County with money?

Alex said...

Madison Man - if the lighting path helps save 15 lives it's worth it. But I know for you Rethugs, human life doesn't matter much against dollars.

Original Mike said...

"My point is this will backfire as Walker is forced to put on a big campaign proving his worth to the voters."

Like the facts matter to these people?

I'm concerned that not enough rational people will come to the polls to outvote the froth-at-the-mouth crowd.

Original Mike said...

"Every time I think how messed up California is politically, Wisconsin tops us."

Hey, we've got a balanced budget. You?

Mitochondri-Allie said...

Alex, big government when it comes to taking away a womans right to choose, but small government when it comes to keeping people already born safe.

MadisonMan said...

Alex, nice try.

MadisonMan said...

@OMike, it was mean to taunt DBQ that way.

sane_voter said...

Another recall, another $100 I must give to the Wisconsin GOP. Gotta fight the good fight

ignatzk said...

Taxes from governing bodies and quasi-governing bodies in Dane County are exorbitant. The community college had a referendum last year and really socked it to taxpayers. Part of the problem is that people who do not pay taxes get to vote on taking tax money from those who do.

Does anyone know how the government pays for all the various grants (Pell and others) going to students for tuition?

Not necessarily the student loans which (theoretically) need to be repaid, although the government does cover defaulted loans.

From speculation, it is hard to believe no component of tax revenue goes to tuition.

Kit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BJM said...

You're right, he is a billionaire Koch chew toy. I guess he can run on that.

And the billionaire Kaiser chew toy in the WH is different how?

Original Mike said...

@MM: She's a big girl. She can take it.

ignatzk said...

garage mahal said...

Isn't all this just harassment/persecution from Trumka and Obama?

Neither of those two launched the John Doe.


"Launching" is merely a formality, like getting a building permit. You won't find actual fingerprints.

Let's play the game in reverse - whatever the problem is, it was inherited from Jim Doyle. Blame Doyle, yeah, that's the ticket.

PETER V. BELLA said...

Just another waste of time and money. Sheesh, you would think the lefties would find something productive to do, like actually work.

garage mahal said...

"Launching" is merely a formality, like getting a building permit. You won't find actual fingerprints.

The probe was launched before he was even sworn in as governor.

BJM said...

@Original Mike

Hey, we've got a balanced budget. You?

Piece of cake...didn't you hear that California will fine scofflaws a $100 for not licensing their dogs? We'll be in the money in no time!

ignatzk said...

Alex said...

Madison Man - if the lighting path helps save 15 lives it's worth it


To paraphrase President Obama: "maybe you'd be better off walking to work than having the surgery"

And besides, that's money that could be used to buy cots and hots for citizens staying overnight in the new library.

Patrick said...

Garage, is your point that hiring a lawyer is an indication of guilt? If not, what is your point?

Original Mike said...

"Garage, ... what is your point?"

Republicans bad.

Patrick said...

Garage - Should Obama be impeached for making loans to his political cronies at Solyndra? Even after he was told the company was going under, and that making the half billion dollar loan was riskier than DOE standards allow?

Are all of Obama's cronies at Solyndra guilty because they not only hired lawyers, they also pleaded the 5th Amendment?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

garage mahal said...

Isn't all this just harassment/persecution from Trumka and Obama?

Neither of those two launched the John Doe.


If it is an FBI investigation it was "launched " by the Holder Justice Department, and we all know how honest and non-partisan they are.

Hey, garage, how much do you want to bet that Walker stays in office longer than Holder? I'm open to any stakes.

garage mahal said...

If it is an FBI investigation it was "launched " by the Holder Justice Department, and we all know how honest and non-partisan they are.

It's not an FBI investigation. The FBI was probably asked to help as our fearless non-partisan Attorney General declined to assist in the investigation.

Hey, garage, how much do you want to bet that Walker stays in office longer than Holder? I'm open to any stakes.

I'll bet $20.00 The loser has to pay into whatever charity the winner direct them to. Deal?

sorepaw said...
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Original Mike said...

Mock election tomorrow in Madison. How much you want to bet the Democrats cheat?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

You're on, garage. I give Holder until December 1st. His star is setting most rapidly.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tyrone Slothrop said...

@garage

September 14, 2011 (CHICAGO) (WLS) -- A team of FBI agents executed search warrants at a home on the east side of Madison, Wisconsin, Wednesday.

Not an FBI investigation? You could have fooled me.

Meade said...

cubanbob said...

[...]what exactly are the [D]emocrats arguing that Walker should be recalled for?

There are at least three commenters in this thread who are pro-recall. Four, if you include MadisonMan.

None of them, in 25 words or less, can make a clear argument in favor of recall. Instead, they will only reveal their paranoia, lack of reason, and fundamental anti-democratic beliefs. One will predictably reveal his inconvenient thugishness.

And that is why, if Walker is recalled, he will be reelected and awarded with, as the professor made clear, a new and powerful mandate from the voters of Wisconsin.

garage mahal said...

Not an FBI investigation? You could have fooled me.

To my understanding they were asked to assist. Probably with that search and seizure. And to my understanding John Does are not led by the FBI.

HDHouse said...

well if it doesn't work out for walker he can always get a job teaching law.

Rick67 said...

"The normal thing to do is to stick to the choice already made and to judge the success of the governor's policies at the end of his term."

What's amazing is how much we're told "Obama just needs more time for his policies to turn things around" (and we're already 3 years in) but dagnamit we need to get rid of Scott Walker *now*!!!

(And at least Walker can point to specific evidence that his policies are working - and almost immediately.)

You know what really frosts my mug about the social-political left? Not their views per se so much as their rank hypocrisy and double-standards.

MadisonMan said...

There are at least three commenters in this thread who are pro-recall. Four, if you include MadisonMan.

You misread my position. This is not a complaint, I realize I am obfuscatory -- deliberately. It's a survival tactic.

Pogo said...

Given the shunning possible in Madison, obfuscation of personal matters seems quite wise.

Original Mike said...

Guess we're not going hear garage's defense of the recall. I'm not surprised.

Original Mike said...

"You misread my position. This is not a complaint, I realize I am obfuscatory -- deliberately. It's a survival tactic."

It's chickening out.

garage mahal said...

Guess we're not going hear garage's defense of the recall. I'm not surprised

I wasn't asked. The thread post didn't ask either.

Original Mike said...

Meade asked at 2:07 (and you know it).

garage mahal said...

Cut and paste the actual question. I don't see it.

Kit said...

OM, there was no question. It was a declarative statement.

Original Mike said...

Kit: It was a challenge (or, at least it would be read as such by most people).

Original Mike said...

Passive-aggressive, thy name is garage mahal.

MadisonMan said...

It's chickening out.

Not volunteering information is chickening out?

If someone asks, I tell them. No one asked if I support the recall.

Assumptions are dangerous things.

MadisonMan said...

Passive-aggressive, thy name is garage mahal.

Passive-aggressive is the Midwestern Way!

Maybe I've told this story: I was out walking the dog, and as usual, my well-behaved dog is not on a leash. He will stop on command, and sit on command and totally ignores other dogs, cats, whatever it out there that most dogs will become alert around. I passed a woman walking her own leashed dog, and she asked me if I knew that dogs had to be on a leash. All I could think was: How passively-aggressive midwestern of her! Why not bitch about my unleashed dog! (Of course, I didn't confront her on it). I just replied Yes and went on my way.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Hey, we've got a balanced budget. You?

LOL. A contest to see who lives in the most effed up State....woo hoo.

CEQA 366 pages of lunacy to prevent anything from being built anywhere at anytime.

Green building code to make sure that affordable and comfortable housing cannot be built.

At least Brown had the common sense to keep the State from being involved in baby's penises.

We have Nancy Pelosi...I WIN! or lose or something.

Original Mike said...

"I just replied Yes and went on my way."

Your wife must be a saint.

Kit said...

(Of course, I didn't confront her on it)

of course.

MadisonMan said...

Hey, I can at least recognize passive aggressive now. That's a big step.

But yes, she is. I am extremely fortunate and I know my life is tremendously blessed.

Kit said...

OM - I don't know that it's a challenge, he seems pretty sure.

MM - ;)

garage mahal said...

OM
I don't know why you asked when you know you don't really care what I think. But, my biggest beef is the assault on open government, [LaFollette's legacy], and the education cuts. The legislature took power out of it's own hands and put it soley in charge of one person, Walker. Overall, the things he has made a priority to destroy has served the state well.

Michael said...

MadisonMan: I frequently run into unleashed dogs, perfectly trained, who gallop to their owners across my path. No one with a trained dog believes their dog is subject to the leash laws.

I was in Tokyo one fine Sunday morning about 5AM, walking in the Ginza. A traffic light went red and I noticed the only other person walking on the street, a Japanese, stop to honor the light. There was not a single car on the road, none. He stopped because the law says to stop.

There were 15 handgun murders in Japan that year. School children of very early school age use the subways unaccompanied.

When the laws don't apply the laws don't really exist.

Alex said...

Michael - it's useless comparing a single-ethnic culture(Japan) to the polyglot Balkanized mess that is the USA. We can't function like those nations because we aren't really a nation. Just another Balkans.

Original Mike said...

"OM - I don't know that it's a challenge, he seems pretty sure."

Yes, but when a student exceeds expectations it's one of the most satisfying events in teaching, and you need to give them the opportunity to do it.

Original Mike said...

"But, my biggest beef is the assault on open government, [LaFollette's legacy],"

I don't know what this means. The duly elected legislature passed budget items in the full view of the electorate.

"and the education cuts."

He provided school boards with the means to make up the cuts (which were necessary because we were broke) by cutting employee expenses. The smart boards availed themselves of the opportunity.

"The legislature took power out of it's own hands and put it soley in charge of one person, Walker."

I don't know what this means.

"Overall, the things he has made a priority to destroy has served the state well."

Walker wants to destroy education? Really?

Michael said...

Alex: Perhaps. My point was regarding respect for law and the implications when we find it inconvenient. The Japanese are nearly completely homogenous and that has much to do with their orderly society. But a strict adherence to rules is what permits them to live in close quarters with little in the way of external conflict. I would not swap with them. Yet.

Alex said...

Michael - I would sway with them in an instant! I can't stand America anymore. Too bad I suck with languages.

MadisonMan said...

Michael, my dog does not leave my side when others are around, so worry not that he would impede your progress in any way. I'll let him run if there's nobody there, but when people are approaching, he's next to me, heeling. Call me vigilant.

I will confess to habitually crossing against lights -- but that is Madisonian culture. When I was in Seattle, where natives (for whatever reason) don't cross a perfectly empty street just because the light says not to, I sometimes behaved myself.

Calypso Facto said...

GM: ...the assault on open government, [LaFollette's legacy], and the education cuts.

Assault on open gov't = one bill passed 10 minutes short of the posting req't, that was upheld upon judicial revue?

Education cuts = A 50% spending increase since '02 for a 1% decrease in enrollment???

Those are RECALL offences? A waste of $10 million coming right up.

Alex:I would sway (sic) with them in an instant! I can't stand America anymore. Too bad I suck with languages. Especially English.

garage mahal said...

I don't know what this means. The duly elected legislature passed budget items in the full view of the electorate.

Then you knew the legislature put Walker in charge of the traditionally non partisan GAB just recently? I bet not many know that honestly. He is now quietly in charge of the GAB, the DOA, and the DPI. Naked partisan power grabs to obtain power and hold it has always been his number one agenda.

Alex said...

garage - your Dem fleebaggers tried to subvert the normal democratic process. Why you have no opprobrium for them?

garage mahal said...

Never heard of these pollsters, but if they are to be believed, Walker is in big trouble. Link.

Walker struggles mightily with the middle of the electorate. Independents – those who do not identify with or lean toward either party – support the recall by 16 points, 52-to-36 percent, led by Independent women who overwhelmingly favor the recall. Similarly, self-described Moderates favor the recall by 23
points. These Independents will be a tough audience for Walker to persuade, as nearly three-in-five have an unfavorable opinion of Walker and 56% disapprove of his job performance. Walker also has a
particular problem among women, who favor the recall by 20 points.

Calypso Facto said...

Whatev, garage. Even the last Democrat-sponsored poll published in the Journal Sentinel had disapproval of any further recall attempts at 50%.

Please don't waste our time and money.

alan markus said...

@ Alex @ 10:36; Oh and I stand by the OWS defacators.

Only if Titus isn't blocking the way - might be there comparing pinched loaves. Guy has competition now.

garage mahal said...

Calypso
It's not up to me, although I will happily sign the petition.

richard mcenroe said...

Triangle man. We acknowledge that Ann is a taxpayer. It's just that she's paying her taxes with money we gave her.

That's why government jobs, necessary as they may be, can never spark an economic recovery.

Paddy O said...

So, the Walker thing is about state employees doing political stuff while on state time? Or is there something more?

Because it's weird to be outraged about that when President Obama breezes into California, on Air Force One, using Marine One to get around locally, for fundraisers.

How many millions of dollars, on top of time, did taxpayers pay to support this:
President Barack Obama breezed into California yesterday for some high-profile fundraisers (with Lady Gaga!) in Silicon Valley, and today he's expected to land in Los Angeles at 4:40pm for more of the same.

After a lunch in San Diego, the President will be rolling deep into the heart of West Hollywood, where he's attending two fundraisers less than one mile away from each other. First he'll hit up the iconic House Of Blues on Sunset with singer B.o.B. and the Gay Men's Chorus of Los Angeles (and since tickets started at $250, this event is sold out). It's followed by a $17,900/plate dinner at Fig & Olive on Melrose Place (surprisingly, tickets are still up for grabs if you have some pocket change lying around).


When ethics are partisan based, they sure don't seem all that ethical.

But maybe there's more to the Walker stuff that I haven't heard about.

Meade said...

Here's a progressive idea for you: Let's pass a statute making it possible to preempt bad anti-democratic recalls. I would like to sign a petition to pre-recall your Walker recall. Why wouldn't that be fair?

garage mahal said...

They're wasting no time. Recall date is Nov 15th. Game on, as they say.

Fen said...

Maybe I've told this story: I was out walking the dog, and as usual, my well-behaved dog is not on a leash. He will stop on command, and sit on command and totally ignores other dogs, cats, whatever it out there that most dogs will become alert around. I passed a woman walking her own leashed dog, and she asked me if I knew that dogs had to be on a leash.

No Madison. Its the same concept as "Its not you I'm worrieds about, its all the idiots sharing the road with you".

In college, I worked part-time as a vet tech. I got enough experience to help during surgery. We saw many cases like yours - another unleashed dog attacks yours, and you cant break it up because your own dog isn't wearing a leash.

Put your dog on a leash. For his own safety, not just for someone else.

Meade said...

"Game on, as they say."

Please, garage, please predict that you and your fellow anti-democratic "Progressives" will be successful in your petition efforts and your recall.

garage mahal said...

Meade
You can thank none other than Fighting Bob LaFollette for the recall. He believed in people powered government, something that is antithetic to you and the GOP. And it's only fitting that one of his ideas will be the downfall of a two bit phony stooge like Walker. But you're new to Wisconsin, I don't expect you to understand any of this.

Marti said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

But there may be some hope for you Meade. Walker has taken over an election "accountability board" [shudder], so I wouldn't expect much if any following of the rules. As we've seen over and over. And you have a corrupt and incompetent election clerk in Waukesha Cty, and a statewide bill designed to keep people from the polls.

MadisonMan said...

We saw many cases like yours - another unleashed dog attacks yours, and you cant break it up because your own dog isn't wearing a leash.

If I'm not in my neighborhood, where I (and the dog) know every dog already, I do use a leash. Particularly when I walk the dog through the cemetery at night. (I take the dog then figuring he'll alert me to the presence of zombies). It's very very unusual to see an new dog, or someone I don't actually know with the dog, when I'm walking mine on the regular loop through the neighborhood, because the street is a little bit secluded. If it is a new dog, I'm highly alert to the possibility of aggression.

Welcome back by the way -- I hope your presence doesn't mean you've lost your job.

MadisonMan said...

(Commenting about leashes and dog, however, is pretty non-controversial)

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said...
Meade
You can thank none other than Fighting Bob LaFollette for the recall. He believed in people powered government, something that is antithetic to you and the GOP.


Yet it's interesting that the very first politician recalled under California's new law in 1913 was a Progressive Republican, Marshall Black, probably a FOB (friend of Bob's).

JAL said...

Yes.

Milwaukee said...

Alex: Alex said...
Fleebaggers, dirty hippie protestors are irrelevant. What's relevant is Walker came to office on FALSE pretenses.


Alex, in 100 words or less, could you tell us what you believe to be the most egregious of those false pretenses?

Milwaukee said...

Alex said...
What's wrong with putting lights on a bike path so bikers can be safer and drivers don't have to worry about killing bikers?
10/10/11 12:46 PM


Well, enforce a light on bike ordinance for night hours, just as the DNR enforces lights on boats for night hours.

There is an assumption of implied risk when one undertakes certain outings, such as bicycling at night, walking where bicycles bicycle at any time of the day, venturing out in the elements of winter. Time for big boy pants.

Hell, why stop at lighting those paths? Why not bury heating elements so the snow and ice will always be melted clear?

Milwaukee said...

Alex said...
Madison Man - if the lighting path helps save 15 lives it's worth it. But I know for you Rethugs, human life doesn't matter much against dollars.
10/10/11 1:09


Alex, has there been a rash of bicyclist deaths the Main Stream Media hasn't been reporting on? Has there been even one? Why don't we just subsidize a free taxi service for all and skip biking? Don't you think bicyclists relish the risk taking? We can not protect everybody from everything. A reasonable person has lights on their bike at night, uses both a helmet and reasonable speeds.

And assumes responsibility for their decisions.

Milwaukee said...

Alex: Alex said...
Michael - it's useless comparing a single-ethnic culture(Japan) to the polyglot Balkanized mess that is the USA. We can't function like those nations because we aren't really a nation. Just another Balkans.


This is a theme the socialist-progressive-leftist-America-haters promote. Identity politics. What happened to "One nation, under God, indivisible..."? Well, if everybody is playing identity politics and we all have race, gender, age, weight, myopia, hair-loss, halitosis and I-can-still-wear-a-short-skirt-because-my-sixty-year-old-legs-are-hot cards, then we're not one nation.

I see Alex, that you stand by COWS (crowd occupying wall street) defecaters. (Note correct spelling: defecate, then defecater, plural being defecaters.) Shouldn't that be "squat" by them? I think the dumbshit was just ill. If he was really interested in protesting, he would have squatted on the front or back hood, or perhaps the top of the car. Did he at least pick up his deposit and smear it all over the windows or door handles? Or get himself arrested so he could have lowered his pants and crapped in the interior of the squad car? Just as his comrades are demonstrating a pathetic ability to demostrate, they are truly pathetic demonstrators.

At Gitmo, the Muslim detainees refuse to eat, and so are force fed. Some will collect their own feces, and shove it up their own noses. Then, when Americans go to force feed them, the Americans have to clean up their shit. Now that is dedicated protesting.

Chris said...

Milwaukee,

You are a lunatic. An absolute, total lunatic. You should probably stop blabbing on incessantly like a goddamn moron.

I'm curious to see what the cost would be for lighting on the Madison bike path. We have an extraordinarily high amount of bike traffic (and riders) in this city, and putting lighting on the path makes an awful lot of sense, especially in Madison.

Also, lefty America-haters? Give me a fucking break. Rush called, he needs his personal ball-washer back. Better get going!

Almost Ali said...

They ought to make the jackass-dandelion the state flower.

AllenS said...

garage mahal said...
To my understanding they were asked to assist. Probably with that search and seizure. And to my understanding John Does are not led by the FBI.

There's the problem right there.

WV: dummi

No shit.

edwardroyce said...

It is kinda amazing in a way. Whenever I used to think of Wisconsin, which was frankly never, I thought of butter, cheese and other dairy products.

Now I when I think of Wisconsin, which is hardly ever, I think of butter, cheese, dairy products and some of the craziest people outside of California.

Well done!

garage mahal said...

There's the problem right there.

WV: dummi

No shit.


So, dummi, can you refute any of what I wrote?

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
Then you knew the legislature put Walker in charge of the traditionally non partisan GAB just recently?"

Really?

ken in sc said...

Ed, I understand California produces a lot of dairy these days. Maybe there is some connection.

sorepaw said...
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frank said...

MadisonMan said...
I will probably sign a recall petition if someone comes to my door asking me to. Why? Because I always sign anything to get it on a ballot.

Great!! Publish your name and address. I've got a ballot initiative to allow me to marry Betsy, my only true love [till death do us part]. I hate discrimination, our county clerk refuses to accept Betsy's paw print [she's a beagle ethnicly] on a marriage license.

Milwaukee said...

Ann! Ann! Chris called me a name. Thanks to reading this blog I now know what an ad hominem attack is.

As for " Chris said...
I'm curious to see what the cost would be for lighting on the Madison bike path. We have an extraordinarily high amount of bike traffic (and riders) in this city, and putting lighting on the path makes an awful lot of sense, especially in Madison."


Good point. Remember that bike paths are narrow. It doesn't take very many bicyclist to crowd a bike path. What does "extraordinarily high amounts of bike traffic" even mean? A traffic intersection usually requires several fatalities in a given amount of time, or a certain level of traffic, to justify re-designing the intersection to avoid future accidents. I'm sure somewhere some traffic engineering office or city planning group has guidelines on the level of bicycling traffic which justifies the expense of lighting the path. The argument continues of 'why this part, and not that part'. City leaders must make a decision about the overall budget. Are bike path lights more important than sanitation and storm sewers? Are separate paths needed for pedestrians and cyclist?

While I laud those cyclist, I am also aware that bicycling in inclement weather is an act of passion and not sanity.

Yes, there are plenty of leftist-hate America people out there. Have you never heard of “Cloward-Piven Strategy”? Avowed leftist exist and are working hard to destroy (or "transform") our current system.

Wake Up said...

Bottom line is that they all need to work together. By his attack on public workers he only created a false sense to all Wisconsinites. I am a private sector employee but I do know first hand when it comes to public sector positions and I invite you to do the same. I was offered a state job last year and the starting pay was $12.86 per hour and moved up to 13.63 after 90 days. I do the same job in the private side and the starting pay is 18.00 and a max pay of 23.50. I could not take it because of the difference in pay. My company that I work for also matches the first 3% of my 401K. But many large companies have cut back on there benefits which is not the public employees fault.

Then I see everyone blaming the teachers and saying they make to much money. Look at the education they are required to have and maintain to keep their position. I don’t think that starting at $28000 is out of line and then the average teacher in the state makes $61000. In the private sector the person with that type of education would start around $60000 fresh out of school.