October 12, 2011

"Frank Kameny was our Rosa Parks, and more."

RIP.
Franklin E. Kameny, who transformed his 1957 arrest as a “sex pervert” and his subsequent firing from the Army Map Service into a powerful animating spark of the gay rights movement, died on Tuesday at his home in Washington. He was 86....

Rather than accept his firing quietly, Mr. Kameny sued the government in federal court. That he lost was almost beside the point. The battle against discrimination now had a face, a name and a Ph.D. from Harvard.

73 comments:

Fred4Pres said...

He fought for his rights. RIP.

I am not sure that makes him Rosa Parks. Did he out himself and then get fired (that would be a heroic act) or did he sue after he was inadvertently outed (and fired).

Moose said...

Really? He was forced to ride in the back of bus due to the color of his skin? Who knew...

Fred4Pres said...

Moose, he lost his job because he was homosexual (whether you consider it an orientation or a behavior). Arguably the impact of that (and being labled a sex pervert) is at least as bad as being forced to ride in the back of a bus.

AJ Lynch said...

The gay rights hustlers are as bad as Rev. Sharpton. Please get over yourselves.

chickenlittle said...

RIP

Maybe the USPS can put him on a stamp too: link.

"Most of my heros don't appear on no stamp"
~ Chuck D

Fred4Pres said...

AJ Lynch, no doubts there are hustlers in the gay rights crowd, but people have the right to petition the government for greivances...even homosexuals.


Maybe one day even tea partiers will be treated fairly.

Moose said...

Sorry - he lost a job because he made a point of the fact he was gay.

Rosa Parks did not make a point of displaying she was black. She couldn't escape it.

That's true tragedy. This is "me-too".

AJ Lynch said...

Fred- I am not blaming Kameny. I am criticizing the people who say he was a hero of some sort.

Gabriel Hanna said...

In other words, doesn't matter how good you are with maps, if you're gay the Army does not need you.

No matter how well you fix a truck. No matter how good a sniper, no matter how skilled at Arabic, no matter how effectively you pilot a helicopter or stop a bullet, if you are gay the Amry does not need you.

That was DADT. It is good that it is gone.

AJ Lynch said...

Yeah Hanna, I know you think it's an outrage when the military treats gays like the NYT & most universities treat conservatives.

Crunchy Frog said...

Right, Gabriel. All of those Arabic translators all just happened to be gay. None of them decided, once they got to the middle east, that they had a crappy detail, had only joined for the free linguistics lessons, and wanted an easy way out while still getting an honorable discharge.

Nope, not a one. All gay. I wonder what wouls have happened had they been forced to prove it.

Salamandyr said...

That was DADT. It is good that it is gone.

No, that was not DADT. That was the UCMJ. Please get it right. DADT was the compromise that allowed gays to serve as long as they kept it on the down low.

And yes, I'm glad it's gone too.

Fred4Pres said...

AJ Lynch, good point!

Personally I am of the Goldwater, all they have to do is shoot straight position on this sort of thing in the military. But AJ what you said about academia is absolutely true.

Chuck66 said...

Not saying this is good or bad, but the gay-rights crowd has the best PR ever. In 54 years, then went from a behavior being illegal and repulsive, to making it illegal to oppose their full agenda.

When was the last time you saw a network TV show that didn't have a gay character or homosexual couple? When was the last time you watched a program that had an orthedox Christian portrayed in a positive way?

AJ Lynch said...

OT somewhat. I was doing a crossword today and the question was "Sappho's birthplace?" and the answer was lesbos! I never knew there was a place called Lesbos- I just thought lesbos was a nickname for lesbians.

jimbino said...

I wonder if Ann would support a Constitutional Amendment to prohibit not only the distinctions, but the words:

gay/straight
male/female
married/single

from all the laws of the land, just as we have apparently done with tall/short, skinny/fat and black/white/brown/red/yellow. By that means we could put an end to these endless controversies and discriminations.

chickenlittle said...

When was the last time you watched a program that had an orthedox Christian portrayed in a positive way?

Father Mulcahy on M*A*S*H?

edutcher said...

A household name nobody ever heard of.

AJ Lynch said...

The gay rights hustlers are as bad as Rev. Sharpton.

Worse. They're the most vicious Alinskyites around and, in a lot of cases, the most disgusting deviants imaginable.

And their "movement" is based mostly on lies.

Which is why it will eventually fail.

Chuck66 said...

Not saying this is good or bad, but the gay-rights crowd has the best PR ever. In 54 years, then went from a behavior being illegal and repulsive, to making it illegal to oppose their full agenda.

That's not PR, it's propaganda. And most Americans still find it pretty repulsive, that's why they have to go through the appellate courts or have somebody like Andy Cuomo buy enough legislators to get their way.

It's not illegal to oppose them - yet, but they'll hit you with the Full Court Alinsky if you do.

If they started voting Republican tomorrow, it would all change.

Freder Frederson said...

When was the last time you watched a program that had an orthedox Christian portrayed in a positive way?

My Big Fat Greek Wedding. I bet you don't even know what an Orthodox Christian is--you probably think Baptists are Orthodox.

Freder Frederson said...

If they started voting Republican tomorrow, it would all change.

With so many Republicans agreeing with your abhorrent point of view, that is fortunately not going to happen in the near future (except for morons like Palladian, who can somehow reconcile the widespread and deepseated hatred of gays in the Republican party with their economic perspective)

Chuck66 said...

Freder...perhaps I shouldn't have capitalized "orthodox". I meant a traditional Christian. Goes to church most every Sunday. Is pro-life. May tolerate the gay crowd, but is very much against changing the definition of marriage. Volunteers at the soup kitchens, homeless shelters, Big Brothers/Sisters, Boy Scouts.

I know tons of people like that, but can't think of one character on TV who fits this.

edutcher said...

Freder Frederson said...

If they started voting Republican tomorrow, it would all change.

With so many Republicans agreeing with your abhorrent point of view, that is fortunately not going to happen in the near future (except for morons like Palladian, who can somehow reconcile the widespread and deepseated hatred of gays in the Republican party with their economic perspective)


The only thing abhorrent in Freder's eyes is that I'm attacking a now-sacrosanct Democrat constituency.

But Freder undoubtedly thought the vicious racist AND sexist attacks on Condi Rice were just oh, so funny, as he just as assuredly loved what was said about Clarence Thomas and, I'm willing to bet, we can find old comments of his referring to Sarah Palin as Caribou Barbie.

A real crusader for rights, there.

dbp said...

He didn't get fired for being gay. He got fired for getting picked-up by the police in a sweep of a gay "cruising" area.

Given that it was 1957, a straight guy probably would have been fired for being picked up by the police at a swinger venue.

Freder Frederson said...

But Freder undoubtedly thought the vicious racist AND sexist attacks on Condi Rice were just oh, so funny, as he just as assuredly loved what was said about Clarence Thomas and, I'm willing to bet, we can find old comments of his referring to Sarah Palin as Caribou Barbie.

Provide examples of the attacks on Rice (and even if you can find any, they will not be nearly as vicious as the attacks on Michelle Obama).

What are you referring to with comments.

As for the Palin comments--wanna bet? You won't be able to find a single one (on this or any other blog) where I refer to her as "Caribou Barbie" or anything even close. That is a cheap insult, and I don't go for that.

Titus said...

I never even heard of him.

I can't stand other gays.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Chuch66: When was the last time you saw a network TV show that didn't have a gay character or homosexual couple?

Hmmm... well on network TV I really only watch Modern Family, Happy Endings, and sometimes Hell's Kitchen.

When was the last time you watched a program that had an orthedox Christian portrayed in a positive way?

Peggy Olson on Mad Men. She's my favorite character on the show!

And there's Veggie Tales, although they've gone kind of secular to reach a wider audience.

Also you sometimes see gay people come out to their very religious parents whom, it turns out, still love them very much. But that's usually on a gay reality show nobody watches.

Freder Frederson said...

I meant a traditional Christian. Goes to church most every Sunday. Is pro-life. May tolerate the gay crowd, but is very much against changing the definition of marriage.

Why does a "traditional Christian" have to only "tolerate the gay crowd", be pro-life or against the changing of marriage. Many "mainline" (note the quotes, that is not my characterization), e.g., United Church of Christ, Episcopal Church, PCMA (my denomination), EVLA, have no problem welcoming (not just "tolerating") gays and do not necessarily endorse the other positions you seem to define "traditional Christian". Even the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches have a much more charitable attitude towards gays than you appear to have.

Craig said...

Really? He was forced to ride in the back of bus due to the color of his skin? Who knew...

Something tells me you wouldn't have done too well on the old SAT analogies section.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Chuch66: I meant a traditional Christian. Goes to church most every Sunday. Is pro-life. May tolerate the gay crowd, but is very much against changing the definition of marriage.

I know gay people like this!

Fred4Pres said...

AJ Lynch: Lesbos.

edutcher said...

Freder Frederson said...

But Freder undoubtedly thought the vicious racist AND sexist attacks on Condi Rice were just oh, so funny, as he just as assuredly loved what was said about Clarence Thomas and, I'm willing to bet, we can find old comments of his referring to Sarah Palin as Caribou Barbie.

Provide examples of the attacks on Rice (and even if you can find any, they will not be nearly as vicious as the attacks on Michelle Obama).


So glad he said that.

Let's see...

There's Harry Belfonte calling her a "house slave" and some other Lefty calling her "Bush's pet Negro".

And let's not forget all those cartoons by some of the Left's most distinguished artists.

What are you referring to with comments.

As for the Palin comments--wanna bet? You won't be able to find a single one (on this or any other blog) where I refer to her as "Caribou Barbie" or anything even close. That is a cheap insult, and I don't go for that.


Freder's stock and trade has been cheap shots at any Republicans and Conservatives when it suits him - just look at his response to my original comment.

Freder knows as well as I that kind of search capability isn't here. But consider the comments he's made.

Revenant said...

Goes to church most every Sunday. Is pro-life. May tolerate the gay crowd, but is very much against changing the definition of marriage. Volunteers at the soup kitchens, homeless shelters, Big Brothers/Sisters, Boy Scouts.

The obvious answer to your question is that we have no knowledge of what 99% of the characters on television think about gay marriage or abortion, or how they spend their Sunday mornings, or what kind of volunteer work they do.

People like you see that sort of thing and think "they aren't flaunting their religious beliefs and rubbing our noses in them, so they can't be Real Christians". Normal people see that sort of thing and don't spare a moment's thought wondering about what church the characters go to, because they don't turn on the television for religious self-affirmation. They turn on the television for entertainment.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Not sure if this counts, because they're animated, but the Simpsons are regular church-goers. Are they positively portrayed? Kind of?

The Family Guy and American Dad families appear to be regular church-goers as well (probably not positively portrayed, though). Oddly enough, the animated serieses seem to be almost the only places you see married couple with kids style families on tv of late.

- Lyssa

chickenlittle said...

Are there any portrayals of hard core atheists on TV...someone like revenant? :)

chickenlittle said...

I guess "Dexter" comes pretty close to being a hardcore atheist, if you caught the episode two weeks ago.

sorepaw said...
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sorepaw said...
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sorepaw said...
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AJ Lynch said...

Sorepaw:

I have a feeling Kameny was fired because his activities were viewed as a national security risk back then. In fact, it seems Hollywood has used & still uses that angle [promiscuous govt bigwig] in many spy thriller movies.

Jason (the commenter) said...

AJ Lynch: I have a feeling Kameny was fired because his activities were viewed as a national security risk back then

There were a lot more excuses back then. The gay rights movement has stripped off all of them.

Revenant said...

Are there any portrayals of hard core atheists on TV

Negative portrayals include the aforementioned Dexter and House.

Positive portrayals include Captain Reynolds from Firefly, Admiral Adama from Battlestar Galactica, and the title character of "Bones" (or so I hear).

The most realistic portrayal of a teenaged atheist was Lindsay Weir in "Freaks and Geeks". Her friend Millie was also a good portrayal of a devout Christian, although her failure to give any speeches about gay marriage or abortion presumably relegates her to "non-orthodox" status. :)

Luke Lea said...

Keep in mind Ann's son is gay. She is not exactly a disinterested observer. There are many issues here. Only time will tell whether we are on the right track.

SunnyJ said...

For the life of me I cannot understand how the size of his certificate (the XLL Harvard) matters in this discussion. So what if he graduated from Harvard? Why does that lend any credance to his cause? The Ivy League schools of Business and Law should be investigated for fraud for graduating 90% of the ethics challenged people that have ruined this country and convinced citizens that corruption is capitalism.

sorepaw said...
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Mark B said...

"Franklin E. Kameny, who transformed his 1957 arrest as a “sex pervert” and his subsequent firing from the Army Map Service into a powerful animating spark of the gay rights movement. . ."

On its face, this purple prose is propaganda bullshit.

Never heard of the dude. By the way, I was born with a big butt. Completely natural. should I be proud of it? Maybe i should turn this natural feature into a powerful animating spark of the big butt movement.

Of course, this hero was a member of the famed "Army Map Service." That makes his perversion completely acceptable, and beyond reproach.

sorepaw said...
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Revenant said...

So what if he graduated from Harvard? Why does that lend any credance to his cause?

Because the same society that embraced the ignorant and unfounded belief that homosexuality was a perverse form of mental illness also embraced the ignorant and unfounded belief that Harvard graduates were the moral and intellectual elite of America.

Martin Luther King's status as a minister gave him a similar advantage during the civil rights movement.

Methadras said...

So if you are a homosexual, have a PhD and are from Harvard, why you just earned street cred.

Revenant said...

On its face, this purple prose is propaganda bullshit. Never heard of the dude.

"Significant" and "widely known" are not synonyms. I doubt one American in twenty could tell you who Lonnie Smith or Oliver Brown were, for example.

miller said...

Boy I sure hope we can stop this idea that gay people should be able to have the same rights as real Americans.

Because I can't imagine how bad things will become.

Imagine! We might have to learn to let people decide for themselves what they want to do with their lives and how they define themselves.

Shudder.

AJ Lynch said...

Lonnie Smith was an outfielder who played for the Phillies known for tripping over the bases. He went on to play for the Cards and the Braves [?] where he won like 3 World Series rings.

Mark B said...

@ Revenant -- "Significant" and "widely known" are not synonyms. I doubt one American in twenty could tell you who Lonnie Smith or Oliver Brown were, for example.

The significance of this hero of the Army Map Service, such as it is, appears to be in the imagination of the faithful. A powerful, sparky imagination it is.

Skyler said...

You say "and a PhD from Harvard" as though this should in some way be a positive thing!

More and more I am less and less impressed by anything to do with Harvard.

Revenant said...

The significance of this hero of the Army Map Service, such as it is, appears to be in the imagination of the faithful.

Your need for him to be insignificant exceeds my interest in convincing you he wasn't.

chickenlittle said...

More and more I am less and less impressed by anything to do with Harvard.

You might enjoy this little story about a Nobel prize winning chemist who go shafted by Harvard: Link.

They've since made amends...sort of.

beast said...

1957 the era of Blunt,MacLean,Burgess,and Philby.And he worked in an agency which received extremely highly classified photo intelligence.And he got picked up in a sweep by the police.Gay or not he became one massive security risk.

Paddy O said...

"Positive portrayals include Captain Reynolds from Firefly"

And Shepherd Book was a positive portrayal of what seemed to be an orthodox Christian. The only Christian or even religious man I can remember in a sci fi show.

That show had a very interesting religious subplot going on. Would have been very interesting to see how they developed it.

Revenant said...

The only Christian or even religious man I can remember in a sci fi show.

There were lots of devoutly religious people in Battlestar Galactica (the new series, that is). Not Christians, obviously.

Revenant said...

Gay or not he became one massive security risk.

How? Once he was outed, the possibility of Soviet blackmail ceased to apply.

Kind of like how nobody would dream of blackmailing Charlie Sheen over his drug use and hookers.

Palladian said...

"More and more I am less and less impressed by anything to do with Harvard."

Me too. Yale is where it's at. And the boys are hotter, to boot.

Palladian said...

I first heard about Frank Kameny from an old book called "The Gay Militants" that I bought in a second-hand book store in my rural home town about 20 years ago.

Thanks, Frank.

Palladian said...

"Gay or not he became one massive security risk."

Just like the brilliant Alan Turing, who helped us win the war against Nazi Germany, but who, because he committed the horrible act of having consensual sex with another man, was forced to choose between imprisonment and chemical castration. He chose the latter and eventually offed himself with a poisoned apple.

"Security risk", eliminated!

Good luck passing Blogger's implementation of a Turing test, otherwise known as "word verification", as you post a comment about the evil homosexuals and the security risk they pose to pussy-preferring men around the world!

beast said...

Sorry folks but as simple a transaction as pilfering pens and office supplies would get a CIA clerical employee fired.In 1980 my father served as investigator for a board which yanked the security clearances and terminated the careers of two young missile officers over a barroom brawl.Which the two twenty three year olds had not initiated.And today we have Bradley Manning.
When dealing with that type of classified materials NO indiscretions are allowed.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Positive portrayals [of atheists] include Captain Reynolds from Firefly, Admiral Adama from Battlestar Galactica, and the title character of "Bones" (or so I hear).

On Bones, agent Booth (Bones' FBI partner) would also be a positively portrayed Christian.

Brian, the dog from Family Guy, would probably make another good example of a negatively portrayed (he's sort of insufferable about it, and he's a drunk) atheist.

MadisonMan said...

Dr. Gregory House on the show of the same name is an atheist. He is also frequently portrayed as mocking religious belief.

House mocks just about everything and everyone, at least as near as I can tell (I've watched twice)

Skyler said...

"House mocks just about everything and everyone, at least as near as I can tell (I've watched twice)"

And it seems to me that his mocking of religion is merely a vehicle to promote it. You're not supposed to like House, he's a borderline sociopath, and certainly a misanthrope. In the shows where he is openly mocking religion there is usually an end scene or character that exposes great doubt on House's certainty, whether he realizes it or not.

A particularly moving example is when he tries to save a pregnant woman by giving some sort of operation to the fetus. He is disdainful of the woman's regard for the fetus but during the operation the child grabs his finger and holds it.

You and I know that holding a finger is just a reflex for infants, but the scene is put together brilliantly to show his face suddenly expressing understanding.

House is a very intelligent show, in its early years anyway. Later seasons he just devolved into complete nihilism and it became much less enjoyable.

The Crack Emcee said...

Anybody (else) notice you never, or rarely, hear black people claiming someone is their version of another culture ("So-and-so was our Harvey Milk")? Only black regularly endure this type of appropriation. "He was our Martin Luther King" or whatnot. Like my disgust at the over-use of the cult term, "soulmate," I wish people would learn how to speak from their own experience. There was only one Rosa Parks.

Whatever this guy was, she wasn't it.

Roger J. said...

Re Ms Rice. Freder asks for evidence; Edutcher provides it; Freder slinks from the scene like the fool he is.

In addition to a fool, Freder, you are a coward--the appropriate response from a decent human being is, I was wrong.

Roger J. said...

As for Mr Kameny: RIP

Revenant said...

Only black regularly endure this type of appropriation.

Would you like a few thousand examples of blacks comparing themselves to Biblical Jews?

The Crack Emcee said...

Revenant,

Would you like a few thousand examples of blacks comparing themselves to Biblical Jews?

Only if those Jews were/are also part of our civil rights debacle.

Revenant said...

Only if those Jews were/are also part of our civil rights debacle.

I was thinking of, e.g., Martin Luther King comparing himself to Moses. I don't think I've ever heard a Jewish friend complain about that, even though King's struggles were relatively trivial compared to what Moses supposedly went through.

It is a metaphor. The common-sensical reaction to Parks being used as a metaphor is "this person is acknowledging that Parks was a famous contributor to a struggle for rights", not "how dare whitey try to horn in on our history". The civil rights movement relied *heavily* on drawing metaphorical parallels to past struggles for freedom, and it is hypocritical to complain about other groups following suit.

The Crack Emcee said...

revenant, sorry bud, but you're wrong.

First of all, we're talking about two different phenomena, but you're obviously going to stick to this biblical thing though it has nothing to do with the point I made.

And second, since when have I been a "how dare whitey try to horn in on our history" kind of guy? ("Our history"?) Why put that on me? You just made that up about me, out of whole cloth, hopefully giving you a glimpse of the problem (I'm not necessarily talking racial here) as I see it. Such nonsense, today, even passes for respectable thinking.

We lack vision, revenant.