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ATF has always been the "cowboy" agency in the Fed system. The director saying "Whoa, horse" is just consistent w/ that fact.
Considering people died in this one, unlike Watergate, it's going to be hard to sell that line.
People are starting to catch on.
It will be interesting to see how the MSM spins this story as we get closer to the election. They have recently commited a couple of random acts of journalism and reported honestly on some topics that were not favorable to Our Savior. We shall see.
"Considering people died in this one, unlike Watergate, it's going to be hard to sell that line."Not to be picky, edutcher, but I think you meant to say, "considering this is a Democrat / Little Black Jesus one, it's going to be really easy for the media to bury it." :-)
I bet he does too, now that one of the measures being contemplated by Holder's DoJ is scrapping the ATF.Just say two words...Scooter Libby.
Oh...and cue R-V and Robert Cook to come in and claim they hadn't heard about this and/or don't understand what all the fuss is about.
While we're at it, someone boot up Garage for a one-sentence red meat quip complete with two exclamation points.
F&F and The Load with Feet that is Eric Holder will be the nail in the coffin for the Obama administration.The timing is just perfect for this to boil over as the election gears up.The MSM will try and bury it, but already there are cracks in the edifice (CBS). There's also now way too many right wing news sources for it to stay buried forever.Obama was a fool to trust Holder. Couldn't Obama see anyone who pushed through the Rich pardon couldn't be trusted buy milk and eggs at the 7-11, much less run Justice?
Tell the Mexican ambassador "to calm down" and to "deal with" their dead 40,000 at the hands of the narco-terrorists. So... who in the State Dept signed off on the export controls on delivering weapons? I wonder if Holder has double checked details of the extradition treaty. It's just a matter of time before Law and Order cook up an episode.Holder lied, and people died. Who will be the Ollie North in this Contra scandal? On the upside, the last time the BATFU wanted to get some budget glory and press attention like their cool older brothers, the Fibbies, they burned down a church and killed several score of women and children.
Electricity is out in Bangalore right now. Happens every day.Dussehra Festival in India yesterday. That is the time when Lord Rama did something important. Lord Rama was some God. He killed a demon. So Indian's celebrate it. They love their folklore This happens 20 days before Devali.
The Obama operatives want the exposure of their tricks calmed down.The undercover operation was not a "mistake" at all. It was carefully designed secret act to create a flood of American assault rifles being purchased from American private gun shops and then showing up arming Drug Lords in Mexico's civil war with the Drug Lords.It was working as planned to ruin the reputation of private gun shop owners so the industry could be outlawed, but some of them happen to tape the ATF officers ordering them to break the laws to help the ATF set this up.That is what Holder and his co-conspirator Barack Obama are scared that people will learn about.If it was only a silly mistake done by amateurs, then this stonewalling and media lies blitz would not be needed at all.
I don't think that's really fair to Cook, Scott. I despise his politics and find his whole rant about bloated plutocrats and Wall Street bankers and behemoth corporations to be a very tiresome shtick, but I at least do him the courtesy of saying he's an equal opportunity basher. I would suspect that if Cook really hasn't heard of F&F except through this blog, that's more of an indictment of the MFM than anything else.I don't give the same weight to R-V and garage. They'll both tell you the program began under Dubya, and we're only complaining because Holder and Obama are black. And, of course, garage will post the internet equivalent of "squirrel!," like a thorazine-sozzled Carol Herman, but not nearly as entertaining.
"sozzled" I like that. Okay, judgement duly reserved.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) Sorry to disappoint you Chris in Ma, but Cookie acted as if it were no big deal, merely the “usual government stupidity.” Cooke has no problem condemning Presidents but s/he can’t condemn the apparatchiki. Cooke went onto say that believing that F&F was an DOMESTIC POLITICAL PLOY, was “tinfoil hat” theory….I guess labeling Bush and Obama “War Criminals” is not.
Christopher in MA said..."Considering people died in this one, unlike Watergate, it's going to be hard to sell that line."Not to be picky, edutcher, but I think you meant to say, "considering this is a Democrat / Little Black Jesus one, it's going to be really easy for the media to bury it." :-)I was thinking in terms of anyone not enthralled by the Occupy Wall Street hijinks.
Like I said last night, if "Fast and Furious" were a movie, it'd be like Watergate meets the Tuskegee Experiement.
First of all, Fast and Furious is a lame name. It sounds like a cheap movie from 1987, starring Farrah Fawcett-Majors (pre-Burning Bed).This seems like a slow burn controversy, one that will build with time and consume a lot. Not a fast and furious one that will consume a little.
And a lot of people would like the ATF acting director, and a whole lot of people who work for him, to "go f--- themselves" about Fast and Furious.Sometimes I think the old Japanese system was a good one.
Bwahahahahahaha!!How do these people get in such high level positions? Oh, wait, I see the brown tinge on his nose.
I want a special prosecutor. I'm sick of this shit. I'm fine with it if they go after the former Bush admin officials that may have done something similar too. Screw this crap. This mess needs cleaning. Holder lied? Indictment. Gun laws broken? Indict everyone that knew whenever it happened. People died? Indict for accessory to murder. Anyone who broke the laws of the United States of America should be prosecuted to the fullest and if convicted punished just like I would be if I committed the same crime.I had a list yesterday, Libby, Martha Stewart, Roger Clemens. Here's another one: Sandy Berger got off. You think you wouldn't serve hard time for stealing Top Secret documents from the national archives and destroying them?Enough. It's time this ends.
What's the world coming to if the left can't even be relied on to oppose government corruption and cronie capitalism.Who wants to be the next Woodward?I guess nobody in the young cadre of reporters, who apparently want to be sure and get invited to the next White House BBQ.
Oh, wait, I see the brown tinge on his nose.Racist.
Joe - point taken, and in fact, I do remember Cook waving away F&F like that. But I will say (and I can't believe I'm actually defending him) that, to the ordinary person, the idea that the whole F&F scheme was a backdoor way to curtail or eliminate Second Amendment rights does sound like a bad Tom Clancy novel. Even people outraged at this have a hard time wrapping their heads around the fact that:A - the government could activate so staggeringly idiotic a plan, and,B - that THIS gang of stumblebums thought that they could brag "we're doing gun control under the radar," hassle gun shop owners, basically undermine the Mexican government and NOT have it blow up in their faces.I'm seconding DaveW. If Scooter Libby got his ass handed to him for essentially nothing, I want hard (as in federal pound-me-in-the-ass-prison) time for the movers behind this, even if it began under Bush. I'm ready for impeachment and sentences of treason for this one.And thanks for raising my blood pressure about Sandy Berger. Bush should have hung that bastard from a lamppost for what he did.
And the acting ATF director was appointed by whom? Who is he seeking to protect?
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) Smurf-House Altards, acting like Wiccascumsatanists, listen to Limbozo and ignore Governor Walker’s aide’s legal problems. Only a bunch of Morman scum focused on Zionist Capitalism would rather talk about Fast & Furious rather the REAL scandal…typical, red meat for the faithful, I guess.
Between Awlaki and Fast and Furious, Obama is racking up American bodies left and right. Only 13 months until his bloody reign comes to a close.
Joe is channeling J, but he errs on the side of coherency.
@DAD,"How do these people get in such high level positions?"Remember: you heard it here first.If the Republicans take the Senate, there will be hearings on exactly how Holder got to be AG. I'm sure it will involve him holding the goods on someone from his Clinton days.The other scandal will involve an investigation into how Holder staffed the second and third level Justice appointees with such left-wing assholes. A search will be launched to see how many of these appointees leached over into the permanent civil service staff.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) Joe is channeling J, but he errs on the side of coherency juguetes de gato di los mormones, sht yr pihole, joto
Cool Graphic.Note that this particular scandal started in 2009. It was under Obama's watch. The idea that giving weapons to Mexican drug gangs is a good idea is rather, extraordinary. Although the word insane fits better ("felony stupid" works too).
Holder Lied, Agents Died. Holder needs to go.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) felony stupidThis.
Christopher in MA,"A - the government could activate so staggeringly idiotic a plan"Obamacare?Oil drilling permits?
Oh, wait, I see the brown tinge on his nose.Racist.Oops, I should have said "smelly fecal matter."
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) A - the government could activate so staggeringly idiotic a plan"Obamacare?Oil drilling permitsThat oil and gas were only needed for a few more years and then green energy and electric cars could take their place?
Will be mentioned during the Presidential Debate?Here's a sample question:President Obama, under your administration, the ATF sold high-powered machine guns to Mexican Drug Lords. Why did you sign off on such a foolish idea?
I'm sure ATF wanted people to calm down after Ruby Ridge and Waco as well.Maybe it's time to disband ATF and place their functions under the Dept. of Justice and the FBI. ATF has been trying to justify their existence for quite some time, with limited success.
What's the philosophy behind combining alcohol, tobacco and firearms law enforcement under a special and separate Federal agency anyway? All have potential for large black\secondary markets? All are traditionally attractive to organized crime? Whatever, it seems like an incongruous mix to me.
It's like they say: "Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms" should be the name of a convenience store chain, not a Federal agency.
From Feb. 25, 2009 "As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons," Holder told reporters. Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.""I think closing the gun show loophole, the banning of cop-killer bullets and I also think that making the assault weapons ban permanent, would be something that would be permitted under Heller," Holder said, referring to the Supreme Court ruling in Washington, D.C. v. Heller, which asserted the Second Amendment as an individual's right to own a weapon.
While we're at it, someone boot up Garage for a one-sentence red meat quip complete with two exclamation points.What about Bush!!!(for real, the ATF appears to have done the same thing under his watch.) See Operation Wide Receiver.
(for real, the ATF appears to have done the same thing under his watch.) See Operation Wide Receiver.Does that make it right? I don't think so. Do you?
Is there any chance Hillary Clinton, as a rep for the State Dept, was also in the loop on this "felony stupid" F&F plan?[Fred gets copyright and T-shirt rights to the phrase "felony stupid"]
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) See Operation Wide ReceiverAnd, correct me if I’m wrong, but I read THOSE folks are under INDICTMENT!
You mean the BushCo policy, of trying to sell guns to the mex. cartel?Yeah Dubya & Co probably don't want that to be known.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) See Operation Wide ReceiverFollowing the discovery that agents in Tucson let the guns "walk," a tactic which has long been against Justice Department policy, the department under Obama decided to bring charges against those who had come under investigation in 2006.To date in Wide Receiver, nine people have been charged with making false statements in acquisition of firearms and illicit transfer, shipment or delivery of firearms. Two of the nine defendants have pleaded guilty and a plea hearing is scheduled for Oct. 13 for two other defendantsI assume that the “nine people” are criminals, not ATF agents…it’s not clear from the story.
The Obama plan to end private gun sales was masked to resemble a Bust Administration small test sending weapons to the border and tracking the chain of custody ending in stopping them at the border.What replaced that idea was this criminal activity of massive gun running into Mexico with no tracking and no stopping anything at the border.See, see, it's all the same thing. Garage says so.Garage loves the smell of plausible deniability in the morning.
It's because of boondoggle agencies like the ATF that the Bureau of Propane, Aluminum and Saddle Soap goes underfunded every year!
Does that make it right? I don't think so. Do you?You're the king of equivalencies. That one was just for you. So....what next?
(for real, the ATF appears to have done the same thing under his watch.) See Operation Wide Receiver.All the more reason to do away with it.Don't forget, I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act, RICO, the section of the Animal Welfare Act that requires a permit for bear wrestling (What if a bear attacks you in the woods? You won't have time to get a permit.) and several other federal laws.
"You mean the BushCo policy, of trying to sell guns to the mex. cartel? Yeah Dubya & Co probably don't want that to be known."If it was "BushCo policy" - which I frankly, wouldn't trust you on - then they are just as culpable as Holder & Co and need to hang. All of them. I know you might have been expecting some exculpation from us desperately trying to protect W, but I, at least, want guilty people punished.
You're the king of equivalencies.Hardly. However, if you're suggesting that Holder should get jail time a la Scooter Libby, I agree. He probably won't do a day regardless of any judgement against him...unless, of course, the RMS Titanic administration decides he makes a good scapegoat. Who knows? Amongst all the politics, there may ACTUALLY be some wrongdoing.
Joejoe Puerco, Nixon-AynRand fan, you're completely confused about economics and politics, not to say a corrupt POS. Obviously that's a bit much for ya, so mumble away--no worse or better than your usual drivel.
However, if you're suggesting that Holder should get jail time a la Scooter Libby, I agree.So Holder should go to jail for the same thing Libby was found guilty of, without a trial or even a hearing? I think you're a little too excited about this Fast & Furious thingy.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew) so mumble away--no worse or better than your usual drivelA phrase tugs at my memory, something about a Pot and a Kettle, I believe….So quoting a Seattle Newspaper is mumbling, eh? Who knew, or are you P!ssed I made a coherent phrase in Spanish, or is “Joto” a trademarked word? BTW, anyone found the desire to comment on your blog, after the ONE COMMENT I MADE? Also, Machos and the rest of us are still a little hazy on the tenets and axioms of Zionist Capitalism? Is that Jewish Capitalism OR is it the economics of selling Jews? You see, I’m a little confused, but help me out, won’t you?
Not exactly, Joe-pig--you're a neo-con, and apologist for finance capitalism, and globalism. Not to say pro-AIPAC, and pro-war. Sort of like the Wolfowitz of Althouse. Res Ispa Loquitur.
The other scandal will involve an investigation into how Holder staffed the second and third level Justice appointees with such left-wing assholes. A search will be launched to see how many of these appointees leached over into the permanent civil service staff.I don't think that is quite right - political appointees are invariably political, and this case left-wing extremists. Rather, what seems to have happened is that a left-wing litmus test was used in the hiring of the permanent civil service attorneys, so that the staff would remain hard core leftist after the Obamaites left, either in 2013 or 2017. It probably wasn't done through interviews, but rather, by looking at what was on their resumes and applications. Federalist Society? No. Environmental Defense Fund? Yes. That sort of thing. Apparently, using this sort of metric, when reviewing the resumes of the hired attorneys, the bias is blatant - something like 19-0 member of left wing organizations.
""The practice of “letting guns walk” to trace their sales was also used in the Bush administration, federal officials tells the AP. The ATF began what became known as Operation Wide Receiver in 2006, after receiving information about a suspicious purchase of firearms. The investigation involved letting the guns “walk,” and the investigation concluded in 2007 without any charges being filed.""Whooop. St. Issa seems to overlooked some fact (as usual). But..it is the AP--might be lib-ralls involved.
So Holder should go to jail for the same thing Libby was found guilty of, without a trial or even a hearing?Please show where I said that GM.
See Operation Wide Receiver.Except that those weapons didn't cross the border with Mexico, which is a small, but critical difference here. The weapons were followed, and arrests made. Contrast this with Fast and Furious, where the weapons were not followed, agents ordered not to arrest anyone, and no provision was made to trace them or arrest the trafficers. Rather, DoJ apparently even bought guns (with government money) to sell to the cartels. Wide Receiver was very different, esp. in how it was implemented, and anyone who trots it out is trying to change the subject from how badly the Holder Justice Department has botched this program. (And, yes, if any of those Wide Receiver guns were used to kill anyone, those who allowed such should be culpable, as should the Holder people).
One problem with shutting down ATF right now is that there is a suspicion that it would be used as an excuse to eliminate the paper trail that leads to the top of at least the Justice Department, and possibly also the Departments of State and Homeland Security. That said, it still might be for the best. I am sitting right now maybe 80 miles from Ruby Ridge, and have been that close to Waco too. Either of them should have resulted in the agency being shut down.
Garage and the capón conveniently ignore that under Operation Wide Receiver, the guns were actually, you know tracked, and the straw buyers were apprehended before the guns could make it into Mexico.
garage mahal wrote: "I think you're a little too excited about this Fast & Furious thingy."lol. You wish, right?After his role in the Marc David Rich pardon, Holder should have been effectively barred from public office. Any decent person would certainly not have thought to nominate him for AG.And now we see why that should have been obvious to all.
It's the Jewish Mormons, Joe.Get your scapegoats correct.
without a trial or even a hearing?Juat like Anwar al-Awlaki.
If Bush jumped off a cliff, would you follow him? Apparently Eric Holder would? That is the defense to this, that the Bush Administration may have done it too? Even if that were true, was it on the same scale. Who made the decision to do something that on its face seems like a terrible idea? Did Eric Holder approve it. And to paraphrase my guy: What did the President know and when did he know it?
"Sixty Grit" : The jug earred half-black Jesus, above all others, must be protected from this story, which, I am sure, is just a parable about how some Mexicans were able to get guns in return for gold from space aliens, or somethingVirurently racist--looks like another brainfart from Byro the tee-shirt klansman(and bookmarked AA)
An excellent point Bruce: See Operation Wide Receiver.Except that those weapons didn't cross the border with Mexico, which is a small, but critical difference here. The weapons were followed, and arrests madeHolder lied. Agents died. If no one cares, then why is the WH and its cronies all hot on burying Fast & Furious/Gunwalker?
They were buying weapons in the US for $500 and selling them in Mexico for $3-4,000. I still want to hear more about where the money went.
we'll see klansters and neo-cons(garag--this site should be known as the racist-rightwing site it is)
The self-parody known as garage blames...wait for it... Bush!
Like this: “Rearranging the chairs on the deck won’t make Fast and Furious go away,” Grassley said. “There is a lot of effort at the Justice Department to spin the fact that the Attorney General was less than candid before the House Judiciary Committee, and what better way to make that go away than a bureaucratic shuffle.”wv: wookee - not really relevant, but cute.
(garag--this site should be known as the racist-rightwing site it is)J - I can't remember garage ever claiming any association with you or supporting any of your statements, you left-wing, self-righteous, bigoted, ignorant, word mangling, psychopathic, anti-social, truly disturbed, low-life, scum sucking, son of a catfish.Nothin' personal, mind ya.
Maybe it's time to disband ATF and place their functions under the Dept. of Justice and the FBI.Absolutely.Long overdue.But not until Eric Holder and several underlings have gone on trial.
The unit known as Garage is evidently programmed to place various words and phrases into this sentence frame:"I think you're a little too excited about this ___ thingy."The recent insertion of "Fast & Furious" into the frame is no more a sign of intelligence than the insertion of other phrases was in the past.
That said, it still might be for the best. I am sitting right now maybe 80 miles from Ruby Ridge, Piece of trivia here - Ruby Ridge is 20-30 miles north by north west of Sandpoint, Idaho, which was the birthplace of Sarah Louise Heath (later Palin).
Eric Holder had five memos on Fast & Furious prior to the date he claims he first learned about it (in sworn statement to Congress). Oppsie!
Bruce Hayden said..."Apparently, using this sort of metric, when reviewing the resumes of the hired attorneys, the bias is blatant - something like 19-0 member of left wing organizations."Bruce, you should spend more time at PajamasMedia, which broke the leftwing hiring bias at DOJ. They had to get a court order to make Holder give up the resumes and have been analyzing them one section at time. The count so far is:hard leftists - 116moderates - 0non-ideological - 0conservatives - 0And both Ashcroft and Gonzolaes were hounded mercilessly by the media for just the appearance of some preference for Christian and conservative hires, yet they have not even yet reported on this at all by the same "unbiased" "objective" "non-partisan" media.
Libs doesn't answer how Bush's ATF stopping the guns at the border equates with O's ATF letting 100's if not 1,000's, going into Mexico, with a few bouncing back to kill at least 2 Americans, and probably more.
garage mahal said... So Holder should go to jail for the same thing Libby was found guilty of, without a trial or even a hearing? I think you're a little too excited about this Fast & Furious thingy.That was a really stupid statement. Do you think that whatever Libby did equates with whatever Holder did? Did anybody die because of what Libby did?
At least one border agent is dead, and hundreds of Mexicans are dead = thingy.
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