October 17, 2011

About those Guy Fawkes — V for Vendetta — masks.

I've paid some attention to them in my photographs from Wisconsin protests — here and here — and I see Instapundit is featuring a picture from the Occupy Wall Street affair. So what does it mean when the protesters of today wear that mask? Is it a sign of some nefarious terrorist element? (I've read the plot summary of "V for Vendetta.") Or is it just the generic disguise these days, like those dumb "Scream" masks a few years ago or the sheet-with-eye-holes ghost costume from back in the days when kids made their own costumes?

I'm thinking it's the generic disguise. Today, I went to my Amazon Associates page and here's the collection of things Amazon thinks I might want to link to:



I poke around a bit and see that the V for Vendetta Mask is the #1 item on Amazon's Best Sellers in Novelty & Special Use Clothing. It's beating out the Where's Waldo, the Harry Potter, and the Full Body Spandex Suit.

88 comments:

The Pagan Temple said...

Its not just a generic disguise, leftists seem to have a thing for V For Vendetta. This isn't the first time that mask has popped up in the context of a leftist rally or issue. It's actually fairly commonplace to them. It hasn't been that long ago since I saw this, but I'm having trouble remembering what it was in relation to.

Maguro said...

Well, V in the movie is supposedly an anarchist revolutionary, so this seems like a bit of play-acting from wannabe anarchist revolutionaries.

Triangle Man said...

It is related to the "Anonymous" group and was notably used in prostests against Scientology early on. Essentially what you are looking at is protest nerds who follow 4chan or Reddit.

Triangle Man said...

play-acting from wannabe anarchist revolutionaries

Or people who *really* like Natalie Portman.

franglo said...

It's ironic that the Tea Party and conservative new media like Breitbart are going after the OWS with such petty intensity-- blocking out any attempt to perceive common ground-- to make sure the movement is treated the same way the Tea Party was treated by the media... Hey, if OWS follows the same trajectory as the Tea Party, I'd be very psyched! Progressives will swamp the House in 2012. Is that what Insta and Breitbart want? Keep it up.

Conservative Libertine said...

I'm sure they think it is 'oh so meaningful' to use a mask from V for Vendetta that supposedly has something to do with the story about the Guy who tried to bomb parliament, but just like their cause, they aren't quite sure why.

Triangle Man said...

Here is a video from the Anonymous Scientology protests in London in 2008.

Scott M said...

V For Vendetta was just final proof that the W-Brothers (creators of the Matrix trilogy, in which every single bad guy is white and all the good guys were an eclectic mix of multiculti crap) were just more of the same bullshit. V has every ridiculous right-wing stereotype villain you can imagine. While I certainly appreciate Hugo Wallace's acting regardless of what he's doing (say...aren't Elves the biggest racists in Middle Earth?), the movie was pablum.

And not good pablum at that.

Jason said...

I saw it a lot at Tea Party events, too. In the movie, it's not so much that V was an anarchist, but was anti-statist. He was striking a blow against a totalitarian police state.

The lefties, as usual, miss the mark.

Side note... Beethoven's 5th was the leitmotif throughout the whole move. It was also used during WWII as the sign on for Allied broadcasts into Nazi-occupied Europe.

The very first phrase... repeated throughout the symphony, is equivalent to the Morse code for the letter "V."

...-

Victory.

Ann Althouse said...

It is such a generic costume at this point that I'm saying you might as well wear a Scream mask or a Where's Waldo.

Scott M said...

It is such a generic costume at this point that I'm saying you might as well wear a Scream mask or a Where's Waldo.

I'm not sure that's true. V was an overtly political movie with a definite message.

Jay said...

Yes, and if a bunch of Tea Partiers were wearing them the commentary on how they want to blow up Congress would be endless on CNN/MSNBC

t-man said...

Yeah, and about all of those kids with the Che shirts and buttons, that doesn't mean anything either. They might was well be sporting Ralph Lauren polo insignias.

franglo said...

"We are the 99%"
"Banks Got Bailed Out We Got Sold Out"

It's fascinating how hard the righties are trying to turn the friendly, clever critique of our obviously dysfunctional nexus between finance and politics, and the obvious corrosive widening gap between rich and poor, into a stereotype of smelly hippies and dumb, destructive teenagers... it doesn't matter-- we don't need you-- and you'll benefit by the reforms we'll engender anyway. Forgive them father for they know not what they do.

Though I do suggest you actually visit an occupy protest before shooting off your sour, hateful mouths.

franglo said...

I wonder what Drudge would say if the Occupy Wall Street protesters were carrying automatic weapons. You know, like the tea partiers did.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

it doesn't matter-- we don't need you-- and you'll benefit by the reforms we'll engender anyway. Forgive them father for they know not what they do

And we’ll miss you when you’re gone, too…Say what reforms are you going to “engender,” BTW? You all have, purposefully, declined to make demands…so how will reforms occur if we don’t know what to reform and how? Or are consistency and logic simply outmoded patriarchal concepts designed to oppress the “Other?”

Jay said...

It's fascinating how hard the righties are trying to turn the friendly, clever critique of our obviously dysfunctional nexus between finance and politics

It is funny how you are pretending these people aren't screaming fuck the USA and clamoring for a class war.

But you're not that bright and easily misled, so I doubt anyone reading is surprised.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

I wonder what Drudge would say if the Occupy Wall Street protesters were carrying automatic weapons. You know, like the tea partiers did

You mean like the LaRouchites, did..at one TEA Party rally?
You mean exercising their Second AMENDMENT RIGHTS, as well as their FIRST AMENDMENT rights of Assembly and Speech?

Scott M said...

Though I do suggest you actually visit an occupy protest before shooting off your sour, hateful mouths.

I did, Sunday, at "occupy St Louis". The smelly hippies actually got into a fist-fight amongst themselves. Funny how that doesn't fit your narrative. I did stick around long enough to make sure the combatants were actually part of the protest (such that it was) and not some wannabe dirtyhippie beaters.

Jay said...

we don't need you-- and you'll benefit by the reforms we'll engender anyway.

Obama has taken in a whole lot of donations from Wall Street.

You will vote for Obama.

We can see these "reforms" happening any time.

Right?

Idiot.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)



Say Franglo are you one of those smelly hippies and dumb, destructive teenagers? Do you hang out at Occupy (Insert City here) a lot? Is it for the drum circles, the hippie chics, or the vegan pizza?

franglo said...

Hey Joe, why are we putting "words" into "quotation marks" now, and "what" does it "mean"?

OWS is a month old... it's already shifted the conversation to topics that matter... away from the deficit alone (which conservatives only care about when a democrat is president) to the outsized influence the financial sector wields in our economy and the fact that the middle class is dying in this country. And it went global. This is just the beginning. Criticizing it for not having a manifesto-- which, if it existed, you would just constantly villify, no matter what it said-- is a weak dodge.

Timothy Lee said...

Interesting that no one has noticed the clear anti-Catholic aspects of Guy Fawkes masks. The masks were designed and worn as deliberate provacateuring against Catholics and Catholicism. (Guy Fawkes was Catholic.)

As part of the 1/4 quarter of the U.S. population that is Catholic, I find the wearing of the masks just as bigoted as if someone were wearing "black face".

Why would a so called "inclusive" group consent by silence to what is offensive behavior for a large portion of the general population?

Dead Julius said...

You folks don't hang out on 4chan much, do you?

The V mask most certainly means something to those whom it means something to.

franglo said...

Hey Jay-- what about Dodd Frank? You know, the reform of the financial sector that the Tea Party reps and the big business Repubs have banded together to eviscerate before it can be enforced? What about the consumer protection agency and Elizabeth Warren, which Republicans have made public enemy #1 and are trying to kill before it can do anything?

You can't say Obama is in the pocket of wall street, and then also oppose the reform policies at the same time-- it's total psychosis. I think you just oppose any initiative you perceive as emanating from "The Left" -- if you can oppose it from the left and the right at the same time you will.

Jay said...

And it went global. This is just the beginning.

Now that is funny.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

Hey Joe, why are we putting "words" into "quotation marks" now, and "what" does it "mean”?

I’m sorry you graduated US Public Schools recently and so English is a second language…I use “Engender” as a quote from YOU…THE OTHER, or the “Other” is a Post-Modernist phrase, and the quotes are designed to demonstrate that it is used as a term of art….so you don’t go, “the other, WHAT, Joe?” Glad to be of help to a destructive teenager and smelly hippie.

Criticizing it for not having a manifesto-- which, if it existed, you would just constantly villify, no matter what it said-- is a weak dodge

The weaksauce is on your side, Franglo:
1) You talk about “engendering” reforms, BUT
2) You have no reforms to engender….
From which of course follows my question are Logic and Consistency simply outmoded concepts designed to Oppress the Other? Continue on smelly hippie, please explain, without explaining what you hope to accomplish…..

Jay said...

ranglo said...
Hey Jay-- what about Dodd Frank? You know, the reform of the financial sector that the Tea Party reps and the big business Repubs have banded together to eviscerate before it can be enforced?


Dodd-Frank is a horrible piece of legislation.


But the little Amendment Durbin attached received some attention recently.

You do realilze that government isn't the answer to these issues, right?

franglo said...

Hey Joe-- try looking up the verb "engender" in the dictionary. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Otherwise, this discussion amounts to you telling me I smell bad. So I'm done.

Jay said...

You can't say Obama is in the pocket of wall street, and then also oppose the reform policies at the same time--

Um, yes you can.

See, Obama is a happy to take those donations and these reforms don't address any of the issues you pretend to care about.


But again, you're not that bright and easily misled.

Maguro said...

You can't say Obama is in the pocket of wall street, and then also oppose the reform policies at the same time-- it's total psychosis.

The old "Something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done" argument. Priceless.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

Hey Jay-- what about Dodd Frank? You know, the reform of the financial sector that the Tea Party reps and the big business Repubs have banded together to eviscerate before it can be enforced? What about the consumer protection agency and Elizabeth Warren, which Republicans have made public enemy #1 and are trying to kill before it can do anything

Do you mean the “Financial reform” that just cost consumers $60/year, because BofA instituted a charge for Debit cards…a change pushed thru at the behest of Wal-Mart, you mean that complex piece of legislation that burdens smaller institutions making them LESS COMPETITIVE to the larger financial institutions, who now can gobble up their smaller rivals, and have a claim on Federal bail-outs, being “Too Big to Fail”-a quote and term of art and hence the quotations- Do you mean Elizabeth Warren who uttered a load of clap-trap..like drive on roads we paid for (you mean the roads we, to include the factory owner, paid for via gas taxes, and so the more the factory owner uses those roads, the more s/he pays for them) schools we paid for…even though many companies have remedial training because those costly schools don’t produce useful learning…you mean THAT “Elizabeth Warren” right?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

to beget; procreate

So what are you procreating, smelly hippie? Tell me. What do you wish to accomplish? How do we arrive there?

Joe said...

I have not seen "V for Vendetta," but my guess is that most Americans have no idea who Guy Fawkes was. It's probably just trendy.

Ann Althouse said...

"You folks don't hang out on 4chan much, do you? The V mask most certainly means something to those whom it means something to."

The question is whether the kids out there wearing the mask are doing anything more than wearing the popular mask of the day.

You realize that you sound like the fundamentalists who get upset about Halloween. Witches! Devils!

Are you scared or do you yawn? I'm inclined to yawn.

Fen said...

It is such a generic costume at this point that I'm saying you might as well wear a Scream mask or a Where's Waldo.

No. There is is "smiling clown" psychological aspect to it too. Thats why a Scream mask won't work for them. For the liberals, wearing a smile as they bash in storefront windows somehow makes them less barbaric.

And the Left appropriated the V meme when the movie came out. The commenter avatars over at sites like Democrat Underground were peppered with them. Likely they still are.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

Otherwise, this discussion amounts to you telling me I smell bad. So I'm done

There was more to it than that…you simply can’t answer, so instead, you’re done. Evidence and logic seemed to foreign concepts to you, akin to soap and water to smelly hippies. What has another drum circle begun? Someone deliver a phat vegan pizza. Some cute hippie chics need help with their papier mache puppet? Break time over at Jack-in-the-Box, mom need the computer to watch last night’s RHoNJ?

Scott M said...

The question is whether the kids out there wearing the mask are doing anything more than wearing the popular mask of the day.

I thought we were discussing the protestors' use of the mask, not trick-or-treaters.

Fen said...

It's ironic that the Tea Party and conservative new media like Breitbart are going after the OWS with such petty intensity

Hardly. One group wants to be bailed out. The other is tired of paying for bail outs.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)



Franglo didn’t leave did s/he? I mean it wasn’t anything I said was it? I didn’t hurt his/her self-esteem did I? S/he is sticking around to get trophy that ALL Occupy (Insert City Here) Participants get, right? It would be TERRIBLE if s/he stomped off, angry…..

cubanbob said...

franglo said...
"We are the 99%"
"Banks Got Bailed Out We Got Sold Out"

It's fascinating how hard the righties are trying to turn the friendly, clever critique of our obviously dysfunctional nexus between finance and politics, and the obvious corrosive widening gap between rich and poor, into a stereotype of smelly hippies and dumb, destructive teenagers... it doesn't matter-- we don't need you-- and you'll benefit by the reforms we'll engender anyway. Forgive them father for they know not what they do.

Though I do suggest you actually visit an occupy protest before shooting off your sour, hateful mouths.

10/17/11 9:58 AM

You have an EBT card? You got bailed out. They won't work without banks,
You have a checking account? You got bailed out.
You get a paycheck? Try cashing them without banks,you got bailed out.
You have an ATM or debit card? You got bailed out.

The poor are poor because by and large they are mostly morons who always make the wrong choice from dropping out of high school, having kids that they can't feed or house, drugs, alcohol and overall general imbecility. Being born poor is a misfortune of fate. Staying poor as an adult is a self inflicted wound. I work for my benefit and am damn tired of paying taxes to support shiftless parasites, obviously from your comments you being one of them.

In the meantime in your stupid rant about greedy rich people and politics maybe you can explain to us why you support President Goldman Sachs along with all those phony gliteratti rich limousine liberals who happily spend fortunes on accountants and lawyers and lobbyist for tax avoidance?

As for the smelly hippies, fuck 'em and fuck you.

The Pagan Temple said...

Franglo

I wonder what Drudge would say if the Occupy Wall Street protesters were carrying automatic weapons. You know, like the tea partiers did.

I'm guessing that would depend on the death toll. There's a difference between carrying them as a show of support for the 2nd Amendment and what I'm sure you leftist pricks would like to do with them.

The Pagan Temple said...

Franglo

It's fascinating how hard the righties are trying to turn the friendly, clever critique of our obviously dysfunctional nexus between finance and politics, and the obvious corrosive widening gap between rich and poor, into a stereotype of smelly hippies and dumb, destructive teenagers.

Yeah, there's nothing that speaks more to the heart of America than shitting on cop cars and flying Soviet flags.

Youngblood said...

Althouse wrote:

"I'm thinking it's the generic disguise."

Nope.

Back in 2006, an internet meme called "Epic Fail Guy" (a crude stick figure who failed at everything) appeared on the noted internet humor site 4chan.org, the home of the amorphous group Anonymous.

Shortly thereafter, thanks to the popularity of the film adaptation of "V for Vendetta", Epic Fail Guy was increasingly depicted with a Guy Fawkes mask. (The humor is obvious, as the real life Guy Fawkes failed miserably.)

In 2008, some members of Anonymous decided to protest Scientology (Project Chanology). Guy Fawkes masks were still readily available thanks to the popularity of "V for Vendetta", and they'd become closely associated with Anonymous, so they were the obvious choice.

Ever since then, the mask has been associated with Anonymous at protests (both waves of Scientology protests, the BART protests, and now occupy Wall Street). These days, nobody would go to a protest wearing a Guy Fawkes mask as a generic disguise, as its connotations are very well known.

Of course, the irony is lost on those members of Anonymous who wear them to protests; they didn't get the memo that it symbolizes miserable failure.

J said...

No Mr lee--the masks were originally a sort of tribute to Guy Fawkes,catholic...and anarchist. (he intended to blow up Parliament but was caught beforehand...and excuted)... So when you see the cheesy V for Vendetta masks--salud! its in honor of the old English catholic rebels, who fought against WASPs ("norsefire" in the comic IIRC). Vaya con Dios The Guy Fawkes day on the other hand is anti-catholic...

Which is to say the V mask mocks the very existence of white-zionist capitalists like JoeJo Wolfowtiz here--or the scientologists, in London a whileback--, or the blowhard troll salesman for that matter (with numerous names, spewng lies,etc)

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

Yeah, there's nothing that speaks more to the heart of America than shitting on cop cars and flying Soviet flags

It speaks to CERTAIN parts of America….

cubanbob said...

The Pagan Temple said...
Franglo

It's fascinating how hard the righties are trying to turn the friendly, clever critique of our obviously dysfunctional nexus between finance and politics, and the obvious corrosive widening gap between rich and poor, into a stereotype of smelly hippies and dumb, destructive teenagers.

Yeah, there's nothing that speaks more to the heart of America than shitting on cop cars and flying Soviet flags.

10/17/11 10:45 AM

If the republicans had any brains and balls, they would only have to run 60 second clips next October of your examples above with the tag line: vote democrat if you support their ideals. From white house, to town council if you vote for a democrat this is what you are voting for. I see a 49 out of 57 state landslide.

Sofa King said...

I wonder what Drudge would say if the Occupy Wall Street protesters were carrying automatic weapons. You know, like the tea partiers did.


When did that happen? Do you know what an automatic weapon is?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

When did that happen? Do you know what an automatic weapon is

S/he knows that they are evilllll killing tools…just the sort of thing a Rightwing Death Beast would carry, unlike a harmless Giant Papier Mache Puppet, the favourite weapon of the smelly hippie.

edutcher said...

Yes, the Lefties have always been such arrant rebels against conformity.

franglo said...

It's ironic that the Tea Party and conservative new media like Breitbart are going after the OWS with such petty intensity-- blocking out any attempt to perceive common ground

Common ground being defined as the slobs wanting somebody else to pay off their student loans and the tea Partiers wanting to keep more of their own money.

"We are the 99%"
"Banks Got Bailed Out We Got Sold Out"


It's fascinating how hard the righties are trying to turn the friendly, clever critique of our obviously dysfunctional nexus between finance and politics


Yes, anti-Semitism and threats of the Reign of Terror are sooo friendly and clever.

Youngblood said...

Here's a picture of Epic Fail Guy for those who care.

J said...

AA's lil Kissingers, Eduoffski and JoeJoeStein, are back...with their usual meaningless two-bit defamation, defending Bloombergism.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)



Hey I never defend Bloombergism…I think Transfats are fine, I think if you want to fire up a fine stogie in a restaurant it’s OK by me if it’s OK by Management, you want to buy a fire arm, go ahead…I haven’t a clue as to who thinks I defend “Bloombergism.”

Scott M said...

I haven’t a clue as to who thinks I defend “Bloombergism.”

The period goes on the outside, philistine.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

The period goes on the outside, philistine

I think it can go either way….I grew up with the punctuation within the “ ”; IF the punctuation goes with the quoted word…I’m ending the sentence, with the word “Bloombergism” and hence the period goes with Bloombergism and within the quotations.

And watch out who your calling a “Philistine”…sure Silvers was funny, but Sid Caesar was funnier. I’m more Sidistine, than Philistine.

Dead Julius said...

The question is whether the kids out there wearing the mask are doing anything more than wearing the popular mask of the day.

Oh, it's definitely more than wearing the popular mask of the day.

It is an expression of deep visceral hate for the structures of social and political control.

Some young people have that feeling.

And I am happy about that; and happy too that they have a means of expressing it that their peers understand.

The fogies never feel it, tho'.

Are you a fogey, Althouse?

edutcher said...

As always, J's attention span is about half the length of a Looney Tune.

Now he accuses me of supporting Bloomie?

J said...

It's a bit too complex for the likes of you, Edu-witz. Defending Wallstreet, the status quo, financial hegemony, etc--Bloombergism

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

And I am happy about that; and happy too that they have a means of expressing it that their peers understand.

The fogies never feel it, tho'

1) Too busy paying taxes to care, I guess; and
2) I remember when I had the same high’s and signs, looking back I see it as childish rebellion, accomplishing nothing and symbolizing nothing. Having that frame of reference; I have little love for this generation’s mental masturbation and belief in the relevance and universal importance of their understandings…because mine had little enough import. Why I would accord anything but contempt to the latest bunch of poseurs is beyond me.
Yhwh Commands I be understanding, and I’ll try, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree or sympathize. The best I can muster is an amused contempt, much akin to what my “fogies” exhibited towards my foibles.

Michael said...

edutcher: J believes that you are a Jew and therefore support Bloomberg. It is another insane delusion of his.

Michael said...

J: "financial hegemony"

How splendid!! What is it? Whose is it?

Geoff Matthews said...

The graphic novel is very explicit in endorsing anarchy.
Alan Moore didn't seem to notice that tyranny always follows anarchy.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

It's a bit too complex for the likes of you, Edu-witz. Defending Wallstreet, the status quo, financial hegemony, etc--Bloombergism

That would be the Wall Street that pays for NYC’s Welfare State, right? The Ninety THOUSAND, IIRC, households that pay the majority of the taxes in NYC, THAT Wall Street? The financial system that funds Google, Microsoft, or the micro-brewery down the street, THAT Wall Street? Do you mean the Wall Street that funds the retirement dreams of “J”’s mom-assuming he ever leaves her basement-either thru the Institutional Pension System she is a part of or the Individual Retirement Account(s) she may hold, THAT Wall Street?
As opposed to a bunch of smelly hippies, with Madonna Studies Degrees and lots of student loans or trust funds or semi-literate Internet trolls who have provided nothing of value, and propose nothing concrete, because their vapid brains can only tenuously grasp the idea of “platform” or “Program” and who seem to think that “raising awareness/consciousness” is somehow a substitute for some thought? Please note hippies Lenin wrote What is to be done not What I want to engender or What I want to raise awareness of. Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence not the Declaration Designed to Raise Awareness of Our Grievances.

Alan said...

Certain Ron Paul supporters staged an explicitly Vendetta-themed fundraiser, scheduled for the 5th of November 2007.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/10/19/video-ron-paul-supporters-getting-creepier-by-the-minute/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCz-zpbhaGE

Full disclosure: I was born on Guy Fawkes Day 1960. My b-day coincides with the national election day every 28 years - in '68 when we got Nixon, and in '96 when we got Clinton. What a trend. I'm dreading 2024.

BJM said...

@Scott M

V was an overtly political movie with a definite message.

Exactly...and as others up thread have pointed out...an anti-statist message lost on the OWS-ers.

Indigo Red said...

This is a much better anonymous mask.

Sofa King said...

[quote]The graphic novel is very explicit in endorsing anarchy.
Alan Moore didn't seem to notice that tyranny always follows anarchy.[/quote]

To be fair, the graphic novel character of V is very explicit in endorsing anarchy. The overall story is a bit more ambiguous. (Granted, by putting anarchy up against fascism, it rather stacks the deck.)

BJM said...

@Dead Julius

It is an expression of deep visceral hate for the structures of social and political control.

The irony is inescapable as 60's progessives and their philosphical progengy now control the levers of power/wealth and higher educational system that yolked the OWS protesters with college loan debt, trillions in governmental debt, joblessness and a diminished future.

They have met the enemy and it is them.

BJM said...

@Jason

I don't think Remember November means what the left/OWS thinks it means.

Alex said...

It just proves what cowards the left-wing are. You never see Tea Partiers wearing masks.

J said...

Financial hegemony? Why, Mikey Chandala...maybe check out like economic history of last few years--AIG,JP Morgan, Lehman Bros.Countrywide,etc. Produced by Larry Summers, mostly (even back in Clinton days--ie, Summers pushed for de-reg, swaps, easier quals, trading with secured funds,etc). But that might be a bit much for a company boy such as yrself.

Alex said...

I don't buy the idea that Alan Moore was endorsing anarchy. He's just another left-wing statist like all the others.

J said...

Hey JoeSwine

shut yr f-ing pig mouth about my family swinemeat. You got that, satanist?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)



Gee “J” I was just expressing concern over your poor mother, having to work and provide a roof over your head, and Cheetoh’s and you hurting her retirement prospects, by hogging the couch and damaging pension funds.
I didn’t touch a nerve there, did I? I didn’t even discuss the extra 2-3 years of breast feeding or the “baths” you two took together, because you were such a “dirty boy.”
Considering what you’ve said about MY madre I really can’t what is so bad in a what I’ve said.

Hold it, when did I become a “Satanist?” Oh well at least I’m not an LDS Sock poppet….or mormanwccansatanistswine.

Kirk Parker said...

Alan, re your birthday: you've got a lot to answer for, buddy! ;-)

Revenant said...

Alan Moore didn't seem to notice that tyranny always follows anarchy.

If you think the graphic novel endorses anarchy, you misread it.

The character of V himself explicitly endorses the attitude that if people cannot learn to live a peaceful and ordered existence without a government watching over them, the peoople don't deserve to live at all.

The story ends with the collapse of the fascist government. We don't know what happens next.

Scott M said...

We don't know what happens next.

Yes, we do. Mila Kunis "putts from the rough", so to speak.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

The character of V himself explicitly endorses the attitude that if people cannot learn to live a peaceful and ordered existence without a government watching over them, the peoople don't deserve to live at all

Sorry but that’s a dumb message. OF COURSE people need a government watching over them! The question is what form of government and how much “watching” is necessary. IF “Anarchy” were a viable form of social organization, it would have emerged as the dominant form of social organization, doncha think? So basically, in your view, “V” is about humans being unworthy of life or freedom? If that’s Moore’s belief, or the belief at least of “V” then they were idiots.

Michael said...

J;You've strung some financial institutions together and some other words but you do not explain the financial hegemony part. Those two words roll off the tongue nicely but the meaning of them together will take a little effort.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

You've strung some financial institutions together and some other words but you do not explain the financial hegemony part. Those two words roll off the tongue nicely but the meaning of them together will take a little effort

If you’re expecting coherence from “J” or any of the Occupy (City) stalwarts I believe you will be disappointed.

Mitochondri-Allie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Revenant said...

So basically, in your view, “V” is about humans being unworthy of life or freedom? If that’s Moore’s belief, or the belief at least of “V” then they were idiots.

The person offering that message was a victim of medical experimentation in a death camp run by a fascist government that enjoyed the passive support of the people. His point of view appears to be "you, the people, have misused your 'have a government' privledges and don't get to have governments anymore". One of the things that made the graphic novel so interesting to me is that the ostensible protagonist, V, explicitly blames the fascist government not on a tricky group of evil leaders (the way the idiotic film version did), but on the cowardice and passivity of the citizenry. The evil leaders are, to him, a symptom and not a cause.

You're quite right that humanity has never been able to live without government, and the character of V explicitly points that out as a failure on humanity's part. He isn't presenting anarchy as a natural thing, but as (to him) a *necessary* thing -- something humanity will have to rise to the challenge of.

The speech he gives (via hijacked government broadcast) is here (starting with "Good evening, London" and ending with "You may return to your labors". This is not the speech of a liberator or a hero; this is the speech of a person who takes "live free or die" quite literally.

In any event, he is a character in a story; he is not a mouthpiece for Alan Moore. The story is about the conflict between two polar opposites -- totalitarianism and anarchy. Neither is presented as obviously "right".

poppa india said...

Take a break, Franglo, J has your back!

Rob said...

The best part: Time Warner gets a cut of every mask sold.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/technology/masked-anonymous-protesters-aid-time-warners-profits.html

John Lynch said...

If they were wearing Groucho Marx masks I'd feel differently.

Alan said...

Kirk Parker,

I swear I was with The Doctor, Romana and K-9 in Chelsea during the Gunpowder Plot!

Robert R. said...

When discussing Alan Moore's views and V for Vendetta, it's also worth noting that the fascist government and V the anarchist destroyer all die in the end, leaving another character to try to pick up the pieces. No reading of the graphic novel should ignore that Alan Moore and David Lloyd show anarchic mobs as ugly, scary things. Moore may be sympathetic to anarchist tendencies, even if just as a reaction to Thatcherism, but he certainly didn't candy coat it as creating a utopia by the end of the story.

Heck, one of the main characters walks off into the darkness, not the dawn or sunset.

Even the coloring is presented in various degrees of pastels, pinks, greens, browns, and grays instead of black and white.

The movie version is much more black and white. Literally.

However, it's also worth noting that the Guy Fawkes mask was one of the symbols of the Egyptians earlier this year. It's been a pretty successful symbol over the last year. Even with the irony of TW getting a cut of every mask sold.

Athanasius Kircher said...

I am a member of Anonymous, and have worn my Guy Fawkes masks at more than 100 protests against Scientology over the last four years here in San Francisco.

I am a military veteran and a libertarian Republican who wishes Mitch Daniels had not dropped out of the race.

We wear GF masks to protect us from the Church of Scientology's intelligence agency, the Office of Special Affairs (OSA).

Unknown to the rightist blogosphere we have caused Scientology to implode and set thousands of terrified ex-Scientologists and their families free to speak about the horrendous abuses and subversion of our government Scientology perpetrates.

We chose the Guy Fawkes mask because of the Epic Fail Guy meme on 4chan, from where we arose to take on Scientology in January 2008, and whose culture and particularly its hilarity we share in our relentless trolling of Scientology, OSA, and Tom Cruise.

We also chose the GF mask because we revere Frank Moore's graphic novel and the movie V For Vendetta. It symbolizes revolt against totalitarian tyranny.

Nothing could be more apt for the fight against abusive totalitarian cult leader David Miscavige, his intelligence agency, and its campaigns of defamation and destruction.

Also, V for Vendetta has the epic music meme, Tschaikovsky's 1812 overture.

My comrades on the right have been virtually silent on Anonymous and Scientology.

We are that rara avis, a politically cross-ideological alliance of leftists, libertarians and Tea Partiers that has managed not to destroy itself within months.

We keep partisan polemics out of our planning operations against Scientology at our central forum Why We Protest - whyweprotest.net and confine it to Off Topic Discussions.

We are the only group operating as Anonymous that has a solid existence in the last four years, and has accomplished extraordinary things in exposing Scientology.

The rightwing blogosphere has been almost totally AWOL except for Death By A Thousand Papercuts (DBPK)

It is time to make some distinctions. Anonymous is simply a name, a logo, and a striking mask that anyone can use for any ideological purpose. Currently a lot of shadowy leftist groups are exploiting it.

We call our anti-Scientology operation Project Chanology. Chanology is going to be around long after the leftist anonymous groups have crashed and OWS has destroyed itself.

I invite you to check us out at Why We Protest. I hope you will consider joining us.