September 27, 2011

See, this is what happens when you get people's hopes up.



Link.

148 comments:

Fred4Pres said...

Are you suggesting Da One should have toned it down and said things are really going to suck (until after re-election in 2012)?

Carol_Herman said...

Feh. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts FDR also had popularity going up and down. (And, people complaining about one thing. Or another. Including not getting jobs. And, Hitler.

What you'd want to see are better candidates. But right now those in the race think they have to appeal to the base. (No one elected is gonna veer off Boehner's path.)

And, from the way obama veered off the beaten path ... with the Israelis ... Seems to me he moves fast for a politician.

Do I trust this? (Sure. Like a man whose on top of ya, saying he'll call ya, t'mara.)

Sofa King said...

Wow. That is approaching revolutionary levels.

garage mahal said...

Wow, what the hell happened in 2010??

bagoh20 said...

So except for a short moment of silly leftist euphoria, that 9/11 stunt was pretty successful.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Poor Obama, he's was nothing more than a brief reprieve from reality.

MikeR said...

Interesting that it never even approached Reagan/Clinton's awesome numbers, even at the very beginning of Obama's presidency.

sane_voter said...

How low can it go? If unemployment cracks 10%, so will those satisfied with government.

chickenlittle said...

Do I trust this? (Sure. Like a man whose on top of ya, saying he'll call ya, t'mara.)

Yes. The best Obama can do is destroy, because he sure can't inspire. So I'd say it's all going according to his plan--so far.

Paul said...

Soon it will be pitchfork time! Or maybe tar and feathers.

And we hear the Governor of North Carolina wanting to suspend elections for 2 years so congress can 'concentrate' on the economy.

Yea, strait out of Hitler's Germany 1934.

So I guess we have better make sure in 2012 the race isn't even close, or Barack Hussein Obama will do an Al Gore.

viator said...

There is a cure. Cancel elections...

"I think we ought to suspend, perhaps, elections for Congress for two years and just tell them we won't hold it against them, whatever decisions they make, to just let them help this country recover. I really hope that someone can agree with me on that," Perdue said. "You want people who don't worry about the next election."

The News & Observer

"So what to do? To solve the serious problems facing our country, we need to minimize the harm from legislative inertia by relying more on automatic policies and depoliticized commissions for certain policy decisions. In other words, radical as it sounds, we need to counter the gridlock of our political institutions by making them a bit less democratic."

TNR

pm317 said...

garage mahal said...

Wow, what the hell happened in 2010??
------------------
Repubs took the House?! ;) then of course dissatisfaction returned looking at their candidates. You know, the new boss same as the old boss.

pm317 said...

MikeR said...

Interesting that it never even approached Reagan/Clinton's awesome numbers, even at the very beginning of Obama's presidency.
-----------

Yep, good point!

bagoh20 said...

This is like that right direction / wrong direction question. It tells you nothing about why.

If liberals want things to be more liberal at the same time conservatives feel the opposite, then you get low satisfaction numbers. It can be bad government or a strongly split nation when both parties are sharing power.

Both bases are deeply dissatisfied and as well as those leaning either way, but there is no mandate to be discerned from it.

Carol_Herman said...

Me, and Jim Rogers have a thing going.

He says why look at Europe's failed states. And, then he mentioned ours. Michigan. California. And, at least one other. With economies further down the toilet than Ireland, Greece, and Spain, combined.

"All the Europeans have to do is let Greece default."

Well, in all defaults, all you owe are pennies on the dollar. After bankruptcy you get to go all over again ...

We're in for a rough ride.

And, I still think Obama is just staying out of the path of the debris.

While no one on the republican side talks much about financial failures LOOMING UP. They talk about canceling Roe. Then, either building a fence. Or allowing in a whole new network of voters from Mexico.

As if the GOP has no real problems.

pm317 said...

I wonder if Obama will do a great job reacting to this.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

MikeR said...

Interesting that it never even approached Reagan/Clinton's awesome numbers, even at the very beginning of Obama's presidency.

If I'm reading the data points correctly there are no Clinton numbers, nor any Carter numbers.

m stone said...

Wow, what the hell happened in 2010??

Obamacare was passed and people lost faith in government to govern according to their will.

AJ Lynch said...

I'd like to see this poll question:

Do you believe most poll questions are smart or dumb?

traditionalguy said...

That's what they call "a vote of no confidence."

The year that it headed down was 1999 when we saw that the roaring 90's were over.

The consequences of our New World Order included closing down the American economic miracle so that the Chinese economic miracle could take over.

The Dot Com bubble was losing its steam then, and our governors initiated a Housing bubble to replace mask our lost jobs and lost savings with building real estate developments which drew the savings of the world here to create a false steam that would evaporate overnight in 2008.

Absolutely nothing to reverse the Chinese ascension and American collapse has been done, especially by Obama who has done everything he can to finish us off.

Have a nice day,

pm317 said...

Moral of the story: don't get people's hopes up when you are not ready!

"I mean, We had this with Obama. He wasn't ready, it turns out, really."

AJ Lynch said...

I have to give that NC governor a partial pass. I don't think she was recommending or suggesting elections be suspended. She was just doing some wishful thinking out loud and wishing for a magic wand and a magic timeout. That said, I am pretty sure she is a prototypical librul dope.

richard mcenroe said...

"Are you suggesting Da One should have toned it down and said things are really going to suck (until after re-election in 2012)?"

It worked for Churchill, but he was a real leader. And he inherited a war and an economy and everything!

MikeR said...

"If I'm reading the data points correctly there are no Clinton numbers, nor any Carter numbers." Ignorance-is-bliss, could you explain? Maybe I'm reading the graph wrong. Doesn't it run from the 70s through the present?

richard mcenroe said...

"See, this is what happens when you get people's hopes up."

There's a difference between getting people's hopes up and lying through your teeth. Or not being able to tell the difference.

edutcher said...

As Richard Gephart once said, "The fat lady hasn't sung yet, but I hear her tuning up".

Carol_Herman said...

Feh. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts FDR also had popularity going up and down.

Not that much.

bagoh20 said...

"Wow, what the hell happened in 2010??
------------------
Repubs took the House?!"


But the dissatisfaction came first. That's why they won. And it continues.

AJ Lynch said...

Richard:

Obama and his peeps "not being able to tell the difference" gets my vote.

Fred4Pres said...

It is a weird graph. Not clear what the question was that was asked to respondents. It appears to be general govenrment, not related to the White House directly (although that must be a big component of it).

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Doesn't it run from the 70s through the present?

Yes, but the data points are very sparse before 2000. ( On my computer I can see the individual points in certain years. Even if you don't see those, you should be able to note that the graph has straight segments for multiple year stretches before 2000 )

Big Mike said...

I would not care to be an incumbent of either party after looking at that graphic. Especially not a long-term incumbent.

I think Obama should suck it up, realize that he's toast, and start really working with Boehner and company. Except that he already thinks he's doing what's right, does he not?

mesquito said...

Shaping up to be a very, very bad year for incumbants. Including President Dickhead.

Carol_Herman said...

Do you know what statistics and graphs do? They make people's eyes glaze over.

For a time I believed that we'd see a "Ross Perot" jumping out of the woodwork. But ya know what? A "Ross Perot" type wouldn't waste the money.

And, either Perry or Mitt are gonna be fun for Obama to run against. He's not going to have to do any heavy lifting. (With the fireworks ahead in Europe ... Obama may even decline to do debates.) Presidents can get away with this ... Obama can say he's seen enough debates, already.

He will do "fund raisers" though. That's like Jerry Lewis doing a "telethon." It raises money like nobody's business.

While Mitt, sooner or later, is going to be asked about the Mormon's "funny underwear."

Let alone his dad's famous remark that he had been brainwashed.

What exactly are "flip-flops" ... except corrections for having been "brainwashed" into one political "wave." And, then trying to find another one.

It's like missing slippers. You keep looking ... because you know they are there "somewhere." (But you get outsmarted by your dog.)

campy said...

Looks like a lotta racism out there.

VW: tarpper Trooper's country cousin

Coketown said...

We should start over. I'll do my part by getting the ball rolling:

Article I, section I...

Okay, now somebody else take it.

Real American said...

we shouldn't use affirmative action for presidents, either.

traditionalguy said...

We had been sold out early on by the Clintons for campaign cash. The Arkansas guy fully understood what Sam Walton had wrought down in Bentonville.

Their arose a tacit agreement to let the industrial expertise and capital investment leave the USA in exchange for a piece of the billions in currency flows among allies all over the globe from Hong Kong to London.

The American Middle class had never been betrayed for bribes from foreign wealth before and still doesn't want to believe it.

As Herman Cain says, we need to first identify the problem, and then solve it.

Carol_Herman said...

Mike R says Clinton had awesome numbers? REALLY?

"That" 1992 race tossed the elder Bush out of office! Ross Perot hated the elder Bush. (Probably hated the whole family!)

So, Ross Perot goes on Larry King Live ... and Larry gets him to announce an independent run.

Okay.

This independent run needs volunteers in 50 states to collect enough signatures for Ross's name to be on all the state's ballots. And, this happens! BEFORE OPRAH! Before the Internet!

TV networks went crazy covering this story.

And Bill Clinton wins the presidency with a 37% PLURALITY.

Then, in 1994 ... Bill Clinton faces the GOP rout that took place in da' House ...

And, then? Newt, the GIFT to Bill Clinton ... gives Clinton the "flashlight" to find the middle. And, Bill becomes poular!

At least Boehner's not supplying Obama with a flashlight.

While Obama is not dropping his pants.

Stay tuned.

Amartel said...

This is what happens when you lie to stupid people. Like,
Really, I'm getting free shit? Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.
...
Wait, you were lying about that? BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

murgatroyd666 said...

"If I'm reading the data points correctly there are no Clinton numbers, nor any Carter numbers." Ignorance-is-bliss, could you explain? Maybe I'm reading the graph wrong. Doesn't it run from the 70s through the present?

The graph is essentially meaningless for any time before 2002. There's one data point from the height of Watergate, nothing during Jimmy Carter's presidency, one data point from Reagan's two terms, one data point from George H.W. Bush's term, and nothing during Bill Clinton's two terms as president.

There's a twelve-year stretch without any data. They shouldn't have connected those two data points with a solid line.

sorepaw said...
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sorepaw said...
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edutcher said...

Big Mike said...

I would not care to be an incumbent of either party after looking at that graphic. Especially not a long-term incumbent.

A lot of analysts have been saying the same thing; that we're looking at a long period of turbulence in elective office.

CEO-MMP said...

No, it's what happens when the POTUS is a complete douchebag and waste of skin.

Titus said...

Did you guys see Nancy Grace's nipple slip last night on DTWTS?

She has huge nipples.

Tits.

Big Mike said...

I agree that Bev Perdue's unbelievable statement in favor of suspending elections in 2012 is really scary. If she was joking, that's nothing for any politician to joke about. If she wasn't, then words fail me.

But the scariest news today by far is the 20,000 shoulder-launched surface to air missiles that have gone missing from unguarded Libyan military depots. That is, potentially, a lot of shot down airliners.

Does anybody remember Barack Obama getting Republican buy-in on the "kinetic military action" in Libya? Any Republican votes on the War Powers Act? No? Maybe now you Dumbocrats can see why the processes that the US has prior to commiting our military to some adventure are the way they are.

Those stolen missiles were an absolutely foreseeable consequence of taking down Qaddafi. Maybe if the decision had gone through some serious vetting and not simply been made up by Barack Obama as he went along, perhaps the US would have thought twice about it.

chickenlittle said...

Those stolen missiles were an absolutely foreseeable consequence of taking down Qaddafi. Maybe if the decision had gone through some serious vetting and not simply been made up by Barack Obama as he went along, perhaps the US would have thought twice about it.

Thank you for making that point. We can hope that the stolen weapons don't show up, but if they do, we won't forget why.

Carol_Herman said...

Okay, edutcher ...

I took your stupid link.

It gives FDR's "poll ratings" starting in 1941 ... HELLO!

1941. With the "Day that shall live in Infamy" fame.

NOT what I said at all!

Back in 1932 FDR won. Hoover LOST.

FDR won again, in 1936! And, then he won again in 1940. Then, he won yet again in 1944 ... even though he was so sick he was dying.

The only change for the 1944 run ... was to bounce out Wallace as veep. And, to "stick in" Truman.

Ya know. Not only will Obama win in 2012 ... I think the democraps are gonna try to go back to the FDR model ... Where Obama can win, again, in 2016. And, again, in 2020.

Why not?

What are rules?

Who put in this 2 terms and you're out "thing?"

Take a reality check.

Obama is the candidate to beat.

And, his worst attributes he inherited from his mom. She was white. (Without a lick of common sense.)

Sure. You can graph whatever you want. Be happy.

Pick "Jim" Perry.

Pick Milton.

Then? Karl Rove will toss in, for good measure ... JEB.

Nobody could make up the GOP's crazy stance. While now I'm just tagging along for the laughs.

NYTNewYorker said...

NURSE STAT!!!!!

A. Shmendrik said...

Big Mike said:

Those stolen missiles were an absolutely foreseeable consequence of taking down Qaddafi. Maybe if the decision had gone through some serious vetting and not simply been made up by Barack Obama as he went along, perhaps the US would have thought twice about it.


How hard would it have been for Obama to devote 1/25th of the resources loaned to NATO against Libya to eliminating the supply depots with the shoulder launched missiles? Don't tell me we didn't know he had them. That looks like a mistake that will pay back, big time, for decades. I have often worried about what these Islamic radicals would do if they could get their hands on such weapons in numbers, and sit under the approach pattern to Hartsfield or O'Hare. You could lose 20 aircraft before others could be diverted.

Cedarford said...

Sofa King said...
Wow. That is approaching revolutionary levels.
========================
Yeah. And right now, a majority of people think beyond the two Parties, the whole US system is broken and corrupted.

The highest satisfaction that their country is going in the right direction was found by Pew Global to be with Chinese citizens. 83%.
Few lawyers. Standard of living doubled, 80 million new jobs created since 1997. Whole ports and Empire State Building sized projects built in barely a year's time from concept to finish. Modern, nimble Constitution done in 1982. Low crime, high innovation. Second only to the now-stalled US in scientific papers, new patents. Moving up there too, fast.

Bruce Hayden said...

I agree that Bev Perdue's unbelievable statement in favor of suspending elections in 2012 is really scary. If she was joking, that's nothing for any politician to joke about. If she wasn't, then words fail me.

Same day from Peter Orszag, Obama's former OMB director: Too Much of a Good Thing: Why we need less democracy. saying:

So what to do? To solve the serious problems facing our country, we need to minimize the harm from legislative inertia by relying more on automatic policies and depoliticized commissions for certain policy decisions. In other words, radical as it sounds, we need to counter the gridlock of our political institutions by making them a bit less democratic. (remainder behind TNR pay wall).

I like that: "depoliticized commissions". Wonder how they expect to do that? And to keep politics out, like we did with Fannie May and Freddie Mac, both of which turned into high paying sinecures for Democratic stalwarts, as the two headed into the equivalent of bankruptcy. Sure. Apparently Orzag hasn't heard of regulatory capture.

My thoughts right now are that the Democrats in power are starting to panic. If they don't get a miracle, they may lose all three branches of government in 14 months. And, they may not get Congress back for a generation. And, maybe not the Presidency either - anyone working for Obama, Harry Reid, or Nancy Pelosi is presumptively tainted, and likely corrupt if part of the Obama Administration.

This dissatisfaction with our government is most likely to harm the party of big government, that has grown such from maybe 19% to about 25% from the time that the Dems retook Congress in 2006 to the present. $4 trillion so far to supposedly recover from the recession (caused in a big part by the housing policies of the Democrats), and much of it either being squandered, or padding the pockets of Democratic constituents.

Why shouldn't the American people be fed up with their government?

chickenlittle said...

Carol_Herman wrote: And, his worst attributes he inherited from his mom. She was white. (Without a lick of common sense.)

Excuse me? Is that why he wrote books about his father, the warrior-statesman hero? What are is best attributes and where did he get them?

And how come you won't answer my question about Palin?

America's Politico said...

This will not change the election outcome.

POTUS Obama defeats the GOP ticket, splendidly and easily, all over the nationwide.

At the K-street happy hour tonight, there was much joy in GOP weak candidates. The WH is still pulling for Perry nomination. This will ensure a quick (shock-and-awe) victory over the GOP.

ricpic said...

It's so painfully obvious to anyone familiar with the breed that Obama is pure grifter. Cause that's what a grifter does, he sells hope. What a nation of marks we've become as more and more lead soft protected lives. No blows, no learning from them. So when a grifter came along selling hope we were easy pickin's.

Bender said...

From 2000 to 2002, there was a confluence of factors that started the downward slide --

The dot.com bubble burst.

The built-in structural drags on the economy from oversized government began asserting themselves.

The rejection of election results and attempted coup by a psychotic Al Gore, together with the psychotic melt-down of the left.

And the final tipping point -- Osama bin Laden was successful after all in his ultimate plan to destabilize the American society, economy, and politics.

As if that were not enough, now, with governmental drags on the ecomony threatening to sink us entirely, the response by Obama, Dems, and the worm-like establishment Republicans is to smash holes in the hull of the ship to let the water out.

And the people -- whose government supposedly is of the people, by the people and for the people -- are powerless to do anything about it. Our overlords are hellbent on taking us all to ruin.

But what makes it even worse, is that there are still some 20 percent of the population who think that everything is fine and dandy.

cassandra lite said...

So, 26 percent lower that the lowest low of Bush 43. Why are we still wondering who's going to win the 2012 election? We're just whistling past the graveyard now.

gadfly said...

Our disgust has now surpassed the anti-government anger brought on by a simple robbery and a whole lot of lying about Watergate . . . but that is not surprising given the deeply embedded corruption of the present administration.

sorepaw said...
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David said...

I know you are kidding, but this is what happens when the folly becomes obvious beyond denial.

Bob Ellison said...

Many of the commenters here are starting to fester. Seems like a boil that needs lancing. Cedarford, AP, and others keep trying, but their lances are short and weak. We need a strong, smart anti-libertarian up here! Who among us can rise to the challenge?

pm317 said...

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Doesn't it run from the 70s through the present?

Yes, but the data points are very sparse before 2000.
-------------

You're right. There are not enough data points between 1986 and 2001. But if there were I would doubt that the two lines would have crisscrossed. I would expect some up and down but not to the extent of the trend line starting around 2005.

Steve Koch said...

So only 19% are OK with how the USA is being governed, that is 8% worse than Bush II at his worst. Amazing.

"I still think Obama is just staying out of the path of the debris."

That is not in touch with reality.

Sixty Grit said...

Just so long as that champion of the people David Price keeps his seat - that's what matters. And where has John Edwards gone - a state turns its lonely eyes to him...

WV: uptun - what we ain't be seein' in the 'conomy.

Canuck said...

People are happy when GDP increases and unemployment is low.

People are unhappy when GDP decreases and unemployment is high.

Just wait to see how people will feel about the government when the Eurozone fails!

Michael said...

Garage. In 2010 the Dems were routed. If you think the graph indicates a reversal in 2012 you are delusional.

Peano said...

Hell hath no fury like a blonde who got her hopes up ...

Revenant said...

Wow, what the hell happened in 2010??

ObamaCare and steady 9%+ unemployment are the two most obviously unpopular things linked to the 2010 government.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Bob Ellison: We need a strong, smart anti-libertarian up here!

The last one of those I saw, got elected President. Reference the graph on this post to see how that turned out.

Insufficiently Sensitive said...

Well, the ascendency of that dark green line into the high-percentage 'dissatisfied' territory is giving me much HOPE that there will be a major CHANGE in both White House and Senate.

About time for a clean sweep at the Dept of Justice, the ATF, the FCC and the EPA. For starters.

Revenant said...

My thoughts right now are that the Democrats in power are starting to panic. If they don't get a miracle, they may lose all three branches of government in 14 months. And, they may not get Congress back for a generation.

Or they may get it back four years later. The last time Republicans controlled every branch of government it took them all of six months to betray the Contract with America ideals of small government. I see little reason to hope the party leadership has learned its lesson.

edutcher said...

Big Mike said...

I agree that Bev Perdue's unbelievable statement in favor of suspending elections in 2012 is really scary. If she was joking, that's nothing for any politician to joke about. If she wasn't, then words fail me.

But the scariest news today by far is the 20,000 shoulder-launched surface to air missiles that have gone missing from unguarded Libyan military depots. That is, potentially, a lot of shot down airliners.


Excellent points. The Perdue line I've heard from a few people here, presumably with the sarc tag on, but this is the first time a Demo has said it in public.

As for the missles, I don't doubt Barry really believed it would be "Days, not weeks" and it would be all over. Your point about foreseeable consequences is valid, but I'll bet they'll be spun as unintended consequences from the media.

Carol_Herman said...

Okay, edutcher ...

I took your stupid link.

It gives FDR's "poll ratings" starting in 1941 ... HELLO!

1941. With the "Day that shall live in Infamy" fame.


Don't get nasty.

First, it starts in July '41, when the peacetime draft (first in US history) was quite unpopular, so you get some perspective, although finding figures for pre-WWII are a little tougher.

Second, figures for FDR aren't available for his first term and this, from Roper, is the clearest. His numbers, to me at least, seem pretty steady, at least until Admiral Yamamoto's fly-by.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Bob Ellison said...

We need a strong, smart anti-libertarian up here!

Jason said...

The last one of those I saw, got elected President.

I didn't know libertarian is a synonym for Christ.

*ducks*

Michael said...

Interesting chart. I believe we can refer to the period where the 'approve' line was above the 'disapprove' line as the Reagan Era.

Joe Schmoe said...

Wow, what the hell happened in 2010??

The DOE, at WH urging, provided half a billion in loans to a company whose financials were screaming inevitable default. That's just one incident.

The gummint also lost hundreds of millions of dollars on the bank and auto bailouts. Don't post links to cherry-pick how certain financial institutions are cash cows for the Fed now; in toto they're both big losers for taxpayers.

wv: mizer - what we need in the WH & Congress!

sorepaw said...
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Joe Schmoe said...

About time for a clean sweep at the Dept of Justice, the ATF, the FCC and the EPA. For starters.

Don't forget about the Dept. of Energy.

CEO-MMP said...

Carol "Useless" Herman says graphs make people's eyes glaze over. She's obviously never glanced over one of her own rambling, insane, idiotic and downright stupid posts.

Dead Julius said...

And yet Republicans will step in and solve all the problems... how, exactly? By re-emphasising that gay people are second class citizens, as Santorum wants to do? By doubling-down on the War on Drugs and War on Terror, reinforcing the police state that has been constructed around them? By giving payoffs to the interest groups in the Republican camp, rather than the ones supporting the Democrats?

Despite being dissatisfied, Americans will still vote for Obama and Team Democrat. The opposition, except for Ron Paul and Gary Johnson, are all just big-government big-spending anti-freedom types. They are SCARY!

CEO-MMP said...

by the way, for carol "yenta from hell" herman--here's a link that covers FDR from 37 on. The disapproval numbers held very steady until he decided to try and play god or king.

http://webapps.ropercenter.uconn.edu/CFIDE/roper/presidential/webroot/presidential_rating_detail.cfm?allRate=True&presidentName=Roosevelt#.ToKC1U-iIiw

Now shut up.

CEO-MMP said...

And how does Santorum want gays to be second class citizens? Didn't he say something like it doesn't matter if you're gay or not--you shouldn't get discriminated for OR against?

And your charge that Herman Cain is a big government big spending type proves how incredibly biased (and probably racist) you are.

Basil said...

This all started with the lefty meltdown into Bush derangement syndrome after the 2000 elections. When Al Gore withdrew his concession, he severely damaged the nation. Then Vice President Nixon served the nation by not doing this in 1960.

Dead Julius said...

And your charge that Herman Cain is a big government big spending type proves how incredibly biased (and probably racist) you are.

Dude, that you're-racist-if-you-don't-support-the-black-man schtick is soooo 2008. Obama played that song 'til the violin gave out. It was a one-hit wonder. Nobody wants to hear it these days.

CEO-MMP said...

When manbearpig was born it severely damaged the nation.
If his father wasn't such a deranged old racist piece of shit he'd have drowned him before little Al's first week was out.

Cedarford said...

gadfly said...
Our disgust has now surpassed the anti-government anger brought on by a simple robbery and a whole lot of lying about Watergate . . . but that is not surprising given the deeply embedded corruption of the present administration.

==============
Don't get the idea that all this magically happened when Obama took office.

And if only a conservative true believer is elected within a couple of years "everything will be fine and ducky again with a little Reagan magic and another tax cut".

This systemic breakdown of America has Administrations of both Parties involved, and the ovvereach and rot goes back to LBJ and involves leaders in both Parties and the short-term interests of American Bankers, Wall Streeters, and Nultinationals over the interests of the US People.
Worst of all, it has roots going back to the US Constitution..now badly antiquated compared to the nimble, modern Constitutions of many of our international competitors.

The Crack Emcee said...

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool."

- Richard Feynman


Obama didn't get your hopes up - you got your own hopes up and he capitalized on it.

Passing the buck for your own delusion is wrong - but typical - in such a situation,...

CEO-MMP said...

The nimble, modern constitutions...

yeah, the ones they change every week or so to justify giving away more stuff to more people.

douchenozzle.

Pogo said...

If only Obama hadn't promised that the planet would begin to heal.

I'm sure people are just pissed because the planet hasn't begun to heal much at all. In fact, it seems to have a big sucking chest wound since he took office.

That's got people a little bummed, I suppose.

Pogo said...

Turns out that big sucking economic chest wounds are really unpopular.

Whoda thunkit?

Fred4Pres said...

Crack, I had pretty low expectations with either Obama or McCain (Although, I figured McCain would be more of a fiscal hawk). And things have turned out as I thought.

Many thought there would be a recovery by now. There might have been, if we controlled spending and got our shit in order over the last couple of years. But we didn't and things really won't improve until we do so.

Fred4Pres said...

sorepaw, the dems will likely do bad in the next round of elections, but never underestimate the GOP to fuck things up too.

Lose power for a generation, I think I heard that in 2006. For the GOP.

Fred4Pres said...

Revenant already said it. Well said.

JAL said...

Went to a local startup tea party meeting tonight.

There were self identified Democrats there. Unashamed.

Whaadya think that might mean?

(Garage ... call HQ quick and let them know.)

AJ Lynch said...

Cford - you are obviously smart, but in this instance, you are a dope if you believe a PEW poll about how wonderful the Chinese feel about their country.

Pogo said...

JAL, clearly it means Bush will not be re-elected.

garage mahal said...
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Pogo said...

Too bad about that Solyndra infrastructure.

GM too. They don't make infrastructure like they used to.

Pogo said...

And Goldman Sachs.

That's some big assed infrastructure.

garage mahal said...

And if only a conservative true believer is elected within a couple of years "everything will be fine and ducky again with a little Reagan magic and another tax cut".

Advanced countries like S Korea, Germany, China etc are investing heavily into education and infrastructure, and the dipshit Republican right in this country is busting unions, laying off/firing 300,000 teachers, and trying to cutoff Pell grants, job training, and letting 100 year old infrastructure continue to rot and erode. And they're damn proud to tell you how fucking stupid they are!

Geoff Matthews said...

Hope makes for a good breakfast but a poor supper.
Old Welsh proverb.

edutcher said...

garage mahal said...

And if only a conservative true believer is elected within a couple of years "everything will be fine and ducky again with a little Reagan magic and another tax cut".

Advanced countries like S Korea, German, China etc are investing heavily into education and infrastructure, and the dipshit Republican right in this country is busting unions, laying off/firing 300,000 teachers, and trying to cutoff Pell grants, job training, and letting 100 year old infrastructure continue to rot and erode. And they're damn proud to tell you how fucking stupid they are!


Last I looked, the only thing union teachers were teaching was PC and how to put a rubber on a banana.

As for infrastructure, GodZero said it:

Those jobs just weren't shovel-ready.

So the money went into the pockets of politicians and union bosses.

PS Red Chinese "investment in infrastructure" is producing a housing bubble bigger than the one we had 3 years ago.

Carol_Herman said...

I actually thing a Second Coming will occur before we get this "true conservative" elected to the presidency.

A better guess is what happens when the GOP loses their bid to unseat Obama in 2012?

There's always a life after election day. Most Americans, in our past, used to come together.

This also reminds me that my parents voted for Adlai Stevenson twice. They pretty much assumed both times that Ike would win.

And, they probably thought a man as intelligent as Adlai Stevenson wouldn't be elected ... because of the appeal necessary to garner voters from all 50 states to choose the candidate.

Yet my parents were NEVER embarrassed! They didn't think a party had to pick anyone else than the BEST MAN THEY HAD to run.

Didn't make it. Too bad. That's life.

yashu said...

But the scariest news today by far is the 20,000 shoulder-launched surface to air missiles that have gone missing from unguarded Libyan military depots. That is, potentially, a lot of shot down airliners.

This is the scariest thing I've heard in a long time. It's Pandora's box; it's doubtless too late to retrieve most of them now. 9/11 pales in comparison to what's possible-- not just conceivable, actually possible-- now. Hundreds-- thousands-- of Pan Am Flight 103. My god.

Of course, as we now know, there's been no adult at the wheel. (There've been some adults buzzing around, but no one where the buck stops, no one truly accountable.) I've dreaded ugly things happening under O's watch; this is the kind of thing I most dreaded. What the hell does O care? He got Osama! And there's important golfing & campaigning to do.

This is bleak, bleak, bleak stuff. In a way much bleaker than all the damage to the economy O has done-- because, if we're lucky, future administrations & congresses may reverse the worst of those regulations, mandates, bills. Our economy, god willing, will rebound at some point.

Thousands of portable heat-seeking surface-to-air missiles in the hands of Al Qaeda & related terrorists, now, as we speak: that nightmare is a fact, there's little we or future administrations can do about it. (Short of a much intensified world "war on terror" which has become impracticable & for which there is little appetite, and which probably wouldn't be enough anyway-- these things are easily stored, hidden, transported, and handled, unlike WMD.)

It's horrible. I haven't felt this anxious about national & international security since the dark days after 9/11-- and this is actually a much worse prospect. I wish I could be reassured, somehow.

Rialby said...

"Advanced countries like S Korea, Germany, China etc are investing heavily into education and infrastructure, and the dipshit Republican right in this country is busting unions, laying off/firing 300,000 teachers, and trying to cutoff Pell grants, job training, and letting 100 year old infrastructure continue to rot and erode. And they're damn proud to tell you how fucking stupid they are!"

I had to quote your whole run-on sentence back to you. How much fucking money are we supposed to spend on education? We spend more than ANYONE save Luxembourg and it has given us a bloated educational system that doesn't produce the quality of students produced in other countries. WHY? What's the definition of insanity you asshat?

Saint Croix said...

If we can just hold out for one more year, I think we'll see a big bounce to the market and the economy when the Republicans sweep this thing.

And it sounds to me like this guy want to run pretty bad.

Robohobo said...

Feh! You all are getting exactly what you asked for. Vote for an empty suit and you get a country run like an empty suit.

Quit complaining.

You thought he said:

"Hope & Change"

He said:

"Rope & Chains"

chickenlittle said...

@Crack, well said @9:32

Cedarford said...

CEO-MMP said...
The nimble, modern constitutions...

yeah, the ones they change every week or so to justify giving away more stuff to more people.

douchenozzle.

=================
The CEO of miniature-minded people says this without understanding the nature of our many rival's more modern and purposeful Constitutions, geared to the realities of the contemporary world.

China's Constitution dates to 1982 and contains sections to advance modernization, gaining of industries with all deliberate speed.
S Korea's dates from 1987.
Brazils was completely rewritten and presented in 1988.
Japan is having a vigorous debate about it's 1946 Constitution already being too archaic to be effective anymore in a rapidly moving world. The vote on revising it was made in 2005, but turned down on the theory that Article 9 obligates the US to defend Japan.

Malaysia 1963

India created an easy to amend Constitition updated by vote every year. The most recent form dates from 2011.

Last major revision and modification to the German Constitution was in 2006.

France - Most recent full new Constitution was in 1958. Scheduled to be rewritten at the 60 year mark to incorporate the changes to France and the World since then.

The world marches on, able to become faster and nimbler when comms, money transfers, technology instantly diffuses, any goods are days away be air or continental ground transport, weeks by ship...and any factory can be removed from one nation like the US and rebuilt in a nimble place like China in 3 months.

To say that we can compete saddled with a deliberately slow-moving system that counts on paralysis and resolvable disputes cooked up by wise men, but men who wore powder wigs and tromped through manure filled streets in a remote, untouchable corner of the world - is backward thinking folly. America needs major change. Eben to the Good Old Sacred Parchment of our ancient ancestors

chickenlittle said...

@Cedarford & Carol_Herman: Even the most apolitical people in my circles have given up on Obama. It's time you two did too.

I know you don't like my alternative, but what's yours?

traditionalguy said...

Obama's Strategy:

As November approaches when the election is close next year, the Obama forces will simply declare a moratorium on elections until Marshal Law has been lifted.

The rioting marchers for food and benefits that suddenly started during the Progressive Spring in Wisconsin will need to be negotiated with first.

In the meantime Marshal law will require disarming all citizens to ensure public safety.

garage mahal said...

How much fucking money are we supposed to spend on education?

We built the most robust and propserous middle class in the world through education and workplace representation. And it's being dismantled before our eyes through globalization and outright greed. Cutting education and access to it should be the last thing we should be doing.

David said...

Carol_Herman said...
Do you know what statistics and graphs do? They make people's eyes glaze over.

Listen up, people. That's analysis from an expert.

chickenlittle said...

Fighting garage mahal wrote: Cutting education and access to it should be the last thing we should be doing.

Denying educational and professional access to the better qualified person, regardless of skin color, is a waste of resources, and also represents a broken promise. Our country needs the best of the best, not the second best based on historical grievances.

chickenlittle said...

And it's being dismantled before our eyes through globalization and outright greed.

Do I have to trot out my lecture on greed again GM? You want to see the ultimate face of greed? Come out here and balance the books of retired state employees.

Most of all, quite fucking pretending that greed is a one way street limited to people like your Koch bogeymen.

Curious George said...

Hope Barry has a ground proximity sensor, because according to that graph he's about to make a big smoking hole in the ground.

Bruce Hayden said...

To say that we can compete saddled with a deliberately slow-moving system that counts on paralysis and resolvable disputes cooked up by wise men, but men who wore powder wigs and tromped through manure filled streets in a remote, untouchable corner of the world - is backward thinking folly. America needs major change. Eben to the Good Old Sacred Parchment of our ancient ancestors.

I disagree for a number of reasons. For one, consistency has benefits as far as planning goes. If you know the rules of the game, businesses can plan much better for the future, and are thus more willing to commit to expansion - which is why the government screwing up the bankruptcy system to bail out the UAW was so bad.

Furthermore, gridlock can be good. We would likely not be having the hearings on Fast and Furious, etc. if we had a parliamentary system. We are having them precisely because the Republicans took the House in 2010. And, right now, it appears to have been an abuse of power and abrogation of our laws far more egregious than any most of us have seen in our lives.

I think that this is why I am conservative and you are liberal. I don't want to change things just to change them, but only to make them better, and you appear to want to, regardless of whether or not they would improve the situation over the long haul.

Jim Howard said...

It occurred to me that for years prior to 9/11 many commercial pilots wanted the airlines to buy reenforced cockpit doors, rather than the cardboard doors then in use.

Airlines couldn't do it, because a reenforced door might raise the ticket price a dime, so the consumer would go somewhere else.

I think infrared countermeasures on airliners are the next thing we'll wish we had.

Just as there were cockpit takeovers prior to 9/11, there have been IR missiles shot at airliners already.

JorgXMcKie said...

We built the most robust and propserous middle class in the world through education and workplace representation. And it's being dismantled before our eyes through globalization and outright greed. Cutting education and access to it should be the last thing we should be doing.

garbage, you ignorant slut!! We're not cutting access to education nor cutting it. We've been screwing it up since at least the middle '70s.

If we want to have an educated public we need to go back to the subjects and the way we taught in from around WWII to about 1970. No PC crap. No emphasis on 'diversity'. No multi-culti sociology. No extraneous crap from K to HS graduation. None.

No "feel good you're all equally valuable" stuff. Reward kids for what they learn, not for existing. We absolutely need to give everyone an equal opportunity, a real one, but stuffing them with Lefty PC bullshit certainly hasn't worked.

And I'll be happy to let unions do their thing *if* they negotiate with those who pay them [in the case of teachers and other public employees that'd be the taxpayers -- make the unions negotiate with a randomly chosen group of taxpayers of size from 15 or so in small communities to 300 or so in large ones. Limit the negotiations to wages and benefits, with no future benefits that aren't fully funded under conservative investing rules and first put into the pay rate then deducted to be put into the investment pool]. And they should never, ever be allowed to negotiate "work rules". If they don't like the work rules, let them find another job.

Oh. And no school administrator should be hired without outside experience in management, and no advanced education degree should consist of courses other than teaching subjects. No more phony "Leadership and Policy" EdDs.

Bruce Hayden said...

We built the most robust and prosperous middle class in the world through education and workplace representation. And it's being dismantled before our eyes through globalization and outright greed. Cutting education and access to it should be the last thing we should be doing.

What is hilarious here is that the biggest reason for our problems with education is probably workplace representation - of government workers. Eliminate the ability of teachers to organize, prevent modernization, and automatically funnel part of their wages to their union for political purposes, and the school systems will be able to start improving.

Workplace representation was important in the first half maybe of the 20th Century. Since then, it has been a drag on our economy, and is one of the big reasons why a lot of heavy industry moved over seas - the industries that moved or flourished outside the U.S. were precisely the ones that had the highest union membership rates here. Think steel, auto, etc.

No one is really suggesting cutting education, but rather, cutting the increase in spending there. This is one of those slights of hand that liberals are so fond of - calling a reduction in the increase a cut, instead of a smaller increase.


But the problem is, as I pointed out above, that our school systems, thanks to your worker representation, are run for the benefit of the teachers and administrators, and not the students. Until that changes, no amount of additional money is going to help.

AST said...

The problem I have with polls and graphs like this is that those who are dissatisfied includes both liberals and conservatives, but they don't tell us anything about how it breaks down. You can't tell how many of the dissatisfied will vote for Obama or his opponent(s).

Obama is still raising funds because even though a lot of his donor base is unhappy with his performance, they don't want the GOP to win back the White House.

EDH said...

See, this is what happens when you get people's hopes up.

"You see what you get when you mess with the Orphans."

(Testing out SPLICD.)

wellington said...

I heard George Bush will suspend elections.

Steve Koch said...

"China's Constitution dates to 1982 and contains sections to advance modernization, gaining of industries with all deliberate speed."

Absolutely, unbelievably hilarious. You are holding up China's constitution as the example to which we should aspire?

You really want our political class, profoundly corrupt and incompetent, to redo our brilliant constitution?

That is a stupendously bad idea. We are already in decline, let's not radically accelerate the process.

Steve Koch said...

The cost of a college degree needs to be slashed, it is much too expensive. Most classes need to be mostly taught via computer.

There needs to be a balance between the left and right at the university level. The left has completely taken over our university system and has locked out conservatives from getting academic jobs at the university level. The result is that ordinary non lefty tax payers are subsidizing massive lefty indoctrination of our kids. This has to stop.

Our academia has permitted politics to pollute our university system. We need to figure out how to de-politicize our universities.

K through 12 education needs to be de-unionized completely.

Michael said...

Garage. The US spends more than any other country on a per student basis other than Switzerland and Austria. Germany is in 7 th place. S Korea is not in the top twenty.

AllenS said...

garage mahal said...
Advanced countries like S Korea, Germany, China etc are investing heavily into education and infrastructure

I've been driving since 1963, and there hasn't ever been a year that went by without a lot of road and bridge work. Schools are also being built. The money we spend on education is significant. Do you ever stop and think before posting such idiotic statements.

Moneyrunner said...

At a dinner party this weekend I proposed a toast to Obama. My hosts were shocked until I explained that Obama had managed to discredit Liberalism, Progressivism, Socialism (or whatever you want to call it) for a generation. You can thank Barack Obama for a sharp right turn in the political direction of the country. The Republicans could not have done this nearly as well.

The Crack MC has it right about fooling yourself being the easiest thing to do.

I also think that Barack is fooling himself. Peter Wehner has an article in Commentary:

I have written before about Obama’s deep, almost desperate, need to portray himself as the opposite of what he is, to conceive of himself in a way that is at odds with reality. We have seen it in all sorts of areas, including claiming himself to be a voice of civility, portraying himself as a champion of bi-partisanship, lecturing others about profligate spending, and saying he is the only responsible “adult” in Washington. Now we see this habit in a new arena – this time, the president as Obama the Stoic, a man so committed to “pressing on” for the cause of social justice he just doesn’t have time to feel sorry for himself. Indeed, he has now decided to sermonize to others not to complain, not to grumble, and to “stop crying.”


I have been working under the assumption that Obama knows that he’d lying, knew he was creating straw men and creating false choices. The thought that he is actually deluding himself and believes what he says is even more disturbing. It means that we don’t have a knave as President, but a delusional fool. That’s dangerous.

yashu said...

It means that we don’t have a knave as President, but a delusional fool. That’s dangerous.

This passage from Suskind's book (blogged here at JustOneMinute) backs up that interpretation:

[Summers and Romer] were concerned by something the president had said in a morning briefing: that he thought the high unemployment was due to productivity gains in the economy. Summers and Romer were startled. "What was driving unemployment was clearly deficient aggregate demand," Romer said. "We wondered where this could have been coming from. We both tried to convince him otherwise. He wouldn't budge." Summers had been focused intently on how to spur demand, and on what might drive a meaningful recovery.... [W]ithout a rise in demand, in Summers's view, nothing else would work.... But productivity?... If Obama felt that 10 percent unemployment was the product of sound, productivity-driven decisions by American business, then short-term government measures to spur hiring were not only futile but unwise. The two economists strained their memory... had they said something he'd misconstrued?... After a month, frustration turned to resignation. "The president seems to have developed his own view," Romer said.

Shudder.

Michael said...

Garage, when the U.S. was at its most robust there was no Department of Education. How could that have been? There was no EPA in the 1950s when the glorious industrial production was at its peak and the skies of Pittsburgh were like those of London in the 19th Century or Shanghai today. There were no OSHA regulations in those days and every single factory was unionized. Notice anything? You cannot have it all ways, comrade.

Sixty Grit said...

Carol_Herman wrote "my parents were NEVER embarrassed!"

Clearly.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

cford -- Those constitutions you mention are very different from that of the US, which is by far the oldest in the world. Japan's especially so because it was imposed upon a defeated aggressor.

Sweden (1809) and Canada (1867) used to be in second and third place until they promulgated new constitutions in the early 1980s.

There is, however, a profound difference: the US constitution describes how government is to be structured, but recent constitutions all over the world describe what government is to do. Worst of all is that thing in Europe with a "preamble" running well over 100 pages.

In short, they have all been attempts to enshrine the social welfare models and programs now bankrupting nations around the world.

Had the US in recent decades not attempted to follow those other nations along their path of folly by largely ignoring our own constitution we'd be in much better shape today.

The US constitution had some weaknesses during the century or so of centralized, industrialized development, but if you look around we're returning (rather rapidly) to a new era of small-scale, independent operators.

As Hayek said: ...central planning cannot work because it is trying to substitute an individual all-knowing intelligence for a distributed and fragmented system of localized but connected knowledge.

Just like Jefferson's yeoman farmers, and that old 1787 constitution -- which eschews central planning -- looks better and better with each passing month.

X said...

Wow, what the hell happened in 2010??

garage you ignorant slut, the tide turned when Barack and Nancy and Harry took a giant Obamacare shit under America's Christmas tree in '09.

Robert Cook said...

"...Obama ha(s) managed to discredit Liberalism, Progressivism, Socialism (or whatever you want to call it) for a generation."

No, Obama didn't do that, as he hasn't governed as a liberal, progressive, socialist, (or whatever you want to call it). He's governed as a centrist, capitulating to or willingly serving and promoting the interests of the entrenched interests who control both parties in Washington and who essentially are the government, (i.e., the military/corporate/financial complex). Obama is Bush lite.

Obama has hurt himself and the Democratic Party because he led people to believe and hope that he and the Dems would clean up the shitstorm of wreckage to our country left by eight years of Bush. That Obama has failed even to try to make good on his rhetoric reveals him as a fraud, and hurts the Democratic brand. (I didn't buy his bill of goods.) The Republican brand is already discredited, so we're left with...what?

Nothing. There's no chance of change, as we have a capitalist Politboro running things, and those titularly "in charge" are just stooges for the financial elites. As the independent trader stated frankly on the BBC the other day, "Governments don't run the world, Goldman Sachs does."

Cedarford said...

Bart Hall - Thoughtful post.

But many of the Constitutions written were not of the socialist utopia sort but ones that created a "nation operating manual" that was based on the modern world. That planned on how to compete, take industries and jobs from other nations.

The people that did the rewrites and new Constitutions in other nations not consider the US Constitution for inspiration. To them. it was badly outdated, archaic in some sections, poorly written in others like on war powers, thanks to coordination by national special interest groups nearly impossible to Amend on any urgent matter of great import. Worst, by those factors, enshrines an activist judiciary out of necessity as America's aristocracy because no other mechanism is available to modernize the document unless a Covention is declared. And a necessary activist aristocracy accountable to no one for life once appointed.

I agree nothing significant can pass by the Amending process that has any substantial controversy due to organized special interest groups.
The last time that happened was abolition of the poll tax in 1962. So the Constitution ceased to be a living, breathing document a half century ago.
(save what a few lawyers dressed in black robes decide for all of us on new Constitution updates).

We are no longer a nimble nation. All decisions are in judicial review and take years longer than our global rivals to do. And we don't know how the High Judges will opine until they leisurely get around to it, which creates great uncertainty and sabotages economic planning by states, private industry.

For example:

1. A highway interconnector has been stalled for 30 years by court challenges in my state.
2. From the beginning Obamacare was thought unconstitutional. Back in 2009. The court reviews will finally finish when the oracle of the Highest Jdges declares their leisurely call on the matter in the summer, fall of 2012. After 3 years - all while competitors sprint past us and each American is economically damaged by the uncertainty about Obamacare.

Phil 3:14 said...

Another Rorschach post from the Professor

Henry said...

That looks my chart, just without that spike in '08.

E.M. Davis said...

That's also what happens when you find a stranger in the alps.

Robert Cook said...

"...nothing significant can pass by the Amending process that has any substantial controversy due to organized special interest groups."

In other words, by citizens acting in their own common interests--democratically--in favor of or opposition to proposed changes to the Constitution.

The Constitution is difficult to amend by design, as ephemeral cultural passions or social crises might otherwise lead to the passage of ill-considered amendments which, once in place, are difficult to rescind. Look at the poor laws that are passed due to ephemeral crises that put us into panic mode, e.g., the U.S. Patriot Act. Although it hasn't been repealed, if it is ever decided that it should be--or if it is ever found to be unconstitutional--it can be repealed easily, whereas it could not be repealed easily if it were an amendment.

Seeing Red said...

.now badly antiquated compared to the nimble, modern Constitutions of many of our international competitors


Pieces of paper that are changed on a whim?

Where have I heard that before?

So let it be written, so let it be done?

Psssst - that's not modern, that's old world.

Seeing Red said...

I don't trust any politician at this point in time, no time to have Constitutional Convention. Too much mischief.

viator said...

Newly released audio contradicts the claims of Perdue’s press team that her call Tuesday for suspending Congressional election was a joke or hyperbole. In the recording, her tone is matter-of-fact and her comments are part of a serious speech.

“Listen to the Governor’s words: She wasn’t joking at all,” North Carolina GOP spokesman Rob Lockwood told The Daily Caller. “The congressional Democrats are wildly unpopular in North Carolina, so she may have been trying to invent a solution to save their jobs from public accountability.”

“If it was a joke, what was the set-up?,” Lockwood adds. “What was the punch-line? Where was the pause for laughter? It took them three hours to say it was a ‘joke,’ but when that flopped it became ‘hyperbole.’ We’ll just call it an unconstitutionally bad idea.”

Daily Caller

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Akai_Tsuki said...

what happened in 2012??
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