September 22, 2011

Live-blogging the GOP debate.

Hang out here!

8:02 — Watch it live here. Questions from around the world. This is the Google/YouTube aspect of the debate. The questions were voted on.

8:03 — The small businessman seeks the confidence to hire new employees. Perry has a message for lawyers: "Don't come to Texas."

8:05 — You want a more specific jobs plan? Look at Texas. That's my plan, Perry says. So far... it's all about Perry. "Governor Romney, you have a specific plan..." I'm sensing Fox leaning toward Romney.

8:07 — Romney won't define who's rich. He wants everybody to be rich!

8:08 — Out of every dollar you earn, you deserve to keep one dollar, says Michele Bachmann... but then she says we have to pay some taxes... so... I guess it's some ideological thing.

8:13 — "What? You don't call your wife a 'human being'! That's disgusting!" says Meade when Huntsman calls his wife the greatest "human being" he's ever known (which, by the way, was completely nonresponsive to the question asked).

8:15 — Herman Cain, is it just a coincidence that all those 9s just matched up in your 999 plan? Also, if we turn that upside down...

8:16 — Yesterday, Meade and I saw a guy wearing a yellow tie, and we were all: Yellow tie? Who wears a yellow tie? If you wore a yellow tie to a presidential debate, people would not take you seriously. Wearing a yellow tie tonight: Huntsman and Cain. [ADDED: And Ron Paul.]

8:17 — The question that got the most votes on YouTube: The 10th Amendment! How would you restrict the federal government to its original enumerated powers? Ron Paul answers and then — finally! — Gary Johnson. He does a prepared speech. My first impression of his looks: He's kind of like Harrison Ford. Meade says: "Look at his left thumb... It's like he's constantly pushing a 'Jeopardy' button."

8:22 — Commercial break. I'll go see what my son John is live-blogging.

8:29 — You old people, don't worry about Social Security. The rest of you people... worry! (Paraphrasing Rick Perry.)

8:30 — "You'd better find that Rick Perry and get him to stop saying that," says Mitt Romney, doing some sort of "humor" thing. Then Rick Perry gets to respond to Romney's charge that he's deviating from his book, and he points to some discrepancy between Mitt's book in the hard cover and the paperback edition. When Mitt gets a chance to respond to that, Perry calls the back and forth "badminton," which sounds like "Bad Mitt(on)." Mitt responds, but we're distracted by Perry, who looks super-happy. We laugh, and agree Perry looks like Reagan.

8:34 — Romney makes a joke I think we'll be hearing more than once: "I only spent 4 years as a governor. I didn't inhale." That's done with a glance at Perry, who, presumably, is a habitual governor, toking on power like a maniac.

8:36 — Eliminate one department of the federal government, one questioner demands. Cain says: EPA. (But then he's going to "rebuild" it, so... not really responsive.

8:47 — Lots of talk about education, and just about everyone seems to think the federal government ought to get the hell out of it.

8:52 — Romney slams Perry on in-state tuition for Texas students in the country illegally. Why should they get what is a  $100,000 discount compared to what non-Texan American citizens pay? Romney just doesn't understand what Perry is arguing.

8:54 — Yeah, well, try being a governor of a state with a 1200-mile border with Mexico, Perry says. "I don't think you have a heart."

8:56 — Perry: "Have you ever even been to the border of Mexico?" You can't build a wall, he says, in a head-to-head battle with Santorum, who asserted that Perry doesn't understand "sovereignty."

8:59 — The answer on illegal immigration, Ron Paul says, is to take away all the benefits.

9:05 — Romney hits Obama for going around the world apologizing for the U.S. and for failing to "stand shoulder to shoulder" with our ally Israel.

9:16 — Doesn't Michele Bachmann believe in a "wall" between church and state? She praises free expression of beliefs in "the public square" — which doesn't say anything about what the government should or shouldn't be doing.

9:18 — Santorum thinks it's "tragic" "social experimentation" to allow gay people to serve openly in the military. He argues that sex just shouldn't be an issue in the military. "Just keep it to yourself." So, he'd bring back Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

9:23 — Cain is revealed as a survivor of liver and colon cancer, and he speaks passionately against Obamacare, which would, he believes, have killed him, with the delays of bureaucracy.

9:28 — Michele Bachmann gets an opportunity to deal with her statement about the HPV virus and mental retardation. She says she was just relaying a comment someone made to her, but the real issue is Rick Perry's signing an executive order forcing "little girls" to get a shot to protect them from a sexually transmitted disease. She also accuses him of acting in response to lobbying from the drug company. Perry says he was lobbied, lobbied by a young woman with cervical cancer. (I wrote about that here, and Perry didn't meet that woman until after he'd signed the executive order.)

9:36 — Perry has a long "he was for it before he was against it" routine to recite about Romney, but his delivery is slow and halting, like he's getting tired.

9:37 — Romney is not tired, and he gets out the quote of the night: "I'm going to stand by my positions. I'm proud of them. There are a lot of reasons not to elect me. There are a lot of reasons not to elect other people on this stage. But one reason to elect me is that I know what I stand for, I've written it down, words have meaning, and I have the experience to get this country going again."

9:48 — Closing statements, apparently. I'm drifting off. Santorum, waving his finger in the air, says "Reagan," which makes me realize they haven't been saying "Reagan" over and over too much tonight. And then Gary Johnson says something about his neighbor's dogs' poop and "shovel-ready jobs" and cracks up at his own prepackaged humor. The audience loves it. Mitt Romney loves it. Santorum loves it. Hear that? Dog poop! Ha ha ha.

9:52 — They're asked to pick one of the other candidates for VP. Johnson picks Paul, because the country is "about freedom." Santorum picks Gingrich, and Gingrich has no idea who he'd pick. Paul won't pick. Perry wants to take Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich and "mate them up." And Mitt says, "There are a couple of images I'm going to have trouble getting out of my mind" — Cain and Gingrich mating and Johnson's neighbor's dogs pooping. And he's not picking his VP on stage right now. But any one of these people would be better than what we've got in Obama. Bachmann wants a "constitutional conservative." Herman Cain says this is a game, and he'll play the game, and he says he'll pick Romney, if he adopts 999, and otherwise Gingrich. Huntsman says Romney and Perry may not be around because they're going to "bludgeon themselves to death." So he picks Herman Cain because of the yellow tie. So... color.

201 comments:

1 – 200 of 201   Newer›   Newest»
mesquito said...

I don't have the heart for this.

edutcher said...

You mean I have to wear a bra?

Jason (the commenter) said...

Watch it here!

Saint Croix said...

gah, I just spend half an hour on a brilliant legal rant, and when I finally publish it, I'm on the second page.

And the post that kicked me off? "Shut up!"

Andy R. said...

Prediction: everyone except Romney is a deeply flawed and completely unserious candidate.

I can't even decide if I hope I'm right or not.

America's Politico said...

GOP debate is a oxymoron. There is no debate. The only debate is how big the POTUS Obama, the greatest, victory will have over the GOP. The K-street people say at least 70%. I cannot think of any scenario that GOP can win. One is that Romney will not be *allowed* to win. Thus, WH is happy. NB: WH wants Perry nomination. They are salivating. If you say Perry, then then they are happy. In fact, one K-street got me a double-shot of scotch when I said Perry will win GOP.

Re: Ron S. book about WH, forget it. The word is that no one will focus on it. NYT has forgotten it already. This should give you an indication how Press is planning to cover The POTUS Obama, the greatest ever. Even Clinton is afraid that after the re-election (triumphant), his stock will go down...

edutcher said...

Andy R. said...

Prediction: everyone except Romney is a deeply flawed and completely unserious candidate.

I can't even decide if I hope I'm right or not.


Now we know who the Demos want to win.

Surprise!

ricpic said...

Do they all talk pigeon on K-street, AP? Or only you?

But not you, Andy R, you're not a deeply flawed and unserious person with the askew baseball cap, oh no.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

That's a weird, um, sweater choice going on on Rep. Bachmann.

And did the audience just boo Gingrich?

- Lyssa

mesquito said...

After tort reform, Texas became the destination of choice for doctors. Sleazeballs like John Edwards stayed home.

Andy R. said...

Now we know who the Demos want to win.

I'm just one guy.

But not you, Andy R, you're not a deeply flawed and unserious person with the askew baseball cap, oh no.

The hat obsession around here is really weird.

Sixty Grit said...

I am not watching it, but I am guessing that 100 shut ups would not be sufficient. Election day cannot get here soon enough.

Saint Croix said...

If he flips just one of those 9s upside down, it's a 696 plan. Which is perverted! But definitely more fun than the 666 plan.

Jason (the commenter) said...

The Google poll has asked me to fill out the word verification "only once" about five times so far.

America's Politico said...

RicPic: I am watching with close to NINE people from WH/K-street/Press at the Mandarin Oriental bar in DC. More than half are women supporters of the POTUS Obama and a few minority supporters. We are united in the re-election of the greatest/chosen one. Each time the GOP candidates say the POTUS name, we drink two shots of scotch. When Perry speaks, we just drink and drink.

Saint Croix said...

No, wait, that's a 969 plan. I guess it works out okay that way too.

Although if those numbers are people, that first 9 is definitely facing the wrong way. That's an unhappy 9 right there.

Stop me if I'm sounding like Carol Herman.

Andrew said...

noticed the plethora of yellow ties as well.

rcocean said...

Why is "1 percent Huntsman" being treated as a serious candidate?

Sixty Grit said...

K street may be filled with talking pigeons, not sure, haven't been there lately, but pidgin is all Nepal's Politiho knows.

Saint Croix said...

A 96 is what you do when you're unhappy and ass to ass. And upside-down. That's why the 96 never caught on.

Ann Althouse said...

"Why is "1 percent Huntsman" being treated as a serious candidate?"

He's not. That's why they've got him wearing a yellow tie.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I love how Cain says the word "regulate."

Titus said...

Megan Kelly is not as sexy with her shorter hair.

I would still fuck her.

Newt Gingrich has a huge head. He is one ugly mofo.

Titus said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quayle said...

Well Mitt is right.

Perry says look what I did in Texas.

But the Presidency ain't a governorship.

Especially to supposed federalists.

Synova said...

I've noticed a lot of yellow ties at work. I glanced over at the new ties we got in and was all "Oohh... I like the... ack yellow!" But the one I was going to say I liked was gold.

Lots of bright colors. Light blue or teal instead of navy, etc.,

And yellow!

Solids instead of all prints.

NYTNewYorker said...

America's Pathetico, did you try the crab?....try the crab.

Jason (the commenter) said...

The very first question they asked Huntsman, he ran away from, started talking about his wife trying to fill time. And it wasn't a difficult question!

Titus said...

I want to see Mitt Romney and Rick Perry in a mud fight.

Titus said...

I am sick of hearing of Michelle Bachmann's 23 fucking foster children.

The red top is way too red. She needs to show more tits.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I'm not actually sure what Obama's Race to the Top is. Is it bad that Romney (possibly) supports it?

Saint Croix said...

Ron Paul has a Steeler tie. I think that's okay.

TOTWTYTR said...

"I only spend 4 years as a governor. I didn't inhale."

He only spent four years as Governor because he thought that was all he needed to get his ticket into the White House punched. If he'd thought it required two terms, he'd being saying I've spent eight years trying to get Massachusetts under fiscal control. or something.

MadisonMan said...

They didn't want to eliminate Dept of Education, or DHS?

Cowards.

MadisonMan said...

Ron Paul has a Steeler tie. I think that's okay.

Only if they were the reigning Super Bowl Champs. They're not.

My son will wear a yellow tie to homecoming on Saturday, but that's a school color.

Titus said...

Why is Google sponsoring this?

Didn't like 98% of Google employees vote for the libtard?

MadisonMan said...

Oh, I see someone did say abolish DOEducation. yes!

lyssalovelyredhead said...

You never see any of the candidates wearing a green tie. In fact, I can't think that I've ever seen a green tie ther than ones for St. Patty's day or supporting some sort of team or something. Green is a perfectly respectable color for most everything else; why not ties?

Carol_Herman said...

No votes for the "bad mitten."

And, Herman Cain doesn't have to worry about his flat tax. Because he's not getting elected.

Nor do presidents actually write tax law.

But why bother with such discrepancies.

Mitt Romney can't say anything ... because as soon as he would ... it would sound like what Elizabeth Warren said.

Mitt Romney's terrified at being tossed off the island.

We're not looking at possible candidates, here. We're looking to identify "the Survivor."

Carol_Herman said...

What if Mitt Romney runs as an independent?

The list of "also rans" right now, for the GOP, is nearly endless. But not bottomless.

Saint Croix said...

Don't get me started on green ties. Time Magazine once did a cover story about James Baker and his power green tie. That's when I found out James Baker was an idiot.

Carol_Herman said...

Titus, this thing has sponsors?

I thought "real sponsors" would be there selling "Shamwow."

ricpic said...

Actually a lime green tie would go very well with a navy suit.

Carol_Herman said...

You know, if Boehner is smart, at Christmas he will wear a green tie ... that has big red candy cane stripes on it.

America's Politico said...

Hey, if POTUS Obama, the greatest/chosen one, will win, then all depts. will be saved.

The GOP (not good people whose love for America is seriously questioned) want to remove:

- Labor
- HUD
- Education
- EPA

Question to GOP: Why cannot we eliminate the WH? This way you do not have to run.

rcocean said...

You old people, don't worry about Social Security. The rest of you people... worry! (Paraphrasing Rick Perry.)

Ha. We can't** raise taxes so the only way to 'fix it' is to cut benefits. So yes, if you're between 45-60, you'd better worry.

**= per Republican Dogma

ricpic said...

Did any candidate call Obama a putz yet? We'll know freedom is making a comeback when that happens.

edutcher said...

Debates aren't Perry's metier. He'll have to make his case one on one.

That said, he nailed Milton on the Social Security thing and did a good job on Santorum about the impracticality of a 2000 mile fence as the only means of stopping illegals.

That said, when Herman wanted to use the remainder of his time to push something else - and got it in - damn, I wish he was a little better on the non-economic issues.

PETER V. BELLA said...

Ron Paul wins on immigration.

Carol_Herman said...

Okay. Let me see if I understand Ron Paul "correctly."

Instead of a wall separating Mexico from the United States ... we should just "take away benefits" ... across the strip?

Should the "strip of missing benefits be 10 miles wide ... or 20 miles wide?

Given the length is 1200 miles long ... any strip of less than 500 miles wide ... would look positively skinny.

And, then? How would you use your Visa Card when you wanted to fill up the tank of your SUV?

Of course, if you ride a horse, this doesn't matter.

garage mahal said...

Mitt Romney wants us to know we must stand behind our allies. Not in front. Duh!

America's Politico said...

Perry: If I win, then I will make the Federal Govt. non-consequential.

Translation: If I win, the WH will go away.

Question to Perry: Why do you want to run then?

Kensington said...

Did Rick Perry really question whether Rick Santorum has a heart? Did that really happen?

This is the guy I'm expected to rally behind on the grounds of electability!?! Fuck me!

Fred4Pres said...

I am busy taking care of one of the kids and making dinner. Did I miss anything?

rcocean said...

"Ron Paul wins on immigration."

Yes, if you support illegal immigration. You can't take illegals benefits away, see various Federal Court decisions.

Nor would the Democrats ever agree to deny illegal immigrants health care, education, or any other benefits.

So, Paul's postion of: "Open borders but take away their benefits" which in reality means just "open borders".

America's Politico said...

I got a txt: If you could vote for GOP, who would you vote?

Simple: Romney. He is the best.

But, Perry should win. Then POTUS Obama is guaranteed victory.

rcocean said...

Perry *Hearts* illegal immigrants, unless they're eligible for Social Security.

Dana A said...

Lyssa: What you thought was booing was people saying "Newwwwt."

I think Johnson looks a lot uncomfortable.

rcocean said...

Why even ask about Israel? We all know what they're going to say. Its the sacred cow of American politics.

NTTAWWT

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Dana, yes, that makes much more sense. Thanks.

Titus said...

Let's get to the gays.

And they better hate them.

The one who hates the gay most I love.

Titus said...

Stephen Hill, the fag military guy, has huge arms.

The crowd definitely hates the gays.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

On Twitter, Daily Kos has now tweeted, at least 4 times that I've seen, something along the lines of the "Fox Freakshow hits Florida" (no commentary indicating that they're actually watching the debate, just that it's a "Fox Freakshow".

Does that sort of thing really impress people? Wow.

Chris Althouse Cohen said...

"I've spent a lifetime dealing with life."
- Ron Paul

Titus said...

The audience is like 80 plus and all white.

Hot.

EDH said...

Did Santorum say something about having "one hand tied behind our genitals"?

MarkG said...

The crowd definitely hates the gays.

Titus, their hate for gays matches your hate for straights.

rcommal said...

Ron Paul just blew an opportunity to explain how the morning-after pill works. What he did is just redefine conception as when seminal fluid hits vaginal shaft. What a shame. He, a doctor.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Santorum says that he "believes" the repeal of DADT undermines the military. I hate that- I don't care what your beliefs are, show me the facts that show that it undermines the troops.

Titus said...

Mark G I love straights...if they are hot.

Gays and straights...that are not hot I dislike.

I have contempt for people who don't take care of themselves.

Tits.

And the crowd cheered with Santorum's gate hating speech.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Ron Paul just blew an opportunity to explain how the morning-after pill works.

I would have liked to hear his opinion, as an OB, of how the morning after pill works, too, just for curiosity's sake (I'm sort of unsure of how I feel about the morning after pill myself, because I don't really understand it.) But I understand what he was saying and why he took that position.

Titus said...

6th grade whores should not be getting any fucking vaccines!

Fred4Pres said...

I do not hate the gays. And if anything ever happens to you Titus, I would take care of your rare clumber. You know that.

Titus said...

Is Rick Perry going to cry?

I am verklempt.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

If you're president, are you going to make me grow up and stop living off my parents' insurance until I'm well, well past an age generally considered to be an "adult?"

gadfly said...

Bachmann needs to drop out! She screwed up but cannot admit she did!

Titus said...

Thanks Fred..I think.

The Orlando Republican crowd don't care for the gay though and that's ok.

Go Florida Republicans!

How come they are for state rights for some things but not for others?

Gay Marriage, definitely not state right.

Everything else, leave it to the laboratory of the state.

MarkG said...

Mark G I love straights...if they are hot.

And those people love gays, hot or not. They know that gays are so fabulous, that they don't want them to be insulted by being treated like another victim class.

Titus said...

Romney Care is ok in Mass.

It never effected my insurance.

tits.

Titus said...

Give it to him Rick Perry.

Romney is a big fucking flip flopper.

Titus said...

No don't return to jobs.

I want more gay hating!

gadfly said...

Mittens, the flip-flopper says he never flip-flops.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

You'd think that Perry would have practiced that list of Romney flip-flops for a little bit better of a presentation.

gadfly said...

Perry suddenly cannot put two words together -- or maybe not "suddenly."

LilEvie said...

Perry anecdote alert!! I knew it!

edutcher said...

Santorum is really bad at this. He always looks like he's about to start whining.

Herman OTOH is always ready.

And Perry does seem to be getting better at this.

Compared to Huntsman and Santorum, that shouldn't be hard.

JohnJ said...

Fox (seemingly) likes Romney; setting traps for Perry.

Romney more upbeat; Perry comes across as a conceited older brother (or is it just me).

rcommal said...

Apart from the positions of 1) abortion on demand, period, and 2) no interfering with conception or potential conception in any way (other than abstinence), there are various ways people go and various combination of stances they use. Against morning-after pill + tolerant of later abortions in the case of even rape is one of the hardest of the various combo positions to square--precisely due to how useful the morning-after pill* could be in the case of rape (and even how compassionate!--based on the rationale for abortion-exceptions based on pregnancies due to rape).

Titus said...

the 9, 9, 9 policy leave me a little empty.

There is a lot of fattys in the audience too.
Some of the fat women can barely clap. That's sad.

Titus said...

Could you imagine crawling into bed with Gingrich?

That pasty, fat, butt ugly thing with a likely small hog getting ready to pound you?

Eeek!

JohnJ said...

That “Mitt the Patriot” shtick comes across better than one might expect.

gadfly said...

Gary Johnson with the words we will remember tonight. Thank goodness for his neighbor's dogs and their shovel-ready jobs.

Titus said...

Can Gingrich see his hog when he pees?

That would be my youtube question.

Whatever Works said...

You dubbed the "quote of the night" too soon -- Gary Johnson wins that one,

Titus said...

This is my list of who I would do, if they paid me:

Huntsman-free
Santorum-50k
Bachmann
Perry-150k
Johnson-250k
Romney-500k
Paul-1 million
Cain=and I am a dinge queen. I would need 2.5 mill
Gingrich for like 5 million dollars.

LilEvie said...

Tits and gays on steroids tonight. Thanks Titus.

Carol_Herman said...

Good luck.

If it's going to be "Mittens" ... it means money talks real good.

If it's not going to be Perry ... it means Perry has more liabilities than you can shake a stick at! And, the world ain't Texas.

Probably, Obama watches. Maybe? They give him a cell phone he slips into his pocket and he can pull out to see what's going on?

Or he reads text messages.

Whatever. Obama, I'm sure, doesn't see anyone, here, he can't beat.

But we can let such conjectures slide for now.

Want to play a game of "bad-mittens?" I used to love that game, until somebody told me I had to bet money.

Titus said...

Gingrich is getting hard because the all want him as a VP pick.

Does Kalista take some kind of medication while getting fucked by Newt?

This was great. it was patriotic, anti gay and full of freedom and love of country.

Tits and Clouds.

MarkG said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Titus said...

Calista is so awful.

God she is gross.

But you need to consider what she is going to have to suck off tonight.

MarkG said...

I only watched that last half-hour, but I agree with the post-analysis: Perry sounded like a retard. I hope he's not the nominee.

Carol_Herman said...

Yellow?

Is this a "Yellow Rose of Texas" thing? (She's the gal who took Santana in his tent ... And, she stole his wooden leg, to boot.)

While the Mexicans lost the battle.

I guess this is a distraction so we don't think of the nebish, Dubya?

William said...

Huntsman made an obvious move to pander to black Republicans by choosing Caine as his VP. A desperate attempt to gain another o.1% of support.

Jason (the commenter) said...

You know what? They ALL sucked.

Titus said...

Look at the outfits/costumes of the audience?

I see leopard prints in huge asses. And huge white faces with horrible glasses.

Wow, so declasse.

But yet very Middle America, where real Americans live in....cough...breed.

edutcher said...

Perry nailed Milton a couple of good ones, but, again, this is not his type of forum.

Herman, as always, was great.

Bachmann, Santorum, Huntsman, and Johnson need to go get a life.

Paul is going to retire, so this gives him something to do.

Like the Ronulan and Herman, Newt is good entertainment value, but that's it.

Lem said...

Is it over?

Can we have a cafe?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Frank Luntz's focus group says Romney won, no question. I'm not crazy about Romney, but I agree.

MarkG said...

But yet very Middle America, where real Americans live...

They're in Orlando, for crying out loud.

Titus said...

Now it's up to Frank Luntz, and his hairpiece, and the feedback from the Real Americans.

Frank Luntz is really fat. But very patriotic.

Titus said...

Orlando is very Middle America.

I did a guy in Orlando.

I believe they have the largest gay bar in the U.S.

Frank Luntz's shit isn't working but I still love it, even if he is obese.

Titus said...

I see perms in some of the fat women in the focus group.

Perms are just so wrong.

Carol_Herman said...

Titus, when a man's penis is really small, I think it's referred to as a cashew.

Meanwhile, how is it that no one farts?

It would make it better than the GONG show!

Maybe, next time, we could have Alex Treback (sp?) ... and a lit up board ... with "topics." And, the candidate who buzzes in first ... can pick the topic and say ... "For 1000, Alex, I'll take ..."

It would make this a much better show.

(American Politico, I hope you had a designated driver, so you could get home safe. How did you add your comments, here? Did other people in your group know what you were doing?)

Andy R. said...

Prediction: everyone except Romney is a deeply flawed and completely unserious candidate.

Prediction confirmed!

Lem said...

And then Gary Johnson says something about his neighbor's dogs' poop and "shovel-ready jobs" and cracks up at his own prepackaged humor. The audience loves it. Mitt Romney loves it. Santorum loves it. Hear that? Dog poop! Ha ha ha.

Rush told joke today..

ricpic said...

Do you consider yourself a Real Amerucan, Titus?

Fred4Pres said...

Titus said...
Thanks Fred..I think.



Seriously. I want you to be happy. and to live long and prosper. But I would protect and take care of your rare clumber if anything happened to you.

John said...

A question on these kids going to school in Texas:

They keep saying that they are children of illegals and thus should not be entitled.

What I did not hear was whether the children themselves are illegal aliens. It doesn't matter their parent's status. If they were born in the US they are US citizens as well as citizens of Texas under the 14th Amendment.

If they are citizens, they are entitled to EXACTLY the same benefits as any other US and Texas citizen.

Nobody seemed to make this distinction.

John Henry

Jason (the commenter) said...

9:18 — Santorum thinks it's "tragic" "social experimentation" to allow gay people to serve openly in the military. He argues that sex just shouldn't be an issue in the military. "Just keep it to yourself." So, he'd bring back Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

The audience booed a soldier serving in Iraq because he said he was gay.

Bender said...

The winner of the night?

Anyone who didn't waste a part of his life that he'll never get back watching this drivel.

These things are 100 percent absolutely useless.

John said...

If these are the best we can do (other than Ron Paul, possibly Johnson) then I say just re-elect Obama.

Maybe America is like the drunk. Electing these guys would be enabling the drunk. Until the drunk hits bottom, they will continue to believe they can muddle through.

Maybe we have not hit bottom yet. Maybe we do not *really* believe that this can't go on.

I just keep hearing same-old, same-old. I hear nothing much different from Obama. I don't trust any of them to really implement or even try to implement anything more than more of the same.


John Henry

rcommal said...

Not many commenters commenting here at all, and the ratio of commenters to comments is way off. There is also little discussion. It is only late September 2011. It will be interesting to see how this forum plays out.

John said...

Something that drives me batshit nuts is the question that kept coming up to the candidates and among the talking heads:

"At what level of income is someone rich?"

It is a bullshit question. Income and wealth (rich) are not the same thing and not even tightly related.

One can have a very high income, millions/yr, and have no wealth if they spend it as fast as it comes in.

Many others with relatively low, or no (think retirees) income are wealthy because they spent less than they earned.

If the news folks can't figure this out, they should be fired.

If the candidates don't recognize this, they deserve to be booed off the stage.

As I said, if I was voting today my first choice would be Paul. Second choice Obama.

John Henry

MarkG said...

The audience booed a soldier serving in Iraq because he said he was gay.

One guy booed and then a couple of others briefly joined in. Link.

Andy R. said...

I'm not bothered that some hateful bigoted audience members booed a soldier serving in Iraq when he said he was gay, I'm bothered that no one on stage told them not to be hateful bigots.

MarkG said...

I'm not bothered that some hateful bigoted audience members booed a soldier serving in Iraq when he said he was gay, I'm bothered that no one on stage told them not to be hateful bigots.

A "debate" run by Andy R would consist of a retard on stage with a crooked hat scolding the audience for whatever auditory outbursts they had.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I'm bothered that no one on stage told them not to be hateful bigots.

I'd be awfully surprised if they could hear it. How many times did the candidates have to ask if their mic was on, when it clearly was? Cameras pick these things up differently.

I agree that it was not cool, though.

Bender said...

The audience booed a soldier serving in Iraq because he said he was gay.

And exactly how is it my business that he is gay? Or your business? Or the business of anybody there at the debate?

Andy R. said...

And exactly how is it my business that he is gay? Or your business? Or the business of anybody there at the debate?

You should ask the people on that stage who want to make it their business by kicking any soldier out of the army that they find out is gay.

traditionalguy said...

I tried to explain the debate to my wife who did not happen to watch it.

She wanted to know how Cain did, and I said he was great. He has gotten better each time.

I had a real bad reaction to Santorum and to Bachmann too for their pathetic immature attitudes.

Surprisingly, I liked Huntsman.

Romney looked good on the surface, but I realized he was spouting whatever he thought would get him the nomination and doesn't believe any of it himself.

Perry was OK, but he needs to come up with some better lines that he hasn't said before.

The rest of them made no impression on me.

Has Anyone heard any rumors from Alaska?

T J Sawyer said...

Johnson repeats Rush's shovel-ready dogs joke from this afternoon.

But watch the video. He reads it! Looks down twice to make sure he doesn't get it wrong.

P A T H E T I C

a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

I think I agree with Ann on the HPV answer. I think though that Perry's answer indicates what 'game' he is playing. To put it in a tennis metaphor, he is up on the net, the opponent is in the back court, he is just going to bounce the ball over and score. The flip flop attack on Romney comes from the same perspective. Romney volleys rather too nicely though. I like Perry's courage standing athwart Republican self righteous cruelty to youth, YMMV. Romney is great at sucking up to the boss, i.e. the voter; I'm thinking of his pledge to put a 25% tariff on Chinese goods if they don't value the Yuan like he says (mentioned in his platform, 'words I stand for' I suppose). But really wars, trade or otherwise, are not desirable now. Huntsman got the best volley in response to the kid's question on health care benefits.

Titus said...

It was more than a few Mark G.

Embrace it, the republicans hate the gay soldier serving in Iraq.

MarkG said...

It was more than a few Mark G.

Look at the clip. I gave you a link.

rcommal said...

Re: "POST-DEBATE SPIN ROOM" label

Some no doubt see that as truth in advertising. Others no doubt see that as permission.

Others see it as unfortunate at least.

Dead Julius said...

"If you say that we should not educate children who come into our state for no other reason than that they've been brought their through no fault of their own, I don't think you have a heart," Perry said. "We need to be educating these children because they will become a drag on our society. I think that's what Texans wanted to do. Out of 181 members of the Texas legislature when this issue came up [there were] only four dissenting votes. This was a state issue. Texas voted on it. And I still support it today."

I am pleasantly surprised to hear this from Perry. Previously, I thought his entire existence could be encapsulated by the enjoyment he takes in murdering undesirable people and then getting thunderous ego-boosting applause for doing so. But-- heh!-- this remark is actually mindful. And it is contrary to Republican conventional wisdom. And it was said in the face of a mob of hopefuls who attacked him for it. How admirable!

I think many Independents and even a few left-leaning people will read this and realize that Perry is not a Republican robot. Perhaps they'll even look at his candidacy in a fresh light.

MarkG said...

Yes, 0.07% of Republicans hate gays. But that's still less than the Democrats.

I love gays.

ricpic said...

I'm in trouble if I don't write down a grocery list before I head for the supermarket. Don't wanna forget toilet paper!

Dead Julius said...

Gary Johnson should drop out.

He is not ready for prime time.

And all the stoners shouldn't have to make a choice between him and Paul. The weed constituency can only handle one candidate at a time.

Titus said...

When was the last time a soldier got booed at at a Republican Debate?

Priceless.

Congrats Repubs.

ricpic said...

I go to the supermarket, Romney goes to a debate. We both write a list first. It's almost like we're in the same universe...almost.

JohnJ said...

Romney wins.

Even with Perry by next week.

ricpic said...

Titus do you have dual loyalty between Homo City and America?

edutcher said...

Jason (the commenter) said...

9:18 — Santorum thinks it's "tragic" "social experimentation" to allow gay people to serve openly in the military. He argues that sex just shouldn't be an issue in the military. "Just keep it to yourself." So, he'd bring back Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

The audience booed a soldier serving in Iraq because he said he was gay.


No, they booed a stupid, self-serving question. The guy's more concerned about keeping his "job" (as he put it) than anything else - strategic situation in the Middle East, inflation, the economy.

It's all about him.

Dustin said...

" When was the last time a soldier got booed at at a Republican Debate?

Priceless."

It's lame hearing about an issue like DADT in such critical times, with economic problems and international problems of tremendous importance.

Also, that jackass was wearing an Army uniform, the one with a huge ARMY written on his chest. Like a prop.

I don't know that guy. He's probably a good man, but I think his choice to wear the uniform while making a political statement (a loaded one, too, claiming one POV is progress and the other is wrong) is completely unprofessional.

And it was the PT outfit, which just seems like a tacky way to address your country and next CinC.

Tacky all the way.

I don't think folks were booing him for his service to the country, as you know, but for his tacky way of making a point.

I don't see a problem with him serving, but I do think there's more than one legitimate view on this. And damn does it get old hearing about social politics and gardasil when there are real issues to debate.

rcommal said...

Dead Julius: Those kids are citizens, at least in a dual sense until at least until some point, even if their parents are not. This is what Perry won't say and what so many won't accept. This is part of what makes immigration law and its enforcement so tricky. If "those kids are citizens, at least in a dual sense..." weren't true, there would never be a discussion about the anchor-baby issue. The thing is that they are, and they are under statute. (Rick Perry gets this, that he can't get around that reality; whether he wants to or not is irrelevant, and he gets that, too.) Thus, where ought the ire and determination that it should be otherwise be directed?

JohnJ said...

Romney now at 40% on Intrade; Perry at 30%.

Everyone apparently beginning to sober up.

Dead Julius said...

@rcommal-

Oh that changes things very much. If these students are indeed citizens, then what almost all the other Republican candidates are saying is that our young people should be responsible for providing documentation of legal status for someone else-- i.e. their parents???!!! There's no way that adult citizens should be treated differently by the government because of the actions of others-- that would be communal punishment, or a legal distinction between two classes of citizens, either of which is about as un-American and un-Individualistic as you can get.

So really Perry offers no independent thought, nothing bold. How disappointing!

Steve Austin said...

The hard core conservatives may not like it, but Romney is looking very electable by the all important middle after these debates.

I liked Perry when he announced but am having problems with now seeing him in action.

rcommal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
jr565 said...

Wow is perry weak on immigration.

rcommal said...

If the U.S. wants to define its rules such that babies born on its soil are only U.S. citizens if one or both of its parents are U.S. citizens, or one or both of its parents were born on U.S. soil, or some combination thereof, or whatever, it could. But the U.S hasn't, manifestly at least not specifically enough, as more current times has brought to sharp light. (Recent times, prior to "more current times" flashed warnings and did so for decades, not that this mattered.)

Carol_Herman said...

You know, the real crisis is the falling EURO. Connected to the gnomes in Belgium. Connected to the Chinese ... not knowing where their next foreign exports can go to ... where they'll receive anything but monopoly money.

FREE FALL!

While Obama stayed clear of the debris path!

Where do you see recovery?

There are no retail customers on wall street!

Mitt Romney won't win IF he's nominated.

And, if the field really looks weak ... AND, Europe's going haywire ...

What do you think the "big issues" ahead will be?

It ain't gonna be about ROE!

It ain't gonna be about a religious revival.

And, Michelle Bachmann can just go home and shut her own lights off. (Given that she has 23 children ... she does seem to have found a way to get paid to keep them. What government resource is she using?)

You think you've seen "scandal?"

Tonight, you saw a bunch of white people. Plus, Herman Cain.

Not a cross-section of America.

Which reminds me. Ballots are printed in 22 languages!

So, who is appealing for the voters who request one of those "funny language" ballots?

Nope. We're not in Texas!

And, you can white wash Dubya's failures all ya want to ... but, boy are the old times ... washing up on shore, again.

With the EURO being the first to go. Borders are about to spring up all over Europe. And, Greece ain't the only country full of unhappy and disgusted citizens.

It's an amazing thing to see politicians screwing up in so many languages. (Even Japanese.)

Steve Koch said...

Titus was absolutely hilarious in this thread, on fire.

America's Politico is entertaining but needs to work in some new material.

jr565 said...

Don't know much about Johnson, but he sounds like Paul's non insane younger brother libertarian. He's wrong on foreign policy, but at least he doesn't sou d like an absolute liberal loon. Then again, his comment about how only Pakistan can save Pakistan, veered close to paulism derangement. But he doesn't sound quite as unhinged even when he utter his idiocy.
Libertarians should dump the crazy kook, and go with the borinng kook. Neither will get elected, but they will have a lot less to apologize for when they say they voted libertarian.

AST said...

Hey, to me, Ann and Meade are rich.
I think that if you can afford to hire lobbyists you're rich.

a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

@rcommal

I don't think Perry is just trapped by the Constitution. In the history of many Latinos here there is the story, 'grandfather was brought when he was 4...' Perry is not going to make the distinction as to if the student became a person in the U.S. then or at birth. I'm worried about Romney taking care of Romney and not the country. Many may be frustrated by Obama but may realize come election time that they prefer Obama and what amounts to his 'don't just do something, stand there' stance.

rcommal said...

Eligibility for POTUS is an entirely different thing, though there are some interesting intersections there.

Cedarford said...

Romney was a lot better than Perry, in the race that counts.

I also thought Huntsman, Newt, and Herman Cain had fine moments.

==============
rcocean - You can't take illegals benefits away, see various Federal Court decisions.

Sick to death of people groveling to some lawyer dressed in robes that orders new benefits and perks to illegals that have no Constitutional basis, no basis in State or Federal Statute. ESpecially when those decsions to entitle illegal invaders were made in a time when there was thought to be unlimited money for whatever government wanted to bestow on various interest groups, and borrow indefinitely w/o consequence.

It is going to get plenty ugly in the next few years as benefits for US citizens are cut or eliminated. Too many of our leaders are lawyers habituated to think the worst imaginable thing is to challenge a Might Judge. I say we have to call the cocksuckers in black robes out from time to time.

Explain how a Fed judge one of 3600, arbitrarily decides alone that illegals are eligible for taxppayer backed housing loans and they have equal right to scarce and free or nearly free pubic housing while US citizens wait without. Like Obama's illegal auntie in Boston, the Ghanan whore who accused DSK living in subsidized housing.

Titus said...

As a gay, we are very perceptive to the hate of the gay, and they hated the gay, not the question or any other the bullshit.

Just the gay, the gay, they hated the gay, but it's all cool.

Boo a man serving this country.

Because gays deserve any booing they get. Embrace it, love it and accept it.

And I am an American!

Titus said...

AST, Meade doesn't work so you will need to consider Althouse's take home pay only.

rcommal said...

Perry is not going to make the distinction as to if the student became a person in the U.S. then or at birth.

Perry's problem, then, is as outlined by the comments to which you're responding and with multitudes of people as referenced and indicated (and not with the commenter to whom you're responding).

Lem said...

Solyndra’s two top officers are to appear Friday before a House investigative committee where, their lawyers say, they will assert their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

Ouch.

Titus said...

MarkG, why didn't the 0.07 republicans vote against Bush's Gay Marriage Amendmant or Gays Serving in the Military then in the Congress or Senate?

I guess they don't support your republican position?

If it wasn't for the demos they wouldn't be able to serve and there would be a National Gay Marriage Amendment?

And were there 4 republicans in New York that voted for gay Marriage out of like 40 leglislatures?

Save it MarkG, the gays know who will kiss our ass, when needed.

Titus said...

Now, I need to figure out what I am going to wear out tomorrow night.

Toodles.

Carol_Herman said...

Europe is about to explode! Their money ... based on a corrupt idea that it could flow across borders ... so 20 years ago ... all the old currencies were burned and destroyed ... Has left the "BIG EXPOSURE."

What you call "liberalism" ... has died.

It was really about crooks. But I'll let that go for the moment.

HERE, MITT ROMNEY REFUSED TO TALK ABOUT REAL WORLD EVENTS!

Mitt Romney NEVER talks about anything important!

But what do you expect from a bunch of spoiled white guys? Throw in your nominal Black. Most Blacks don't know "Herman Cain" from a hole in the wall. And, they could care less.

So, obviously, Mitt Romney is not really appealing to "all voters." Right now he's "appealing" to stay on the "island as a survivor."

What's Mitt Romney afraid of?

Oh. You don't think this is fear.

Well, then. Who can argue with republicans who think politics is a religious experience.

Reality hit Japan when they had their earthquake.

Reality is hitting London and Paris, tomorrow. (If it's not already there.)

It's arrived in Ireland. It's arrived in Greece.

Failure to note this ... while running for the presidency of the United States ... is severely lacking in common sense.

Candidates?

They're crawling out of the wall like cockroaches.

Margaret Thatcher's reputation is going to be resurrected.

Romney's? There's nothing out there that's gonna help.

So, you saw a debate from Orlando. Not quite an "E ride at Disneyworld. Ask for a refund.

Popville said...

>>
8:03 — The small businessman seeks the confidence to hire new employees. Perry has a message for lawyers: "Don't come to Texas
>>

Heh, unless you're patent trolls.

Col Mustard said...

Booing the homosexual soldier? Why not?

Put a soldier on TV, I want to hear about soldier stuff. Not about whether the soldier likes to fondle his mates or do it doggy-style or whatever.

mccullough said...

The candidates should thank the soldier for his service, regardless of their views on DADT.

mccullough said...

The candidates should thank the soldier for his service, regardless of their views on DADT.

mccullough said...

Huntsman has some good policy proposals about cutting the corporate tax and natural gas exploration. Perry seemed to pick up on those ideas. Perry needs to put forth some proposals or just adopt Huntsman's ideas and learn to articulate them.

Revenant said...

the real issue is Rick Perry's signing an executive order forcing "little girls" to get a shot to protect them from a sexually transmitted disease

What kind of monster IS Perry?

We can't go around innoculating "little girls" against sexually transmitted diseases! If we do that then little girls won't be able to get sexually transmitted diseases anymore! And what kind of depraved individual doesn't want little girls to get sexually transmitted diseases?

Bachmann missed a valuable opportunity to stop digging the hole she's in. On the plus side at least she's eliminated any possibility of being President.

Palladian said...

"Put a soldier on TV, I want to hear about soldier stuff. Not about whether the soldier likes to fondle his mates or do it doggy-style or whatever."

Oh yeah? Then shut the fuck up about your wife or girlfriend. Until I don't hear anything about any soldier's sexual partners or sex-produced offspring, I don't want to hear you pathetic bitches whining about hearing that an honorable soldier is gay.

Palladian said...

And Andy R., straighten your hat, for fuck's sake!

Freder Frederson said...

If the U.S. wants to define its rules such that babies born on its soil are only U.S. citizens if one or both of its parents are U.S. citizens, or one or both of its parents were born on U.S. soil, or some combination thereof, or whatever, it could.

Not without a constitutional amendment, it couldn't. The 14th amendment states:"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Illegal aliens are still subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S., so children born in the U.S. of illegal alien parents are U.S. citizens. Children of diplomatic personnel are currently probably the only class of U.S. born that are not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.

Psychedelic George said...

"Yellow seems to be a compromise, a middle way, between positive and negative."

It's also associated with sunshine and positive thinking.

So says a website about color.

I remember red ties were in for men in the mid-1980s. Red is the color of power and prestige.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Regarding the booing- http://www.sunshinestatesarah.com/2011/09/truth-about-booing-at-debate.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SunshineStateSarah+%28Sunshine+State+Sarah%29

This witness says that it was only one or two people, and gives a nifty explanation of how sound waves travel to make it sound like more.

- Lyssa

jr565 said...

Andy R. Wrote:
You should ask the people on that stage who want to make it their business by kicking any soldier out of the army that they find out is gay.


what's your take on the military making it their business to kick people out of the military they find out are cheating on their spouse?
Should the military be so draconian about private behavior and actually destroy people's careers over such behavior? Because I haven't heard you or any others decrying the military's policies on other conduct unbecoming examples.

Why couldn't a gay person serve in the military without their gayness becoming an issue? Just do your job and shut up about who you're screwing. Similarly, if you,re cheating on your spouse, and want to continue serving, don't bring your mistress on base, or blabbering about how much sex you get from your lover.
In both cases, how people identify, a d where people put their dicks is actually a distraction from their ability to serve.

edutcher said...

Palladian said...

"Put a soldier on TV, I want to hear about soldier stuff. Not about whether the soldier likes to fondle his mates or do it doggy-style or whatever."

Oh yeah? Then shut the fuck up about your wife or girlfriend. Until I don't hear anything about any soldier's sexual partners or sex-produced offspring, I don't want to hear you pathetic bitches whining about hearing that an honorable soldier is gay.


That's the whole point. Heterosexual soldiers don't go around inundating the rest of the population with their exploits, proclivities, perversions, etc.

The homosexual rights crowd can't seem to live without it. And not only are heterosexuals required to approve and accept, we must be overjoyed at it, celebrate it, and do everything we can to promote it.

As I said before, it was all about him.

PS Do I detect someone with breeder issues?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

That's the whole point. Heterosexual soldiers don't go around inundating the rest of the population with their exploits, proclivities, perversions, etc.

If they're giving you explicit details, sure, that's a problem (from a gay or straight). But if you say "What did you do this weekend" and the answer is, "I saw that new movie with my boyfriend," is that really too much for you to handle? Do you not know at least a little bit (as in, their names and sex) about the significant others of the people that you work with, and don't they of yours? Wouldn't it be a little bit awkward if you had to keep secret from your co-workers the mere existance of your wife?

michaele said...

I went into the debate with a leaning towards Perry because, as the performances rubbed into my face, superficial reasons. I liked the "cut of his jib"...he stands tall, has a affability vibe but I now acknowledge that's not enough. He just doesn't seem like he has done the work needed to be prepared for debate questions even the ones he should know he's going to have to deal with. I wish Romney didn't seem over caffeinated with that Eddie Haskell smarmy thing going on but maybe one on one against Obama that will quiet down. As it stands now, Romney will probably get my vote in the primary. I hope it is a Romney-Rubio ticket.

chickenlittle said...

Missed the debate. Did economics come up at all last night or is it still all social issues?

Roger J. said...

Chicken--also missed the "debate" glad some people cared enough to comment on it--My lady friend and I went to see "contagion"---its really good and very accurately describes what could happen in the event of a biological event--Even had the uniforms of the USPHS accurate--see it

Fred4Pres said...

I watched Have Gun Will Travel last night. Paladin saved a beautiful ranch lady from being cheated and defrauded by her foreman who was selling off the stock and buying up loans on the ranch. There was a suggestion of romantic involvement, but like most 50s shows it was hint heavily at it but don't show or tell.

Sixty Grit said...

AA wrote "But any one of these people would be better than what we've got in Obama."

Is this the "when Obama lost me" moment?

Roger J. said...

60 grit--I dont think it likey that the good professor will ever say she chose poorly--academicians, and esp lawyers, never admit to error

machine said...

I was worried about Obama losing in 2012...but these "debates" have cheered me up considerably.

Run Sarah Run!

Kirby Olson said...

The folksy dog poop jobs joke was what got Reagan elected. Let's not forget real people vote andthey want to connect with the president.

Obama had that in 2008, but now most realize that he actually hates America and hates AMericans, and especially hates Jewish people. He also hates the police, and anyone who is making money, or is in America legally.

He especially hates the business community because they are a rival to state power.

I've seen Johnson before and he likes people, and has the common touch. He's not an elitist who hates everybody or is indifferent to everybody like Obama.

I got the sense that his mother thought they were special people and were different from and better than other people. That's how Obama feels to me.

Johnson just plain likes everybody.

Fred4Pres said...

Herman Cain won the debate?

Mick said...

Not one Candidate here is a real leader. ALL are complicit in the Treason of allowing an ineligible non natural born Citizen Usurp the Presidency. One of them will surely double down on that treason and choose Marco Rubio as VP candidate (not eligible-- parents were Cuban legal resident aliens when Rubio was born). Even the crazy Uncle R. Paul, the supposed "Constitutionalist" is in on the treason.

Fred4Pres said...

Mick, you are losing me with Marco Rubio dissing.

machine said...

Thanks Mick...you cheered me up even more...

bagoh20 said...

"Cain is revealed as a survivor of liver and colon cancer, and he speaks passionately against Obamacare, which would, he believes, have killed him, with the delays of bureaucracy."

I went through the same thing and as Cain, and afterward did some research to see how it would have gone under European style heath care and came to the conclusion that I would have died 5 years ago. When time is important, and you need things a little out of the mainstream, you better be in the U.S. with or without insurance.

Obamacare as it is right now would not have been a problem except that my premiums would be much higher, but eventually Obamacare is planned to cause the same problems as the European system: less freedom, longer waits, less options, higher costs.

jr565 said...

Mick,
That ship has sailed and you're not on it. So stop bitching about the fact that you missed the ship and het on board the next one.
And you're wrong anyway. So why continue wasting your(and our) time chasing rabbits down the rabbit hole you're not going to catch. When instead you can worry about making sure Obama doesn't serve four more years

David Rogers said...

Full disclosure: I am a Republican attorney suing the state of Texas over Governor Perry's illegal subsidy program for illegal aliens.

It's not just in-state tuition. It's a lot worse than that.

Details follow.

Out of the 50 active governors in the US, Perry is the worst. Of all the candidates, he is the furthest-left on that issue.

Rick Perry signed, and has aggressively defended, a law (HB 1403, 2001 legislative session) (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=77R&Bill=HB1403) that gives $20,000 to every illegal alien that wants the money.

Then Perry bragged about it. (http://governor.state.tx.us/news/speech/10688/) " We must say to every Texas child learning in a Texas classroom, 'we don’t care where you come from, but where you are going, and we are going to do everything we can to help you get there.' And that vision must include the children of undocumented workers. That’s why Texas took the national lead in allowing such deserving young minds to attend a Texas college at a resident rate."

But the Texas law does more than that. It gives “Texas Grant” money ($20,000 per illegal alien, at $5,000 a year) to actual illegal aliens (not just "children of" illegal aliens, who as citizens would presumably be eligible for normal benefits), on top of in-state tuition rates (which are below the national average). (http://www.harlingen.tstc.edu/FinancialAid/hbill1403.aspx , http://www.southplainscollege.edu/information-for/future-spc-students/financial-aid/hb1403.php). Additionally, other Texas taxpayer-funded grant programs are available to illegal aliens, including the Texas Equalization Grant program, which is designed to pay the difference between private and public university tuition for private-school attendees who are Texas residents, and Texas state-taxpayer-funded student loans.

Only one other state (New Mexico) has a similar law (signed by Clintonista Bill Richardson).

When questions were raised about the implementation of the 2001 law, Perry signed another in 2005 that doubled-down. (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History.aspx?LegSess=79R&Bill=SB1528) (http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/undocumented.pdf , p.5)

Since then, in the face of Republican attempts to reform or repeal the law in the 2007, 2009, and 2011 legislative sessions, Perry has staunchly defended this law.

Faced with criticism of the law during the 2010 election campaign, Perry mis-stated the facts, and was busted for it. (http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2010/feb/14/rick-perry/perry-says-tea-checks-whether-undocumented-student/)
(http://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/headlines/20100314-Number-of-illegal-immigrants-getting-in-9925.ece)

Give this long record of repeated endorsement of subsidizing illegal aliens to a degree that no other state has matched, while others who are normally to his left (Romney, Schwarzenegger) vetoed much milder in-state tuition bills, I cannot in good conscience support Rick Perry.

If a man will take $20,000 from the pockets of citizen-taxpayers and hand it to illegal aliens, there is no end to the mischief he will do.

No thanks.

sorepaw said...

Fox (seemingly) likes Romney; setting traps for Perry.

Fox News is not as far to the right as everyone likes to imagine.

Still mostly in the environmentalist tank.

Lots of ties to the old Republican Establishment. Watch Chris Wallace on his Sunday show. I think he does a pretty good job, but his questions regularly show that he's an Inside the Beltway kind of guy.

I'm sure a lot of them want Romney to get the nomination.

David Rogers said...

"You can't take illegals benefits away, see various Federal Court decisions."

That's just uninformed nonsense. The state of Texas (thank you, Rick Perry) gives TWO very large benefits to illegal aliens that almost no other states gives.

(1) ALL medical care. (Federal law requires only emergency care.)

(2) $20,000+ in grant$ to every illegal alien for school, IN ADDITION to taxpayer-subsidized loans AND in-state tuition.

So put that in your federal-court-mandated dogma pipe and smoke it.

And remember that RICK PERRY wants to take YOUR taxes and spend them on ILLEGAL aliens.

Hey--pop quiz: which state had the largest influx of illegal aliens in the last ten years? (You can have 49 guesses--and if the guess isn't TEXAS, it doesn't count.)

sorepaw said...

Not many commenters commenting here at all, and the ratio of commenters to comments is way off.

It's way too early in the cycle, September 2011 when the election's in November 2012.

And I don't know how others here feel about them, but I've never liked fake debates that are really exchanges of sound bites. I rarely watch them, even after there are nominees.

Mick said...

Fred4Pres said...
"Mick, you are losing me with Marco Rubio dissing".



Really? so what other parts of the Constitution are you willing to ignore. Rubio is as ineligible as Obama. His father (and mother) were not US Citizens when Marco was born-- thus not natural born, and not eligible.

Mick said...

jr565 said...
"Mick,
That ship has sailed and you're not on it. So stop bitching about the fact that you missed the ship and het on board the next one.
And you're wrong anyway. So why continue wasting your(and our) time chasing rabbits down the rabbit hole you're not going to catch. When instead you can worry about making sure Obama doesn't serve four more years"




That ship is about to redock, when Obama must run as a "Candidate" again. There are millions aware of his ineligibility, and will challenge him in many states. I think he unfortunately may not run, wishing to try and preserve his negative precedent. What other parts of the Constitution are you willing to ignore?

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