September 10, 2011

Laughing at Obama's speech was "more insulting than Joe Wilson's 'you lie.'"

More insulting... and more potent...

"Rules for Radicals":
Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

84 comments:

Shouting Thomas said...

Every time Obama did his You must pass this bill! bit, I was reminded of Cartman:

You must respect my authori-tay!

The speech was an act of desperation. It only underlined the truth... Obama doesn't have a clue what to do!

One of the Democratic complaints about the Republicans has been: You want Obama to fail! You want him to be a one term president!

Well, duh! They're Republicans. The opposition. They're supposed to want him to be a one term president. Why the whining about this?

Answer... we're all supposed to be invested in his success because he's black. So, Republicans aren't supposed to do what the opposition always does.

The left imagined Obama to be brilliant. The left imagined Obama to be a compelling orator who could vanquish reality with a great speech.

That illusion has collapsed. You can see how this has made Obama desperate. He's waving his magic wand and issuing the usual incantations and... nothing!

You must respect my authori-tay!

Steve Austin said...

Obama has fallen and he can't get up.

His only chance is to do a major conservative pivot.

Could he anything short of repealing Obamacare.

Repeal Dodd Frank and Sarbanes Oxley and ask to reinstate Glass Steagal as a trade off.

Maybe drill baby drill and remove his barrier to coal and nuclear plants.

Propose a Huntsman type simple tax system which would be pretty popular with a lot people.

But instead he doubles down on his losing stimulus strategy.

pm317 said...

Republicans can't become cocky nor complacent because Obama may pull a Truman.. Watch this video from 1948 convention.

But I did like their snickering reaction to Obama's speech. It is a bit passive aggressive but when he gets a pass on all his gaffes and media protects him over everything, you have to up your antics to get noticed.

EDH said...

Seems to me I remember Bill Clinton retorting "You Laugh" or "Don't Laugh" during one of his State of the Union speeches.

Shouting Thomas said...

PBS alters transcript to hide Obama gaffe.

Levi Starks said...

Well I was laughing out loud while listening to the speech on NPR at work. Of course I work in a noisy industrial environment, and I doubt that anyone noticed, so It probably wasn't insulting. But really, if I hear something that is genuinely funny I laugh. If he was unaware that he was jumping the shark tank then he is seriously out of touch, and his handlers have a responsibility to reel him in a bit.

Levi Starks said...

and yes I saw the piece about NPR altering the speech transcript. Probably done by an underling, and I can see that it might be corrected, but the original altered transcript is the one we will see quoted by the left from here on out.

Ambrose said...

It is more insulting because it's moving backwards on the Ghandi scale. Remember the quote:

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

Well, how about: First Joe Wilson calls you a liar, then they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then you lose

Simon said...

Steve Austin said...
"Obama has fallen and he can't get up. His only chance is to do a major conservative pivot."

Right! His only chance is to push the left into getting off their asses and fielding a primary candidate against him instead of just whining about him. That worked out well for Carter, right?

Obama's best chance for reelection is to look like he's a sensible guy trying to do something, paint the GOP as obstructing his agenda, and spend a billion dollars turning our nominee into the fright of the night in the mind of independents. Then he wins if a majority of independents buy the narrative that even though the economy is spluttering, he's trying to fix it but those evil rethuglicans won't let him and by the way their guy will take away your social security donchaknow? The one thing that he can't afford to do is demoralize or even split his own party.

Shouting Thomas said...

Of course, the underlying complaint here is that you're a racist if you insult and ridicule the president!

One of the central strategies of Obama's re-election campaign: You are a racist if you don't vote for Obama!

I can remember like it was yesterday when it was a good thing to insult and ridicule the president.

In Woodstock, Bush was hung in effigy, pissed and shit on, accused of being the mastermind of 9/11, ridiculed as a moron... etc.

You get the point.

But, you're a racist who disrespects the president if you insult or ridicule Obama.

A Facebook friend posted, not long ago, that criticism of Obama's vacations proved that Republicans are racists.

I pointed out to her that leftists not only criticized Bush's vacations, but that they tried to disrupt them by camping out and protesting at his ranch. So, where's the racism?

To no avail...

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Shouting

Yes...but I think the correct pronunciation is 'Au-thor-i-TAH'!

Maybe if Zero just had Sharpton's bullhorn, we would see the wisdom of his 'plan' (plan, being whatever he tells someone to do).

Raising the volume when repeating the same tome ad nauseum would do the trick in the world of the leftist.

Because, we JUST DON'T GET IT.

roesch-voltaire said...

Nothing racist here: It’s a busy Monday, as one Republican official already got busted doing racist anti-Michelle Obama stuff on the Facebook, and now we’re learning about some super-funny racist emails sent out by a Tennessee GOP legislative staffer for Republican state senator Diane Black. Thanks to Wonkette for the twist of humor.

Kirby Olson said...

Obama is a mindless ideologue, but he can still be dangerous. His rhetoric catches fire from time to time, and all the idiots combust. Obama and Osama are very similar in some ways.

Shouting Thomas said...

r_v got the memo.

So, tell us, comrade, the proper limits for ridiculing and insulting the president.

I'm assuming that the left's treatment of Bush is the standard.

You got a complaint with that?

And, before you get too carried away with this racism shit... since you're a white liberal... I've got to ask this question?

Do you actually associate with any blacks?

TWM said...

Mock him and mock him hard for he truly has no clothes now, and more and more people are joining in the laughter.

PaulV said...

Obama is a poor man's Chauncey Gardiner.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@roachy

Yeah and simply disagreeing with his stupid leftist ideas are racism as well. Yawn.

Do you have any new idiotic leftist memes we can consider?

Shouting Thomas said...

I'm really into Dying Fetus today, r_v, so here's the appropriate answer to an underhanded, backstabbing scoundrel like you:

Your Treachery Will Die With You

Full lyrics here for those so inclined.

You are so awful, r_v, that you are driving me to consider joining a death metal band.

Big Mike said...

@Roesch, will there ever come a point where lefties like you catch up to the rest of us on race relations?

You see the rest of us believe that African-Americans should be judged by the content of their character, as Martin Luther King, Jr., demanded, and not the color of their skin. But what comes across to me is that you and other lefties really do believe that African-American are dumber than whites, Asians, and Latinos, and that all of us need to make allowances for the poor dears.

And we won't. We've gone way beyond that, and we're getting impatient waiting for you to catch up to the rest of us.

Phil 3:14 said...

Nothing racist here: It’s a busy Monday, as one Republican...

Shorter version:

The President is black; you're a racist.

RV works hard to squeeze the last drop of meaning from the word

PS Herman Cain is NOT black.

DADvocate said...

WLW radio repeatedly played a condensed version of Obama's speech. It was just all the "pass this bill" clips. Pretty hilarious.

I guess we have to pass it to see what's in it.

edutcher said...

You can laugh or you can cry and it hurts a lot less if you laugh.

And GodZero political calculations are anything but subtle.

Shouting Thomas said...

PBS alters transcript to hide Obama gaffe.

Hate to rain on your parade, but the transcript reflects the speech as written.

Zero ad-libbed the Lincoln line.

Which makes the whole bit even more delightful.

Ann Althouse said...

It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

Ridicule can be turned back on the attacker, but the original target had best be very quick-witted and thick-skinned.

Beevalo Bill said...

What is not funny is that Obama is taking poorly conceived and ill-defined policy positions to "position" himself as the "adult" (for political gain at our expense).

Obama's political gambit is cynical and insulting. Snickering is probably the most benign response warranted under the circumstances. And it is the least of the shame that he should endure for underestimating the intelligence, resilience, and the potential of the American people.

The sooner we wean ourselves from dependence on government largesse fueled by deficit spending, the sooner we can rebound

DADvocate said...

Condensed version:

a plan that you should pass right away.
You should pass this jobs plan right away.
Pass this jobs bill -- pass this jobs bill,
Pass this jobs bill,
You should pass it right away.
Pass this jobs bill,
You should pass it right away.
Pass this jobs bill,
Pass this bill,
Pass this jobs bill,
Pass this bill,
Pass this jobs bill,
pass it again -- right away.
Pass this jobs bill,
pass this bill right away.
pass this jobs plan
You should pass it.

Fred4Pres said...

Yes it is.

AJ Lynch said...

You must respect my athawworitayyy! [that is how it is pronounced]

jacksonjay said...

His clueless, repetitious and failed policy proposals are laughable! Case closed! He rants "pass this bill", but there is no bill! Larry the
Cable Guy says, "I don't care who u r dat dere is funny!"

Shouting Thomas said...

Translation of r_v's remarks:

I'm not a racist because I accused you of being a racist first!

DADvocate said...

now we’re learning about some super-funny racist emails sent out by a Tennessee GOP legislative staffer for Republican state senator Diane Black.

That happened two years ago and you're just finding out about it? Haven't you been attending current events class? How does that relate to this? It doesn't. But, you have no foundation to stand on, so it's back to the old liberal standby, yell "Racist!!"

Idiot!!

AlphaLiberal said...

Read this post by Matt Taibbi this morning and it made me think of lurching Althousiania.

Apocalyptic GOP Is Dragging Us Into a Civil War

A lot of people around the country seem to feel similarly.

The GOP wants complete control, no Presidents bu GOP Presidents, no policies but GOP policies, no voice for the non-GOP parts of the country.

Althouse contributes to the strife.

DADvocate said...

The GOP wants complete control, no Presidents bu GOP Presidents, no policies but GOP policies, no voice for the non-GOP parts of the country.

You're another friggin idiot. Do you think the Democrats want Republican presidents, policies, etc? Get real.

ErnieG said...

It wouldn't work in the House Chamber, but enjoying a drink at home to celebrate a laugh line would be more practical. Just a sip, though, not a whole shot. You don't want to be knee-walking drunk by the end of the speech.

Shouting Thomas said...

From Tiabbi's article:

In particular, the insane decision to turn the once-routine procedure of raising the debt ceiling (Lofgren notes it was done 87 times since WWII) into a political crisis revealed that the GOP party mainstream had sunk to the level of terrorism – holding our economic system hostage in exchange for political concessions.

This was a form of violence...


Yes, opposing a piece of legislation in Congress is a form of violence.

So, we can dismiss Taibbi and Omega as fucking liars.

Shouting Thomas said...

And, you've got to wonder about the Democrats and their attempt to transform opposing a piece of legislation in Congress into an act of violence.

This is the sort of thing people do when they're planning on using violence, and looking for a rationale for doing so.

Paddy O said...

Radicalizing the motivation of the opposition is one of the first steps to instituting authoritarian control.

So, of course, Republicans are painted as being dangerous, nefarious, evil folks. They have to be made into a moral enemy in order to initiate active repression.

In other words, AL, you're doing exactly what people in history have done whenever they seek violent ways to take over the government to repress the masses.

Demonizing the enemy is a very bad symptom. Disagree, by all means, but stay away from that dark side of demonizing.

Phil 3:14 said...

And AL elevates the debate by quoting The Rolling Stone (man)

Can we go back to just being racists?

PETER V. BELLA said...

There is no bill or act. There never was. Where is the text? Obama showed up empty handed, just like he did during the debt/deficit negotiations. He has no plans.

His speech was nothing but pure comedy. People are supposed to laugh at comedy.

Alex said...

It’s a busy Monday, as one Republican official already got busted doing racist anti-Michelle Obama stuff on the Facebook, and now we’re learning about some super-funny racist emails sent out by a Tennessee GOP legislative staffer for Republican state senator Diane Black.

That's from 2009 idiot, and it had no impact then. Keep trying and say hello to tar baby!

c71ff said...

It takes a lot to laugh. It takes a train to cry.

SunnyJ said...

Personally I found Obama's relentless gimmicky use of "pass the bill right away" to be mocking MLK's style...something you'd see on SNL actually.

What I'm wondering is what's up with the editing out of the union violence in Washington State, no arrests by the police, yet?, and making the connection between Hoffa's "we're your army and ready to march" comments? No MSM covering this at all, O'Reilly on FOX did, but othewise little on their news programs. Why the silence? You have 100's of organized union members attacking and taking guards hostage, destroying property, defying judges order to cease and desist and no one makes the connection to Hoffa's words and Obama's refusal to denounce. Hmmmm

AlphaLiberal said...

So, the Republicans openly threatened to allow the full faith and credit of the US government to go into default. They brought us to the brink and precipitated huge sell offs in the market and reduced consumer confidence and investment.

And you guys claim that is only routine opposition to a bill?

What they did was highly unusual and showed how Republicans openly want to destroy government to empower their corporate patrons.

It's the oligarchy on the move. We've not seen anything like this.

EDH said...

Found it.

Compare how Clinton dealt with derisive laugher at his first State of the Union Speech in 1993.

This budget plan, by contrast, will by 1997 cut $140 billion in that year alone from the deficit, a real spending cut, a real revenue increase, a real deficit reduction, using the independent numbers of the Congressional Budget Office. [Laughter] Well, you can laugh, my fellow Republicans, but I'll point out that the Congressional Budget Office was normally more conservative in what was going to happen and closer to right than previous Presidents have been.

mesquito said...

Hey Alpha:

Were Obama, Biden, Clinton and Reid reckless when they voted against raising the debt ceiling?

Carol_Herman said...

Hey! Obama came and gave a speech. He said it was worth $500-billion-dollars. AND, HE GOT IT!

You know, the only way you can come to money like this is if you win the lottery!

Make fun all you want.

Obama is like Bob Hope. Every time Bob Hope came on stage his jokes weren't particularly funny. But the audience loved its familiarity.

Obama knows how to campaign!

And, telling people he's gonna lose ... because you're not voting for him ... doesn't change the dynamics of this race.

Will some democraps run against him? Yes.

But where I'd look to see if there's gonna be any changes ... would be to see if anyone can convince Pelosi to get lost. In case you haven't noticed, she really doesn't get face time.

Do you have to be Sherlock Holmes to take in the significance of silence?

Mike K said...

What they did was highly unusual and showed how Republicans openly want to destroy government to empower their corporate patrons.

You mean corporate patrons like Immelt who sat with the First Lady ? Or the guy who owned Solyndra and was a big Obama donor and bundler ?

The big business guys who are rent seeking are all on Obama's band wagon, or were. Small business supports Republicans.

Synova said...

It takes two sides to play chicken.

How this gets to be the Republicans fault when both sides refuse to budge is easy enough to understand.

We all understand, we really do, that it was the moral responsibility of the Republicans to immediately abandon their constituent's demands that we reduce the debt instead of merely raise the debt and in the end the reason our credit rating got lowered was because we still held too much debt.

Joanna said...

Shouting Thomas said...
I'm assuming that the left's treatment of Bush is the standard.


No, no. The left likes to _set_ the standard. (Example: civility.) They have no interest in being held to their own standard. That would be silly.

Synova said...
We all understand, we really do, that it was the moral responsibility of the Republicans...


Well, yeah. I mean, would you expect the other side of the aisle to consider moral responsibilities?

JSF said...

Hey Alpha!

Our Blogress was threatened by words and actions by the Left.

Where were you to decry the incivility?

Oh, right! You don't care about people on the other side of the Political divide!

Carry on hack.

sorepaw said...
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sorepaw said...
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Sue D'Nhym said...

Then he wins if a majority of independents buy the narrative that even though the economy is spluttering, he's trying to fix it but those evil rethuglicans won't let him and by the way their guy will take away your social security donchaknow?

Choosing a strategy that involves the assumption that independents are dupes would be beyond delusional. In today's political climate, it would be suicidal, which is why Obama and the current crop of Democrats will choose it.

The fact that President Clinton chose differently and won re-election must be ignored. And it will be.

Sue D'Nhym said...

roesch-voltaire, keep hope alive!

What a joke the left has become.

A. Shmendrik said...

You gotta give Saul a point there. Ridicule is one of the best ways of destroying your opponent. Think of the 2nd debate between Reagan and Mondale in 1984. The response on the question of age was so good, it had Mondale laughing (as if he was saying "Clearly I am a joke, and I don't belong on the stage with this guy".) A great deal of Rush Limbaugh's brilliance is his ridicule of opponents and critics. Everyone has a smile on their face and the opponent/critic is left a piece of toast. It is beautiful. I'm just surprised it its not used more often in modern politics.

Kirby Olson said...

It's apparently the Brent Spence bridge that he was talking about. It connects Boehner's Ohio with McConnel's Kentucky, in an apparent jab at both.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3ll4YUwzFP-ypRbtQCwTezokksA?docId=26b6fda4f69f4f849af2e43c1465ff60

jimspice said...

When judging politicians, I see two broad criteria against which to draw conclusions; policy positions, and personal demeanor. Of course, left and right would not agree on the former, but I would hope the latter would produce some agreement. To chortle snidely at the remarks of a sitting president during an open session of Congress is behavior I would consider rude and boorish no matter the partisan stripe of the offender. For conservatives not to disparage this behavior, in turn, shows more about their own standards of honor than it says anything about the candidate. His supporters should be ashamed of Congressman Ryan.

garage mahal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

Taibbi:
But for the new GOP, compromise of any kind defeats their central purpose, which is political totale krieg. This party's entire reason for being is conflict and aggression. There is no underlying patriotic instinct to find middle ground with the rest of us, because the party doesn't have a vision for society that includes anyone outside the tent.

Couldn't describe modern conservatism any better. Apocalyptic cult indeed.

Synova said...

Garage, when you can show where anyone at all is attempting, or has attempted, to find middle ground with the Tea Party, you might have a point.

Otherwise, it's just liking when someone blames the other guy in your favor.

Synova said...

jimspice, seriously!

At what point have we ever, as a nation, has this idea that we were supposed to be respectful of the President?

And what hairs are you splitting? That it's the noble and solemn houses of congress and they're supposed to never be rude *in the building* but when the multitude of dem congresspersons are flagrantly rude to the president that they did it someplace else? Or maybe it's the rudeness to his face? Is it rude to be rude in the same room with the president and therefore being outrageous behind his back is *not* rude?

What?

garage mahal said...

@Synova
There is not much middle ground to be found with a cult hellbent on taking a wrecking ball at government and all the norms and institutions in our society.

geokstr said...

jimspice said...
To chortle snidely at the remarks of a sitting president during an open session of Congress is behavior I would consider rude and boorish no matter the partisan stripe of the offender. For conservatives not to disparage this behavior, in turn, shows more about their own standards of honor than it says anything about the candidate. His supporters should be ashamed of Congressman Ryan.


You forget, conveniently, that Bush was booed at the State of the Union speech by Democrats, which is just hunky-dory with you because you have no standards, morals or ethics, thus no sense of shame either.

Obama said in front of Congress that his health care bill would not cover illegal aliens. And when Joe Wilson yelled out "You lie", he was eviscerated by the left.

But looky here, there's a new regulation in ObamaCare that says everybody gets covered and no one can be asked about their immigration status.

So, he did flat-out lie. It was inevitable, his lips were moving.

Alex said...

Couldn't describe modern conservatism any better. Apocalyptic cult indeed.

You're garbage, garbage. How can you generalize about 50 million people like that?

Phil 3:14 said...

Couldn't describe modern conservatism any better. Apocalyptic cult indeed.

Garage, you live in Wisconsin. You have seen daily protests; said protesters taking over the Capitol, violent rhetoric, shouting down a 14 year old speaker. You've seen legislators run away and refuse to fulfill their responsibilities. You've seen protesters in their aim to shout down the governor disrupt a ceremony honoring the developmentally delayed. You've seen all of that and more, and you have the audacity to say this.

Have you no shame sir.

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quaestor said...

Garbage mahal and Taibbi conveniently forget that when Democrats held the reins of power there was no room for Republican concerns vis the stimulus or Obama-care.

It's old Left wing bromide in action once again. What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine as well.

Quaestor said...

Shouting Thomas wrote:
So, we can dismiss Taibbi and Omega as fucking liars.

I disagree. Liars they may be, but that's giving them far too much credit. Alpha Liberal and his ilk are merely insignificant. Three years ago he became an Obama camp follower hoping to glean a few scraps of meaning to attach to his worthless life. Now that the Obama star has fallen to earth AlphaLib is in a blind panic. He's liable to say or do anything that might salvage something from the wreckage that passes for intellect on the Left

geokstr said...

garage mahal said...
"Taibbi:
But for the new GOP, compromise of any kind defeats their central purpose, which is political totale krieg. This party's entire reason for being is conflict and aggression. There is no underlying patriotic instinct to find middle ground with the rest of us, because the party doesn't have a vision for society that includes anyone outside the tent."

Couldn't describe modern conservatism any better. Apocalyptic cult indeed.


It's this "compromising" with the left crap for the last 50 years that's gotten in this fiscal nightmare. Since actual conservatives had no power until the Tea Parties, the elected Republicans have always been the equivalent of RINOs and to compromise they had to move left. The country was dragged inexorably to the left because of this.

It reminds me of what one of the labor scions said a long time ago - "Negotiating is a give and take process. You give, and we take."

Why don't "Progressives" ever have to "compromise" and do things like reduce actual expenditures (not budget projections), or cut the size of existing government. Then the "compromising" would have actually been done in both directions. Instead, Obama has already folded the first trillion in failed stimulus into every future year's budget, and now he wants even more failed stimulus.

Now half the stuff the government does would have been considered Marxist by those in the 1950's.

There is no room left to compromise anymore. Going off the fiscal cliff in slow motion still gets you to the bottom just as quickly once gravity takes hold.

The worldview and mindsets of the two sides are now so far apart that there can no longer even be rational discussion between them anymore, let alone "compromise".

I see lots of violence coming, and soon. Obama and the unions and the Black Caucus have already been stoking up the racial hatred and class warfare.

garage mahal said...

Phil
Walker called the National Guard to his side as he announced a scorched earth assault on the state that nobody knew was coming. Wisconsinites were protesting against that ripping to shreads agenda on public ed, unions, and dozens of public
policies that took decades to establish. What the fuck are fighting and dying for anyway?
What are we protecting back home? The GOP today wants to destroy all of it. In my view Wisconsin was much too polite about it.

Maguro said...

Shorter garage: "Either you're with us or you're against us".

Just his special way of commemorating 9/11.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

So what do you all think the Republicans will do or should do?

My guess is they will alter O's plan here and there, but eventually pass it wih O's name still firmly attached.

These are the possibilities:

(1)They pass the bill.
a. Things get better
b. Things get worse

(2)They don't pass the bill.
a. Things get better
b. Things get worse

(1)a. is not likely, but if it happens, Republicans will get some credit. (1)b. is, I feel the most likely scenario. If it happens, it was Obama's plan and he's a three-time loser. (2)a. is not likely given O's policies, but if it happens, O gets credit just for being president. (2)b. would be political disaster for Republicans. They will not risk this.

DADvocate said...

There is not much middle ground to be found with a cult hellbent on taking a wrecking ball at government and all the norms and institutions in our society.

Damn. You sound like Spiro Agnew, great defender of the establishment.

Dad29 said...

the proper limits for ridiculing and insulting the president.

SCOAMF, no more than 10x/day, never shouted.

DADvocate said...

Plus, your entire statement is a lie, but there's nothing new about that.

Down with Obama!!!

Synova said...

"@Synova
There is not much middle ground to be found with a cult hellbent on taking a wrecking ball at government and all the norms and institutions in our society.
"

Well said, garage.

Now explain why the Republicans or Tea Party are supposed to compromise with them.

Dad29 said...

His supporters should be ashamed of Congressman Ryan

As soon as Obama apologizes for his rude, condescending, and (frankly) ignorant attacks on Ryan at the health-care meetup....

So don't hold your breath, Jim.

Synova said...

It's all a matter of convenient definition.

I believe in compromise so everyone should be willing to compromise.

Unless it's a bad idea. In that case, scorched earth.

My ideas are good. Your ideas are bad.

So you should compromise with me, but I have no reason to compromise with you.

Add that to: There is no honest disagreement about what is good. Good ideas are obvious and the only reason not to hold them is if you're evil.

And we've got liberals in a nutshell.

Honestly. Am I even being hyperbolic? I don't think so.

Synova said...

Also, garage. You've failed to explain what Walker has done that is bad.

He has to make government fit within the available budget. Government at all levels needs the authority to make do with their available funds.

So they pushed back on unions a bit, since unions were dictating to government too much of what had to be spent and where it had to be spent.

It's pretty clear that in the private sector unions have a history of glorying in the destruction of businesses. The relationship is antagonistic, even when it's not destructive or the business deserves it. Us vs. them.

And somehow public employee unions are not in an antagonistic relationship to their employer, the government? They *are* the government? Pushing back on unions is destroying government?

How did that weird shift happen?

Decide. Are unions in an antagonistic relationship to their employers? Keep them in line. Protect the workers. Yes? They ought to be. Employees need to band together so they aren't taken advantage of or abused. So who is it they are the balance for? If they *are* the government, then they're just in charge of giving themselves better stuff with no check on them at all.

And unlike private companies, the government can't be put out of business.

And claiming that making union membership voluntary is anti-democracy or secret ballots are anti-democracy doesn't become more true by saying it louder.

Clyde said...

How about Obama doesn't insult our intelligence and we won't laugh at his speech?

Simon said...

sorepaw said...
"[AlphaLiberal said that 'the GOP wants complete control, no Presidents but GOP Presidents, no policies but GOP policies, no voice for the non-GOP parts of the country.'] Pure projection."

No it isn't. I do want that—not "a one-party dictatorship," of course, but certainly one-party dominance. Doesn't any rational person want their views to prevail? If I didn't think my policy views were right, I'd change them. What kind of idiot deliberately supports policies that she thinks are a net minus? Now, in the real world, Synova is right that we usually have to compromise, but there are two important caveats to that. First, in order to compromise, you first have to know what you believe. And second, compromise isn't a goal in itself. When their party wants to treat cancer with sugar pills and I want to treat it with chemo and radio, I'm willing to compromise and skip the radio if they have enough political power to make that a condition of treating at all, but in an ideal world, I'd hope that people who think sugar pills treat cancer wouldn't have sufficient power to force a compromise.

Do I want people like Alpha to have a voice? Well, I don't want to silence them, but I wouldn't be saddened if they shut up voluntarily.

sorepaw said...
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Synova said...

I'm not advocating compromise but I agree it's usually necessary.

What chaps me is this notion that compromise doesn't include the things you don't like or even strongly oppose.

It's like the misuse of the word "tolerance." "Tolerance" has come to mean "agree with me." That's just wrong.

And what garage is saying about compromise and who ought to do it is just the same. It's not compromise if it is agreement! You can only compromise if it's a disagreement, if you really do think that the other guy is *wrong*.

Conservatives have been complaining for a long time now that when a liberal says "compromise" they mean "do it my way." I think that's close to right. And garage strengthens that when he says you don't compromise with someone who is wrong. If you don't think they are wrong, then you're not compromising, you're agreeing.

sorepaw said...
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traditionalguy said...

Appeals to Alternate Reality is all that the Progs have left.

Nothing done by obama has been for our good.

Obama is a Marxist destroyer of our freedoms starting with our ownership of property and ending with a Secret Police administered State.

He has shown no qualms and no hesitation to destroy us and enslave us.

Fifth Columns often do win the wars by trickery. But pretending that Progs expect our traditional ways of life to continue after fifth columns take power is sad and stupid.

Obama needs his own Kings Mountain experience, and the GOP are the ones who must arrange for it to happen.

ws4whgfb said...

"Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon."

The only way good can overcome evil (ignorance) is not to defeat it but to convert it.

When you use ridicule you may anger the opposition but how does that help your cause? You should be trying to convince and convert them. When you insult them you only harden their stance. You will never convert the opposition leaders who are most probably only interested in personal power and not truth. However their followers can be converted if you take the right approach - respect them and their ideas but expalain why those ideas are wrong, harmful, counterproductive, or whatever.

Polarizing society buy using rehtoric, ridicule, sarcasm, and insults is not going to lead to a solution it is only going to make the problems worse.

Please, be part of the solution not part of the problem.