September 11, 2011

"Is it just me, or are the 9/11 commemorations oddly subdued?"

Asks Paul Krugman.

Is it odd to be subdued?

Having observed that we are subdued and that it is odd, Krugman applies the label: shame. We are ashamed of ourselves for what we did after the attacks.
Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue.
Te atrocity. Fix the typo, Mr. Krugman. People will think you haven't given enough weight to the atrocity. As long as we're looking for symptoms and making diagnoses, I might as well do it too.
The memory of 9/11 has been irrevocably poisoned; it has become an occasion for shame. And in its heart, the nation knows it.

I’m not going to allow comments on this post, for obvious reasons.
You don't want to see what you don't want to see, which is oddly at odds with your belief that Americans have a shameful way of blinding ourselves to the full range of what is happening and what we are doing.

162 comments:

Big Mike said...

I'm not ashamed. If Dr. Krugman, and the circles he moves in, are ashamed then they've left us. 9/11 didn't become a wedge issue because we left them.

Shouting Thomas said...

Te atrocity should have been a unifying event...

Translated:

Henceforth, you must agree with everything I say!

neomom said...

Krugman is ashamed. I am not.

Commemorations should be subdued. They have been subdued every year. It is called respect for the fallen.

Krugman is a smug idiot. And oh-so-brave as he turned off comments....

CEO-MMP said...

Paul "Enron" Krugman is a smug, smarmy little dickwad and I personally would like to kick him squarely in the ass.

hombre said...

'I'm not going to allow comments to prevent readers from calling "bullshit" where the call is desperately needed.'

What have we become when lunatics like Krugman and Sullivan are not greeted with peals of ridiculing laughter?

ndspinelli said...

Shouting Thomas,
The lemmings who read Paul "Weasel" Krugman agree w/ everthing he says. I'm one of the few that bust his balls.

AllenS said...

We need to have commemorations that bring out the hatred in us and calls for revenge. Anything less than that is subdued in my book.

glenn said...

Paulie needs attention. When my dog needs attention he steals paper out of the wastebasket and tears it up. Same deal.

JohnJEnright said...

Isn't it only natural to be subdued when commemorating the dead? We have avenged their deaths, I think, but it will not bring them back, and this is a sad anniversary.

harrogate said...

On the whole Krugman is right. It was not until after 9/11 that we started publishing polls indicating that the majority among us is pro-torture, for example.

And it became the justification for Iraq and Afghanistan, yay. While simultaneously cutting taxes dramatically. All the death, all the moneys poured out the sieve. All moves still defended ny people who now call themselves deficit hawks. Yes. Le us "reflect together." If we can avoid throwing up a little in our mouths.

BTW. Does anyone really rise up to deny Krugman's point about fake heroes cashing in? Is there *any* other way to explain Rudy Guliani, for example?

great unknown said...

A simple response: if you are ashamed, along with krugman and his ilk, then support the policies and candidates he favors. Because it is all part and parcel of a specific attitude towards America and what it stands for.

On the other hand, if shame is not part of your emotional tableau today [other than shame that we allowed certain political appointees and attitudes to cripple our ability to prevent this tragedy] then you should do everything in your power to extirpate this cabal from any position of power and influence.

Maguro said...

Should we be ashamed of bombing the crap out of Libya, too? Inquiring minds want to know.

campy said...

I wouldn't want to see comments on any topic from people who think Krugman's worth reading.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Americans should be subdued. The War on Terror has cost three to four trillion dollars with no end in sight. Eventually America will have problems borrowing money and then funding for our military will evaporate, as will our military.

9/11 was by no means a killing stroke, but it set us up for one.

Hagar said...

There have indeed been many embarrassing reactions to the events of 9-11-2001; not least those of The New York Times and Paul Krugman.

harrogate said...

"Should we be ashamed of bombing the crap out of Libya, too? Inquiring minds want to know."

Yes.

AllenS said...

And don't forget, little man obama is killing people in Yemen, also.

Firehand said...

Yes, because we should be ashamed we went after those who committed this attack, and those giving support to terrorists. Sure

Fuck you.

Oh, and the NYEffin'Times has pulled his post; apparently people weren't being properly accepting of Krugman's idiocy and shamefest. Very brave of them.

Dad29 said...

Is it just me, or is Krugman's hysteria (on this and the econ-topic) only a few steps away from ALL CAPS TYPING?

harrogate said...

No matter how many "Obama is bad, too!" comments y'all muster, it doesn't change the fact that what we are looking at is a ten year national trainwreck. And yes, that of course includes the years Obama has been POTUS. Socially, politically, economically, morally.

Not much to be proud of.

America's Politico said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Astro said...

I don't know why anyone wallows in the misery that is Paul Krugman.
I've never understood that old saying that misery loves company. The times when I'm feeling miserable, I want to be left alone. Reading anything by him is like covering yourself in mud.
WHY?

William said...

In Latin, te is the accusative case of you. This slips into his writings quite a bit. He seldom uses the accusative case of I although it is much more justified.

Johanna Lapp said...

For me, the World Trade Center existed for six days. The first time I ever saw the towers was September 5. It was the end of the line for the E train, my subway stop for the first five mornings of my freshman year of high school. New country, new city, new school. I came up the subway stairs, looked back over my shoulder, and saw the biggest object I had ever seen in my life. Looked again, and there were two of them.

There was a buy-one-get-one-free Pizza Hut commercial running on TV at the time, where the punchline was a salesman telling Japanese investors that if they would buy one tower, they'd get the second for free. So all five times I came to school, my first thought when I looked up was "Buy one, get one free."

I was in first-period American History when the first strike rattled our windows. It wasn't until the second plane hit that they swept the school, pointed us north and simply and calmly told us to walk. Look after one another and walk. Don't stop, don't turn back, don 't look back. Walk. The most important thing you can do to help is to keep walking.

ic said...

Te atrocity was a unifying issue, Bush's way to deal with te atrocity garnered over 70% approval. Krugman and his ilk drove a wedge and claimed Bush, after eight whole months in office should have prevented te atrocity, Bush's calmness and continued reading My Pet Goat showed he was not presidential, not fit for office.

10 whole years later, Krugman would prefer some hysterics to highlight the "gutsy" call to kill the guy hidden in a cave (metaphorically), and diverts attention away from the doubledip recession. The double dip caused mostly by the One listening to Krugman and his ilk. After three years, it's still Bush fault for a lousy economy.

Tobias said...

Paul Krugman, America's Heart Doctor. When it comes to America's Heart, I think we all deserve a second opinion before settling on diagnosis: irrevocably poisoned...an occasion for shame.

There's shame all right, but not where Krugman is looking.

edutcher said...

9/11 isn't the 4th of July. I remember Pearl Harbor Day being observed as a kid and people weren't exactly jumping for joy then, either.

This is a commemoration, not a celebration.

Seems the Lefties are too dense to get that.

And, since the Left has labored mightily to remove the word shame from our culture, it's interesting Krugman wants to trot it out now.

harrogate said...

On the whole Krugman is right. It was not until after 9/11 that we started publishing polls indicating that the majority among us is pro-torture, for example.

It was only after 9/11 that the Democrats got worried that they might not be able to defeat a popular war President and cooked up a phony claim of "torture" after the grand poobahs of the Party had signed onto said "torture" when they thought their lives might be at stake.

BTW. Does anyone really rise up to deny Krugman's point about fake heroes cashing in? Is there *any* other way to explain Rudy Guliani, for example?

Most of the people here, I'm guessing.

And Giuliani and Dubya did do heroic things that day and in the days afterward. That's why the Lefties, including the Gray Lady, felt obliged to slime them.

PS What has to put the icing on the cake is all those "Miss Me?" posters that have gotten popular the last 2 years.

PatCA said...

Actually, I could not be prouder of my country, Krugman.

Ten years after, even after several mistakes, we are safe, we have given a chance for freedom to a large swath of the Middle East, and our military continues to be the most passionate and professional in the world. Where do we find such men and such women?

America, that's where.

Tobias said...

Oh, maybe Krugman's fingers mistyped "Te atrocity" because his muscle memory kept wanting to type "Tea actrocity."

Scott said...

This is the most offensive thing I have read in the New York Times in my entire life. No wonder he turned off the comments. Fucking coward.

Krugman lecturing others on shame. That's rich.

His blog is titled "The Conscience of a Liberal." In other words, shallow, judgmental, insensitive, juvenile, retromingent, narcissistic, and downright ugly.

If Pinch had any balls, he would fire Krugman before Monday. But he won't because he doesn't.

AJ Lynch said...

Blogs enable foot in mouth. This is a very severe case. Perhaps some people should not have blogs.

Phil 3:14 said...

Mr. Krugman's shame is his problem.

Scott said...

You mean, his lack of shame.

Tim said...

"Having observed that we are subdued and that it is odd, Krugman applies the label: shame. We are ashamed of ourselves for what we did after the attacks."

The Left cannot own the narrative until they redefine it; ergo Krugman's contribution to redefining 9-11.

Krugman has a point, but not what he thinks it is. He and his ilk shame us, just as all the Democrats who authorized the war in Iraq were the first to push cut and run once easy victory was out of reach. They shame us as leaches of freedoms they won't earn in their own right, nor defend. But this shame is a small one, a tax in tolerating those who abuse our freedoms; they aren't worthy of the sacrifices made by the men and women in uniform for our freedoms, but the value of our freedoms are so great, the shame Krugman and his ilk bring us is almost imperceptible.

The Drill SGT said...

what neomom said...

The thread winner...

David said...

I'm ashamed that this nation has people like Krugman.

jacksonjay said...

Brian Harrison, CEO of Solyndra, is a "fake hero cashing in" on the "climate change" fear! Big stimulus money (halfa billion) led to bankruptcy and 1100 laid off employees. George Kaiser, the "Oklahoma billionaire" and Obama bundler is another "fake hero" in this Crony Capitalism tale of fear and greed! He is described as one of the leading private investors in Solyndra. I am anxiously awaiting the Dowd column on this saga. It is more likely that the Kansas Koch Bros will catch the eye of the NYT>

jacksonjay said...

Brian Harrison, CEO of Solyndra, is a "fake hero cashing in" on the "climate change" fear! Big stimulus money (halfa billion) led to bankruptcy and 1100 laid off employees. George Kaiser, the "Oklahoma billionaire" and Obama bundler is another "fake hero" in this Crony Capitalism tale of fear and greed! He is described as one of the leading private investors in Solyndra. I am anxiously awaiting the Dowd column on this saga. It is more likely that the Kansas Koch Bros will catch the eye of the NYT>

NYTNewYorker said...

Why this man holds any sway on any subject anymore, is a mystery to me.

vet66 said...

While the rest of us rallied around the flag and resolutely embraced the ideals that make this country great and a beacon to others, Krugman preaches 'shame.' The shame is his as he willfully fails to appreciate the heroism on that day and the acts of kindness and support that reminds us of what makes this country great in the face of resident evil.

He is smaller by comparison to those who gave their lives for others on that fateful day and continue that noble effort in the fight against radical islam around the globe. Krugman's real shame is a reflection of himself and his impotence. He is a shameful hollow excuse for a man.

Marshal said...

I'd like to ask Krugman how his younger self would feel knowing he would end up making a luxurious living convincing his fellow citizens to hate America?

Possible responses:
a) Wow, I guess money can corrupt anyone if it can corrupt me.
b) Cool. Who knew your life's ambition could be so rewarding?

Anyone else with a guess?

America's Politico said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott said...

Using the occasion of a day of mourning for a national tragedy as a springboard for curt little observations on politics is beyond offensive.

If Obama, who politicizes everything, can set that aside and stand on the same podium as Bush 43, then why can't Krugman? What a moral vacuum of a man.

AprilApple said...

It's shameful that a sham like Paul Krugman is taken seriously. He's a fool.

America's Politico said...

Krugman will help in the 2012 election. He has the power (NYT) and prestige (Nobel).

The NPR had a moving coverage on speeches by POTUS'S Obama and Clinton. 9/11 is also a story of Democrats.

James said...

Mark Steyn has the perfect response to Krugman: Let's Roll Over

DADvocate said...

Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue.

Krugman complains of 9/11 being used as a wedge issue and then uses it as a wedge issue. He denies the lefts enthusiasm for attacking al Queda. He ignores John Kerry's I was for it before I was against it. He shamelessly uses the anniversary of 9/11 to attack his political opponents.

Krugman crosses from idiocy into evil.

neomom said...

Seriously - Clinton's walls of separation from the various government investigating agencies and his refusal to take Bin Laden when Sudan offered him up....

I couldn't give a rat's hiney that leftist NPR is trying to turn him into a hero now.

And Obama and his mushy "Day of Service" crappola instead of Day of Rememberance...

Yeah - 9/11 is a Democrat story, but it isn't a good one.

Lawler Walken said...

Talk about cashing in. Krugman is getting far more attention from this than he would ever have otherwise. Of all the things to react to on this day I'm not really interested in thinking through Krugman's weird assessment of the 9/11 memorial events. I'm just putting it down to a guy looking to get attention and succeeding at it.

Big Mike said...

... it doesn't change the fact that what we are looking at is a ten year national trainwreck.

Ah! But is that really a fact? I date our national train wreck back to September 2008, and while both parties are to blame for that disaster, its seeds were clearly sown more by Democrats such as Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid, than by a president who failed to fight back hard enough when designated idiot spokesman Barney Frank fatuously suggested that Fannie and Freddie needed even fewer reserves than they had. Wrong!!!

Since I am both more intelligent than you are, harrogate, and have a longer memory, I have a firm recollection that George W. Bush inherited a recession from his predecessor when the dot-com bubble collapsed. Bush correctly recognized the recession he inherited as a problem to be dealt with. The recession that Obama and his cronies inherited was incorrectly viewed as a crisis to be exploited.

So I see us as being in a three-year national nightmare, but the end is coming on January 21st, 2013.

James said...

How about the entire "9/11 community" cashing it? I didn't even know a 9/11 community existed until recently.

http://911day.org/about-us

"Then, in 2009, with widespread support of the 9/11 community and strong bi-partisan backing, they were able to secure passage of federal legislation incorporated into the Edward M. Kennedy ServeAmerica Act, that formally recognized and lead to the official establishment of September 11 as a National Day of Service and Remembrance under federal law and Presidential Proclamation. To date, more than one million people from all 50 states and 165 countries have visited the 9/11 Day website."

Big Mike said...

Krugman will help in the 2012 election.

He certainly will. He most certainly will.

laddy said...

How this loon ever earned a Nobel prize is beyond my ability to grasp. Now that I think about it, Obama won one as well, so the Nobel has no meaning any longer. And, for the record, Krugman, I'm not at all ashamed. In fact, I would have done a lot more and gone a lot further.

Ned said...

The only thing accurate is his title "The conscience of a liberal" Yup...true dat!

DinobotPrime said...

Jason
The wars that came after September 11, 2001 did not cost us 3-4 trillion dollars. What destroyed this country was this idiotic belief that everyone of us are entitled to the money of the one richer than us. Without September 11, 2001, without the wars in the middle East, the results will be just the same because the ones that really put America into trouble are things like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, CRA, housing bubble, Medicare/Medicaid Fraud, Welfare fraud and crony capitalism which already existed even before those 4 planes left the ground.
Blaming it all on those wars is an exercise of intellectual cowardice.

m stone said...

It is interesting how momentous events show the folly of the leaders who could have changed them.

History is not merciful.

Sheepman said...

This post shows why you should have been chosen as a NYT columnist and, perhaps, why you were not chosen.

gutless said...

Beneath contempt.

viator said...

I am ashamed and discouraged that so many of my good and dear friends don't know what to think until they have read it in the NY Times, that they refuse to consider any alternative if it does not bear the NY Times stamp of approval, that they belong to a sub-culture that believes they are highly informed but instead are adherents of dogma, that they think they are progressive instead of reactionary, that they are craven when they should be brave, that they believe they are enlightened when they are athwart history, that their lives are illuminated when they are huddled together in a dark corner of the zeitgeist. Yes, I am ashamed and discouraged.

AJ Lynch said...

The MSM is the only business that goes out its way to piss off 25% or so [conservatives] of its total potential customer base.

CEO-MMP said...

Dear harrogate (or however you spell it):

What would you have had the mayor of one of the largest cities on earth do when his city was attacked in such a fashion? Hide in his office? Not be visible?

Giuliani was never a shy flower. It's how he operated when he was bringing down the mob.

And it was his job starting about noon on 9-11-01.

So fuck you.

Carol_Herman said...

The energy has gone out of it.

It's not fitting to do a parade.

There were 4 planes, not two.

And, people have moved on.

We don't do much on December 7th, either.

While I think we will keep "feet on the ground" in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Because America needs to keep its military training. And, holding spaces on this globe that help it prepare for the future.

To get into Irak, we got lots of difficulties, then, from Turkey. (And, at some point Turkey got permission to fly over Kurdish territory in Iraq, to kill Kurds in their villages!) This was AFTER Turkey did not let out troops, waiting to come into Iraq, to land on Turkish territory. So they spent 6 nauseating weeks at sea.)

Baghdad Bob didn't become as famous as I thought he would.

And, I think many people have been more worried that the Islamic terrorists among us would keep lashing out ... to give us a tragedy on par with 9/11, again.

I think Americans are a lot more alert after 9/11. Angrier at all of Islam, as a matter of fact.

Old Dad said...

Krugman's piece makes me wish I had a subscription to the Times--so that I could cancel it.

Jeff with one 'f' said...

I'm reminded of a picture that I saw somewhere of a tv screen the day JFK was killed. Some 2-bit philosopher filled the camera with the word SHAME on a cue card. As is if the American people were somehow responsible for a Communist patsy assassinating the president.

LIberalism is truly the politics of self-loathing writ large.

cubanbob said...

America's Politico said...
Krugman will help in the 2012 election. He has the power (NYT) and prestige (Nobel).

The NPR had a moving coverage on speeches by POTUS'S Obama and Clinton. 9/11 is also a story of Democrats.

9/11/11 10:22 AM

Yasir Arafat won a Nobel Prize. The Nobel isn't what once was.

AJ Lynch said...

Viator:

That was a great comment- I copied it and sent to some of my liberal family and friends. Thanks.

Widely Seen said...

This person, whose name I can no longer speak, deserves shunning.
Henceforth, I will not read, think about, or comment on anything wherein his name appears.

virgil xenophon said...

What I ABSOLUTELY LOVE about the NYT and Krugman is the courage of their convictions--pulling the article and not allowing comments--gotta REALLY ADIMRE that little show of intellectual fortitude..

harrogate said...

Dear CEO-MMP:

"What would you have had the mayor of one of the largest cities on earth do when his city was attacked in such a fashion? Hide in his office? Not be visible?"

Is "being visible" what you call dining out to lunch on it for the next 7+ years? Making millions off of it? Keeping his face in front of every camera that he could find for 7+ years? Gesh, you would almost think he was *glad* it happened.

But stay thoughtful.

Clyde said...

Not ashamed. Not sorry. Not buying into Krugman's bullshit.

Maguro said...

harrogate - I'm aware that there are morally superior creatures out there, like yourself and Robert Cook, who are always ashamed of America.

My comment was directed towards Krugman, who only seems to feel shame over Republican-led Wars of Imperialist Aggression™.

cubanbob said...

@Big Mike

What that communist moron harrogate forgets is that not only was the country in a recession on 9/10 but the economy took an additional trillion dollar hit on 9/11.

It was Bush's tax rate cut and the overall appearance of competence of the Bush Administration that brought confidence back in to the market.

Notice that the present ship of fools running the country inspire no one but instead generates derision. And fear.

Isn't it amazing how Bush's deficits were terrible for the economy but Obama quadrupling the deficits is just what the doctor ordered. Paul 'Enron" Krugman is a whore. Just like any whore its only a question of the price. Pay him enough and he will sprout what ever line you want him to.

Harrogate the only thing I am ashamed of is that we didn't nuke a few Arab countries and Pakistan off the face of the earth and all that Islam is a religion of piece crap.

John Bragg said...

I'm ashamed that, 10 years after 9/11, sharia still rules over Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, with our security and financial support in half of those cases.

I am ashamed that, 10 years later, there is not a Jewish-owned nudie bar serving bacon cheeseburgers in Mecca.

cubanbob said...

harrogate said...
Dear CEO-MMP:

"What would you have had the mayor of one of the largest cities on earth do when his city was attacked in such a fashion? Hide in his office? Not be visible?"

Is "being visible" what you call dining out to lunch on it for the next 7+ years? Making millions off of it? Keeping his face in front of every camera that he could find for 7+ years? Gesh, you would almost think he was *glad* it happened.

But stay thoughtful.

9/11/11 11:08 AM

You must have confused Rudy with Barry and Billy.

Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...

The attacks of ten years ago WERE a unifying event, but only until the left realized we were not going to respond as we had all through the 1990s -- WTC truck bomb, Mogadishu, Khobar, east African embassies, the Cole, and so on -- which was, if anything, to light a few candles, lob a few cruise missiles and call it good.

The attacks didn't change America, and George Bush's moderate-but-robust response did not change us either: we were already very different, and at one end of the political spectrum filled with self-loathing for America, shame, and rage. Jeremiah Wright was entirely typical, though extreme in his expression.

I remember as a young teenager in 1961 the commemorations of Pearl Harbor's 20th anniversary. They were certainly subdued, without a trace of shame for the ultimate unfolding of that conflict in early August, 1945.

America in that era was not subject to the highly-feminized over-emotionalism so characteristic of our times, and consequently "subdued" was totally normal.

What I remember most was the GI-generation people around me, then in their late 30s or early 40s, remarking "Has it really been twenty years?" Given my age at the time I couldn't really comprehend what they meant.

Now, half a century later, as I hear people comment "Has it really been ten years?" I understand all too well, and perhaps somewhat more than I'd wish.

dbp said...

I am proud to live in a country which allows even the Krugmans of the land to spout nonsense.

If I feel any shame, it is that our society is so debased as to have a significant number of citizens who lionize the man.

As for the war itself, I have mixed feelings: On one hand, I am proud that we reformed two backward hostile countries with as little collateral damage as manageable, on the other hand I think it might have sent a better long-run message had we been more brutal about it.

neomom said...

@cubanbob - don't confuse them with economic facts. It shatters their world view and causes them mental anguish.

And John Bragg has the thread winner:

"I am ashamed that, 10 years later, there is not a Jewish-owned nudie bar serving bacon cheeseburgers in Mecca."

BJM said...

I'm remembering this man and unashamedly embracing my sonsabitchesness.

@PatCA

Where do we find such men and such women?

America, that's where.


Exactly.

DADvocate said...

The one thing that does bug me about our reaction to 9/11 is the intrusion into our individual rights. The Patriot Act, the increased domestic spying, monitoring U.S. citizens on a wholesale basis, absurd airport searches, etc.

Now that Obamaster is prez, the liberal press largely ignores this. Rights only matter when a horrid Republican is violating them.

harrogate said...

Lots of polyanna partisan lenses happening here. Bush, Guliani,the wars, the tax cuts were heroic. Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac all by themselves brought down the US economy in 2008, while heroic bankers and GOP politicians scrambled to help. Obama=bad. Etc.

Big Mike says everything was all heroic and noble except for the Democrats. edutcher says: "And Giuliani and Dubya did do heroic things that day and in the days afterward. That's why the Lefties, including the Gray Lady, felt obliged to slime them."

Fair and Balanced indeed. Hey, you know who was even more heroic than W. and Giuliani during those dark and troubled, epic days during which GOP courage shined and the best of America was discovered? Sean Hannity. Amazing he doesn't have multiple Pulitzers for his leadership and Patriotism.

Commenters here who do not know me or much about my views at all, can do nothing but spout GOP talking points and call me a "Communist," apparently because I am not drunk on the Kool Aid.

Fun to watch you guys wax thoughtful, patriotic, and solemn though. Bet you feel all warm inside.

Hagar said...

Krugman is getting to be as big an embarrassment to the Swedish Nobel economics award committee as Obama is to the Norwegian parliament.

BJM said...

@harrogate

Strawman much?

harrogate said...

BJM: fail to read the comments much?

bagoh20 said...

Our nation respects the rights of fools like Krugman to waste their minds and words fighting for misguided ideas. So there is no shame for my nation, but Krugman and his ilk are another story.

Of course there is division among us. We have had similar challenges before with less division and infighting, but who has changed to cause that. The left has gotten less reflective and is now incapable of backing down in the face of its failure.

The Right is still defending what it always has - freedom and democracy.

I'm proud of what we have done. I doubt that any other nation granted our singular power would have done as much right, and respected freedom as much.

farrell said...

As usual, Krugman is spot on. Instead of a unifying event, it *has* been used as a wedge issue.

The only thing to be proud of is the brave Americans who responded out of human compassion, not for a political or nationalistic agenda. 9/11 cannot be divorced from the misguided over-reaction that has been the last 10 years of war.

America’s leaders (i.e. "fake heros") have badly misled us and squandered our resources (as in $10b/mo), and we should be ashamed for what has been done in our name.

America really is a great place, but unfortunately we are served poorly by our leaders. Those who died at the WTC on that day are in no way honored by the violence and hate that has erupted since.

madAsHell said...

Maybe Krugman can share a room with Obama at Hotel Irrelevant.

You know...even his picture has an I-know-it-all vibe to it.

maninthemiddle said...

As I wrote earlier and elsewhere... Krugman is a glimpse into the mind and mindset of the left. The cult of intellectualism. The Worship of nihilists such as Nietzsche, Russel, Sartre, Marx – while counterintuitively establishing a firm belief in the necessity to force their vision upon us. They let their worship of the nothingness of humanity form their opinions of what the “masses” should know and learn. Because (after all)…they are the “elite” – the ruling class – the intellectuals. Piss-Christ – good. Western Civilization courses and great dead white dudes – bad. Existential hatred of God and those that believe, while exhibiting faith based adherence to Mother Gaia.

In the last 50 years they have come to the forefront of power – I suspect they will not retreat without a bloody battle.

chrisnavin said...

I completely trust Krugman to not use this as a wedge issue, nor for what will be ultimately become political ends.

Mutaman said...

Boy not too many defences of Bush and Rudy. And nothing about Bernie Kerrick. I mean the guy stooped Judith Regan in an apartment at Ground Zero meant as a place where first responders could rest. How dare Krugman call him a "fake Hero".

Mutaman said...
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Mutaman said...
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Patrick said...

Krugman was trying to write teatrocity. What he thinks is the real source of the world problems.

The liberal mindset is missing a patriotic gene. Their self induced guilt about all things overwhelms them.

Patrick said...

9/11 was followed shortly thereafter by Enron. Ken Lay grabbed the baton Bin Laden passed him.

The Tea Party is the seed that resulted. What it grows into should be the ultimate memorial.

bagoh20 said...

""I am ashamed that, 10 years later, there is not a Jewish-owned nudie bar serving bacon cheeseburgers in Mecca."

Dog friendly, of course.

DADvocate said...

Sean Hannity. Amazing he doesn't have multiple Pulitzers for his leadership and Patriotism.

Given who wins prizes nowadays (Gore, Obama,etc), I doubt Hannity cares. He's not in the business to win a prize, and the left wouldn't accept him any more if he did. Hannity's out there to dig up the truth and shed light on the lies and hypocrisy of liberals.

America's Politico said...

It is tragic that most people do not see the real issue.

Krugman has power, you do not. He has NYT and Noble. You cannot beat. Simply cannot.

He can shape things. You cannot.

He can make voters vote the way he wants. You cannot.

He will have a tremendous impact in 2012. The re-election is going to be a breeze because of him.

Do you get this? I cannot believe that you fail to grasp this reality.

Dark Eden said...

Scumbag

neomom said...

I get it now America's Politico is Paul Krugman. Because nobody else could possibly think he has that much power and influence.

mike said...

Krugman is te useless fool. Next.

Carol_Herman said...

Post 9/11. We have Homeland Security. We have cockpit doors reinforced so passengers can no longer just "open the door to the cockpit."

We have TSA. Which people really, really hate.

And, the new laws that followed 9/11 replaced the two destroyed towers.

Bad laws. I don't think people feel any safer. Just more inconvenienced.

In the long run this is not good news for muslems.

And, I think I've noticed a diminution in the number of women who walk around wearing burkas. I've even seen fewer women with just head scarves. How did that happen? We didn't pass any laws to stop people from wearing these costumes.

But I'd bet fewer people shop in their stores. Or go to eat in their ethnic restaurants. While McDonald's business has grown ever stronger.

And, at McDonald's I've never seen anyone in Islamic headgear working behind any of their counters.

9/11 came with a price tag. Though the Saud's pretty much also escaped responsibility. They owned a whole set of politicians.

That was another item hidden from view.

Things go positively silent when real news shows up. Just getting "dates to remember" without the truth attached ... is gonna further weaken the NY Times. True, they didn't collapse, yet.

But neither has the EURO. And, all that's holding that together, now, is wallpaper. And, lies.

Carol_Herman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sydney said...

My favorite Paul Krugman moment.

harrogate said...

DADvocate writes:

"Hannity's out there to dig up the truth and shed light on the lies and hypocrisy of liberals."

Did y'all see that? Take a good look at it. It is the face of what passes for logic amongst many of you. This has nothing to do with the relative merits of Krugman's arguments. A reasonable person who disagrees with Krugamn would also know that the sentence I quote above is delusory. Wouldn't they?

rhhardin said...

I don't know why the left can't just be amused by their political opponents.

The right manages it.

J said...

"Spinelli": The lemmings who read Paul "Weasel" Krugman agree w/ everthing he says. I'm one of the few that bust his balls

Hoss the dyslexic mormon with his retarded "spinelli" act. Filed,and like forwarded to ...you know,the sites you normally hang at --DU, d-Kos, Digby, Pandagon,etc. Now, keep yr lies on, Hoss-a-roni


"cuban-bob": Harrogate the only thing I am ashamed of is that we didn't nuke a few Arab countries and Pakistan off the face of the earth and all that Islam is a religion of piece crap.

Cyber-terrorism, alt-tard style (bookmarked)

SMGalbraith said...

Mr. Krugman couldn't wait a day?

24 hours?

He recognized that he had to close his comments because of the anger that would ensue. An anger that would take away from today.

And yet he still ran with the piece today.

The tribalism of politics wasn't given that name just because it sounded good.

c71ff said...

PITF for Krugman. That is all.

Erik said...

Krugman is a fucking asshole.

Real American said...

there's only unity around left wing Democrats and their ideas. Anything else is hateful and divisive.

let the left wing circle jerk continue. these hacks are fucking clueless.

SMGalbraith said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Eric said...

Eventually America will have problems borrowing money and then funding for our military will evaporate, as will our military.

The military isn't what's breaking the bank. It's the out of control social spending. Yeah, we'll follow the Canadians and the Europeans into toothlessness as a result, but Medicare is the reason, not Iraq and Afghanistan.

Cedarford said...

The Krugman gnome - "What happened after 9/11 — and I think even people on the right know this, whether they admit it or not — was deeply shameful. Te atrocity should have been a unifying event, but instead it became a wedge issue. Fake heroes like Bernie Kerik, Rudy Giuliani, and, yes, George W. Bush raced to cash in on the horror. And then the attack was used to justify an unrelated war the neocons wanted to fight, for all the wrong reasons."

==================
With America in steep fiscal, economic, and international decline - there are unpleasant truths Krugman brings up about the aftermath of 9/11.

American economic domestic affairs
were ignored by American leadership that fixated on terrorism, homeland security, and Iraq as the "only things that mattered".

Rudy and Kerik cashed in spectacularly, made millions each off 9/11. So did a pack of neocons elevated to lecturers and "national security consultants". Bush cashed in politically, then let an unrestrained porkfest of about 3 trillion in borrowed dollars be distributed to "the heroes who keep us all safe" - the contractors in Iraq building new airports and water parks, the "hero dogs of Tennessee" that Sen Frist brought the pork home to fit out in Kevlar doggie armor.

Aside from the Heroes Who Keep Us All 100% Safe - The healthcare and pharma industries got Republican "appropriators" led by Billy Tausin to create a6.8 Trillion dollar new unfunded mandate to have government buy drugs at premium price. Then distribute to seniors for free.

When 8 years of ignoring mounting trade, jobs, deficit, entitlement, housing bubble and fiscal bubble problems finally blew the whole neglected mess up in 2008...We had a choice. Between a socialist with no experience. And a dimbulb who knew nothing about the economy - or if he did - thought it less important than "The Surge He Championed", and the new war he wanted to launch on Iran to "keep our special friend safe".

Then Obama, thought to be the lesser of two evils that would replace the failed Bush, compounded domestic problems with what now seem to be incredibly bad calls on deficits, China, the jobs creation mess.

Not a good 10 years for America. It was ill-served by both Republicans and Democrats in power. A series of wrong calls and misplaced priorities.

But at least we have the eternal gratitude of the "noble Iraqi freedom-lovers", The Heroes of 9/11, the friendly Afghans, Chinese, and bailed out Goldman Sachs bankers, the TSA Heroes, and Freddie Mae people.

Right???

Skipper said...

Perhaps Sir Paul doesn't want comments because he's a little ashamed of what he just wrote.

J said...

HossRon, with another invented name/blog--how many you got on here, Mormon joto ? Atleast 5-6

We'll be finding out, shortly Hosss--as the server Admin. at Digby did,when they caught you posting with female/gay names.

traditionalguy said...

Krugman is pathetic.

The inner resolve inside of persons who realize that a dangerous enemy has attacked them and done horrible harm is not on the same planet as two bit shame.

That inner resolve is why Obama Murdered Osama and no one had a problem.

On August 6 and again on August 9, 1945 the Japanese woke up to why Pearl Harbor had been a serious mistake for them.

Krugman is not living in reality.

Kirk Parker said...

"There's shame all right, but not where Krugman is looking."

Indeed, the shame is where he is sitting.

SDN said...

Kipling knew all about Socialists like Krugman and harrowgate:

"Memories
1930

"The eradication of memories of the Great War. -SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT ORGAN

The Socialist Government speaks:

THOUGH all the Dead were all forgot
And razed were every tomb,
The Worm-the Worm that dieth not
Compels Us to our doom.
Though all which once was England stands
Subservient to Our will,
The Dead of whom we washed Our hands,
They have observance still.

We laid no finger to Their load.
We multiplied Their woes.
We used Their dearly-opened road
To traffic with Their foes:
And yet to Them men turn their eyes,
To Them are vows renewed
Of Faith, Obedience, Sacrifice,
Honour and Fortitude!

Which things must perish. But Our hour
Comes not by staves or swords
So much as, subtly, through the power
Of small corroding words.
No need to make the plot more plain
By any open thrust;
But-see Their memory is slain
Long ere Their bones are dust!

Wisely, but yearly, filch some wreath-
Lay some proud rite aside-
And daily tarnish with Our breath
The ends for which They died.
Distract, deride, decry, confuse-
(Or-if it serves Us-pray!)
So presently We break the use
And meaning of Their day!

SDN said...

J, if you're such a tough guy, put up an address so someone can come by and take this up in meatspace.

DADvocate said...

Did y'all see that? Take a good look at it. It is the face of what passes for logic amongst many of you.

I suppose Hannity would could have taken the morally superior route as did Rachel "Hoover" Maddow, Ed "Fatter than Limbaugh" Schultz and Keith "Worst Person in the World" Olberman. Yes, that would have been the right thing to do.

But, no, Hannity chose the route of exposing the intellectual corruption of liberals, of uncovering their malignant "caring." He eschewed receiving awards pandering to left wing thought. He chose the road less traveled, the road of honesty and truth rather than left-wing demagoguery.

And, poor fools like yourself just can't stand it.

Seven Machos said...

Reading through these comments is un-fucking-believaable. We are mourning our dead -- some 2000 -- after 10 years of liberating millions of people from dictatorship and ridding the world of evil.

The United States of America rules. We are awesome. And there are a bunch of dead evil people because of us, and that is awesome.

And if you don't like it, I am not sorry. We are not sorry. Fuck you. Bend over and take the death of tyranny and the birth of liberation.

Synova said...

The atrocity was a unifying event. It *stayed* a unifying event right up until liberals couldn't maintain the emotion any longer. The people who changed or used the event as a wedge issue weren't those who wanted to take the fight to the enemy.

We saw the same sort of thing when Osama was found and killed. Up until then it was all "This ought to be about Bin Laden, about justice, and Bush just forgot all about him. We should be going after Bin Laden." But that was just a lie. We know it was a lie because when we *got* Bin Laden the "thoughtful" sorts suddenly realized they didn't approve of assassination or just killing some useless old man. All the calls to "get" Bin Laden were nothing but political ploys for them, and now we have proof of that.

I've come to the conclusion that it's never about doing anything. It's always about making the right noises and feeling good about yourself. Just as soon as someone actually follows through the second thoughts start and the shame starts and the shifting of blame starts.

I suppose the rest of us are supposed to understand that the end goal is actually the initial emotionalism, that we're not supposed to believe anyone when they're just venting. Because Bush's initial response was too moderate for most, too restrained, and that wasn't just conservatives calling for nuking Afganistan to the stone age (redundant as that would have been) it was liberals, too. And when they stopped being emotional they were ashamed.

So Krugman, and those who agree with him, can (and do) speak for themselves.

They supported retaliation, supported war, without a thought to what that meant, and when they found out they looked for someone else to blame.

Synova said...

It's like that horrible song that's on the play-list of shopping music at work... what did you think - that I would do - when I said that I was leaving...

It's like... what did you think - that we would do - when you voted to go to war/demanded vengeance and retaliation/said killing Bin Laden was most important?

Huh?

What did you think was going to happen?

So go ahead and be ashamed, I think there is plenty to be ashamed of there.

Gary Rosen said...

"The Heroes of 9/11"

Expressed of course with overwhelming sarcasm. Befitting his miserable existence as a galactic loser, C-fudd resents 9/11 responders nearly as much as he does Joooos.

Donald Douglas said...

Linked: 'Progressives Shame the Country on the 10th Anniversary of 9/11'.

J said...

--SDN-Hoss the mormon joto, the link's there, isn't it, you mumbling dimwit--to a real blog. Unlike your dozens of little fake names/blogs with no posts, no info,no nada. Like the space between your ears. NADA. Remember H20man? He and many other youve deceived for months, if not years have been notified of yr right wing posts here, and white supremacist pals, you piece of garbage.


-Nachos, trying to act machos again,in your usual ugly peasant fashion. Do you even understand Krugman's point? Or you just like GW Bush.

--something had to be done,and the "atrocity" may have been a unifying event. But the Toby Keith heroics aren't needed at this stage, synova. Besides what is the final body count--Americans at 9-11 3000 or so; 2000 military. Upwards of a million iraqis and thousands of afghans (notwithstanding no proven link between AQ and iraqi/Hussein).

Simon said...

I sometimes wonder if Paul Krugman is pulling a "family guy": Getting more and more viciously, stupidly obnoxious week on week in an effort to find what it will take for the outlet that holds his leash to let him go. (Naturally, the martyr's speech has been ready for years.) Will the New York Fishwrap please fire him now before he resorts to posting his penis, the next most disgusting thing he can do after today's droppings?

Simon said...

Carol_Herman said...
"We don't do much on December 7th, either."

That's a great point. When did that stop, anyway? Why? And what does that tell us about the conditions under which we'll stop doing things on 9/11?

If I had to guess—and I don't know; it's just speculation; if you do know, please say so—it started with some idiot like Paul Krugman telling us that we ought to be ashamed of our provoking Japan into an attack, and that we ought to be more sensitive to the many Japanaese-American citizens by killing the memorial. That sure couldn't happen again, right?

DADvocate said...
"Now that Obamaster is prez, the liberal press largely ignores this. Rights only matter when a horrid Republican is violating them."

That door swings both ways, though. There seem to be many more "libertarians" in the GOP since Obama took office than there were when Bush was in charge.

Synova said...

"--something had to be done,and the "atrocity" may have been a unifying event. But the Toby Keith heroics aren't needed at this stage, synova."

That "Toby Keith" heroics aren't needed at this stage does not mean anyone should be ashamed, J.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't reevaluate what we're doing now, of course it doesn't. But that's not what Krugman was talking about. He doesn't want to own the past. Too bad. He was part of it. And so were almost all of the liberals and progressives who turned anti-war after they realized what war meant once their blood wasn't so hot anymore, or who saw it was a useful political tactic to set themselves against our efforts and our success.

What gets me is the notion that everyone else ought to be ashamed, too.

You are right, something had to be done. But it didn't have to be done because we were outraged or angry. It had to be done because we were attacked. It had to be done because that could not be allowed to stand without overwhelming answer. Both justice and warning had to be served. Something had to be done for a variety of very *stupid* human reasons that don't go away just because we understand they are stupid. We can't appear weak or defeated or it invites attack and strengthens those who'd use similar tactics. The bad guys, the real evil out there, can't be allowed even the illusion that they won.

Those aren't emotional or vindictive reasons. They aren't calls for retaliation. They don't depend on anger or hate. They just *are*. Because humans are humans and lofty thoughts about what *ought* to be means wrong and harmful decisions and even more of the bad stuff.

Eric said...

Will the New York Fishwrap please fire him now before he resorts to posting his penis, the next most disgusting thing he can do after today's droppings?

The NYT has to love all the attention Krugman is garnering - no editor cares if his readers are pissed off, as long as companies don't start pulling ads. Quite the opposite, in fact. Newspapers thrive on controversy.

The pathetic part is how many people, Americans, agree with this Jerry Springer of columnists. It's not enough to be taken in by the Keynesian cargo cult, but they have to engage with this kind of flaccid sophistry as well? Just what is the average IQ in this country, anyway?

Gene said...

What are Krugman's "obvious reasons" for not allowing comments to his post? That readers would bring up issues he'd rather not see discussed?

Simon said...

Gene: Because he said something foul and doesn't want to provide a forum for a million "me too" comments calling him a prick.

You have to realize hat Krugman is ashamed of this column too. He has to do it, so he dutifully cranks it out, but I think it sickens him. A sad, lost little man who already feels the warmth under his feet.

furious_a said...

"We don't do much on December 7th, either."

That's because we settled our business with the Imperial Japanese on the battlefield (and, at the end, over their defenseless cities) -- that butcher's bill has been paid in full.

The Ummah are nowhere close to restitution.

PatCA said...

Of course, if the commemorations were not so subdued, Krugman and his ilk would accuse us of jingoism.

DADvocate said...

There seem to be many more "libertarians" in the GOP since Obama took office than there were when Bush was in charge.

There seem to be many more fascist, totalitarians in the Democratic Party since Obama took office. Freedom and rights are not longer an issue for them.

DADvocate said...

BTW - Here's how some liberals commemorate 9/11. By dredging up "September 11, 1973, when the U.S. succeeded in its intensive efforts to overthrow the democratic government of Salvador Allende in Chile with a military coup that placed General Pinochet's brutal regime in office."

Never miss an opportunity to denigrate America.

FloridaSteve said...

I realize that this is 134 comments in but Go Fuck Yourself Mr. Krugman. If we're so ashamed wouldn't comments be a chance for confession and catharsis? I guess you're wrong then aren't you. And you write for the New Your Fucking Times you miserable piece of shit.

gk1 said...

Glad to see some things haven't changed in 10 years. Sanctimonious, liberal, assholes still apoligize for our existance. The sun also rises in the east. Yaawnn. Its sad they can't hold off one more day on their pity party.

roesch-voltaire said...

Of course Althouse would not link to the article by Ahmed Rashid to have her brood read a perspective from Lahore, Pakistan to discover how badly we have managed these two wars. 60 Billion wasted and missing, few things working in Iraq, and Afghanistan in turmoil ruled by a crook. Mislead by our "elite" leaders who promised the war would pay for itself and be over in a few years, we have nothing to cheer about expect those who have served in spite of the incompetence of their leaders.

Seven Machos said...

60 Billion wasted

We have a beachhead in the Middle East, bordering every problematic nation. We have Iran surrounded. Tyrants are falling like dominoes.

Your talking points are old and stale, Roesch. It must be sad, though, that your dreamy leftist fantasy of Obama has in reality been a continuation of Bush foreign policy down to every punctuation mark. That must be infuriating. And, of course, your impotency in the face of it must make you seethe.

Reality is an unmerciful bitch, huh?

Freeman Hunt said...

It's subdued because it was traumatic.

Shouldn't it be subdued? It's hardly a party hard moment. Funerals are subdued.

roesch-voltaire said...

Steven- really we have a beach head in the Middle East- what a strange way to describe the disaster in Iraq, which if you noticed none of the youth involved in the Spring uprising have used as a model-- I wonder why? And the Bush policy towards Pakistan has been a disaster--another example of supporting corrupt leaders. Talk about dreamy Neo-con fantasy, you are a prime example and your view will last about as long as Stantley McChrystal's plan lasted in Afghanistan.

Seven Machos said...

which if you noticed none of the youth involved in the Spring uprising have used as a model

They don't have a military full of tanks, airplanes, and Marines.

As far as the rest of your post, it begs the obvious: why has Obama further entrenched Bush's foreign policy in every single aspect -- except free trade?

I know this stuff, dude. Well. Please bring your A game. Thanks.

Synova said...

"And the Bush policy towards Pakistan..."

Pakistan didn't fall apart until after Obama was elected. Bush handled Pakistan with kid gloves and Obama, who knew so much about the region because he was next door as a child, decided Pakistan was a proper venue for "lets show the voters that I'm bad ass." Coincidence? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not.

Seven Machos said...

Obama also invaded Pakistan with our Navy SEALs. Bully for him, I say. Bush would have done the same thing, and leftists would have had a hissy fit over sovereignty.

As I say, the left is crazy over Obama's foreign policy. It's the same as Bush's (except worse on trade). The silence we hear is deafening. The way people like Roesch continue to blame Bush for policy that Obama has perpetuated and entrenched for three years is hilarious.

The left generally is a sad clown these days.

PETER V. BELLA said...

Paul Krugman is a liberal without a conscience. He is also anti-American. One of the enemy within.

America has nothing to be ashamed about.

Seven Machos said...

America has nothing to be ashamed about.

Too defensive.

I take immense, immense pride in the way my country has reacted and acted these last 10 years. We are bathed in glory.

SukieTawdry said...

Paul Krugman believes the welfare state is the most decent social arrangement yet devised.

That should tell you everything you need to know about what a small, mean, begrudging, thoroughly uncharitable man Mr. Krugman is. Not that he in any way understands that.

roesch-voltaire said...

My first post made no mention of Obama but an article written by a Ahmed Rashid, which I suspect most of Althouse's brood will not brother with, but should. You might get a sense of just how ineffective the Bush kid glove approach has been, and while the Obama approach of using more strikes from drones has been effective, it has cost us among the average Pakistanis.
Beach heads are to be held for only a few day, if we are still clinging to the beach after ten years something is very wrong Steven-- drag out a new neo-con mantra please.

Seven Machos said...

Roesch -- We will be in Iraq in 50 years. One hundred years. One thousand years. As long as our interests are served. Just like in Korea, in Germany, in Italy, in Cuba, in every nook and cranny of the world.

Wise people engaged in foreign policy -- even liberal ones -- understand this.

Again, your posts are filled with impotence. Why -- if Iraq is such a bad idea -- are we still there three years into Obama's presidency?

Further, your only serious line of argument thus far has been that Bush didn't kill enough people with technological weapons in Pakistan, including innocent adults and children who invariably die in these attacks. What a dove you are!

Sleep well tonight, while serious men with guns protect you and your right to whine impotently, and while Obama perpetuates Obama's foreign policy only, by your own reckoning, with more death in Pakistan.

Gary Rosen said...

"the disaster in Iraq"

Yes it was such a delightful garden spot under the rule of Saddam Hussein.

Ron Henzel said...

If Paul Krugman's opinion was any more significant it would be utterly irrelevant.

Martin said...

And he turns off the "Comments," he lacks the moral strength to even hear what people think of him... compare him to people who risk life and limb to protect all of us, INCLUDING HIM.

This is a small child consumed by hate and frustration and fear. Pathetic little creature.

abdul7591 said...

It is not the War on Terror that is costing us, and much of the rest of world, billions of dollars. It is the Jihad that is doing this. 9/11 was a manifestation of something that has been going on for 1400 years. The fact that the Jihad will not end is not a reason to become pacifist in the face of its threat. We live in evil times that force us to choose between bad and worse options. Liberals are like children who want to believe that if only America would stop misbehaving then everything would be peaceful and pleasant. Unfortunately, we cannot defeat the Islamic Adolf Hitlers of today by behaving like a bunch of Krugman-reading, NPR-listening post-modern Neville Chamberlains who need their diapers changed every time somebody disagrees with them on matters of public policy. Our cultural elites are not an inspiring bunch for these times. To put it bluntly, they are a miserable menagerie of politically correct invertebrates, so morally gelatinous you could spread them on your toast.

Scott said...

I think tying our Middle East policy to any president -- Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama -- is disingenuous.

In fact, we use the Middle East as a giant WPA-style program to keep defense contractors, the military establishment, the CIA, and the state department bulked up and fully employed.

Look, Obama couldn't even shut down Gitmo. And he ended up getting us into Libya. No president, acting alone, can stand up to the entrenched and sophisticated military industrial complex.

They may be in the background, but they will always be there. And they will do what they will. And they will outlast and outsmart any administration.

Synova said...

Do you really think, Scott, that if we just quit all that defense spending, stopped lining the pockets of the people who are in the business of war, that there would simply be no conflict?

Perhaps if we had no technology at all this would be true. If we had only sticks and rocks that we could pick up off the ground for free, we'd have no conflict with anyone more than, oh, 20 feet from us.

Synova said...

"Look, Obama couldn't even shut down Gitmo. And he ended up getting us into Libya. No president, acting alone, can stand up to the entrenched and sophisticated military industrial complex."

And this statement is gawd awful stupid.

Obama wasn't able to stand up to Hillary Clinton and Samantha Power. The "military industrial complex" had nothing to do with it.

Synova said...

And as CiC the president, one single lone person, has complete power to simply say "no."

You're talking like he wanted to say no, but was helpless. Weak, helpless, pointless excuse for a president.

Or maybe admit the truth... he chose to say yes, and no one made him do it.

Seven Machos said...

No president, acting alone, can stand up to the entrenched and sophisticated military industrial complex.

Not sure what to make of this comment. It sounds stupidly conspiratorial.

The facts on the ground are such that even liberals can understand them. And the liberals who make policy do understand them (many are careerists at State and the Pentagon), and they understand precisely that we must stay in Iraq, and that we had to undertake military operations in Libya.

As an aside, almost certainly the biggest reason did what we did in Libya is that we provided money and arms to the rebels. They were successful; it would be impossible to sleep at night if we left them hanging.

debiesam said...

His comments come off as petty, mean-spirited, and small-minded. The anniversary of 9/11 is a day when we should rise above our political differences and come together to mourn those who lost their lives in this terrible tragedy.

Jay said...

harrogate said...

Fun to watch you guys wax thoughtful, patriotic, and solemn though. Bet you feel all warm inside.


And it is fun to watch you silly, ignorant, America hating leftists reveal your true colors.

Tony said...

I have no clue what Krugman's "obvious reasons" are for not allowing comments.

Simon said...

Scott said...
"Look, Obama couldn't even shut down Gitmo. And he ended up getting us into Libya. No president, acting alone, can stand up to the entrenched and sophisticated military industrial complex."

Of course he could have shut down Gitmo. The reason he didn't was simple and admirable: He realized, belatedly, that his earlier position had been naive and mistaken, so he reversed course. He didn't say so publicly, but that's the reality of it. And the reason he got us into Libya was also simple and admirable: No human being with a heart could have seen events in Libya and not wished that they could do something, and he realized that he was in a position to help. We can debate whether these were the right calls or not, but they're easy to explain.