September 25, 2011

I get the feeling you might want to talk about Herman Cain.

He won the Florida straw poll. By a lot.
Cain's landslide victory, with 37 percent of the vote, exceeded the combined total for Perry and Mitt Romney, who only garnered 15 percent and 14 percent, respectively.

But it was a particularly stinging defeat for Perry, the front-runner in Florida and national polls. He had wooed the nearly 3,000 party faithful with fliers before the Presidency 5 weekend and a free breakfast Saturday.
Is this just a message to Perry and Romney or are we supposed to believe that a man who has never held political office could serve as the President of the United States?

ADDED: From the article:
Ana Navarro, of Miami-Dade and an adviser to candidate Jon Huntsman, said Perry is more show than substance.

"Rick Perry is a Texas stud, a real macho man who looks great in a cowboy hat and boots and was supposed to come galloping on his stallion to rescue Republicans and lead us to the promise land," Navarro said. "But it's become increasingly clear he can't perform. He has electile dysfunction."
Huntsman needs to rein in his quasi-spokespersons. Somebody thinks she's way wittier than she is, and sex jokes simply do not fit the presidential discourse. How is anyone supposed to respond? Take potshots at Huntsman's sexuality?!

121 comments:

Hagar said...

Perhaps you should count up the number of previous presidents who had not held a political office prior to their election?

rick said...

If the TEA party supports this guy over Obama it proves they are racists. Oh wait a minute, I'm confused ......

Psychedelic George said...

I can see the ticket now...McCain and Christie

The Pizza Man and the Fat Man Will Deliver!

alan markus said...

Perhaps you should count up the number of previous presidents who had not held a political office prior to their election?

Earlier today I read that Dwight Eisenhower is the most recent example of that.

Paul Zrimsek said...

The top of the ticket may still be undecided but I think we've got our VP nominee nailed down.

rick said...

What Paul said.

ddh said...

None of the potential Republican candidates is ideal. I think Cain's victory is a message.

Romney's weakness is healthcare and a certain, uh, flexibility of conviction. Not great for a party that wants to run against Obamacare.

Perry is intermittently articulate, a decided flaw if he talks about reforming Social Security. One wonders if he wouldn't sabotage himself at an inconvenient time.

Cain is likeable, seems to have convictions, and is articulate. Now that even Democrats are willing to admit that Obama's lack of experience has done harm, are Republicans willing to nominate a candidate with no prior political experience? Is Cain more Eisenhower or Hoover?

Sixty Grit said...

Yeah, but was he wearing bedroom slippers?

WV: stabi - what Fat Tony on the Simpsons becomes.

Pogo said...

Good for Cain.

I see little evidence that experience in public office offers much more than training in featherbedding and corruption.

Scott said...

Being a two-term governor is an important qualification. It shows that the executive can work with a legislature to get things done, with the further endorsement of a state's electorate to be sent back for another term.

Of the current crop of GOP presidential hopefuls, only Rick Perry has this qualification. But the Texas legislature is pretty weak, since it's only a part-time body that meets every other year, so that isn't a proper test of a governor. So ultimately I don't think any of the candidates has particularly strong qualifications.

Beyond Perry and Romney, though, I think Cain is better than the rest. He's passionate, but a pragmatist. In the 2004 GOP primaries for senator from Georgia, he was apparently rejected by voters for being too moderate. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Cain is the logical choice for vice president, if he wants it. And if he were the GOP's nominee for president against Obama, I would vote for Cain without reservation. I would be so happy to see Herman Cain become the first African American President of the United States.

Scott said...

What Paul said too.

James said...

Herman Cain isn't going to win the nomination but this straw poll result is a warning to the establishment Republican Party, and a rebuke to Perry and Romney.

As long as Romney refuses to admit that the health care program he signed into law in Mass. was a mistake he will struggle for support. Similarly, Perry will lose support for his illegal immigration policies in Texas.

The party is being warned that the activists wouldn't allow insiders and donors to choose the candidate. Recall that a few weeks ago we were fed with numerous stories that wealthy donors were meeting with Perry to get him into the race for the Iowa straw poll. Now that he's flopping we're hearing that donors are meeting with Christie. The grassroot activists want a principled conservative candidate and if they don't get it many are likely to sit out this election like they did for McCain.

Fred4Pres said...

Herman Cain is a good man. I recognize he is still a long shot, but everyone running for president is a long shot (with the exception of the guy in office who is running). Some suggest Romney voters switched from supporting their guy to supporting Cain. Really? That makes no sense. What it appears is Perry voters abandoned their guy and switched to Cain.

And Michelle Bachmann? She is dead last, after Huntsman!

Herman Cain is a good man. Go Herman Go.

ricpic said...

Pretty soon Cain will run out of Godfather's pizzas to hand out near polling places and then what?

Fred4Pres said...

Cain's rising sort of rebuts Morgan Freeman's calls of raaaaacism.

Morgan made a lot of sense not too long ago. But he recently said tea partiers are against Obama because he is black. Really? Could Freeman accept the possibility that those of us (most of us) who dislike President Obama's policies do so because of the policies and not because of his race?

Fred4Pres said...

ricpic, I like Herman Cain despite that chain store pizza. I am very old school about pizza and take it way seriously. I do not eat in pizza huts, or godfather, or any other corporate idea of pizza.

mun said...

I can't speak for other people but I like Herman Cain because he is plain speaking and has big ideas. I guess I should put my money where my mouth is.

NYTNewYorker said...

There is nothing "squishy" coming from Herman Cain.

In this go round, not being one of them and no squish is a very good thing.

Fred4Pres said...

James, if Perry is too much to the left on issues, why do these so called smart people think a more liberal guy like Chris Christie is the answer? Christie is like a fat Huntsman (but granted also with charisma).

I like Christie taking on fiscal issues in New Jersey. He is awesome on that. But he is not a conservative on most issues and that is a deal breaker for most people.

galdosiana said...

I have always liked Cain. I'd love to see him in a debate against Obama!

Roger J. said...

not sure what to think Mr Cain I like his speeches and he seems a lot more real than does Mr Obama--Oh well--early in the campaign--lots of time before the thing heats up next spring.

I think Mr Cain's showing gives lie to the racist bullship currently spouted by progressives--Looks like he may be a good choice, and if nothing else vitiates the racist crap currently swirling around.

Roger J. said...

It will be indeed interesting to see how liberal press goes after Mr Cain

xnar said...

ABC web site cant even run a photo of Cain even though they still feature Perry.

Perhaps Herman can go on those Sunday shows and articulate why the "Teaparty is racist" assertions are fatuous.

Curious George said...

"ddh said...

Now that even Democrats are willing to admit that Obama's lack of experience has done harm, are Republicans willing to nominate a candidate with no prior political experience? Is Cain more Eisenhower or Hoover?"

Obama's lack of experience is in anything of an executive nature...not politics. He had lots of political experience.

Eisenhower had lots of executive experience.

So does Herman.

vet66 said...

Are we to assume that Obama's prior resume of voting "present" as a senator qualifies him for claiming to have held prior office? I don't think so. Core principles, values and ethics are the drivers for a successful POTUS not blind ideology seasoned with loathing for the country he represents.

Fred4Pres said...

Do you to see racism?

Watch Cain be the front runner and you will see racism. The left loves to lynch negros who stray off the libtard plantation.

campy said...

Obama's re-election — already a sure bet — gets more & more certain by the day.

wef said...

For the love of.....
My word verification is "juggiess" - kid you not.
Trying to figure out if that is sexist or racist.

Anyway, Cain's practical problem is that he is not sufficiently cynical.

Roger J. said...

Resumes are not, in my judgment indicative of how a president will perfom.. Ike had a lot of political experience in his role as SHAEF--had to deal with FDR, Stalin, and Churchill along with the excreable FM Montgomery--I reject the argument that DDE had no political experience.

It remains to be seen how Mr Cain's enterprise will go--He seems to me, at this point in time, to be the genuine article

David said...

I, for one, would feel much better if he had been a state senator.

James said...

>>James, if Perry is too much to the left on issues, why do these so called smart people think a more liberal guy like Chris Christie is the answer? Christie is like a fat Huntsman (but granted also with charisma). <<

Which is why I say this latest result is a warning to the party insiders and donors. The activists are rejecting their choice of Perry and will reject Christie too.

This is a huge opening for Sarah Palin but she's biding her time and allowing everyone else to punch themselves out.

ricpic said...

Electile dysfunction isn't funny? I think it is. I mean not hardcore funny but not limp either, ya know?

Bob Ellison said...

The "electile dysfunction" joke is as old as Viagra.

Also, did Navarro really say "promise land"? Could be a transcription error.

Deekaman said...

I have met Herman Cain, shook his hand, looked him in the eye and was able to ask pointed questions at a TEA Party rally in Sheboygan last year. He's the Real Deal. absolutely, positively the one we are looking for on the Right. He is inspirational, smart, street smart and capable of filling his cabinet and "kitchen cabinet" with the right people. Remember that Reagan's success was his Big Ideas and hiss ability to communicate. But Reagan also surrounded himself with the right people for the policies he wanted to implement.

I care not that Cain is Black. I care not that he has held no elective office (neither did George Washington). I care that he has the right values and principles and policies to make the United States of America great again.

Further, I agree with Pogo: "I see little evidence that experience in public office offers much more than training in featherbedding and corruption."

OldGrouchyCranky said...

@Hagar: I count 5-former presidents who hadn't held elected public office before becoming president: George W., Jackson, Taylor, Grant, and Ike.

However, Cain was CEO of a major business and that job involves a whole lot of getting people to work together.

Also, Cain seems to understand the issues he's addressed publicly that I've know of. And, he addresses what he does straight forwardly and intelligently.

Still, it's too early in this race to anoint a leader, especially since there's at least one potential candidate, or maybe two, not yet in the running officially.

Personally, while some candidates need to go stand down, this is an endurance race in so many ways. Let's enjoy the run for the Oval.

Cheers.

ricpic said...

This is a huge opening for Sarah Palin...

Absolutely. It's now or never. Run Sarah, run.

Roger J. said...

based on a very limited sample as expressed on this blog, Mr Cain seems to do quite well--enough (in my judgment again) a lot of folks cast their vote for Mr Obama because he was black--It now appears that Mr Cain, who is indisutably black, has garnered support because of his positions on issues. Thats a good thing I think.

It will be a very interesting campaign next spring--I wish Mr Cain luck, but I gotta tell you, the uncle tom comments will start next week.

WV: dermetex: some sort of skin ailment that afflicts Texas governors.

Chweebus said...

"...or are we supposed to believe that a man who has never held political office could serve as the President of the United States?"

I am of the strong opinion that we should recruit our presidential candidates from our pool of Republican Governors. Where is Scott Walker and Christie...who stared down the unions? That's leadership.

That said, I am also of the opinion that a citizen's experience and success in real life counts as much. Cain is good VP material but I don't see him as President. But if it comes down to Cain as the nominee, I'll vote for him.

This race has yet to produce a candidate that appeals to Indie Voters.

PrincetonAl said...

Cain's real world experience means more to me than Obama's experience. So, no, it doesn't bother me one bit. We need *real* change. And Cain would be real change.

Whether we can sell it to the rest of the country, I don't know. But I would support him enthusiastically.

As Cain says, "How's that working out for you?"

As for the straw poll results, I think it is a combination of message, and who they liked on stage that night. And, Cain performed best. Its hard to say that when looking ahead to real primary results that an unscientifically selected hardcore set of politically junkies is reflective of anything more broadly. I don't think the "message" part was the large part of it, either.

Beldar said...

@ James: No one who "sits out" an election is a conservative. Fool, maybe; poseur, maybe. But conservative? No. Conservatives go to vote against the worst blight on the White House since Jimmy Carter. Anyone who stays home is not entitled to claim the distinction of being a "conservative." So I wish people like you would stop suggesting that's an acceptable choice. It only is if you're a fool or a poseur -- not if you're a conservative.

Roger J. said...

Beldar: when I get my next divorce or DUI--whichever comes first I want you on my side--do you do private practice?

edutcher said...

Herman's a good man* and a very accomplished one. He has a lot of good ideas for the economy and really hit it out of the park at the debate every time he spoke. And Hagar's point is well-taken, although he (Cain) needs to get much better on foreign policy.

The vote was an endorsement of his performance at the debate and another shot across the bow at Milton that the base really doesn't like him.

As for Perry, apparently, there's very little debating in TX elections (going by what a couple of blogs are noting), it's all pressing the flesh - which has really hurt him.

As for Huntsman, I have no gaydar, but, if anybody could set it off, Huntsman's it, so his flack saying what she said is weird.

* According to The Blonde, anybody with Stage 4 liver and colon cancer is lucky to be alive.

Carol_Herman said...

About as popular as Clarence Thomas is to Black people.

Do Black people love stories of success! Sure! And, they'd tell you about those that made it in Hollywood. And, on TV. Oprah is bigger in lots of minds, than Herman Cain.

I'm also sure Blacks know lots of names of people they admire whom you've never heard of.

And, I certainly don't care much for chain store pizza ... so why would I think this is the "big deal" part?

lyssalovelyredhead said...

I was really excited to support Cain at first, but then he made those comments about the mosque in Murfreesboro, and I wrote him off.* But maybe I should give him another go- every candidate has some flaws, and this, in the grand scheme of things, would have very little if any effect.

I'd like to hear him discuss how he would appoint judges. I'm somewhat excited that there are three people that I think I could be very happy to support (Cain, Perry, & Romney).


* He said something to the effect of: the community has the right to decide whether it wants a mosque around or not- this is entirely inconsistent with the 1st Amendment.

Oligonicella said...

alan markus --

"Earlier today I read that Dwight Eisenhower is the most recent example of that."

Uh no. Obama is the most recent example. Voting "present" doth not constitute 'holding office'.

Carol_Herman said...

Reddit had up one of those interesting things people seem to learn on the fly. And, it said McDonald's has turned out more Black and Hispanic millionaires than any other company on this planet!

The Golden Arches made people of color rich. WOW, I said. That's good and it's interesting. Doesn't mean I'd vote someone in for president because they were smart enough to invest real money into McDonald's.

Phil 3:14 said...

And Bachmann won the Iowa straw poll.

that and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Oligonicella said...

James --

"The grassroot activists want a principled conservative candidate and if they don't get it many are likely to sit out this election like they did for McCain."

NOBODY is sitting this one out. That's a moby's pipedream.

Phil 3:14 said...

PS

Racist!

(am I calling myself a racist? I'm becoming a PhD in education!)

Carol_Herman said...

White nitwits.

Somebody told a bunch of Whites that if they want to vote for a republican candidate, they have to hate the running democrap.

What kind of choice is that?

Lots of people don't hate obama. And, this is still true, since the day he trounced McCain in 2008.

The best candidate will have POSITIVE QUALITIES! The best candidate wouldn't have to cater to those who hate some of our laws, and some of our presidents.

That's how losers behave.

Roger J. said...

Edutcher: I do enjoy your commentary, but here's my take on Mr Cain, and any candidate as well--There are very few positions on foreign policy that any candidate take based on their life experience unless they are in the foreign service or, in some cases military--I do not see foreign policy experience as a winnowing criteria. As always, your mileage may very--I would like a man or woman who has principles, and lays them out.

PatCA said...

Cain is a Happy Warrior, like Ronald Reagan.

He loves and enjoys life and his country, and it's infectious.

The rest of them, especially Romney and Perry, have been 'blandicized' by their handlers to the point I can't listen to their platitudes.

edutcher said...

No problem, Roger, thanks for the compliment.

I understand what you say and agree, although there probably are those scholars (I use the word with caution and in the old-fashioned sense) who probably could speak to such issues with some expertise.

My only knock against Herman is that he seems not to have considered foreign policy at all (Perry seems to have a similar problem) and, being as we are at war, that has to get fixed for him to be viable.

Oligonicella said...

Here's some homework for you:

Make a list of the five worst presidents.

Include an asterisk next to the name of any who "never held political office".

Now, make the argument again about that being a qualifier for someone who would function well.

wv: pigging - The most appropriate wv I've seen on a political discussion.

paul a'barge said...

Here is a picture of Ana Navarro, who accused Rick Perry of erectile disfuntion:
http://eichikawa.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/elec31.jpg

dude, if I had to look at that I would have erectile disfunction as well.

America's Politico said...

This is nothing. Wait till the POTUS Obama campaign (and their Open Friends: Move-on, NYT, NPR, NOW, etc.) get to you.

Here is what I heard at the K-street dinner last night:

- Cain is what Thomas is in the Supreme Court: No issue. Tea party is still bad.
- GOP has no vision, no deliverable. The best GOP for us [WH] is Perry nomination. Inflate Perry at all costs. The most dangerous is Romney. Put the healthcare on his neck at any talking-point.
- GOP has women problem. Example: Bachman, she lives before the women suffrage.
- Etc, etc.

You get it. You guys no nothing. There is no way you can win in 2012. The POTUS Obama team is already drafted the first 100-days of re-elected team. I have seen the draft. The health-care plan is nothing. Once the new term starts, GOP will be dismantled.

Ann Althouse said...

"dude, if I had to look at that I would have erectile disfunction as well."

That doesn't make you sound too virile. She's perfectly nice looking.

Ann Althouse said...

"You guys no nothing."

Cool slogan!

Roger J. said...

edutcher--agree entirely--seems to me the relevant questions for any candidate without a foreign policy resume would be (1) basic princples, and (2) who would they want on their foreign policy team

thanks for the courteous response

CEO-MMP said...

ddh: Barry O'Bama had zero experience. No real job, no verifiable education history (that may be a red flag for Mick, I hope not), he got elected and voted present.

Contrast that with a guy who was in the Navy, got advanced degrees while in the Navy, worked in business and worked his way up in business.

You can't use the no experience tag on Cain. Never having been elected isn't the same as having no experience.

Saint Croix said...

What this says more than anything is that people are unhappy with Perry and Romney. Could Cain take this victory and vault into the frontrunner position? It's possible.

If nobody else comes in.

This would be a good week for a new candidate to announce. Right after the two frontrunners took a shellacking and before Cain can build on his momentum.

ricpic said...

Carol Herman said...

White nitwits.

Shove your anti-white racism, you yenta from hell.

David said...

Straw polls are not elections.

And Huntsman is not a real candidate. He just plays one on TV.

CEO-MMP said...

Althouse thinks Ana Navarro is perfectly nice looking.

Nope. Looks like she chased a parked car.

Plus she has a history of being a very very squishy person. She was all hot for McCrazy last time, this time it's Huntsman. Think about that. From nutbag liberal not really republican to nutbag liberal.

What's next?



And what's with the people pining for Fatso Christie? He's a liberal. He's for gun control and illegal immigration. He believes in MMGW. He's liberal on everything except unions. Those he doesn't like. If Perry is too liberal--and Fatso is to the left of Huntsman--what the fuck does it say about the people who're pining for him?


wv: mentr.
Some of you people need a mentr.

David said...

alan markus said...
Perhaps you should count up the number of previous presidents who had not held a political office prior to their election?

Earlier today I read that Dwight Eisenhower is the most recent example of that.

Eisenhower's job as Supreme Commander in Europe was a political office. His political skills were part of the reason for Marshall choosing him, and a crucial element of Ike's success. It wasn't elective, but it sure was political.

In fact Eisenhower had the most complete background and training for political leadership of any President in the 20th Century.

CEO-MMP said...

David: yes, straw polls aren't elections. This one is a little more serious though, as it's open to registered Republicans likely to vote. No one gets trucked in like Iowa and Cali. No one gets paid $50 for their vote. Bachmann isn't buying people off with free tickets to the the b-b-que.

That's why people are interested.

phx said...

The GOP seems very confused. Not individual members - they probably all know pretty much what they want. But collectively it seems like a very schizophrenic party right now, probably not far from internecine warfare if someone doesn't take command and impose some discipline.

Ultimately, it might be a good thing for Repubs. But I don't think it's looking good for 2012 right now.

Paul said...

"That doesn't make you sound too virile. She's perfectly nice looking."

Really? Um...ok. If you say so.

ic said...

A self-made man who has never been elected is far superior to a Chicago-machine-made man who beat his rival by unsealing his rival's decades old divorce record. A practical Morehouse alum is far superior to a Harvard affirmative puppet.

rick: don't be confused. Cain is not a real black. Like Clarence Thomas, he is a Uncle Tom, someone who is not beholden to liberal establishment's affirmative action.

Cain, a self-reliant black with two black parents is not black. He's acting white.

A black has one white parent who loves to tax $200,000 earners to reward his white billionaire friends, a black who passes the white liberals' test: "clean" (Biden) and doesn't speak negro (Reid), a black who spiels liberal bromide, who does liberals' biddings is the real black. The black who reminds the liberals of the pre-civil war Old South black is the only kind of black for the non-racist leftists.

phx said...

Why all the negative energy towards women?

ricpic said...

Fred4Pres - You should try Freschetta pizza. It ain't half bad. Not home made but for store bought...

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JohnJ said...

“Could Cain take this victory and vault into the frontrunner position? It's possible.”

No it’s not.

Meaningless straw polls allow voters to cast meaningless straw poll votes. (Ask Michele Bachman.) Barring the entry of Chris Christie, which I think is highly unlikely, it’s a two-man race. And even if Christie were to enter, let’s just see how well that Jersey Shore tough-guy shtick wears on the voting public.

Romney’s still the best bet to defeat Obama. He’s not the ideologue conservatives seem to want. But if they ultimately don’t get onboard, they’ll be listening to a reprise of the Grant Park victory speech with the rest of us.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

It ain't gonna happen, but I would love to see a Cain candidacy. Left wing heads would explode all over the politicosphere. It is an article of faith to them that all blacks are Democrats, and if they aren't, they aren't black. The inherent racism of the left would be outlined in arc lights. I don't think they would ever recover from the string of racist statements pouring out of the MSM and Dem politicos.

Dad29 said...

are we supposed to believe that a man who has never held political office could serve as the President of the United States?

Are we supposed to believe that only political office experience qualifies one for the Presidency?

Robert said...

Yawn.

This means nothing. Merely the hopes and dreams of a bunch of particularly partisan individuals. Wholly unrepresentative of the public.

In 2004, one of our Seattle area NPR stations held an impromptu 'caucus' by call-in vote of the listenership, to select its preferred Democrat candidate for president.

Howard Dean was first, with something like 30%. Dennis Kucinich was second, with something like 25%. An expected result of a poll of overly partisan left-wingers with nothing better to do on a workday than listen to the radio and then call in and spend time on hold (which probably further selected the furthest-left, least-employed contingent of the listening audience).

This 2011 straw poll result is no more noteworthy than my 2004 example.

Although may I say that Herman Cain is a sharp, effective speaker, who has the benefit of looking good in a suit, shirtsleeves, and/or behind a podium. I think Clinton's numbers early in the 1992 campaign season were lower than Cain's are now.

We could do worse. Hell, we have.

Saint Croix said...

Make a list of the five worst presidents.

1) Herbert Hoover
2) Woodrow Wilson
3) Richard Nixon
4) Barack Obama
5) Jimmy Carter

It's hard to say just how bad Obama is right now. I'm hopeful we can escape his Administration without real damage to our country.

If he sends us into another Great Depression, he's right there with Hoover.

Wilson, by the way, is easily the most authoritarian President we've ever had. Read up on him. What an asshole!

kcom said...

I wonder what Jeaneane has to say now?

Aug. 18 -
Garofalo: Herman Cain a paid prop to ‘deflect’ charges of GOP racism

Excerpts:

Is it Stockholm syndrome or does somebody pay them? - Referring to women and black members of the GOP

And he was just about to say raise your hand if you support and before he finished, everybody’s hand went up to support Herman Cain. So it seemed as if they had been coached to support Herman Cain. - Referring to a post debate focus group

I wonder if she thinks someone coached (or paid off) the entire state of Florida to vote for Herman Cain?

Oligonicella said...

List from Wikipedia and restricted to elected presidents:

Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Warren G. Harding
*Ulysses S. Grant
Calvin Coolidge

Just for the record, it doesn't look like public office keeps you off the bottom.

Jess said...

America's Politico: I have a question for you.

What do you mean by deliverables? And also, what deliverables do you see the Democrats as having?

Thanks.

Cedarford said...

James said...
Herman Cain isn't going to win the nomination but this straw poll result is a warning to the establishment Republican Party, and a rebuke to Perry and Romney.
=================
No, after a period of Pastor Huckleberry, Ron Paul, then Michelle Bachmann dominating the wins of these evangelical Christian-organized straw polls, Herman Cain won one. It is as significant only in Perry showing serious weakness with the Fundie activists in one state.

Paul has likely hurt himself this year with the Southern Fundies by implying that you don't go to Hell if you fail to do as Israel demands.

Oligonicella said...

Saint Croix --

Different choices, same result, one of five didn't have previous experience.

Cedarford said...

Saint Croix said...
Make a list of the five worst presidents.

1) Herbert Hoover
2) Woodrow Wilson
3) Richard Nixon
4) Barack Obama
5) Jimmy Carter


==============
List won't fly. If you restrict it to Presidents of the last 100 years and ignore early turkeys like Pierce and Buchanan...you drop Nixon and Wilson off the list as disliked Presidents, but leaders of great consequence. (As was LBJ and Truman).

And add Dubya Bush (blind to illegal immigration, the unchallenged Rise of the Chicommies, the gutting of industrial jobs in America, 3 trillion in eternal neocon wars of adventure and nation-building, blind to the meltdown of America's economy).

Older liberal pal said to me a year ago...Obama is worse than Bush. I never thought I'd say it, but what we need is a smart, competent President that kicks ass and gets things done...like LBJ, Nixon, and Reagan did..And I'll deny it, swear I never said it but just between us, having been around for LBJ and NIxon unlike you - they were BETTER than Geirge Bush or Obama."

Five worst Presidents of the last century, in order:

1. Jimmy Carter
2. Barack Obama
3. Herbert Hoover
4. Dubya Bush
5. "clueless" Gerry Ford

edutcher said...

Roger J. said...

edutcher--agree entirely--seems to me the relevant questions for any candidate without a foreign policy resume would be (1) basic princples, and (2) who would they want on their foreign policy team

It's like choosing a Veep.

Witness Dubya's choices in that regard.

Saint Croix said...

Make a list of the five worst presidents.

1) Herbert Hoover
2) Woodrow Wilson
3) Richard Nixon
4) Barack Obama
5) Jimmy Carter


I'd quarrel with Nixon on the basis of his foreign policy moves.

LBJ might be a better choice. The only thing he got right was civil rights.

And, knowing this is arguable, you could also put FDR who, except for the basic decisions about WWII (thanks to George Marshall), managed to get an awful lot wrong

Cedarford said...

Warren Harding gets a pass because while surrounded with Republican corruptocrat cronies, he died early and did not have a chance to be evaluated on a ful term. He was a popular President and might have cleaned up the mess. Had Clinto or Reagan dropped dead early in their Presidencies, both would be regarded as lame acts 1980-82 and 1992-1994.

traditionalguy said...

Herman Cain is an authentic good man from the same Southern Baptist faith tradition as Harry Truman...and Herman is a lot like Truman.

Herman is also over looked by the King Makers until he rises to the top by circumstances anyway, and then his stubborn determination to do good wins the day.

If you don't want another Texan, then roll the dice on another Georgian. But beware of the entitled millionaire's son from Michigan by way of Massachusetts.

Cedarford said...

Romney has implied he is leaning to pick a VP that has solid Tea Party backing, should he, Romney get the Nomination.

Herman Cain is looking likable, he is black for those that think "You Must Have a Female or Black on the ticket to be be legitimate in the eyes of the NY Times and other progressive Jewish-dominated media.

But Herman has some downsides. No elective office experience, stage 4 cancer 4 years ago, a fairly poor economic plan not vetted by anyone that favors the rich (The 9-9-9 regressive tax plan)

Ideally, you would like someone as VP who is plausibly around long enough after a President leaves office to pick up the torch, not be too old to carry on.

That leaves Marco Rubio as the likely VP Front runner if Romney gets the nomination. Perhaps Cain a distant 2nd to 6th place alternate pick.

If Perry is the pick, maybe northeasterner Chris Christie would be viable. (And if Christie has any brains, he says no)

ddh said...

Curious George and CEO-MMP,

I should have said "elected poltical experience." Sure, Cain has more relevant experience as a business executive than Obama had as a legislator. Nonetheless, it would be better for Cain if his resume had an elected political office because politics is not business.

Ike certainly had lots of foreign policy and defense policy experience in SHAEF and NATO (does Cain have comparable?). Hoover had lots of executive experience, running a mining business in China, organizing post-WWI famine relief, and serving as Secretary of Commerce in Coolidge's cabinet, a far more important post in the 1920s than it is now. One can argue that Hoover was better prepared to be President than Eisenhower.

Every choice for a candidate, no matter what strengths he or she possess, involves risk and uncertainty. Cain has lots of good points in his favor, but he does have weaknesses as a candidate. Pointing these out is not the same as saying a candidate has fatal flaws.

With Cain, none of us knows how he will deal with the frustrations of trying to herd the cats in Washington. Will he be able to assemble coalitions to repeal Obamacare? He may have it within him, but it would be nice to be able to point to a time when he did something similar at the state level or in Congress.

gadfly said...

Check out Professor Jacobson's new poll.

Cain is leading in the "Declared" poll -- but he is only second in the "Declared and Undeclared" poll.

viator said...

Herman Cain Sings ‘God Bless America’

YouTube

traditionalguy said...

In Atlanta we value and respect leaders like Herman Cain.

He hasn't got a racist bone in his body. So why should we relegate him to a Black Chess Piece in our mind games.

I know Herman and you can trust that what you see with him is what you get with him.

NYTNewYorker said...

"...you yenta from hell."

I'm thinking something else but this'll work for now.

gadfly said...

Ana Navarro or Anita Perry - this comparison may go a long way toward explaining an erectile dysfunction that only a little blue pill will fix.

NYTNewYorker said...

Morgan Freeman! Call your office you racist, you.

C R Krieger said...

Cedarford hits an important point re the 9% national sales tax.  Otherwise I like Cain.

Regards  —  Cliff

Michael said...

Cain is the real thing, that is for sure. He would make a fine president and would be both leader and example for us all. He would clean Obama's ivy league clock in any one on one, would confound the media, and would do so with great energy and charm and, when needed, bite. He is completely unfull of shit.

Jane said...

Conservatives just don't like Mitt, and they never will.

They were squeamish about Perry, and then he blew it big time.

Herman Cain has fire in his belly. He articulates the conservative position with force. The other "front-runners" just don't do that. Rick Santorum sheepishly said that Cain was an impossible speech to follow.

Perry and Romney just fail at the ideas thing.

It was Cain's speech, which received 7 standing ovations, that put him over the top.

Who knows if he has the experience to back it up.

But Ron Johnson beat Senator Feingold.

May I repeat that? Ron Johnson beat Senator Feingold.

Ha.

NYTNewYorker said...

NEIL CAVUTO: Morgan Freeman, the actor, has been very critical of Tea Parties, and said that what they’re doing is racist based, and going after and unseating Obama has at its underpinnings racism. I’m paraphrasing here, but what do you make of that argument?

HERMAN CAIN: Well, first of all, I doubt if Morgan Freeman, with all due respect, who is a great actor, has he ever been to a Tea Party? Most of the people that are criticizing the Tea Parties, Neil, about having a racist element, they have never been to a Tea Party.

CAVUTO: But wait a minute, wait a minute. He has played, wait, wait, wait. He has played a President of the United States.

CAIN: Oh. Great, yeah, in a movie. This is real life out here on the campaign trail, man. This is not a movie.

CAVUTO: So, are you offended by that?

CAIN: No, I’m not offended by it. I just, I just think that it is sad that they’re so short-sighted in really understanding what the whole Tea Party citizen movement is all about. I’m not offended by it, because it doesn’t slow down my momentum. It doesn’t slow down the reaction that I get from people. They know that I bring my message from the heart and the head, and they’re responding to it. So, name calling is something that’s going to continue in this because they don’t know how to stop this movement. And this movement is making a big difference in politics, because a lot of the traditional Democrats are moving to the center or moving over to vote for conservatives. They’re taking another look at a Herman Cain.

Jane said...

Besides, Herman Cain sings.

Just like Aragorn.

Tea Party Hobbits love the singing, poetic types.

Dad29 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dad29 said...

Tea Party Hobbits love the singing, poetic types.

Meh on the 'singing;' Cain wouldn't make the first cut on Idol.

As to poetic: if he gets Homer, Dante, and Chesterton, the guy is a better man than all the rest combined.

PETER V. BELLA said...

It is time for a person who has never held office to be President. Look at Obama. He held office, did nothing except collect a pay check, and is doing the same thing now.

Joe said...

For what it's worth, here in Utah, amongst my republican coworkers, two are Paul supporters, the rest think Romney is a robot who flipped on Romneycare, but would be a decent president. They ALL mistrust Perry to a huge and surprising degree and see him as a complete phony. All reserve judgement on Herman Cain, but don't think he's electable.

Big Mike said...

I agree with the implication that President of the United States is a bit high up to start learning how to be a politician. I like Herman Cain, and there's no way that he'd be nearly as bad as the present occupant of the Oval Office, but still ...

It's a pity Perry and Rove are on the outs. Perry needs a Rove of his own, and badly.

Perry's success in capping malpractice payouts has been a boon to his state in getting healthcare to its residents, especially those who don't live in or around trendy metropolises. "Loser pays" is a great step forward for small businesses, one that I wonder whether the Professor agrees with. But Texas long ago figured out how to cope with undocumented aliens, and Perry, like McCain and Bush before him, simply can't grasp that they are a net drag every place that isn't Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico.

He's right about the impossibility of building a physical fence along the border with Mexico, though. But there is a way to block illegals using modern technology.

As I've written before, Huntsman is the favorite Republican candidate of people who have absolutely no intention of voting Republican. Navarro's comments reinforce the notion I have had that Huntsman's entire candidacy is a major Democrat black op of sorts. The Washington Post might as well come out and admit that that's the only reason why he gets favorable nods in their columns.

showbiz111 said...

Obama so lowered the bar for the Presidency that Cain gets serious consideration because at least he ran a business well in an executive capacity while all Obama has ever done is run his mouth. If the GOP blows this election, I don't know what I'd do.

PatCA said...

Romney promises a tea party VP? So what?

What good will that do? The VP is the most useless man in Washington. I hope Cain and Ryan and Christie tell him no way and continue to do the work they need to do to solve the fiscal mess we are in.

Fred4Pres said...

If Carol Herman hates Cain, that only makes me like him more.

But I will not eat his chain pizza, unless he wins a primary. Then in his honor I will order a pie. If he wins the general I will have a big Godfathers pizza party.

Oh and the Giants beat the Eagles today, in Philly. Which shows underdogs can win. I am sure Trooper is happy. I know I am.

Jose_K said...

By 1939, the USA army still had a cavalry with horses. Ike took charge of that army with no prior experinece in war.He was ranked as general to be able to do his job because in the wwi he was in an office. By 1942, the USA army was able to fight to wars, one against the technological supreme power and other against the most cruel and ruthless army of modern time(Nankin, Bataan) and support the URSS with tons of material.

A. Shmendrik said...

OldGrouchyCranky said:

@Hagar: I count 5-former presidents who hadn't held elected public office before becoming president: George W., Jackson, Taylor, Grant, and Ike.


What part of "George W." beating Ann Richards ( like a rented car) in 1994 to become Governor of Texas, did you miss?

jayniejaynie said...

Too bad the media and the other candidates don't clue in to Herman Cain's appeal. Every single debate so far Cain has hammered home his position on the issues with concrete ideas that are straight forward, doable and memorable. Simple formula. And very appealing.

Da!

If the dam media, especially the conservative media, would STOP covering the dam polls and focus on the candidates and their positions, we, the conservative, could run and end run around the mainstream media and actually elect our own nominee without media influence.

Carol_Herman said...

Let's clear something up.

I don't think Herman Cain is a viable candidate. I think he is a WHITE JOKE ... used by social conservatives ...

It's UNREAL.

Kapish?

The elder Bush looked to replace Thurgood Marshall's seat (I think). Up on the supremes.

He hunted all over the United States. And, he came up with Clarence Thomas.

Then came an election.

The elder Bush did not gain one single Black vote "extra." And, then he lost his bid to be re-elected.

But go and try to teach the stupid party about the facts of life.

Can't be done.

Joe Schmoe said...

But collectively it seems like a very schizophrenic party right now, probably not far from internecine warfare if someone doesn't take command and impose some discipline.

Sigh. Another fascist lefty longing for a strongman-type. I'm very happy with the GOP jockeying and debating going on right now. It's healthy and constructive. Whoever emerges as the nominee is going to have to earn it, not get anointed by someone imposing 'discipline' (lefty euphemism for lefty worldview). When everyone's thinking the same way there ain't much thinking going on.

Calypso Facto said...

What part of "George W." beating Ann Richards...

I'm pretty sure the W stands for Washington in this case, Shmendrik.

traditionalguy said...

Carol...Why stay stuck on stupid using Race as the almighty issue of issues.

Things are different since 30 years ago.

Cain is a real candidate with competence that makes his skin color irrelevant.

In fall 1944 nobody had heard of Harry Truman outside of Missouri and in Spring of 1945 he was their President for the next 7 years.

Thank God it was Truman and not Henry Wallace.

That difference gave us:
1) dropped A Bombs against Japan to save the lives of the USMC,
2) The Marshall Plan against the GOP to save western Europe from Stalin,
3)The integration of the US Military against the DixieCrats to save the conscience of a nation,
4) A UN action in Korea that Truman stood against McArthur from escalating into the Asian proxy war that JFK?LBJ 13 years later had no guts to keep us out of,
5) the Zionists under Ben Gurion recieving a UN granted Jewish State against the pro-Arab anti-semites in the State Dept.

A strong man who wants to do the right thing is a wonder to behold when he slips into the Presidency.

Yes we Cain!

rick said...

Carol

Herman.

12

sentences.

12

paragraphs.

It's

hard

to

follow.

rcocean said...

Rick,

If you

could follow it

you still

wouldn't care.

rick said...

You

are

probably

correct.

I

skip

all

her

posts

.

JAL said...

You want to make the Dems heads explode?

A Cain / West ticket.

Ha!

JAL said...

I heard Cain discuss his head-to-head in DC over Hillary care back in the 90s. (Including an audio IIRC.)

He was challenged and asked to send his numbers that he used to rebut Hillary ... and never heard from the White House again.

When he was involved with the Federal Reserve (KC?) it was and is the most conservative of the banks? (Not my area of expertise.)

So he has more "experience" than Obama did in the Real World.

tree hugging sister said...

kcom I wonder if she thinks someone coached (or paid off) the entire state of Florida to vote for Herman Cain?

Well, lemme tell ya, since I was there as a delegate for Escambia County, who drove the 7 hours TO Orlando Wednesday afternoon with a Rick Perry song in my heart:

No.

I got told check-in for CPAC was at 8 a.m. Thursday morning, so I hot-foot it over to the Covention Center only to find out I've been lied to, it's 1 p.m., argh! BEAUCOUPS time to kill. 9 a.m., a dapper gent strolls through the front door with just a couple younger guys, heads straight to the big hall, stops to chat (big smiles the whole time) with everyone who stopped HIM and I'm wondering, "Is that Herman Cain?" He came out about 20 minutes later. I think, "what the Hell" and ATTACK. What a pleasant, genuine, accessible person and I sincerely wish him good luck.

But I can't wait to see Rick Perry in action. Neither could most of my friends in the Escambia delegation, who are, for the most part, firmly in the Perry camp.

The debate was a disaster. Unmitigated (and I'm willing to give the immigration thing a pass because we kept W's aspirations in check in that venue) disaster. But every time Cain opened his mouth was magic with substance. He built on that with his rock-the-house CPAC appearance after Perry's was appallingly lacklustre lead-off. Like, "yikes"? Didn't somebody tell him he needed to step it up?

Saturday, almost all were going to give Perry one last shot, that third chance at redemption ("Jesus, buddy...show us SOMETHING?!?!") during the candidates' speeches FOR the P5 delegates. By that time, I was pretty firmly in Cain's camp, but still had an open mind/wanted to be fair.

Herman Cain hit that podium like a house-afire. Not just empty platitudes/Greek Column charisma, either. More importantly, he built on every single thing he'd said in the earlier appearences. We found out about his Naval service as a ballistics analyst, what his energy (Oil ~ something NO ONE had mentioned for THREE days!) policy would be, foreign policy...on and on. The entire 2700+ of us were on our feet at least 7 times, if not more. Talk about winning hearts and minds!

And Rick Perry scuttled out of town. As my girlfriend and fellow delegate, who flipped to Cain from Perry herself over the course of the event, said: "To know him [Perry] is NOT to love him."

Whatever the spin I heard on the drive home yesterday, the truth is that this was no vote to collectively spank Romney for not showing us our proper respect, or to take the GOP "establishment" candidates down a peg or two. This was NOT an orchestrated Tea Party protest. Belive me, TriCorn hats were few and far between in the sea of average folks.

This was about a heartfelt surge of belief that Herman Cain is genuine, supremely competent, invested in this race, invested in this great country, a grand human being and a great American.

Don't let anyone tell you differently.

Jane said...

Carol,

I wish you could walk just one minute in the shoes of ordinary Americans and stop seeing everything with your disgusting racial goggles.

If you haven't seen the viral video where Herman Cain spoke at a rally that brought a former marine to his feet singing and you didn't get goose bumps, then you just don't get it.

How dare you say he's a racial token. How utterly depraved is that kind of thinking.

You know very well Barack Obama is a racial token. You know very well he was chosen over Hillary because of his "cool, historic" features.

And yet Mr. Obama is barely an American in his heart. Whenever he speaks about our history, he gets the facts wrong! My elementary-aged school kids laugh at him over "intercontinental railroad" and "Lincoln founded the Republican party" and his insistence that unions had anything to do with America's greatness.

Herman Cain just has our soul in *his* soul. That's all.