August 26, 2011

George Will said it!

It's been said before, and was said over and over, months ago, but now George Will is saying it.

60 comments:

Mike said...

Er--we have a marketing problem here. If the dogs don't like the dog food, they won't eat it.

Same problem with union dues. And now we're going to have to lay off a whole bunch of people.

edutcher said...

George Will, the Perrier Conservative, says a lot of things.

This time, however, he's right.

Walker has worked prodigies in WI and has given the country a model for turning things around.

I can see why Trumka is feeling a bit discomfited.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)


You just wait ‘til we recall Walker. To save Garage any trouble…

For C4 and “J” and those in the cabal:

John has a long moustache

The barber’s wife is tickled

Chuck66 said...

Someone has to pay for those high salaries and travel and whatnot of WEAC execs. Pretty nice gig for being a form of community organizer.

Perhaps if WEAC was run like a business, they would find a much cheaper way to do things. Then they could charge way less in annual dues. Say $100 or $200 a year instead of...is it $800?

bagoh20 said...

What does it say about people who have such a difficult time accepting the truth? Not people I want teaching my kids.

This change is good, and could save us from the devastating effects of poorly educating our population for decades, but is it too little too late?

We have more than a generation of very poorly educated people entering the workforce now. They really aren't capable of competing globally in the coming decades. It will take a long time and a lot of luck to turn it around. This is an incredible challenge for us.

Which nation is sitting better, China who has millions of very poor, but is educating tons of engineers, or the U.S. who have a relatively rich population who aren't learning shit.

We're like a fat old wildebeest and the lion cubs are getting ready to try their hand at hunting for dinner.

Chuck66 said...

Most teachers I know are very non-political. They actaully like teaching. Especially the elementry education ones. Paying several hundred dollars a year to an angry union really isn't their thing.

Kind of like the non-political student at a large lefty college. They see the wackos doing their angry protests over every little thing (such as bottled water) but just kind of laugh and head off to socialize with their friends. They have no interest in joining the politized students. Many teachers may have no interest in writing a check to a politized union.

Jeff in Oklahoma said...

Fascinating post Professor. The statistics cited by Will are very interesting, but he didn't cite his sources (not that I think he is skewing the numbers, but his sources may be). His notation about union healthcare providers also raised an eyebrow.

Wonder what Trumka is feeling about the facts posted in the American Thinker yesterday:

In Walker's first six months in office, Wisconsin added a net of 39,000 jobs, including 14,000 in manufacturing. The remainder were in agriculture, tourism, biotech and medical technology.
In June, Walker earned boasting rights that half of the new jobs in the entire country -- a shocking and paltry 19,000 -- were created in his state. In the same month, Democrat Illinois next door lost 7,000 jobs. (For more on Illinois jobs, see this - ed.)
Not only did Wisconsin add private sector jobs, they trimmed government jobs by 3,000. Instead of leading to disaster, 12,500 private jobs were added, leading to the one month total of 9,500 net new jobs.

ndspinelli said...

We actually have a Waterloo, and they are the home of Trek bikes[a progressive corporation that takes care of its people] and the annual sauerkraut festival, some good eating and even better farting. It's coming up on Sept 10th. The official name is Weiner and Kraut Days.

There is a classic pickle and sauerkraut factory in town. Ironically, for years they had these beautiful huge oak barrells for curing the pickles. The govt. made them throw them out and go w/ plastic!!

Chuck66 said...

3M announced a new facility in Menomonie Wisconsin. Will employ 25 people. Not a huge number but not insignificant either. And 3M will be a good employer.

Unline is moving their upper midwest distribution center to Hudson Wisconsin.

Jeff in Oklahoma said...

You could accuse me of piling on, and be correct (from Stephen Moore WSJ):

Both inherited an American economy in collapse. And both applied daring, expensive remedies. Mr. Reagan passed the biggest tax cut ever, combined with an agenda of deregulation, monetary restraint and spending controls. Mr. Obama, of course, has given us a $1 trillion spending stimulus.

By the end of the summer of Reagan's third year in office, the economy was soaring. The GDP growth rate was 5% and racing toward 7%, even 8% growth. In 1983 and '84 output was growing so fast the biggest worry was that the economy would "overheat." In the summer of 2011 we have an economy limping along at barely 1% growth and by some indications headed toward a "double-dip" recession.


I've read (too-often) that "the One" has a remarkable intellect. I wonder if he possesses any measure of humility to recognize that what he is doing simply isn't working?

Scott M said...

I'm wondering if we can get some plucky research type to vet his numbers on union membership in states that have done away with doing the unions' job of collecting their money.

Is it really that bad (er, good)?

garage mahal said...

It's been said before, and was said over and over, months ago, but now George Will is saying it.

So the thesaurus bag of jello agrees this will benefit Walker and Republicans. It's almost like that was the sole purpose. Awesome.

chickenlittle said...

Triumph des Will's!

____________
wv = "untingly" Chris Matthews, update

Scott M said...

Saving money on health insurance and preventing layoffs and/or increasing hiring of teachers is a benefit. If the GOP was in office when it happened, they benefit.

When a union forces it's member to buy expensive health insurance from a single provider they're in bed with, who benefits? The politicians and the health insurance provider or the teachers?

MarkG said...

"Democrats furiously oppose Walker because public employees unions are transmission belts, conveying money to the Democratic Party."

I'd call that corruption. Public employee unions should be illegal.

Erik said...

I don't have a problem with unions in principle. I do have a problem with the forced membership and dues. Unions lost their way and became a means to use the government against the taxpayer. I imagine that after a few years of fending for themselves, union members will relearn an old skill they once knew very well: organizing. Without the state doing all their work for them, maybe they'll rediscover their true purpose and once again be something I can respect rather than loathe.

SunnyJ said...

My first real job was picking pickles for the Waterloo pickle factory. I was 14, worked with the migrants, riding along on machine with conveyor belt runing, bent over all day, picking pickels and putting them on the belt.

Decided then and there to get a life. Now the only pickles I pick are in my own garden on my own farm. I carry a food stamp bill in my wallet from those times to remind me of where I'm from, how hard work got me out, and that I needed help then, and can help someone else now.

There is a big difference between in the meantime and this is it! I saw how easy it would have been to get used to the assistance and I saw many do that and be happy about it. But I also saw many like me that took the helping hand, used it to get going on their own, and moved on.

Dependence comes at many levels, picking pickles levels and multimillion levels. Living off of someone else, anyone else robs most humans of the great feeling of independence.

I don't have much by many standards but what I have I earned, and that is plenty for me. I am quick to give a hand, but don't hold onto it too long or you'll feel the back of it upside your head. Not because I don't love you, because I do.

Jeff in Oklahoma said...

FWIW, from Hot Air (http://hotair.com/archives/2011/08/26/a-tale-of-two-cities-wisconsin-edition/):

Many districts, including Oshkosh, have previously tried to switch providers for lower rates, but local unions staunchly refused the offers. They argued for-profit companies would make up the difference with larger rate hikes in future years.

But unions no longer have a say in the matter since the state Legislature approved a law preventing most public sector unions’ from bargaining over anything but wages.

The district could realize millions of dollars in immediate savings by seeking a new provider. Appleton schools stuck with WEA Trust but saved $3.1 million by stirring up competition. The Kimberly school district dropped WEA Trust and saved $821,000.


The whole thing is worth a read, especially the bit about Former Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz.

Is this piling on too?

Lance said...

Will is wrong. Wisconsin wasn't the final battle, unions are not dead, Democrats are down, but they're not out. Krauthammer said it better: there won't be a conservative mandate until tea party conservatives win in 2012.

In Will's metaphor, Wisconsin might turn out to be unions' Battle of Leipzig. But there's plenty of campaigning to be done before that can be confirmed.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
So the thesaurus bag of jello agrees this will benefit Walker and Republicans. It's almost like that was the sole purpose. Awesome

No sorry, Garage it helps WI…or do you think it unfair if McDonald’s “profits” from providing decent food at a good price?

Or the tu quoque…YOU only dislike it because it hurts DEMOCRATS.

Scott M said...

I'd rather see the unions as the residents of Dresden and be done with it.

MadisonMan said...

Liberals' Wisconsin Waterloo is mildly tongue twisterish. Like the White Wicker Rocker I have for sale.

garage mahal said...

No sorry, Garage it helps WI

The EPI estimates that Act 10 will cost the state 1 billion in economic activity. Yesssssss! *fist pump*

traditionalguy said...

You told us about a writing project.

Is George Will a pen name?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
The EPI estimates that Act 10 will cost the state 1 billion in economic activity. Yesssssss! *fist pump

So cheaper healthcare and teachers NOT let go is BAD for the WI economy, Garage?

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... No sorry, Garage it helps WI…or do you think it unfair if McDonald’s “profits” from providing decent food at a good price?..."

Probably. I think that is the inherent problem with liberals, the idea that someone is making a buck off someone else drives them into fits.

Hell just look at the vitriol they heap on Walmart. Its just downright fucking evil that a company can provide decent quality, low cost goods to lower and middle income folks.

Scott M said...

estimates

like...

-Jobs created or saved
-Federal budget surplus
-CBO numbers you never supported when B challenged you the other day
-GDP growth to support bending the curve
-Keynesian multipliers

traditionalguy said...

Sunny J...You can't full me.

Picking pickles means cucumber harvesting.

Or was that a cannery job?

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... So cheaper healthcare and teachers NOT let go is BAD for the WI economy, Garage?.."

Don't even bother. If a Republican cured cancer he'd still think the dude was Satan.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
If a Republican cured cancer he'd still think the dude was Satan

Well, YEAH, think of all the hospital/long-term care/hospice workers let go! AND some nasty, corporation would be “profiting from someone’s illness and pain!” My bad….

Hoosier Daddy said...

Pornstar producer: Ok so you have a 12 inch dong?

Me: Well, it's an estimate.

Pornstar producer: Next!

Joe Schmoe said...

Joe the Crypto Jew in response to garage marshall:
Or the tu quoque…YOU only dislike it because it hurts DEMOCRATS.

It actually helps Democrats too. At least the working class Democrats that the Dem pols supposedly revere. The massive decrease in health insurance costs (that the WEAC bedfellows suddenly agreed to) SAVED teacher jobs in districts up and down the state. There were deficits all over the place. Renegotiating the rates on teacher health insurance eradicated deficits in many places, including Milwaukee, thus saving many school districts from making staff cuts.

How did the insurance carrier suddenly drop rates up to %70-%80 in some cases? Dems can bitch all they want about private corporations; what this insurance company was doing (way overcharging relative to market rates complicit with its monopoly guaranteed by the teacher's union) was criminal.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Former Madison Mayor Dave Cieslewicz extended several city labor contracts in February.//
. And AFSCME endorsed Cieslewicz’s campaign.
But now the results are painfully clear for city residents.
City agencies just proposed laying off 38 cops and 27 firefighters while reducing salt and sand on covered streets during winter. The agencies also proposed eliminating the school crossing guard program and reducing lifeguards at beaches while closing some city skating rinks.


From HotAir.com I see the benefits of the then-current PEU negotiations, Garage, because this sort of thing has TREMENDOUS POSITIVE ECONOMIC impact….

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
It actually helps Democrats too. At least the working class Democrats that the Dem pols supposedly revere

Key word, “Supposedly”…what they revere is the money flowing into the coffers of the union and then their campaigns…and laid-off teachers are great martyrs….I realize you and I are not in disagreement, BTW. Just riffing on our post…Garage SAYS he cares about the employees, but full employment and cheaper healthcare means very little to him….

Joe Schmoe said...

garage, you should go read Greg Sargent in the WaPo online. He's whining how wrong Will is. The talking point now is that Walker wasn't elected to bust unions and poll after poll supports that.

Except Walker never busted the union. There's still a union. If people don't want to voluntarily contribute to be in the union, then that's the union's problem. The union needs to provide more value to their dues-paying members. Welcome to the real world, bitches!

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
The talking point now is that Walker wasn't elected to bust unions and poll after poll supports that
FDR wasn’t elected to fight and defeat the Nazi’s either, but he did…Dubya wasn’t elected to wage a Global War on Terror, but he did…that’s one of the more stupid talking points I’ve heard of…Lincoln wasn’t elected, the first time, to fight the Civil War, either…

Robert Cook said...

So what if "George Will said it!"?

It's not as if he's the Oracle of Delphi; he's just another mainstream media putz!

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Walker didn't bust any union. He busted the money laundering scam the unions were running in order to funnel taxpayer cash to the DNC. I can see why the left doesn't want to talk about that.

garage mahal said...

Slightly off topic:
The Sheriff's report on the Prosser/Bradley incident has been released. Pretty interesting. And I bet we won't see a post on it.

Prosser: "Did my hands touch her neck? Yes, I admit that. Did I try to touch her neck, no, absolutely not, it was a total reflex.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
And I bet we won't see a post on it
You live to be proven wrong don’ you Garage? Or do you not actually READ Althouse….see new page, hit “Refresh” on the main page, dood/doodette.

Scott M said...

That's got to be some kind of record, Joe.

deborah said...

I have a soft spot for George Will.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
That's got to be some kind of record, Joe
Garage has a talent, there is no doubt…

Shouting Thomas said...

It's not as if he's the Oracle of Delphi; he's just another mainstream media putz!

Kookie called some other person a putz!

Jesus, I laughed my ass off over that one, Kookie.

It's not like you're the reincarnation of V.I. Lenin. I know you'd like to be.

Lance said...

According to The Nation, Wisconsin was Waterloo for Republicans.

Carol_Herman said...

All this stuff cost the union PLENTY! This is a good thing, all by itself.

It's like watching your enemies running through their ammunition supplies. When all they get for setting them off is fireworks.

Sure. ENTERTAINING! Or, in the Internet world: VIRAL.

People, by the way ... don't walk out of one church ... into some other. They just walk out. So the democraps are hemorrhaging members. Just as the GOP does.

Where will the votes be, ahead?

With the Independents.

George Will doesn't write for an Independent audience. He screeds for the Conservatives.

It doesn't "change" how you'd "score" an election.

What does get scored by the insiders? What they spent ... including stuff where they sent out people knocking on doors.

Or aggressive agitation at the Rotunda ... Where they tried to scare away Ann, Meade, and her son. Caplight, for good measure.

And, then David R. Graham spelling out the strategy. It's not "politics," when things get done with military precision.

Don't sell strategy short.

Widely Seen said...

Like a stock exchange transaction, there are two parties to a battle. There was a winner at Waterloo!

J said...

Georgie Will overlooks the real motive for Walker and the WI-TP's "reforms": the GOP finance boys want a cut of teachers' pension money (and all PE unions). The anti-unionist hysteria is mostly a ruse, since they still exist--probably strengthened.

In effect, all Walker did was to have the names of his finance companies (ie, related to Kochs) and HC insurance providers included on the teacher's retirement and HC brochures. That doesn't at all mean they will change their plans.

For that matter, the TP macho-men (like the Alttards) are cool with bullying teachers. Let's see them take on the cops or firemen with the same sort of macho tactics.

Lem said...

"George Will said it!"

By George.. he did put it together so succinctly a caveman could understand it.

I had no idea it was so bad for the unions.

Lem said...

I have a soft spot for George Will.

You are not alone.

Jay said...

garage mahal said...
Slightly off topic:
The Sheriff's report on the Prosser/Bradley incident has been released. Pretty interesting. And I bet we won't see a post on it.



And of course there is not 1, but two posts.

You are beyond parody.

Joanna said...

J said...
Georgie Will overlooks the real motive for Walker and the WI-TP's "reforms": the GOP finance boys want a cut of teachers' pension money (and all PE unions). The anti-unionist hysteria is mostly a ruse, since they still exist--probably strengthened.
[etc]

Can't. Type.
Laughing. Too. Hard.

geokstr said...

garage mahal said...
The EPI estimates that Act 10 will cost the state 1 billion in economic activity. Yesssssss! *fist pump*


I took a look at the website of the supposedly "non-partisan" "public interest" EPI (Economic Policy Institute). What a joke.

Every analyis says "right to work laws suck", "Paul Ryan's budget to throw granny off cliff", "regulations create jobs". Who runs that thing - the DNC or the CPUSA?

Might as well call the mainstream media "unbiased" "objective" "journalists" instead of Lewinskys for Obama.

Calypso Facto said...

garage mahal said...
The EPI estimates ...

EPI! Snicker.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

It's not as if he's the Oracle of Delphi; he's just another mainstream media putz!

At least we agree on something.

:-D

catondan said...

Is there another side to Will's comments? It is always possible to reduce coverage and come up with a less costly health care package. Companies attempt this all the time. What is appropriate coverage for members is not just a money issue but cost of visits, meds and selection of services.
As far as mandatory union dues,should the costs of negotiation (salaries and expenses)be borne by the members who will benefit or only 15% who voluntarily choose to pay? It also makes a weak negotiation stance if you only represent 20% or your group.
Are all unions and negotiations evil? Must we depend on the kindness of the bosses for benefits and work conditions ?

SunnyJ said...

@TraditionalGuy, their cucumbers if you leave them grow and sell them fresh. It's pickle picking when you pick the little guys used only for pickling and by the way, a seed intended for pickles not salad slicing etc.

I was a kid, so "picking pickles" rolled nicely off my tongue and made lite of what was a pretty tough day.

Actually, I stopped at several Amish produce farms last week and they had bushels of "picklers" labled and cucumbers (slicing style) marked as such. They don't even get to use the conveyor belt.

Big Mike said...

All Walker needs is to ask the voters is whether they're better off today than they were before the election.

The only people who cannot answer "yes" are union officials, and even then only officials of public unions.

Well, plus some Democrat pols who will have to do more than simply drop by the union headquarters to get their millions in campaign funds.

And a bunch of dairy farmers who are being impacted by regulations from an EPA gone crazy. But they're not likely to vote Democrat in 2012 or ever again for that matter. (No sense crying over spilled milk? There is when the EPA equates it with toxic sludge fouling the groundwater.)

Ralph L said...

Must we depend on the kindness of the bosses for benefits and work conditions ?
About 80% of the country does. They're actually called "Market forces", not bosses, and we depend on them for our continuing employment. What makes you so special?

Impacted Wisdom Truth said...

“There, succinctly, is liberalism’s credo: If everything isn’t “free,” meaning paid for by someone else, nothing will be safe.”

Sort of gives a bizarro meaning to “Live Free Or Die” doesn’t it?