July 29, 2011

"Recall campaigns aren't focusing on collective bargaining."

Reports the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
The plan to eliminate most collective bargaining for public employees may be the issue that sparked this year's recall campaigns against six Republican state senators, but neither side is talking much about that issue now as the elections approach.

Instead, Democrats are telling voters Republicans have gone the wrong way with the state budget by cutting schools by nearly $800 million and providing tax breaks to businesses and investors. Republicans are touting their ability to honestly balance the state budget and keep a lid on taxes.

"Both parties have decided that (collective bargaining) doesn't have any traction," said Michael Kraft, a professor of political science at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay.
So the shocking outrages the touched of the protests don't move the voters, and the recall elections are like normal elections, asking voters whether they'd like their next helping of legislation to be conservative or liberal. In which case, let's relive what was, I think, the most trenchant commentary about the recall elections: "Isn't that a crime?"

ADDED: David Blaska says:
The national Weekly Standard finds that only Milwaukee and Kenosha laid off teachers because they rushed to do contracts before the Walker collective bargaining reforms became law....

Maybe that is why Democrats in the nine recall districts aren't talking about collective bargaining....

It's just not a winning issue for them. Keep in mind that only 14 percent of Wisconsin's workforce is unionized. The 7.6 percent who are unemployed are even less sympathetic to a public employee with enviable job security paying a little something for a pension that enables them to retire in their 50s.
Blaska links to Deke Rivers at Caffeinated Politics, who initially supported recalling Republicans and now says:
I can be as partisan as anyone, but I also like the game of politics to be played with some reasonableness.  Had I known that not a word would seemingly appear about the collective bargaining issue in the Democratic campaigns this summer I never would have supported a recall effort.

All of the concerns that Democrats seem intent on talking about these past weeks are ones that should have been left for the 2012 elections....
Exactly. Recall elections should be reserved for extraordinary circumstances.

Blaska also points to Arnold Shober, professor of political science at Appleton's Lawrence University:
"For the Republicans, they do not want to remind people that public school teachers are unhappy, because most people have (a) good feeling about teachers," Shober explained in an email exchange. "For the Democrats, they don't want people to be reminded that public employees can retire in their 50s and enjoy a second lifetime supported in part by taxes. Thus, collective bargaining is not really a winning issue for either party."
If they don't want to talk about it, that means there shouldn't have been a recall campaign in the first place. We're back to ordinary party politics and... isn't that a crime?

85 comments:

gerry said...

But...but...I thought it was right of government employees to collectively bargain that was the issue.

If that doesn't gain traction in the workers' paradise of Wisconsin, how can it succeed in Ohio?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Democrats don't want to talk about the CB changes because they have worked. Republicans don't want to talk about the CB changes because they are stupid.

edutcher said...

Haven't the school budgets improved (from 1.5M in the red to 400K in the black) because of these reforms?

If so, the Demos are shooting themselves in the foot again.

Crimso said...

Why don't you just have elections every third Tuesday of the month? Or every Tuesday? This whole recall thing has turned out to be about that sort of system.

Curious George said...

"edutcher said...
Haven't the school budgets improved (from 1.5M in the red to 400K in the black) because of these reforms?

If so, the Demos are shooting themselves in the foot again." Yes. For example in Roberta Darling's Senate District all the school districts are fine. Walker's BRB has allowed them to deal with the budget cuts, balance their budgets without laying off teachers or cutting programs. That's not stopping the democrats from running commercials about "Devastating school cuts".

Original Mike said...

"For example in Roberta Darling's Senate District all the school districts are fine. Walker's BRB has allowed them to deal with the budget cuts, balance their budgets without laying off teachers or cutting programs."

Are the Republicans smart enough to be running ads saying so?

Chuck66 said...

As usual the Republicans can't communicate properly. Its like Ryan's plan to save Medicare. It takes about 5 minutes to explain the entire situation and what his plan does. While the Democrats use a 5 second sound bite "Ryan wants to eliminate Medicare".

Chuck66 said...

I think we need to get a recall going against Kathleen "fleebagger" Vinehout.

SunnyJ said...

Got my Organizing For America (OFA) Obama election committee email to meet in Portage WI to organize to help with the recall.

This isn't about collective bargaining at all, and never has been.

Alex said...

As usual the Republicans can't communicate properly.

Please explain what GOP are failing to communicate. It's hard to defend against charges of gutting schools.

Chuck66 said...

SunnyJ, so true. Barry's people were also involved in the capital protests this spring.

Curious George said...

"Original Mike said...

Are the Republicans smart enough to be running ads saying so?"

Yes. As the professor has correctly said it's the same ads you always see. If I were the GOP I would MAKE it an issue of the public unions. These recalls have nothing to do with "school cuts" so I would say "This is a lie. The schools are fine. This is about the teacher's unions wanting you to pay for their largess. You want to pay more in taxes so the teachers can have their extravagant compensation? Vote for my opponent. If you don't, vote for me. Because that's what this is about".

Joanna said...

If so, the Demos are shooting themselves in the foot again.

Great. Now Democrats will be insisting upon a New Foot tax.

Curious George said...

"Alex said...

Please explain what GOP are failing to communicate. It's hard to defend against charges of gutting schools."

Please name one school district that waited for Walker's BRB to become law before signing a contract with the union that has been gutted. Just one.

Original Mike said...

"It's hard to defend against charges of gutting schools."

No it's not. Curious George said:

"For example in Roberta Darling's Senate District all the school districts are fine. Walker's BRB has allowed them to deal with the budget cuts, balance their budgets without laying off teachers or cutting programs."

If a monkey can do it, why can't Republicans?

Chuck66 said...

Alex, we have a huge budget issue and Walker fixed it without layoffs or tax increases. I know our gov't employees a pissed because they now have to contribute to their generous benefits, but I have no sympathy for them. After all, once they reach age 55 they can just retire anyway.

There are other tools Walker has given them, such as the ability to shop around for insurance, instead of having to use the unions insurance arm, which to no ones suprise, is by far the most expensive.

Chuck66 said...

Alex, know what else, if the Democrats get back in control, they will do very little different. It's just like Barry...he lied about Gitmo, ending the war in Iraq, illegel warrantless domestic spying, military trials, and on and on and on.

Original Mike said...

"If I were the GOP I would MAKE it an issue of the public unions. These recalls have nothing to do with "school cuts" so I would say "This is a lie. The schools are fine. This is about the teacher's unions wanting you to pay for their largess. You want to pay more in taxes so the teachers can have their extravagant compensation? Vote for my opponent. If you don't, vote for me. Because that's what this is about"."

Somebody please hire this guy to write their campaign ads.

Chuck66 said...

Curious G....I was surprised how greedy my school teacher relatives are. All of us in the real world have had to deal with job cuts, pay cuts, super long hours, etc.

My relatives are nice people, so I was surprised by their "me first" attitudes. How all they care about is how much money then can make and how little they are willing to pay into their benefits. But hey, when you work 9 months a year, your pretty worn out by age 55.

Alex said...

The point is the narrative is "GOP guts schools". That resonates with easily swayed voters.

Alex said...

Popular narratives:

* GOP guts schools
* GOP stands up for rich folks
* GOP guts the middle class
* GOP are warmongering fascists
* Dems stand up for the little guy

garage mahal said...

For example in Roberta Darling's Senate District all the school districts are fine.

Amazing the Kochs just dropped 400k into that district. Are they just oblivious to all the great new tools?

Chuck66 said...

Alex, you pretty much have crazy Shelly Moore's ads down perfectly. She is running TV and radio ads non-stop saying Sheila Harsdorf is some evil capitalist who is only for the evil corporations.

Original Mike said...

"Amazing the Kochs just dropped 400k into that district. Are they just oblivious to all the great new tools?"

You know what? In the past, I'd ask what you're talking about. But I don't give a fuck anymore. Time and again, when I or others have spent the effort to track down your claims, they were disingenous and deceptive. And I think you are smart enough to have known it.

Chuck66 said...

GM has been on "Jew Watch" again and is worried about greedy Jew businessmen controling the country through a secret society.

Joanna said...

The Isthmus published a list of all individual donors, and the Koch Bros. weren't mentioned.

Curious George said...

School Districts in Roberta Darling's Senate District

"The Germantown school district's proposed budget does not call for any staffing or program cuts, according to Superintendent Patrick Gabriel"

"In closing, the passage of Act 10 will revolutionize how we operate public schools in Wisconsin. The
tools provided in the bill will be fully utilized in the Mequon-Thiensville School District to ensure that all possible resources are being provided to students in the classroom."

"Menomonee Falls:“We do have a balanced budget to go forward with in the 2011-12 school year that will serve the kids well,” said Jeff Gross, director of business services."

Devastating!

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
For example in Roberta Darling's Senate District all the school districts are fine.

Amazing the Kochs just dropped 400k into that district. Are they just oblivious to all the great new tools?"

Need to offset Democrat and union lies. Facts are stubborn things as you can see from my post above.

garage mahal said...

Time and again, when I or others have spent the effort to track down your claims, they were disingenous and deceptive. And I think you are smart enough to have known i

And time after time I provide a link proving my point. You just don't like it.

Club for Growth pours 400k into Darling's district

If all these great new tools were so awesome, you would think Republicans in Republican districts would be way ahead.

Curious George said...

More in Darling's Senate District:

"Hundreds of others decided to wait like Shorewood...Whitefish Bay and Brown Deer. Our investigation finds that virtually every district that signed a new deal got the same basic concessions on health care and pensions. Koczela says, "Almost every single other district that signed an extended contract signed it with the wind of the budget repair bill at their back."

Devastating!

Calypso Facto said...

garage said: Koch Bros!!11!!!

According to the latest Wisconsin Government Accountability Board filings, the Koch Industries PAC has disbursed $100 so far this season. Meanwhile the WEAC PAC just disbursed $500,000 LAST WEEK.

David said...

They are using their best issue.

The Republicans aren't being helped by the debt limit fiasco, which tarnishes all incumbents.

Heart_Collector said...

Dick...meet mouth.

geokstr said...

garage mahal says:
Amazing the Kochs just dropped 400k into that district. Are they just oblivious to all the great new tools?


Garage, do you post over at the Volokh Conspiracy as "rpt"? Because he, like you, brings up the evil Charles and David whenever he has no other argument, even on posts that don't even tangentially have anything to do with them. And also, always without credible links. And both of you started attacking them, coincidentally, I'm almost nearly somewhat certain (mostly), at the exact same time when the Obama admin, the media, and the leftwing blogs simultaneously started attacking them. Is there some sort of "Kocholist", where all you liars and spinners get emails from the Big O himself on what to say next?

Regarding the health of the WI school districts under the cruel and inhuman draconian cuts of Walker's budget, here is a good summary. Seems the only school districts that are still hurting are the ones that rammed through these wondrous collectivist bargaining contracts while Judge SueMe's edict was still in effect. Another big fat coincidence, surely.
Walker’s Vindication:
The controversial Wisconsin budget reform saves teachers’ jobs

Curious George said...

garage mahal said...

If all these great new tools were so awesome, you would think Republicans in Republican districts would be way ahead."

If the BRB was so bad, why would the unions be putting so much money into it? from your link:

"labor is investing big money in the recall wars too, via a major ad campaign being waged by the labor-backed We Are Wisconsin."

As I have shown, despite these union backed commercials saying that there have been devastating cuts to schools, every single school district in Darling's district is fine. Every one.

No rebuttal brings these stupid strawmen.

Heart_Collector said...

Bushman of the Kohlrabi

Is that a pic of Bobs Big Boy mascot?

wv-hothirr- Why go on vacation during the summer when its plenty hothirr.

Calypso Facto said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

In fairness, labor is investing big money in the recall wars too, via a major ad campaign being waged by the labor-backed We Are Wisconsin.

Garage, I read your link, a lefty columnist at WaPo, and it doesn't support your claim. I'm afraid you have lost what credibility you had when I started reading this blog.

Calypso Facto said...

OMG, lefty Greg Sargent says that lefty org OneWisconsin says that it ESTIMATES from it's internal sources that Club for Growth, which may or may not have current Koch Bros. contributions, spent money on Darling ads? That's some incriminating stuff there!

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

@Heart Collector

Not specifically Bob's Bigboy. In my neck of the woods they were called Marc's Bigboy. Different name, same mascot. In addition to Bob's and Marc's, there were also Elias Brothers and Shoney's. I believe there were many others as well.

Original Mike said...

That crap about the Ryan Budget scoring $1T in war cuts (that I bought hook, line and sinker) was the last straw, garage.

Carol_Herman said...

"FOCUSED?" Like this was supposed to be an eye-test?

This is "THE HORROR" of democraps, teachers, and unionistas, waking up to watch their strenghs FLAT LINING.

And, they want to change the direction of the roll. So, they went for recall.

They went for a lot of them!

Here, in California. When ENRON was feasting on California's public till, the governor was a democrap. GRAY DAVIS!

Do you know how politically ambiousious Gray Davis was? He thought he had the political connections to make it from the governor's office into the presidency!

But ENRON had him flopping on his face. And, people in California were FURIOUS.

Along came a conservative fella: Tom Campbell. He thought he'd pull off the "recall" ... and it would be his turn to become governor of California.

BUT. HIS. PLANS. WENT. AWRY.

This happened when Arold Schwartzenegger smelling opportunity ... flopped himself into the race's repbulican slot. And, as you know, took the prize. 8 years worth. 2 terms. On Tom Cambell's dime.

Outcomes in races are just never guaranteed. But they are fought over!

And, people vote.

Alex said...

Calypso Facto - why not be out & proud about Koch money? You seem awfully defensive about it.

Original Mike said...

"Garage, I read your link, a lefty columnist at WaPo, and it doesn't support your claim."

That's the way it always is. The man's a serial liar.

Calypso Facto said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

The point is tying the GOP rep to the Koch brothers is very effective tactic. Seen by voters as being tied to the hip with big fat-cat GOP corporate sponsors is not the ticket in swing districts.

Calypso Facto said...

Alex, I really don't care to whom the Kochs give their money. Just (futilely, I'm sure) trying to diffuse GM's oft-displayed Kochaphobia.

Sorry all for the multiple spelling related deletions.

wv: irrol

Mispelings r just how irrol.

Original Mike said...

"The point is tying the GOP rep to the Koch brothers is very effective tactic."

Says who?

garage mahal said...

According to the latest Wisconsin Government Accountability Board filings, the Koch Industries PAC has disbursed $100 so far this season.

LOL.

garage mahal said...

That crap about the Ryan Budget scoring $1T in war cuts (that I bought hook, line and sinker) was the last straw, garage.

So the Ryan plan didn't include those war savings?

B said...

Original Mike said...That's the way it always is. The man's a serial liar.

Or just one of the utterly fucking stupid sheep Saul Alinsky's cookbook tactics assume will parrot whatever mile-wide inch deep story they are fed.

However, as garage stops disseminating a story here once it's thoroughly exposed as a lie, only to unapologetically reissue it a few days later (right out of Alinky's bokk by the way), it appears that he realizes that it is an indefensible lie.

My vote is that he is a melding of the two stereotypes progressive foot soldiers are drawn from.

He is an utterly fucking stupid liar.

Original Mike said...

Bite me.

Original Mike said...

"Or just one of the utterly fucking stupid sheep Saul Alinsky's cookbook tactics assume will parrot whatever mile-wide inch deep story they are fed."

I used to think that, but not anymore. You can see him trying to do it again. I'm not going to play anymore.

garage mahal said...

I could give a fuck if you believe it or not. I don't really care either. Have fun in the minority, that's all that matters to me.

Original Mike said...

I heard a great suggestion yesterday regarding war "savings". If we didn't invade Pakistain, that would save another $1T. Don't invade Egypt; $1T in savings. And can you imagine how many trillions we'd save if we don't invade China?

Scott M said...

Have fun in the minority, that's all that matters to me.

Are you suggesting that winning is all that matters to you?

Ralph L said...

enjoy a second lifetime supported in part by taxes
What happens when Black Jesus is no longer President?

Original Mike said...

If by minority you mean being on the side that thinks everybody is better off if we live within our means, I'll wear that badge proudly.

B said...

Original Mike said...If by minority you mean being on the side that thinks everybody is better off if we live within our means, I'll wear that badge proudly.

garage believes the majority's interests are defined by the interests of politicians, unions, puppet heads, and drum tapping professional protesters.

garage mahal said...

You mean a bunch of crazy confederates with suicide belts willing to blow up what's left of this economy. I'll take majority.

Curious George said...

"garage mahal said...
I don't really care either. Have fun in the minority, that's all that matters to me."

Finally, the truth.

That wasn't so hard now was it?

B said...

Original Mike said...I used to think that, but not anymore...

Actually, I've pointed out several times already by easily debunking his comments that he is first and foremost a liar. Extending garage the benefit of the doubt assuming he is ignorant, misinformed, incapable of understanding the provenance and validity of information, or unable to distinguish the difference between opinion and fact, is cutting him slack he doesn't deserve. I think he is all that - utterly fucking stupid - but he is first and foremost an alinsky progressive and so by definition a presumptive and reflexive liar.

garage mahal said...

B, you're too fucking stupid to debunk anything.

Alex said...

garage seems to be amazingly prescient on the outcome of the recall elections.

n.n said...

I wonder if the Democrats will be punished for creating a dysfunctional government. That seems to be the principal concern and prevailing admonishment of Republicans in the national debate.

How dare they be obstructionists.

For some reason.. No, I know the reason. Promises of instant gratification are sufficient to corrupt many people, especially when it occurs through coerced redistributive change (i.e., involuntary exploitation). That's why left-wing ideology is so popular until progressive corruption becomes overwhelming, then individual dignity reasserts itself and people act to remove left-wing ideologues from power. I guess humanity is destined to relive this cycle perpetually.

gerry said...

If we ignore GM long enough, the undesirable behavior may extinguish.

Just sayin'.

I don't bother reading a post when it begins "Garage ".

B said...

garage mahal said...B, you're too fucking stupid to debunk anything.

Shall we revisit the Vitter claims you made when you were trying to establish your Weiner equivalency asshole? Repeatedly reissuing them after being shown they had no substance - right out of Alinsky?

I don't even read your comments any longer. I usually pass right over them because they offer nothing. My time would be better spent watching paint dry than wasting time with your lies and utter fucking stupidity. I only step in your ignorant bullshit when someone I respect as a thoughtful commenter mentions it.

You're a lightweight jackass parroting the worst sites and writers for purveying duplicitous distortions on the net. You get exposed repeatedly when you do because you're too superficial to understand you're being used - the ovine vapidity that is the trademark of a mob.

Must suck to wake up in the morning an realize that all you'll ever be capable of being is you.

garage mahal said...


I don't even read your comments any longer.


Please don't. I really, really do not care what you think.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alex said...

Please don't. I really, really do not care what you think.

So Garage - who's opinion do you care about?

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Strelnikov said...

Just wrapping up a week at our Northern HQ (Door Co.), and the shoulder hours of TV (two hours prior to prime) have been awash in union funded attacks on Republicans. Interestingly, nothing in prime time, so spending is being held down so far. No mention of CB specifically. Attacks have been purely "fat cat" type of things which the Dems would use in any election, and the adds are identical for both Repubs running in the area. I would describe the productions quality and message of the adds as "schlock".

Maguro said...

I ♥ the Koch brothers. Is there anything these guys can't do?

Curious George said...

"Alex said...
Please don't. I really, really do not care what you think.

So Garage - who's opinion do you care about?"

He has already answered this:

garage mahal said...
Have fun in the minority, that's all that matters to me.

Nothing else matters to him. Not the truth. Not rules. Morals. Results. Others. Nothing.

All you need to know about garage mahal. But if you are like me, you already know this.

There is a reason that all he can bring to this thread is a strawman.

bflat879 said...

As a Floridian, the most important thing about the Wisconsin recall election is state representatives putting themselves on the line, to do what they feel is right and then not being allowed to stay in office to see the results of that legislation. Why should any representative put their neck on the line for treatment like this?

I believe the Democrats should be ashamed of themselves, for their conduct in this whole event. I hope, sincerely, the citizens of Wisconsin refuse to go ahead with this folly and return all of these politicians to office. If they want to remove anyone, it should be those who fled the state, and their responsibilities, and refused to do their job. If the Democrats believe that representing the unions is more important than representing their constituents, they don't deserve to be in office, but that should also wait until the next election.

Kirk Parker said...

O. Mike,

"If a monkey can do it, why can't Republicans?"

That is a rhetorical question, right?

TK said...

"So the shocking outrages the touched of the protests . . ."

Did you mean:

"So the shocking outrages that touched off the protests . . ."

Tom Spaulding said...

Garage, I'm having too much fun with you in the minority already. How much fun can a guy have?

8212db2e-a9a8-11e0-82ea-000bcdcb5194 said...

Not that it matters to the content, but it's Alberta Darling

JAFAC said...

Anytime a Republican is in office it's a crime.

If G.W. Bush's term started in 2008, does anyone think he would still be in office with unemployment as it is along with the Pigford scam, armed voter intimidation by the NBP, and a dead Border Patrol agent due to Fast & Furious?

Being a Democrat means never having to say you're sorry.

Curious George said...

"Not that it matters to the content, but it's Alberta Darling"

I was wondering who got her name wrong...me! Three times. Roberta!?!?!

Weird, I know her name.

Jay said...

Maybe that is why Democrats in the nine recall districts aren't talking about collective bargaining

And here I thought it was all about "workers rights"

Jay said...

garage mahal said...

I could give a fuck if you believe it or not. I don't really care either. Have fun in the minority, that's all that matters to me.


Of course. You leftists have no principles or agenda other than be in power.

JorgXMcKie said...

Two kinds of people in the world: Those who want to tell you what to do and use use force [i.e. govt] to make it happen, and those who don't.

While it's obvious that Garbage is running with the first group, it's not obvious that he's actually smart enough to be one of the 'rulers' so he'll settle for being a toady or bootlicker or dogsbody, whichever position opens up first.

He's rather obviously not smart enough to be a productive member of the second group. He'd starve. Thus he takes the path of least resistance.

sally said...

I long ago stopped reading Caffeinated Politics (dekerivers aka Greg Humphrey) for the 'comedy' of his rants and ramblings. It's amazing how much anger a guy can have when he and his partner James are both living on disability and getting his paycheck from you and me.