July 10, 2011

"Boehner's Obama Gamble: A tax increase now for the promise of tax reform later won't fly."

Yesterday's Wall Street Journal editorial (before Boehner backed out):
Republicans would be putting their fingerprints on a tax increase in return for spending cuts as a first order of business, which would raise the dividend and top income tax rates to 39.6% (from 35%), or 41% if you include the phase-out of deductions. (Plus the 3.8% payroll tax hike baked into ObamaCare.) Only then would Mr. Obama and the Democrats negotiate the details of tax reform and lower overall rates. 
But why at that point would Democrats want tax reform? They'd have achieved their main political goals of a huge debt-reduction deal, getting GOP cover for a tax increase, and putting Republicans cross-wise with the tea party. Raising tax rates first also makes the math of tax reform that much harder to negotiate on both revenue and income-distribution grounds. Under the Beltway's scoring rules, cutting rates would look like an even bigger gain for higher-income folks and an even bigger revenue loss for the Treasury.
As The Politico puts it: "Under pressure from right, John Boehner steps back on debt deal."

102 comments:

kent said...

"A tax increase now for the promise of tax reform later won't fly."

Nor should it.

America's Politico said...

I like the Speaker. He is a good man. But, this decision will force the voters to vote for OB2. Does the GOP need an Advisory Board to focus on 2012? Where are the deliverables? Where is the vision? Where are the plans for future Americans? Where is the diversity in the leadership? There are so many questions, which seem to relate only to the GOP. The OB1 is the most perfect Administration since the days of Washington, Lincoln, FDR, and JFK.

It would be possible, we would make OB3 in 2016. Oh well....you get the challenge the GOP has.

The GOP knows nothing that is laid out for them next year: The NYT, NPR, PBS, BlogMasters like Sully, HuffyPosty, TalkingTrashMemo, etc. The GOP is being blind-sided like a QB on Super Bowl. The GOP deserves to lose, and lose big.

Freeman Hunt said...

I read that editorial yesterday, and I was surprised that that deal had ever been a possibility.

Dudley Do-right said...

Boehner agreed to this and is now backing out under "pressure"? He still doesn't get it; another RINO. A third grader could see through this ploy.

Thank God for the Tea Party (and whoever else is generating pressure).

OneLifeLiveIt said...

So Bush raised the ceiling six times! This is Obama's 1st - so one eyed!

Shouting Thomas said...

Peggy Noonan says it: We Need a Ronald Reagan.

We've been through this movie before. It's called: Welcome Back, Carter!

We know the solutions, too.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Anybody else notice the little editorial error over on the CNBC homepage? (link; screen capture)

I think they're trying to stir up dissension in the ranks.

Dudley Do-right said...

A-Politico: Sorry, that make no sense. What do you do, just string together dem talking points? Is that supposed to carry the day in 2012?

Only way that could work is if the elections are rigged. Hmmm....

vw=abledoto It inspired this post; as in "if the Dems are ABLE they will DO it TO us"

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Curious George said...

"Freeman Hunt said...
I read that editorial yesterday, and I was surprised that that deal had ever been a possibility."

All deals are a "possibility" I suppose. This one had no chance, and depite what inference people are making about Boehner, this was Obama's deal.

Jess said...

@America's Politico: Thanks for weighing in on the subject. Now we know how things will really shake out next year.

Shouting Thomas said...

Took a trip to Home Depot in Kingston yesterday.

This is the height of home improvement season. The store was just about deserted. The sales personnel were grouped together talking. Nobody to serve.

This store is usually jammed on summer weekends.

Nobody is spending money.

DADvocate said...

This should be added to the list of greatest lies:
1 - I love you.
2 - The check's in the mail.
3 - I won't come in your mouth.
4 - I'll reform taxes later.

traditionalguy said...

Home depot needs to add high end, rare wine sales to get Congressmen back into the stores.

And then they will tip their hand on incandescent light bulb re-legalization.

If Ryan buys cases of light bulbs along with cases of rare wine, then we know what their vote on legal light bulbs will be.

Congress persons are so simple.

Jay said...

I'm starting to see the new leftist talking point is that "The Republicans would block any jobs bill" therefore unemployment is high.

DADvocate said...

But, this decision will force the voters to vote for OB2. Does the GOP need an Advisory Board to focus on 2012? Where are the deliverables? Where is the vision? Where are the plans for future Americans? Where is the diversity in the leadership? There are so many questions, which seem to relate only to the GOP. The OB1 is the most perfect Administration since the days of Washington, Lincoln, FDR, and JFK.

ROFLMAO!!!

Surely, you jest. Most perfect fuck up is more like it.

Hagar said...

I will respect you in the morning.

DADvocate said...

Took a trip to Home Depot in Kingston yesterday.

I went to Lowe's yesterday (no Home Depot in our little burg). Not packed, but pretty busy. Walmart was packed, which is usual in bad econimic times.

Jay said...

By the way, this is all posturing.

Remember the "cuts" Boehner agreed to earlier this year?

That is what this deal will look like.

A bunch of 1/2% reductions in spending increases, closing a few national parks, closing some vague tax loopholes, promises of future cuts and accounting gimmicks.

And they'll slap $2 trillion! on the label and we'll still be speeding toward fiscal catastrophe.

Jay said...

Boehner's Obama Gamble

How is it a gamble to discuss economics with Obama who is the most economically ignorant president since LBJ?

Paco Wové said...

"What do you do, just string together dem talking points?"

DDR: psst: 'America's Politico' is a joke, a comic persona, blog commenter performance art. Don't take anything he/she/it says seriously, just lie back and enjoy (or not).

Browndog said...

Democrats refuse to cut spending.

Always have, always will.

Unless, it happens to be something they are Constitutionally bound to spend money on-like Defense...

Who needs that....such a waste.

AllenS said...

If anyone remembers 'America's Politico' handicapping the last election, I'd say then that obama and the Democrats are in big trouble. The person is an idjit.

vet66 said...

Obama is playing Chicago style rope-a-dope with Boehner. Time to call Obama's bluff and go to the media explaining exactly what Obama and his minions are up to. The progressive plan to spend what the country can't afford on bigger government is a no-go.

Treat Obama like the spending addict he is; Just say no! No More! No mas! The latest act of progressive addiction, besides Obama, is the U.N., tone deaf as usual, wanting some 60 trillion dollars to take the planet green for the next few decades.

On the bright side, with no budget, the House can at least manage spending at current levels, let the dems explain the high unemployment rate they created with their Keynesian failed economic policies, watch the much vilified private sector sit on trillions of dollars as they watch Obama squirm.

Note to Speaker Boehner; this is high stakes poker. Try real hard to not cry at the table, poker face on, and call his bluff without falling all over yourself apologizing. Your trump card is that Obama is stuck on stupid and won't change unless you force his hand.

traditionalguy said...

As for Home Depot sales, one must understand that homeowners who are losing the house, that they cannot sell, to foreclosure real soon tend to skip maintenance.

We are where the materialist/Marxist Obama thinks we cannot say no to his tyranny anymore. The working poor in ChiTown are his vision of the country.

Obama is in for a rude re-awakening. See, Sarah Palin's latest Facebook post.

nevadabob said...

Are we still funding the arts? During a recession? I realize arts funding is a good thing ... but during a recession? Is it absolutely necessary ... or can we pause that spending temporarily?

During a recession do we really need NPR? Or should we shut down NPR until revenues return to normal levels when the recession is over?

I read this morning that Americans sent Greece $780 million to prevent them from defaulting on their debts.

Really?

We have enough American tax revenue that we can fund Greek Socialists?

The problem we have in Washington DC is that spending happens automatically regardless of the country's financial situation. That's retarded. Money appropriated in good times for marginal government purposes can seemingly NEVER STOP BEING SPENT.

No matter if we're fighting 4 wars or whether we're going through a mini Great Depression ... all the money continues to be spent even the money on marginal programs that have little evident benefits.

This un-required spending should be paused, only temporarily. Until unemployment returns to low levels and there are more taxpayers.

In a world with 500 channels, why exactly do Republicans fund NPR when NPR spends considerable amounts of money defeating Republican political candidates and creating positive buzz for Democrats?

That's retarded for a political party to support programs that largely ONLY BENEFIT DEMOCRATS.

The Republicans seem to be pissing away their final chance at governance. When they cave on this debt deal (and it looks increasingly like they're caving in for at least $200 billion in tax revenue increases) then it will be time for the Tea Party to officially become America's third political party and to destroy the Republican Party that keeps funding Democrats with tax money.

The status quo cannot continue.

TosaGuy said...

I understand that taxes will have to go up sometime. However, not a single penny of tax hike before trillions in real cuts. Otherwise, it's just more crack for the addict.....government in general, not Obama in particular.

Shouting Thomas said...

Oh well… There ain’t gonna be any money or jobs for a while. Certainly, not while Obama is building his progressive Utopia.

Let it go! Look on the Bright Side of Life!

So, fuck it! No need to eat the Diversity shit at the office. It’s a beautiful day in Woodstock.

Since I’m not in the office, I don’t have to kiss feminist or gay ass. I can take a bike ride. 20 mile round trip to Phoenicia.

Lunch with the daughter. Putter around in the garden. Play and write some music. Get ready to paint the kitchen. Prep the walls.

Sure beats writing more fucking code! No money, but my time is my own.

Looks like it might continue this way for the long haul. As they say, if you're gonna be raped, you might as well relax and enjoy it.

AprilApple said...

Trust the democrats to follow through with spending cuts? LOL.

cubanbob said...

Boehner should raise taxes, raise them immediately on democrats. Eliminate the tax deductibility for local income taxes, for taxes paid to sanctuary localities,for localities with rent control, for commuter taxes, for contributions to non religious NGOs. Tax the investment income and gains of non profits. Eliminate the Davis-Bacon Act and require state and local governments to eliminate their versions of if they want matching federal funding. Eliminate foundation's ability to apply their overhead to their required annual distribution. This list of these things that would hit mainly democrat areas is huge. The democrats want higher taxes, Mr.Boehner give them what they want.

G Joubert said...

Seems to me that the opportunity is right there for one of these R presidential candidates (Bachmann or Romney come to mind) to seize. Go out on the record now in this context in favor of massive spending reductions and cutting taxes too. Need to show a little leadership here.

And while they're at it, also start talking about Operation Fast and Furious and its horrible sequelae.

Skyler said...

I just don't understand the mentality of people that vote for politicians that unendingly want to raise taxes, no matter how high they are.

I think it's some deep philosophical result of the christian concept of self-sacrifice. Priests don't marry, baptists don't drink, Jews don't eat pork. The spiritual world is mollified by giving of yourself.

We could use a lot less of that attitude or we'll never be rid of politicians who take advantage of it.

viator said...

Another party enters the debate…

The Sugar Daddy Has Run Out of Sugar; Now We Need New Leaders

“Barack Obama’s big government policies continue to fail. He should put a link to the national debt clock on his BlackBerry. The gears on that clock have nearly exploded during his administration. Yesterday’s terrible job numbers should not be a surprise because it all goes back to our debt. Our dangerously unsustainable debt is wiping out our jobs, crippling our economic growth, and jeopardizing our position in the global economy as the leader of the free world.”

“The same “experts” who got us into this mess are now telling us that the only way out of our debt crisis is to “increase revenue,” but not by creating more jobs and therefore a larger tax base; no, they want to “increase revenue” by raising taxes on job creators who are taxed enough already! As Margaret Thatcher said, “The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” That’s where we are now. Hard working taxpayers have been big government’s Sugar Daddy for far too long, and now we’re out of sugar. We don’t want big government, we can’t afford it, and we are unwilling to pay for it.

This debt ceiling debate is the perfect time to do what must be done. We must cut. Yes, I’m for a balanced budget amendment and for enforceable spending caps. But first and foremost we must cut spending, not “strike a deal” that allows politicians to raise more debt! See, Washington is addicted to OPM – Other People’s Money. And like any junkie, they will lie, steal, and cheat to fund their addiction. We must cut them off and cut government down to size.

To paraphrase Hemingway, people go broke slowly and then all at once. We’ve been slowly going broke for years, but now it’s happening all at once as the world’s capital markets are demanding action from us, yet Obama assumes we’ll just go borrow another cup of sugar from some increasingly impatient neighbor. We cannot knock on anyone’s door anymore. And we don’t have any time to wait for Washington to start behaving responsibly. We’ll be Greece before these D.C. politicians’ false promises are over. We must force government to live within its means, just as every business and household does.”

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AJ Lynch said...

Obama wants a hall pass that will let him skate to the 2012 election. Don't give it to him.

Sixty Grit said...

skyler - you included Jews in your list of "christian" examples of self-sacrafice. Are you kidding? I get that you hate all religions, except islam, of course, but really?

Carol_Herman said...

There are problems with John Boehner from the beginning. Sarah Palin had more to do with the huge House win than Boehner or Karl Rove DID! Yet, as soon as the election is over, last November, the insiders IN the republican party acted as if the "irse in stature" belonged to the team's nicompoops.

In DC nothing had changed, escept who got what office space.

The Tea Party was told to "go home." All across America the call went out that at republican party headquarters "the adults were in charge."

So, let's call this BULLSHIT!

John Boehner is an artificially tanned drunk! He says he knows what goes on in DC ... Which is that it's a whore house with perks.

At no time has John Boehner been more than an insider grabbing at the brass ring. Gerald Ford was also one of these pieces of crap.

Except that Gerald Ford was the "newcomer" who pushed out some really tainted GOP leadership. This was accepted because Gerald Ford "was a nice guy." He couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Inside the hot house of politics "FAMILIES" rise. Just like in the Mafia.

John Boehner is not your friend!

But there is something that worries him.

He can touch a toxic ball ... where he shows he's clueless in what bothers most Americans. And, he's used to the whore house set up of PORK BARRELS and DEALS.

John Boehner is WRONG for America.

He is WRONG for the republican party. And, he has no idea where to even find people who could advise him. Which is almost funny.

If his office just had someone who read the Internet. Where there's been lots of discussions. From when Dubya was told "NO BAILOUT!" To this being ignored.

To today. Where, again, those stalwart politicians couldn't even find their ass cracks with both hands, a road map. And, a flashlight.

We are in a ZOMBIE ECONOMY! The Stimulus has been LOST ... because it was sent out of America. Some of it to China. Some of it to the European banks. And, some of it to Goldman, Sachs. Who just picked up another $15-billion in small change.

Even on Wall Street, though; and, at banks, they are firing people. People who thought they were safe.

While for good measure, in England, not to get caught in criminal activities, Rupert Murdoch shuttered the 168 year old paper, instead.

Someday, we will get to better leadership! Less terror of Murdoch by pussy politicians.

And, the Internet. Your eyes will pop. But you will keep reading.

John Boehner reminds me of the American Car industry. When our cars starred on the roadways. Then? To "compete" ... all that got added was chrome.

The first thing that can fall off your car is a needless piece of chrome detail.

Obama, by now, should have been on the ropes. Instead? Boehner is looking to see that he gets front page space. And, his head in pictures, is shown with Obama's. Where, in the main, Boehner just looks more orange.

Maybe, Boehner is starting to sweat like Murdoch? But Murdoch knows how to lead. To surprise attack. And, to "reverse ferret."

Shouting Thomas said...

Mama Grizzly has spoken.

You might ask yourself: Why do our betters keep telling us that Palin cannot be elected?

Answer: They don't want her to be elected. It's the end of the gravy train for them. No more Sugar Daddy.

Pogo said...

Not a fair reading, Skyler.  The demand for endless self-sacrifice was prominent amongst the atheists in the USSR and Maoist China, and the results were worse.

The Founding Fathers were religious themselves, and rightly saw the problem as one inherent in any governmental power.

The solution then is not philosophical but : Keep Government Small.

They recognized well the inability of the governmental weed to do anything but grow and seek power.  The socialists are taking advantage of anything they can to demand that growth, but appealing to Christianity is a mere feint to one American demographic, an especially gullible one at that.

AJ Lynch said...

Cubanbob- those were brilliant suggestions. I'd love to see the Repubs get on TV and pitch those.

Phil 3:14 said...

I don't think Rep. Boehner likes public negotiation.

virgil xenophon said...

"Usefull Idiots"=the entire GOP establishment/RINO types.

There is A REASON the GOP is called "the stupid party." BOHICA!

nevadabob said...

"I read that editorial yesterday, and I was surprised that that deal had ever been a possibility."

Oh, it's possible. If the establishment Republicrats think for one moment they can get away with increasing fees, taxes and eliminating deductions they'll do it. They'll march right across the aisle and start masagging Harry Reid's cock for him if we don't keep the pressure on these bastards.

So keep the pressure on.

Republicans need to understand that voters view fees as taxes, taxes are taxes, eliminating deductions is a tax hike and that if they raise taxes then we're going to EVISCERATE the Republican Party.

Tax increases are ONLY HELPING DEMOCRATS and Republicans need to stop funding the opposition party with MY FUCKING MONEY.

If Republicans can't manage to do that, then we don't need Republicans and we can get on with the dirty business of putting the tax raisers down for good.

NYTNewYorker said...

Right now, Rep. John Boehner is the only thing standing between the strangled U.S. taxpayer and the additional $2Trillion in new tax increases that Obama is demanding.

Carol Herman, think.

AJ Lynch said...

"Under pressure from the right, Boehner backed off debt deal" should say:

"Under pressure from Americans who know when politicians add $2 Trillion to $14 Trillion, they get stuck with a bill for $20 Trillion."

ic said...

Is Boehner really that stupid to even consider that? Hasn't he learned the smoke-and-mirror deal he did last round only proved what a dupe he was? He would either lose his Spearkership or the Republicans who voted with him would lose their seats. Whether a TeaPartier could win in a "safe" House seat is irrelevant, a spoiler TeaPartier would certainly cost a "safe" Republican his seat.

edutcher said...

Nice to hear Boehner is listening.

Also, what vet66 and (yes) Carol, at least in her first paragraph, said.

Carol_Herman said...

NYTNewYorker. At 9:49 AM.

Boehner is the only thing standing between the taxpayer and being destroyed ... in the same way Abraham Lincoln discovered General McLellan stood between union victory and defeat.

We will survive.

And, I will repeat this: John Boehner is wearing Gerry Ford's shoes. Gerry Ford was a "nice guy" who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Back in the 1960's, there was a House election. I think 1968's. That gave the House to some republican schmuck who was speaker. One young Turk, Donald Rumsfeld. Was so disgusted with the House leadership. He went to Gerry Ford ... and it took him quite awhile to show the "empty head" that a leadership change was required. And, Gerry Ford finally agreed to challenge "for the Speaker's Chair."

Some changes are nothing but decoration ... where you cover up termite infested walls with expensive flocked wallpaper.

People come in ... and they "ooh and aah" the decorator's touches. While the house is still falling down.

Can't fool me!

Boehner STINKS!

You say he is the best of the worst choices. This is true. But it is only true because the House has inside of it ... rules of inheritance.

If Boehner could sing like Dean Martin, he'd have at least one quality that made him worth listening to.

DC is our national sinkhole.

And, yes. Congress is run by bandits. Whose only joys in life come from digging deep into pork barrels.

It's also the only place where a KKK'er. A Kleagle no less, memorized all the rules. And, kept the place infantile.

As to what's behind the house of cards, are terrified politicians. Who are frightened Americans may just go ahead and elect Independents?

Once, there were WHIGS. Up ahead? Which party label shrinks? And, where does Sarah Palin take ONE NATION?

The old rules in how you got elected ... have had the bedsheets changed. But it seems we're living in a time ... where this isn't enough.

Even obama's felt the scorching earth under his feet? The drunk Boehner will not be given a pass.

And, AFTER a revolution ... changes occur.

Have we had revolutions?

Mark Twain said the TELEPHONE brought the news business to New Orleans. And, literature was birthed in the USA.

Of course, I could point to the computer. Where, in my youth, men did not answer telephones. And, they didn't type. Those jobs, to protect them from phone calls, is gone forever.

And, the Internet speaks.

Google (which is free to us), data mines the Internet. And, turns knowledge into gold.

MikeinAppalachia said...

It would be "interesting" to watch the Market collapse if dividends were raised to 39.6% or higher. Of course, only rich people receive dividends, so that's OK.

Carol_Herman said...

Traditionalguy @ 7:58AM ...

You made my day!

TosaGuy said...

If the Dems want to raise taxes, then let them do it, they don't need the GOP to do their dirty work for them.

TosaGuy said...

"It would be "interesting" to watch the Market collapse if dividends were raised to 39.6% or higher. Of course, only rich people receive dividends, so that's OK."

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

A big part of the stock rally in recent years is that dividend paying stocks were way oversold in 2008 and early 2009, creating bargains for regular investors interested in a rate of return 3-4 times better than the average CD, which currently hovers below 1 percent. Places for regular people to makes some money separate from a job or gov't assistance are being picked off one by one. Housing equity is gone, CDs/money markets pay crap, now dividends will be taxed to the point of why bother. Crush the dividend stocks and the market tanks and takes equity with it. This is an effort to crush the ownership class within the middle class, making them totally dependent on whatever "our betters" deign to give us in exchange for our vote.

Rick said...

Tosaguy?
I don't understand your comment. The House Republicans have absolute power to prevent taxes from going up. They currently can just say No. It is a veto power that cannot be over-ridden. They have more power in this situation than Obama. The only question is whether the House Republican leadership will exercise that power as desired by the millions who gave that power to them in November 2010.

Carol_Herman said...

Boehner - Schmoner. Over at Drudge, Boehner is seated next to pelosi. While just to the right. With her own picture on top. Drudge is running the headline:

"SUGAR DADDY HAS RUN OUT OF MONEY"

Then comes the whole barrage from Facebook. So, I got to read what Sarah Palin has to say!

Why won't Boehner just ask Palin to come to DC? Isn't there a whallapalooza of a photo op right there?

You and I know Boehner won't do this.

Meanwhile, with a boost from Drudge, Sarah Palin lays out the map. The money's all gone, now. Working people can't "fund" the new "slap on tax of $2-trillion."

And, Boehner? He's just a putz.

The ideas are out there!

One day, ahead, there will be a large pool of GOP House members who are gonna beg, borrow and steal ... for some of Sarah's attention. They'll swear they are "Tea Party." They'll swear that they are swimming upstream in the sewer called DC.

And, Boehner? He's gonna worry that even if the republicans keep their majority in the House ... He may have to move out of the Speaker's office just the same! Why? Because those who want to be elected will be flopping all over themselves to get votes.

What's Boehner got? Re-election money? Are you kidding me?

Do you want to know what I see?

I see that to get elected politicians are gonna have to move away from their "sweet set."

While I see Sarah Palin coming out at "RAMMING SPEED" with her bus; ONE NATION. (And, I actually also see that she pulls Donald Trump IN. No Paul Krugman's for her!)

Oh, yeah.

"RAMMING SPEED" is a scene from Animal House. Too funny.

Sarah Palin has learned from Tina Fey ... that a good joke is memorable. And, there's no harm done.

I SEE THIS FROM MY OWN FRONT PORCH! We're not in russia. And, from my front porch, i fart in russia's general direction.

If Sarah Palin's "DADDY AIN'T GOT NO MORE SUGAR, HONEY" ... goes viral ... It shows ya what free people do ... when they have access to a great blog.

And, openions come along to gel.

Curious George said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Canuck said...

Hope I'm wrong, but it's going to be very difficult to get any deal passed.

Attn Americans:

assume the crash position.

Curious George said...

"TosaGuy said...
If the Dems want to raise taxes, then let them do it, they don't need the GOP to do their dirty work for them."

Huh? Of course they do. The GOP has a strong majority in the House. No tax bill can pass without them.

Rick said...
Tosaguy?
I don't understand your comment. The House Republicans have absolute power to prevent taxes from going up. They currently can just say No. It is a veto power that cannot be over-ridden Nothing to do with veto...they have control over what bills ever get to Obama.

Sure they do but nothing to with veto. No bill can even get to Obama without the House GOP. That said, the GOP does not have the majority to override Obama in the House, and they are still a minority in the Senate. Why it's important to take the Senate and WH in 2012.

Rick said...

Curious: My point is that with respect to raising the debt ceiling, it cannot be done without the house agreement. If the house Republicans refuse to agree, it simply cannot be done, and the House's "veto" regarding the debt-ceiling cannot be over-ridden.

Old Dad said...

Boehner was right to back out. I still think he'll cave, though.

Here's an immutable fact. Government will spend every penny they get their hands on. They will continue to wrack up deficits, regardless. They cannot help themselves.

They must be cut off immediately. The current revenue stream is sufficient to avoid default, but not to meet current obligations. Too bad, Congress critters. Figure it out. You've been (I hope) cut off.

You've been schtupping us for years, and we've let you. Now it's time to put on big boy pants and big girl panties and bring the schtupping onto the front pages. Who gets it? The NEA, the Dept. of Education (OMG, the children), grandma? Someone has got to get schtupped--you pick.

Alex said...

Nice to see Boehner showing some stiffness in that spine. Don't go wobbly now Boner.

Alex said...

Sorry Carol, but Sarah Palin is a joke at this point. Keep peddling her at your own risk to credibility.

damianlewis719 said...

As The Politico puts it: "Under pressure from right, John Boehner steps back on debt deal."
Yeah, Politico spin or Democratic talking point, sometimes hard to differentiate.

TosaGuy said...

""TosaGuy said...
If the Dems want to raise taxes, then let them do it, they don't need the GOP to do their dirty work for them."

Rick Said
Huh? Of course they do. The GOP has a strong majority in the House. No tax bill can pass without them."

I am speaking more broadly than the immediate kerfuffle. The Dems are the party of tax hikes but they know that is a losing proposition at the ballot box. They want GOP cover so they can raise taxes. If the GOP give the Dems a tax hike, it only angers the GOP voters, not the Dem voters. The Dems get two birds with one stone. The GOP gains nothing by agreeing to taxes.

Rick said...

TosaGuy: I think we agree: the House Republicans should exercise their veto and not approve any tax increases.

Alex said...

OTOH - the GOP can't just be the "party of no". They have to keep informing the voters of what they're opposing and to turn it around that it's the Dems being the "party of tax hikes".

Rick said...

Alex: I agree. The Republicans need to pound away at that message.

reader_iam said...

Sorry Carol, but Sarah Palin is a joke at this point. Keep peddling her at your own risk to credibility.

Well, speaking for myself, I'm not so sure about that. She's doing a much better job at maintaining focus on fiscal/limited government issues from a more traditionalist, rugged-individualist standpoint than, for example, Bachmann and other options. From my current perspective, she's staying on message with the one issue that maybe-might-possibly can unite right-leaners, true moderates and Independents who aren't, in reality, Democrats whose only true objection to left-leaning policies in the matter of degree. Not only is she staying on message with that one issue, she's mostly avoiding diluting it with potential showstoppers.

So, who knows? It's still pretty far out from 11/2012, the looming of, for example, the Iowa Straw Poll notwithstanding.

cubanbob said...

The republicans should offer a budget with all of the cuts and include the tax increases I proposed in an earlier comment and advise the democrats take it or leave it.

So if the government shuts down for other than essential services that would be a good thing. Once the public sees the sky hasn't fallen and the earth hasn't opened up the democrats are pretty much finished as far the budget argument is concerned.

The republicans ought to go for broke and eliminate entire agencies and departments, scale back substantially the federal workforce, reduce the remaining workers benefits and salaries, repeal Davis-Bacon and include a national right to work act in their budget. They have nothing to lose and if a large portion of it passes it will good for the country.

Alex said...

Well at least Palin hasn't signed the anti-gay pledge. That was a big unforced error on Bachmann.

reader_iam said...

Given how things are currently playing out here in Iowa, I'm also increasingly intrigued with how Palin is playing her hand w/r/t to this state, especially in comparison to how others are playing their hands w/r/t to it.

reader_iam said...

Alex:

I'd suggest you read that entire pledge document, if you haven't (the original as well as the current version is available on letterhead in pdf form). The document is only four pages, including its preamble, the pledge itself, and a bunch of footnotes. Very interesting, especially if you've been following Iowa politics for a while, even if you're not an actual registered voter in Iowa, as I am.

phx said...

The sound byte right now is Repubs Won't Compromise. America Crashing.

Alex said...

The Bachmann anti-gay pledge document

Social protections, especially for women and children, have been evaporating as we have collectively “debased the currency” of marriage. This debasement continues as a function of adultery; “quickie divorce;” physical and verbal spousal abuse; non-committal co-habitation; pervasive infidelity and “unwed cheating” among celebrities, sports figures and politicians; anti-scientific bias which holds, in complete absence of empirical proof, that non-heterosexual inclinations are genetically determined, irresistible and akin to innate traits like race, gender and eye color; as well as anti-scientific bias which holds, against all empirical evidence, that homosexual behavior in particular, and sexual promiscuity in general, optimizes individual or public health. 8

Michael said...

"Gerry Ford was a "nice guy" who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time."

Ford was a college football player and a lifetime skier. He slipped once and it was the funniest thing the left had ever seen and it became the first bullshit "meme" of modern times.

Michael said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rick said...

phx: To borrow a response: How does one compromise with poison?

nevadabob said...

"The sound byte right now is Repubs Won't Compromise."

That's not what I'm hearing. What I am hearing is that Republicans are compromising.

Here is the offer: Budget cuts first. Then, later, if more is necessary, and only then, will we take more money from the American people at gunpoint. But only after the recession is solved and you guys have done something about unemployment.

That is our compromise.

The alternative is much, much worse for you guys. You should take our compromise deal because if you don't we have a worse alternative deal for you.

Alex said...

The MSM frames the narrative based on headlines. Here's a small sample of the latest:

CNN - Boehner says 'no' to ambitious debt-reduction deal

ABC News - Debt Negotiations: Can A Deal Be Struck?

Yahoo News - Obama faces new obstacles in high-stakes debt talks

Alex said...

The consistent MSM meme is "GOP are obstructionists".

Roger J. said...

The Obama administration is gambling that they can paint the republicans as those responsible for not raising the debt ceiling. There is NOTHING to indicate the Obama administration is bargaining in good faith.
They are the sorriest bunch of bastards that ever came down the pike, and in addition to being clueless, Obama is a fucking liar.

Pretty simple really.

Chip Ahoy said...

He couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.

That's a stupid thing to repeat. You must have missed his whole athletic bio and instead drank up the media tropes full strength.

Roger J. said...

And it would be far better were these negotiations done in the open--IIRC the jug eared asshole who is our president said he would have a transparent administration--fucking liar

nevadabob said...

Biased: Boehner, GOP nix deal to avert global financial crisis

Or: Boehner, GOP protect average Americans from costly Democrat tax hikes

Whichever of these headline appears in your local newspaper reveals the bias of your newspaper.

Roger J. said...

What Chip Ahoy said: Gerald Ford was an all american football player and a superb athlete-

You are an idiot Carol Herman whose world is informed by SNL

Shame

Roger J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nevadabob said...

And here's another question Democrats need to explain to us.

Why is it that we have our first black president and all of a sudden he don't want to pay the money we borrowed back?

Isn't that the real message from Geithner and the Democrats ... that the first black president is now threatening to not pay back our debt?

Kind of makes black people look like they might be horrible credit risks or something.

phx said...

Kind of makes black people look like they might be horrible credit risks or something.

To people struggling with their inner racist I suppose.

A. Shmendrik said...

Problem? What problem?

I don't care if he stands on his head before proclaiming "no new taxes", as long as he holds the line.

Roger J. said...

what kind of economically ignorant idiot wants to raise taxes in the midst of a recession? Oh yes--President Obama

can someone explain the underlying economic theory why this is a good move? anyone? Bueller?

Canuck said...

"Why is it that we have our first black president and all of a sudden he don't want to pay the money we borrowed back?"


In the U.S. system Congress is in charge of funds.

President only has veto power.

nevadabob said...

"To people struggling with their inner racist I suppose."

I'm not struggling at all, but I think Tim Geithner is.

Here we have our first black president and Tax Cheat Timmy suddenly announces that the black guy isn't going to pay our bills.

I don't see how this can be viewed any other way.

It's racist. And they're doing it deliberately in my estimation. Geither is saying unless Obama gets more credit cards, the black guy isn't going to pay the bills.

And this inherent racist meme is coming from inside Obama's own administration.

It's a disservice to all black people that the first black president is now threatening to NOT PAY OUR BILLS.

What's next ... Obama threatening to walk out on Sasha and Malia if he don't get his Benjamins?

Fuck is up with that?

nevadabob said...

"President only has veto power."

His Treasury secretary has the power to decide which bills get paid first with the money that comes in, and the white Treasury secretary is telling us that the nation's First Black President has decided not to pay the national debt unless we give him some more credit cards.

That's racist.

If Obama was white, they wouldn't be threatening not to pay the bills. But because he's black, they're trying to make it look like maybe we ain't gonna good for it.

And this racism is coming from INSIDE the Obama administration.

It wouldn't work if Obama was white because nobody would believe it. But since he's black, they think this tactic will work. They're playing on racist stereotypes that black people don't pay their bills.

It's racist.

Geithner should resign.

Canuck said...

"His Treasury secretary has the power to decide which bills get paid first with the money that comes in,"

The Treasury doesn't have the Constitutional power to violate laws regarding spending passed by the Congress.

Congress should not turn this power over to the Treasury.

Canuck said...

"His Treasury secretary has the power to decide which bills get paid first with the money that comes in,"


If it comes to this there's going to be a Constitutional crisis.

The Treasury doesn't have the power to make these decisions.

nevadabob said...

Obama has wiped out blacks economic gains, according to MSNBC.

Joe said...

There was no debt deal. It's a complete lie manufactured by Obama. Boehner isn't stepping back from anything.

Bottom line is that Obama and the democrats are not bargaining in faith; they bargain and then suddenly change the deal and feign offense when the Republicans back away.

And, pray tell, whatever happened to: "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

Fen said...

Only then would Mr. Obama and the Democrats negotiate the details of tax reform and lower overall rates.

ie. trading your soul to the Devil in exchange for the "promise" of future negotiations.

JAL said...

@Dudley Boehner agreed to this and is now backing out under "pressure"?

Remember what the source of this spin is.

He backed off.

Good.

JAL said...

You know, back off like when you look at the fine print and say:

"Well crap. That's a no-go."

JAL said...

Given the way the Dems and the Prez lie with impunity why would anyone believe a word that came out of their mouths?

Eric said...

I just don't understand the mentality of people that vote for politicians that unendingly want to raise taxes, no matter how high they are.

You're over-thinking this, Skyler. A big portion of the people who keep voting for tax increases don't pay taxes and don't expect to pay taxes when the new rates take effect. They're raising taxes on other people.

Gene said...

Shouting Thomas: This store is usually jammed on summer weekends.
Nobody is spending money.


Quite the opposite here in Los Angeles. The stores are jammed. The streets jammed. I find it harder and harder just to get get off the freeway, make it to my street and park in the garage. Someone has money (it may just be welfare, food stamps and aid to women with dependent children) but wherever they got it they're sure jamming the stores to spend it.

AllenS said...

If Boehner was smart, he'd announce that he will not negotiate with obama unless the next proceedings are open to the public with cameras rolling.