May 11, 2011

"Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?"

BBC tries to explain those strange Americans.
Americans use their cars more, so the pain is greater. They have, on average, a longer daily commute than all Europeans, except Hungarians and Romanians. Public transport is generally poor so many Americans have no alternative but to drive.

But there is also a symbolic significance about gas that goes to the heart of what America is.

It signifies mobility, freedom and personal liberty, says Dan Neil, motoring correspondent on the Wall Street Journal. "Anger is probably more tied up with a wider sense of decline and also a loss of privilege. Cheap gas has been one of the prerogatives of the American Empire so people have become accustomed to it in a way which is somehow associated with our ability to wield our will around the world. We're mad because we've spent a lot of money in the Middle East and made a lot of enemies and defended a lot of tyrants and still gas prices go up."
Europeans pay twice as much, and they don't get angry. Maybe that goes to the heart of what Europe is.

211 comments:

1 – 200 of 211   Newer›   Newest»
chuck b. said...

Actually, that's a Wall Street Journal columnist explaining strange Americans.

Scott M said...

Most of the world should be glad we're not an "empire". If we truly were, in the historical sense of the world as used to describe nation-states, we would have steamrolled, subjugated, colonized, and exploited the rest of the world starting on November 18th, 1991.

TWM said...

"Europeans pay twice as much, and they don't get angry. Maybe that goes to the heart of what Europe is."

You mean a bunch of sheep?

Superdad said...

Or we could go with the obvious answer. We have a much, much larger country and high fuel prices greatly increase the costs of all products. In this bad/soft economy these price increases matter.

Scott M said...

Most of the world should be glad we're not an "empire". If we truly were, in the historical sense of the world as used to describe nation-states, we would have steamrolled, subjugated, colonized, and exploited the rest of the world starting on November 18th, 1991.

MadisonMan said...

I'm not angry when I pay for gas. People are angry? You'd think they'd be used to it by now.

Not looking forward, cost-wise, to the 1500-mile drive in my very near future, however.

Henry said...

There used to be Europeans who liked physical mobility and understood how it related to social mobility. Those are the ones that walked to ports and took boats across the ocean and populated great cities and moved far across North America to own their own land.

The Europeans still in Europe aren't angry about petrol prices, but that doesn't mean they're not angry. They're angry about Americans. Lucky bastards.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

I'm not angry when I pay for gas. People are angry? You'd think they'd be used to it by now.
I’d say there’s anger at “Big Awl fer gaugin’ the People” and at the Administration for not expanding production…..and it’s less anger and more BUDGETTING…take your 1,500 mile journey, what will you have to GIVE UP in order to pay for that $240 trip? When petrol was $1.80 the same trip would only have cost you $108…so where does the difference come from? Yeah from all the other aspects of your personal economy.

Bottom-Line: less “Anger” but more “Frustration” and “Concern”

Quayle said...

Maybe that goes to the heart of what Europe is.

High gas prices in Europe are non-progressive.

But that never bothers Europeans, with whom the left is always so enamored.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

I'm not angry when I pay for gas. People are angry? You'd think they'd be used to it by now.
I’d say there’s anger at “Big Awl fer gaugin’ the People” and at the Administration for not expanding production…..and it’s less anger and more BUDGETTING…take your 1,500 mile journey, what will you have to GIVE UP in order to pay for that $240 trip? When petrol was $1.80 the same trip would only have cost you $108…so where does the difference come from? Yeah from all the other aspects of your personal economy.

Bottom-Line: less “Anger” but more “Frustration” and “Concern”

Maguro said...

One thing this article did not do was document any anger about rising gas prices. The only evidence of our supposed outrage were some people at a gas station in suburban DC who said that high gas prices were hurting them and the fact that TV talking heads argue about gas prices a lot.

chickelit said...

At the heart of Energy Secretary Chu's newly released Strategic Plan 2011 is a Native American saying:

Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, but loaned to you by your children.

I think the budget guys have the same philosophy.

edutcher said...

what ScottM said.

Also, what Superdad said. There's a reason the speed limit is 75 or so out west. It takes a while to get anywhere.


The real reason is that most Americans can't understand why we can't tap our own ample fuel reserves, except that it is being denied us by a dictatorially-inclined small c communist.

chickenlittle said...

At the heart of Energy Secretary Chu's newly released Strategic Plan 2011 is a Native American saying:

Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents, but loaned to you by your children.

I think the budget guys have the same philosophy.

Maguro said...

One thing this article did not do was document any anger about rising gas prices. The only evidence of our supposed outrage were some people at a gas station in suburban DC who said that high gas prices were hurting them and the fact that TV talking heads argue about gas prices a lot.

Coketown said...

There is a VAT on anger so it is used sparingly in Europe.

But there's an exemption if that anger is directed at the government for cutting services. They'll riot over a tuition increase but they're perfect little bitches about rising commodities.

(I was skyping with a friend of mine in Durham, UK, who was shopping for groceries on Tesco's website for home delivery [this is a common service since gas is so expensive and lugging groceries home on their 'superior public transport' is still a pain in the ass.], and he paid nearly $6 for 12 eggs. Everything is more expensive there. Everybody there is used to it.)

Joe said...

My annoyance about gas prices is due to how Obama talked about energy independence but then has done everything to prevent that from happening. The foot dragging on permits, canceling permits already granted, closing off land with weird designations (and then proposing to send money to Brazil to help them drill for oil) is simply nuts.

Fen said...

."Europeans pay twice as much, and they don't get angry. Maybe that goes to the heart of what Europe is."

Euro's also take it up the ass every day. Little sheeple sucking off the Nanny State.

chuckR said...

We do not pay more for gas.

We pay less for tax.

However, even eliminating diversion of gas taxes to light rail, high speed rail, bike paths and bridges to nowhere, we may not pay enough to properly update, repair and maintain our roads.

But the additional needed tax revenues don't nearly explain the difference between Euro and US prices. For example, the US average, per wiki, is $0.48 fed and state tax versus $3.61 duty rate per US gallon in the UK. Oooh, bonus, add in a 17.5% VAT on the whole mess, fuel cost and duty rate - tax heaped on tax.

John Lynch said...

Cars are personal freedom. We like our freedom.

chuckR said...

We do not pay more for gas.

We pay less for tax.

However, even eliminating diversion of gas taxes to light rail, high speed rail, bike paths and bridges to nowhere, we may not pay enough to properly update, repair and maintain our roads.

But the additional needed tax revenues don't nearly explain the difference between Euro and US prices. For example, the US average, per wiki, is $0.48 fed and state tax versus $3.61 duty rate per US gallon in the UK. Oooh, bonus, add in a 17.5% VAT on the whole mess, fuel cost and duty rate - tax heaped on tax.

dmoelling said...

Sorry, Brits are outraged at their overtaxed petrol (my UK coworkers report this daily). Ditto for french, german, etc.

They just lost the ability to change it in the political system.

Dustin said...

I particularly like the conclusion that we fought these wars for something, cheap gas, that we didn't get.

Of course, if we wanted to fight a war to steal oil, we could actually do this a lot more easily than this hearts and minds reform we're attempting.

The sad truth is that Europe is to blame for much of the problem in the Middle East, not that I believe the sins of the father should pass to new generations.

They don't like that we're not really an Empire. That's so uneuropean. We fawn over actors or artists, and they fawn over the offspring of the offspring of the offspring of so-called nobles.

They should thank God that the American triumph over Europe came before nuclear weapons. I can only imagine the sorry state of the world where a King was a super power with modern American weapons.

Oil is the lifeblood of our economy, and expensive fuel means less food, less jobs, less everything except perhaps alternative fuels (Which I would love to see, of course).

Anyone who doesn't understand why expensive gas frustrates Americans is extremely insular, I assume because they rely on mass transit, something that is extremely unsustainable if applied to all of America.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I'm angry because I know that the answer to having enough supply of oil and refined gasoline could have been solved decades ago.

We hear the same tired explanations and excuses. It will take 10 years to have a supply on line. I've heard that one for the last freaking 45 years.

The government shuts off the access to development and makes it difficult if not impossible to explore and develop sources.

We have administrations for the last 40 years and especially NOW, who are actively antagonistic towards business and use 'big oil' as a whipping boy everytime the economy is in the tank.

All of this leaves us at the mercy of the oil cartels, our declining currency (artifically depressed thanks to the Fed's actions) and a supply demand curve that is being stressed due to rapid expansion of demand in the developing world.

We don't have a decent public transportation system or alternatives to driving long distances. Mostly a function of the fact that most of our individual States are larger than many countries in Europe. There is no comparison.

So yes, everytime we fill up the tanks in our work vehicles at 4.69 for regular or 5.10 for diesel several times a week......damned right....I'm angry because it means that much less money to spend on other frivilous things like....oh...I don't know...FOOD and clothing.

And Obambi's solution, buy a new car.

Yes. I. Am. Pissed.

Henry said...

What's up with Hungarians and Romanians and their long commutes? That's a far more interesting question than the anger hypothetical.

* * *

Anecdotally, people don't seem all that angry to me. A half-dozen years ago when we hit the $3.00/gallon point people seemed a little bit more annoyed.

Here are some interesting charts.

Freeman Hunt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Freeman Hunt said...

Perhaps Obama should leave America be and go to preside over the EU.

LakeLevel said...

I can tell you why I'm pissed. We have 1.2 trillion barrels of oil equivilent in shale in the western US. That's about 200 years worth that can be extracted for less than half of what we are paying for it now. Oh yeah, someOne banned using shale to get oil. That idiot is messing with our freedom of movement. The Europeans are passive because they are boiled frogs.

are boiled frogs.

ricpic said...

Mustn't hurt Mother Gaia by drilling into her you know.

ricpic said...

Hungarians and Rumanians have a strong pong. Other than that there is nothing exceptional about them.

Carol_Herman said...

There was a time it cost 25-cents a gallon. And, it came with free (green) dishes.

Texaco even advertised that the pump attendant would pump your gas, AND wash your car's windows.

I could care less what europeans think!

ricpic said...

Hungarians and Rumanians have a strong pong. Other than that there is nothing exceptional about them.

chuckR said...

DBQ

There's a Congressional Motors Pelosi GTxi SS/RT in your future. You can read all about it in Iowahawk's archives.

chickelit said...

What's at issue here is how much more Government could be funded through energy taxes. The Administration looks with envy at a Government like Holland's which extracts a much heavier burden from companies like Royal Dutch Shell and from its own private citizens. Meanwhile, the Dutch (and other European) citizens are so well trained that they even cheerlead our "comeuppance."

Bryan C said...

Ah, so we're one of those world-spanning, will-wielding Empires that flaunts its terrible resolve by, um, buying a vital national resource at market prices. Whenever a Brit talks about our alleged imperialism I can't help but think they're projecting. Or maybe just nostalgic.

Anyway, were we an actual Empire we would not be worrying about cheap gasoline because we'd own the Middle East and all of the Americas. And the British would among the many quaint administrative regions flying the proud Sword & Stripes of the US European Territories. And I bet that their gas would be cheaper, too.

chickenlittle said...

What's at issue here is how much more Government could be funded through energy taxes. The Administration looks with envy at a Government like Holland's which extracts a much heavier burden from companies like Royal Dutch Shell and from its own private citizens. Meanwhile, the Dutch (and other European) citizens are so well trained that they even cheerlead our "comeuppance."

Scott M said...

Anyway, were we an actual Empire we would not be worrying about cheap gasoline because we'd own the Middle East and all of the Americas.

MANIFEST DESTINY II
This Time It's Global

Americans love sequels. It's one of the few remaining things we're still the best at.

Phil 3:14 said...

Maybe this is a case of the boiling frog.

Its the sudden changes we don't like.

Here's another country's example. They were worried about riots when gas went from 38 cents to a $1.44

Roux said...

We don't have an empire but other than that he's right about the loss of freedom.

Revenant said...

It signifies mobility, freedom and personal liberty

Cars and cheap gas "signify" mobility, freedom, and personal liberty in the sense that having a lot of money signifies being rich.

PatCA said...

The haute monde of Europe may not get mad, but IMO the people do. Every Italian man we met on tour wanted to marry an American and come to the US and start a business. Yeah, everything is free, but your taxes are 60% of income, even for tour guides.

garage mahal said...

If only Obama could drill more. And then 10 yrs later we could knock off a whole .3 per gallon. Seriously!

Alex said...

Anyone who doesn't understand why expensive gas frustrates Americans is extremely insular, I assume because they rely on mass transit, something that is extremely unsustainable if applied to all of America.

If we only spend the $2 trillion it will take to mass-transit-ize America we will discover the joys of it!

garage mahal said...

If only Obama could drill more. And then 10 yrs later we could knock off a whole .3 per gallon. Seriously!

KLDAVIS said...

I've taken two long road trips in Europe (most recently last fall when we took delivery of our new Volvo at the factory) and I must say that drivers in Europe are fantastic. It's a privilege, not a right, and as a result the people who are driving are generally more courteous and obey the rules of the road...most importantly, they get the hell out of the left lane unless they're actively passing someone. They are also generally driving much smaller and better maintained vehicles. I can't remember being irritated by a single bad driver in more than 3,000 miles of driving in Europe. One commute here is enough to raise my blood pressure. If the higher price of gas takes most of the terrible drivers off the road, bring it on. While we're at it, can we making flying a luxury again, as well?

Alex said...

We have 1.2 trillion barrels of oil equivilent in shale in the western US.

That's not likely to be economically feasible to extract even 60% of that. Then there is the environmental cost as you need LOTS of water for the frakking process.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

If only Obama could drill more. And then 10 yrs later we could knock off a whole .3 per gallon. Seriously!

And there it is again. That same stupid Leftard 10 year meme.

If we had begun development 40 years ago when the same retards were saying it would take 10 years.....we would have control of our supply side.

Alex said...

While we're at it, can we making flying a luxury again, as well?

Can we do away with TSA then?

Scott M said...

Snark aside, Garage, if the cost of energy "necessarily skyrockets", it will severely, regressively hurt the lower-class.

Are you as okay with that as you are with people making racist arguments about gun laws keeping their jobs?

roesch-voltaire said...

I am angry that we subsidize the oil companies who make huge profits off the increase in gas prices while refusing to drill in the hundreds of sites they already have deeds to drill, because they can make more profits not drilling. I am angry because my 1957 Studebaker Champion got 30mpg and was ignored and still beats most autos made today.

Alex said...

We have 1.2 trillion barrels of oil equivilent in shale in the western US.

That's not likely to be economically feasible to extract even 60% of that. Then there is the environmental cost as you need LOTS of water for the frakking process.

AllenS said...

The price will go down significantly, after the Iraq and Libyan oil that we are going to steal hits the market.

Alex said...

Snark aside, Garage, if the cost of energy "necessarily skyrockets", it will severely, regressively hurt the lower-class.

Are you as okay with that as you are with people making racist arguments about gun laws keeping their jobs?


Garage Mahal - no pain, no gain.

Phil 3:14 said...

Why are the Brits so unhappy with their healthcare

I mean they pay so much less than we do and EVERYONE gets healthcare.

Free healthcare has been one of the prerogatives of the British Empire so people have become accustomed to it in a way which is somehow associated with their sense of moral superiority over the rest of the world

(OK, I made that last part up)

MarkD said...

Because our government is causing them by interfering in our ability to exploit our own resources. Betrayal huts a lot more than opposition from an enemy.

This is largely correctable at the ballot box.

MarkW said...

Oh, sheesh. First of all, Europeans have longer commutes than Americans do (by time, not by distance). And Europeans have a huge auto industry and drive a LOT. Traffic around big cities in Europe is worse than the worst in the U.S. (Paris is worse than LA):

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/06/you-only-think-your-commute-sucks/

If you go to Europe and drive around, you find that life on the road is just not that different (other than worse congestion in urban areas)--if you didn't know, you'd hardly be able to tell you were on a French autoroute rather than a U.S. expressway. Fuel prices are higher there, yes, but cars are smaller and there are lots of high MPG diesels with manual transmissions, so fuel cost per mile is much closer than the price per gallon.

chickenlittle said...

Revenant said...
Cars and cheap gas "signify" mobility, freedom, and personal liberty in the sense that having a lot of money signifies being rich.

Cars and cheap gas "signify" mobility, freedom, and personal liberty in the sense that having a little money makes you feel like the rich.

The rich just get to drive better cars. :)

MarkW said...

Oh, sheesh. First of all, Europeans have longer commutes than Americans do (by time, not by distance). And Europeans have a huge auto industry and drive a LOT. Traffic around big cities in Europe is worse than the worst in the U.S. (Paris is worse than LA):

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/06/you-only-think-your-commute-sucks/

If you go to Europe and drive around, you find that life on the road is just not that different (other than worse congestion in urban areas)--if you didn't know, you'd hardly be able to tell you were on a French autoroute rather than a U.S. expressway. Fuel prices are higher there, yes, but cars are smaller and there are lots of high MPG diesels with manual transmissions, so fuel cost per mile is much closer than the price per gallon.

paul a'barge said...

Europeans pay twice as much, and they don't get angry. Maybe that goes to the heart of what Europe is.

Yeah. Suckers. Big ass, bend over, take it in the shorts, please sir may I have another, beat me, whip me, make me pay exorbitant amounts of money for gas suckers.

Look. If you really lurve the Euros, please folks ... go live with them. Take those European values and trot the heck out of America.

You Euro-lovers are like a freakin' virus infection.

Bunch of downers.

LakeLevel said...

Alex: (the US shale oil)That's not likely to be economically feasible to extract even 60% of that.
Bull
That's the average cost for all of it and includes environmental costs, if you don't include the global warming idiocy.

Alex said...

That's the average cost for all of it and includes environmental costs, if you don't include the global warming idiocy.

That part of the country is already in water shortage and you think there will be enough for fracking + people's everyday needs?

Scott M said...

and you think there will be enough for fracking + people's everyday needs?

Stupid question. With a battlestar's power supply, anything is possible.

Chef Mojo said...

@garage:

Well if gas is between 6 and 8 dollars a gallon, a 30% decrease in price would be most welcome relief. That would knock $6.00 a gallon down to $4.20 a gallon.

Now, garage, which would you rather pay?

Nevermind. I know your answer:

"High speed rail!!11!

chickenlittle said...

That part of the country is already in water shortage and you think there will be enough for fracking + people's everyday needs?

You must think Imperial County, CA agriculture is quite a joke.

Just sayin'

Chef Mojo said...

@garage:

Well if gas is between 6 and 8 dollars a gallon, a 30% decrease in price would be most welcome relief. That would knock $6.00 a gallon down to $4.20 a gallon.

Now, garage, which would you rather pay?

Nevermind. I know your answer:

"High speed rail!!11!

Guy said...

"Every Italian man we met on tour wanted to marry an American and come to the US and start a business."

I find that odd. I was in Italy last summer for 3 weeks - Milan, Venice, Rome, southern Italy. Talked to many people there. (I speak Italian)
Young, old, and in-between. I didn't hear one person say he wanted to come to the US, except to visit.

Sounds like you definitely found some outliers. Or were being played for a stupid tourist...

edutcher said...

roesch-voltaire said...

I am angry that we subsidize the oil companies who make huge profits off the increase in gas prices while refusing to drill in the hundreds of sites they already have deeds to drill, because they can make more profits not drilling.

In that case, roesch is like every other Lefty - no thought, just perpetually aggrieved.

The margin for the oil companies is 7 cents a gallon, one of the worst margins in manufacturing.

And a deed to drill does not mean oil is there, only that there are conditions which indicate a possibility of oil. Once the actual survey says, "No oil", not much point in wasting money.

Oh, That's right; that's how the government works.

(I know, I'm being logical again...)

Fen said...

/OT

NRO reports Gingrich announced POTUS run.

"Obama was back on the golf course and could not be reached for comment. Valerie Jarret will be handling all that Executive stuff while he's away."

John Thacker said...

Whoever wrote the article is apparently unfamiliar with the number of European truck blockades done in protest of fuel prices that have occurred in the last 20 years.

Beats anything that I've seen Americans do, though I suppose it was more about taxes, hence obviously the gov't had more to do with it.

Revenant said...

If only Obama could drill more. And then 10 yrs later we could knock off a whole .3 per gallon. Seriously!

The above sarcastic remark would carry more sting if we weren't currently on Year 20 of listening to Democrats explain that there's no point in drilling because the benefits won't arrive for years.

I can understand why some 80 year old Senate behemoth doesn't give a rat's ass about gas prices ten years from now. He'll be dead, and in any case just bills the government for his expenses anyway.

But I personally plan to be alive in ten years. So sneering "it'll only cut prices a little, and not until ten years from now" translates to "so it is glaringly obvious that we should start right away".

Original Mike said...

Because it doesn't have to be this way.

Revenant said...

That part of the country is already in water shortage and you think there will be enough for fracking + people's everyday needs?

Sure. Use reclaimed water.

Alex said...

garage lives to sneer at conservatives.

Original Mike said...

Because it doesn't have to be this way.

Revenant said...

That part of the country is already in water shortage and you think there will be enough for fracking + people's everyday needs?

Sure. Use reclaimed water.

Original Mike said...

"The above sarcastic remark would carry more sting if we weren't currently on Year 20 of listening to Democrats explain that there's no point in drilling because the benefits won't arrive for years."

I remember being lectured to about this when Clinton was in office.

Children say, "it's no use, it will be years before we see any of that oil."

Adults roll up their sleeves and get to work because they know if they don't, they'll be SOL 10 years from now.

Luke Lea said...

Europe is made up of small, compact, densely populated countries with far, far fewer cars on the road, as is readily apparent to anyone who visits. They don't use cars very much, let alone depend on them. Never have and probably never will. $4 means nothing to them.

Seven Machos said...

Leftists love to scoff about fuel prices. It's a psychological response to the utter fact that this single issue is going to cost Obama his second term.

slarrow said...

Complaining that drilling for oil takes too long to have an impact is like arguing that one shouldn't plant trees because they take too long to grow.

Michael K said...

If only Obama could drill more. And then 10 yrs later we could knock off a whole .3 per gallon. Seriously!

This is why so many people think lefties are stupid. Bill Clinton gave the same argument fifteen years ago and it was as phony then as now. Gas prices (and oil prices for you humanities majors) would fall if we showed that we WERE going to drill and increase the supply.

If you understood economics, you would realize that. Markets discount new information immediately, not ten years later.

Seven Machos said...

Not to defend Bill Clinton again but gas prices were crazy low during his administration. And when they threatened to go up slightly, he broke out the national emergency reserves.

Clinton understood economics the way a politician should. Very well.

AJ Lynch said...

We should have only three over-arching priorities at this time:
1- Fix the economy and the govt deficit.
2- National security.
3- Develop a sensible, balanced energy policy.

If an elected official talks about anything else, he should be thrown in a dungeon for many years. For example, I heard two Illinois Republicans want to tax the parents of fat kids! WTF are they thinking?

Seven Machos said...

1- Fix the economy and the govt deficit.
2- National security.
3- Develop a sensible, balanced energy policy.
4- Tax the parents of fat kids.

But that is it!

traditionalguy said...

The inevitability of being used and abused by he ruling aristocrats is European. The will to be free and govern ourselves is American. That is the big difference between King Obama's boys and the attitude that Sarah Palin brings into governance. Obama really loves the UN and its Aristocracy of wealthy tyrants, but Palin really hates their organized crime like she hated the GOP's professional thieves in Alaska's oil and gas development. What is important is that Palin will keep the world's investors here because she is an honest person wjo will run an honest shop , while the world's criminally organized kings and tyrants desperately desire to end that American exceptionalism forever, declaring it over as we speak.

Guy said...

High oil prices are y'day's news. Oil has cracked by $17 a barrel in a week and a half. Unleaded gas prices on the NYMEX fell by almost 26 cents just today.

We've seen the highs in gas and oil along with the rest of the commodity complex.

Pogo said...

"Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?"

Because all along we thought we were buying gas, not that EU commie "petrol" crap they sell the limeys, krauts, and frogs.

Guy said...

High oil prices are y'day's news. Oil has cracked by $17 a barrel in a week and a half. Unleaded gas prices on the NYMEX fell by almost 26 cents just today.

We've seen the highs in gas and oil along with the rest of the commodity complex.

traditionalguy said...

The inevitability of being used and abused by he ruling aristocrats is European. The will to be free and govern ourselves is American. That is the big difference between King Obama's boys and the attitude that Sarah Palin brings into governance. Obama really loves the UN and its Aristocracy of wealthy tyrants, but Palin really hates their organized crime like she hated the GOP's professional thieves in Alaska's oil and gas development. What is important is that Palin will keep the world's investors here because she is an honest person wjo will run an honest shop , while the world's criminally organized kings and tyrants desperately desire to end that American exceptionalism forever, declaring it over as we speak.

AllenS said...

And, if gas prices get any higher, we can just invade other oil producing counties and take their oil. It's a no brainer.

DADvocate said...

some of his critics say he should be doing more to liberate restrictions on American drilling.

Above is the second to the last sentence in the article and the heart of the frustration and anger of many Americans. Our government cares little about the everyday person. The ruling class is too busy catering to fringe groups that will give them that slim edge they need to win the next election.

Working Americans get screwed by the government more than any private company could get away with screwing their employees.

pakurilecz said...

I'm not sure where they get the idea that our gas is "cheap". It is priced according to market conditions. What they don't like is the fact that our gas is not taxed as high as it is in Europe. now if you want to see cheap gas then check out places like Indonesia where IIRC the government subsidizes gasoline in order to artificially keep the price low

dbp said...

We could have a more stable price for oil if we tried.

There are several non-conventional sources of oil: Oil sands (which are being widely exploited in Canada), coal to oil (which is being done commercially in South Africa), natural gas to diesel in (IIRC Oman)and shale which I think is not being done commercially yet.

The problem for most of these is that even after discounting for the billions that would go into constructing plants and other infrastructure, they still cost more than OPEC can do on a marginal cost basis. So, investors are reluctant to build when OPEC can open the spigot and ruin the project by selling at below the marginal cost for non-conventional oil.

We could use the strategic reserve as a way to avoid this whipsaw effect. Set in place a policy to buy oil at a price just above what the non-conventionals need to make a profit (say $50/bbl) also have a policy to sell oil from the reserve when prices are too high (say anytime they are above $100/bbl). The combination of these things will ensure stable pricing and to the extent action is taken, we make a profit.

John Burgess said...

When I was living in the UK in the late 90s, fewer than 50% of Brits had drivers licenses. They're not necessary. And to get one takes an investment of at least a year's time in Driver's Ed at the cost of around $2,000-$3,000.

Of course, they don't use cars the way Americans do.

I had a visiting Brit come to the realization of just who different Europe and the US are when she noted that after four hours of driving, she was still in the same state. You can't do that in any European country (excepting Russia or places with really bad roads).

AJ Lynch said...

Seven Machos:

Please report, at your earliest convenience, to the dungeon. Heh.

Jake said...

Heading to my 15th year grad school class reunion at the University of London next week. Not looking forward to the inevitable political ambushing that is standard at such meetings. As Bill Kristol once said, "Talking to Europeans about American politics is like debating metaphysics at a pajama party of teenage girls". Ugh!

Seven Machos said...

I will now tell my favorite a story of being a Foreign Service Officer. Probably told it before, but...

I was a consul in a European country that was not yet EU (so passport still necessary) but where virtually every visa applicant was accepted. My job was to ask a few questions, try to ascertain that they had no nefarious or illegal reasons for visiting, then approve the visa. Soul sucking.

Anyway, from time to time, I'd get perfectly nice people who wanted to visit the United States for a few weeks and drive to and from places that you simply can't drive to in the time they allotted. I asked my boss what to do? She just smiled -- being much more seasoned than I -- and said that Europeans all think the United States is the size of Western Europe. Let them learn, she said.

Seven Machos said...

"Talking to Europeans about American politics is like debating metaphysics at a pajama party of teenage girls"

I know I've told the one here about the Austrians who would harangue me about American imperialism. I just sat politely and took it.

AJ Lynch said...

Seven:

Those people may be related to Garbage "High Speed Rail is the answer" Mahal.

garage mahal said...

This is why so many people think lefties are stupid. Bill Clinton gave the same argument fifteen years ago and it was as phony then as now. Gas prices (and oil prices for you humanities majors) would fall if we showed that we WERE going to drill and increase the supply.

So show us the cost of a gallon of gas, today, if we had drilled everywhere we could 10 yrs ago. I think it's funny that Obama must do something about the cost of gas, [what exactly is never spelled out], but trying to do something about the cost of health insurance premiums is evil SOCIALISM.

AllenS said...

Who cares about the cost of health insurance premiums, if you can't afford to drive to the doctor.

Pogo said...

" I think it's funny that Obama must do something about the cost of gas, [what exactly is never spelled out], but trying to do something about the cost of health insurance premiums is evil SOCIALISM."


In both, the demand is NOT to "do something" but to "get the hell out the way".

George said...

"think it's funny that Obama must do something about the cost of gas, [what exactly is never spelled out],"

"Drill baby drill" ring any bells Corky?

"but trying to do something about the cost of health insurance premiums is evil SOCIALISM."

The government takeover of private industry is socialism. Look it up.

But these strawman border on retardation, as in both cases the actions dessired are notfor Obama to actually do something, but to STOP doing something.

Original Mike said...

"it's funny that Obama must do something about the cost of gas"

Obama can not do something about the price of gas today. But if he cared about the country, he'd be doing something about the price of gas 10 years from now.

Alex said...

garage is really that dumb, thick and ordinary.

garage mahal said...

In both, the demand is NOT to "do something" but to "get the hell out the way".

LOL. If the feds got any more out of the way they would have to leave the country.

RuyDiaz said...

What's up with Hungarians and Romanians and their long commutes? That's a far more interesting question than the anger hypothetical.

1) For European countries, the nations are not very densely populated. (And hate each other, but that's just trivia.)

2) Socialist planning. What little housing their governments built, they built close to the big industrial projects. When the industrial projects went bust, the workers had to look for jobs elsewhere, lengthening the conmutes.

To visualize (2), imagine Detroit, nation-wide.

garage mahal said...

In both, the demand is NOT to "do something" but to "get the hell out the way".

LOL. If the feds got any more out of the way they would have to leave the country.

Alex said...

LOL. If the feds got any more out of the way they would have to leave the country.

You really are that insane if you think the current reality is laissez faire.

Pogo said...

"If the feds got any more out of the way they would have to leave the country."

A very good thought.

chickenlittle said...

Obama can not do something about the price of gas today. But if he cared about the country, he'd be doing something about the price of gas 10 years from now.

He really does think he's doing something. He nominated Steven Chu to head the DOE, and Obama relies on him to formulate policy according to mandates and goals spelled out in that document I linked at 2:59 PM.

These guys are dead serious about the evils of fossil fuels. Read the document. Chu has toned down his alarmist rhetoric somewhat compared with the past, but it's still the guiding principle.

Higher fuel prices will save us from ourselves & Obama believes and blesses this policy. We just don't know & appreciate it yourselves yet. But when we do know it, we will kiss his ring. Or so he hopes.

This is a huge gamble for POTUS.

Shy Wolf said...

Lemme think about this a moment.
Why should I be upset with $4 a gallon gas?
I'm a carpenter. I drive as much as 60 miles one way in a pickup loaded with tools, and lumber and often pull a trailer of logs.
What European does that? What high brow European carries a truck load of tools on the train? What wonderful low-brow European does that?
Furthermore, what green weenie electric car is going to do that? Often, my 'power tool' is a gas chainsaw because there's no electricity.
Those morons piss me off with their stupidity. Goddamn libs.
If they'd let Americans drill for oil instead of fucking commie countries, we wouldn't be having this problem. But guess what- we have a bat eared fag in the White House.
Shy III

traditionalguy said...

Chickelit....No educated scientist believes in trace gas CO2 warming up this rapidly cooling globe, but every government fed High Priest is a true believer in the Governmental Religion's ability to save us from scary stuff. They must make up the new hoax scary stuff faster than a Hollywood writer. That Obama is perfectly willing to send all working Americans, and sooner or later the lazy government High Priests as well, into a replay of the 1700s Malthusian economic death spiral makes Obama our #1 enemy.

Shy Wolf said...

Lemme think about this a moment.
Why should I be upset with $4 a gallon gas?
I'm a carpenter. I drive as much as 60 miles one way in a pickup loaded with tools, and lumber and often pull a trailer of logs.
What European does that? What high brow European carries a truck load of tools on the train? What wonderful low-brow European does that?
Furthermore, what green weenie electric car is going to do that? Often, my 'power tool' is a gas chainsaw because there's no electricity.
Those morons piss me off with their stupidity. Goddamn libs.
If they'd let Americans drill for oil instead of fucking commie countries, we wouldn't be having this problem. But guess what- we have a bat eared fag in the White House.
Shy III

Original Mike said...

@chickelit: But then he should OWN IT. He should stand up like a man and say, "I want high gas prices. It's my policy." But instead, he's blaming "speculators".

garage mahal said...

Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump, as of yet...

Jose_K said...

we would have steamrolled, subjugated, colonized, and exploited the rest of the world starting on November 18th, 1991.
1945 was a better point. Instead of allowing the russian to reach Berlin first,save the germans from the russian and then the latter to the Bering sea. Or even 1919, UK broke. Germany destroyed and Russia in civil war
And btw in ppp oil is cheaper than in 1979

Fred4Pres said...

Eurotrash make me want to puke.

America is a big continent. It is not like the Canadians have a better mass transit system. We fly to get to far places. Otherwise we drive. Our towns are decentralized.

And yeah, we don't like paying $4 a gallon for gasoline. I do not cry or knash teeth over it, but I do not care for paying more. That the British are fine with paying $8 a gallon (or for four liters) just means they are chumps.

Jose_K said...

Mustn't hurt Mother Gaia by drilling into her you know.

That is the way japan was created

Fred4Pres said...

Eurotrash make me want to puke.

America is a big continent. It is not like the Canadians have a better mass transit system. We fly to get to far places. Otherwise we drive. Our towns are decentralized.

And yeah, we don't like paying $4 a gallon for gasoline. I do not cry or knash teeth over it, but I do not care for paying more. That the British are fine with paying $8 a gallon (or for four liters) just means they are chumps.

chickenlittle said...

An unintended consequence of the Administration's policy is that anything energy intensive "Made-In-America" will become intrinsically more expensive because we are being coerced into using relatively more expensive alternative energy sources (more expensive with respect to cheap hydrocarbons still found in Russia and the Middle East—which others will still use).

One angle I can envision (that doesn’t spell economic suicide for us) is that if our currency becomes so devalued with respect to other currencies, things we produce will become profitable again for export. That and our Ag products, which we've always been able to export, an up-and-coming Brazil notwithstanding.

chickenlittle said...

@chickelit: But then he should OWN IT. He should stand up like a man and say, "I want high gas prices. It's my policy." But instead, he's blaming "speculators".

Secretary Chu still owns it. But Obama won't own Chu. Even though he nominated him and praises him up and down. Political expedience I suppose.

Original Mike said...

"Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump, as of yet..."

Having more oil would raise the price?

I do not know what the price of oil will be in 10 years, relative to today. But I damn well know that if we begin more drilling projects today, the price of oil in 10 years will be lower relative to the price of oil in 10 years if we don't.

Children. Fucking children.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"Why are Americans so angry about petrol prices?"

Stupid question, if you live here. Indicates a lack of economic understanding, for starters.

If you live in euro-topia, understandable. Mediocrity is their ubiquitous legacy.

Here's a question: Why should we care what eurotrash think anyways?

Original Mike said...

"Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump, as of yet..."

Having more oil would raise the price?

I do not know what the price of oil will be in 10 years, relative to today. But I damn well know that if we begin more drilling projects today, the price of oil in 10 years will be lower relative to the price of oil in 10 years if we don't.

Children. Fucking children.

DADvocate said...

If the feds got any more out of the way they would have to leave the country.

Fine by me. Show them the door.

gargage - you've reached new lows in sub-logic.

Original Mike said...

"Political expedience I suppose."

Obama's a pussy.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@garage

"Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump, as of yet..."

I'm invoking Fen's Law on you.

There is no way in Sam Houston that you believe that.

Must be your asshole talking because I think your mouth may know better.

If you do, you truly have shit for brains, garage. Really!

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Fred

"That the British are fine with paying $8 a gallon (or for four liters) just means they are chumps."

They are apparently fine with bad teeth, too. And to make matters worse, bad food. I don't give a rip what they think.

Maguro said...

Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump, as of yet...

Surely you're not this clueless. What do you think happens to the price of a commodity when the supply of said commodity increases?

Big Mike said...

@Don't Tread, you're certainly right about British cuisine, if I can debase the term "cuisine" by applying it to British cooking.

First time I was in the UK (as a student with a BritRail pass) I had bangers and mash. I ordered it again in a second city because I couldn't believe that the food could be that bad -- it had to be an aberration.

Except it wasn't. Based on that trip I am convinced that British bangers consist of nothing but sawdust and grease.

garage mahal said...

Evidence, not conjecture. Start with the spike in recent gas prices to decrease in said oil commodity. Hell, even an Exxon funded think tank report would be a start.

ken in sc said...

S-V, are you not aware that after 200 years of success, the UAW drove Studebaker out of Indiana and the US into Canada, and after a few years out of existence? Why do you people never learn the negative results of your desires?

garage mahal said...

Evidence, not conjecture. Start with the spike in recent gas prices to decrease in said oil commodity. Hell, even an Exxon funded think tank report would be a start.

Revenant said...

but trying to do something about the cost of health insurance premiums is evil SOCIALISM

It is really just a failure to communicate.

The People: "We want someone to do something about the cost of health insurance premiums!"

Obama: "No problem! I'll make sure they increase rapidly. But in exchange you'll have to agree to receive less in benefits."

The People: "We should have been more specific when we said 'do something'!"

Revenant said...

Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump

Supply and demand are something that happens to other people, apparently. ;)

Big Mike said...

Oh, that's right. We were talking about the price of gasoline.

At this point the United States has grown dependent on cheap gasoline. I have had young engineers working for me or that I'm otherwise acquainted with who live wa-a-a-a-y out in the countryside so that they could afford to buy a house with a little land where they and their wives can raise kids with some lawn for the little ones to run on.

Raise the price of gas enough and those engineers would have negligible takehome pay after they paid for gasoline. And it should not escape anyone's notice that they can't readily sell their houses in today's market -- thanks to Franks, Dodd, Obama, and the rest of the Democrat party.

American liberals and Europeans want American families to live in the city and to have their kids play in the street.

RuyDiaz said...

I'm invoking Fen's Law on you.

@ Don't Tread;

I disagree. Allow me to explain.

You are thinking in terms of economics; it is mind-bogglingly simple to reason than an increase of supply of a commodity will lead to a lower price. Common sense, logic, and experience tells you the world works that way.

But he's thinking in ideological, even religious terms: every good-thinking person knows that fossil fuels are evil; every good-thinking person knows that drilling is bad. BUT high prices hurt poor people... so, we conclude, on faith, that drilling for oil in the US would not help poor people.

In the name of Gaia, Amen.

Maguro said...

The law of supply and demand is now "conjecture", garage, really?

Not much to discuss if that's your position.

Revenant said...

Nobody has shown any evidence that drilling on U.S. soil would save one penny at the pump

Supply and demand are something that happens to other people, apparently. ;)

Big Mike said...

Oh, that's right. We were talking about the price of gasoline.

At this point the United States has grown dependent on cheap gasoline. I have had young engineers working for me or that I'm otherwise acquainted with who live wa-a-a-a-y out in the countryside so that they could afford to buy a house with a little land where they and their wives can raise kids with some lawn for the little ones to run on.

Raise the price of gas enough and those engineers would have negligible takehome pay after they paid for gasoline. And it should not escape anyone's notice that they can't readily sell their houses in today's market -- thanks to Franks, Dodd, Obama, and the rest of the Democrat party.

American liberals and Europeans want American families to live in the city and to have their kids play in the street.

RuyDiaz said...

I'm invoking Fen's Law on you.

@ Don't Tread;

I disagree. Allow me to explain.

You are thinking in terms of economics; it is mind-bogglingly simple to reason than an increase of supply of a commodity will lead to a lower price. Common sense, logic, and experience tells you the world works that way.

But he's thinking in ideological, even religious terms: every good-thinking person knows that fossil fuels are evil; every good-thinking person knows that drilling is bad. BUT high prices hurt poor people... so, we conclude, on faith, that drilling for oil in the US would not help poor people.

In the name of Gaia, Amen.

garage mahal said...

You mean, you got nothing.

Maguro said...

You mean, you got nothing

Hilarious, coming from a law of supply and demand denialist.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@RuyDiaz

Thank you so much for setting me straight :)

In the name of Gaia, Amen.

@Maguro

Garage? Conjecture?

Like peanut butter and jelly.

(Shit now pb&j is likely to chime in)

Maguro said...

You mean, you got nothing

Hilarious, coming from a law of supply and demand denialist.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@garage

"You mean, you got nothing."

Kettle, meet pot.

At least C4BDH puts up more of a fight than a pussy like you garagi.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"The above sarcastic remark would carry more sting if we weren't currently on Year 20 of listening to Democrats explain that there's no point in drilling because the benefits won't arrive for years."

I remember being lectured to about this when Clinton was in office.

Hell, I remember being lectured about this when CARTER was in office. Of course the other boogey man was global cooling, the coming ice age, instead of global warming.

Also butter is bad, coffee is bad and a whole bunch of other happy horseshit that we now know was all completely false. However, the falsity, didn't stop the government from slowly taking over our lives and micromanaging everything ....did it?

garage mahal said...

Hilarious, coming from a law of supply and demand denialist.<

No I'm just skeptical of the claim that drilling in the U.S. will effect the price of gas at the pump in any meaningful way. It's not even "our" oil to begin with, is it?

chickenlittle said...

It's not even "our" oil to begin with, is it?

What's that, a veiled wish to nationalize oil?

garage mahal said...

Why shouldn't a country own the oil beneath it?

RuyDiaz said...

No I'm just skeptical of the claim that drilling in the U.S. will effect the price of gas at the pump in any meaningful way. It's not even "our" oil to begin with, is it?

You really are this thick.

Once the oil is on the market, it doesn't matter whose oil it is, it needs to find a buyer. If Saudi Arabia decides to increase production, the price of oil will adjust downward.


Now, to the rest of the posters/lurkers:

There are two additional benefits to increasing domestic production:

First, rather obviously, it would increase total domestic output--it would make us richer directly.

Second, it would make it harder for the price to really skyrocket; since production in the US is more expensive, as the price goes up, more areas become profitable, and production at those times could be higher.

Unfortunately, Mother Gaia disagrees, so we can't have that.

RuyDiaz said...

Why shouldn't a country own the oil beneath it?

Ah, didn't expect this; he's actually a third-worldist. Onward comrade! Let's kick those dirty Yanks!

Hahahahahah....

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said...
Why shouldn't a country own the oil beneath it?

I'm more familiar with intellectual property rights than actual property rights but I would say it has something to do with mineral wealth in underlying tracks of land.

If you're talking about something like ANWAR, then I think the Feds or the State of Alaska should get a cut. But what's to motivate the extractors of that mineral wealth?

Surely you don't look to countries like Venezuela or Mexico, or Cuba as models?

Do you?
_______
wv = "maters" Mothers-God Bless them.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Public transport is generally poor so many Americans have no alternative but to drive.

Not so much as poor but impractible outside of major cities. About five years ago during the Hilly Hundred, this Dutch chick who was an exchange student was lecturing some of us about how the Dutch ride everywhere and how we Yanks should do that too. I reminded her that Indiana is about the size of Holland and we are just one of 57 states that are bigger than her pissant country so bikes aren't practical for day to day commute.

She was kind of hot but dumb like a chair like most leftists.

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said...
Why shouldn't a country own the oil beneath it?

Suppose something valuable were found under your garage.

Should "we" own it?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Public transport is generally poor so many Americans have no alternative but to drive.

Not so much as poor but impractible outside of major cities. About five years ago during the Hilly Hundred, this Dutch chick who was an exchange student was lecturing some of us about how the Dutch ride everywhere and how we Yanks should do that too. I reminded her that Indiana is about the size of Holland and we are just one of 57 states that are bigger than her pissant country so bikes aren't practical for day to day commute.

She was kind of hot but dumb like a chair like most leftists.

RuyDiaz said...

@ chickelit;

Surely he does. I've seen his kind around the internet. Nationalizing mineral resources is one of their fondest desires.

LarsPorsena said...

Why is the price of oil so high?

It's purchased with dollars.

Obama through the Fed has set the printing presses to running overtime.

More Dollars then the value of the dollar declines.

The price of oil (and gold) goes up.

It's part of BO's recovery plan for America.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Why shouldn't a country own the oil beneath it?

Should the country/government own the minerals below your house? and therefore have the right to drill baby drill under your foundation or just take your property so they can get to THEIR minerals?

If you discovered coal, gold or silver on your property, why SHOULDN'T it belong to the government?

How about the water in your aquifer? Can they decide to pump your well dry?

How about the air over your property. If you use the government's air for electricity, why shouldn't that belong to the government.

If they own the oil beneath the ground, how about they own the plants that grow above the ground and take the produce from your garden?
After all, why shouldn't they own it since it is in the country.

I hope (probably in vain) that you see the idiocy of your position visa vi Oil.

garage mahal said...

Surely you don't look to countries like Venezuela or Mexico, or Cuba as models?


I don't think we're sitting on nearly enough oil. But I say of Exxon drills on our soil or waters, gets billions of taxpayer subsidies, they sell it to us cheaper than anyone else. And start paying some fucking taxes.

Fred4Pres said...

Don't Tread 2012 said...
@Fred

"That the British are fine with paying $8 a gallon (or for four liters) just means they are chumps."

They are apparently fine with bad teeth, too. And to make matters worse, bad food. I don't give a rip what they think.

5/11/11 6:12 PM



I actually like pub fare (scotch eggs rock) and properly done fish and chips (although Italians do better fried fish by far). I consider ale to be food. Ale also should be the base of the food group pyramid. But beyond that, I totally agree.

LarsPorsena said...

garage mahal said...
Why shouldn't a country own the oil beneath it?

Why shouldn't a country's government own everything. If it owns what's underneath, why not everything on top?

Fred4Pres said...

You might want to look at your deed. In many places the government does own any oil, coal, minerals and other valuables under your property. In many places the government specifically reserved those rights. Usually it says they cannot disturb the surface to get them (without paying you damages).

chickenlittle said...

@LarsPorsena: Astute

Actually, it's a conspiracy of Nobel Intentions.

Fred4Pres said...

You might want to look at your deed. In many places the government does own any oil, coal, minerals and other valuables under your property. In many places the government specifically reserved those rights. Usually it says they cannot disturb the surface to get them (without paying you damages).

LarsPorsena said...

"I say of Exxon drills on our soil or waters, gets billions of taxpayer subsidies, they sell it to us cheaper than anyone else. And start paying some fucking taxes."

I didn't know Exxon was part of the 47% who pay nothing. That's an outrage! /sarcasm

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Hoosier

"Not so much as poor but impractible outside of major cities."

Agreed. here in NY state our representative retard Chucky Schumer crowed about how Florida's loss of funds was NY's gain...so NY could waste the money on a high speed train from Albany to Buffalo. Woo hoo.

Why? Best most of us working squids can tell, so ole Chucky can claim credit for the 'spoils' he got for NY. Only reason anyone might ride to Albany is to lobby the dem apparatchik. Aha!

RuyDiaz said...

Garage, you economic genius you, they don't have sell us the oil any cheaper, for the extra oil to make a difference in the global market.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@Hoosier

"Not so much as poor but impractible outside of major cities."

Agreed. here in NY state our representative retard Chucky Schumer crowed about how Florida's loss of funds was NY's gain...so NY could waste the money on a high speed train from Albany to Buffalo. Woo hoo.

Why? Best most of us working squids can tell, so ole Chucky can claim credit for the 'spoils' he got for NY. Only reason anyone might ride to Albany is to lobby the dem apparatchik. Aha!

LarsPorsena said...

"I say of Exxon drills on our soil or waters, gets billions of taxpayer subsidies, they sell it to us cheaper than anyone else. And start paying some fucking taxes."

I didn't know Exxon was part of the 47% who pay nothing. That's an outrage! /sarcasm

LarsPorsena said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Maguro said...

I don't think we're sitting on nearly enough oil. But I say of Exxon drills on our soil or waters, gets billions of taxpayer subsidies, they sell it to us cheaper than anyone else. And start paying some fucking taxes

What a bunch of economically illiterate gobbledygook. Gas is expensive because crude oil is expensive, full stop. Exxon does not set the price of crude oil. If anyone sets the price of crude, it's the Saudi government, but even they're just the biggest producer among many.

If you want the price of oil to go down, someone somewhere needs to produce more, whether that's us or the Saudis or Russia or whoever. I figure it may as well be us.

chickenlittle said...

garage mahal said:

And start paying some fucking taxes.

Along with 47% of Americans.

LarsPorsena said...

Delete Comment From: Althouse

Blogger LarsPorsena said...

chickelit said...

"@LarsPorsena: Astute

Actually, it's a conspiracy of Nobel Intentions."

Damn! I thought I was having a moment of clarity and all I was doing was channeling Krugman.
Thanks for the link anyway...

roesch-voltaire said...

As an investor in Canadian oil companies trying to extract heavy crude in places from China to Ecuador. I have to laugh at some of the simplistic thinking about drill in our own yard and quickly. Its taken years and costs millions just to get heavy crude processed and converted to a product that meets pipeline specifications, and then it still may not be marketable. And when there are indications that the China market is cooling, as there was today the stocks and the progress take a dip. Oh yea supply and demand, trust me as the cost of drilling in the future will be high, the price of gas will not be cheaper, but you can count on the profits being huge just as they are today. To cover your ass figure out which oil stocks to buy, just like the way to cover your electronic costs was to buy apple five years ago, because big oil and government will work together to screw you.

Fen said...

Want to see Garage's brain freeze? Talk about the number of union pensions invested in Exxon.

Synova said...

Cheap gas prices do more than make it possible for people to commute to work, give them more choices about where to work within a reasonable commute radius, give them more choices about where to live, and drive whenever they want to for non-working reasons.

Cheap fuel allows the distribution of food and goods and aids manufacturers to reach consumers. It's good for the economy far far beyond an individual's personal pain when they fill their gas tank.

Fen said...

As an investor in Canadian oil companies trying to extract heavy crude in places from China to Ecuador

Weakest appeal to authority ever.

Did you check with your broker first? "Hey, you put some of my money into oil right?...Oh.... Canada? ... Cool."

roesch-voltaire said...

Fen, I long ago stopped using a broker. I stick to investing in areas that I know, which is why I bought Ford at 1.25 and sold at 15.

garage mahal said...

Garage, you economic genius you, they don't have sell us the oil any cheaper,

I'm saying they should. And since nobody here can produce one shred of evidence that paying Exxon with tax payer dollars to drill on our soil benefits us economically, I'll remain unswayed.

Again: the recent spike in gas prices. Where is the evidence there was a shortage of global oil supply?

LarsPorsena said...

"I'm saying they should. And since nobody here can produce one shred of evidence that paying Exxon with tax payer dollars to drill on our soil benefits us economically, I'll remain unswayed. "

First prove Exxon is 'paid' with taxpayer dollars to drill 'our' soil.
Second the only time you can use the expression 'our soil' is if you are standing on property that you have a fee simple deed to and have a mouse in your pocket.

Maguro said...

Again: the recent spike in gas prices. Where is the evidence there was a shortage of global oil supply?

The spike in the price of crude oil is the evidence of a relative shortage in the global oil supply. Likewise, id oil prices decline sharply, that is evidence of a relative glut in the global oil aupply.

Very simple, really, and Exxon has nothing to do with it.

garage mahal said...

4 billion of taxpayer money goes to the oil and gas industry each year. Exxon is a recipient.

Seven Machos said...

Fine, Garage. We take you at your word. Cut it all. What other $96,000,000,000 in cuts do you want to make?

LarsPorsena said...

"garage mahal said...

4 billion of taxpayer money goes to the oil and gas industry each year. Exxon is a recipient."

Gotta' source for those numbers other than a fevered imagination.

garage mahal said...

Lars
Just google it, and pick a source you trust. It's not a secret, many congress critters are squawking about ending them.

LarsPorsena said...

I just did..you're making this shit up.

Good night, sleep tight.

Maguro said...

You can get the details behind garage's $4B figure here.

The short version is, it's a bullshit liberal talking point, as you may have suspected.

garage mahal said...

You sure you have the right link?

One of the main so-called subsidies that Mr. Obama wants to eliminate is for the expensing of intangible drilling costs, which has been part of the tax code since its inception.

Isn't that what I said upthread?

Seven Machos said...

One of the main so-called subsidies that Mr. Obama wants to eliminate is for the expensing of intangible drilling costs, which has been part of the tax code since its inception.

And so I was exactly right. A tax deduction is a subsidy. For socialists such as Garage, the government owns everything and people have limited rights to certain things, until by whim and fiat those limited rights are taken away.

You are a tool, Garage.

Maguro said...

Right, the oil industry takes $4B in tax deductions, which garage regards as "subsidies". His beloved green energy industry, on the other hand hand, recieves $21B annually in direct government funding and garage regards these handouts as "investments".

garage mahal said...

LOL. "expensing of intangible drilling costs" is.......I don't know? What do we call it? Mysterious! Not a subsidy though. Nope. But there is no doubt "expensing home heating costs for the poor" is socialist welfare.

Maguro said...

garage, regardless of the merits of the deductions in question, there is a difference between a tax deduction and a subsidy. One involves the government electing to let you keep some more of your money, the other involves the government giving you some of someone else's money. You either don't understand this distinction or are willfully obfuscating the issue to score political points.

Fred4Pres said...

Europeans riot if the least government benefit is cut.

Americans just gripe if gasoline prices go up.

Seriously Europe, go fuck yourselves.

Cindy Martin said...

Americans use their cars more, so the pain is greater. They have, on average, a longer daily commute than all Europeans.....

And hence, our lower longevity rates. More driving and more murders is what the WHO study forgot to include, not to mention different ways we measure infant mortaltiy rates which skew longevity rates even more.

shana said...

British people ARE angry about the price of gas. It's just the BBC chooses not to notice.

Methadras said...

Enough with calling America an empire? Where is the empire of America? If it were an empire, then most of the world would have been conquered by it and undesirables removed from it. And with regard to the non-anger that Europeans display, professor, I think you have it confused with docile acceptance of fate. Why fight that which you cannot win? That is in essence the heart of Europe.

annk said...

"I was a consul in a European country that was not yet EU (so passport still necessary) . . . Anyway, from time to time, I'd get perfectly nice people who wanted to visit the United States for a few weeks and drive to and from places that you simply can't drive to in the time they allotted. I asked my boss what to do? She just smiled -- being much more seasoned than I -- and said that Europeans all think the United States is the size of Western Europe. Let them learn, she said."

Several years ago, one of those Irish clog dancing troupes was scheduled to perform at my university in Sunny Central Texas. The show started two hours late because they had performed in El Paso the night before and waited until that morning to leave.

Jay said...

4 billion of taxpayer money goes to the oil and gas industry each year. Exxon is a recipient."


Actually, it doesn't.

You are a shameless liar garbage.

garage mahal said...

Then I'm sure the oil industry won't mind if Democrats eliminate subsidies that don't even exist.

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