May 4, 2011

"What I said was the same thing that the audience here today heard me say, which is, if Pakistan is unable or unwilling to hunt down bin Laden and take him out, then we should."

"Now, that I think has to be our policy, because they are threatening to kill more Americans," said Barack Obama at the Town Hall Debate, on October 7, 2008.



Meade woke up this morning wanting to look that up. Speaking of things clarified during sleep, I woke up on the morning of October 8, 2008 and "decided to concentrate my mind on the question which man won the debate.... It was Barack Obama...." That was the post where I abandoned my vow of "cruel neutrality" as an observer of the 2008 campaign, and said my vote for Obama was "almost inevitable." After the election, when I analyzed my path of decisionmaking — in the post called "How McCain Lost Me" — I said: "So this was the crucial tipping point. Dear readers, it was right there, the morning after the Town Hall debate."

And now, 2 1/2 years after he voted for McCain, here's Meade, drawn back to that same debate. He IM's me the link to that clip about Pakistan. We talk at some length, and he tells me I made the right decision. So you wish you'd voted for him? Yes.

274 comments:

1 – 200 of 274   Newer›   Newest»
Mark O said...

More. More rationalizations. Tell yourself that it really was a good thing to vote for the phony. Work through your issues without disturbing your sense of self. It was right at the time.

Sounds like a chick picked up in a bar by a smooth operator who still can’t get over it, even now.

Titus said...

This is depressing.

I really wish you would rethink your vote for Obama.

It is one thing that I have never forgiven you for.

Traitor.

Phil 3:14 said...

GIVE IT A REST!

MayBee said...

What?

Meade now wishes he had voted for Obama?

After all that he has done?

The Crack Emcee said...

Good Lord.

I'll say it again:

A person doesn't get credit for doing what they were supposed to do.

In reality, it's the fact Obama's finally done something right - three years in - that anyone's surprised at all.


Give it up, Ann. It's embarrassing.

Fen said...

MCCAIN: "I don't think that Senator Obama understands that there was a failed state in Pakistan when Musharraf came to power. Everybody who was around then, and had been there, and knew about it knew that it was a failed state.

We've got to get the support of the people of -- of Pakistan. He said that he would launch military strikes into Pakistan.

Now, you don't do that. You don't say that out loud. If you have to do things, you have to do things, and you work with the Pakistani government"

Phil 3:14 said...

Feminism and the 2008 election,

the two Achilles heals of Prof. Althouse.

Fen said...

Just so we're clear - if the Paki government falls and its nuclear arsenal falls into Jihadi hands, its not Bush's fault.

MayBee said...

Do you really think McCain wouldn't have done this?

Brian Hancock said...

I'm with Meade

Marshal said...

Not sure how this means Obama was a better choice for President. I doubt McCain would have any qualms going after Bin Laden. The difference is still that Obama believes the fantasy that (a) taking money from anyone who has it and handing it to people who vote for him "stimulates" the economy, and (b) a government takeover of healthcare will improve both the cost and effectiveness of that industry.

It's nice he's willing to do the minimum in foreign policy, but his disastrous ideas (and priorities) have always been domestic.

MayBee said...

From Fen:
Now, you don't do that. You don't say that out loud. If you have to do things, you have to do things, and you work with the Pakistani government

That was the big difference. McCain is saying if you have to do things, you have to do things. You don't say it out loud.

Patrick said...

I was thinking about Prof. Althouse's oft stated belief that Obama would govern from the "pragmatic center" or some such phrase. I voted McCain, I don't regret doing so. I think Obama was not prepared for the job, and I do not think he has done much in the way of leading. Indeed, his most obvious attempt was his Libya policy which appears to be poorly thought out, poorly executed and yielding poor results. His "leading" on Obama care was a precursor to "leading from behind," albeit behind Pelosi and Reid rather than Sarkozy.

That said, his decisions on miltiary tribunals, G'tmo, drones in Pakistan, staying in Afghanistan, not cutting out (immediately) in Iraq, all of which tick off his base, were, dare I say it, correct.

Hopefully, he will get the hint that in order to be a good President, he needs to abandon his base, and leave behind Senator Obama.

bagoh20 said...

It's campaign talk for Christ's sake. You do realize what else he said that year, most of which he completely lied about. I mean, you can have your reasons, but because he said something I liked during the campaign, should not be one for any politician, especially this one. But you know, we didn't get much else to judge him on. You simply hoped, and have been waiting for 2 years for him to do something right. Congrats!

A few other things said in the campaign by Obama:

Campaign within public financing limits
Get out of Iraq
Close Gtmo
Turn back the Patriot Act
End the electronic surveillance expanded under Bush
Post bills on the internet before signing
Delay signing bills for 72 hours.
Get congressional vote before starting new military interventions
Get U.N. approval before committing U.S. military
End Bush tax cuts
Officially recognize the Armenian Genocide.
Try foreign terrorism suspects in civilian courts


* I'll get Osama in Pakistan if needed.

MikeR said...

Because of this, you made the right decision? Mind-bogglingly silly, IMHO. Some clown of a terrorist in Pakistan is more important than the economy?
Anyhow, McCain would have done it too. Of course.

Patrick said...

Plus, I voted McCain, but was annoyed at his constant need to "be liked," and his apparent belief that the US could do the right thing, and still be liked. He never seemed to understand that doing the right thing frequently entails being despised.

Patrick said...

Fen, You are correct, but really, if the Jihadis get their miserable hands on Pakistan's nukes, it won't matter whose fault it is. Boom.

Fen said...

The difference is still that Obama believes

The difference is that Team Obama are the Keystone Kops, as witnessed in every other exercise of foreign policy. If there's a way to flip Pakistan over to the Jihad, they'll stumble into it.

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Mind-bogglingly silly

More like mind-blogingly silly.

bagoh20 said...

Oh yea, I forgot one: He promised to adopt a rescue dog, then he went to a puppy mill. Big things, small things, he knew you could be had with the right lie and he covered all bases just in case.

MayBee said...

That said, his decisions on miltiary tribunals, G'tmo, drones in Pakistan, staying in Afghanistan, not cutting out (immediately) in Iraq, all of which tick off his base, were, dare I say it, correct.

Many of these were not decisions he made, but decisions forced upon him.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

If McCain were president, I suspect we'd not only have the healthcare law, but we'd also have a Cap & Trade law. And nobody would be talking about repealing either of them. That's because McCain would have forced the Republicans to work out compromises with Pelosi and Reid.

I voted for McCain, but I hated myself for doing so. And in hingsight, it's probably better he did not win. We have no Cap & Trade law and we at least have a chance of repealing the HCR law if the GOP wins in 2012.

bagoh20 said...

I don't mind that you voted for Obama - the choice sucked, but I would more respect that you chose by eni, meenie, miny, moe...

But that would be racist, so you get my point. Stop trying to rationalize voting for the Democrat... again, and again , and again. That's just what you always did.

Fred4Pres said...

The power of Ann to turn Meade into an Obama supporter. Sad really.

Do you really think John McCain would have "slept on it" over whether or not to take out bin Laden and then would have demurred over Pakistani soveriegntry?

Come on.

G Joubert said...

Sophistry.

Not only would McCain have done this, he wouldn't have dithered for months.

Moreover, Obama's handling of things economic has been utterly abysmal. I can't help but think McCain would've been at least marginally better, if not markedly better.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

We talk at some length, and he tells me I made the right decision. So you wish you'd voted for him? Yes.


So, because Obama did ONE thing right, even though it appears that he drug his feet and had to be literally coerced into doing it.....NOW, it somehow overrides all the other permanent damage that he has done to the economy of the Country.

Now, you rationalize that your foolish, unthinking, knee jerk, sheeplike decision to vote for Obama was the right one? Now....really.

Do you ever really examine your own motives or do you always lie to yourself.

PS. Meade is only agreeing with you because he wants to get laid sometime in the next decade.

MadisonMan said...

Why the need to look back and think What if....?

Vote for who you think is the best Candidate, and deal with the outcome. Hope for the best when you vote, and then move on. (No .org pun intended).

Fred4Pres said...

It would have been an almost impeachable offense (in my opinion) not to act on such intelligence.

Palladian said...

All it takes is shooting someone in the face to make everyone suddenly decide that he's a great President? The bumblings, mistakes, terrible ideas and disastrous policies have suddenly faded away?

File this one under: Look, everyone! I'm an independent!

Titus said...

I believe this decision by Meade may have something to do with sex.

bagoh20 said...

Both candidates in the campaign were reacting to their critics. Consequently, you get Obama talking tough, and McCain talking restraint, while both would make the same decision when it came. Please tell me this was not really a decision maker for you. That's incredibly naive.

And you, a law professor.

Fred4Pres said...

And Ann, you took McCain's comment out of context too. But regardless, Obama dithering (I suspect) was over the perception of failure if he was unsuccessful. I want a leader who does what he thinks is best, does it, and then stands behind his decision (good or bad).

I certainly have my problems with John McCain. I had my problems with George Bush too. But the damage done to this country over the last several years is amazing and while I am glad Obama did the right thing with attacking Osama bin Laden, trying to justify a vote over this is pretty weak.

Rabel said...

You give the man far too much credit. He took a campaign position that looked strong in contrast with McCain's attempt to appear in the know about "how these things are handled."
The Osama hit had nothing to do with anything he said in order to get elected. After two years worth of examples, do you really think this was a matter of fulfilling an election promise? You still trust him?

Palladian said...

"So, because Obama did ONE thing right, even though it appears that he drug his feet and had to be literally coerced into doing it....."

It's sort of like when you have a really stupid, talentless kid and they manage to make it all the way through "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" without a mistake at their piano recital and you convince yourself that they're headed to Julliard.

Titus said...

Sometimes men think with their cocks rather than their heads.

I was guilty of that when I was younger.

But now that I am older and have grown and am married the cock isn't that important anymore. It's all about what is on the inside rather than the outside. I can't believe I just wrote that.

traditionalguy said...

Yes, yes, yes Obama has a cool leadership style and keeps his eye on the prize. A natural leader....but where does he plan to lead us? All indications are he wants to lead us into military weakness and abject poverty ruled by a socialist oligarchy dedicated to the concept of getting the population back down to 80 million or so workers who are in peonage as caretakers of nature.

Fred4Pres said...

Titus said...
I believe this decision by Meade may have something to do with sex.

5/4/11 10:30 AM



You may be immune to it Titus, but the power of coochie is a very strong force for most of us men. Physics can track various forces like electromagnetic, gravity, the strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. But sometimes, no force is stronger than coochie.

pbAndj said...

So, has Meade concluded that BHO's so-called Americanness-deficit is not such a big deal after all?

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Russ Wood said...

Prof. Althouse, your ongoing efforts to justify your vote for Obama get less persuasive with time.

He could take his position on attacking Pakistan only because he got a free pass from the Press -- any Repub would have been crucified for the same position. Cheap courage.

But, if getting OBL was of overriding concern in your 2008 vote, then Obama's position on attacking Pakistan could have been the deciding factor for you. But I don't believe that you were a one-issue voter, and too many other, more important factors, militated against an Obama vote.

But MEADE now wishes he'd voted for Obama? I suspect some miscommunication between you, or Meade getting carried away with elation over OBL's demise.

Fen said...

It's sort of like when you have a really stupid, talentless kid and they manage to make it all the way through "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" without a mistake at their piano recital and you convince yourself that they're headed to Julliard.

Or like when the office diversity hire actually shoulders 10% of the workload without filing an EEO complaint. His co-workers are ecstatic.

jr565 said...

Fen wrote:
Now, you don't do that. You don't say that out loud. If you have to do things, you have to do things, and you work with the Pakistani government"


That should be reread by Ann, since she doesn't seem to be too swift on the uptake. Mccain wasn't saying he wouldn't take action without Pakistan's help. he was saying you don't telegraph the move to them ahead of time in public, since we are going to have to work with them until that point.

Palladian said...

This obsession with justifying how one voted nearly three years ago is reaching Lady Macbeth/bloody hands proportions.

But it does bring in the traffic.

Titus said...

"no force is stronger than coochie"

That is hilarious.

The coochie has quite a bit of power. So do tits.

Women wave them around like a dagger. And sometimes, I believe, they take advantage or abuse that power for personal gain.

PaulV said...

The election of Obama has decimated the democrat party. Only good thing about it.

WV graeutsh
low german spoke in Austria

Titus said...

"But it does bring in the traffic".

That is what is most important.

Juba Doobai! said...

No. I'd never wish I'd voted for Obama. Look at what he's done to the U.S. economy. The guy's a disaster. What he says is meaningless, unless it's something about his core communist, Alinskyite beliefs. Panetta had to drag him kicking and screaming to kill bin Laden. 16 hours!!! 16 frickin' hours it took this dolt to decide the SEALs should pull the trigger. And you're happy you voted for Obama, Althouse, and asking people if they wish they had? You need your head examined.

Oligonicella said...

When it comes to interpreting people, you are the diametric opposite of interpreting the law.

You'll vote Dem next time.

Dennis said...

We should know for certain if we shot an unarmed, defenseless OBL or was there proper cause for the double tap to the head. Was it a straight out assassination or not?

I think that McCain (and Bush for that matter, had we caught up with OBL earlier) would have captured OBL instead of killing him, or at least the option would have been placed on the table for the commandos in terms of guidlines. There is a chivalry thing active in the conservative mind.

So we have here an interesting irony: A Liberal Democrat who is ruthless and deadly in the clinches, and a Conservative Republican who is willing to fall on the sword for the sake of honor, or at least tolerate an ambiguous resolution of a situation in deference to civic process.

In Europe, I've heard references to the Chicago way in terms of Al Capone, a figure in history that is still alive in their minds. This is what is driving the war on terror at the moment, the Chicago style.

Little Towhee said...

You wrote:
"How did McCain lose me?

1. He did not understand economics, the most important issue.

2. He lost the ability to make the experience argument.

3. He never defined himself as a principled conservative.

4. Erratic and incoherent, he lacked sufficient mental capacity."

You do realize Obama's name can realistically be substituted for McCain regarding each of these statements.

Great, you feel a little more secure for your decision.

Personally, I blame people like you for the future my children are facing.

With this issue, Obama is the fortunate historical recipient of this "political gift". It was not by his luck, skill or ultimate resolve that bin Laden was taken down.

You must be financially secure. I know a few recently unemployed people who are kicking themselves in the arse for their votes for Obama.

Meade said...

Campaign within public financing limits......... eh


Get out of Iraq........... didn't, good


Close Gtmo............didn't, good


Turn back the Patriot Act...........didn't, good


End the electronic surveillance expanded under Bush...........didn't, good


Post bills on the internet before signing......eh

Delay signing bills for 72 hours........eh


Get congressional vote before starting new military interventions...........didn't, good


Get U.N. approval before committing U.S. military...........didn't, good

End Bush tax cuts...........didn't, good


Officially recognize the Armenian Genocide..........eh


Try foreign terrorism suspects in civilian courts...........didn't, good




* I'll get Osama in Pakistan if needed........did it, good

MadisonMan said...

That is what is most important.

I have to keep reminding myself that.

All this talk about whether or not the vote was the right vote. And people say Obama dithers! Is it a Law Prof thing?

Dust Bunny Queen said...


President Obama was literally pulled from a golf outing and escorted back to the White House to be informed of the mission. Upon his arrival there was a briefing held which included Bill Daley, John Brennan, and a high ranking member of the military. When Obama emerged from the briefing, he was described as looking “very confused and uncertain.” The president was then placed in the “situation room” where several of the players in this event had already been watching the operation unfold. Another interesting tidbit regarding this is that the Vice President was already “up to speed” on the operation. A source indicated they believe Hillary Clinton had personally made certain the Vice President was made aware of that day’s events before the president was. The now famous photo released shows the particulars of that of that room and its occupants. What that photo does not communicate directly is that the military personnel present in that room during the operation unfolding, deferred to either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates. The president’s role was minimal, including their acknowledging of his presence in the room.


True? Maybe. Maybe not. We really don't know what went on in that particular room. Maybe wiki-leaks will let us know, since they seem to have more information than anyone.

However, to try to self vindicate your vote from many years ago based on this type of stuff just fooling yourself in the face of other evidence regarding the incompetence of the person you voted for.

PatCA said...

So you wish you'd voted for him? Yes.

Wait...I don't understand who is asking or answering the question. Meade now wishes he voted for Obama?

DADvocate said...

So you wish you'd voted for him?

No. Obama's more harmful to the U.S. than the terrorists. His health care alone will eventually kill more people. The impact of his economic policies are worse than the economic impact of 9/11.

Plus, single issue voting, or evalutating voting, is stupid.

Robert said...

First president I voted for was Jimmy Carter. It was 1980, I was 18, had just signed up for Selective Service, and those around me convinced me that Ronnie Raygun was going to get met sent off to fight the Soviets and get me killed.

I bought into the lie, voted, and I was wrong for doing so.

I am a much better person for freely admitting my gullibility and irrational act in the voting booth.

You should try it some time, Professor.

edutcher said...

No, Little Zero has been a mess and it's going to take decades to undo all the damage, so I'm afraid the case hasn't been made.

And I don't believe for one second Junior would have had to "sleep on it" or let the Director of Central Intelligence make the decision for him.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

If McCain were president, I suspect we'd not only have the healthcare law, but we'd also have a Cap & Trade law.

Not health care, but "comprehensive immigration reform.

Fred4Pres said...

And Ann, you took McCain's comment out of context too.

I remember seeing that also, so the old habit of voting Demo was just too strong.

But sometimes, no force is stronger than coochie.

And Ann can do this thing with that weird little muscle and people hear Meade halfway across town.

PS I do think she's having us on.

Fen said...

Thank you DBQ

The president’s role was minimal, including their acknowledging of his presence in the room.

DHOTUS.

Fen said...

"What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound."

Maybe you should have cast a ballot for Leon Panetta?

michaele said...

Oh dear, whenever I see a clip from the townhall debate, I think of the youtube video McCain's Brain #4. It was brutal and the best of the series.
Even though many of us voted for McCain without enthusiasm, it was important that Obama didn't win in a total blow out. Having Obama as president has served the important function of giving fiscal conservatives a chance to cleanse themselves. We compromised our principles way too much during the George W. Bush years.

Fen said...

/DBQ's link is a must-read:

"The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such."

Meade said...

No President Obama -- no Tea Party

No President Obama -- no Sarah Palin, the Facebook reality tv star

No President Obama -- Scott Walker

Erik said...

Sorry, it's difficult to take this seriously. Obama had to be forced to do the right thing in this case, a case in which *no politician* would have done anything different. And somehow this justifies voting for him despite the complete mess he's made of everything else? Sorry, but that's just silly.

pbAndj said...

Are we going to have Panettaers?

Fine w/ me.

But, I'd like to switch back to the 'gate' suffix.

Panetta Gate.

DADvocate said...

Many of these were not decisions he made, but decisions forced upon him.

He forced them upon himself by running for and winning the presidency. He still had a choice.

Meade - all the "goods" you have would have been true for McCain. But, McCain most likely would have out performed Obama on domestic policy. However, we had lousy choices from both parties. Really lousy choices.

edutcher said...

michaele said...

Oh dear, whenever I see a clip from the townhall debate, I think of the youtube video McCain's Brain #4. It was brutal and the best of the series.
Even though many of us voted for McCain without enthusiasm, it was important that Obama didn't win in a total blow out.


For that you can thank Miss Sarah.

Carol_Herman said...

Two thrown down with one stone!

The MILITARY KILLS PEOPLE! It's a shame to turn them into doing anything else. Including to build toilets for savages.

UNFORTUNATELY, we've had TOO MANY LAWYERS! So, good for Obama! He divided out what the lawyers do poorly: Which is defend the nation!

As to Obama's chances of winning ... they remain high enough ... IF the GOP can't do better than the GOP you see roaming the halls of Congress!

So people vote! Shame there's no voices rising up among the pleebs ... to describe the elite GOP crap that runs for the top positions!

The CIA was a dead animal before this action took place!

Ah. At least there's TRUMP!

Chip Ahoy said...

… the popular opinion of America had diminished in Pakistan was because we were supporting a dictator, Musharraf, we had given him 10 billion dollars over 7 years and he had suspended civil liberties. We were not promoting democracy. These are the kinds of policies that end up undermining our ability to fight the war on terrorism and it will change when I am president.

The irony. It burns.

Every time I break my own rule and watch and listen to a clip of this man my opinion formed early is reinforced. I am convinced, and every single little tidbit concretizes that conviction, this man doesn't care the slightest now about what he said then and neither should I. You can believe whatever you wish and vote accordingly, but this clip causes repulsion all over again. The difference is now I know what then I only sensed.

Henry said...

If McCain had been elected we would likely have the exact same financial, military, and security leaders -- or their compatriots.

I don't think a McCain presidency would really have been all that different from Obama's. McCain may have pushed back on the Pelosi supermajority, but he may just as easily have compromised on healthcare and immigration. A slightly smaller stimulus and a healthcare bill with more loopholes would not be all that better than what we got. And, a McCain presidency would have subverted the tea party insurgency and squelched the energy that is Sarah Palin, making the hope of eventual fiscal sanity even more unlikely.

I commented several days ago about Obama's declaration that he would violate Pakistani borders to take out Bin Laden; you do have to give the man credit for that. Would McCain have done the same? I'm sure of it. He would have had the same intelligence and the same responsibility that caused Obama to keep Guantanamo open.

When you have a weak president, authority devolves to institutional players. I think McCain would have been like Obama.

Chip S. said...

OK, great. The guy's been a regular Winston Churchill in his relentless pursuit of OBL. Now it's Clement Attlee time, except to roll back the government rather than expand it.

Dody Jane said...

WOW, Meade. Just ... WOW.

Titus said...

Meade is going to be getting some tonight.

Fen said...

/more

"The president had been instructed by Jarrett to inform Mr., Panetta that he would have sole discretion to act against the Osama Bin Laden compound. Jarrett believed this would further delay Panetta from acting, as the responsibility for failure would then fall almost entirely on him. What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound.

Basically, the whole damn operation was already ready to go – including the specific team support Intel necessary to engage the enemy within hours of being given notice. Panetta then made plans to proceed with an on-ground assault. This information reached either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates first (likely via military contacts directly associated with the impending mission) who then informed the other"

I'll stop pulling snips. Still reading. But if this source can be confirmed, Obama will be bloodied.

Meade said...

oops... I meant,

No President Obama -- no Scott Walker

Carol_Herman said...

McCain was as inept as Bob Dole!

At least Bob Dole had to quit the senate to run! With Gigolo John we weren't as lucky!

Obama WON on his message.

What's your message? You're gonna pick some faker that the "other side's voters" will have orgasms over?

No wonder Donald Trump managed to make a dent in Obama's armor.

Glad the recent adventure to Pakistan did not end up the way it did for Jimmy Carter!

Will the story of how the "body walked up to the helicopter" ever come out? Was one of the helicopters disabled by Osama's round-the-clock "protective" force?

How come there wasn't a vault room in the "villa?" How come, back in 2008, Amanpour put the information out there ... and STUPID Gary Shandling ... high on drugs ... walked all over her fantastic piece of information.

(I wonder if the Israelis knew about this hide-away?) As Donald Rumsfeld once remarked ... this was hardly an "Unknown Unknown." But acting on it? Obama convinced everybody our military would be useless.

Instead? The new breeds of war ALL involve special OPS. Period. Forget your WW2 models.

Pastafarian said...

Sweet merciful Jesus. McCain actually said this, explicitly, during the debate:

"You don't say that out loud."

Do you not understand what he meant there? Does he have to be even more obvious than this? Because if he were, it would actually work counter to what he's trying to do here.

He's saying that you don't say that out loud and destabilize an already-teetering, at least nominally pro-western government while they have a nuclear Muslim tiger by the tail.

Unless you're Obama. Then you're oblivious and you don't give a fuck about anything but posturing and winning the debate.

You don't walk into a biker-bar and announce "I am carrying a loaded revolver right here. See it?" and wave it around like an idiot. That revolver doesn't come out until just before you use it.

I'm left with one of two possible conclusions: Either you're incapable of understanding what McCain meant here; or you're so capable of self-delusion that you can convince yourself that, had McCain been president last week and his security team told him "We know bin Laden is right here, in this house, and a SEAL team is ready to go in and get him" that McCain would have told them to stand down.

Yikes, Althouse.

Fen said...

BTW, who the hell is in charge of the Executive branch these days? Obama appears to just be a figurehead that must be dragged from the golf course to sign a kill order.

Methadras said...

Isn't hindsight awesome in how it dovetails with the way you think future history should work? Please, this one circumstance of Urkel getting Bin Laden does not a presidency nor a re-election make. Go ahead, bask in the glow of the rightness of your decision. He got him. Great. Now it's onto Urkel to create international and domestic policies that are wracking this country. He's taken a bad economic situation and had made it worse.

pbAndj said...

"oops... I meant,

No President Obama -- no Scott Walker"

I'm not sure that was unclear, Mr. Re elect Walker.

Chip S. said...

No President Obama -- no Scott Walker

Because the Wisconsin budget would have been balanced otherwise?

Rabel said...

AG Holder:
"The acts taken were "lawful, legitimate and appropriate in every way."
Isn't that the McCain position. Maintain a veneer of respect for Pakistani sovereignty while "doing what you have to do."
A follow through on the Obama position would mean a public acknowledgement that we violated their sovereignty and will do it again if we need to.

Pastafarian said...

Yeah, that's great, Meade.

No Obama, no Scott Walker.

You know what else? No Hitler, no Volkswagen. And that Passat with the turbo is one sweet ride.

Or maybe more to the point: No smallpox, no smallpox vaccine.

Little Towhee said...


"* I'll get Osama in Pakistan if needed........did it, good"

Meade, what if McCain had said he would do the same thing? (Which I expect McCain very well would have, and he would've handled it just as well if not better.)

Really, why do you feel better about voting for Obama, Ann? This is cockamamy and elementary reasoning to vote for someone. It implies that you did NOT believe he'd truly follow through with the bin Laden hunting in Pakistan, and now that he has, you seem delightfully surprised. Did you not think he would do this, and now you are excited that his word is "good"? Wow, are you excited about his word being "good" for all the other things he hopes to accomplish for his 'hope and change' America?

Scary.

I'm glad WE took Obama down. And when I say "we", I mean the taxpayers who funded this all the way to the boots on the ground with the weapons and know-how, and everybody inbetween.

I can't believe you're impressed to that degree. This was business, not a surprise party. Get serious.

John Althouse Cohen said...

McCain was clearly not just objecting to how Obama was talking about his plan. McCain said Obama "wants to invade Pakistan." That isn't a diagreement on rhetoric -- he was trying to put Obama's position in a bad light. That strongly suggests McCain actually opposed Obama's view on how to handle the situation.

I mean, you can assert that McCain obviously would have done the same thing, but where's the evidence of that? If McCain had been president he would have already committed himself to the view that the way Obama wanted to handle the situation would amount to an invasion of Pakistan.

McCain was subscribing to the widespread view among conservatives at the time that Obama's position on what to do (not just how to talk about it) was insane. Sean Hannity, for instance, was vocal in opposing Obama's policy.

But apparently I'm not supposed to take McCain, Hannity, and their ilk seriously because anyone would have done what Obama did? That's a convenient way to deny Obama any credit. Do you deny Bush any credit for his captures and killings of terrorists because anyone would have done the same thing?

If someone other than Obama were president and had done what Obama did, would the commenters here be saying: "Obama would have done the same thing"? I don't think so.

You can say it was the obvious move. Hindsight is 20/20. It's obvious because you know it succeeded. But the idea that this wasn't an accomplishment of Obama's, or that we know McCain or anyone else would have done the same thing, is blatantly partisan.

If you want to be blatantly partisan, fine, but admit that that's what you're doing. My mom and stepdad are not blatantly partisan -- they'll support Democrats or Republicans based on who the specific candidates are. The disagreement with them in this thread is just a repetition of the fact that there are a lot of commenters on this blog who consistently vote Republican and want other people to consistently vote Republican, which is not exactly breaking news.

Carol_Herman said...

So, if you were looking ahead to November 2012 ... who better than Panetta, now, to kick Biden off the ticket?

To have a fire ... you have to pile stuff up ... that you hope to ignite.

And, yes. Obama is in campaign mode.

Titus said...

This place is going to be on fire because of this post.

Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride-that is such a gay quote BTW.

Peano said...

Still struggling to resolve that inner conflict. The rationalization du jour is, "MEADE says I did right!"

pbAndj said...

I hope Meade cleared his schedule.

A lot of incoming.

And, I'd guess there's plenty more to come.

MayBee said...

No President Obama -- no Tea Party

If McCain turned out to be a profligate spender, there still would have been a Tea Party.

No President Obama- no DoJ investigation of CIA interrogators who gathered this information

No President Obama - no charges pressed against Navy SEALS who were accused of punching a detainee in the mouth

Scott Walker is up to you all, in Wisconsin. I don't know how a President McCain would have made it so you could continue to afford to lavish the unions with benefits.

kathleen said...

You're WAY more thoughtful and informed than any of us. You are such a nuanced thinker -- you are the most subtle of them all. You win, Ann! You win! Your medal will arrive in the mail shortly!

Chip Ahoy said...

I once heard a discussion about what makes CEOs worth their million-dollar salaries. The conclusion was that by their acumen, the result of their experience, they possess an ability to make important decisions like *snap* that.

Why did Obama have to sleep on this decision to green-light the operation? Why wasn't the conclusion instantaneous? Here is the previously named 3:00 AM call. A wooden spoon could have decided that one in an instant in its sleep, but Obama had to mull it over. Why? To achingly explore the many ways the decision could affect him, most likely. I draw that conclusion reluctantly after observing him for four years, I'm counting the year of campaigning prior to the last election.

Carol_Herman said...

It was impossible for McCain to win! He never got his numbers high enough!

Now. Whom do you have that isn't lame? Whom do you actually have that can garner more than the religious zealots as your "guarantee?"

TMink said...

I disagree with you Meade, but I have always appreciated you as a thoughtful, honest person, and that continues. Heck, it is enhanced as I know you will get some gried for this, but not from me. Not today.

Rock on Meadster.

Trey

MayBee said...

That isn't a diagreement on rhetoric -- he was trying to put Obama's position in a bad light.

OMG! McCain wanted to bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran.

McCains said he didn't care if we were at war with Iraq for 100 years!

I wish I would have voted for Obama!

Sixty Grit said...

Obama is awesome!

Shouting Thomas said...

Killing bin Laden is a definite win for Obama.

Now, if he could just dump the green energy fantasies and stop sabotaging domestic oil and gas production, I could almost get behind voting for him.

Almost.

The devotion to race and sex quotas is a problem, as is the unrestrained spending.

Was McCain a better choice? I wasn't very excited about either choice.

Titus said...

I believe this post was a calculated, well thought out, widely discussed, which is going to incite.

Well done the divine Miss Althouse.

TMink said...

McCain would just have been Obama lite. The good thing is, he would not have spent so much money and he would not have spent so much time appologizing for America and looking like a fool. But the tea party would not have taken over American politics so readily. So all in all, I would call it a draw.

But I could never vote for Obama because of his socialist world view. Nevah!

Trey

Fred4Pres said...

You can argue that Barack Obama's election allowed things like Scott Walker and the Tea Party to florish. I would argue those trends would have happened anyway, even if McCain won.

John McCain would not have done cap and trade (given the economy) and would definitely not supported the health care plan. He might have done something on immgration (which I would not have cared for). With all McCain's faults, he would not have allowed the out of control spending that happened.

The problem here is this increase in spending is mind boggling bad. History will show this to be the worse possible thing the government could have done. Now if we conservatives in 2012, perhaps (and that is not certain) we can start reversing that. But what if Obama wins and the health care legislation becomes ingrained into the fabric of the entitlement net?

This situation is pretty dire.

Phil 3:14 said...

As an aside the more unwanted details I read about the assassination of OBL the more I'm reminded of the movie The Man who Shot Liberty Valence

Trooper York said...

I think everyone is misinterperting what Meade meant. It was the right move for the liberal law professor who wanted to assuage her white liberal guilt by voting for an "articulate" minority candidate. It was the right move for her.

Not for anyone else.

Ken said...

Oh please. You abandoned "cruel neutrality" before you announced it.

Fred4Pres said...

Titus said...
I believe this post was a calculated, well thought out, widely discussed, which is going to incite.

Well done the divine Miss Althouse.

5/4/11 11:11 AM



Of course it was. And Meade is definitely getting some.

Pastafarian said...

The two of you, Meade and Althouse, do realize, don't you, that we're living in the death throes of our economy?

That, at this point, it's possible that no amount of correction can get us out of the debt spiral initiated by the extra $2 trillion per year in spending ramrodded through by the guy for whom Althouse voted?

Government entitlements now exceed tax revenue; and no one will give up their entitlements. Interest on the national debt will become a bigger and bigger percentage of tax revenue, until it's all we can do but pay the interest, and then we won't even be able to do that.

Hey, but your guy did manage to make a decision that anyone else in his position would also have made. So there's that.

Robert said...

@ Althouse's boy:

"If someone other than Obama were president and had done what Obama did, would the commenters here be saying: "Obama would have done the same thing"? I don't think so."

For this commenter it was a huge relief that Obama did. I truly did not believe he would make this decision. Watching his attorney general squirm to avoid acknowledging the existence of radical Islam while being questioned by Congress is a big reason why I did not believe him capable of making a decision in the best interest of this country.

kathleen said...

Blatantly partisan...that's kind of like being racist, right? It's always really really bad. But incoherence is subtle, and subtle is always good.

Michael K said...

DBQ, that is a very interesting link. Now, we can watch to see what Jarrett does.

I do agree that we would not have the tea party if not for Obama but burning down the house to get rid of the rats is not a good idea, either.

It did stimulate my interest in the history of the Depression. The similarities are amazing.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride-that is such a gay quote BTW.

Only if you say it like Bette Davis and sashay out of the room at the same time.

:-P

jr565 said...

Looking back over Althouse's discussion of why she voted for Mccain she keeps coming back to the idea that Mccain didn't adequately defend conservatism.

She wrote:
Is there some sort of idea that if you think McCain is too liberal, you still have to vote for him, because if he's too liberal, then Obama is really too liberal? I don't buy that. Better a principled, coherent liberal whose liberal choices will, if they don't go well, be blamed on liberals than an erratic, incoherent liberal whose liberal choices will be blamed on the party that ought to get its conservative act together.
She faults conservatives for not being conservative enough, yet when Obama changes stance after stance to match that of Bush's in the war on terror, and uses the same policies that he and dems once demonized republicans for using that's an example of Obama's pragrmatism. Well why wouldn't Mccain's reaching across the aisle also be an example of pragmatism?
There are two standards for Althouse. Mccain must be judged for not being conservative enough, and all his faults must be stressed (he looks old, he sounds incoherent) yet Obama doesn't really have to defend liberal principles merely come across as young and articulate.
When Obama wrecks the economy and still hasn't brought out any substantial job growth three years into his presidency, that is not enough to invalidate Ann's vote for him. And when he turns his back on his so called principle stances (ie deciding to extend Bush's tax cuts, not close Guantanamo etc.) why then that's the obama she always knew she was voting for (what, a liar?). ANd of course when he does stand up for lib principles and drives our economy into the ditch, well the democrats needed to own the problems and could no longer blame the problems on republicans, so this was all part of her voting strategy.
It sounds like a have your cake and eat it too strategy. If things go well for Obama then that justified her vote for Obama, and if things go bad for Obama then that justifies her vote for Obama.

And she complains that Mccain didn't stand for his conservative principles. What principle is Ann standing for?

Carol_Herman said...

I remember Harry Truman, following the 1948 presidential election, holding up the newspaper with the headline DEWEY WON.

Then, to clear his way to 1952, Harry Truman destroyed General Douglas MacArthur.

It seemed at the time Americans were driving past this scene, as if WW2 was in their rear view mirrors.

Then came 1952. And, Eisenhower stepped forward. (He was actually offered the democrapic nomination as well.) Truman ran home, rather than running and losing. He "retired."

Eisenhower said he'd prefer to be the GOP candidate, because after all the ALLIED shenanigans he dealt with during WW2, he no longer wanted a gloved hand up his ass.

By the way, since Obama could not trust Pakistan on this ... How does it bode for Turkey?

Isn't Obama's "map" somewhat under new construction?

Fen said...

If someone other than Obama were president and had done what Obama did,

Recent reports are indicating that Obama didn't do this:

the President of the United States was not informed of the engagement order – it did not originate from him

edutcher said...

Carol_Herman said...

Obama WON on his message.

No, he won because he had created a cult around him.

So, if you were looking ahead to November 2012 ... who better than Panetta, now, to kick Biden off the ticket?

Well, it may come down to that. This may be all Zero has - and that's if all the backtracking and revelations about the decision don't sink it.

It was impossible for McCain to win! He never got his numbers high enough!

No, he was ahead before the market crash in September.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

@ Maybee

Unless I am not getting your post as sarcasm, perhaps you should make some inquiries about what McCain ACTUALLY said before you post this kind of drivel

"McCains said he didn't care if we were at war with Iraq for 100 years!"


The Facts
Take a look at what McCain actually said in Derry, N.H., back in January. Cutting off a questioner who talked about the Bush administration's willingness to keep troops in Iraq for 50 years, McCain said "Make it a hundred." He then mentioned that U.S. troops had been in Germany for 60 years and in Korea for 50 years, and added, "That's fine with me as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed."


This was one of McCain's biggest failings as a Candidate. He was completely unable to articulate his message and thoughts. Everything came out muddled and sounded confused.

He wasn't saying we need to have a 100 year war, however, if it required an extended military presence in Iraq to keep the 'peace', like we have done in other parts of the world for over 60 years, then that is what will be done.....if necessary.

Chip S. said...

@JAC, It doesn't require intense partisanship to dissent from the view that the snuffing of OBL should be the overriding point on which to evaluate any set of presidential candidates, let alone an entire presidency.

Nobody knows exactly what would have happened under a McCain presidency, in part because no one knows for sure how he would have reacted to the likely intense partisanship of the Congress he'd have faced. But here's what we do know: McCain's health-insurance-reform plan was a lot like Paul Ryan's plan. McCain's chief economic adviser during his campaign has been squarely on the record saying that the current and future federal deficits are not stimuli, but dire threats to our economic future. So anyone who disagrees strongly with the Obama Administration about those two issues can quite justly feel that they are vastly more important factors than the likely difference between Obama and McCain on dealing with OBL.

Anyone who makes OBL the primary basis for evaluating Obama ought not be surprised when people start looking closely at Obama's plausibly differential credit for taking him out. And I say that as someone who is willing to give the guy some credit on this score.

MayBee said...

DBQ- it was absolutely sarcasm. Well, sort of. Candidate Obama actually made those accusations against McCain.

I was trying to contrast JAC's point about McCain's rhetoric and the way he was using it against Obama. Someone else made a wonderful point that both candidates in that video were trying to play against type. The characterizations Obama had made about McCain had stung.

SteveR said...

Obama said it to get elected, he wasn't going to lose any votes by saying it and obviously picked up some. No lose position.

I don't think anyone in his position would not have acted. He gets credit as CIC, but this hardly justifies the vote of those hoping he would be something he is not now or never has been.

Jay said...

"What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound."


Oh no, don't tell silly little jeremy. His head may explode...

MayBee said...

This was one of McCain's biggest failings as a Candidate. He was completely unable to articulate his message and thoughts. Everything came out muddled and sounded confused.

And actually, DBQ, I think McCain articulated this message quite well. It was willfully misrepresented by his opponent, who got away with it because he was so intellectual.

Jay said...

Now, that I think has to be our policy, because they are threatening to kill more Americans,"

So why then did it take Obama 16 hours to make the decision???

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The disagreement with them in this thread is just a repetition of the fact that there are a lot of commenters on this blog who consistently vote Republican and want other people to consistently vote Republican

And you know my (our) voting habits....how?

Or are you being blatantly partisan in your assumptions?

Jay said...

Oh man, this is tremendous:

“Senior Pakistani security officials said Osama bin Laden’s daughter had confirmed her father was captured alive and shot dead by the US Special Forces during the first few minutes of the operation carried out at the huge compound in Bilal Town, Abbottabad. . . . The daughter has reportedly told her Pakistani investigators that the US forces captured her father alive but shot him dead in front of family members.”

I love watching the left cheer Obama's "bravery" on...

Pastafarian said...

Jay, Jay, Jay. Obama spent those 16 hours going over every detail of the operation meticulously. It just needed a few tweaks here and there by a master tactician. Indeed, he even spent some of that time giving the SEALs a little more training. I believe it was in the art of swift and silent death-dealing.

Alex said...

So the CIA did waterboard in Gitmo under Obama's approval. This totally implodes the meme that he took out OBL with no torture. That was the linchpin of it all.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

And actually, DBQ, I think McCain articulated this message quite well. It was willfully misrepresented by his opponent, who got away with it because he was so intellectual.

Perhaps it is just me, being so absolutely sick of the pussy footing political speech that we get. Wherein the candiate or elected official just will NOT answer a question with a straight answer.

In the latest, shutting down the government, with very few exeptions when asked repeatedly and from different angles: "Would you support a government shut down to get your budget bill passed?" the mealy mouth politican would tap dance all over the place. Or in the case of Obama just flat out tell lies.

Meanwhile, I'm yelling at the television.....Say Yes (God damnit) .....just SAY YES and then move on to the next question. SAY IT!!!!

McCain always seemed to be thinking somehow, if he was ever so nice, bland and noncommittal, we would all just love him to be President.

(This is why I really laughed at the McCain's Brain series)

Fred4Pres said...

Alex said...
So the CIA did waterboard in Gitmo under Obama's approval. This totally implodes the meme that he took out OBL with no torture. That was the linchpin of it all.

5/4/11 11:39 AM



Proof of that would cause weeping and knashing of teeth in some circles. But do you have a link suggesting that?

Jay said...

Pastafarian said...
Jay, Jay, Jay. Obama spent those 16 hours going over every detail of the operation meticulously. It just needed a few tweaks here and there by a master tactician.


Heh. Exactly!

Christopher in MA said...

Good lord. Talk about the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Believe me, I take a back seat to no one in my absolute, burning loathing of Little Black Jesus, but I salute what he did in re OBL. But honestly, Althouse, this one act suddenly rockets a dissembling, economically-illiterate, distributionist fool to Mount Rushmore proportions for you? As if the utter disaster of the stimulus, energy-blocking, skyrocketing staples prices and our near-certain monetary collapse mean nothing?

I'm beginning to think Ace's nickname of "President Makes A Poopy" is apt, watching so many otherwise sensible people praise Urkel for doing what any American president worthy of the name would have done.

Paul said...

Aw just forget the unemployment... forget the debt... forget the $5 gas... forget inflation... forget...

And just keep in mind OBAMA went into the tunnels and killed Bin Laden! Yea right Ann. Sure.

And I hear he 'slept on it' for 16 hrs before deciding to attack the compound.

Obama is still Jimmy Carter on steroids. See Carter had a few good moments to (the peace treaty with Israel and Egypt), but he just had fiasco after fiasco after fiasco...

Yes vote for Obama and keep saying that to yourself when you fill up your car next time, if you can afford it.

Chip S. said...

"In a CNN appearance, Former CIA director Michael Hayden said the detainees the administration said provided information on Osama bin Laden’s couriers were at one of the CIA’s locations that allowed enhanced interrogation techniques, not at Guantanamo Bay."

--Daily Caller

Ann Althouse said...

"Six years ago, I marched in the May Day Parade. I bought a Daily Worker subscription. But I never read it, not one word. Right from the mailbox to the garbage can. I was only trying to get laid. This communist girl, she had a big ass..."

Zero Mostel in "The Front."

EnigmatiCore said...

Do you really think McCain wouldn't have done this?

Do you really want to hear the answer to that?

MayBee said...

McCain always seemed to be thinking somehow, if he was ever so nice, bland and noncommittal, we would all just love him to be President.

I agree with that in general.
I also think the last election was exceptional, because every harsh or even not nice utterance was seen as a personal offense against Obama. Did you not say forcefully enough you know Obama to be a devout Christian? Offensive! Did you say Senator Obama was willing to lose the Iraq war for political reasons? Offensive!
Sarah Palin said Obama palled around with the terrorist Bill Ayers? Offensive!
Make fun of Obama for being a community organizer? Offensive! Jesus was a community organizer!
McCain was too mealy mouthed and got his words used against him. Palin was too straightforward and got her words used against her.

It was really a no-win situation.
But now one position Obama took once is just gold.

Chip S. said...

Are you sure that quote's from Zero and not O?

windbag said...

@Trooper

voting for an "articulate" minority

...and clean..

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

...didn't, good

...didn't, good

...didn't, good


All of those things that Obama said he would do but didn't, is because the sane world around him wouldn't let him do them!

It's not that Obama didn't do these things, it's because HE COULDN'T do those things that makes the difference.

MayBee said...

We left Bin Laden's wife with Pakistan.

What does that say?

Maguro said...

McCain was too mealy mouthed and got his words used against him.

McCain cared far more about maintaining his media image as one of the "few decent Republicans"than he did about winning the election.

windbag said...

@Meade

Dude, stop digging, please. Put the shovel down and step away. So, Obama is some Forrest Gump, who unwittingly advances civilization by his incompetence and naivete?

Palladian said...

How Althouse lost us...

EnigmatiCore said...

It was willfully misrepresented by his opponent, who got away with it because he was so intellectual.

We had a candidate from the party often associated with weakness in foreign policy, directly asserting that he would do what it takes. For the electorate, it was a way of distancing himself from his own party's weakness.

McCain said, "you don't do that." Why not? Leaders would either believe him, which would be a deterrent, or would dismiss it as bluster, or would not know what to think. This is not much different than the unstated ambiguity of not saying anything.

What was going to happen? By him telling Pakistan (in a debate) that if they harbored Bin Laden we'd go in anyway, were they suddenly going to say "well, the US is not a great ally" and work counter to us? Doubtful. And if so, then it worked as flypaper.

By stating he would do it, and then doing it, I bet any veiled or direct threats Obama makes going forward will be heeded quite a bit more.

Palladian said...

The Meadehouse plan for fixing America's problems:

1. Elect incompetent fuck-up
2.
3. Profit!

Marshal said...

For all of Obama's alleged wonderfulness on the WOT, what one principle fits all his decisions? I suggest this:

"I will do whatever it takes to prevent any foreign policy matter from distracting from my core mission of redistributing income and power in American domestic politics."

chickelit said...

Meade wishes he'd voted for Obama?

Duly noted.

Trooper York said...

Palladian said...
How Althouse lost us...

Ouch. That one is gonna leave a mark.

Palladian said...

It's my cruel neutrality, Trooper.

Almost Ali said...

Liberals bring a heavy emotional component to everything, which is why $7-Starbucks survives.

But even I was forced into a similar political fantasy, that is, voting for Sarah Palin in the hope John McCain would drop dead on inauguration day.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping Donald Trump is just keeping his powder dry - until Obama is back into his full-fuck-up mode.

pm317 said...

wow, how many times can you rationalize your vote? The real election was the Dem primary. With Hillary Clinton as president, you would by now have already had bin Laden (even now she was a driving force behind this raid), Israel-Palestine peace thingy, a good something on the economy, and on and on..

Also what he said in that debate was a no brainer -- it was a crowd pleaser and he was all about and only about that than the dull (perhaps intellectually honest) McCain.

Almost Ali said...

Meade wishes he'd voted for Obama?

Love makes people do strange things.

tim maguire said...

Ok, so before I pass judgment on Meade's moment of clarity, I need to know one thing: have you been withholding sex recently?

Patrick said...

I do find it hilarious that, for all of the grief Prof. Althouse gets from the left, her one confirmed switch involves turning Meade from a McAin voter to a "wish I'd voted Obama" voter! Take that, Alpha!

Marshal said...

"With Hillary Clinton as president, you would by now have already had bin Laden (even now she was a driving force behind this raid), Israel-Palestine peace thingy, a good something on the economy, and on and on."

Wrong on two of three. I'd be particularly interested in hearing how Clinton would have caused an Israeli-Palestinian peace. I need a laugh.

Rumpletweezer said...

How could anyone have voted for Obama in view of the fact that, if bin Laden were captured or killed, there'd be no end to the people saying "Obama" when they really meant "Osama"? Weren't you guys even thinking?

garage mahal said...

Brush it off Meade. These bitter clingers are beyond hope.

John M Auston said...

I'm going with, as a previous commenter mentioned, the 'dumped chick syndrome'.

Joe said...

I was going to give Obama kudos for telling Pakiston to fuck off, but the I read about the sleeping on it part (sorry, been busy with other stuff. From one article "Barack Obama kept military commanders hanging by declaring he would ‘sleep on it’ before taking 16 hours to give the go-ahead to raid Bin Laden’s compound."

That is fucking irresponsible. He is lucky that bin Laden became complacent.

Terrye said...

No. I do not wish I had voted for Barack Obama...and I think that all this stuff about how he would go into Pakistan and get OBL blah blah blah...well, who did not say that? Do you honestly think that McCain would not have sent in the Seals? Obama made the only decision he really could make and somehow or other we are supposed to act as if he is the only man in the world who could or would have gotten Osama. Nonsense, if his policies as a candidate had been followed, we would not have even found Osama.

The truth is he acted more like Bush in his third term than Obama in his first...that is why and how this happened.

roesch-voltaire said...

Meade thanks for the list as it clearly shows Obama is not the socialist many claim, but some sort of a more pragmatic Bush. Is he responsible for four dollar gas and the high unemployment--eh I would add, but he did help those with pre-existening conditions get coverage-- did it-good.

Trooper York said...

Well I just hope that now that Meade has gone over to the dark side the douchenozzles like Jay Retread, AlphaLiberal and all the rest will stop picking on him.

The poor guy has it bad enough having to lie in dog poop to photo rosebuds. Jeeez.

Lionheart said...

Palladian wins the thread with "How Althouse lost us". Hell, he wins all the future threads Althouse will churn out to justify her oh so tortured reasoning for voting for BHO. Is it all just about the numbers of comments now?

Barbara said...

And so I take my leave of this site, all the admiration for you and Meade that built during your coverage of recent events at your State Capitol, now taken from me by your question, your husband's response. Nothing has been learned. My sadness is profound.

Skay said...

Forced horrendous healthcare bill on all of us--well--- exceot a few thousand of his closest friends. That's how they do it in Chicago.

His spending of taxpayer money is
unforgivable. It's all about votes.

The military and the CIA were have been working on this for years. McCain would have gone after him also.
It's only "gutsy" because he is a
leftist Democrat.

The SEALS were the gutsy ones.


Very disappointing.

Phil 3:14 said...

Another movie reference.

Professor;
Your yearning for the Obama of the 2008 election reminds me of Francesca Johnson (played by Meryl Streep) of Bridges of Madison County yearning for the younger, vigorous and romantic photographer (played by Clint Eastwood) as opposed to the older, staid (and soon to be dying) husband.

Yearning clip here.

chickelit said...

Barbara said: And so I take my leave of this site

Please flounce back soon-we hardly knew ye! :)

OT, I really think Althouse blew her analysis of "The Birds". Hitchcock never withheld shocking, graphic eye-gouging violence in that movie--he may have just protected a starlet's image.

murgatroyd666 said...

Althouse, there were people who continued to believe Marshall Applewhite's story about the alien spacecraft behind the comet even after the Heaven's Gate suicides, and did their best to rationalize being True Believers ... even to the point of later committing suicide to join the rest of the group.

With some people, the governing principle is that the bigger the mistake, the harder it is to admit being wrong.

bagoh20 said...

Meade,

The point of my list which you address was not that he made the right decisions (which frankly were the only reasonable options). It's that he lied about them all, which goes to the idea of why would what he said in the campaign inform anyone to believe him enough to vote for him based on it. Unless Ann is arguing that she knew exactly which promises he would keep or not. I'm skeptical.

Marshal said...

"roesch-voltaire said...

Meade thanks for the list as it clearly shows Obama is not the socialist many claim, but some sort of a more pragmatic Bush."

Funny how leftists claim everything supports their pet worldview. Only one item Meade listed could even tangentially be considered anti-socialist. But let's face it, if the left couldn't pretend light during daytime proved their ideas work they would have no evidence at all.

Leftism is so divorced from reality they've effectively constructed an alternate universe where their ideas work, for convenience we can call this FantasyLand. This explains why controlling the message is so critical. Even a cursory examination of their ideas causes outright laughter.

Ren said...

I will say this--I bet McCain wouldn't let Meade illegally park in the handicap parking spot at the law school. No, only under Obama could that happen.

Meade--that spot is for people who are disabled. You may have some mental issues, but that doesn't entitle you to park in the spot.

bagoh20 said...

"Althouse, there were people who continued to believe Marshall Applewhite's story about the alien spacecraft behind the comet even after the Heaven's Gate suicides"

OK Meadehouse, I want you both to step away from the vodka and phenobarbital, take off the Nike sneakers and make some coffee. We're gonna get through this together.

Valentine Smith said...

I'm beginning to fell pity for the "Little O." That picture of the sit-com room says it all, I'm afraid. He's cowering at the table, looking like the little boy who's daddy disappeared. He does not want to be there. But he's trapped. And, he can't not run in 2012. The weight of history has turned his shoulders into a wire hangar holding my old man's 20 lb topcoat. Ooops, that's it on the floor of the closet.

The wild-eyed hatred of Bush coerced me into defending him in the face of the aboriginal grunts of the left. Now, I am afraid we are witnessing Independents grasping at slippery vines in hopes of propelling themselves out of the chasm we are relentlessly falling into. Justification is an ugly, ugly sight.

It's pure fantasy, folks. Hubris, the complete failure to recognize personal limitations, has always been the souce of tragedy. enestWe are doomed unless O gets a glimpse of who he actually is.

SPImmortal said...

I'm glad McCain didn't win, because then a lot of destructive policy like the Dream Act would be law and have a Republican stamp on it.

That's not the same thing as wishing I'd voted for Obama though. After seeing how he's behaved, especially with the looming spending and entitlement crises just over the horizon, I will vote for whomever runs against him.

Roger J. said...

Not too much to add to this thread--the good professor continues to twist herself in knots about her voting decision and somehow feels the necessity to keep justifying/rationalizing it.

Reminds of the old happy days show where the fonz had to to admit he was wrong and just couldnt bring himself to say the word "wrong."

Look Professor--you made a decision--no one will argue with you on that; so why the continued need to rationalize it? let it go. You are starting to look like the obama white house in dithering.

traditionalguy said...

What a cool Hand Luke leader we have. But again he is also leading us stealthily to accidentally wake up in 2013 as socialist serfs in a disarmed province of North America. His expert sneaky ways only make him a far bigger enemy of America than Osama ever dreamed of being. Why does Obama the cool sneaky leader craft oil drilling and coal mining and gas extraction permitoreums awaiting a EPA fiat criminalizing those energy sources? It ain't because the fast cooling globe is getting warmer. It is to create the legal framework for a new currency issued by the UN/IMF Governance that replaces the dollars that Obama has executed and buried at sea like he did Osama's corpse.

Jason said...

I'm proud of Obama's decision to pull the trigger on this intelligence like I'm proud of grandpa for finishing his oatmeal.

Sure, it's a good thing. But you have to limit your expectations wth some people.

Falze said...

No President Obama -- no Tea Party

No President Obama -- no Sarah Palin, the Facebook reality tv star

No President Obama -- no Scott Walker


We had to burn the village/country to save it? Gotcha.

Jay Retread said...

Ann thinks her Althouse Hillbillies are getting a little too lethargic. So, she is getting out on her porch and giving you'll a big poke with her stick.

"Come on you hillbillies, I want to see you JUMP!"

Her Jethro is happy to be her sidekick in this sitcom of a blog.

Alex said...

We had to burn the village/country to save it? Gotcha.

Well, things would be infinitely worse with President McCain. Imagine he already died in office, and we'd have President Palin, god forbid. That would have been the permanent end of the GOP. As things stand now, we have a fighting chance. Even Obama winning re-election isn't the end of the world provided we block any left-wing SCOTUS nominations.

Boeing vs NLRB is gonna be a big one.

chickelit said...

RogerJ wrote: so why the continued need to rationalize it? let it go.

I never tire of replaying this old T-man favorite: link

chickelit said...

wv = "chictist" LOLOL!

Jay Retread said...

The most distinguishing thing about Ann is that she does not really subscribe to any set principles (besides herself of course) and does not really have anything to offer but surface analysis. For her it is just about who is "winning!". Basically, Ann's "intellect" is American Idol.

You Althouse Hillbillies are just an easy audience for her.

Freeman Hunt said...

Obama's domestic policies will destroy the country if they are not reversed.

Killing Osama, while great, does not change that.

Jay Retread said...

On most days Ann is happy to fill the conservative trough will the regular slop. But every now and them she likes to get you all wild up to show you who is the Boss Hog around here.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)






*WOW* Two homophonic names on this blog, seem to be small pathetic voices calling, “Look at me, Look at me. Give ME the attention I deserve.” Really quite sad.

Matt said...

Joe
That is fucking irresponsible. He is lucky that bin Laden became complacent.

You are being absurd and rather harsh. Bin Laden had been there for 5 or 6 years. He wasn't going anywhere in the next 16 hours.

Obama completely did the right thing. He had to weigh the options as to whether our military should drop a bomb or invade. I hope you realise that invading is pretty risky. Would you be able to make a quick [easy] decision if you knew the lives of our military could be at stake.

I'm guess no. But you talk a tough game - like too many couch conservatives.

What's more the operation worked. So why are you bitching? Oh, right, you hate Obama.

Jay Retread said...

I can promise you that Ann views you guys as big floppy ear hounds and every day gets a big laugh watching her stupid mutts chasing their tails.

So, keep yapping on Annie's Farm you dumb dogs. She needs her kicks.

chickelit said...

But every now and them she likes to get you all wild up to show you who is the Boss Hog around here.

I'm not surprised about Althouse's continued stance here--it's Meade's defecation to the Left which is the shocker.

Marinska said...

Meade's change of heart is really, well, disheartening. Can't believe Obama's nearly constant lying, race-baiting, and anti-Israel stance sit comfortably with him. Or are they just not on his radar?

Roger J. said...

Jay Retread--point of order. I am a Florida cracker, not some hill billy--there are distinctions--for one, both our legs are the same length--hillbilly legs are of different length to allow them to run along ridges.

Up your game, son--

Jay Retread said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay Retread said...

"I'm not surprised about Althouse's continued stance here--it's Meade's defecation to the Left which is the shocker."

What do you expect Jethro to do? Stand up and start singing "I ain't gonna work on Annie's farm no more"?

chickelit said...

What do you expect Jethro to do? Stand up and start singing "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more"?

I don't think my parents ever voted for the same man for President. I don't know that for sure, but I'm pretty sure.

wv: "liblewa" v colloq. Used as in "hey, that liblewa chance!"

RuyDiaz said...

I quote Freeman, but I could have quoted a bunch of other posters before her:

Obama's domestic policies will destroy the country if they are not reversed.

Killing Osama, while great, does not change that.


The professor is using one decision from Mr. Obama to justify her vote. ONE decision. It is self-evidently true that to proceed that way is madness.

Look, the CIA found bin Laden. It found him during Obama's presidency, so it was up to him to make the decision, not up to Bush or up to McCain.

In the end, you simply cannot know a counterfactual, so speculation will remain speculation... but, really? You see this as a validation of your vote? As a major difference? Mind-boggling indeed.

Roger J. said...

I'm guessing Jay retread has a blog that isnt doing all that well--probably some sort of blog envy thing going on here. The name of HD House ring a bell?

chickelit said...

What do you expect Jethro to do? Stand up and start singing "I ain't gonna work on Annie's farm no more"?

I'll be blunt: a melded Meadhouse mind is a step towards meadeocracy.

Matt said...

Marinska
Can't believe Obama's nearly constant lying, race-baiting, and anti-Israel stance...

You always make up facts to suit your own world view? None of what you said here is remotely true. And you know it.

Jay Retread said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jay Retread said...

Meade is a house hillbilly. The rest of you are porch hillbillies.

When you are allowed in the house you have to agree with the owner of the house and say "yes, madam!" with a shit eating grin on your face.

Rick67 said...

I did not vote for Obama and still cannot understand or sympathize with those who voted "for" Obama because they were voting *against* McCain.

That having been said...

I thought Obama crushed McCain in the 2nd debate. Partly because McCain came across as silly and unfocused.

Roger J. said...

Hmmm--so Jay Retread--does your analogy apply to the african american popultion of the united states?

Fred4Pres said...

Freeman Hunt said...
Obama's domestic policies will destroy the country if they are not reversed.

Killing Osama, while great, does not change that.

5/4/11 3:01 PM



What is sad is Ann does not get that. Things really need to change and change quickly or we are really in bad shape.

Jay said...

So, the left criticized Bush for the 10 minutes he read the book to the children when the 9/11 attacks occurred, yet I haven't heard much from them about Obama dithering for 16 hours?

Why?

Oh, and here is a story about those kids who Bush was reading to:

"I don't think anyone could have handled it better. What would it have served if [Bush] had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?"

I look forward to the Michael Moore criticisms of Obama on this...

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