May 26, 2011

"Barack Obama was probably not aware that he was doing anything unusual when making a toast 'to the Queen' and then continuing with a short speech."

BBC explains:
According to protocol, however, he should have stopped after the toast.

The band, taking its cue from the word Queen, struck up with the national anthem leaving the president struggling to make himself heard.

What happens when the Queen is toasted is all part of protocol, an elaborate set of customs and rules that govern interactions with the British royal family....

[I]t stems from a time when monarchs were accorded an almost divine status and had to be treated accordingly....
Whatever the original or the details, the President intended and wanted to follow the protocol, and somebody on his staff did him a grave disservice by not making absolutely certain he was getting it right. 

123 comments:

BigFire said...

Protocol? The CHOSEN ONE is above such local superstition. And then there's his hatred of all things English.

Curious George said...

"Whatever the original or the details, the President intended and wanted to follow the protocol, and somebody on his staff did him a grave disservice by not making absolutely certain he was getting it right"

That's pure speculation, not the statement of fact as written. Even the BBC said "probably". But for all we know he was given proper protocol, and just needs to get his head out of his Obama.

edutcher said...

Not too hard to ask, "What's protocol here?".

He doesn't give a damn and before, he wanted to show his lordly contempt; now his combination of ignorance and arrogance is starting to catch up to him.

That the Limeys are trying to make excuses shows who the class act is.

ndspinelli said...

I think the press treats our prez like a special needs person. Of course, if this happened to Bush it would be the lead story w/ the stale "dumb Bush" template. But, Obama handled this w/ grace. He didn't need the paternalistic press covering for him in this instance; although he loves it most the time.

Original Mike said...

"...somebody on his staff did him a grave disservice by not making absolutely certain he was getting it right."

Maybe, but the fact that he didn't even notice everybody else was standing at attention is on him. And did he really need to be briefed that the name of that tune there were playing was "God Save the Queen" and that you don't talk over it?

This man is not ready for prime time.

Original Mike said...

They should have sent Biden.

mccullough said...

This actually makes me like Obama a bit, like when H.W. threw up in Japan back in early '92 at that banquet.

We're Americans. We can't be bothered with your silly customs on your silly little island. Now if he'd quit bowing to the poo-bahs and potentates, we'd be better off.

chickenlittle said...

He never seems to be aware or to care when he breaks protocol or convention. Witness his lack of embarrasment when he gave HRC the finger in public.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...This man is not ready for prime time..."

Hell he's barely ready for an after school special.

Scott M said...

As a veteran of many, many public speaking events, I realize it's sooooo easy to get things screwed up, especially if you're the "away team".

I don't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this. Far more troubling, IMHO, is signing the guest book and dating it 2008.

I'll bet if you challenged him face to face on it, he's yell at you and point out that the president of China can say it's whatever damned year he wants it to be.

pm317 said...

bah humbug! It is Etiquette 101 for any Head of State or (politician) to stop talking and stand in attention when a national anthem is played. To blame his staff for his ignorance is so typical of his blind supporters. Thank God, you didn't blame the Orchestra like some others are doing. Even if things went awkward with the miscue, he could have easily stopped mid sentence once the music started and then finished it.

But there is something odd about this man. It seems to relate to his memory and his reading. When he reads something (usually from TOTUS), he is more concerned about losing his place in it and therefore oblivious to everything else around him. Does he not do any extemporaneous speaking at all? I guess not. He can't think on his feet either.

{word verfication 'paric' a letter away from panic}

vza said...

Much ado about nothing. I'll just bet the Queen was gracious and told him later not to worry about it. Such ridiculous criticism by people who look for any reason to criticize the guy. I did not like when it was done to President Bush and do not like it now. The sign of truly good manners and classy behavior is to NOT comment or draw attention to unintended mistakes.
And where on earth is there evidence that Obama hates all things English?

Hoosier Daddy said...

"...Th is actually makes me like Obama a bit, like when H.W. threw up in Japan back in early '92 at that banquet..."

Yes because uncontrollable vomiting from sickness is the same as being a moron.

Sixty Grit said...

Many someones did this nation a grave disservice by electing that stupid jug earred fool president.

Original Mike said...

"This actually makes me like Obama a bit, like when H.W. threw up in Japan back in early '92 at that banquet."

You don't actually entertain the notion that Bush did not know it was against protocol to throw up on the Prime Minister?

Rich B said...

The staff may have done him a disservice, but it sure made a lot of us laugh. I guess there are tradeoffs.

Scott M said...

The staff may have done him a disservice

I think a McDonalds franchise manager is about as high up the food chain as you can get making this excuse...and probably not even that high. If you're the boss, you're personally responsible for what your staff does and doesn't do in the performance of their duties. Especially when those duties directly affect YOUR performance...or lack thereof.

Freeman Hunt said...

Who is in charge of protocol? Seems like that person has flubbed a lot of engagements.

We need C3PO.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"..I don't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this....'

Cause his followers insist what a genius he is and this proves he's about average. If that.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Freeman wins with the Star wars reference. Well played, well played.

traditionalguy said...

They don't teach respect for higher authority in the Marxist curriculum his mother knew so well. Where could O have gotten taught these manors? He could still learn...he learned, and has never forgotten, the prostrate bow made before chants to allah during his years in Indonesia. That Queen Elizabeth is just not a "typical white woman".

Coketown said...

Actually, I heard the gaffe on the radio today, and absent the visual cues of everyone being uncomfortable it sounded rather theatrical! "To the Queen..." followed by a slow swell of music. He talked more, the music punctuated his words, both complimenting each other quite well. If I were unfamiliar with standard protocol I would have thought its execution was perfect.

He's still a retard, though.

MayBee said...

It is Etiquette 101 for any Head of State or (politician) to stop talking and stand in attention when a national anthem is played.

Exactly! This isn't about British protocol or royal protocol. What he did is against our protocol.

Paul Zrimsek said...

The band, taking its cue from the word Queen, struck up with We Will Rock You/ We Are the Champions.

Fixed.

mccullough said...

Hoosier,

H.W. was doing Sake bombs an hour before the banquet. That caused his "sickness." They had to pull him away from the Japense PM when he slurred: "I shot down 32 of you slant-eyed motherfuckers back in '43. Now I'm back to finish the job."

Scott M said...

Hysterical.

Sofa King said...

He was probably all coked up, and just couldn't stop talking.

windbag said...

When I was in the tenth grade, I was in a Christmas play. I made my entrance and the wrong time and the rest of the cast improvised and salvaged the act. Afterward, I complained about the rest of the cast's miscue and how it threw off the timing of the act. Wasn't much I could say when they pointed out MY error. When you believe you are the Sun King, it's incumbent on your subjects to adapt to your reality.

Bender said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
edutcher said...

mccullough said...

Hoosier,

H.W. was doing Sake bombs an hour before the banquet. That caused his "sickness." They had to pull him away from the Japense PM when he slurred: "I shot down 32 of you slant-eyed motherfuckers back in '43. Now I'm back to finish the job."


Lie.

Bush 41 was very ill with a stomach bug and on meds for it for a great deal of '92 - some have even attributed his lack of involvement in much of the '92 campaign.

He was not, however, drunk.

VanderDouchen said...

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

The buck stops here.

Penny wise and Pound foolish.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

One thing leads to another.

Put lead in your pencil.

Lead someone down the garden path.

Lead someone on a merry chase.

Lead the life of Riley.

It's a lead pipe cinch.

WV: enonick:

Nobody's welcome here. No bob, no bill, enonick.

mccullough said...

Edutcher,

Get a sense of humor. You need to leave RNC headquarters, take a walk, and get some fresh air.

Besides, H.W. wasn't a "real conservative" to you folks, so why are you defending him.

Original Mike said...

I think mccullough was making a funny.

MaggotAtBroad&Wall said...

Yeah, but when he told everyone to stand and lift their glass to toast the Queen, he was the only one to lift his glass. He was oblivious to the fact his was the only one holding his glass in the air -- even though at that point there was no way to back track gracefully.

And if you re-watch the clip, he didn't even pretend to take a sip after the Queen finally raised her glass to acknowledge the toast. Just a bad event for the president all around.

Bender said...

Obama does not care because he is above such things as class and common courtesy.

For example of his latest boorishness, consider the joint press conference with Prime Minister David Cameron. Obama kept referring to him as "David," while the PM referred to Obama as "the President."

I suppose we should just be satisfied that Obama did not make his toast "to Liz."

Scott M said...

Just a bad event for the president all around.

Thank God it happened in 2008 and we're all long over it by now.

edutcher said...

mccullough said...

Edutcher,

Get a sense of humor. You need to leave RNC headquarters, take a walk, and get some fresh air.

Besides, H.W. wasn't a "real conservative".


Neither are you.

I just hate the Lefty lies going unchallenged because, after a while, people start believing them if they're not.

Paul said...

Like I said, Obama is back to snorten coke (and I don't mean a cola.)

He did it for a year on college. And like smoking, he is in relapse.

Just a nother junkie.

VanderDouchen said...

My bad. I was thinking while I watched his expression after his recognition that he was not the star of the show at that moment; that expression, couldn't hide his feelings, yet again; that painful expression on his face; I was thinking the whole time, "wow, he actually feels like an idiom."

Idiom was not what I was looking for there. But, it is nice to see that there was at least recognition of his, je ne sais qua.

Ego's are meant to be bruised. A man will be humble at some point in his life. That is a guarantee. Whether he choses this moment to instill humbleness in his character is another topic.

WV: barytor: (no kidding)

Barytor it up during his toast for the Queen. My brotha!

Original Mike said...

I was in a Boy Scout organization called The Order of the Arrow. The ceremonies involved invoked American Indian imagery. I participated in the induction ceremony and had a solemn speech to give beside a big bonfire at lakeside, in full Indian regalia (yes, I know. I'm a racist). I practiced that speech over, and over, and over. It was long and I had to do with sans teleprompter.

The big night came. I was half way through the speech and on a roll. As prescribed, I paused, lit a flaming arrow and shot it arcing over the lake. As I paused for effect before launching into the big finale, the other member of the ceremony, the guide who was to take the inductees out into the woods for a night of meditation, thinking I was done, butted in and instructed the scouts to come with him.

Even at the age of 14 I knew enough to keep my mouth shut so that the inductees didn't know the ceremony had been flubbed. (What I really wanted to do was shoot the bastard with a flaming arrow).

It's called presence of mind. Our President ain't got it.

Synova said...

"Lie."

Joke?

ic said...

"...somebody on his staff did him a grave disservice by not making absolutely certain he was getting it right."

Are you kidding that somebody on his staff dared give advice to the man who knows everything and believes himself could do better than everyone on earth?

Or maybe it's a non-verbal "intellectual stammer".

mccullough said...

Edutcher,

I like balanced budgets, welfare reform, and blow jobs. So I'm a fiscal conservative and don't think the federal government should mind its own business on social issues, including abortion.

Mitch Daniels was my guy, but now I'll settle for Pawlenty or Huntsman. I'd love if the Dems nominated Bredesen, but they're morons. If Bill Clinton wants a third-term, I'd vote for him again.

But I'm tired of all the spending and irresponsible tax cuts. Reagan, W. and Obama (and the Congresses in their terms) have fucking soaked this country in debt with their two-bit philosophies.

And I'm sure the hell tired of Presidents and Presidential candidates talking about "values." I don't care if they share my values, I care if they dump more debt on my kids. What kind of values do the people who have done that have?

Milwaukee said...

At the end of the day the Prez is responsible for his staff: they were hired by him or his lackeys, they were trained by him or his lackeys. If he wanted a more competent staff he would have one.

Can't blame friends for bad advice when you picked your own friends. Obama is a socialist who doesn't like Britain or the Monarchy. Mom and Dad would agree with him.

DaveW said...

The telling thing is the way he didn't stop when it became obvious he was screwing up. He's so narcissistic he expected everyone to stop what they were doing and pay attention to him. And of course his pouty face afterward.

It was plenty obvious that he was screwing up. How hard is it to just stop, put the glass down and wait? Pretty hard for the Zero it seems.

John said...

No Ann, he did himself a grave disservice by not listening to his staff and properly preparing himself. I guarentee you someone on his staff knew this and either told him and he ignored it or never had access to him because he was too lazy and arrogant to properly prepare for the event.

The guy is just a disaster. And I think we can now all say he is not very bright.

John said...

"But I'm tired of all the spending and irresponsible tax cuts."

the US has some of the highest tax rates in the world. And no matter how high we raise them, the total federal collection stays at around 19 percent of GNP.

concern troll somewhere else.

Phil 3:14 said...

I know it had been awhile since there had been an official state visit to the Queen

Looks like it will quite some time before another happens.

Not to worry, the future King William is an informal chap.

Scott M said...

Looks like it will quite some time before another happens.

Maybe she'll give him a basket of DVD's that won't play in the U.S. for a go-away present.

Henry said...

Obama should have brought his own band.

Scott M said...

He did, but pirates and archers can't make it through security these days.

Shanna said...

Just a bad event for the president all around. Thank God it happened in 2008 and we're all long over it by now.

Heh.

At the end of the day the Prez is responsible for his staff: they were hired by him or his lackeys

Indeed. It doesn't reflect well on him to say his staff sucks. It's either that or he didn't pay attention to them. And the fact that he didn't pick up on the fact that you don't talk over the anthem is ALL on him. So, buck stops with you Mr. President.

Scott M said...

Look...this whole thing is comedic gold. I don't watch SNL much anymore at all, but I'm willing to bet they are cooking up a classic with this one.

The GOP candidate that can win in 2012 is the one that would be able to make fun of the President to his face about this and do it in a subtle but funny way. No more bullshit, "that's not statesmanlike behavior". We're past that stage.

mccullough said...

John,


Looking at all of taxes in the U.S., tax revenues as a percent of GDP were 25.6 percent in 1985, 27.3 percent in 1995, 29.9 percent in 2000, and 27.3 percent in 2005.

No doubt the U.S., and most of the state and locals, spend too much, but the taxes are pretty low, especially compared to other countries. How about we have 30% of GDP in tax revenues and spend within those means.

Also, the federal tax receipts as percent of GDP were 19.2 from '93-00. They were 17.8 percent from 00-06. I wonder why?

And "concern troll" is just a short-cut to thinking. If you have an argument and supporting facts, please make it. If you're a partisan hack, just say so.

Lincolntf said...

Ha ha ha.
Someone did us a grave disservice by selling a nincompoop who can't properly compose a toast as a grand orator.
Line up for tomorrow, when William Taft will extol the benefits of the Atkins Diet.

Miriam said...

The chief of protocol for the State Department is Capricia Penavic Marshall. You can read her bio here: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/128208.htm. You’ll see that she’s a long-time Clinton person. Hmm.

John said...

"Also, the federal tax receipts as percent of GDP were 19.2 from '93-00."

You just proved my point. You can't get it much above 19 percent no matter how hard you try. And I will tell you why not 30%, because people earned that money and ought to be able to keep it. And further, do you know what 30% of GDP taxes would do to growth. Why work if some jackass like you is just going to take the money?

Again, concern troll somewhere else.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

No matter how this embarrasment happened, I'm quite sure that it will be somebody else's fault.

Certainly not Obama for either not paying attention to protocol, not learning what the protocol is or for hiring idiots who didn't make sure he knew wtf he was supposed to do.

Obama is probably yelling and ranting at some poor schmuck right now.

It really isn't that hard to study up a bit BEFORE you go to another country on what the rules, laws and cultural norms are.

John said...

"If you have an argument and supporting facts, please make it. If you're a partisan hack, just say so."

You are worse than a partisan hack. You are a liar pretending to be something that you are not. You are just a liberal pretending to care about spending as cover for raising taxes. Again, take it somewhere else.

Hagar said...

A remarkable bit of balderdash to be emanating from the BBC.

And a state dinner is a state dinner anywhere in the world, and there are lengthy and detailed consultations between the staffs of the governments involved regarding the exact schedule and rituals to be followed, even when it is between "old friends" such as the US and Britain where no surprises are expected.

And if a head of state is to give a speech or a toast, there is no way that his state department will not call the chief of staff and insist on a session with his excellency to coach him on the agreed procedure.

That this happened really is inexplicable and reflects on the whole US Government, not just the President.

mccullough said...

John,

Taxes have to be high if we're going to pay for the elderly's health care, their pension, and the poor's health care.

If you want to get rid of this, I'm all ears. No one else wants that. Reagan jacked up the Social Security taxes, W. gave us Medicare Part D., and Obama is giving everyone health care.

And 1.4 percent points of GDP is the difference between W.'s irresponsible deficts and nearly balanced budgets. One percentage point of GDP is $150 billion a year.

John, you don't know what you're talking about. Let's return to the Clinton tax rates, something Obama and W. would never do. Then let's means test Medicare and Social Security. Then let's put all the federal welfare, including Medicaid, on the same benefits length as TANF. That would solve most of the problem, without hurting growth.

John said...

"That this happened really is inexplicable and reflects on the whole US Government, not just the President."

You can't fix stupid. I gaurentee you the State Department did exactly what you are saying. And he either didn't listen or didn't bother to let his COS schedule the session. this is entirely on BO

Browndog said...

No talking when the National Anthem is being played, no matter what country you are in?

Who knew?

The Smartest President EVAH!?

Nope.

Everyone else on the planet?

Yep.

John said...

"Taxes have to be high if we're going to pay for the elderly's health care, their pension, and the poor's health care."

No amount of taxes are going to pay for that unless you go to some kind of voucher system and even then it won't pay for it at the level that it currently does.

Look, the money isn't there. the best hope is to lower taxes and regulation and get the economy growing and cut the hell out of everything else and do the best you can with what you have.

the great society is dead. The repo man is coming. get used to it.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The reason that Obama was clueless to the fact that no one else was raising their glasses while he talked over their national anthem, is that he was STILL reading from the 3 x 5 cards that he had laid down on the table in front of him.

If he had practiced his speech, learned the words instead of reading them like some sort of automaton, he would have been able to make eye contact with the crowd.

Still.....he should have know the protocol.

There is no excuse for not knowing. NONE.

Lucius said...

It is comedic gold; but I'm still more concerned about "2008".

If Reagan did this in office they'd scream "Alzheimer's".

If Bush 41 or McCain did it they'd say "he's had a stroke-- probably unfit for duty".

If Bush 43 or Palin, they're "retards"-- and that's the "politicall correct" title for them.

So has Obama had one of those little "migraine" episodes like Woodrow Wilson was sometimes given to?

wv: prallys Presidential migraines can lead to it.

Scott M said...

DBQ,

Are you suggesting that there's a 3X5COTUS?

Salamandyr said...

John, you don't know what you're talking about. Let's return to the Clinton tax rates, something Obama and W. would never do. Then let's means test Medicare and Social Security. Then let's put all the federal welfare, including Medicaid, on the same benefits length as TANF. That would solve most of the problem, without hurting growth.

Mccullough, I'd happily go along with raising taxes if in addition to that we got spending restraint, entitlement reform, means testing and a balanced budget (and NO MORE entitlements!) The problme is...the people who want to raise the taxes aren't willing to go along with the spending cuts. And I'm not willing to tighten my belt just so they can buy more votes.

mccullough said...

John,

Let's cut the tax rates and get rid of the deductions, exemptions and see if that helps growth.

And let's at least repeal Medicare Part D and Obamacare.

mccullough said...

Salamandyr,

I completely agree. Republicans have to trade serious spending cuts for any tax increases. No sense we should run high deficits and pay more taxes. We may as well just keep our money and get to have a little fun for the next 7 - 10 years.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Taxes have to be high if we're going to pay for the elderly's health care, their pension, and the poor's health care.

Not necessarily. You could (gasp) cut spending elsewhere.

You could cut the waste and fraud from Medicare, Medicaid and SSI.

You could eliminate redundant and useless departments and programs.

You could cut back on military spending by closing un needed overseas basis.

You could cut back on giving billions and billions of dollars to countries that our enemies.

I would start by giving every single department of the federal government, starting with Michelle Obama's obscene amount of personal staff to the janitors at the IRS office, a mandate to cut their budgets by 8% this year and and additional 5% every year for the next 5 years.

There are plenty of places to cut spending before we raise taxes.

In addition.....how about having that 45% or so of the country who do not pay ANY income taxes to chip in a bit.

How about we let the poor's health care, which is better than the health care I can afford to pay for out of my own pocket, rely on charity?

Bunch of freaking freeloaders.

BarryD said...

We didn't fight the Revolution to kiss butts of Royals.

But... If Obama wasn't correctly advised in how to perform a diplomatic ritual, then what in BLOODY HELL are we the US taxpayers spending all that money for? By "all that money" I mean the cost of shipping and housing the huge Presidential crew (entourage?) in luxury and security.

phx said...

Shite happens.

mccullough said...

DBQ,

Getting rid of Medicaid, or at least having a 60-month lifetime benefits cap, would help. The rest of those cuts, while welcome, are a drop in the bucket.

You were silent about cutting Medicare and Social Security. Why?

Hagar said...

Royals give private parties where anything can happen (though not for publication), and there are semi-formal events such as when Condoleezza gave a piano recital for the Queen, but a state dinner is a State Dinner and is tighter choreographed than a Hollywood action sequence, and Obama was to be an Actor, not just a face in the crowd. Indeed the event was for him more than for the British Government, and he flubbed his lines.

mariner said...

Freeman Hunt,

We need C3PO.

You may be on to something here. C3PO was "human-cyborg relations".

Maybe Obama isn't really human. He's a rev. 0.9 cyborg.

It would explain a lot.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You were silent about cutting Medicare and Social Security. Why?

Because the measures I suggested were things that could be accomplished immediately. Fixing Medicare and Social Security are longer term issues.

Certain people who are now collecting/participating or who are so close to that age that they can't make new plans should be exempt from major changes.

Social Security and Medicare should both be means tested or have the option to opt out of the programs. Opt out either at the very beginning or when eligible.

If you opt out at eligibility for SS you should be given the option of recieving a rebate of all or a major portion of the money that you personally (not necessarily your employer's contributions) were forced to pay into the system. In the long run this would save the government money by not having to pay the higher SS awards for the higher income people for years. (Time value of money and value of an annuity. Higher income earners would LOVE to get that rebate or the option to just not be in the system, because they could then invest the money for themselves and get a better return and more security than the government would provide.

Medicare also should be able to opt out. In four years I will be Medicare eiligible andI like Ryan's idea of vouchers in order to purchase the coverage that I need and want and not be forced into a broken Medicare system, where you are basically unable to get a doctor and the care is substandard.

When there are enough people participating in the voucher system and IF the government butts the hell out and lets us have choices, the cost of coverage will come down and the proposed amount ($15,000 per year per person) will be adequate for most people's needs. If not then the seniors will have to kick in some of their own money....just like they do NOW for Medicare.

Medicare is not a FREE program you know. It costs about $115 a month for Part B and if you don't take part B you get fined (your premiums go up) every year by 10% and when you do sign up you pay the higher premiums for LIFE. Medicare doesn't cover much so you also need a Medicare Sup plan if you have health issues.....and those aren't free either.


More?

Lincolntf said...

"... and somebody on his staff did him a grave disservice by not making absolutely certain he was getting it right..."

Every time Ted Williams struck out it was the batboy's fault.

mccullough said...

DBQ,

Like your Medicare suggestions. The Part B premiums depend on your income; I thought $115 a month was for the under $85,000 in income crowd. I'm sure that's got to be a majority of participants.

Anyway, we need to add a $2,500 annual deductible and up to that as well. People need to pay more out-of-pocket. Also, Medicare needs to take into account wealth, as well as income, like Medicaid does. So you can up the out-of-pockets the higher the wealth, even if the income is less than $50,000.

I think the voucher idea is intriguing but politically un-doable. (Who knows in 5 years, though). But we should be able to put in out-of-pockets soon.

William said...

I have lived a long life and have never yet had occasion to wear white tie and tails. The outfit itself is kind of ridiculous. So far as royal protocol is concerned, I have a low intuitive understanding that fart jokes would be inappropriate, but all that stuff about bowing, not bowing, glass clinking, etc, is pretty baroque. It is not just that it is antiquated and elaborate: it is that people consider it worth learning......Republicans who wish to defeat Obama would be wise to concentrate on rising deficits, unemployment, and inflation. Leave this royal protocol stuff alone. I think one of the reasons Palin's fans bond so closely to her is the unfairness of the criticism she receives. A similar phenemonen is likely to happen if conservatives try to show that Obama's incompetence is demonstrated by his inability to properly toast the Queen. Those who criticize Jeffrey Dahmer for his table manners are missing the point.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Also, Medicare needs to take into account wealth, as well as income, like Medicaid does. So you can up the out-of-pockets the higher the wealth, even if the income is less than $50,000.

Not practical.

First of all most people who have "wealth" have it in illiquid assets like their home or other property or in personal possessions. Are you suggesting that people get penalized because they bought a house in ...say...San Francisco in the 1940's for $15,000, paid it off and now it is worth, through no effort of their own 100 times the purchase price?

Second: Those illiquid assets have different relative values depending on where you live. Your house in SF is going to worth much more than the same house in Paducka Kentucky. How are you going to make Medicare, which is a National program, equitable across the US. People will just retire to low property value states. Set up irrevocable trusts, gift property and 'wealth' away. Lots of strategies to get around that.

Medicaid (MediCal) has provisions that you must be poor, very very poor in order to qualify. Is this what you want? To purposely impoverish seniors and force them to divest themselves of their assets aquired over a lifetime of hard work when they get ill?

Means testing yes for income for costs and out of pocket. Wealth is too problematic and not practical.

Curious George said...

It's just laughable to assume the mistake was by the protocol staff. That's all these people do, and their job depends on doing it right. What do you think happens to someone who embarrasses the President because they are imcompetrnt.

Nope Barry f*cked up.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

But we should be able to put in out-of-pockets soon.

There are already deductibles and co-pays. That is why people buy Med Sup plans....to cover those and for procedures that Medicare doesn't cover. Also Long Term Care policies since Medicare doesn't cover any kind of non-accute medical long term care, like Alzhiemers, dementia or stroke.

ricpic said...

It used to be "If Hitler only knew," now (according to Althouse) it's "If Obama only knew."

Leon said...

he had a written toast which he could not give without reading from notes. isn't the first rule of toasts memorize it--it had better be short. someone on staff failed on the protocol side of things because the whole thing was planned.....wrong.

ricpic said...

I have lived a long life...

What are we supposed to do, William, applaud?

mccullough said...

DBQ,

The Part B deducible is a low $162. And the out-of-pockets are 20%. So you'd have to about $12,000 to even hit the $2,500 out-of-pocket floor. (Part D is $320 deductible, 25% between $320 and $2,930, etc.).

Of course you're right on the long-term care issue. Unfortunately, the largest expense of Medicaid is poor seniors in nursing homes. So unless you have long-term care policy or a family with time/resources, you have to go broke to afford nursing home care.

We have a pretty humane system for our elderly in the U.S. We just can't afford it anymore. We're going to have to make seniors dip into their assets more to pay their health costs.

Original Mike said...

"And 1.4 percent points of GDP is the difference between W.'s irresponsible deficts and nearly balanced budgets."

Oh, what I would give for W's irresponsible deficts right about now.

VanderDouchen said...

I see you are concerned, William. It is always a wonderful thing to see people suddenly become concerned. Concerned and full of advice to alleviate concerns. Concerning concern.

WV: racsre:

I'm concerned with all of the racsre ist racsre ism going on.

William said...

@ricpic: Check with your protocol officer. Raucous applause is out of place, but gently tapping the fingers of the left hand into the palm of the right hand is appropriate.

Judy said...

Can we please stop discussing this like somehow the fact that this involved the Queen may the protocol incomprehensible? The format of the toasts at this dinner is used at all State occasions. Just bing 'state dinner protocol exchange of toasts' and you'll get all the info you need to conduct yourself with dignity. Obama even had the example of the Queen for follow. He's an incompetent moron promoted to the level of his incompetence. He and he alone is responsible for this mistake. It wasn't his first state dinner after all was it? How many times does he need to practice to get it right?

John Burgess said...

It's my professional experience that White House staff doesn't have a clue about protocol outside the Office of Protocol. That office concerns itself with White House-based functions solely and never thinks that other countries might have their own way of doing things. They assume and never check.

The US Embassy in London fell down here, too, in assuming that the WH Protocol people knew what they were doing, instead of assuming the ignorance. WH staff has a tendency to get all pissy if people try to tell them how to do their jobs (understandable, to a degree), but really don't know enough to even ask the right questions.

The result is either hurt feelings when another country's protocol overrides the WH protocol (as here) or the issues do get raised beforehand and the WH protocol gets smacked down. The the staffers have to go, tail between legs, to their bosses and explain why they've failed in greatness.

We won't get into the fact that the people who actually advance Presidential visits are usually 20-something volunteers who are generally clueless on all fronts...

Methadras said...

This moron doesn't know what protocol is. Do I even need to bring up the bow to the Saudi King? Oh wait, that wasn't protocol, that was subordinate deference. Never mind.

John Burgess said...

@MaggotAtBroad: Protocol--and etiquette 101--actually say that the person to whom the toast is directed never raises his/her glass and never rises. The toast is received with a nod of the head and the glass sitting on the table. Queen Liz knows this and has had lots and lots of practice.

edutcher said...

BarryD said...

We didn't fight the Revolution to kiss butts of Royals.

No, but there is such a thing as common courtesy. We expect them to do it our way over here; they have every right to expect the same over there.

What Little Zero did is the kind of Cowboy Behavior the Lefties accused Dubya of doing.

Fred4Pres said...

Off Topic, but this screams out caption contest.

edutcher said...

mccullough said...


Edutcher,

I like balanced budgets, welfare reform, and blow jobs. So I'm a fiscal conservative and don't think the federal government should mind its own business on social issues, including abortion.

Mitch Daniels was my guy, but now I'll settle for Pawlenty or Huntsman. I'd love if the Dems nominated Bredesen, but they're morons. If Bill Clinton wants a third-term, I'd vote for him again.

But I'm tired of all the spending and irresponsible tax cuts. Reagan, W. and Obama (and the Congresses in their terms) have fucking soaked this country in debt with their two-bit philosophies.

And I'm sure the hell tired of Presidents and Presidential candidates talking about "values." I don't care if they share my values, I care if they dump more debt on my kids. What kind of values do the people who have done that have?


If mccullough wants Willie, he better get Gingrich back as House Speaker because he was the one who got things in order, not Willie.

As I said last night, it was Democrats, just like Willie, who went back on the spending cuts Reagan wanted in exchange for the tax cuts, the same way Willie fought Gingrich on the budget and welfare reform.

Daniels was only willing to do anything that didn't involve anybody but the Republican-dominated legislature. Daniels was afraid to go against the unions and he was afraid to go against Planned Parenthood and was scared of a fight, generally - exactly what we don't need next year. mccullough spouts Daniels' line about not wanting to tackle the Demos on social issues, so he concedes them 80 - 90% of the justification for all their spending. But I do believe mccullough has no values, including fiscal Conservatism - just like Willie.

Whether Pawlenty packs the gear or not, we'll see, but it's fascinating that mccullough only likes old RINOs or Willie Whitewater - who almost gave us Hillarycare.

Do the math.

mccullough said...

Edutcher,

Clinton pushed through the tax increases in 1993. Those increases, along with constrained spending by Republican Congress, resulted in some fiscal discipline.

Reagan was a blow-hard. He didn't give a shit about spending or deficits. Now you make him sound like a chump for getting rolled by the Dems. Reagan signed those bills, just like W. and just like Obama. He should be held accountable for his out-of-control deficits.

Daniels is not in favor of public unions. Indiana, unlike Wisconsin, it was by executive order that public employees had the right to collective bargaining. Daniels rolled that back not long after taking office. Indiana is a manufacturing state. Why should anyone care about private-sector unions, they are 7% of the private-sector workforce. Daniels state is fiscally sound, which is rather astonishing for a rust-belt state. It has a low-level of state workers, unlike Alaska, which has 30,000 (with a population of less than 700,000).

As for social issues, why should the federal government have anything to do with abortion, gay marriage,etc. Let the people live where they want and have them sort it out at the local or state level. If California wants open abortion, like it instituted under then-Governor Reagan in the late 1960s, great. If Alaska wants to ban it, great.

But where the hell does Congress get the commerce clause power to ban partial-birth abortion? The social cons love that commerce clause when enacts their wet dream social causes.

I know you social cons want to impose your values on everyone else, but just live where you want and impose them on each other.

Who is your candidate, Bachmann, Cain or Palin? And what the hell have any of them ever done. Stack their records against Pawlenty or Daniels or Huntsman. It's an embarrassing comparison unless your judging on abortion screeds.

Your the RINO, edutcher. You just want abortion and gay marriage banned. You love the deficits and the social welfare. That's why the social conservative states get so much federal money for the welfare programs, just like Alaska and Wyoming.

exhelodrvr1 said...

Were the people who voted for him because they knew he would break all his campaign promises expecting this, too?

shiloh said...

Indeed, the mistress's lemmings are really, really gonna be pissed when Obama is easily re-elected.

AA, one more Obama protocol post and you'll have the hat-trick and your conservative flock will be stuffed full of read meat!

A win/win ...

take care, blessings

The Drill SGT said...

The result is either hurt feelings when another country's protocol overrides the WH protocol (as here) or the issues do get raised beforehand and the WH protocol gets smacked down. The the staffers have to go, tail between legs, to their bosses and explain why they've failed in greatness.

O'bama f'd up,

the DoS protocol folks were certain to have tried to brief him,

Obama clearly f'd up as evidenced by his uttering 3 times of the magic words, "to her Majesty the Queen", before during and after the anthem. When the band, Blues and Royals, a household Cavalry outfit that has been here and done this before (bet they practiced regardless)

final proof Ann: Look at your first post on the topic, find MayBees link to the long video.

BEFORE O'bama f's up... The Queen does her toast, and O'bama does NOT pay attention:

Queen:
1. Speech
2. "To Michelle and President O'bama"
3. Star Spangled Banner
4. stand at attention
5. song ends
6. Glasses raised in salute
7. sip

He wasn't blazing a trail here. all he had to do was follow her lead.

PS: it's not Brit protocol, its universal

bagoh20 said...

The Presidential excuse team is damned busy lately. It's exceeding one per day now.

bagoh20 said...

What would you do about a guy you hired to handle important duties if everyday you had to listen to his excuses for why he did his job poorly and failed to keep virtually any important promises he made to you, while he constantly blamed you and his predecessor for his failures?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

What would you do about a guy you hired to handle important duties if everyday you had to listen to his excuses for why he did his job poorly and failed to keep virtually any important promises he made to you, while he constantly blamed you and everyone else for his failures.

Divorce.

That's what I did with my first husband.

Jose_K said...

SOFT porn channel Babestation is being followed on Twitter - by the President's official @BarackObama account

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3601630/Soft-porn-channel-is-followed-on-Twitter-by-BarackObama-the-Presidents-account.html#ixzz1NVdXoTRf

deborah said...

Give the man a break. Toasting the Queen of England is a big deal, and when the orchestra miscued, he was so tense he didn't process that he should stop talking. Kudos to the Queen for being queenly and gracious about it.

DADvocate said...

It's unfair to ask a man in love with his own words to shut up.

el polacko said...

protocol, shmotocol...our idiot prez TALKED OVER THEIR NATIONAL ANTHEM..treating it like mood music for his magical oratory...no doubt he expected styrofoam columns to be moved into place around him while cherubs were dangled around his head by wires...he ignored what everyone else in the room was doing until he caught the queen's stern expression and then put down his glass like the kid whose mom had given him 'the look'. what an embarrassing display! our fawning MSM, however, has reported the incident as being the rude orchestra's fault for 'playing him off the stage' before his speech was over...ugh

Fr Martin Fox said...

I stuck up for the President the first time I looked at this; but when I looked again (bored with administrative tasks, that's why), I realized he blew it.

It's really simple: right before he gave his toast, the Queen gave hers. All he had to do was do what she did. She gave her speech, she concluded; the orchestra played the national anthem, and then she drank.

It happened right in front of him.

And, yes, it matters (some) because he's the President of the United States. We're not so broke we can't afford some class.

Peano said...

somebody on his staff did him a grave disservice by not making absolutely certain he was getting it right.

FLASH! THIS JUST IN! The buck stops with ... the president's staff.

Still floundering to justify her vote.

wv: allas

Allas, indeed.

William said...

What's black and white and red all over? Pres. Obama after he commits a gaffe at a formal dinner. (Note this is an allusion to his formal wear and should not be construed as a racially motivated comment.)....What's black and white and read all over? President Obama's teleprompter on a trip abroad. What's black and white and red all over? Prersident Obama's teleprompter when he makes a speech in San Francisco.

Milwaukee said...

DBQ: In addition.....how about having that 45% or so of the country who do not pay ANY income taxes to chip in a bit.

Spot on. Everybody should pay at least 2% income tax. There was a time when everybody, even the humblest man, could say with pride "Hey, I'm a tax payer, you can't treat me like that, I've got rights!" Even those of poor estate can help contribute, and say that honestly. One justification for a poll tax is that those who are contributing get to make the decisions.

Browndog said...

I watched this official video with the sound off-then on.

Priceless.

As an American, you cannot be more embarrassed.

VanderDouchen said...

Deborah:

snort.

good one. let's blame the band. not that I haven't heard that already, but, you know. good one. fucking drummers.

How do you get a drummer off of your front porch?

Pay for the pizza.

Fucking drummers made Captain Kickass look estoopid.


WV: forat:

fucking drummer wouldn't get off of my porch, so I threw one of his sticks in the woods. He's still looking forat.

Juba Doobai! said...

Obama likes the sound of his own voice. What this incident reveals is Obama's own abysmal ignorance. Was it too much for the POTUS to know the British anthem? Was it too much for him to know to shut his yap when the anthem was being played, or was he stupid enough to imagine that the music was being played in the background as a tribute to in-his-own-mind-magnificent words? Don't blame his staff. Blame Obama's bloody ignorance of everything except Marxism, communism, and Alinskyism. The dumb bastard doesn't even know the U.S. Constitution, and he is alleged to have taught it.

Juba Doobai! said...

Althouse, stop making silly excuses for Obama. We know you're going to vote for the twit again even though you know he's as dumb as the back of a spoon and only interested in himself. No need to bore us with excuses for his ignorance and stupidity.

windbag said...

Let's not underestimate the confusion that overwhelmed The One during that moment. When he makes a stinky, people usually congratulate him.

Big Mike said...

My dear Professor, is it his staff (and who is responsible for putting quality people on his staff if not, ultimately, himself?) or is it that he simply doesn't listen to people?

Seeing Red said...

But where the hell does Congress get the commerce clause power to ban partial-birth abortion? The social cons love that commerce clause when enacts their wet dream social causes

Blame the 9 old white men who found a right & who needlessly caused 40 years of this nation being torn apart.

The states should have been allowed to handle it. Technology has come a long way.

Besides - the pro side is fond of the word "viable."

R U really gonna argue that generally a 9-month gestation/fetus coming down the birth canal overall isn't "viable?"

Isn't a baby?

Besides, I thought the overall average was about 500 a year?

roesch-voltaire said...

VZA what is a sensible person like you doing on this site?

Milwaukee said...

Seeing Red: Get your story straight. Roe v. Wade was 7-2 decision, with 6 White guys and 1 Black guy. It was a horrible decision in many ways and on many levels.

John Clifford said...

Two possible causes:

1) Barack Obama doesn't hire qualified people who can actually inform him of the correct diplomatic protocols, or

2) Barack Obama doesn't listen to his people and therefore makes embarrassing, preventable blunders.

Either way, the buck stops at Barack Obama's desk. It's his fault.

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