April 3, 2011

Court rules that a dog must die because he looks like a pit bull.

In Ireland, where pit bulls are illegal. The dog, Lennox, is a cross between a bulldog and a Labrador.
Before the young dog was seized from his home he had committed no crime and no members of the public had complained about his behavior. On the day he was seized three police officers arrived at the family home unannounced along with the Dog Wardens. The police were sent away and the Wardens sat down with the family, had tea, smoked cigarettes and played with the family's other dogs.

The Wardens then measured Lennox's muzzle and rear legs with a dress-maker's tape measure and decided, without any professional advice, that he was a "Pit Bull Type Breed"....

79 comments:

galdosiana said...

This just makes me sick. I hope they are successful in their appeal.

mc said...

Let's start measuring and dispatching politicians and journalists.

Space aliens?

Hmmmm...seems like fertile ground for improvement is all around us, and those sophisticated Europeans are leading the way!---er, well, o.k., the filthy Irish, but they are across the pond.

I also like the euphemism "to measure", let's take the measure of so much around us, improvement is potentially every where.

Let's get to measurin'!!

Tailors and seamstresses, dark angels the lot of them, how neato.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mc said...

Did I get points, and just lose them, for not making a wagging Tail-or joke in that last comment.

There must have been some manner of wiggly pun in there, never mind, I'll just subtract points here on my ledger that I keep with me at home.

ugh. Measuring a dog for death. I just gave two puppies a bath, what kind of person can sip tea and contemplate that mortal treachery against little paws and lapping tongue?

Tried to keep the humor up but now I just want to break those scumbag's femurs. Where are the green activists now?

edutcher said...

This is why revolutions happen. Government starts to think it's an end in itself.

rhhardin said...

A whole book about it right here in the US here, Bandit by Vicki Hearne. Ignore the awful and misguided cover blurb.

Hearne takes no prisoners.

virgil xenophon said...

Sixty-grit says it ALL!!!

virgil xenophon said...

PS: Kafka would be proud..

F4GIB said...

You have to remember that everyone with brains, stamina, and guts left Ireland for the USA (and other pioneering lands) in the last two centuries. The genetic legacy left in Ireland comes from those too weak to act. It's their prodigy that can't make peace, can't run a banking system (or a tiny economy), and passes and enforces legislation like this.

They are a polite people but nothing else, certainly nothing admirable.

My Ireland-born grandfather would have used stronger language. ;-)

lemondog said...

AAAAAAAAAAAssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhoooooooollllllllllllllleeeeeeeeesssssss!!!!!!!!!!

lemondog said...

Assholes!!!!!

mc said...

LemonDog,

While admirably pithy I can't shake an uncertainty as to whom you are directing the epithet.

flenser said...

Belfast is not in "Ireland", it is part of the UK. Pit bulls are not banned in Ireland.

That's what you get for assuming that journolists are non-idiots. If you follow the "illegal in Ireland" link you see the folowing information:

Ironically, if Bruce lived south of the border in Ireland, he would be not be on death row as pitbulls are not a banned breed.

And if he lived in Britain, he would be fine because British owners are allowed to keep a banned breed if they comply with several regulations including neutering the dog and getting them insured.

However, in Northern Ireland a different law applies and the animal must be destroyed.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lemondog said...

Here is the work of another asshole whom Ireland would be proud. Irony of ironies, Patrick found March 17 on St Patricks day and named after same, and Patrick on March 30.

CAUTION: These are some of the worst photos I've seen.

The owner has pled 'not guilty.'

Maguro said...

Is the dog a papist? Is that it?

Ann Althouse said...

"Belfast is not in "Ireland", it is part of the UK. Pit bulls are not banned in Ireland."

Well, hell. The phrase "illegal in Ireland" is in the article. I kinda just assumed "Belfast City" was different from Belfast. Like Kansas City and Kansas....

I only went to that site because Drudge linked to it for some rumor that Samantha Power will be the next Secretary of State... which seemed a bit off too.

Fred4Pres said...

The "authorities" used to do similar things to the Catholics in Ireland.

You would think they would be a bit more forgiving.

Fred4Pres said...

Oh its Belfast...well that explains it!

Mark O said...

A clear preview of Obamacare.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Crack Emcee said...

This is a crime. Pitbulls are great dogs, probably the best breed ever invented.

And then the dog isn't even a pit?

Madness.

lemondog said...

The Dangerous Dogs Act is enacted in the UK, Wales, Scotland and apparently Northern Ireland which is a part of the UK.

Synova said...

The dog doesn't have to die because it looks like a pit bull. I has to die because people feel entitled to micromanage other people's choices for the common good.

The dog will get loads of sympathy, but most of those crying tears will be right up there ready to vote to tell their neighbors what color they can paint their house, where they can park their car, what car they can drive or what light bulb they can use, what fat can be used in baked goods, how often they must cut their grass...

But the dog is a tragedy.

virgil xenophon said...

F4GIB/

If you're still around you ought to check out the site "Neptunus Lex" run by a retired Navy O-6F-18 driver. This old ex-zoomie former F-4C/D driver and a goodly number of AF types (we're tolerated :) ) post there as well, plus Army, Marine and civilian "friends of the military" both pilot and non-pilot types. Got NZ, Oz and UK types as well. Good mix of active and ret., etc. Come over and check it out..we AF types always need more wingmen over there. :)

(PS:Subjects range from "war stories" gen politics, defense policy, the "culture wars" current combat tactics, "plane prOn" and whatever strikes Lex's fancy or is hot in the news .)

Blair said...

Pit bulls are banned in New Zealand also. The main issue is that they were not a common breed, but used for dogfighting and as weapons in gang wars.

I am guessing Northern Ireland, with its organised crime and gangs, has a similar problem, and while the libertarian in me doesn't like it, I can completely understand why that breed would be banned in that part of the country.

Browndog said...

Pitbulls are the probably the best breed ever?

Probably not.

Labs are.

Chocolate Labs to be exact.

4 legged perfection.

Period.

AJ Lynch said...

The bureaucracrats are winning people. We should just say no to their BS buttinski rules. And say it politely, of course, at first.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Methadras said...

The problems of Ireland must surely have been solved for these leftard morons to find the time to persecute a dog they think looks like a pitbull because they clearly can't even get proper breeding of the dog right at all. This is outrageous. Who does this? Seriously?

Oligonicella said...

Ann Althouse --

I kinda just assumed "Belfast City" was different from Belfast. Like Kansas City and Kansas....

Are you referring to Kansas City, Kansas - Kansas City, Missouri or North Kansas City, Missouri?

holdfast said...

Frankly, I am sick of all the goddamned pitbulls around here. I wouldn't mandate they be killed out of hand, but I would ban them from public dog parks. More than half of the dogs in local shelters are Pits, and so our local dog run is is full of well-meaning but clueless white people and their out of control dogs. When the gangbangers (and wannabes) and Cholos own them, at least they have the good grace to keep the beasts at home guarding their drug dens or fighting for sport or whatever, but they don't bring them to the community dog run with normal dogs and kids around.

Thank god we are out of here in a couple of months.

enicar333 said...

Looks can be deceiving.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/bolt-on-trial-for-heresy-against-high-church-of-political-correctness-20110331-1cn9s.html

David said...

" . . . some rumor that Samantha Power will be the next Secretary of State . . ."

Some Milblogs are speculating that Gates has to go at Defense, since he is clearly at odds with the Libyan escapade. They say the problem is Obama has no one credible to put in Defense.

So, Samantha Power as Defense Secretary. You heard it here first.

Oligonicella said...

Browndog --

Labs are.

I respectfully disagree Sam.

Belkys said...

Pitbulls are great dogs,
That like to kill babies and old people.
Keep the pity for people

Browndog said...

Samantha Power has no shot at Senate confirmation.

Not just because her qualifications amount to writing a book, But, the fact the Middle-East is erupting, and her positions on an arab Palestinian state and Israel are well documented.

Oligonicella said...

Belkys --

"Pitbulls are great dogs,
That like to kill babies and old people.
Keep the pity for people."

Utterly untrue. Any dog can be trained to attack. Look at any police force and the predominant dog is a German Shepard. They also have been known to kill people.

Pits, raised like a normal dog are exactly that, a normal dog.

lemondog said...

, but my Border Collie thinks they are good for dominating. She is correct

Did you see this episode of Nova Science How Smart are Animals??

First 15 mins or so are about dogs and one specific border collie. She engages in a process of elimination, showing dogs can problem solve.

Those old Disney movies in which dogs spring other dogs from the clutches of dog catcher probably not so far-fetched.

Browndog said...

Oligonicella said...

Albino Sheppard? Beautiful.

Love Sheppards. Had them my whole life--until the grand daughter came along.

It was a couple years since my last dog passed, and it was time for another go around.

Sheppards, to me, are typically one man dogs. Protective.

Had to have a dog that posed as little risk to the little one as possible.

Larry J said...

Back in the 1990s, our Congress passed a law outlawing scary looking guns (better known as the "assault weapon ban"). It was a farce.

I guess Northern Ireland has a law against scary looking dogs. It doesn't have to actually be a "dangerous breed". Just looking scary is enough to warrant the death penalty.

lemondog said...

Pits, raised like a normal dog are exactly that, a normal dog.

Amen.

As breeds become popular, we keep going through this cycle of tagging certain breeds as dangerous....in the past German shepards, dobermans come to mind.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mary Beth said...

It doesn't cost that much to check for sure.

AJ Lynch said...

Sixty Grit:
Isn't there a CW singer named Chrystal Gale too?

When I first read your comment, I thought of her and not the so-called exotic dancer of Duke lacrosse repute.

reader_iam said...

There was a problem with pit bulls in our area, but primarily because there were clusters of people who were raising them to fight, be agressive and so forth. This meant that even non-agressive, well raised ones came to be viewed with suspicion--as well other breeds that some people confused with pitbulls or thought were pitbull-like. (An example is pugs, which we had for years and, of course, are completely people-oriented.)

Right now, we have a dog who's a crazy mixed-up mutt: part pug, for sure, part husky or the like (she has one blue eye NOT shaped like a pug's and one brown eye, shaped and bulging exactly like a pug's) and a touch of something else, probably shepherd. This *really* confuses people, but she is the sweetest dog, especially given that she was abused when young (not by us, of course!). People are prone to jump to conclusions out of fear, and I wouldn't like those who are to make decisions about what is or what is not a vicious dog.

This story from Ireland really upsets and saddens me. So wrong!

And yet, I can understand why people get concerned, especially regarding kids. Some dog owners can be very irresponsible; some parents can be too careless. Etc.

I was very careful w/r/t my own kid when he was very young (but certainly never called for banning of breeds), precisely because I was severely mauled by a German Shepherd as a very small child. It took me until well into adulthood to get over a fear of dogs (who--so ironically!--tended to like me, much to my chagrin).

Now, I love them, and my son has been raised all of his life in a multi-dog household. Still, I'm cautious, and I can appreciate caution in other people.

Stupidity, in the form of unthinking assumptions and jumping to conclusions,not so much... .

John Myste said...

Wow, now breedism. What's next?

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Browndog said...

"Pits, raised like a normal dog are exactly that, a normal dog."

I vehemently disagree, and can't let that sit without challenge.

Some breeds, Pitt Bulls more than others, are more inclined to be vicious than others.

That is a fact, based on data.

I suppose you could grab a data point from the not all muslims are terrorists files if you so chose...

For the record, I do not advocate restrictions on Pitt Bull ownership. But, in doing so, you must approach it with eyes wide open.

To say a Pitt is just a "normal" dog is false and dangerous.

holdfast said...

First, almost all breeds are selected for mental or temperamental, as well as physical, characteristics - just look at the placid Lab, the jumpy but smart Border Collie, the protective Sheppard or the fearless Ridgeback, so you can't tell me that Pits haven't been selected for aggression or short-temperedness - I mean, just look at who was doing the breeding.

Second, even if you do buy the notion that all dogs with at least a neutral disposition, the practical reality is that most of the Pits out there were bred by scumbags, and so it's not like they had very nurturing puppyhoods and the shelters are full of these dogs.

Finally, Pits have incredibly powerful jaw muscles, meaning that a bite from a Pit, whether in anger or as an "oops" during play is going to have much more severe consequences than a but from a soft-mouthed retriever.

Oligonicella said...

Browndog - Nope, Sam was a Dobi-Samoyed. All 85lbs of him.

Oligonicella said...

Browndog --

"That is a fact, based on data."

Would this be on dogs who have been raised as normal family members or dogs raised by assholes? Does the data separate those two? If not, it's worthless.

wv: statick - It's statick's like that which give me pause.

Bill White said...

A legal question prompted by the original article: how is it possible for a dog commit a crime?

Bill White said...

*to commit...

Oligonicella said...

holdfast -

"the practical reality is that most of the Pits out there were bred by scumbags"

Yep. Used to be the same with Dobi's. It's not the breed. The scumbags skew stats.

reader_iam said...

Did you know that pugs have jaws powerful enough to crack a walnut? Forget about getting them small-dog chewies: best to go for big-dog ones.

Yet they have incredibly people-oriented, gentle temperaments (well, they were bred specifically to be lapdogs centuries ago--though from bull mastiffs, so the story goes). So it's not just about powerful jaws, it's about other breed characteristics, as well--PLUS how dogs are bred AND how they're raised.

Browndog said...

Oligonicella said...

Interesting....

You did well.

The happiness and content in his eyes beams...

Browndog said...

@Oligonicella

Yes, the data includes so called "loving families" that the dog suddenly mauled.

I understand your point, but it's simply irresponsible to say, all things being equal, that Pitts are just a docile as any other breed. They are not-

...on the whole.

You cannot "love" instinct out of a dog entirely....

You can't even do it with humans.

The Elder said...

Browndog, you are wise indeed! Labs are the best! By the way, your photo reveals that you are very good looking. Chocolate Labs are wonderful. Yellow and Black Labs are, as well.

Now for a statement that is sure to kick over a hornet's nest here.

"There are only two kinds of dogs in the world -- Labs and those that wish they were."

That ought to do it.

former law student said...

Assuming for the moment that pit bulls are dangerous, it's easy enough to determine a dog's ancestry:

http://www.canineheritage.com/

The Canine Heritage® Breed Test, developed by the pioneer in canine breed identification and a recognized leader in DNA technology, can help unravel the mystery of your mixed-breed pup. How often have you been asked: What kind of dog is that? This DNA-based diagnostic test can give you the answer by comparing your dog's DNA to over 100 of the most popular breeds.

Pit bulls or AmStaffs are not included, but the lethargic bulldog and the active Labrador's genes should be obvious.

The same once-free Brit mentality that disarmed its people -- next to be banned: edged weapons -- and put surveillance cameras everywhere has apparently extended to man's best friend.

holdfast said...

To be clear, I'm not for making illegal whole categories of things, even Pit Bulls. I do resent people taking these half-trained animals into places where they could harm my child or my dogs - to me it is like someone who, otherwise legally, carries a pistol with a faulty trigger sear or or some other defect likely to cause it to negligently discharge. Do what you want at home, but stay out of the public park paid for by my taxes.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jeff said...

Ann:
"Well, hell. The phrase "illegal in Ireland" is in the article. I kinda just assumed 'Belfast City' was different from Belfast. Like Kansas City and Kansas.."

Well hell, indeed. Did you also assume that an email address like "complaints@belfastcity.gov.uk" would be to the Republic of Ireland?! You know what they say about the word "ASSUME."

Trooper York said...

Well Jeremy emailed me to say that poodles are the best!

Well at least for his purposes anyway.

sarge said...

sarge here sarge thought this thread ment althouse was bein put down oh well sarges bad

Harwood said...

Pit bulls, when properly raised, make excellent targets for practicing with large-bore pistols and high-powered rifles.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A "Shotgun" Gold said...

I'll point out that so-called "assault weapons bans" typically ban certain firearms based upon their appearance (i.e., similarity to actual military weapons.) As a result, one typically finds AR-15's banned, because they look like an M-16. Whereas the Ruger Mini 14, which fires the same ammo as the AR-15 and represents an identical capability in terms of actual firepower has traditionally not been on the "assault weapons" list. Why? Because it is normally made of wood, not black plastic, it doesn't have a pistol grip on it. Same idiotic reasoning as the case here with the pooch!

reader_iam said...

A "Shotgun" Gold:

It's called "policy based on appearance as opposed to behavior (much less capability, much less culpability)," in turn founded on judgment which operates the same way.

This is just a more obvious example of it. The not-so-obvious is a hallmark of our politics and--more important--also permeates our very culture (I'd argue that the latter started first, thus giving rise to the former; I know others disagree.).

In any case, from my POV, it's a virus to which few entities or systems are immune, and thus the thrust by most is to adapt to, rather than eliminate, the virus.

Just me said...

What makes me sick is the mass rush to believe this story.

Read this news item: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/lennox-after-10-months-locked-up-judge-rules-dog-must-die-15130806.html

and you find that the owners agreed that the dog was a Pit Bull mix. Or please read this news item:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12901538

and learn about the dog's previous aggressive behavior.

Now, I'm fine with having a discussion about whether or not it's smart to put down Pit Bulls, and or, mixes. I believe that all dogs are unique, just as humans are, but let's be clear that the authorities were right. This dog is a Pit Bull mix and that's illegal in Ireland. Again, I'm all for having an intellectual discussion about the law, but the current law is clear.

This is what's so sad about our country today. A blogger, or their blog readers, can't even take 5 minutes to search Google and see if there is another side of the story. That this blog, and it's readers, would so quickly accept the story as being 100% true is absolutely frightening. For those of you who have responded with outrage, I have some ocean front property here in Arizona that I'd love to sell you.

former law student said...

and you find that the owners agreed that the dog was a Pit Bull mix.

Sounds like they got tired of wasting their breath arguing to the contrary. In fact, their dog was part Staffy, which is not pit bull, and Staffies are too small to do much harm.

holdfast said...

@A "Shotgun" Gold

FWIW, Connecticut figured that out, and made sure to add the Mini-14 and other similar semi-auto, but not military, rifles to their banned list.

JAL said...

That's just crazy.

How about one of those DNA tests? They do it for horses.

mc said...

@Holdfast,

CT's craven asshole liberal politicians (repetitive?) figured nothing out and the mini-14 is only on the list with a folding stock.
It looks scarier!

http://www.ct.gov/dps/lib/dps/special_licensing_and_firearms/assault_weapons.pdf

CT's politicians and media class. When that whole getting charged with murder thing stops slowing you down there they are making us all safe once again by banning the tools.

Thanks Reps, now get out there and clap for your sniveling liberal fascist larvae as they play a soccer game in which you decree there be no losers!

sarge said...

"Whereas the Ruger Mini 14, which fires the same ammo as the AR-15 and represents an identical capability in terms of actual firepower ."

sarge here fuckin mini 14 is a verticle stringin piece o crap an under sustained fire thar wood furniture will burn just like a cheap wasr ak so yar argument is frikin irrelvant

John Richardson said...

Which is more dangerous to your health - a Lab mix (or even a pit bull) or smoking and caffeine?

holdfast said...

@mc

Thanks - I know what I am asking for for Christmas this year!

Maybe they banned the folding stock ones because the A-Team used them?

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mc said...

Holdfast, it was the A-team weapon wasn't it?

I just picked up a used little .17 hmr and was pleased when keeping an eye peeled for ammo that Dick's sporting goods still sells guns whereas I think Sports Authority has stopped.

Walmart sells ammo and sometimes guns sometimes not.

Played with the little puppies again today and I just don't get banning a breed. This typically from Liberals that treat folks on the other side of the planet as incapable of civility but who would throw you in jail for suggesting a breed of human have proclivities of any sort. For even suggesting that repeat felons be regarded differently than others.

Poor pooches dangit, I have seen how they raise them for fighting in bad neighborhoods. Between those that desire them for ferocity and those that feel they can outlaw ferocity reasonable people and dogs alike are bound to lose.

Sigh...