April 12, 2011

The chocolate milk controversy.

Some people think schools shouldn't give kids chocolate milk, but what if it's the only way to get them to drink milk?

Stupidest compromise: Change the sweetener in the chocolate milk from fructose to sucrose.

Additional, non-milk-related controversy:
Jostled by the new politics of school lunch, Fairfax officials have vacillated over other staples. This year, for example, they removed salt from pretzels, but weeks later they were coaxed into putting it back.
You can't remove salt from pretzels. The saltless thing is not a pretzel. It's like serving "regular" milk and calling it chocolate milk.

45 comments:

shoutingthomas said...

How things change when you become an Old Fart!

When my kids were young, I was interested in the perfection of child rearing techniques, which included no TV, health food, etc. I wanted the schools to spend more money, hire more teachers, etc.

Now that I'm an Old Fart, well, what's the big deal? The way my dad raised me is just fine and doesn't need any improvement. Tater tots and white bread are fine. And, I vote against the school bond referendums because my taxes will go up.

Scott M said...

How about - GASP - they just let each local school district vote on it?

Oh, right...citizens are inconvenient.

TWM said...

"How things change when you become an Old Fart!

When my kids were young, I was interested in the perfection of child rearing techniques, which included no TV, health food, etc. I wanted the schools to spend more money, hire more teachers, etc.

Now that I'm an Old Fart, well, what's the big deal? The way my dad raised me is just fine and doesn't need any improvement. Tater tots and white bread are fine. And, I vote against the school bond referendums because my taxes will go up."


Funny, I have a child in the 9th Grade and I don't want any of the things you mention in your first paragraph. I want better teachers, not more, I want them to let me choose what my child eats, not them, and I want the tax money I already pay to be used for things that actually help my child succeed (math and science) instead of these moronic feel good programs they love to push on them now.

kimsch said...

Last night at our Scouts Round Table we were talking about food for camping. One of the ideas shown was mixing a package of Kool-Aid (the kind you add sugar to) into 2 quarts of milk instead of water. Then add sugar slowly because you probably won't need nearly the amount called for on the package. This makes "strawberry" or "grape" or "fruit punch" milk. It gets the milk into the kids.

wv: slownies

prairie wind said...

Here's my idea. Every time schools ask for more money, we give them less. Maybe they would stop asking, and start making better decisions about how to spend the money they have.

When I was little, the school cafeteria only plain milk. I took Nesquik chocolate milk mix to school in a pill bottle. Made my own chocolate milk. How hard is that? Parents argue about stupid stuff sometimes.

Skyler said...

Another example of why public schools should be abolished. The more centralized and mandatory the system, the more people feel a desire to control it.

aberman said...

The whole claim that kids need to drink milk is--itself--completely bogus. Let them drink water and be done with it.

TMink said...

How about schools concentrate on teaching little Johnny to read. Once they can reliably accomplish that by the third grade, we can talk about lunch.

But not before they demonstrate minimal competence in an area in which they were actually trained would we deem to consider their suggestions on topics in which they are untrained.

Trey

The Drill SGT said...

But not before they demonstrate minimal competence in an area in which they were actually trained would we deem to consider their suggestions on topics in which they are untrained.

Trey


Fixed:

But not before they demonstrate minimal competence in an area in which they were allegedly trained would we deem to consider their suggestions on topics in which they are untrained.

dbp said...

I think the difference in calories between white mile and chocolate milk is fairly slight.

With all the sugar and chocolate flavoring, less fat is needed to make it palatable.

Jennifer said...

Not only have they pulled chocolate milk in a lot of schools, but - despite having attended three different American public schools in two different countries in the last year - my son has yet to encounter a school that doesn't force him to take the regular milk on the rare occasion he buys school lunch. He doesn't drink milk, which I have no problem with. But, apparently the school does. So, he takes it and he throws it away. Really, WTF!?

AJ Lynch said...

God forbid that the schools would focus their energies on their job of teaching kids.

MadisonMan said...

The best chocolate milk I have ever drunk, from this place, uses cane sugar, not HFCS. So I'm kinda glad they've switched vendors and are using something made with non-corn sweeteners. And I say that as an absentee landlord for a corn farm.

At least they're not serving strawberry milk. That stuff is nasty.

This quote jumped out at me from the article: “If we want to fix childhood obesity, chocolate milk is just one of the things we need to get rid of,” said Jeff Anderson, a parent of three students at Wolftrap Elementary in Vienna and a member of Real Food for Kids, a Fairfax area advocacy group. “It’s a treat, not something you have every day with lunch.”

I wonder if he drives his kids to school, or if they have a video game console. If he's trying to control my kids' diets, the least I can do is try to control his kids' activities.

Scott M said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

God forbid that the schools would focus their energies on their job of teaching kids.

Their pat answer to that statement, once they regain consciousness after having heard "God" mentioned, is that hungry, malnourished kids can't learn. By this, they're referring, of course, to second-graders learning how to put a condom on a banana.

TMink said...

The Chicago school system has a 45% drop out rate for 9th graders. These folks have nothing to say to us while almost half of their high school kids drop out.

Get back to me after you can run your own house.

Trey

The Crack Emcee said...

Hey - I've got an idea:

Why doesn't everybody go back to minding his own freaking business?

Yeah, why, I think that just might work,...!

The Drill SGT said...

My school 50 years ago offered chocolate milk. I like the regular stuff, but what's with warm milk?

schools would get more sales for reglar milk if it was really cold.

MadisonMan said...

I still recall when milk (white or chocolate, very very cold) went from 5 cents to 6 cents in 7th grade. And that the school then complained about a lack of pennies.

Marilee said...

I'm with Crack on this. It would be one thing if this was just about chocolate milk. It's not. The president on down to school administration have the mistaken idea that the government and the schools should be responsible for child rearing. Bullshit. Raise your own damn kids. If you need help, it's there. If you're not ready to take care of a child, keep your legs together and your pants zipped up.

peter hoh said...

I'll have to weigh in on the pretzel part of this.

I love pretzels. I really miss the wide variety available in a Pennsylvania grocery store. At least we can get Snyder's in Minnesota -- but it wasn't that way when we moved here.

Yes, salt is a necessary part of a pretzel, but there are some pretzels that have a ridiculous amount of salt on the outside.

Let's compare the two bags of pretzels in my kitchen.

My beloved Snyder's Sourdough Hard Pretzels have 240 mg of sodium per ounce. The Old Dutch pretzel sticks have 370 mg of sodium per ounce.

But I didn't need to look at the label to know that the pretzel sticks are too salty. When I am stuck with the sticks, I find that I have to knock off most of the surface salt in order to make them tolerable.

Scott M said...

Why doesn't everybody go back to minding his own freaking business?

Because, apparently, it takes an Orwellian village.

Issob Morocco said...

It is not the "what" that is providing the calories but the 'amount' of calories that matters.

Stupid bureaucrats, following stupid politicians, who are telling our citizens they are too stupid to understand this fallacy.

Stop this madness.

edutcher said...

How about the schools keep their noses out of the kids' diets and worry about education?

TWM is right; most teachers today are from the bottom of the academic barrel (remember the signs brought to us by ANN and New Meadia Meade?). When they can produce kids that can read, write, spell, do basic math without a calculator, know when the Civil War was fought, by whom, and who won (and I don't mean the Howard Zinn/Jesse Jackson version), and can give a reasonable account of things like photosynthesis and internal combustion, then let the "educators" worry about other things.

Scott M said...

Why doesn't everybody go back to minding his own freaking business?

Because, apparently, it takes an Orwellian village.


Indoctrinating kids to be good, obedient little automatons is an all-encompassing job.

Ann Althouse said...

You can't remove salt from pretzels. The saltless thing is not a pretzel.

Of course you can. Remember when you'd get soft pretzels and just brush the salt from them?

The hard ones it's a little more difficult.

(and they do make saltless pretzels now)

Scott M said...

know when the Civil War was fought, by whom, and who won (and I don't mean the Howard Zinn/Jesse Jackson version)

Hot-button issue for me, a Civil War grognard. My nephew, 10, was being taught that between 600,000-700,000 American men and women had died during the Civil War. If you don't know what's wrong with that "fact", you might be a public school teacher.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

(and they do make saltless pretzels now)

And you can't make eat them either!! Pretzels without salt are weak bagels or boiled bread.

I still mourn for Mr. Salty.

Re: milk in school.

I was turned off forever from drinking milk when I was FORCED to drink warm clotted milk with waxey gobs from a soggy paper carton in elementary school.

MadisonMan said...

@Peter: Snyder's of Berlin, or Snyder's of Hanover?

DBQ, Mr. Salty is still sold, if my quick search via google is any indication.

rsb said...

I paid 2 cents for extra chocolate milk on Wednesday's - Chocolate Milk Day - Banning this from schools is unpatriotic and blasphemous.

edutcher said...

Scott M said...

know when the Civil War was fought, by whom, and who won (and I don't mean the Howard Zinn/Jesse Jackson version)

Hot-button issue for me, a Civil War grognard. My nephew, 10, was being taught that between 600,000-700,000 American men and women had died during the Civil War. If you don't know what's wrong with that "fact", you might be a public school teacher.


We must be inclusive.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

DBQ, Mr. Salty is still sold, if my quick search via google is any indication

They only seem to make chocolate covered pretzels any more. BLECH!!

I want the kind that used to come in a box and were delicious. Just the right amount of crunchy salt with the sweetness of the pretzel body.

Ah well.

This is why I make my own soft pretzels and cook my own food. I can put whatever the Hell I want in it.

Scott M said...

We must be inclusive.

I'm willing to bet more horses died than women in the Civil War.

edutcher said...

Scott M said...

We must be inclusive.

I'm willing to bet more horses died than women in the Civil War.


Even if you count the New Ulm Uprising in 1862 and the beginning of the Apache and Cheyenne wars, you're probably right.

JohnnyT1948 said...

...but it would be truth in packaging if it was called "Chocolateless Chocolate Milk." Maybe they could use food coloring?

Shanna said...

When I am stuck with the sticks, I find that I have to knock off most of the surface salt in order to make them tolerable.

I had a roommate that used to eat salt bagels. I found them inedible, but then I have a low tolerance for salt. I hate salted chips at the Mexican Restaurant too. I blame this on my mother’s purchase and use of “low salt salt” throughout my childhood.

Why do they force kids to take milk? Aren't a lot of them lactose intolerant? Seems a waste.

bil_d said...

As a competitve athlete for over 25 years I can tell you from direct experience that chocolate milk, and especially skim chocolate milk, is one of the best recovery drinks out there for the money...

Scott M said...

can tell you from direct experience that chocolate milk, and especially skim chocolate milk, is one of the best recovery drinks out there for the money...

Better than rdbl?

Paul said...

They need to keep their cotten pick'en hands off my COCO!

Us blackbelt karate gunfighters need their coco and snickers while whatching 'The next 48' (and yes I do watch it.)

Let Obama and Co. drink this chocolate milk abomination and eat saltless prezels if he loves them that much.

The Grand Inquisitor said...

It's much more important to learn how to choose moderation, than to be nannied out of any possible choices.

If a school meal can't include a little salt and chocolate at all without being healthy, I'm the easter bunny. The problem is too many pricks are trying to run the show by freaking out about this or that. Everyone wants to be the ultimate nanny, so we eventually wind up at an extreme: no student freedom, no choice, no parent control, no food that resembles food, and ultimately, kids who have no freaking idea how to handle this problem as adults.

In fact, I bet the pricks screwing these kids over didn't have enough freedom as kids.

For God's sake, kids should be able to burn off a lot of candy.

peter hoh said...

MadisonMan, Snyder's of Hanover.

Last time I was in Philly, my aunt introduced me to "splits." Tasty.

JAL said...

How about they offer a CHOICE?

Seems "choice" is only good for killing unborn people.

If people are smart enough to know when it is all right for them to end a human life (it's their body, after all), then surely choosing white or chocolate milk ought to be on the table.

(Who am I trying to kid?)

Lori said...

Ok, I was one of the moms that called the Fairfax nutritionist at the beginning of the school year. My question to her was, when had this been decided, what was the process? I didn't remember the school community being asked what they thought of chocolate milk being served or not.

She said "a lot" of parents were asking for it to be removed. So, now I know who to thank, the busybody gentleman in the article who thinks my kid shouldn't have a treat at lunch. Fact is, small pittances like a swig of chocolate milk help my son get through the day (that along with recess.) It's only 8 ounces for goodness sake!!

I would like to know how they think any kid can gain weight on the school lunch portions. They serve the same amount to the kindergarteners as to my 5’5”, 130 lb. sixth-grader. It's obvious that obesity begins at home with overeating and not enough playing.

My son’s latest complaint is that they have removed pepperoni pizza from the Friday offering, in favor of a "veggie" pizza. He says, correctly, the cheese pizza offered is already a veggie pizza! Ah, but apparently the war has now spread to dreaded pepperoni slices, which I calculate would be about 4-6 waifer-thin slices per piece of pizza. Oh the horror!

I guess in a step less draconian than Chicago’s, this school bans kids from trading food at lunch. Not to worry, though: my kid says they still trade, just “under the table.” So they are making black market criminals out of kids wanting to trade a bag of chips for a pudding cup.

Actually, the food issue has been a great lesson in too much government. The kids know, less government = more freedom.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Actually, the food issue has been a great lesson in too much government. The kids know, less government = more freedom.

Another great lesson on government could be that:

The students organize into an official group. Maybe even call it a Union. Hey....they could collect money from all the students to fund a gigantic protest!

Demand to have collective bargaining with the Administration and make demands for Chocolate Milk, Pepperoni Pizza, salted vegetables and the God given right to bring home made lunches.

WHEN negotiations break down, the students need to have days and weeks of protests.

March around the campus chanting, screaming and waving signs and ugly puppets of the oppressors.

Plaster the place with signs and tape that will peel the paint and stucco off of the buildings.

Do a drum circle, those are always effective.

Rush the Vice Principals office and break down the doors.

Sleep in the hallways.

Find out where the staff of the school lives and picket their houses. Threaten their babysitters and gardeners if they continue to work for the teachers.

This is what Democracy...or something....looks like!!!! Rwaaaaar!!!!

David said...

One of my daughters would eat nothing but chocolate milk and baked (or mashed) potatoes for lunch and dinner when she was quite young. At breakfast she would eat all the standard breakfast foods.

We battled with her for a while but eventually gave in and fed her chocolate milk and potatoes. This seemed to go on for an eternity.

She finally went back to more balanced fare. She grew up to be healthy, strong and quite willful.

I think she will be having her own children soon and we will see how that goes.

David said...

"schools would get more sales for reglar milk if it was really cold."

Yes! The milk at Aspinwall grade school made me want to throw up. I refused to drink it. No one seemed to be worried about that.

Quaestor said...

We must be inclusive

You forgot the hermaphrodites.

I trace the fall of American public education to the rise of education as a profession. There was a time when a teacher was expected to the know the material itself, backwards and forwards, while technique was secondary -- something mostly left to the teacher himself to develop over time in a manner agreeable with his personality. Now its all technique -- and half-assed developmental psychology --- and maneuvering through the bureaucracy. They think if you apply the technique to the text then the students will learn if they're in the same room.