March 1, 2011

"Unlike probably everyone else watching Charlie Sheen these days, we think this 'train wreck' (as some are calling it) is probably the best we've seen him..."

"... and (having mutual friends) we applaud him mightily for it. He looks and sounds more like his father than ever. His nothing-can-take-me-down attitude, in the face of this wimpy, middle class, wet rag nanny state finger-wagging opinion is winning. This is a man, owning his actions and insisting everyone else come clean and take responsibility for theirs as well.... [A]ll too often, we see too many powerful beta males in this country... We've become a cautious, conformist, inoffensive, non-risk taking, arrogant, lying bunch of NewAge pussies who think if any woman... says she or others don't approve, then some form of public contrition and apology is called for. Well, screw that. Neither she, or the public, are Charlie Sheen's mother and even if his parents disapprove, he's a grown-assed man who refuses to be a part of whatever milquetoast existence the rest of you think is good for gaining social approval from a worthless feminized culture-killing clique. He didn't ask for it, doesn't need it, and isn't angling for it. He's a man. He's rich. And he's free."

That's Crack Emcee, taking a macho look at Charlie Sheen.

It's funny, I was just saying to Meade that people don't rant against "conformity" anymore — not like they did in the 50s and 60s. What got me going wasn't Charlie Sheen. It was my Bloggingheads with Timothy Noah, which, for various reasons, made me think about the way liberals, including liberal media folk, talk to each other and feel emotional rewards for saying what they all say back and forth to each other. They become so immersed in this feeling of belonging that they don't even hear the things that are not the things that they've been saying back and forth to each other. And my question is: Why does that feel so good? Why doesn't that immersion feel like drowning? Why don't you want to surface into the air and be free — to think about everything, from any perspective, and to find out for yourself what is true and what is good? You are a human individual: Don't you want that?

302 comments:

1 – 200 of 302   Newer›   Newest»
Quayle said...

They become so immersed in this feeling of belonging that they don't even hear the things that are not the things that they've been saying back and forth to each other. And my question is: Why does that feel so good? Why doesn't that immersion feel like drowning?

And why are so many elite college students and college age kids unquestioningly following along?

Fen said...

Nicely done Crack. I think I'm starting to get it re Sheen.

Scott M said...

I call bullshit on Sheen's "the average mind cannot comprehend me" bullshit. I'm a Charlie Sheen fan and the Hot Shots movies are definitely a guilty pleasure. This sitcom he's doing, existing completely on bullshit male stereotypes, is another thing and I don't watch, but I'm still a fan of the guy that told a judge that he didn't pay prostitutes for sex...he paid them to leave afterward.

That being said, my take on his downward spiral is the things that he is starting to say publicly about himself sound an awful lot like what Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold said about themselves just before they tried to take out their entire high school at Columbine.

Anyone else think that bodes well?

AJ Lynch said...

Cause Americans are pussified. Does Blogginheads have even one male who has not been pussified?

I loved seeing Sheen taking no crap and being outrageously honest. He was refreshingly crazy.

Paddy O said...

"Why don't you want to surface into the air and be free — to think about everything, from any perspective, and to find out for yourself what is true and what is good?"

The pay is generally pretty bad. Hard to get married, raise a family, pay a mortgage, fund retirement with that attitude. Conformity implies acceptance, and acceptance suggests security.

As for me, though... "My desire for knowledge is intermittent; but my desire to commune with the spirit of the universe, to be intoxicated even with the fumes, call it, of that divine nectar, to bear my head through atmospheres and over heights unknown to my feet, is perennial and constant."

Joaquin said...

It's a huge Liberal cicle-jerk. Go to any Liberal blog and post some slightly, reasonable opposition and BAM, you're banned.
BLIND MICE LEADING BLIND MICE.

LakeLevel said...

Very well put Ann. "Think for yourself" used to be a standard liberal line. It is very difficult nowadays to find an open minded liberal. They are difficult to find because they usually have become conservative.

Joaquin said...

cicle = circle.
But, you knew that...........

I'm a Shaaaaark said...

I suppose if I was rich, famous, and didn't have a woman I loved more than anything at home, I'd probably spend as many weekends as I could doing coke off of a couple of strippers' asses, too.

Seriously, I'm not seeing why Charlie Sheen is even news - based on what I've been seeing and hearing the past few decades, we are not supposed to judge people on their personal choices, and certainly not about anything they do in the bedroom.

Unless I'm missing something?

TWM said...

I saw Sheen on some talk show with some British guy last night (I know I am supposed to know who the chap is, but I don't), and I have to say Sheen was fantastic. Of course, he's in total denial about his drug and alcohol issues, but damn you have to give the guy credit for telling the nannies to fuck off.

Robert Cook said...

"They become so immersed in this feeling of belonging that they don't even hear the things that are not the things that they've been saying back and forth to each other. And my question is: Why does that feel so good? Why doesn't that immersion feel like drowning?"

This is a truism of human beings generally, and is not limited to any one affinity group.

Look at this blog's commenters, for example.

Fen said...

Very well put Ann. "Think for yourself" used to be a standard liberal line.

Yup. Does anyone remember back when liberals would trot out the line "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

And they actually meant it.

AprilApple said...

I don't care about Sheen or CBS.
My only problem with Mr. Sheen is that he is a father himself. I don't hear anyone talking about Sheen's children. I suppose all that money shields Sheen from the responsibilities of fatherhood.

Paddy O said...

Personally, though, I think Sheen is just wanting out of his contract and is tired of the show.

He is the very image of conformity in his professional choices, so has to act out in his life to somehow justify his self-image.

His legacy, what future generations will know him for, is his safe, vaguely amusing cliche-ridden, participation in a half hour symbol of American blandness. Charlie Sheen, Movie Star and Party Man, will be best known for his work in a 8 year, highly conformed, milquetoast, family sitcom.

Other 46 year old men are too busy acting like men.

Sheen is just a dandy putting on costumes and playing games, talking tough to people in bars and in Hollywood parties about what an independent voice he is. But he's not. Not at all. He's the biggest conformist to the Hollywood scene around.

But, at least he's honest about it. That's a point in his favor.

traditionalguy said...

Amen, Crack. You said it all.

Dose of Sanity said...

Ann, I'm concerned that you assume that Liberals are not thinking for themselves? What if we are and are coming to the same conclusions? (As presumably, conservatives are doing on their issues?)

Re Sheen: I listened to his interviews. He's either actually still on crack or in an extreme manic state. I don't say that in a demeaning fashion, that man needs help. Blood of adonis indeed.

TWM said...

"I suppose all that money shields Sheen from the responsibilities of fatherhood."

Eh, if you're looking for good parenting in Hollywood you're looking in the wrong place. Even the good parents there leave most of the work to nannies or other caretakers so the chances of an kid surviving all that crap undamaged are about a good as they are for an animated comedy winning an Oscar.

Amy said...

I heard him say he has tiger blood and Adonis DNA. What's not to love?

AprilApple said...

"Why don't you want to surface into the air and be free — to think about everything, from any perspective, and to find out for yourself what is true and what is good? You are a human individual: Don't you want that?"

No. The left adhere to blind faith grievances, emotions, and group-think. They think the air up there is poisoned. It is much safer huddled down with the popular kids and the group-think.

virgil xenophon said...

In earlier, pre-PC times (in England, at least) Sheen would have been merely labeled as "eccentric."

Drew said...

It's funny, I was just saying to Meade that people don't rant against "conformity" anymore — not like they did in the 50s and 60s.

Is it because to rant against conformity these days is to take a conservative view? Leftism is conformity.


(This is particularly true of "Greenism," where if you dare suggest that we're not in danger of global catastrophe due to anthopogenic climate change, you become persona non grata. A "denier.")

Dose of Sanity said...

Speaking of not thinking for ourselves, you are trying to defend a crack addict as a free-think now?

Hard to believe this. Anyone actually listen to these interviews?

Paddy O said...

""Sienkiewicz, in one of his novels, compares the spiritual life to swimming; for the man who does not strive tirelessly, who does not fight continually against sinking, will mentally and morally go under. In this strait a man’s talent (again in the biblical sense) becomes a curse–and not only the talent of the artist, but also of those who eat this poisoned food.

The artist uses his strength to flatter his lower needs; in an ostensibly artistic form he presents what is impure, draws the weaker elements to him, mixes them with evil, betrays men and helps them to betray themselves, while they convince themselves and others that they are spiritually thirsty, and that from this pure spring they may quench their thirst.

Such art does not help the forward movement, but hinders it, dragging back those who are striving to press onward, and spreading pestilence abroad. Such periods, during which art has no noble champion, during which the true spiritual food is wanting, are periods of retrogression in the spiritual world. Ceaselessly souls fall from the higher to the lower segments of the triangle, and the whole seems motionless, or even to move down and backwards.

Men attribute to these blind and dumb periods a special value, for they judge them by outward results, thinking only of material well-being. They hail some technical advance, which can help nothing but the body, as a great achievement.

Real spiritual gains are at best under-valued, at worst entirely ignored. The solitary visionaries are despised or regarded as abnormal and eccentric. Those who are not wrapped in lethargy and who feel vague longings for spiritual life and knowledge and progress, cry in harsh chorus, without any to comfort them. The night of the spirit falls more and more darkly.

Deeper becomes the misery of these blind and terrified guides, and their followers, tormented and unnerved by fear and doubt, prefer to this gradual darkening the final sudden leap into the blackness.

At such a time art ministers to lower needs, and is used for material ends. She seeks her substance in hard realities because she knows of nothing nobler."

~Wassily Kandinsky

Drew said...

Does anyone remember back when liberals would trot out the line "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

And they actually meant it.


No, I don't. And I'm 45.

chr1 said...

I don't think Charlie Sheen is much of an example for bold open-mindedness, so much as a drug-addled train wreck saying an occasional true thing.

Christian teaching puts the man at the head of the household for many good reasons. Many of these reasons are debatable, as well as the existence of God, but the drivers of the new changes clearly have not thought through the logic of the change they want.

Just a few examples of men without fathers or men with bad, often absent fathers that come to mind:

Charlie Sheen, Obama, Bill Clinton...

Maybe there's something there, maybe not. Ann's still dealing with the benefits of feminism (getting into law school) with the rigid ideology, conformity, and continental theory group think (patriarchy) of feminism driving change.

I suspect feeling (groping?) Noah moves through his world of women at Slate for the sake of his political and ideological prefernces (Slate does tolerate Hitchens though).

AprilApple said...

His sit-com is about dysfunction, booze, easy Hollywood money, hiring prostitutes, sex, masturbation, and fart jokes. Good family fun.

Henry said...

Does anyone remember back when liberals would trot out the line "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

Perhaps liberals said it, but very few individuals believed it. Just like today.

Scott M said...

Leftism is conformity.

Before anyone debates that claim, remember that collectivism is a leftist tenet.

Dose of Sanity said...

Perhaps liberals said it, but very few individuals believed it. Just like today.

Some of us do.

ricpic said...

Cookie observes all from on high and from that olympian height dispenses his sad but forgiving verdict on humanity: it is unaware.

madAsHell said...

He's wrestling with the testosterone, and losing.

"the average mind cannot comprehend me"..This is the mind of a 12 year old shortly after the onset of puberty.

Now, why at 45 is he still wrestling with the testosterone?

Why is he blathering gibberish?

Why does he attempt to respond to EVERY question?

Why is he paying for women 20 years his junior? (Not that I disapprove...but an older woman would be a lot cheaper, and likely be more fun.)

I'll guess that he is attempting to turn-back-the-clock. He's got Michael Jackson's physician loading him with testosterone, and he is self-prescribing street opiates.

Didn't Peter Sellers try this?

former law student said...

They become so immersed in this feeling of belonging that they don't even hear the things that are not the things that they've been saying back and forth to each other.

The rosy glow that envelopes Limbaugh and his dittoheads?

Scott M said...

The rosy glow that envelopes Limbaugh and his dittoheads?

As if Mike Malloy and his fans share something different?

MadisonMan said...

Would I be proud of my kid for Sheen's type of behavior?

That's one benchmark I use to judge celebritney behavior.

former law student said...

Mike Malloy and his fans

As the failure of Air America showed, damn few liberals need to have their values validated by talk show hosts.

The Crack Emcee said...

ScottM,

I call bullshit on Sheen's "the average mind cannot comprehend me" bullshit,...my take on his downward spiral is the things that he is starting to say publicly about himself sound an awful lot like what Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold said about themselves just before they tried to take out their entire high school at Columbine.

Anyone else think that bodes well?


Two things:

1) They were kids and didn't know how to deal with cliquishness/cultism/peer pressure.

2) Sheen's "the average mind cannot comprehend me" rants make sense in the proper (cult) context. Ignore that and you miss the meat of the social debate.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)




I believe the catch phrase is, “Cocaine’s a Helluva drug….” Crack I see no reason to celebrate Sheen, UNLESS you believe a public melt-down, fueled by a Bi-Polar Disorder and Cocaine is somehow praise worthy…He’s incoherent and foolish…setting an awful example for his children…unemploying dozens of fellow actors and Hollywood workers….tell me how is this “praiseworthy?”

I can go down to the Salvation Army in my town and hear this cr@p from crack heads all the time…am I to praise THEM, too?

dbp said...

Drew said:

Is it because to rant against conformity these days is to take a conservative view? Leftism is conformity.

Yes, exactly!

As for dittoheads, even the most devout knows that listening to Limbaugh is subversive. Liberals don't need validation from talk radio--they are surrounded by it and are never exposed to anything they don't already agree with.

Widmerpool said...

Ann,

Your comment is one of the reasons I find Mickey Kaus interesting to read. He's honest enough to point out from time to time that although your typical lib like Bob Wright thinks of himself as his comrades as the rightful heirs of that 60's spirit, in many ways (as you point out) they have deeply betrayed it. Laughable at times that they see themselves as cutting edge, nonconformist, transgressive and similar bullshit.

Henry said...

They become so immersed in this feeling of belonging that they don't even hear the things that are not the things that they've been saying back and forth to each other. And my question is: Why does that feel so good? Why doesn't that immersion feel like drowning?

Ever read the comments to a New York Times article? Oy veh.

Clearly their wide net pulls in more tonnage than the narrow net of Althouse, but the ignorant self-assurance of the liberal krill is discouraging (as is, I will say, most of the ignorant pushback).

At least a Stanley Fish column generates antagonistic comments. A Paul Krugman column generates sycophantic agreement. And then some sub-editor finds the most sycophantic agreements and highlights them.

pstukel said...

Careful there, Crack. I'm all for the "de-Oprahfication" of America, a world in which one does something stupid, waits a couple of weeks and then goes on Oprah or Dr. Phil to make a weepy apology in order to get "back in the game." But holding up Sheen as some sort of uber-mensch or example of a "new masculinity" is just nuts. He's a spoiled, petulant, self-absorbed punk. Full stop. If that's what "being a man" is, count me out. He is "free" in the sense that an infant is "free" - free from self-restraint, free from responsibility and free from basic humanity. Non-conformist? Feh. Try juvenile.

Scott M said...

1) They were kids and didn't know how to deal with cliquishness/cultism/peer pressure.

About how large, Crack, would you say the population of "kids" is that don't attempt mass murder? Even controlling for social-economic similarities, it's massive. So...how were all of those other kids, who face cliques and peer pressure daily, able to cope without gunfire?

SGT Ted said...

Well, history shows that leftist revolutions are always about conforming to their vision of humanity and if you don't agree with that vision, they will lock you up or kill you if they can get away with it.

Scott M said...

As the failure of Air America showed

He's still on the air and the last time I listened, he's still taking as many calls as he ever did. Air America's failure was due to their inability to generate revenue, period.

Freder Frederson said...

As for dittoheads, even the most devout knows that listening to Limbaugh is subversive.

I don't think "subversive" means what you think it means. Listening to the highest rated talk radio program in the U.S. hosted by a man who makes $50 million a year (just from the radio show) is hardly subversive. In fact it is the antithesis of subversive.

traditionalguy said...

To me Sheen seems quite sane and very personable. When an interviewer talks to him, Sheen listens and then responds in an intelligent way that does not demand folks believe in stories. In fact he wars against the stories interview controllers are trying to weave around his life. In some sense he is like Sarah Palin who communicates his/her own attractive personality and wars against Media's built in assumptions that he/she is some other weird form of life. That Sheen and Palin stand any chance against a CBS or a Karl Rove/Bush Family operation today is the most important change that I have witnessed in the new internet time and season. And also see, the poor slaves in Egypt and Libya who suddenly also stand a good chance now against a Mubarack and a Ghadaffi operation. These are interesting times.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Of course, he's in total denial about his drug and alcohol issues, but damn you have to give the guy credit for telling the nannies to fuck off.

Actually, I don't think he is in denial at all.

Sheen knows that he is abusing alcohol and drugs and his attitude is...."Yeah??.....So fucking What?"

It's his life, his body.

I've seen many people destroy themselves with alcohol and drugs. There but for the Grace of God so go I. The abyss is very luring. I just hope that Sheen can pull himself back in time. But if he doesn't.....it was his choice.

Fen said...

Freder: Listening to the highest rated talk radio program in the U.S. hosted by a man who makes $50 million a year (just from the radio show) is hardly subversive. In fact it is the antithesis of subversive.

Because Rush is The Empire and ABC CBS NBC CNN MSNBC NPR NYTs WaPo AP and LA Times are the beleaguered Rebel Forces, eh Obi-Wan?

Scott M said...

And also see, the poor slaves in Egypt and Libya who suddenly also stand a good chance now against a Mubarack and a Ghadaffi operation.

Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses...not some farcical aquatic ceremony. It just took these guys this long to figure that out. Most of today's tinpots don't have the sort of power it takes to keep a literally oppressed people down for very long in the face of today's realities.

The Crack Emcee said...

Joe (The Crypto Jew),

I believe the catch phrase is, “Cocaine’s a Helluva drug….” Crack I see no reason to celebrate Sheen, UNLESS you believe a public melt-down, fueled by a Bi-Polar Disorder and Cocaine is somehow praise worthy…He’s incoherent and foolish…setting an awful example for his children…unemploying dozens of fellow actors and Hollywood workers….tell me how is this “praiseworthy?”

I can go down to the Salvation Army in my town and hear this cr@p from crack heads all the time…am I to praise THEM, too?


pstukel

Holding up Sheen as some sort of uber-mensch or example of a "new masculinity" is just nuts. He's a spoiled, petulant, self-absorbed punk. Full stop. If that's what "being a man" is, count me out. He is "free" in the sense that an infant is "free" - free from self-restraint, free from responsibility and free from basic humanity. Non-conformist? Feh. Try juvenile.

As I said in my post, Sheen and I have mutual friends - namely some of the hookers he's used - so I know this is hardly something new behavior for him, which makes all this "melt-down" talk seem silly. This, Ladies and Gentlemen, is Charlie Sheen. And his reaction to AA is the same one I would have - to run, and rant, and rail that it's a cult, and a cult society is trying to make me go, and it's wrong for this society to conform around cult ideas and ideals when we're Americans, supposedly a free people, who have been assaulted for decades by Charlie Manson-influenced hippidom.

He's hardly "incoherent and foolish" - if this society was firing with all cylinders, I'd say fine, but we're a society that's lost our way, regarding the basics - including what's what and who's who and even simple things that are good - like being "A Man" (which, if you ask me, is both simple and good) have been twisted around into something that can be manipulated as something complex and bad while undeserving beta males walk away with the money and fame for enforcing conformity to whatever cultist ideal is popular next.

And it's no wonder the all go cry to Oprah, is it?

NewAge cult bitch.

iftheshoefits said...

"As the failure of Air America showed, damn few liberals need to have their values validated by talk show hosts."

Or maybe it's hard to make a profit doing something on the open market, where the government has already flooded the zone with NPR...

bagoh20 said...

I just wanna say:

LEAVE CHARLEY ALOOOOOOOONE!

If I wasn't so lazy, I could get millions of hits on You tube! With some eye liner and that.

Dose of Sanity said...

Supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses...not some farcical aquatic ceremony. It just took these guys this long to figure that out. Most of today's tinpots don't have the sort of power it takes to keep a literally oppressed people down for very long in the face of today's realities.

I may not agree with you on things, but +1 for the Holy Grail quote.

The Crack Emcee said...

ScottM,

About how large, Crack, would you say the population of "kids" is that don't attempt mass murder? Even controlling for social-economic similarities, it's massive. So...how were all of those other kids, who face cliques and peer pressure daily, able to cope without gunfire?

Scott, that's a whole different topic. My only point is they were kids. Hardly comparable to a wildly rich, well-known and popular celebrity.

Or are there a rash of those types going on killing sprees?

Alcuria said...

Watched a little bit of the ABC interview. Why does his face appear flushed?

Whatever happens, he's in charge, so to speak. I certainly don't think he wants people's pity. He'll live life the way he wants to.

k*thy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Another thought, along with what Crack wrote, is that risk takers who go onto the playing field of public discourse and win through speaking an intelligent message and then enduring many subtle and directly slanderous counter-attacks, are the ones we admire.

Scott M said...

@Crack

Scott, that's a whole different topic. My only point is they were kids.

No, there was an "and" in your sentence that furthered your point to include cliquishness/cults/peer pressure. My statement was that most, nearly all, kids faced with the same problems do not deal with it by blowing people away.

The link to Sheen is that they made similar statements on their pre-massacre videos. Claiming higher status on the evolutionary chain, the inability of others, lower, to comprehend them. That's the link I was making in my first post.

Am I saying Sheen is going to go take out a bunch of people? Not exactly, but I'm not ruling it.

Scott M said...

ruling it out...d'oh

Maguro said...

Eh, if I'm going to admire a celebrity with a dissolute lifestyle, it's going to be Keith Richards, not some lame sitcom star.

SteveR said...

Do not care about Charlie Sheen in any way, for any reason.

bagoh20 said...

I, for one, welcome my beta male overlords.

If back in the day, the world was ruled by beta males, would they have made eunuchs to care for the harem?

Freder Frederson said...

Or are there a rash of those types going on killing sprees?

Well, you've got Phil Spector, O.J., Robert Blake, and the whole East Coast/West Coast rap war (Actually it goes back to the days of Fatty Arbuckle).

Money and a sense of entitlement seem to lead to a lot higher rate of violent crime than you would expect in the socio-economic class these celebrities occupy.

Next from Crack--how Lindsay Lohan is a real woman because she is willing to stand up to THE MAN.

Ann Althouse said...

"I'm still a fan of the guy that told a judge that he didn't pay prostitutes for sex...he paid them to leave afterward."

You're impressed by someone telling the oldest joke about prostitutes?

"The pay is generally pretty bad. Hard to get married, raise a family, pay a mortgage, fund retirement with that attitude. Conformity implies acceptance, and acceptance suggests security."

That's the kind of talk we laughed at in the 60s.

"Yup. Does anyone remember back when liberals would trot out the line "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it". And they actually meant it."

That's when they were liberals. The word has a meaning, lest we forget.

"Ann, I'm concerned that you assume that Liberals are not thinking for themselves? What if we are and are coming to the same conclusions? (As presumably, conservatives are doing on their issues?)"

What are the odds? The similarities are too great. There's no spice of individuality to the spew.

"Now, why at 45 is he still wrestling with the testosterone?"

By what age is your manly force supposed to have dissipated?

bagoh20 said...

One thing makes me incapable of processing the Sheen, and that's hangovers.

Otherwise, I would be Charley, and bathe in your daily admonitions to wash off the love crust.

Soon we will see who will tire first in this dance.

Scott M said...

You're impressed by someone telling the oldest joke about prostitutes?

No. I'm impressed he had the stones to say that to a judge in court.

Oligonicella said...

former law student --

As the failure of Air America showed, damn few liberals like to have their values validated by talk show hosts.

Sorry, had to correct that.

edutcher said...

The reason you saw ranting against conformity in the 50s and 60s is that the Lefties were doing the ranting. Conformity then was about being proud to be an American.

As Drew noted, the Lefties prize conformity above all else. They don't want anybody not conforming now that they set the standards.

Fen said...

Very well put Ann. "Think for yourself" used to be a standard liberal line.

Yup. Does anyone remember back when liberals would trot out the line "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

And they actually meant it.


I believe that was the 18th Century.

deborah said...

Beta males. Crack, are you of the cult of the Alpha male?

What's the ratio of alphas to betas?

If they are alphas, how is it that the betas are walking away with the rewards?

Are alpha and beta just a shorthand way to categorize people to fit your belief system?

Freder Frederson said...

What are the odds? The similarities are too great. There's no spice of individuality to the spew.

And you are claiming there is a spice of individuality in the conservative community? Can you imagine any liberal being proud to be called, if there were one, the equivalent of a "dittohead"?

phx said...

And it's good to be an original, a nonconformist, without being batshit crazy.

bagoh20 said...

"By what age is your manly force supposed to have dissipated?"

I'm not sure it does dissipate as much as get drained out of you by the betas and feminists with their endless tiny cuts, while always claiming to respect your freedom and be willing to "defend to the death."

Being a man is a lot about defending from the threats of the outsiders. When the attack is from within, men really are at a fundamental disadvantage and will lose if they don't leave. Many have left.

Ann, you know that "defend to the death thing was pure bullshit and just a rhetorical cover for - please don't hate me.

Shanna said...

If a man wants to spend his life on hookers and blow, I don’t really care in general, but I'm not exactly impressed by it either. Plus, the guy has kids. If you are going to waste your life on drugs, I think it's best not to have kids.

Scott M said...

And you are claiming there is a spice of individuality in the conservative community?

Does your brain act as a filter for your typing fingers, or do you just let fly with inanities like that?

Freder Frederson said...

As Drew noted, the Lefties prize conformity above all else. They don't want anybody not conforming now that they set the standards.

So real Americans (as you see them), if they are real Americans, should be railing against conformity.

Therefore, drinking, whoring, druggie, gambler Charlie Sheen (and the character he portrays on Two and a Half Men) must be the archetype American. At least I think that is what Crack, Ann and you are trying to say. . . .

Or something.

I'm so confused.

roesch-voltaire said...

David Carr has a different take on this: violence against women is okay in Hollywood, but not insulting your boss; that seems to fit. Thinking for himself; I think at this point its the drugs talking--nothing to be admired here, sorry Crack.

Beth said...

Mega dittos!

MayBee said...

Last night on Piers Morgan, Charlie was asked if he thought perhaps CBS had been wanting to get rid of him, and so took this opportunity as an excuse to do what they already wanted to do.

Charlie said he believed that would be too involved a conspiracy.

I laughed out loud, because Charlie Sheen is a Truther.

pbAndj said...

Sheen reminds me of folks I've known (and still know) who are cokeheads.

Blathering on, beyond this simple fact, is a fool's errand. And, exalting Sheen's coke-fiend ways is crushingly-obviously idiotic.

Presumably, the Sheen fans here don't know many snowbirds, hence your ignorance has misled you.

Pastafarian said...

Before some of you make this raging asshole Sheen your new libertarian hero, bear in mind that he's also a self-educated civil engineer who pronounced that the World Trade Center was a controlled demolition and 9-11 an inside job.

Put mice in a box and present them with an array of buttons, one of which gives them pleasure by direct brain stimulation. One of those mice, with particularly fluffy fur and pretentiously arched eyebrows, will sit there pounding on that fucking button until its little paw falls off. Then it will use its head to pound the button til it starves to death.

Yay, hero mouse.

Sheen runs around with his blistered, shriveled dick in one hand and a fistful of coke-contaminated c-notes in the other trying to find dumb 19-year-old girls to spew his curdled semen into and onto. Occasionally, garbled nonsense will fall out of his toothless pie-hole (he apparently wears dentures, his actual teeth having rotted out from crack) and he'll utter this with a superior tone as if he's casting pearls unto swine. How admirable. Fight the power, little man.

Crack, if this self-pleasuring ape is your idea of manhood...I hate to be condescending, but it makes me feel sorry for you, Crack.

bagoh20 said...

"I think at this point its the drugs talking--"

And if not?

I mean, just imagine that a guy would actually like lots of sex with beautiful women and enjoying hours of euphoria and still was the most successful deliverer of profits and jobs in his field. Imagine if some other people including those who benefited most from his life told him to stop having fun as he has always done and just deliver the goods we have become accustomed too.

Fen said...

Freder: So real Americans (as you see them), if they are real Americans, should be railing against conformity.

And Insty has this up:

PAUL RAHE: The Vanity Of The Intellectuals. “Intellectuals have a tendency to become whores. They are not especially well paid, and they resent the fact. But modest compensation is not the thing that bothers them the most. What they really crave is recognition, and in its pursuit they are apt to become slaves to fashion.”

But I'll trump the trick with C.S. Lewis, The Inner Ring:


"I believe that in all men’s lives at certain periods ...one of the most dominant elements is the desire to be inside the local Ring and the terror of being left outside. This desire, in one of its forms, has indeed had ample justice done to it in literature. I mean, in the form of snobbery. Victorian fiction is full of characters who are hag-ridden by the desire to get inside that particular Ring which is, or was, called Society. But it must be clearly understood that “Society,” in that sense of the word, is merely one of a hundred Rings, and snobbery therefore only one form of the longing to be inside.

People who believe themselves to be free, and indeed are free, from snobbery, and who read satires on snobbery with tranquil superiority, may be devoured by the desire in another form. It may be the very intensity of their desire to enter some quite different Ring which renders them immune from all the allurements of high life. An invitation from a duchess would be very cold comfort to a man smarting under the sense of exclusion from some artistic or communistic cĂ´terie. Poor man—it is not large, lighted rooms, or champagne, or even scandals about peers and Cabinet Ministers that he wants: it is the sacred little attic or studio, the heads bent together, the fog of tobacco smoke, and the delicious knowledge that we—we four or five all huddled beside this stove—are the people who know.

Of all the passions, the passion for the Inner Ring is most skillful in making a man who is not yet a very bad man do very bad things."

Scott M said...

I hate to be condescending, but it makes me feel sorry for you, Crack.

Contrary to public proclamations, I've always thought that was the underlying point.

hombre said...

Yes-s-i-r-ree. I called my sons and told them to watch the Sheen interviews 'cause there's a real man role-modelling for them and their sons.

Not.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


And his reaction to AA is the same one I would have - to run, and rant, and rail that it's a cult, and a cult society is trying to make me go, and it's wrong for this society to conform around cult ideas and ideals when we're Americans, supposedly a free people, who have been assaulted for decades by Charlie Manson-influenced hippidom.

AA’s not a “Cult” it’s hardly “New Age”…it’s been around over 80 years…Charlie Sheen is on the fast track to an early death…As a 12 Stepper I say, “it’s a pity, but it’s not me…” If that’s what Crack Emcee has to offer as a counter to new Agism, I’d choose New Agism….

Again I can find just as many incoherent rambles and conspiracy theories and laudatory expostulations in the Parking Lot of the local Salvation Army, I don’t consider Ted Williams a role model for anyone.

Joe said...

Where Sheen's insanity is truly evident is when he tears down the very people who helped make him a millionaire many times over. That said, this isn't the first time he's bit the hand that feeds him (though not to this extent), CBS knew it and probably hired because of that, not in spite of it.

(For those saying this isn't a meltdown, you need to go back a week and listen to his original rants. These aren't comments a sane person would make. I'm puzzled how anyone can characterize his later comments as cogent.)

Paddy O said...

"That's the kind of talk we laughed at in the 60s."

Absolutely!

Right up to the point you all got married, raised a family, started paying a mortgage, and thinking about retirement.

The art school hippie goes to law school then becomes part of the university establishment. The squarish of squares.

It's laughable! But, that's just how people are.

And oftentimes they remain good, interesting, and occasionally provocative.

The ones who kept laughing at the squares were the ones who either somehow got rich off their art (without rhyme or reason why they and not others 'made it'), or they died in a ditch back in the 70s or 80s, suffering the miseries of poverty before they did so.

bagoh20 said...

Is there really no room for Charley Sheen in our glass house. We pathetics addicted to our keyboards, most of whom would love to be Sheen for a night. Why do we hate this man. He has the option to be Charley Sheen and simply says "sure" I'd like that.

I do wish he didn't try the family route first, but he did, just like many of our fathers who might have ended up alcoholics and less than admirable to the masses. We have our lives to make, and who our dad was is not what we are. His kids will be more than OK.

Stan said...

Because the conformity is to the pretense that it is cutting edge. Just as teens dress exactly the same way in expressing their individuality. They'll all wear their pants around their knees in exprssing their non-conformity.

Liberals believe they are cutting edge. They show they are cutting edge by being liberal. It's classic immature, teen-age thinking. They are like actors in Hollywood -- they aren't interested in actually thinking; they're only interested in being seen as thinkers.

There's a reason that conservatives are far more aware of what actually happens in DC. They are paying attention, not adopting a comfortable pose that reinforces good feelings without requiring any thought.

Sorry if someone already pointed all this out. No time to read all the comments.

Pastafarian said...

Jesus Christ, bagoh (10:42am). This asshole has children who he's abandoned, so that he has more time to snort coke and ejaculate on other men's young daughters.

This isn't a man. Men make sacrifices for others. Men can deny themselves pleasure for the sake of others.

I can't even call Sheen an overgrown boy. He's more like a pig, something less than human.

MayBee said...

I mean, just imagine that a guy would actually like lots of sex with beautiful women and enjoying hours of euphoria and still was the most successful deliverer of profits and jobs in his field.

Well, he's left 3 ex-wives, 5 kids, and at least one highly publicized recent abortion in his wake. Plus concerned parents and siblings.

And he's biting the hand of the collaborators of the delivery of profit and jobs.

JAL said...

I dunno.

I rarely if even have or will agree with Jimmy Kimmel, but as I switched him off last night as he was starting his monologue he said something to the effect that if that's what Sheen is like when he's clean, what on earth is he like when he's using?

I was thinking the same thing during parts of his interview with who ever that chick was on Nightline.

Is he bipolar? Seriously.

I am anti-wuss, but Crack -- I dunno.... .. .

edutcher said...

Freder Frederson said...

What are the odds? The similarities are too great. There's no spice of individuality to the spew.

And you are claiming there is a spice of individuality in the conservative community? Can you imagine any liberal being proud to be called, if there were one, the equivalent of a "dittohead"?


They don't have to. One word of dissent and they know they'll be Alinskyized.

Between Conservatives, Libertarians, Neocons, and whom all else, there's so much disparity, it's a wonder they agree on anything - except how the Lefties are ruining the country.

As Drew noted, the Lefties prize conformity above all else. They don't want anybody not conforming now that they set the standards.

So real Americans (as you see them), if they are real Americans, should be railing against conformity.

Therefore, drinking, whoring, druggie, gambler Charlie Sheen (and the character he portrays on Two and a Half Men) must be the archetype American.


Hardly, the Lefties have been pushing "drinking, whoring, drugging" since the 60s. Carlos is very much the son of President Bartlett.

Paddy O said...

I also think it's funny that the big forum for Sheen to proclaim his manly independence and whatnot is the entirely conformist Today Show and Good Morning America. Yeah, those shows are where real alpha males go to bellow their virility.

He's not a real alpha male. He's posing as such, trying to convince himself that he's liked, he's really really liked. So, he prostitutes himself for 8 years doing something that undermines his whole actor image, then when he's cashed the check he tries to tell us how badass he is.

He's just a conformist who made lots of money conforming, but hates the idea of himself like that. So, he acts out in non-transforming ways, which doesn't really bring much risk to his fortune or body (in the short term at least) and then wants to make it all about self-empowerment.

He's like if Hemingway and Oprah had a love child.

Paddy O said...

Charlie Sheen is just a wanna be George Clooney.

bagoh20 said...

Pasta,
His kids are fine. They are far better of in life than most of us ever were. Many of us grew up with addicted, missing or an unacceptable fathers. It's not usually a devastating thing. That combined with poverty is much more dangerous, but that not the case here.

I don't think Sheen is a role model, just that a lot of this is simply people saying how dare he not conform to our standards.

If you knew the kids were fine, would you still need to attack him?

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.- 1 Corinthians 13:11

Sheen is NOT a “man”, Crack he’s a child…running away from BEING a man…some speak of who wouldn’t want to be Sheen? Wanting and doing are two different things…one can WANT many things, but in the cold light of ADULTHOOD, being blowsy crack-fiend, bang’n PrOn stars, whilst abandoning your own wives and children IS not being a man, is Not being an “adult” is NOT “admirable.” It’s being an ADOLESCENT…

bagoh20 said...

I wouldn't want to actually be Sheen, but it would be a fun ride at Disneyland. Maybe in 2021 they will have that after a long fight with the Male Role Model Advisory Board and the National Cultural Control Commitee.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Humility.

Not one iota, not one bit of humility detectable in this pathetic example of an 'adult' male.

I guess you must believe that beclowning yourself in front of millions is the ultimate statement of individuality.

There is little or no true value to the utter selfishness so willingly shared by Mr. Sheen, or other such spoiled Hollywood children for that matter.

Unless we choose to ignore such behavior, we unwittingly approve.

Why anyone is paying this guy any attention beyond getting him into rehab is beyond me.

Pastafarian said...

Bagoh, some of Charlie Manson's victims lived and they're now fine too. It doesn't make Manson less of a monster, it just means he wasn't very proficient with a butcher knife.

A man, a decent human being, once he has children, becomes an adult. He cares more for those children than he does his own pleasure centers. He makes sacrifices for them; he gives things up he once enjoyed, to provide for them (money, or time, or a good example to model oneself after).

The fact that his children will survive without a decent father doesn't make him any less of a selfish asshole.

And bear in mind that the barely grown women who he spends his money sodomizing were also children just a few years ago. I'm not surprised that we have pigs on two legs like Sheen; what surprises me is that the father of one of these 19 year old strippers that he's impregnated and financed abortions for hasn't butchered this hog yet.

But then, these strippers probably had fathers like Sheen. That's how they ended up strippers and prostitutes.

MayBee said...

I wouldn't want to actually be Sheen, but it would be a fun ride at Disneyland.

The most fun part would be getting to hold a knife to your wife's neck.

Pastafarian said...

Bagoh said: "...it would be a fun ride at Disneyland."

I don't think I'd care for that ride. But then I'm not a big fan of the game "Grand Theft Auto", or the various slaughter-and-mayhem games out there, either.

bagoh20 said...

There should be classes in elementary ,high school and college in nonconformity. That would be fun to teach. I wonder if it would be popular. If taught right it would be a very challenging class.

prairie wind said...

Pastafarian at 10:42 says it best.

DBQ: The abyss is very luring.
I'd have said, The abyss is lurid.

madison man, I like your measuring stick. If my son behaved this way, I would be terrified for him.

Charlie Sheen has some talent but mostly, he has connections. Without those connections, he's living under a bridge somewhere. Give him time and he might do that in spite of the connections.

JAL said...

"The pay is generally pretty bad. Hard to get married, raise a family, pay a mortgage, fund retirement with that attitude. Conformity implies acceptance, and acceptance suggests security."

@ AA That's the kind of talk we laughed at in the 60s.

And then they went ahead and started teaching in Wisconsin (or was it teaching at the University of Chicago, in Bill Ayers case) so the union could take care of them and they could take time off from their jobs while falsifying their work records and they still end up with more health insurance and retirement bennies than their folks ever dreamed of and the guys picking up the tab for them will ever have.

Yeah. Being a grown up sucks.

wv phate
It must be phate.

Freder Frederson said...

The art school hippie goes to law school then becomes part of the university establishment. The squarish of squares.

But she writes a blog and takes photographs! How nonconformist and cutting edge can you get? Besides, she teaches at the notoriously liberal University of Wisconsin and actually has the guts to criticize liberals (for which she has suffered greatly--someone was actually rude to her once at Starbucks). But of course, don't call her a conservative, that would be beyond the pale.

shiloh said...

Re: AA's chat w/Tim Noah about protesting.

As a rule, conservatives never/ever protested until the TP'ers came along and are now just getting their feet wet, so to speak :)

So liberals, who have a very longgg history of protest in America are still a tad ahead of conservatives in protesting against the U.S. govt. and if you give TP'ers a few more years of practice, they may be right up there competing w/libs in the insult/outrageousness category.

Or not ;)

How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Practice, practice, practice ...

>

oh yea, Charlie was very good in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


There should be classes in elementary ,high school and college in nonconformity. That would be fun to teach. I wonder if it would be popular. If taught right it would be a very challenging class.

Indeed, I assume that Phase 1 would involve me NOT showing up at all, once that caught on Phase @ would involve me showing up…once that caught on, Phase # would involve me discussing Post-Modern Architectural Design from a Christian Perspective, over top of your presentation….

Revenant said...

For those saying this isn't a meltdown, you need to go back a week and listen to his original rants. These aren't comments a sane person would make.

The reason it isn't a meltdown is that Sheen's been like that for years. "Meltdown" implies a sudden decline.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

There should be classes in elementary ,high school and college in nonconformity.

You can't teach individuality or non conformity in a structured group setting.

Individuality is something you learn from your parents, learn from life experiences or is something you are innately blessed with.

Critical thinking, may be something that students in school could learn......only if we have teachers who have critical thinking skills as well. Unfortunately, our public school system has systematically squashed the ability to think critically over these last 40 years.

As to Sheen, he is a mental and emotional adolescent, sheltered from adult reality by too much money and helpful sycophants.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)




I’m having a conceptual difficulty…Crack hates “hippies”-Ok, who doesn’t?-but let us look at Hippies, drug-using, Free-Lovin’ Freaks, in Crack-Land …Baaaaaaadddd, very bad. Now Crack’s new Role Model, Mr. Sheen, Drug-usin’, Free-lov’n FREAK…so how come if I have Patchouli and a Serape I’m a Hippie-New Ager meriting contempt, but if I’m an Upper Class White Guy in shorts and a bowling shirt I’m a Free Spirit? I’m puzzled….

MayBee said...

Many major cities have high school drop out rates at or above 50%. I'd say nonconformity is thriving.

William said...

I saw Charlie on the Piers Morgan show last night. He is a man of considerable magnetism, charm and humor. If he's going through some kind of melt down, he hides it well. He's no Britney Spears. I would tend to agree with Crack, but there is the possibility that mimicking sanity might be part of his act.....The facts of his life speak for themselves. He is on some kind of death spiral, and his life will not end well. I would compare him to Lenny Bruce. Lenny was married to a stripper (the porn stars of their day) and had a monster drug habit. His grandiosity was such that he felt the world was plotting against him. His talent was such that he got the government to participate in his persecution complex and, even better, he got the world to judge his self indulgence as a form of martyrdom.......A man walks into a bar with his girl friend, his ex wife, and a porn star. Charlie's life is a fine joke. I really, truly wish him well, but the punch line is early death.

Scott M said...

A man, a decent human being, once he has children, becomes an adult.

One of the greatest things someone ever said to me was, "Children do not bring you happiness. They bring you joy."

This statement is at the same time one of most true and most sublime things I've ever heard. As a 41-year-old father of a six-, three-, and 18-month-old, I can wholehearted testify to its truth. There are entire boatloads of things I would like to do with my time and money. 99% of them are disallowed because of both my paternal and financial responsibilities. I have children that I'm responsible for raising properly (in the case of the girls, I agree with Chris Rock in that my primary job is keeping them off The Pole) and, at the same time, I do not have the financial wherewithal to outsource that responsibility.

These are conscious choices that I make every day. Combined with the absolute drudgery of maintaining a household inhabited by said rugrats, with the help of my wonderful wife, it's enough to drive one right into a midlife crisis of titanic proportions.

On the other hand, the sheer amount of joy these small humans provide is beyond measure. I recently attended an alumni event with some college buddies and noticed how much happier, in general, the husband/fathers were compared to the 40-something children.

MadisonMan said...

You can't teach individuality or non conformity in a structured group setting.

I'm reminded of this: this

Fen said...

Shiloh: As a rule, conservatives never/ever protested until the TP'ers came along

"Get out of Cheney's house!"

deborah said...

Pasta said:
"A man, a decent human being, once he has children, becomes an adult. He cares more for those children than he does his own pleasure centers. He makes sacrifices for them; he gives things up he once enjoyed, to provide for them (money, or time, or a good example to model oneself after)."

Crack, you once said, in relation to your wife leaving you, that you would have died for her, yet she abandoned you for a charlatan.

shoutingthomas said...

Hipsterism is the new Man in The Grey Flannel Suit.

edutcher said...

shiloh said...

Re: AA's chat w/Tim Noah about protesting.

As a rule, conservatives never/ever protested until the TP'ers came along and are now just getting their feet wet, so to speak :)

So liberals, who have a very longgg history of protest in America are still a tad ahead of conservatives in protesting against the U.S. govt. and if you give TP'ers a few more years of practice, they may be right up there competing w/libs in the insult/outrageousness category.


He's still on that?

In any case, the Liberals ran things after 1932, so they protested nothing.

The Leftists cried, whined, moaned, and complained until it was their turn to louse things up after '68.

Conservatives were too busy working. They've objected to what the Liberals and Leftists have done, but never made Protest a substitute for being a contributing member of society.

bagoh20 said...

Pasta, His name is Sheen not Manson. I do see some similarities, but there is no murder or mayhem involved - I think exhaustion and headaches are the worst he's done. Well, there is that knife thing, but when you live on the edge, you have to do something dangerous or at least scary.

I just think the uproar over this guy is as crazy as he is. I wouldn't give him my car keys, but I'm glad he's there in all his glory. I do expect a crash and burn, but would love to see him show a new way. I just don't see how that ego can live the life everyone wants him to.

Here is how he could do it: Extreme sports, risky adventure in business and art. That would be great to see. I really don't want to see another wild boy calm down and fit in. It's nice, but it's old, and showing me new things is what it's all about. Now, get on it Charley, we're watching...for now.

Pastafarian said...

Joe (11:19), the best I can tell, the one thing that makes Sheen better than his hippie drug-den orgy buddies is the fact that some of those hippies might go on to marry one of the women he ejaculates upon.

Making said hippie a "beta male" and the lowest thing in Crack's universe.

Sheen, on the other hand, degrades, debases, and defiles these evil female creatures, showing them nothing but a few hundred dollars and the back of his pimp-hand. Which is admirable, apparently, in Crack's world.

Crack, I'd love to hear a rebuttal to my characterization of your position.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

DBQ: The abyss is very luring.
Prairie:I'd have said, The abyss is lurid.


No..luring. The siren's song that some cannot resist.

I've looked into the abyss, teetered on the edge. I've seen some of my friends disappear into the abyss.

Crack may condsider AA to be a cult. I don't know whether it is or not, but if AA can be one of the ways that a person can save themselves from destruction, when they want to be 'saved' (and I don't mean that in any religous sense) then who are we to deny them the tools. AA isn't snatching people off of the streets to participate in their 12 step program.

While I respect Sheen's right to live how he wants to live and die how he wants to die, I don't respect his right to drag others into his abyss and share his self destruction.

Pastafarian said...

bagoh said: "Here is how he could do it: Extreme sports, risky adventure..."

There's something you and I agree upon. I would love to see Sheen take up base-jumping. Real men forgo the fairy parachute. Or mountain climbing -- Everest awaits, Sheen. And sherpas and oxygen tanks are for pussies. Hey, I here that's not snow at the top, it's pure uncut Columbian coke.

Robert Cook said...

"Does anyone remember back when liberals would trot out the line 'I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it'.

And they actually meant it."


No, I don't. And I'm 45.


I guess you've never heard of the ACLU.

bagoh20 said...

"Many major cities have high school drop out rates at or above 50%. I'd say nonconformity is thriving."

The drop outs are conformists too, and I'd say more so. You have to pick your role models carefully, and there will always be a a wide variety to choose from, I hope.

shoutingthomas said...

Sheen, on the other hand, degrades, debases, and defiles these evil female creatures, showing them nothing but a few hundred dollars and the back of his pimp-hand. Which is admirable, apparently, in Crack's world.

How in the hell you know this, I cannot imagine. It's just male chivalry talking. You have no idea, in reality, how Sheen treats women, or what the women involved with Sheen think of him.

I'll answer a bit for Crack, and he can defend or deny. Black men are, on the whole, saner and more realistic in their outlook on women. That's one of the reasons that macho, black men are very attractive to many white women.

The overblown chivalry of most white men is really dreary stuff, and it displays a most unrealistic and silly attitude about the sexuality of women and the nature of their desires.

This is one of the reasons that the dominant white culture is seen by so many other cultures as virtually sexless. In particular, the egghead, professional white culture is seen, in my experience, by Asians and blacks as an almost entirely neutered culture.

The wimpy chivalry of white men is a horrible thing... and one of the main reasons that feminism was able to gain a foothold.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Do you reject the glamour of evil and refuse to be mastered by sin?

You folk acting like Sheen has achieved something, might note the above…the Church does not reject the allure of sin, “Who wouldn’t want to be Charlie Sheen for a night?”, it simply points out, correctly, that it is STILL Sin…Wilfred Owen has a great line in one of his poems…like a devil's sick of sin even a Devil can become sick of the sin…it’s fun, now but not so much twenty years from now…

Sheen and others don’t want to “own” this…they want to think how much fun it would be TONIGHT…sure but TOMORROW with AIDS, or STD’s, or the hang-over, the child support if the other party “forgot” birth control, and the wrecked family and marriage it might not look so fun….

Crack’s got a bug about AA, because he’s an atheist…most of us in 12 Step work feel for Sheen but also know we can’t “save” him and wouldn’t try…we’re not “reformers” we’re about saving ourselves, Sheen/Crack/You are on your own. That’s the antithesis of a “cult.”

Pastafarian said...

I guess the ACLU never heard of the second amendment, Bob.

shoutingthomas said...

I guess you've never heard of the ACLU.

Count on Kookie.

The ACLU stopped being a free speech organization and become a far left PC propaganda unit a couple of decades ago, Kookie.

Thus, they are simpatico with a commie like you.

bagoh20 said...

"Hey, I here that's not snow at the top, it's pure uncut Columbian coke.:

Exactly, and the Sherpa chicks are real "goddesses"...after you shave them.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@bagoh

"...and showing me new things is what it's all about. Now, get on it Charley, we're watching...for now."

And that's what its really all about, isn't it? Me me me.

I hear 'Charley' makes friends easy, Bagoh, hell, you're as little as an eight-ball away from making a new friend.

Michael said...

If you give a monkey enough shots of vodka he becomes addicted to the vodka. It has nothing to do as to whether or not he got enough bananas when he was little or whether or not the bananas were ripe or green. It has to do with drinking too many shots of vodka. If the monkey quits drinking the shots of vodka he will miss them at first and then gradually he will forget about them altogether. Charlie would do well to eschew the vodka and keep his mouth shut for a while. He will be fine then and won't be talking about the situation on Mars.

Scott M said...

Black men are, on the whole, saner and more realistic in their outlook on women. That's one of the reasons that macho, black men are very attractive to many white women.

Unbelievable. Absolutely, patently, unbelievable. I can't believe you actually took the time to type that out, ST. Did you have to special order that huge brush you're painting with? Did it say on the label anything like WARNING: CANNOT BE USED FOR RIDICULOUS ANECDOTAL STATEMENTS WITH ANY HOPE TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY ?

shiloh said...

He's still on that?

AA mentioned it in this post ie rebelling against authority er protesting against the govt:

It's funny, I was just saying to Meade that people don't rant against "conformity" anymore — not like they did in the 50s and 60s. What got me going wasn't Charlie Sheen. It was my Bloggingheads with Timothy Noah, which, for various reasons, made me think about the way liberals, including liberal media folk, talk to each other and feel emotional rewards for saying what they all say back and forth to each other.

carry on

btw, aren't generalizations great ie all liberals think the same and all conservatives think the same. Indeed, never any grey area at political blogs ...

prairie wind said...

No..luring. The siren's song that some cannot resist.

I've looked into the abyss, teetered on the edge. I've seen some of my friends disappear into the abyss.


Not arguing against what you said, DBQ. I have seen friends disappear into the lurid abyss myself.

phx said...

btw, aren't generalizations great ie all liberals think the same and all conservatives think the same. Indeed, never any grey area at political blogs ...

That was worth posting again.

shoutingthomas said...

Unbelievable. Absolutely, patently, unbelievable. I can't believe you actually took the time to type that out, ST. Did you have to special order that huge brush you're painting with? Did it say on the label anything like WARNING: CANNOT BE USED FOR RIDICULOUS ANECDOTAL STATEMENTS WITH ANY HOPE TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY ?

Racial groups do have common characteristics. I've lived in black neighborhoods in the SF Bay Area, in Chicago and in Brooklyn.

I stand by what I wrote.

Let the loons being screaming "Racist!"

LordSomber said...

It's funny, I was just saying to Meade that people don't rant against "conformity" anymore — not like they did in the 50s and 60s.

It's hard for people to be down on The Man, when considering popular tastes and mores, they are The Man.

The Counterculture is now the Culture.

You want irony?

"Making fun of the bourgeoisie" is now bourgeois.

Pastafarian said...

shouting said: "You have no idea, in reality, how Sheen treats women..."

Well, not first-hand. I gleaned some bits from the same article, based on interviews with the 19-year-old girls who he inseminates and provides abortions for, that also provided such gems as the fact that he has to wear dentures on his show, since the drugs rotted his teeth out.

And what you call chivalry, I guess I consider decency. You'll have to explain how treating others with respect led to (presumably militant) feminism (I presume you're indicting just militant feminists here, unless you're also opposed to women's suffrage).

What other cultures think of my "dominant white" notion of decency...I give not a fig. And for a conservative, you throw around notions of racial hegemony like a Daily Kos commenter.

bagoh20 said...

"I hear 'Charley' makes friends easy, Bagoh, hell, you're as little as an eight-ball away from making a new friend."

Oh, I wish I could hang with that. I would screw and do blow by night and have my own Charley expose' blog by day.

But, I'm weak and as Charley has said, I'm not even able to process the drug known as Charley Sheen.

Charley is our Icarus, a humming bird, a mayfly, to be appreciated, but viewed from afar at a safe distance. That's all I can do.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I guess you've never heard of the ACLU.

I guess you've never heard of The Boy Scouts of America

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@shouting

"Black men are, on the whole, saner and more realistic in their outlook on women. That's one of the reasons that macho, black men are very attractive to many white women."

I am only going to quote this, despite there being many many more incredible things you shared at 11:35.

Wow.

Hope you're happy you unburdened yourself of that...

Just wow.

shiloh said...

The Counterculture is now the Culture.

Indeed, how many Woodstock hippies grew up to be Wall St. stockbrokers, eh.

solo estoy diciendo

shoutingthomas said...

Black men are, on the whole, saner and more realistic in their outlook on women. That's one of the reasons that macho, black men are very attractive to many white women.

Well, yes, it's absolutely true.

I'll repeat it. Well, I just did.

And the majority white culture is incredibly wimpy and overly chivalrous in its view of women.

Which, as I said, is the sin of white men that created the soil in which feminism was implanted.

In most black and Asian societies, the traditional sex roles remain unchallenged. Do the math.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Indeed, how many Woodstock hippies grew up to be Wall St. stockbrokers, eh.

BUT, as Portnoy the Woodchuck (Bloom County) says, “I’m still very, very Liberal.”

Pastafarian said...

shouting said: "That's one of the reasons that macho, black men are very attractive to many white women."

The other reason is their great big, enormous, shiny, black, hardcover copy of Bentham's Panopticon.

shoutingthomas said...

Not surprisingly, my comments also explain the total dominance by black men of the most important professional sports, basketball and football.

Black men are still, on the whole, macho and ready to fight for what they want.

White men surrendered and let their women grind them into the dust.

White men like to call this enlightenment. I call it something else.

Scott M said...

A point of order. Portnoy was a groundhog. Opus and the Binkley's were the unabashed liberals.

Scott M said...

Not surprisingly, my comments also explain the total dominance by black men of the most important professional sports, basketball and football.

Have you played any of those sports competitively, ST? I'm guessing not because, if you did, you would know how utterly bullshit that comment is.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


And the majority white culture is incredibly wimpy and overly chivalrous in its view of women.



Yeah I see that…having sex and moving on..Hook-Ups is really, really chivalrous…calling them “B!tches” or “Ho’s” man Chivalry personified….

In most black and Asian societies, the traditional sex roles remain unchallenged. Do the math.

Where they know their place, and I can knock them around if I want, and divorce them easily for a new model…Man how is it that you are still single? Or did you get a Somali Mail-Order bride?

OK, I see…this is SATIRE, A SPOOF, a JAPE…and we’re falling for it…my bad…I’m onto you now.

bagoh20 said...

Like Tiger Woods, Sheen was doing fine until someone started bitching.

Now look what you've all done. Tiger's golf sucks, and we may never see another "Two and a Half Men".

Pastafarian said...

Scott, woodchucks and groundhogs are the same animal. And many groundhogs are liberal -- they're the ones that live in their mother's basement.

shoutingthomas said...

Have you played any of those sports competitively, ST? I'm guessing not because, if you did, you would know how utterly bullshit that comment is.

Yes, I was all-state on a small high school level in basketball and football.

I played baseball through American Legion ball.

Played intramural in college and continued to play corporate league until I was into my 50s.

Scott M said...

Scott, woodchucks and groundhogs are the same animal.

Undoubtedly. However, I'm going by what Port called himself when he was outed as a pig and Hodge stopped hanging out with him. He would probably thpppt at the thought of being called a woodchuck.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Not surprisingly, my comments also explain the total dominance by black men of the most important professional sports, basketball and football.



More humour….because now you make the silly assumption about what are the “most important pro sports”…obviously you are trying to impersonate a “Pot-bellied stoogie-sucker”-“them’s good eatin’”- a prototypical white male…no one could seriously make that claim. Like I say I’m onto you now, good sirrah!

ScottM, the wiki says Portnoy has been portrayed as a woodchuck, though was eventually outed as a ground hog..but do remember Portnoy uttering the phrase, "But I'm still very, very liberal" he was either getting old or had done some responsible adult thing....

shoutingthomas said...

Man how is it that you are still single? Or did you get a Somali Mail-Order bride?

Stupid comment. I am widowed.

If you like, you can learn about my late wife, Myrna, here.

Today would have been her 56th birthday.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@shouting

"In most black and Asian societies, the traditional sex roles remain unchallenged. Do the math."

"Black men are still, on the whole, macho and ready to fight for what they want."

Maybe, just maybe, your opinion indicates a larger symptom:

http://www.examiner.com/public-education-in-seattle/hard-truths-the-failure-of-the-black-family-and-black-male-achievement

shiloh said...

“I’m still very, very Liberal.”

When you join the military you become very nationalistic regardless of your politics. I served in the navy during the Iran Hostage crisis and you get a (((Nuke 'em til they glow attitude))) about a lot of situations.

but, but, but I entered the military a liberal independent and left a liberal independent. As an aside during the late '70s, early '80s only about 10/20% of military personnel were registered to vote, let alone actually voted ie absentee ballots were always a hassle, etc. But beginning in the 80s there was a campaign to get everyone in the military registered, which was just short of making it mandatory.

Again, when you join the military, you no longer fall under the U.S. Constitution per se, but under Army/Navy Regs, etc. and the UCMJ ...

Scott M said...

Ah...then you're aware that "macho" and innate athletic ability aren't necessarily part and parcel. Good.

Respect for women in general, in particular for those you care about, and assuming responsibilities thereof do not reduce one as a man.

Machismo, as you are casually describing it, is rampant in South America. How's that been working out for them? Ditto the Middle East.

shoutingthomas said...

More humour….because now you make the silly assumption about what are the “most important pro sports”…obviously you are trying to impersonate a “Pot-bellied stoogie-sucker”-“them’s good eatin’”- a prototypical white male…no one could seriously make that claim. Like I say I’m onto you now, good sirrah!

The most important pro sports are the ones that pay the most money.

Of the most important pro team sports, white men remain only in baseball.

In football and basketball, white men (with a few exceptions) have thrown in the towel.

shoutingthomas said...

@Don't Tread 2012

I didn't say that the attitudes and direction of the majority of black men don't also have some major drawbacks.

Nothing in life is simple.

traditionalguy said...

In defense of Crack, all humans are addicted to the inner medication of hormone levels caused by reactions to the people they must live among. Anger about losses is the truest emotion and dealing with that emotion successfully is a learned life skill. Crack and Sheen point to their inner resources to do so for them. All help from outside of them is seen as a Control Cult offering placebo pain relief from mind control. And as a believer in the Christian Gospel, I probably am seen by them as being trapped in a Cult that accepts supernatural Grace through Jesus's sacrifice and intentionally interacts with a personal Father God. So we all must seek what works the best for us in our short sojourn here on this earth.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Not surprisingly, my comments also explain the total dominance by black men of the most important professional sports, basketball and football.



Ok, USPGA, Tiger Woods…Soccer, World Cup….define most “important pro sports”…you ASSUME that the NFL and NBA ARE the Universe of pro sports ,when a vast stretch of the world would laugh at you….

Scott M said...

If you like, you can learn about my late wife, Myrna, here.

Today would have been her 56th birthday.


Apparently ST is setting this up so that he comes off as more macho and virile than the average black man. Why else would his wife have stayed with him instead of ditching him for some black bohunk athlete.

It's crystal clear now, ST. Black men are better men than white men. Except for you. You're better than black men because you successfully held on to a white women in the face of the black man's obvious superiority at being male.

Kudos. Do you suppose she prefers black angels?

shoutingthomas said...

Machismo, as you are casually describing it, is rampant in South America. How's that been working out for them? Ditto the Middle East.

You're addressing two different issues here.

One is just plain glandular, animal sex appeal.

The other is economic and political success.

The battle between the machismo cultures and the wimped out European and American white cultures is, it appears to me, headed toward a global war.

I would not venture a guess how that will turn out.

My own opinion (which has no effect whatsoever on the outcome) is that the general societal status of women is equally out of whack on both sides of the conflict.

In other words, the feminist model of the west is just as crazy as the Islamic model of femininity.

shoutingthomas said...

It's crystal clear now, ST. Black men are better men than white men. Except for you. You're better than black men because you successfully held on to a white women in the face of the black man's obvious superiority at being male.

Not at all. I reside somewhere in between.

I am a traditional white men who comes from a religious, rural culture.

My wife wasn't white. She was half Filipina, half Chinese.

She was an actress and singer, which accounts for her ability to make herself look European when she wanted to do so.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@shouting

"I didn't say that the attitudes and direction of the majority of black men don't also have some major drawbacks.

Nothing in life is simple."

Hence, the macho response.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

She was an actress and singer, which accounts for her ability to make herself look European when she wanted to do so.

Wow. Just.... wow.

edutcher said...

Show me a Lefty who doesn't think like all the other Lefties, and I'll show you a newly-minted Conservative.

bagoh20 said...

Pasta, His name is Sheen not Manson.

Actually, it's Estevez.

shoutingthomas said...

DBQ,

You're not aware that professional actors and actresses can dramatically alter their appearance?

My closest male friend is a professional model and actor.

He can look like an entirely different person every time he does a shoot.

That is, in fact, why they call it acting

Lucius said...

He'll always have "Platoon" and "Wall Street", in both of which his fresh-faced boyishness is crucial to playing an affable young man who gets his head twisted in these Oedipal contests between good and bad Father Figures. Watching his present interviews, I can't help but think he's grown up into Gordon Gecko, even if that means admitting that GG, in his crazy way, was sometimes right about certain things, and entertaining as all hell.

But I don't think we're doing full justice to what Crack is really getting at, I think. That reference to Lady Gaga and Britney Spears-- grown-ups playing with bubblegum-- and our cultural stagnation signals that a lot of this has to do with the totalizing gynocentrism of entertainment today.

Sheen may be half-crazy, but at least he takes the road of *attempting* to own up to some kind of agency in his own behavior. Probably Sheen's delusional; certainly a lot of his behavior is unadmirable. But how many people in Hollywood are telling him to coke it up as much as he wants, just for godssake *apologize* the way Oprah and Today demand?

So basically he tells the Today Show off. Good for him.

Does anybody think Sex and the City wasn't rolling in cocaine? Seriously, that show's worldview is cocaine embodied. So why do women treat that orgy of self-regarding materialistic hoochiedom like it's some kind of vision of rose petals?

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Do you suppose she prefers black angels?



Do angels come in colours? Alternatively, are there white Devils, in heaven?

The battle between the machismo cultures and the wimped out European and American white cultures is, it appears to me, headed toward a global war.

Well if the past is any guide, superior firepower. Logistics, training, and professionalism will win out…As was said in Zulu If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. I’m on the side of the Henry-Martini/Colt/Fabrique National “Miracle” myself…but you keep pining on for the machismo to win, if you want.

shoutingthomas said...

Well if the past is any guide, superior firepower. Logistics, training, and professionalism will win out…

Really... like in Vietnam? As is currently happening in Afghanistan? Somalia?

One of my favorite writers, Fred Reed.

Don't necessary endorse everything he says.

Remember, the Muslim world already has nuclear weapons and is acquiring more as we speak.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Really... like in Vietnam? As is currently happening in Afghanistan? Somalia?



Somalia, you mean the dirt poor place eking a living out by piracy? And Afghanistan, where the Taliban are in the process of breaking under the hammer blows of UAV’s, JDAMS, and NATO professionalism? But if you think that Somalia or Afghanistan represent a “win” for the machismo, by all means feel free to do so…just as you and Crack seem to think Sheen a beacon unto men…all three of you are crazy wrong, but who am I to try to convince you. Time will tell, in Somalia as it regresses into the barbarism, Afghanistan as it inches into the 20th C. and Sheen is found dead in a few years and VH1 Runs a “where are they now” sort of obit/documentary…..

shoutingthomas said...

Does anybody think Sex and the City wasn't rolling in cocaine? Seriously, that show's worldview is cocaine embodied. So why do women treat that orgy of self-regarding materialistic hoochiedom like it's some kind of vision of rose petals?

Part of the overly chivalrous white male code is that women are never really responsible for anything... not even for snorting coke. Somebody else made them do it... probably an evil man.

Of course, during the heydey of coke in NYC, the most popular method of application was directly to the clitoris.

And, Joe, you're beating a dead horse. I quite clearly pointed out earlier that hormonal sexual attractiveness and political and economic success are two different issues.

I'm not an advocate of "machismo." That is an argument called reducto ad absurdum, which you do well.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


The battle between the machismo cultures and the wimped out European and American white cultures is, it appears to me, headed toward a global war.



Funny didn’t seem to stop YOU from mentioning “machismo” in regards to cultures,…so machismo must mean something beyond hormonal success or attractiveness.

Maguro said...

Shoutingthomas eloquently explained why our elite Special Forces are predominantly blacks toughs from the ghetto.

Oh, wait...

Don't Tread 2012 said...

What, do we have some sort of ARGUMENT CLINIC or something???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Scott M said...

What, do we have some sort of ARGUMENT CLINIC or something???

No. This is Abuse.

shoutingthomas said...

Shoutingthomas eloquently explained why our elite Special Forces are predominantly blacks toughs from the ghetto.

Another absurd statement.

Black men, in my experience, more often than not embody a go for broke mentality.

This go for broke mentality can lead to incredible achievement in the arts and athletics, and at the other extreme to jail, which we all know is too often the fate of that culture of machismo.

There is an emerging educated middle class of black men, but change there is very slow. Different for black women, who got the message 40 years ago that the quota system would favor them. Black women got out there and worked their way into middle management and government jobs in droves.

How I became a spokesman for black dominance of the special forces is anybody's guess. Yet another example of argument by reducto ad absurdum.

And the panic that white men are showing in response to my posts is exactly what Charlie Sheen is talking about when he ridicules people who have no business in his life.

Time to quit, because PC, which is the religion white women forced on white men, is taking over.

Have at it, boys.

roesch-voltaire said...

Ah gee here I am a white liberal and I must confess I had my Charlie Sheen nights, but I did not have to pay to party, nor did I threaten anybody- so I guess that means I am not an Alpha male:) Give me a break from all this simplistic thinking.

Luther said...

"Really... like in Vietnam? "

Actually, we kicked their fucking ass in the field.

Scott M said...

Please cite the black dominance of special forces. Please remember that I have an immediate family member on active duty that is a career soldier in that community.

shiloh said...

Tiger's golf sucks,

You can say a lot of things about Tiger, but he was a great multitasker lol

So many porn stars, so little time ...

btw, Al Gore invented the internet for the (3) P's Politics/Poker/Porn ~ in no particular order.

Scott M said...

btw, Al Gore invented the internet for the (3) P's Politics/Poker/Porn ~ in no particular order.

Fry: Since when is the Internet all about robbing people of their privacy?
Bender: August 6, 1991.

write_effort said...

"gynocentrism of entertainment today"

Gotta laugh at that one. God, the fear that Oprah is gonna take your weenie is amazing in some men.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@ScottM

"No. This is Abuse."

No ;) THIS is abuse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38UrRpYsPjw

R.L. Hunter said...

As to whether or not AA is a cult, this guy makes a pretty good argument that it is.

madawaskan said...

Sorry I'm not going to join the Crack Chorus-

I've never, ever liked Charlie Sheen.

He has dead eyes.

madawaskan said...

Shoutingthomas eloquently explained why our elite Special Forces are predominantly blacks toughs from the ghetto.

Oh, wait...


LOL!

rsb said...

I would bet the farm that Mr. Sheen will have another run - but that is his business and not mine.

madawaskan said...

And he's free.

Wait that's the end of Crack's schpeel.

Charlie Sheen is a slave.

Scott M said...

I would bet the farm that Mr. Sheen will have another run - but that is his business and not mine.

I'm going to bet the farm that Mr. Sheen is going to buy the farm in short order.

Lucius said...

@write_effort: As a devotee of Jane Austen, the Rococo period, and Tina Fey, I haven't got a weenie for Oprah to take.

But yeah, Oprah can keep her foolish, Philistine hands off of whatever.

"Exuberance is beauty", as William Blake says. And exuberance has to mean more than coffee rings on the latest Martha Steward Living.

It doesn't mean 'coke and hookers' either. But mouthing off against societal demands that he march himself into the ranks of Alco/Narcos Anonymous, now that's a tune I might wanna hear.

rsb said...

@Scott M
Maybe a coca farm, he's rich. More power to him.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


It doesn't mean 'coke and hookers' either. But mouthing off against societal demands that he march himself into the ranks of Alco/Narcos Anonymous, now that's a tune I might wanna hear.



News Flash: SOCIETY isn’t demanding anything…his EMPLOYER is demanding it….there’s a BIG difference….

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Maybe a coca farm, he's rich. More power to him.


So were Michael Vick and MC Hammer….as were:
Johnny Unitas.
2. Eric Dickerson.
3. Deuce McAllister.
4. Andre “Bad Moon” Rison
5. Who else? Michael Vick.
6. Travis Henry.
7. Arthur Marshall.

kathleen said...

I wouldn't say white men are "overly chivalrous". When I was very pregnant and taking metro in DC, the only men who offered me their seat had brown skin. The white guys wouldn't even look at me -- hardly chivalrous.

Shanna said...

In other words, the feminist model of the west is just as crazy as the Islamic model of femininity.

Men being a little bit whimpy (some of us call it kind) is JUST AS CRAZY as men out and out murdering women for coming out with their hair down or being raped. That just about all you need to know about ST, n’es pas?

I've never, ever liked Charlie Sheen. He has dead eyes.

You are so right!

Lucius said...

@Joe: Society will keep bitching about this long after his employers.

It's the employers who are the biggest hypocrites: Sheen's been like this from day one. They're just (temporarily, most like) putting their wounded egos ahead of profits.

And, as it happens, 'entertainment' (for what else is the Today Show et.al.?) is making money out of it now. Just spreading the wealth away from CBS.

It's just a question of how Sheen is put to use to amuse us: sitcom breakmaker or freakout circus.

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