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Oh, sure am, Ann. I'm just sittin' here eatin' that shit with a spoon..
How was Gadaffi destabilizing the region? He was on the point of total victory in his country. Obama has extended the fighting indefinately.Plus, Gadaffi said he would show no mercy to armed rebels. Armed rebels are not innocent civilians and his words are purposefully being taken out of context.Obama is a liar.
In the first sentence, he tells two lies.He ordered nothing; the Hildabeast, Samantha Powers, and Susan Rice did.He "promised to keep the American people informed"? Sure, if it didn't interfere with the parties and visiting the Mayan ruins.
I think the bigger question Americans will have is whether the new government of Libya will truly represents the Libyan people or some broader coalition (i.e., Brotherhood).
Egypt:Obama allies politically with the Muslim Brotherhood.Neighboring Libya:Obama allies militarily with al Qaida."This is what democracy looks like"Winning.....
Well done. Only seven uses of the first-person singular pronoun in a four-minute foreign-policy speech.
A weak and pathetic statement. We can only do something if we are part of broader international community. Quick is 31 days and still no real plan, just platitudes and the ever present touchy feely comments of people, this time from Libyans. Maybe Al Qaeda Libyans.Jan. 20, 2013 cannot come fast enough to put this combo Jimmy Carter and Martin Van Buren back onto the street of Chicago to peddle his phony community organizing crap.
Not a word in his address about process-- notifying Congress, etc. Like almost everything in the leftist view, process is merely a tactic, not a strategy or a principle.
Nothing can be done about the Arab world.Stark raving madness is the norm.Give up. Come home. Stop deceiving ourselves that one side or the other will be more humanitarian.Accept the reality of slavery, atrocity and slaughter that that world embraces.Nothing can be done about it. So, do nothing.
This address was fine. What I am sick to death of is his bad mouthing of his predecessor when he is abroad: the none-too-subtle insinuations about past U.S. actions "when the United States acted unilaterally or did not have full international support." Not only are such statement untrue, they are beneath the dignity of the office and frankly unpatriotic. The American president should not criticize his predecessors in public when overseas. That's really not too much to ask. Obama lacks even that hint of class.Thanks again for that vote, Althouse.
No, and you aren't helping.But, with the original clip I might have been, maybe. The President acting against "viewpoint discrimination" might have seemed justified.What do I tell my neighbors from Cote d'Ivoire (462 dead and counting)?Regards — Cliff
Nope. Not persuaded. Not by a long shot.
@JasonHow was Gadaffi destabilizing the region? Hmm, by being a terrorism-funding madman who stole all his country's money and oppressed his people? For 42 years?Obama has extended the fighting indefinately. Also France, Italy, the UK, the UN, NATO, and the Arab League. "Obama." You really sound dumb.Plus, Gadaffi said he would show no mercy to armed rebels. Armed rebels are not innocent civilians Tell that to the people in Misrata, Ajdabiya, and Benghazi, you nitwit. Qadaffi's tanks and artillery were shelling the civilians in all these places.
If he had acted early he probably could have prevented many civilian deaths. If he had done nothing he could have prevented a few. But by intervening late in the game he seems to have picked the policy guaranteed to kill the most civilians possible.
Not only are such statement untrue, they are beneath the dignity of the office DHOTUS is the Diversity Hire. Its enough that he's articulate and clean looking. What? You wanted leadership?
Browndog said... "This is what democracy looks like"Winning.....He's picking the Strong (and Islamist) horse in both place
Jason-- because of the no-fly zone Qadaffi's advance armor was turned back from Benghazi, the rebels were losing and now they are winning (just broke through Ajdabiya today, headed west). You clearly have no grasp on the situation; maybe try to read up on it before shooting your mouth off.
Soon he will say, "We have saved or created countless lives."
What is really F'ing stupid is our multiple complete disavowal of any thought of targeting Gadaffi.Your always want to keep the guy worried and guessing till the ToT. If Gadaffi knows we won't bomb his ass, he has little incentive to deal...PS: a system failure on a JDAM that happens to fall through the roof of the PanAm 103 bombers house would be a thing of beauty.
@shoutingthomas 10:53:Increasingly, that's where I find myself. Figure out where to draw the line, and let them know if they cross it, we let the dogs out and lay waste until they get back across the line. Drill here. The Gulf, Pacific and Atlantic fields. Dakotas. Buy Canadian oil. Develop other energy sources, including nuclear in the meantime. Become energy self sufficient and let the Chinese and Euros get their oil from the mid east.
Soon he will say, "We have saved or created countless lives."LOL: takes away some of the pain.
Could only make it a minute and a half.
He keeps clinging to that "only an air war/no troops jive."Approximately 2,200 Marines and sailors with 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, II Marine Expeditionary Force from Camp Lejeune received deployment orders to support the commanders of the U.S. European, African and Central commands, and will leave in April."http://www.wcti12.com/news/27310482/detail.html
This how the international comunty should work.Following a Clinton Bush (Kosovo Iraq) era policy, Obama makes it sound like a coalition never went after anybody before.Hubris.
It's an investment in Libya.
franglo,You are confusing mistreating Libyans with destabilizing the region. Supporting the rebellions is what is destabilizing the region. That may be an appropriate policy, but don't lie about it.
exhel-- that's quite a twisted, Orwellian definition of "stability" you have. The stability of Omerta or the jewish ghetto in Poland, 1941.
franglo: Hmm, by being a terrorism-funding madman who stole all his country's money and oppressed his people? For 42 years?No. Obama and the other western leaders were perfectly okay with all that. They shook Gadaffi's hand and welcomed him into their society.Also France, Italy, the UK, the UN, NATO, and the Arab League. "Obama." You really sound dumb.No one was going to do anything without the US. No one could do anything without the US. To say it is a group behind this which equally shares responsibility sounds "dumb", just like it did when Bush made the claim.Tell that to the people in Misrata, Ajdabiya, and Benghazi, you nitwit. Qadaffi's tanks and artillery were shelling the civilians in all these places.They were getting shelled because Obama refused to act early on. He made the decision to let them be killed, to be raped and tortured in the most gruesome ways imaginable. He decided when this started to sacrifice them. Then he changed his mind because he couldn't bare the consequences. Probably even more people will die becuase of it.He's like a doctor who, because of a mistake, misses treating you for gangrene; then when it comes time to cut off your leg becomes hysterical with the knife and leaves you a bloody corpse.
first 0:30 secs... it's all about me me me! You narcissistic asshole!0:35... get in that jab at Bush!0:47... "bloodbath"-- spit out with emphasis-- "that could destabilize an entire region"... isn't that a Bush argument?Kumbaya, my U.N... Kumbaya!1:05... "our military mission in Libya is clear and focused". You doesn't even believe that yourself-- anyone can see you're lying! You're a bad liar.1:22... "We're succeeding in our mission." Just like Bush said about Iraq those years ago with that Mission Accomplished banner in the background?1:42... "...because we acted quickly..." You didn't act quickly, asshole! You dragged your feet in pansy-ass indecisiveness and allowed Gadaffi to make solid gains before getting involved.1:59... "no ground forces"... Hey! It's a video game! 2:10... "allies and partners"... You already said that! Repeating it suggests you have doubts about whether it is true.2:30... "This is how the international community should work". How egotistical! Whatever you put together is ideal, isn't it? Asshole!2:40... "larger strategy"... The red flag of doubt is raised! Yours is a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants administration... you've never had any sensible larger strategy about anything...2:55... "needs and aspirations of the Libyan people"... like not being shot? Is that a need, aspiration, or both?Last minute... cliche, cliche, cliche... holy fucking cow! This has gotta be a new world record for the number of cliches packed into a single minute.I'm gonna take a Xanax now. I need one. Maybe two.
Persuaded? That Obama is an idiot?Why yes, yes I am.
Tell that to the people in Misrata, Ajdabiya, and Benghazi, you nitwit. Qadaffi's tanks and artillery were shelling the civilians in all these places.Qatar. Bahrain. Saudi Arabia. Syria. You're a fucking putz. Guess Libya's civillians win the lottery! The rest of those civilians? Not so much. Also France, Italy, the UK, the UN, NATO, and the Arab League. "Obama." You really sound dumb.You're the one sounding dumb. NATO? In name only. Germany pulled its ships out. They're not participating. France and UK can only participate with our projection assistance and our Tomahawks taking out Libyan C&C assets to make it safe for the Euros to fly around dropping bombs on tanks in a no-fly zone. Arab League? Are you kidding me? They're sniping at us from the sidelines, per usual! UAE put a few planes in the deal. Whoopie! The Turks? Another joke. The rest of NATO? Albania, Belgium, Croatia, Czech, Denmark, Estonia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (LOL!), Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia & Spain. No show at the big rumble in Libya.Obama is a fucking joke. Within hours of hostilities commencing, his "grand coalition" had broken down, bickering over who was going to be in charge. Or rather, not in charge, because nobody wanted to the one holding the bag with the nasty clusterfuck nestled inside.
Well Jason, it's a good thing the world has you to be accusing Obama of murdering people. Libyans sure aren't doing it; they are holding rallies to thank him. It's hard for cons these days because everything Bush said about Iraq, which turned out to be false, is actually true in Libya. Just making brains melt all over the place.
"when the United States acted unilaterally The US had twice as many countries involved in OIF than it does Operation Odyssey Dawn.r did not have full international supportThere is no such thing.This Clown President, nor anyone reading, can name a conflict where "full international support" was obtained.Mainly because someone from one country is fighting someone from another.
Hmm, by being a terrorism-funding madman who stole all his country's money and oppressed his people?Where were you chickenhawks when Saddam was in power?
everything Bush said about Iraq, which turned out to be false, Hysterical.I love watching you little hypocrites in action.
I certainly condemn Obama for putting so many of our brave Tomahawk cruise missiles in harm's way, just to create safe flying conditions for stupid french fighter pilots. George Bush would never have made that calculation.
Jay-- can you list everything that Saddam was doing to his people at the time that Bush invaded? I'm looking for some correlation that the action was taken on humanitarian grounds, not as part of a neocon grand-strategy to "avenge" 9-11 and project American power in "the new century."
I certainly condemn Obama for putting so many of our brave Tomahawk cruise missiles in harm's way, Um, I guess you missed the fact that a US fighter crashed (enforcing no-fly zones carry no risk, remember) and that we are sending 2,000+ Marines.But carry on, in your silly ignorance, chickenhawk.
Jay-- can you list everything that Saddam was doing to his people Um, I'll do that when you list everything the Colonel was doing to his people.Are you really this dumb, or are you a sock puppet?
Here you go, bozo.the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies is posting 4 videos of actual torture and murder that took place under Saddam Hussein’s regimeNow quick, post some snarky reply that we invaded because 4 people were tortured.Hurry, I'm anxiously awaiting that.
I love it when the talking point trolls post here, 'cos they get their asses handed to them so royally.Feed the trolls! Stuff those useful idiot college kids and Obama ass-kissers full of real information till they wake up or grow up!No jesting here; I have just about had it with these ignorant kids acting like this is a midnight dorm discussion after a few beers and a bong. Sarah Palin! Bush! Corporations! Obama-messiah! This is the future of our fucking country we're talking about, and as it goes along, the world, as well.Research. kids. (That means more than Daily Kos and HuffPo.) Talk to some REAL working Americans, not just union thugs you meet at rallies you go to to fill your worthless lives. And either get the facts straight or shut up, 'cos we don't like community organizers and their groupies fucking up our country.
a US fighter crashedmechanical failure, but yeah, point is sound, having a military is dangerous to enlisted men. maybe we should scale back the military? and that we are sending 2,000+ Marines absolute horse-hockey, I will bet you a billion dollars not a single American boot touches Libyan soil. But I am sure you have a point, somewhere. carry on."Obama's bad because liberals said Bush was bad for doing a similar thing, that I formerly supported, so now I think the thing I supported is bad, because Obama's doing it, and liberals are hypocrites." -- conservatives, making a whole mess of sense.
I'm sorry. I can't even hit the play button. I have an allergy to bullshit.
Jay-- I am simply asking you to correlate any specific instance of civilian or humanitarian concerns that prompted the invasion of Iraq at the time it was invaded. Why was it invaded at that time and not at any time in the 20 years prior? Was there any humanitarian reason?There was not. The invasion was predicated on the imminent threat of weapons of mass destruction.
I am not persuaded. Nonetheless, I've always supported presidents when they sent troops into battle. They are the Commanders In Chief and the troops must follow orders except in exceedingly rare cases. I am not going to stop now. But I sure am holding my nose.This might seem illogical and maybe it is. But I am a veteran of an unpopular war, and am now 100% disabled because of my service. I can't bring myself to believe any president would send our troops anywhere and subject them to death or serious bodily injury for political reasons he knows are doomed to failure.Presidents and commanders in the field make mistakes. I can forgive such mistakes if those giving the orders are trying to serve the interests of our country. I cannot forgive them if those giving the orders are doing so for selfish personal political reasons.
Issob Morocco - "Jan. 20, 2013 cannot come fast enough to put this combo Jimmy Carter and Martin Van Buren back onto the street of Chicago to peddle his phony community organizing crap."Unless the ideologues in the Republican ranks foist up another Goldwater or McCain (or their version of McGovern or Kerry).Then you will say Jan 20th 2017 cannot come fast enough to see the end of Obama, an end to 8 dollar a gallon gas, and food returning to Americans tables.
MY guess is that the label "3 Sisters War" will have legs, especially in the Muslim world where female meddling in matters of tribal and nation's security is despised.
"mechanical failure, but yeah, point is sound, having a military is dangerous to enlisted men."I think you have to be an officer to be a USAF pilot.I think it's more accurate when referring to France's involvement in this as being separate from NATO. French military units are very pointedly not part of the NATO command structure.
"The invasion was predicated on the imminent threat of weapons of mass destruction."This intended to be a statement of fact and not an attempt to sound uncivil: you're either ignorant or a liar. That was not only just one of the list of reasons presented for the case for war, it actually (as you have phrased it) wasn't. Bush explicitly said the danger was not imminent and that he had no intention of allowing it to become imminent.
So, its OK to bomb another country to save lives, right?So when do we start bombing Russia? Just askin'...
So when do we start bombing Russia? Just askin'...How 'bout China? Next time they start slaughtering protesters in the outer provinces, let's launch some Tomahawks into Beijing! It's the right thing to do! /sarcasmSee. If you're gonna be a cop, then you better be prepared to enforce the law across the board. Otherwise, no one will take you seriously.
But hey. We're helping al Qaida get Qadaffi in Libya, so it's all cool! And after that, we'll all be at peace, eating unicorn spam and farting rainbows.WTF?wv: minte: Hope & Change; it's minte fresh!
Franglo said..absolute horse-hockey, I will bet you a billion dollars not a single American boot touches Libyan soil. But I am sure you have a point, somewhere. carry on.send the check.When the F-15E went in, we sent in a TRAP (tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel) Team to get them out.2 Harriers2 CH-53s with 80 Marine boots on the ground2 CV-22's (I assume with Gunship kits) so yeah, we have had Marine boots in the Libyan sand from day 2 on.And we have deniable SF teams there. Obama ordered them in, but pretends they aren't there.
Julius....I find Jameson to be much more effective and enjoyable than Xanax
Where were you chickenhawks when Saddam was in power?Indeed!
franglo,You are the one who said that Gaddafi was destabizing the region. You are abviously seriously confused about what is going on in the MidEast. Is stability your goal, or not?
When an embargo was enforced upon Iraq, it was claimed that 5000 children a month were dying because of said embargo. Thus by invading Iraq and ending the embargo, Bush saved the lives of 5000 Iraqi children per month.......It is the democratic will of the Arab people that women be depreciated, Americans despised, and Jews killed. There's nobody over there who is actually on our side. It is interesting to note that, so far, the regimes that have been toppled in Tunisia, Egypt, (and earlier in Iran) were actually pro western and had some minimal concern for human life. Gaddafi and Assad might survive because they have no respect for western values and are willing to machine gun a square full of demonstrators....I think Obama wants it both ways. If things go right, it will be because of Obama's action. If things go wrong, it will be because of Gaddafi's brutality.....I don't see any happy ending. Gaddafi is a low bar, but it's possible that his replacement will be worse and, if he survives, his disposition will not be improved. I don't blame Obama for any of this, but he seems too reactive and aloof. He has no vision or certainty or even the wish to express our own self interest. He seems to be searching for that parallel universe where he does not get blamed and everything ends happily.
You're trying to tell me that you have a video here of Obama saying something? Well, I have something for you. The trees are starting to make leaves. Now start paying attention to the things that have meaning.
franglo wrote: Libyans sure aren't doing it; they are holding rallies to thank him. Al Qaeda rallies for Obama while others burn him in effigy.That's our POTUS. What a guy!
"And we have deniable SF teams there. Obama ordered them in, but pretends they aren't there."Which, I think you would agree, is a good thing. Both them being there and denying it. I said to myself when this whole enterprise was rushed through the UN "I hope to God they've had the good sense to already have Special Forces there."
"Persuaded?"Not even going to press play.Don't give two shits what Obama thinks or says about who he's killing today.He's a murderous war criminal who should be impeached, arrested, prosecuted, found guilty and then hanged for his war crimes.
Well, it would seem the Administration has sent Kos all the requisite "it's Bush's fault" talking points to all the useless idiots and here they are.franglo said...and that we are sending 2,000+ Marinesabsolute horse-hockey, I will bet you a billion dollars not a single American boot touches Libyan soil. But I am sure you have a point, somewhere. carry on.As Uncle Saul told them, deny everything - even when the 26th MEU's departure is well-recorded.PS Funny how franglo uses the same tag line as shiloh/PB&J/some phony folksy.PPS WMDs weren't the only reason for going into Iraq, but the one Powell, Tenet, and Holbrooke thought would make the best case.franglo needs to go back to Kos and tell him his talking points sprung a leak.
"Persuaded?"No, but then neither is he.A braver speech would have painstakingly detailed the folly of military intervention, expressed our country's deep sympathy and great concern, and offered whatever humanitarian support that conceivably could relieve some of the suffering. That speech would have had the additional attribute of representing what I suspect Obama truly believes.
Crimso said... Which, I think you would agree, is a good thing. Both them being there and denying it.I was responding to Fanglo, a lib who apparently now loves antiseptic KMA. Just bombing natives, no problem...As a former rough man, with boots in my closet and a wife in uniform, I want to point out that we already have our guys on the ground and in harm's way and the President needs to make the case in public, cuz, before this is over, Widows at Ft Bragg will be getting CAO visits.War is messy, and those buffoons at the National Security Advisors office think it's a video game.
He's a murderous war criminal who should be impeached, arrested, prosecuted, found guilty and then hanged for his war crimes.Yesterday, you were tarring and feathering your enemies. Today, it's hanging.Calm down. You'll have a heart attack.
Its about time.The reasons he gives for the intervention are (a) to save innocent lives (good) and (b) to enforce a UN mandate (who cares).The only problem I have here is that neither of the above two reasons constitutes one of the traditional exceptions to the Congressional war power. Obama states that he feels the intervention was in "the national interest", but there is no "national interest" exception; just a national security one.One extra observation: whoever taped this positioned Obama left of center -- far left, originally, then center-left later in the speech. Let the metaphors and jokes commence.
No. "Our mission in Libya is clear and focused." "I have detailed the limited scope of this mission." He said things like this several times, but Barry and I are beyond me taking his word for things--I need specifics and citations. We didn't get specifics.Nice tie, though. Purple. Red and blue mixed together. Unity. Non-partisanship. Or is he alluding to purple fingertips, the consequence of the last time we used military force to stop an oppressive dictator from massacring his people? Either I'm no good with symbolism or I'm getting mixed messages.
Chef Mojo said...So when do we start bombing Russia? Just askin'...How 'bout China? Next time they start slaughtering protesters in the outer provinces, let's launch some Tomahawks into Beijing===========================And people were justly worried about the reckless Neocon John McCain urging US troops to Georgia to fight Russians for "our noble Georgian friends" or his repeated threats to bomb and go to war with Iran!For many, that was the "deal-breaker" with McCain. You can live with a dumb President, as long as they aren't trigger-happy like McCain.For people that thought two wars were enough - their votes went to Obama.Now we see Obama is "Neocon Lite"
The Drill SGT said...As a former rough man, with boots in my closet and a wife in uniform, I want to point out that we already have our guys on the ground and in harm's way and the President needs to make the case in public, cuz, before this is over, Widows at Ft Bragg will be getting CAO visits.War is messy, and those buffoons at the National Security Advisors office think it's a video game.Eloquently put, sir. My compliments to you and your wife.Coketown said...No. "Our mission in Libya is clear and focused." "I have detailed the limited scope of this mission." He said things like this several timesNot unlike Kevin Bacon in Animal House, "Remain calm, all is well."
well, he has finally figured out that he does need to look into the camera. now if he can get his head to stop twitching back and forth as if he were turning side to side to change teleprompters. and what is up with him scooted all the way to the left of the screen.
vnjagvet:You always are the epitome of class.
Gee, when I saw that Q-Daffy had spent BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS buying Tony Blair, and Sarkozy. And, then threatening Sarkozy with exposing Q-Daffy's bank transfers "if he didn't stay bought."I now know, because of Hillary's quick action, those bank transfers will never see the light of day.Libya: All coastline. But no beach front properties. No casinos. No tourism. No Starbucks. Just a terrified, though, small population of Libyans, living under a cult leader's paranoid rule. Where Q-Daffy's pictures were everywhere. Where people feared even to congregate at mosques. No schools to speak of. No coffee houses. And, living on a MOONSCAPE, where garbage was strewn about ...I'm not surprised that a "small theater" was opened. We're not in Irak. We're not among people who hate us.Whatever the future turns out to be.
Obama: In sum, by virtue of his position, a very, very dangerous person. A loose canon without objective self-awareness. When pushed, even nudged, it's downhill... without brakes. Welcome to Libya. Or wherever else Michelle wants to go.But I repeat myself.
And, to bolster an earlier post, we have a West Point study telling us the Beghazi - Tobruk area is the best recruiting ground for Al Qaeda.Somewhere, Ming the Merciless is getting the Desert Rats in formation for another go.
I'm honestly tired of the phrase, "international community." It's like "jumbo shrimp."But his closer: everyone in Libya and around the world is grateful to America -- wait a minute, I thought he said we just handed over responsibility to NATO. So doesn't that mean the gratitude goes in that direction too?This speechlet was full of chutzpahesque buffaloing and demagoguery.
Jay-- I am simply asking you to correlate any specific instance of civilian or humanitarian concerns that prompted the invasion of Iraq at the time it was invaded. Why was it invaded at that time and not at any time in the 20 years prior? Was there any humanitarian reason?There was not. The invasion was predicated on the imminent threat of weapons of mass destruction.Those pesky UN resolutions and cease fires might have had something to do with it, too.Regime change was not solely a Bush II thing.
He's off-center, and the only thing you can see that's always in the shot, besides Obama, is that plaque in the background. I'm assuming that plaque shows the Presidential Seal. Probably that has to be there, maybe for legal reasons, maybe for tradition.He's not at a desk. It looks like he's just sitting in a chair. There are some flags in the background. There's nothing that says "Oval Office"; so I suspect he was not in the White House when he recorded this. Maybe at the U.S. embassy in Brazil, maybe some other embassy. The visual of him sitting in a chair, off-center, no image of a desk to form a border under him, brings out his Alfred E. Newman look It's a terrible visual image. He looks small, or young, like a teenager. It's as if he were wearing shorts.
What I know about Libya would fit in a thimble, but... it seems to me that the only way to explain the delay in taking action was that we wanted Ghadafi to whittle down certain factions before we took out his advanced weaponry. Now, how you rank order the various factions and their probability of success in Libya is something I don't care to think about. But here's hoping the fellows at the CIA have handicapped the array properly and called this one right. Maybe.
franglo said... Jay-- I am simply asking you to correlate any specific instance of civilian or humanitarian concerns that prompted the invasion of Iraq at the time it was invadedUm, ok, here is the AUMF that Tom Daschle sponsored and John Kerry, John Edwards, and Hillary Clinton voted for:Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolution of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peaceIt was stated as fact at the time, clown.There was not. The invasion was predicated on the imminent threat of weapons of mass destruction.You are a liar.
I will bet you a billion dollars not a single American boot touches Libyan soil.They are already there.But I am sure you have a point, somewhere. carry on.Um, in your silliness, you asserted that a) all we are doing is firing tomahawks and b) said firing is not dangerous.These idiotic assertions are easily refuted.
franglo said...Jay-- I am simply asking you to correlate any specific instance of civilian or humanitarian concerns that prompted the invasion of Iraq at the time it was invadedHere is what President Bush said before we invaded:Iraqi refugees tell us how forced confessions are obtained: by torturing children while their parents are made to watch. International human rights groups have catalogued other methods used in the torture chambers of Iraq: electric shock, burning with hot irons, dripping acid on the skin, mutilation with electric drills, cutting out tongues, and rape.If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning.And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of Iraq: Your enemy is not surrounding your country, your enemy is ruling your country.And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of your liberation. Carry on in your ignorance.
Two words come to mind: Jive turkey.
it seems to me that the only way to explain the delay in taking actionThere are many possible explanations. The most likely one is that Obama needed the extra time to put the coalition together, so that he could claim this was an international effort.Probably a dumb move, but hey.
Judgment on symbolismMore cowbells are needed.
Wow.This was not an explanation.It was a victory speech. "Mission Accomplished."There is nothing better calculated to make you look ridiculous than premature celebration.Nevertheless, I hope Obama does not end up looking ridiculous on this, because many more innocent Libyans will have died if he does.
I certainly condemn Obama for putting so many of our brave Tomahawk cruise missiles in harm's way, just to create safe flying conditions for stupid french fighter pilots. George Bush would never have made that calculation.LOL. I love it. Franglo is putting you silly tantrum throwers to shame.I say come back often.
Presidents and commanders in the field make mistakes. I can forgive such mistakes if those giving the orders are trying to serve the interests of our country. I cannot forgive them if those giving the orders are doing so for selfish personal political reasons.Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography."He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it. I'm going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I'm going to have a successful presidency." Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father's shadow.Two Years Before 9/11, Candidate Bush was Already Talking Privately About Attacking Iraq, According to His Former Ghost Writer
Dental hygiene boy is cutting and pasting up a storm tonight.
I apologize if my reading and accurate, pertinent fact-gathering put your literacy and reasoning skills to shame, David.Next time I'll try to make the facts simpler, in order to better fit my beliefs. That's the best way: Ignore the real world. Pretend that what really exists is simply what I wish would exist.
Why was it invaded at that time and not at any time in the 20 years prior? Was there any humanitarian reason?Not a primary one to justify the effort of liberating Iraq. The invasion was predicated on the imminent threat of weapons of mass destruction.Wrong. We invaded Iraq because of 9-11. They had WMD programs (nuke, bio, chem) and were supplying terrorists for proxy attacks against the West. Al Queda opened our eyes to the prospect of a nuclear (or other WMD) 9-11.
Ritmo: I apologize if my reading and accurate, pertinent fact-gathering put your literacy and reasoning skills to shame, David.I'm reminded that its time again for our weekly PSA.For those who feel a need to waste their time responding to RitmoLitard, via Pogo:"it's worth reposting a Ritmo comment from one earlier last week, displaying what he's up to at Althouse, and why he comments here:"Ritmo Brasileiro said...It's good to know that the stupidest threads are just ripe for the threadjacking. I'll be sure to leave a trail of turds on every one of the brain droppings here that suit my fancy. Getting you shit-eaters to complain about the taste after opening your mouths wide and saying "Ahhhh..." to every bad idea under the sun is very satisfying, I must admit.- 10/16/10 10:28 AMRitmo is just here to troll you and spike threads critical of the Left. Your time is better spent arguing with a fork.
if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it.Again the irony of having political "capital" ie 90% job approval rating 'cause cheney/bush were asleep at the wheel on 9/11 and then foolishly attacking Iraq unprovoked.Love it when a plan comes together. ;)Further irony (8) years after his incumbent daddy was bounced from office w/37.5% of the vote, jr. gets appointed president w/47.9%.The obvious: America survives despite itself!
Looks us in the eyes LOL... it's pretty obvious from the video that he's looking beside the camera at the script. Usually, public figure politician types are better at that sort of thing so it's not as obvious. I'm not surprised anymore that Obama's again proven all hype and disappointing performance, even in so menial a part of the job as reading a prompter convincingly.
[I, Barack Obama am not] “opposed to all war,” only “dumb war, rash war.”“I suffer no illusions about Moammar Gadhafi. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions. … He’s a bad guy. The world and the Libyan people would be better off without him.”“Gadhafi poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors … the Libyan economy is in shambles … the Libyan military is a fraction of its former strength and … in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.”Barack Obama (2002); some names were changed, but otherwise ...
I see that Cannonfodder Fen, one of Abu Ghraib's brightest and best, went on leave for R & R from his usual regimen of raping Arab men, torturing their women and killing their children, in order to post his very own manifesto. He does this a bit obsessively, you see. When your life consists of nothing more than bullying people, well something that trivial is all you've got. If Fen were capable of writing his own screeds, he'd be the Unabomber. Unfortunately, we must instead be subjected to his obsessive plagiarism and inability to come up with any argument whatsoever.
When a country is beset with many a grave internal problem a unscrupulous leader will START A WAR TO DISTRACT THEM FROM THE PROBLEMS. And that is what Obama, Hillary, and Gates have done.
Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said... I apologize if my reading and accurate, pertinent fact-gathering put your literacy and reasoning skills to shame,Um, unconfirmed assertions by former ghost writers are not "facts"But then again, you're not that bright.So nobody is surprised.
LOL. I love it. Franglo is putting you silly tantrum throwers to shame.By falsely asserting that all the US is doing is launching tomahawks?You're like the stupid little pet that is rather easily entertained.
'cause cheney/bush were asleep at the wheel on 9/11 Ah yes, that silly assertion again.Just imagine the reaction by ignorant people like you if President Bush said that cockpit doors would be steel reinforced and pilots should carry handguns and aggressive searches should take place at airports prior to 9/11.I'm sure you would have been there cheering it all on.Thank you for proving yet again you are not serious or sane.
Holy shit, it's like watching him inside his head voting present. Erkle, is clearly speaking out of both sides of his mouth and both are lies. The Muslim Brotherhood is salivating at the thought Qaddafi might be gone to open up a power vacuum for them to operate in. Is this what Erkle is trying to facilitate? Because they are already at work in Egypt. I've already heard that AQ is working with the Brotherhood to send their tentacles of influence into the region. This guy is an incompetent ass who clearly does not understand the nuance that is changing beneath his notice.
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