March 31, 2011

"Has the debate over Walker's collective bargaining law caused divisions in your life?"

The Wisconsin State Journal asks its readers. The comments over there so far aren't very interesting. Those who actually answer the question mainly express antagonism toward the terrible people who support the governor. My guess is that the anti-Walkerites are so passionate and vocal that anyone who doesn't agree just keeps quiet... especially in Madison.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the April 5th elections. Is there a silent majority supporting the governor? If there is, and they take the trouble to vote, it will throw cold water on the protest passions. If the anti-Walker side wins decisively — particularly in the Supreme Court race — it will, I think, go a long way toward undoing the results of last fall's election. And that would be even before the state Supreme Court invalidates the public-union-taming law.

46 comments:

Scott M said...

If the anti-Walker side wins decisively — particularly in the Supreme Court race — it will, I think, go a long way toward undoing the results of last fall's election.

If so, it would seem to expose an enormous chink in the armor of our chosen system of government to a whole new crop of potential apathetics.

MadisonMan said...

I'm not certain the Supreme Ct will invalidate the law. I think it was sloppy (or canny, I'm not sure) of the Republicans to allow the possibility of it occurring.

Skyler said...

Terrorism works.

Kevin said...

Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi made the amended ruling at 8:15 a.m. She has already issued an emergency order blocking Wisconsin’s secretary of state from publishing the law. Sumi called a hearing Tuesday to weigh District Attorney Ismael Ozanne’s lawsuit alleging Republican legislative leaders violated Wisconsin’s open meetings law during debate on the proposal.

Sumi re-issued her order on Tuesday — and this time she has warned that anyone who violates it will face sanctions. She amended the ruling on Thursday to read, “Further, based on the briefs of counsel, the uncontroverted testimony, and the evidence received at the March 29 evidentiary hearing, it is hereby declared that 2011 Wisconsin Act 10 has not been published …”

I bet her son's left-wing political lobbying firm gets a big, big, union contract next year!

bagoh20 said...

You get the government you deserve, and the bills that go with it. Think it over Wisconsin. If you want to live in a bankrupt state, you can just come to California, we know how to do it right. 11% income tax, 10% sales tax, and still broker than a John Steinbeck character, but hey it's sunny and 75 degrees today.

Drew said...

My guess is that the anti-Walkerites are so passionate and vocal that anyone who doesn't agree just keeps quiet... especially in Madison.

It does seem helpful to keep quiet. I have seen divisions among the people I know, and it seems that the moment one of them sticks his neck out and admits support for Walker, there is a swarm of anger that descends on him.

The interesting thing is that the sides aren't equally angry. The anger comes from the pro-union side. The pro-Walker side responds with resolve. Resolve to fix this financial mess, unions-be-damned.

Resolve is far more attractive.

Class factotum said...

My lefty husband wanted to be in the Milwaukee paper's story about the same issue. I said fine as long as he left me out of it, including my name.

He told the reporter that his lefty parents dislike me because of my religion and politics but that my conservative Catholic family has been nothing but welcoming to him, including engaging him in polite political conversation in a sincere effort to understand his point of view.

He said we argued about the issue but no big deal.

From that, the reporter wrote that our marriage was "strained" and "tense."

She did not mention the families. Just described us inaccurately. Which was why I didn't want to be involved in the first place, as it was obvious from her previous reporting that she definitely has an angle that she is pushing.

My husband said maybe she just wanted to make the story better, to which I replied that "reporting" does not mean "exaggerating." Exaggerating is for bloggers like me who write creative non fiction. Not for reporters.

Dad29 said...

Is there a silent majority supporting the governor?

Yes, and far more than any "reports" indicate. Sykes, who is an alarmist on the election, was reading emails from teachers and students (different schools, etc.) indicating a VERY high level of support for Prosser.

I can't say often enough that crossing into Dane County is like crossing a space/time warp. My sympathy to you...

JohnJ said...

"And that would be even before the state Supreme Court invalidates the public-union-taming law."

On what basis would the WI Supreme Court invalidate the new collective bargaining rules? Is the issue the law itself or the manner in which it was passed by the legislature?

Drew said...

I can't say often enough that crossing into Dane County is like crossing a space/time warp. My sympathy to you...

This is most certainly true. Unfortunately, we're now talking about an election, and union interests are involved. So I just assume it'll be rigged in Koppenburg's favor.

Simon said...

"Is there a silent majority supporting the governor? If there is, and they take the trouble to vote, it will throw cold water on the protest passions. "

Posit: The unions aren't dummies; they have to be aware that this is a ruinous possibility. Question: Given the stakes, given that losing is not an option, how do they react?

Hoosier Daddy said...

My lefty husband wanted to be in the Milwaukee paper's story about the same issue. I said fine as long as he left me out of it, including my name.

Unlike some, all my friends are conservatives because I believe in birds of a feather should flock together. Mrs. Hoosier is a political agnostic but leans right when asked about issues which is why I chose her over a leftwing supermodel. Maintaining steadfast relationships is hard enough without walking on eggshells because one's spouse or friend thinks the social welfare state is the path to paradise.

Triangle Man said...

but hey it's sunny and 75 degrees today.

Warm weather breeds sloth and attracts vagabonds.

GulfofMexico said...

Your guess is correct. They know your type is outnumbered in Madison at least 2-to-1. If you let them know you are a live Walker-supporting human, they come at you like zombies.

Drew said...

Locally we have a couple school referendums to vote on. Both involve very large expenses for taxpayers. I could actually see the vote here going to Kloppenburg but the referendums going down in flames.

(Honestly, I didn't even need to know what the referendums were for. I have a knee-jerk response to anything that involves increased spending. Vote no.)

edutcher said...

From what I read, the unions are going overdrive into goon mode trying to suppress any signs of support for Walker.

What happens at the polls will be interesting. A repeat of Philadelphia (and its subsequent shielding of "my people") may be one more nail in Little Zero's political coffin.

Shouting Thomas said...

New York State is also facing severe budget cuts, but they are being enacted by a Democratic Governor, Andrew Cuomo.

The reaction in New York is oddly muted.

It's the same, apparently, with the president going to war.

When Democrats do it... oh, well.

When Republicans do it... the world is coming to an end!

Althouse, this is the result of the sexual politics hysteria of the left, including the gay marriage hysteria.

"The Republicans are stopping me from fucking the way I want to!" has become the psychotic mantra of the left.

When I'm confronted with the mantra in NYC and Woodstock, I usually observe that the individual mouthing it has personal problems that are causing the unsatisfactory fucking... generally an inability to get along with another human being.

But, it has become the habit of the left to blame this human disability on Republicans. All fucking problems are caused by the oppressive Republicans.

bagoh20 said...

"given that losing is not an option, how do they react?"

The left is definitely not a good looser, or winner for that matter. Either way, the result is dangerous, because that's what democracy looks like.

Jana said...

@HoosierDaddy

Insightful. I live in metro Seattle, and dated a swath of goody-goody liberal squishes. By goodness I finally found a rock-ribbed conservative hottie and we married post haste. For someone as passionate about politics as I am, being married to someone with strong liberal leanings would have been problematic, I think. It was tough enough dating them.

Marti said...

I think Walker supporters are silent and, hopefully, still represent a majority of Wisconsin. Why am I silent? I left FB because all of my friends are so out-spoken left and have no interest in real debate. Friends have made personal attacks, even though I haven't. My kids go to a public elementary school in Madison where teachers wear recall Walker t-shirts to class and the whole class boos everytime his name is mentioned. We ate at one of our favorite restaurants even though it was loaded with Democratic political signage. We went to a concert only to hear the singer rally the liberal crowd throughout. There is no rational place for thoughtful debate in Madison, although I thoroughly enjoy this blog.

garage mahal said...

Remember Repubs - you guys vote on Weds. GOTV!

Shouting Thomas said...

Remember Repubs - you guys vote on Weds. GOTV!

Remember, brownshirt thug, garage...

Well, there's nothing to remember, except that you are a brownshirt thug, an inveterate liar... and damned proud of it.

The voters of Wisconsin can't allow a brain dead thug like you to win. There will be hell to pay.

kate said...

That's interesting, Marti, as I have a friend who also left FB, but because of the grief she was getting from her conservative friends. She now blogs, instead.

Regardless, I've also had many long discussions around this on FB with friends whom don't agree. We've aired it out and have come to see some points on the other's side. We've agreed to disagree, overall, and still remain close. Probably closer.

Carol_Herman said...

Oh, please. When I was just a kid. And, my parents had a retail store (Joel's Pants for Men and Boys). A customer came in. In those days marriages were "forever." And, the woman whispered to my mom ... while her husband was trying on a pair of pants ... "that she took care of his vote but good. Because she always voted opposite what he said he was going to select.") I found this very, very funny.

Do some families have issues? Don't ask me. Ask Tolstoy. Because he said "only happy marriages are alike. Every unhappy one is unhappy for different reasons."

Nice to be happy.

So few are, though.

Like Orson Bean said, when he asked a Vermont neighbor, who had just lost his wife of 50 years "do you miss her?" And, the retort was "why, I never liked her much."

The good thing about fighting families is that you can go out. And, not turn back. (That "Pillar of Salt" story is just tears.) March on. Fewer tears.

Politics isn't the only button crazy families push, either.

garage mahal said...

The voters of Wisconsin can't allow a brain dead thug like you to win. There will be hell to pay.

I'm flattered you think I'm so influential pouting thomas. I still think Republicans are in store for a good thumping this time around though. *ba dump*

Hardly scientific, but my dear mother in tiny town Wisconsin sez the hard right Republicans she swims with on Saturdays are furious with Walker and his budget plans. She said she was shocked to see so many Kloppenburg signs around town. We'll see!

Scott M said...

I'm flattered you think I'm so influential pouting thomas. I still think Republicans are in store for a good thumping this time around though.

Whatever happens, it will pale in comparison to the "thumping" your side took in November last, and will likely see some shades of in 2012.

James said...

I skipped my daughter's elementary school PTA meeting last week.I was pretty sure a discussion of this law would surface in some form and I didn't want to say anything intemperate.

One of the school's secretaries lives a few blocks from me and she has a huge blue and white Walker vs Workers sign on her front lawn.

One teacher, who is also the union rep at the school, has a son who'll attend Madison in the fall and she suggested that he rooms with my son. So right now I'm just laying low.

garage mahal said...

Whatever happens, it will pale in comparison to the "thumping" your side took in November last, and will likely see some shades of in 2012.

That's interesting, it's only taken 2 months for that tea party honeymoon to turn into 30% approval ratings. What happened you think?

shoutingthomas said...

That's interesting, it's only taken 2 months for that tea party honeymoon to turn into 30% approval ratings. What happened you think?

I'll stake my bet on the upcoming elections.

You're going to get your brownshirt ass whipped, garbage.

Will you go away and thup up then? Or will you defy the will of the voters again like the brownshirt thug you are?

Scott M said...

Doesn't matter, garage. Combat between roughly equal opponents comes down to initiative. It's on our side and yours doesn't appear to be doing anything but digging the holes that made it so deeper.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Is there a silent majority supporting the governor? If there is, and they take the trouble to vote, it will throw cold water on the protest passions.

I predict it will increase them. "By Any Means Necessary" means exactly what it says.

garage mahal said...

Doesn't matter, garage. Combat between roughly equal opponents comes down to initiative. It's on our side and yours doesn't appear to be doing anything but digging the holes that made it so deeper.

That doesn't appear to happening in Wisc. Dems are lapping Republicans on the recalls - Hopper is already toast with 30 days left. Kapanaske is next, then Olsen, and maybe even Darling. Three flips the Senate.

Scott M said...

...look into my eye...

Calypso Facto said...

Gonna put a Prosser sign in my Monona yard today, garage. Want to start a pool on how long it lasts? I got 4 hours.

MadisonMan said...

Calypso, I've seen one on a house on Franklin for at least two weeks now. There's a Brusewitz sign there too.

chickelit said...

garage said: Hardly scientific, but my dear mother in tiny town Wisconsin sez the hard right Republicans she swims with on Saturdays are furious with Walker and his budget plans.

My mom's vote will cancel your mom's vote so there!

Canuck said...

"What happens at the polls will be interesting."

I don't think anything interesting will happen at the polls aside from people voting.

The polls are already open. Early voting has been happening for a couple of weeks for this election.

carrie said...

I am one of the many people in Madison silently supporting Walker. There is nothing to be gained by speaking openly in support of Walker in Madison, although we certainlyl speak about it among ouselves. However, we are out there and I hope we all show up on election day. I think the most obvious measure of Walker's support in Madison is the fact that substantailly all of the protesters in Madison were teachers, union members, state and municipal employees, students and their their families--as far as I could tell the rest of the middle class was mostly missing.

The Crack Emcee said...

My guess is that the anti-Walkerites are so passionate and vocal that anyone who doesn't agree just keeps quiet... especially in Madison.

I don't know if that's a statement about how civil you are or how cowardly.

Whatever it is, in this situation, it's sad. (Like Skyler said, "terrorism works".) And, for those who say they're just being civil, it's condescending not to speak up:

How can anyone discover they're wrong if you don't tell them why?

David said...

Divisions? Hell yes. Two of my kids are Wisconsin teachers and one is a TA at UW Madison.

galdosiana said...

My guess is that the anti-Walkerites are so passionate and vocal that anyone who doesn't agree just keeps quiet... especially in Madison.

This is exactly right. Particularly on campus, anyone who even SLIGHTLY disagrees with the militant left is immediately ostracized and brandished as an idiot and traitor to "the cause".

There is no doubt that the political situation has affected friendships. There was an article a couple of weeks ago about Facebook friendships being destroyed over this issue. In fact, I've had a couple of "friends" delete and block me from their FB pages when they found out that I supported the bill.

Trooper York said...

We have many liberal friends as you would expect. We don't discuss politics as might imagine.

You can be friendly with liberals.
Just treat them like your much loved retarded child.

pst314 said...

"There is nothing to be gained by speaking openly in support of Walker in Madison"

Remember that t-shirt from a few years ago? "My car was keyed by a person of tolerance and diversity".

Freeman Hunt said...

No, not this debate.

Other matters of politics, yes. Not with family, but there have been plenty of "friends" who aren't interested in being friends when they find out my views. Even if I've never spoken of those views with them, and they've only happened upon them online.

But mostly my liberal friends don't care. A few of them have even had my back in a big way against the more fascistic liberals in our midst.

A couple occasionally ask me in fascination about my political opinions because they have never heard them or any of the reasoning behind them from anyone else. One friend invited me over once specifically to spend a few hours grilling me about what conservatives think about different things. I was glad that she was curious.

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