February 20, 2011

What's your sign? Scott Walker is "assassinating the middle class — he's getting us."

I'm struck by "Et tu, Brute" — the most famous assassination quote — in the context of Scott Walker...

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... so I engage this young man in a conversation about how to interpret his sign, which lists Walker along with Judas and — of all people — Brett Favre:



ADDED: The sign in the back says: "All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms it is TREASON! — Abraham Lincoln." Having these 2 assassination signs together disturbed me. A couple days ago, I saw a sign that read "SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS."

115 comments:

shoutingthomas said...

Another group of white supremacists.

Issob Morocco said...

Sign the lady with sunglasses up for Fargo 2. Yaa. Eh.

RuyDiaz said...

The Brutus references bug me: the assassination of Julius Caesar was justified, a nearly-successful attempt to save the Roman republic.

Caius Julius Caesar was one of the worst moral monsters in history. The coldest, most cynical and manipulative human being I've ever read about. (And I've read biographies of Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, and Mao.) Complete scum.

shoutingthomas said...

So, this is just a mass rally for greater white skin privilege for a group of white supremacists.

Why isn't the media covering this angle?

Ann Althouse said...

"Sign the lady with sunglasses up for Fargo 2. Yaa. Eh."

That's the lady in the previous post. I mistakenly put that code here at first. Check out the video now.

But, yah, people talk like that around here. (Or, actually, Minnesota is different from Wisconsin at a level that people here can detect.)

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

I like how you were too giddy to get that the theme was betrayal, not assassination.

It must have been annoying to run into a kid who wasn't as dumb as you might have hoped he'd be.

Ann Althouse said...

"Caius Julius Caesar was one of the worst moral monsters in history. The coldest, most cynical and manipulative human being I've ever read about. (And I've read biographies of Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, and Mao.) Complete scum."

To be fair to the young man, his reference was the Shakespeare play, not actual history. That gives some insight into the schools. Kids are much more likely to know about Caesar from literature than from the study of world history.

I'm temped to make a gender remark, but I'll let you infer it.

The Drill SGT said...

shoutingthomas said...
Why isn't the media covering this angle?


Professional courtesy?

perhaps they belong to The Newspaper Guild, the leftist Journalist union?

AJ Lynch said...

Thank God for govt jobs or there'd be no middle class? Is that his message?

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

I have to read my Caesar biographies more, but don't forget the depths of corruption in the system from which he arose. Plus, if you want to place him in a political line of succession, keep in mind what happened to the Gracchi.

The elites in charge were ruthless at protecting themselves and their own interests at the expense of Rome itself - much like the problem you guys are having with the GOP.

roesch-voltaire said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AllenS said...

I really wish that you would ask this important question in your interviews with the protestors, Professor: "Are you a teacher?" If not, I'd like to know what these people do for a living. Probably nothing, since they;re probably going to school. Why are they going to school? Because they don't know nothin.

Maguro said...

I like how you were too giddy to get that the theme was betrayal, not assassination.

Yeah, the inclusion of Brett Favre makes that clear, but it still doesn't make any sense.

As an analogy, it's nonsensical since a Republican governor and a public employees union are natural political enemies to begin with.

Just another example of a liberal writing a political slogan without really thinking it through.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

Is Althouse trying to say that wimmin teachers prefer we learn about the world through letters and love stories instead of through the historical record?

My, was that cryptic.

At first, I guessed that maybe she was trying to implicate Cleopatra in this whole mess.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

"We do want more, and when it becomes more, we shall still want more. And we shall never cease to demand more until we have received the results of our labor." - Samuel Gompers

Even if it bankrupts YOU I might add.

via Maggie's Farm

Fen said...

I guess it is fun to cherry pick a few of the extreme signs

Cherry-picked? The entire page of this blog is filled with extreme signs by "smart" liberals.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

it's nonsensical since a Republican governor and a public employees union are natural political enemies to begin with.

Listen to the kid, Maguro. He says it's a betrayal of the middle class, (whatever that means - but the point stands).

It's hard to argue that living standards would have risen to the extent that they have without unions. 72-hour standard workweek, anyone?

I think anyone opining on how to more properly go about teaching should be better at listening to and understanding where the students are coming from. Just my opinion. There's an obvious limit to that, but you can't be completely dismissive of how they think and be a successful teacher.

Lincolntf said...

How long until the swastika is the official symbol of "Progressivism". They can't seem to assemble in any number without displaying at least one of them.

Fen said...

As an analogy, it's nonsensical since a Republican governor and a public employees union are natural political enemies to begin with.

And that Walker has always been this way:

"but to people who have watched the governor’s political rise through the years, the events of the week feel like a Scott Walker rerun"

http://www.chequerboard.org/2011/02/everyone-should-have-seen-this-coming/

The "smart" liberal might as well complain that Troy Aikman betrayed him.

roesch-voltaire said...

While a few of the signs were extreme,the majority did not reflect this view, and many of the folks I talked with seem to understand the issues. In fact more people of color are showing up, and and after this news item a new coalition of non-union folks will show up today: Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill proposes sweeping changes to the state's Medicaid programs, changes that could affect many of the 1.2 million state residents enrolled in public health programs like BadgerCare, Family Care, and SeniorCare. The provisions would allow the administration to revamp and even gut the programs without following state laws or the normal legislative processes.

RuyDiaz said...

To he-with-the-insulting-moniker:

Ah, old, chiseled Julius, where to begin....

When his only daughter Julia died, he broke from tradition, and instead of mourning in private, threw games in her name, in an attempt to agrandize himself. Meanwhile, in private, he was worried about the effect her death would have on his alliance with Pompey. Not a moment of grief is ever recorded. That's the kind of man people celebrate to this day. (Do notice that the founding fathers had a poor opinion of Julius.)

It is not that the Roman Republic was flawed, and its ruling class was violent and greedy, which it was. It is that CJC never in his life even attempted to live up to its standards, and threw himself to the pursuit of absolute power by the time he was 15.

The last part of your post I'll just ignore, as it was done in bad faith.

P.S. Inference made, professor.

shoutingthomas said...

Althouse, you might want to extend your understanding of leftist craziness by taking a look at demand for conformity to leftist dogma in the arts.

The 48 Hour Film Project Goes Green!

It not only in academia that far leftist dogma is a requirement for employment.

Ann Althouse said...

"I really wish that you would ask this important question in your interviews with the protestors, Professor: "Are you a teacher?" If not, I'd like to know what these people do for a living. Probably nothing, since they;re probably going to school. Why are they going to school? Because they don't know nothin."

I think this young man was probably a student. I will ask more people if they are teachers. I'm just not an aggressive interviewer. I don't look to trap people. I'm trying to get them to explain what they are saying and ask a question or 2 that might prompt them to look at what they are saying from a different perspective. Remember, I'm a teacher.

Fen said...

Ritmo: I think anyone opining on how to more properly go about teaching should be better at listening to and understanding where the students are coming from.

Its obvious the kid didn't know who Walker was until the weekend.

Old Dad said...

Rat,

Dumber than normal:

Julius, towering historical figure, murdered--Jesus, towering historical figure, executed--Favre, washed up has been.

One of these things is not like the other.

Fen said...

"All that serves labor serves the nation.
All that harms it is TREASON!"

And whats the penalty for treason?

What a lovely group of brownshirts you have up in Madison.

Paco Wové said...

"...Walker's budget repair bill proposes sweeping changes to the state's Medicaid programs,..."

I see R-V has received today's talking points.

jfm said...

Hello Ann,

Two questions I'd like you to ask:

1. Are you a teacher?

2. Did you vote in the last Wisconsin general election?

You are doing a wonderful job. Thank you.

Fen said...

Its funny how they are still parroting Racheal Maddow days after she was debunked.

Bob must still be on the phone yelling at the DNC staffer that gave him bogus talking points.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

It is not that the Roman Republic was flawed, and its ruling class was violent and greedy, which it was. It is that CJC never in his life even attempted to live up to its standards, and threw himself to the pursuit of absolute power by the time he was 15.

I imagine that having to make your way in a system perpetuated by the violent and greedy will do that to you.

As far as Caesar's reaction to his daughter's death, cite the recorded responses of historians of his day or other contemporaries. Roman society gave fathers a lot of power over their families and children - going so far as allowing them to kill them if they saw fit. And to judge his grief and, by extension, his feelings for her, by today's standards is ahistorical nonsense.

And finally, people didn't used to think much of Augustus either. I assume that they imputed whatever they thought of his leadership style on to his character, as well. Nowadays, of course, we know he deserves much better.

You righties used to take the link between individual morality and social norms much more seriously. Or at least, you used to pretend you did.

edutcher said...

Hmmm...

Having read the play and the Commentaries on the Gallic War, Julie never struck me as all that bad in comparison to some other people of his time. Now, Crassus, his one-time partner, or Caligula or Nero (you can slip in a better Christian analogy with him) - they were nasty.

PS Only Ritmo would make excuses.

David said...

Well, you know assassination is on their minds. The fascist scum. I know projection when I see it.

rhhardin said...

Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill proposes sweeping changes to the state's Medicaid programs, changes that could affect many of the 1.2 million state residents enrolled in public health programs like BadgerCare, Family Care, and SeniorCare.

I assume BadgerCare is ob/gyn.

James said...

So let's see....

Wisconsin has a structural deficit approaching $3.3 billion for the 2011-13 period yet the budget is in balance this year?

Apparently these lefties don't know the meaning of "structural deficit" especially when the state constitution requires a balanced budget each year.

I'm a black resident of Wisconsin (Racine County) and I support what Walker is doing. Many of the people in my circle also support him because they realize that the path we're on is unsustainable. Maybe I'll turn up next weekend with my Tea Party placards.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

Dumber than normal:

Julius, towering historical figure, murdered--Jesus, towering historical figure, executed--Favre, washed up has been.

One of these things is not like the other.


It seems Old Dud is not so old that he can't remember letting Sesame Street provide his education for him.

Of course, Favre is not the one being indicted by the poster -- but the other individual not targeted with assassination: Scott Walker.

Further, you are confusing subject with object, Dummy. The kid is not saying that Caesar and Jesus should have been assassinated, but that they were betrayed by the people he indicts. The proper analogy is to Brutus and Pilate, who did the murdering/executing.

You seem to feeling especially stupid this morning. Why is that?

David said...

Now, let's be nice to Brett Favre. There's reconciliation in the air in Packerland. Brett will be forgiven (though perhaps not by Deanna.)

q12345q6789 said...

@ Ann Althouse:

I was wondering if you have looked at the analytics for your blog since this whole protest event blew up nationwide (and apparently Dems and the Uni's are fomenting a nationwide spread of this protest to other states as well).
I've seen a few people, other than the usual (Insty, etc.) directing to your site. Have you noticed a huge uptick in traffic? Or a lot of link-backs?
Just curious if this is your big-time blow-up moment (you could become the Wisconsin Drudge! If Wisconsin would ever deign to have such a thing, that is...).

David said...

While we are on the Romans:

Sic transit gloria mundi.

Now everyone go home and have a nice cup of tea.

Paul Zrimsek said...

I can't tell whether it's Bush or Cheney behind all that facial hair, but surely no one else would be throwing around loose accusations of TREASON!?

Meade said...

Let's also not forget that for Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers, Brent Favre's betrayal was the best thing to happen in 15 years.

James said...

In fact more people of color are showing up, and and after this news item a new coalition of non-union folks will show up today: Gov. Scott Walker's budget repair bill proposes sweeping changes to the state's Medicaid programs, changes that could affect many of the 1.2 million state residents enrolled in public health programs like BadgerCare, Family Care, and SeniorCare.

Its condescending comments like the one quoted above that alienate blacks rather than persuade them to rally for a "cause" that sees them merely as pawns.

RuyDiaz said...

(Julius Caesar's aside continued)

You imagine far too much. I suggest you try educating yourself, instead of imagining things.

Your request to cite the recorded responses of historians or contemporaries will not be granted. That's a cheap debating tactic in which you make your opponent do research, while you do nothing. After your opponent does research, you simply ask for more research, and hope to tire him out. So, no.

But if you rely want to know more, I suggest you begin with Adrian Woldsworthy's Caesar: Life of a Colossus. The biography is mostly positive, giving Caesar the benefit of the doubt at every turn. That doesn't matter, however, as I draw my own conclusions, expecting historians to be historians, and not enlightened leaders who lead me to the truth.

Finally, I do take into account the time and society in which he lived. It is that, even by those standards, he was a louse.

DADvocate said...

How do these government workers view themselves as labor. They're not labor. They live off the work of labor. I resent the "attack on the middle class" meme they're using too. They the person who did nothing on the group project at school but got the same grade as those who did all the work.

Pogo said...

Another vaguely-educated young man, whose understanding of history is limited to what he learned on TV or in the movies, and viewed through the lens of socialism as taught by Dewey-trained educrats.

He is more evidence why the teachers union needs to be busted into a million little pieces.

Old Dad said...

Rat,

Theory of holes.

Grammar and logic aren't your strong suits. Stick to bullshit and flimflam.

The kid made several obvious category errors, but who realy gives a shit? It's a friggin silly sign. Althouse sucker punched you--and you keep coming back for more.

Remember the little civility ditty that you leftists were singing? If the poor kid were a Tea Partier you'd be skinning him right now.

Pathetic.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

It is not a cheap debating tactic to ask someone to back up their assertions with facts or evidence.

I really enjoy Christian Meier's Caesar: A Biography, but admit that I have gotten sidetracked with it far too often by my interest in Augustus and some of the others, whom I find far more interesting.

Finally, why should I care what standards of the day Caesar lived up to or supposedly failed at? They were superficial, flawed and not as progressive as what we live by today.

And more importantly, these standards did not preserve what the Romans admired most and what we admire most about them: Their republic.

They were supplanted by the standards of someone else whose personal morality offended those of the day: Christ.

Steve Pierson said...

"I assume BadgerCare is ob/gyn."

Thanks for the chuckle, rhhardin.

shiloh said...

AA, re: the current fuss in WI less is more ... unless, of course, one is going for a Pulitzer Prize ;)

Interesting what creates a fuss/buzz in America ~ lindsay, britney, paris, the baloon boy, 24/7 mama grizzly, bachmann, wingers hating on Michelle Obama, birthers, truthers, deathers, 10thers, 14thers, teabaggers, yahoo secessionists yada yada yada

Americans have the attention span of a peanut as we've already forgotten about Gabrielle Giffords.

hmm, How many children die from malnutrition daily in America? ok, that's not as interesting as justin bieber, eh

and so it goes ...

apologies to peanuts

Steve Pierson said...

"I assume BadgerCare is ob/gyn."

Thanks for the chuckle, rhhardin.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

Ok, Dud. You confused Jesus with Judas, Caesar with Brutus and declare me illogical (and apparently ungrammatical, too).

I'd ask how exactly was I "sucker punched", but I'm pretty sure I can't debate someone else's fantasies.

Patrick said...

I took Latin for five years of high school. We studied Caesar's "De Bello Gallico" for all five years, and Cicero's "Pro Lege Manilia" for the last two.

Pro Lege Manilia was a bit of lacy rococo next to the workmanlike De Bello Gallico.

Whatever else you may say about Caesar, he wrote to be read by the nearly illiterate.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

I've run across the Goldsworthy book before, but decided not to purchase it. It seems more authoritative though, so thanks for the recommendation. After going over some of the reviews, I'm tempted to pick it up.

madAsHell said...

Walker cut $140 million in taxes....and is betraying the middle class?

Old Dad said...

Rat wrote:

"You seem to feeling especially stupid this morning. Why is that?"

And then he whines that I "apparently find him ungrammatical."

It's not apparent, it's obvious.

Keep digging.

Fen said...

Ritmo: I'd ask how exactly was I "sucker punched", but I'm pretty sure I can't debate someone else's fantasies.

You need to explain how the kid was betrayed by Troy Aikman.

Maybe then you'll get it.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

The follower of Judas (I mean Jesus) and the defender of Brutus (I mean Caesar) wrote:

"You seem to feeling especially stupid this morning. Why is that?"

And then he whines that I "apparently find him ungrammatical."

It's not apparent, it's obvious.

Keep digging.


It's called a typo, Pharisee. The omission of the simple word, "be", which any fool would catch and any decent editor would not allow to obscure the thought expressed with it. It's also something that I don't think any literate person would obsess over.

In what other ways have I failed to live up to your lofty intellectual expectations this morning, Old Dud? I don't know what your standards are, exactly, but you did make a point of invoking Big Bird or one of his friends earlier.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

As long as the grammarian is busily poring over short tracts of text, someone should alert him to the fact that "apparently" describes his own observation, not what he found.

Old Dad said...

Rat,

Drop the shovel.

Pogo said...

But Old Dad, it's his only tool, and he thinks it's a scepter.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

Old Dud's persistence reminds me of when Bill O'Reilly declared his detractors to be "pinheads" for reminding him that gravity provides a better explanation for the tides than does the existence of a supernatural divine being.

One of the best images here says:

"You're using science to explain that?

You're coming off as desperate to me."

Lol.

Go take a nap, Dud.

Conservatives 4 Better Dental Hygiene said...

Haha. That's the subtlest I've seen Pogo get in years.

Usually he thinks he's using his rhetoric like a scalpel, while wielding it more like a hacksaw.

;-)

Michael K said...

madAsHell said...
Walker cut $140 million in taxes....and is betraying the middle class?


I can't tell if this comment is pro or anti Walker but the "tax cuts" are incentives for business that have not yet been implemented.

ACR said...

"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms it is TREASON! — Abraham Lincoln."

Honest Abe. No person has more bogus quotes attributed to his name. It shouldn't surprise anyone what the above quote is bogus.

I hope that was a physics or trig teacher with that sign and not an English or history teacher.

Chris said...

Because they've never experienced real hardship in their lives - and I'm talking hardship at the Chinese activist end of the spectrum - they think they're playing a game. They're not.

mulrain1 said...

My sons, 20 and 24 wrote those signs, and of all the people that commented on them only one person perverted the meaning.
Brutus, betrayed his king,
Judas betray his King,
Farve betrayed his fans,
and Scott Walker is betraying the middle class.
The Lincoln quotes were intended to enlighten repbulicans that the first republican president was supported of labor (the working class).
The meanings are obvious most people.

Pogo said...

@mulrain1

So what was the betrayal?

Your son made an assertion, not an argument. Typical lefty.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Meade said...

Let's also not forget that for Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers, Brent Favre's betrayal was the best thing to happen in 15 years.

Yeah, well that whole Judas thing worked out pretty well for Christians too.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms it is TREASON! — Abraham Lincoln.

Can anyone find an actual cite as to when/where Lincoln said this? I've seen claims that this is a false quote, but haven't been able to determine for sure.

I only ask because I went looking for a larger context to understand exactly what he was saying, and why, but have not found it.

mulrain1 said...

The signs in question belong to my sons. The betrayal sign was created by my 20 year old.
Of all the people that commented on the signs only one person could not make the obvious connection.
Brutus betrayed his king.
Judas betrayed his King.
Brett Farve betrayed his fans.
Scott Walker is betraying the middle class.
The Lincoln quote was intended to enlighten republicans that the first republican president supported the working class.
I am amazed the length some people will go to avoid the obvious.
Oh and by the way. A. Lincoln once jumped out a window to avoid a vote in the state legislature.

Maguro said...

Scott Walker is betraying the middle class.

Only if you believe the middle class = unionized public employees.

SGT Ted said...

I don't think Lincoln was referring to public employee unions, who live off the labor of actual workers that don't derive their salaries and goodies from taxes.

Jay said...

hmm, How many children die from malnutrition daily in America?

Um, zero.

SGT Ted said...

I think one of the most disturbing aspects of government workers protesting against pay cuts and pension reform is to portray those opposed to paying more money from their paychecks to fund unsustainable pensions and nice salaries as being "against workers".

As if those taxes funding their salaries and goodies didn't come from workers to begin with.

What we're against is ungrateful parasites demanding that the rest of us tighten OUR belts to give up more of OUR OWN money so that the gravy train for them keeps on rolling.

Sofa King said...

Mulrain -

Who do you blame for your sons' miseducation? Youself? Or the teachers?

Paco Wové said...

"A. Lincoln once jumped out a window to avoid a vote in the state legislature."

May be, but he apparently never said what you quoted him as saying.

Michael said...

Okay. I don't agree with this kid, but it is a stretch to connect his sign to assassination. It sounds like you're trying too hard, similar to when the MSM does it to the Tea Party. I think he means what he says he means, that he feels Walker has betrayed... someone. We've seen plenty of other signs, slogans and chants in the past week that make your point much more clearly.

jkmack said...

Union's seem quite fond of Lincoln quotes nowadays, having found one containing the words labor and capital, they neglect to quote it in it's context, or include the following sentence which reads, "Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights.

Read more: State of the Union Address: Abraham Lincoln (December 3, 1861) — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/t/hist/state-of-the-union/73.html#ixzz1EWrFNtUv


In regards for your fondness of Lincoln quotes, I leave you with one more to consider,“What kills a skunk is the publicity it gives itself.” Abraham Lincoln

public employee unions would do well to consider how their metaphorical stench hangs in the nostrils of the tax payers.

former law student said...

Your son made an assertion, not an argument. Typical lefty.


Lefty?

Show me the argument in

Taxed
Enough
Already.

Fen said...

Brutus betrayed his king.
Judas betrayed his King.
Brett Farve betrayed his fans.
Scott Walker is betraying the middle class.


Except that the middle class elected Scott Walker to do exactly what he is now. Your son doesn't speak for them.

Thats why the sign is so stupid. He might as well complain that Troy Aikman betrayed the Packers by knocking them out of the playoffs.

former law student said...

"What's your sign?

The professor's sign -- neatly lettered on white posterboard, mounted to a sustainably harvested stick from Whole Foods -- would be "I for one welcome our new Republican Overlords."

former law student said...

Except that the middle class elected Scott Walker to do exactly what he is now.

Strip teachers of their collective bargaining rights? Is that the platform Walker ran on, or is that what you gleaned from your exit polling?

Fen said...

FLS: Is that the platform Walker ran on, or is that what you gleaned from your exit polling?

5 seconds of google, Libtard.

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_17437273

the governor's proposal was consistent with his political philosophy and budgets he put forward as Milwaukee County executive that also targeted unions for concessions.

"If people are at all surprised by this then they haven't been paying attention," Grebe said. "He really does believe in skinny budgets and protecting the taxpayers. What he's doing now is completely consistent with that."

As county executive for eight years before elected governor, Walker never proposed a higher property tax levy than what was approved. To pay for that, he repeatedly sought to impose wage and benefit concessions on county workers, but was blocked by the unions and Democratic-controlled county board.

As proof that unions knew they would be targeted, Walker points to a flier circulated during last fall's campaign by union AFT-Wisconsin that warned that Walker wanted to curb the unions' power to negotiate.

"Anyone who didn't see it coming must have been in a coma", Walker said.

Union leaders insist they were blindsided

former law student said...

What kind of job could Fen have that doesn't require him to construct a logical argument?

I asked if those who voted for Walker did so because they knew he was going to strip collective bargaining rights from unions, and he gives me some completely off-point stuff.

jkmack said...

If its off point, why did it skewer your assertion?

Fen said...

Kinda obvious why FormerLawStudent failed out of law school, eh?

danmulrain said...

Can I just say as the person who wrote the sign and answered the questions that all I meant by it was that these are people who betrayed people nothing more than that...I understand that naturally a Republican governor will be against unions...The point, as stated in the interview, was that Scott Walker is betraying the middle/working class. Also can I just say that I was at no time informed or aware that this woman was taking a video of me...

jkmack said...

How Is Gov. Walker Betraying the middle/working class? What in your mind constitutes the middle/working class?

former law student said...

If its off point, why did it skewer your assertion?


Oh jeez.

"Skinny budgets" is NOT THE SAME as eliminating collective bargaining rights.

And the American Federation of Teachers is NOT THE SAME as the middle class voters who chose Walker. The fact I even have to explain this astonishes me.

Fen said...

The point, as stated in the interview, was that Scott Walker is betraying the middle/working class

No he's not betryaing. He's championing the middle class. He's standing up for them. He's protecting them from massive layoffs and debt from entitlement spending that will bankrupt local counties and school districts if the unions are allowed to continue as they have.

Do you understand that unions FORCE workers to join them? Do you get that unions FORCE workers to donate to Democrat campaigns or be fired? How can you be cool with that?

Pogo said...

"at no time informed or aware that this woman was taking a video of me"

That's the problem with showing up at a massive rally with hundreds of journalists present.

Don't be surprised you end up in the news.

I am pleased to see you represent yourself here, however.

My main complaint about your discussion is that the syllogism is false in that all your examples have one person betray one other person who had trusted them.

Your example has one class 'betrayed' by a person who they knew was out to get them. Fail.

And class betrayal is a stupid marxist theory anyway. Was Walker 'of the class'? No. Fail.

former law student said...

What strikes me is the right wingers' inability to distinguish ends from means, hence "skinny budgets" is indistinguishable from "end collective bargaining".

This explains their opposition to high-speed rail, by the way. If the right winger wants to go somewhere, he CARS to that place. The idea you could reach destinations through any other means is literally unthinkable.

former law student said...

The problem is that the middle class is an elastic term that everyone understands differently.

Here, the Walkers of the world who send their children to be taught by the people whose rights he's trying to suppress, WILL NOT LIKE the teaching provided by the meek and submissive types who let the Walkers of the world push them around.

Fen said...

FLS: What strikes me is the right wingers' inability to distinguish ends from means, hence "skinny budgets" is indistinguishable from "end collective bargaining

Wow. FLS boldly knocks down another Strawman.

Hint: go back and read it slower. Hell, I even bolded if for you, Libtard.

Fen said...

I am pleased to see you represent yourself here, however.

Echo. At least you had the balls to show up and defend yourself here. We can be a tough crowd.

Hat-tip to ya.

former law student said...

bolded if for you, Libtard

Union leaders insist they were blindsided.

"There wasn't any belief he was going to go for the nuclear option," said Gary Steffen, president of the Wisconsin Science Professionals, the union that represents state scientists, including crime lab analysts, biologists, chemists and foresters. "We expected concessions, but we just didn't think there was a mandate for this. We didn't see him getting rid of collective bargaining."

Hey, when CSI's against you, you lose.

former law student said...

What Walker is thinking: I want teachers who literally have no other choice, college grads without the spunk to carve any better deal for their future -- teachers who will just sit and take whatever I decide to give to them.

purpleslog said...

That is a fake Lincoln quote.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195055411/lewrockwell/

Maguro said...

I want teachers who literally have no other choice, college grads without the spunk to carve any better deal for their future -- teachers who will just sit and take whatever I decide to give to them.

Oh, so you're saying that teachers should be allowed to choose whether they join the union or not?

Glad to see that you and Gov Walker are on the same page.

George said...

This explains their opposition to high-speed rail, by the way. If the right winger wants to go somewhere, he CARS to that place. The idea you could reach destinations through any other means is literally unthinkable.


Law school dropout uses CARS as a verb trying to demonstrate "right winger's" ignorance. Guess what flaming liberal stooge, your sentence thus sounds ignorant. Conservatives "drive" because it allows them to choose the route and the time of their transportation. BTW, I tried to take a TEA party bus to the protest in Madison yesterday, but there were too many of us TEA partiers and I had to DRIVE.

George said...

Full of Latent Sludge says:::
I want teachers who literally have no other choice, college grads without the spunk to carve any better deal for their future -- teachers who will just sit and take whatever I decide to give to them.;;;

Sure. These teachers are the most high minded and ambitious among us. What an imagination!

There are Education graduates by the thousands looking for jobs because everyone knows what a sweet deal it is. Teachers know that they have already carved the best deal ever - month off per year, pensions like everybody used to have in the 60's. And lets be honest, unlike in the 60's and earlier, these people really aren't that bright and university Education schools are no intellectual challenge at all. I frequently wish I had gone for the easy street of education.

At yesterday's protest my TEA party group was joined by a teacher who's on our side. What a lovely and bright woman, plenty of spunk in that one to go against the oppressive union intimidators.

dick said...

R-V,

\Funny but the only people of color I have seen in the videos so far were from the Tea Party group. Not a single person of color with the union group. Some Asians but the Dems don't consider them worth counting.

danmulrain said...

"...these people really aren't that bright and university Education schools are no intellectual challenge at all. I frequently wish I had gone for the easy street of education."

The only teachers with no intellectual abilities are the ones in support of this bill like your fellow teapartyer.

Unions are willing to make concessions. They have agreed to pay more for their pensions and healthcare. The issue is collective bargaining and if you believe that collective bargaining is solely about money you are again, misstaken. Collective bargaining is also what the teachers use to negotiate class size and the number of classes each teacher can teach...and if you are trying to get rid of these abilities how do you expect jobs not to be lost? or at least not created in the first place?

Also, why should anyone believe that pension and healthcare percentages need be increased at all if Wisconsin can afford to give tax breaks to the Koch brothers.

And to further explain my interview "Middle Class" in my opinion is the working class. This includes the factory workers who were represented by the teamsters at the rally as well as the firefighters, the police officers, the boilermakers, and the ironworkers all of whom were represented by their unions in opposition to this bill.

Finally if Ms. Althouse is going to go around chastising people for the poor taste of their signs I really don't think that you should be using terms like "libtard."

danmulrain said...

Also Thanks to those of you who I know don't agree with my sign but still respected my right to protest. I was happy to see the tea party supporters in Madison exercising thier rights to free speech and protest just as I was but on the other side. It is a powerful thing to be a part of and a very important right we have as Americans

Nate Whilk said...

There's no record of the Lincoln quote given on the placard. That means the first thing you should say to people who use it is to ask for the source first. If they give one (such as supposedly from an 1854 speech), THEN tell them there's no documentation of that.

From "They Never Said It" (Google Books):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/4z6pmcd

danmulrain said...

I think its about time the republicans move on from Lincoln...Abraham Lincoln the man many republicans refer to as the founder of their party, but if you want to talk about how bad big government is you really should not associate yourselves with the man who trampled over states rights. Interesting how the political parties change their stances but not their names.

GMay said...

R-V said: "The provisions would allow the administration to revamp and even gut the programs without following state laws or the normal legislative processes."

Would this be the normal legislative process the Democrats are fleeing from and therefore hindering?

Need a little clarity here.

GMay said...

dan,

Are you going to keep misattributing quotes to Lincoln? I think the only one stuck on Lincoln here is, well...you.

And you got it wrong to boot.

former law student said...

I frequently wish I had gone for the easy street of education.

It's not too late. Several of my older friends got teaching certificates and are teaching math and science. Let me know how that career change works out for you.

teachers should be allowed to choose whether they join the union or not?

When I go salmon fishing, you look for the "bait ball," a teeming mass of small fish. Salmon probe the bait ball, looking for outliers and stragglers. It's far easier for them to pick off such onesie twosie fish, -- and devour them -- than for them to tussle with and penetrate the bait ball.

Union busting breaksup the bait ball, and allows the giant Chinook to eat his fill. And that's what Walker wants: to fill his maw.

Meade said...

@danmulrain,

Dan, I want to commend you for coming into the comments and introducing yourself here at the Althouse blog. I hope you'll become a frequent reader here and feel free to comment and join any discussion.

danmulrain said...

Haha thanks meade, however, I realize that I will be unable to change anyone's minds and most likely they will not change mine. Also I will not be a member of a blog that continues to call me an idiot for believing and interpreting politics differently than you. Also, when sofa king is going to suggest that my father has not eudcated me well I think I can recognize that you people really have no politics to discuss you really just enjoy disrespecting others and trying to make yourselves look like the smart ones, however, you sound like idiots...an assasination sign? give me a break, The Lincoln sign has absolutely nothing to do with assasination except that he was assasinated and neither does my sign the only person to even be linked with assasination was Marcus Brutus. Judas did not assasinate anyone, neither did brett favre, and Scott Walker is betraying the working class for big business.
My Father is a good man and he has educated me enough, sofa king, to know to behave better than you, and to respect the opinions of others rather than just calling them miseducated which for your personal education is not even a word! I believe you were looking for the word Uneducated perhaps?
For all of the Unchristian things I have seen on this blog I am surprised any of you even know who Judas Iscariot is
This is my last post, enjoy tearing it to pieces since you obviously have nothing better to do than criticize a protest sign, absolutely pathetic.
Thanks to those who at least respected me though.

Meade said...

Well the door is always open, Dan.

You seem like an earnest young man who wants to make the world a better place so I'll offer you some advice I wish I had fully taken to heart when I was your age:

Develop a thick skin and a strong sense of humor. Suppression works to a degree but humor is the ultimate defense mechanism. (Did Freud say that?) Life is beautiful but the world can be a harsh place. You can't win 'em all but don't let anyone keep you down. When someone insults you, stand up, take it like a man, and dish some back. Question everything, think for yourself, and challenge any fad, ideology, doctrine, or program before you get with it. Maintain your freedom to change your own mind for yourself while holding to your deepest commitments to family, friends, country, and God. Stick to your guns, keep your cool, awake, awake, awake. Try always to follow the Golden Rule and ask that others do the same.

You have my sincere best wishes for a long future of wonderful creativity and freedom.

Ann Althouse said...

"I realize that I will be unable to change anyone's minds and most likely they will not change mine."

Why would you even want to believe something like that?

"Also I will not be a member of a blog that continues to call me an idiot for believing and interpreting politics differently than you."

If you go through and coolly count how many people called you an idiot and how many actually tried to talk to you in a respectful way, I'll bet you'll be surprised at the ratio of nice to nasty.

I'm more than 3 times your age and I wish I'd learned when I was young how liberating it is to have a thick skin. If you let yourself get pushed back by a few people calling you an idiot, you limit your own freedom.

Conscience Whig said...

For those who would like more context for the Lincoln labor quote:

This is a sham quote that as been printed and reprinted in union publications since the 1930s. Lincoln was not partial to hyperbolic, demagogic statements. The best expression of his views of labor and capital that I know of comes from his speech at Cincinnati on September 17, 1859:

"Labor is the great source from which nearly all, if not all, human comforts and necessities are drawn. There is a difference in opinion about the elements of labor in society. Some men assume that there is a necessary connection between capital and labor, and that connection draws within it the whole of the labor of the community. They assume that nobody works unless capital excites them to work. They begin next to consider what is the best way. They say that there are but two ways; one is to hire men and to allure them to labor by their consent; the other is to buy the men and drive them to it, and that is slavery. Having assumed that, they proceed to discuss the question of whether the laborers themselves are better off in the condition of slaves or of hired laborers, and they usually decide that they are better off in the condition of slaves.

"In the first place, I say, that the whole thing is a mistake. That there is a certain relation between capital and labor, I admit. That it does exist, and rightfully exists, I think is true. That men who are industrious, and sober, and honest in the pursuit of their own interests should after a while accumulate capital, and after that should be allowed to enjoy it in peace, and also if they should choose when they have accumulated it to use it to save themselves from actual labor and hire other people to labor for them is right. In doing so they do not wrong the man they employ, for they find men who have not of their own land to work upon, or shops to work in, and who are benefited by working for others, hired laborers, receiving their capital for it. Thus a few men that own capital, hire a few others, and these establish the relation of capital and labor rightfully. A relation of which I make no complaint. But I insist that that relation after all does not embrace more than one-eighth of the labor of the country."

Daniel said...

The Truth:
Walker Liberates the Middle Class
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/115993364.html