February 24, 2011

Professor Donald Downs says Gov. Walker "by being radical... has exposed the contradictions in the political economy."

"It's creedal!"



This is the last 2 1/2 minutes of Downs's talk at last night's teach-in, which is also discussed in the previous post, and which should soon be on-line in its entirety here.

53 comments:

Scott M said...

Doesn't that make the union members and supporters the reactionaries?

madawaskan said...

Wow-that guy is brave.

madAsHell said...

He criticizes the university for lacking "intellectual diversity".

WTF? Intellectual diversity?? They need more stupid people in the university?

Intellectual diversity? Did the football team leave town?

PatCA said...

Yes, Scott M, it does make them reactionaries. You can tell it by their clothes, memes, slogans, and methods--they ape a fabled time of revolution that didn't really exist.

I agree so much with Downs when he says this discussion "exposes the contradictions." Socialism and PC have now been substituted for capitalism and patriotism because the left spent 30 years "teaching in" to expose the contradictions within those systems.

Trouble is, all human systems have contradictions. So do you want individual freedom or domination by experts? Capitalism or socialism? Free speech or speech codes?

These imperfect choices are ours to make, again and again.

Marshal said...

I don't think he says anything meaningful in this clip. It's pablum to free speech and diversity.

madAsHell said...

I'm pretty sure this guy is still pickin' that playground wedgie out of his ass.

The hand motions, the vocabulary, saying nothing substantive, the wink-wink "you all know what I mean"....it all stinks like a beta male.

Coketown said...

They aren't contradictions, they're nuances. Only a total square, someone who's totally non-radical, would confuse the two.

paul a'barge said...

Blowhard.

I had to turn it off.

traditionalguy said...

Humans do use delusions to soften the harshness of reality during their lives. That is why we developed courts and laws with tradition, structure and memory of the rules to be applied when a conflict arises due to selfish demands. Demanding that everyone be taken care of by a Socialist group is the delusion that most runs good people into the ditch.

madawaskan said...

What does he say about his class?

What does he say about his university?

I think it's outstanding given the environment-of mob think-listen to the beat of the drum.

And since I went to Boulder and might have a feel of what Madison is like-

Berkeley on the Tundra.

Imagine a Berkeley prof in the middle of the hurricane of media coverage and 60's style protests saying what he did.

****

J said...

The Demo schoolteachers vs GOP-TP supply siders "battle" in WI does not add up to a real dialectical struggle. It's more like...PC, squishy WASP bureaucrats vs confused frat boy-WASP biz majors, who mistake running the Govt. for managing their small business . Collegetown scandal. Not revolution.

Econophile said...

I'm pretty sure this guy is still pickin' that playground wedgie out of his ass.

This is a really typical attitude for most in the UW community: Don't allow anyone with perspectives different from yours to be heard.

If they do pronounce a view you find threatening, don't address the issue (instead make a claim about their childhood that's in fact much more likely to be true about your own camp!). Whatever you do, don't let yourself really think about anything because vilifying others is much less difficult.

Yes, I know exactly what Downs is talking about. Any honest person would.

Econophile said...

J: You are boring, I'm afraid.

J said...

1: 04-- yr not only boring, you're incapable of reason, Econo-frat boy.

The A-house regs aren't getting Downs anyway. He's not waving the flag for GOP-TP (lets hope not). He's upholding a traditional democratic line, somewhat. Govt bureaucrats are not exactly labor. That doesn't mean ...approve of Palinocracy. It might mean...increase taxes to cover. govt. expenditures for needed services, like education.

Scott M said...

So, J, I'd honestly like to know. WASP = derogatory term with you, correct? That's the way you keep using it. I'm honestly trying to muddle through you're l33t ep33n comments, but I'd like to get that clear before trying again.

Trooper York said...

It takes balls to forcefully voice an unpopular opinion in the face of universal contempt and rigid ideology.

You won't find balls in college professors. They like to terrorize kids.

They are men among boys and boys among men.

Alex said...

100K people to demonstrate in favor of unions this weekend. pathetic 'baggers like Walker to be exposed.

Alex said...

You won't find balls in college professors. They like to terrorize kids.

Downs has big BRASS ones.

J said...

1:12.

That's right, Scottski. Just have to peruse yr posts: WASP-trash all the way--i,e . Boneheaded, calvinist irrationalism. Like yr mama, and most TPsters too. The Romneypalin disease

Henry said...

Creedal Clearwater Revivance -- Yeah, I remember them.

* * *

As for Professor Downs -- seems to me that what he has to say is clear, pointed, and liberal in the classical sense. Thumbs up.

* * *

Someone told me long ago
There's a calm before the storm
I know
It's been coming for some time.

Scott M said...

3 billion people are monotheists and Bill Maher thinks they're idiots. What's your point?

If there is the slightest wisp of impropriety (the phony Koch call doesn't rise to that standard), the GOP in Wisconsin are toast. They know it. On the other hand, they did win the election quite handily and seem to be following the letter of the law. Plus...they won. Deal with it.

Scott M said...

That's right, Scottski. Just have to peruse yr posts: WASP-trash all the way--i,e . Boneheaded, calvinist irrationalism. Like yr mama, and most TPsters too. The Romneypalin disease

So...you admit to being both irrevocably immature and an out and out racist? Not a surprise. I just wanted to make sure before I checkboxed Ignore again.

J said...

Heh heh.

Touched a nerve, eh Tweekbuggers?

Let's not forget most of the GOP-TP faithful don't really argue for their POV.They have no coherent ideology, except "Gubbmint bad". They're following orders from the Foxnews commanders, Breitfart, Ayn Rand newsletter, the lokal baptisst or mormon preachers, etc. Git er done!

Henry said...

@Scott M -- If you skip over Alex and J you can get through these threads a lot faster.

J said...

1: 22. Not exactly Scottski. I admit to not caring for yr cheesy midwestern biz major hype, punk.

Git er done, Squat

Scott M said...

If you skip over Alex

Problematic because the other Alex actually makes cogent points from time to time.

ricpic said...

Standard academic ectomorph. No effort has ever been made to get that tall wavy frame under control. Or to project in a clear and measured way. Or to reign in the loopy hand gestures. It's up to others, lesser beings like students and the awful peasantry, to torture their way to whatever meaning is hidden in the forest of his academic affectations and total twittery. And a very successful life it has been and he'll die with a smile on his face and not a single doubt in his mind that mankind has been blessed to be the recipient of his benevolent condescension.

J said...

That so, Henry tweek boy?

We'll be getting your emails, threats, rumors, and yr fave kiddie shit , when the feds seize your HD , schmutz. Goes for Frau A-House as well. Buh bye, nazi grrl

Lyle said...

Here, here for Professor Downs! And using Marx to undercut the Union side of the issue. Oh. My. God.

edutcher said...

madAsHell said...

He criticizes the university for lacking "intellectual diversity".

WTF? Intellectual diversity?? They need more stupid people in the university?

Intellectual diversity? Did the football team leave town?


He probably meant there's an overabundance.

Like the old wheeze, "We have enough youth. what we need is a Fountain of Smart".

J said...

The Demo schoolteachers vs GOP-TP supply siders "battle" in WI does not add up to a real dialectical struggle.

And we all know nothing does it for J than when somebody goes all dialectical on him.

Kirby Olson said...

There is a difference between Down Syndrome and Downs Syndrome.

I like what Downs said, and think he has a good point.

As the revolutions in Egypt and Libya topple their totalitarians, we may as well topple our own as well.

Walkeer is the beginning of the end of the totalitarian sixties that has gotten enshrined in places like Madison and Berkeley and many thousand other points of darkness across the land.

Now we're getting people inside the power structure beginning to stand up for freedom. It very much recalls what is happening in Egypt and Libya.

madAsHell said...

Yes, I know exactly what Downs is talking about. Any honest person would.

So....ah...what's he talking about?

All I heard were a bunch of lefty bumper sticker slogans strung together! I nearly blacked-out my bingo card.

J said...

1:57.

You don't know f**k about Hegel, Edutcher--anymore than Kirby Klown does.


For one, Hegel's not some simpering evangelical or moralist. He doesn't jump to conclusions, nor defend the wealthy and powerful at any cost.



Stick to the Ayn Rand-lite, pukes


(worried about something Kirby, pal of beatnik NAMBLAites? heh heh)

Jim said...

The Badger Herald is a POS paper, even for something student-produced. The writing and reporting quality of every is, well, horrendous. If I was comparing it to a "conservative" paper that's national, it would be much more Washington Times than WSJ. Most of the time, what they write is unbearable to read--not because of the content, but because of the quality of the writing.

Sofa King said...

Guys, you have to understand the context a little.

Downs is a classical Liberal - closest in modern terms to a libertarian - and that makes him a conservative on campus, at least on economic and individualism issues. On liberty, he is more "liberal" than most actual liberals. He's not dumb - he knows how to talk to the liberals that he's surrounded by - but he's also not afraid. He nearly single-handedly got the campus to voluntarily abandon its speech codes. Since then, his biggest personal cause is *real,* not PC, freedom of expression.

He was my favorite professor and completely rocked my world when I entered his criminal law (undergrad) class as a get-along liberal.

Marshal said...

"He doesn't jump to conclusions, nor defend the wealthy and powerful at any cost."

Is the assertion in the second clause supposed to prove you fail the test in the first? You should work on sentence construction.

bagoh20 said...

I disagree with him about free speech in that there is one thing above dissent and that is truth whether in support or dissent of the government.

I'm not sure if public employee unions protesting qualifies as actual dissent. They are the government. It's more of a union vs management fight. When the citizens protest these government expendatures, that's dissent.

Kirby Olson said...

SOFA KING nailed this.

True classical liberals are the only thing like a conservative that is allowed on most campuses. There are a few of us left, or that got through the door before it was bolted shut by the far left zombies.

Phil 3:14 said...

J;
Up your game. Here's a goal to shoot for.

Triangle Man said...

I'm not sure if public employee unions protesting qualifies as actual dissent. They are the government.

I think this is a misconception. For many, to be employed by the government is not to govern. Althouse is not the government. A pipe fitter at UW's cogen facility is not the government.

Sofa King said...

I wonder if people are actually misunderstanding what Downs is saying here. Maybe the reference to Marx right away throws people off. He is deliberately choosing Marx because (a) they don't expect it of him, and (b) it's a dig at liberals who revere Marx even though he does not.

The point he goes on to make, about dissent and free speech, is directed at the people there on campus, who would rather not listen to the pro-Walker side of the debate. He is especially pushing back against the thought that there is something wrong (i.e., lack of "solidarity" or being offensive) with raising the pro-Walker arguments and taking them seriously, even among people who almost uniformly disagree with them.

shoutingthomas said...

I think this is a misconception. For many, to be employed by the government is not to govern. Althouse is not the government. A pipe fitter at UW's cogen facility is not the government.

Bullshit on a popsicle stick.

Just pay attention to Althouse's authoritarian voice.

Yes, Althouse is part of the government.

Yes a pipe fitter at UW is part of the government.

You are a very pesky bullshit artist.

Revenant said...

nor defend the wealthy and powerful at any cost

Nobody does. Heck, not even the wealthy and powerful do that. :)

vnjagvet said...

This post must have drawn blood. The 'skeeters are out in force. Ad hominem and invective seem to be the extent of their rhetorical skills.

Jay said...

Collegetown scandal. Not revolution.

History isn't written by the losers, clown.

Eric said...

You won't find balls in college professors.

Of course not. The whole tenure system militates against nonconformity. That's why you end up with phony nonconformists like Ward Churchill - real nonconformity will never get tenure.

Revenant said...

Doesn't that make the union members and supporters the reactionaries?

A reactionary is a person who is extremely opposed to change.

So, yes.

This is why I prefer "left-wing" and "right-wing" to "liberal" and "conservative". There are plenty of areas where right-wingers favor liberalization, and plenty of areas where left-wingers are opposed to any change.

Kirby Olson said...

Sofa King, you're coming through loud and clear.

It's just that most people have this crazy notion that there are Marxists and then there are Nazis.

There are classical liberals, too, but not many of them. You can't find many of those among the Democrats any longer. When you find them, they tend to be Republicans.

They do want freedom of speech, and they think it's still a vital thing for citizens to be able to do.

Marxists don't want that, and of course Nazis are a bugaboo invented by Marxists. Nazis don't really exist in America outside of some place in Idaho perhaps.

Thank you for weighing in here, Sofa King.

As for J, notice that he can't argue. He lays down a few screaming curses, says something is some way or another, and never gives REASONS. He's not used to reasoning. He probably can't.

That's the situation that the universities have left most of the younger people in: they don't know what reasons are. They just scream.

It's a symptom.

Thank goodness for Professor Downs.

It's like finding a member of a species that you thought had been eradicated from academia.

I totally got his Marx move.

Peano said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...

Doesn't that make the union members and supporters the reactionaries?

@Scott M, if you're still hanging around, yes it does. In 21st century America it's the alleged "progressives" who are trying to "stand athwart history yelling 'stop'." If there really is an afterlife, then Bill Buckley must be smiling.

Big Mike said...

Related to Scott Walker and the political economy, I read just now that 13 of the 14 "fleebagger" Democrat state senators are subject to recall petitions. Can someone who is familiar with the Wisconsin state constitution tell me whether this changes the number of senators required to make up a quorum? I mean, if two senators are recalled does the magic number become 19, vice 20? (For you math-challenged liberals out there, 19 > 0.6 * 31.)

rcocean said...

I probably agree with what he's saying but he's so Booorrring and long-winded.

Where's the BHTV x1.4 speedup when you need it?

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