February 11, 2011

"President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt turned over all power to the military..."

"... and left the Egyptian capital for his resort home in Sharm el-Sheik, Vice President Omar Suleiman announced on state television on Friday."

The crowd shouts "Egypt is free!" and let's hope that it's so.

100 comments:

Paddy O said...

Let's hope, indeed.

But I have more hope in people than in totalitarian governments. And, it seems to me, the people are not in the mood to replace one authoritarianism with another.

May the people of Egypt truly embrace real freedom for all their people.

Almost Ali said...

Mubarak stepped down a moment ago - now we're waiting for our jive turkey president to assign the greatness, and then take credit.

Which reminds me, this country could use a good revolution.

(cross post)

AllenS said...

Wait a minute. The military takes over and the crowd shouts "Egypt is free!" Well, better this than if the Muslim Brotherhood took over. Nothing says democracy, than a military run government. At least Mubarak is gone. Hillary and obama can now feel like they accomplished a lot.

Freder Frederson said...

Last laugh is on you.

Ha!

And President Obama's transformative moment came less than twenty four hours later than first predicted.

You would have just given up and gone home last night if you were in Egypt--"Hey, we gave it our best shot, I guess he's not quitting"

Scott M said...

Prayers for the people and military of Egypt. Hopefully they will follow a path that sets an example for the rest of the Middle East.

traditionalguy said...

Game, set, match. The 82 year old sick man has arranged an orderly transition of power from one military backed strong man to another. Obama's and the Muslim Brotherhood's exploitable crisis has gone away for now. I wonder how they will try to start it back up?

Treacle said...

tihs is a clear distraction from the attention we should be focusing on christopher lee.

ricpic said...

Hey, it's a transformative moment. Why do you think the Alien In Chief is crapping his pants for joy? Remember? Remember "We are five days from a fundamental transformation of the United States of America?" These are his anti-American anti-Israeli Death to the West buddies who are now within sight of their dreamed of and his dreamed of Caliphate.

Treacle said...

also, to the ovens with the copts!

gloogle said...

"Egypt is free" - of Mubarak, apparently. Let's wait and see just how "free" they really turn out to be before we go dropping tickertape from the Sphinx.

wv: cress - what Caesar did at the Rubicon...

Scott M said...

Obama's and the Muslim Brotherhood's exploitable crisis has gone away for now.

How so? I'd say it just started. If radicals are intent on seizing power, they will start their destabilization efforts in short order.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

I hope that the "crowd" has thought things out further than one move at a time.

MadisonMan said...

Sometimes, better the Devil you know. I don't know if this is one of those times. Probably not, but as AllenS says, freedom under military rule?

gloogle said...

NYTNY: It's difficult for a crowd to play chess...

Scott M said...

Probably not, but as AllenS says, freedom under military rule?

Best case, it will amount to stewardship as they get elections fired up and accomplished.

AllenS said...

What if they have elections, and the Muslim Brotherhood wins?

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

True that, but in all of the "people" interviews that I've seen, all wanted Mubarak gone but I haven't heard what they want in his stead.

Scott M said...

True that, but in all of the "people" interviews that I've seen, all wanted Mubarak gone but I haven't heard what they want in his stead.

Imhotep...Imhotep...

I noticed that the crowds looked fairly boilish these past couple days.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

What if they have elections, and the Muslim Brotherhood wins?


“Democracy is NOT, “One man, one vote, ONE time” and should it appear that the Ikhwan Muslimeen is going to win, I believe the US would be well advised to support a SECULAR Military Rule, instead.

Almost Ali said...

but I haven't heard what they want in his stead.

The dismantling of Mubarak's police state.

traditionalguy said...

Scot M...If the need to go back to work and feed your family becomes the crisis, then the revolution loses steam. Only a plundering of wealth from a class of people or of a foreign state can sustain the revolution. So if the Army permits no plundering of Mubarak's oligarchy or of the Copts, and there no enemy state such as Israel that is conquerable for plundering, then only money sent in from Iran will be available to sustain this revolution.

prairie wind said...

I'm with Allen and Scott...now is when we should be worried.

Paul said...

Unless the Egyptian people GET A BILL OF RIGHTS, just like we have, expect any vote, even if everyone has a vote, to end up with another dictatorship.

Maybe Muslim, maybe strongman, maybe Chavez... but that is what will happen.

Our founding fathers INSISTED on a BILL of RIGHTS for each individual. There were good reasons for this!

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

The Mubarak family worth on Google ranges from $5-70B...Yes B!

1jpb said...

"let's hope that it's so."

But, lets also hope that we can suss out an endless stream of fleeting--and, relative to big picture, completely meaningless, if not counterproductive--opportunities to make partisan attacks on BHO.

Everybody wins!

P.S.
What color hair does BHO have today. Is the messaging focused on camaraderie w/ a youthful revolution and a fresh start? Or is the POTUS signaling near-geriatric stability and wisdom? Only the keen professor can tell.

Joaquin said...

If 32 years ago someone had told you that for the next 32 years Egypt and Israel would be at peace, you would have broken 3 ribs from hysterical laughter.

Anyone want to guess what the next (forget 32!) 10 years will hold?

D. B. Light said...

Suleiman wins. He had been number two in the line of succession, then Mubarak tried to insert his son as his successor, thus pissing off a major portion of his support in the military. This caused a crisis of the regime that outside [non-military] groups tried, but failed, to exploit. I don't expect much substantive change in the Egyptian power structure -- although there will be some cosmetic reforms. And so it goes..., and so it goes....

Scott M said...

Is the messaging focused on camaraderie w/ a youthful revolution and a fresh start? Or is the POTUS signaling near-geriatric stability and wisdom?

What the messaging will miss completely, if my working with Egyptian officers over the years has any bearing, will be the actual feelings of the general staff that have inherited this situation. The shouldering of a burden they would rather not have, but realize is absolutely necessary for the safety of their fellow Egyptians, and the desire to not...fuck...it...up.

Even more so than the Kuwatis, Egyptians are some of the most common-sense people I served with in that part of the world.

William said...

Egypt is the oldest society on earth. They have not during the last four thousand years succeeded in lifting the general population more than one or two notches above the subsistence level. They have had a flair for building monuments, but even here they peaked early. Some Egyptian dynasties lasted a thousand years, and the only change was that they wore their amulets slightly higher above the elbow in Ramses than in later dynasties. This is a society that puts a premium on stability....I have less understanding of Egyptian society than I do of rap music or Chris Matthews has of the tea party. But if the past is prologue, they will again choose a strongman who offers a stable--perhaps stagnant is the better word--society. But who really knows? Most women in Egypt have mutilated genitals. A society that does not believe in the clitoris is not a likely candidate for democrarcy and freedom, but, again, who really knows.

1jpb said...

Scott,

It sounds like the military is already running things.

Somewhere I read that they control all sorts of industries, not just the military. [makes me think of Iran]

I'd think that the bigger problem would be having the military un-run things in a more free market. I'd guess that giving up power is hard than hoarding (or expanding) it.

virgil xenophon said...

How does that old saying go?: "Any Jackass can tear down a barn, but it takes a skilled carpenter to rebuild it." Lets see how democracy" works on the fly.. And good luck with that...lets see...latest polls show HUGE majorities (80-95%) want a) Sharia law b) stoning for adultery c) war w. Israel d) hate the US e) An Islamic Republic and d) 90% of women have clitorectomies --all of their own volition, of course.

Oh yeah, the foundational cultural pre-requisites for free, open, democratic self-governance are all there all right...

David said...

From a AP article:

"In these grave circumstances that the country is passing through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to leave his position as president of the republic," a grim-looking Suleiman said. "He has mandated the Armed Forces Supreme Council to run the state. God is our protector and succor."
Nobel Peace laureate Mohammed ElBaradei, whose young suporters were among the organizers of the protest movement, told The Associated Press, "This is the greatest day of my life."


Yeah, Praise Allah, a military coup. Just what Obama wanted.

What's wrong with this picture?

edutcher said...

Nobody wants Suleiman - including Suleiman - so we'll see who gets in. The real trick is going to be for the Army to make food affordable and available, that's the issue that really started this.

I wonder if The Zero has been told that the ethanol scam may have to take a hit. His placeholders at Intel had a very bad day; I just wonder if the Company really is that incompetent or they're trying to get rid of some of these slugs.

Freder Frederson said...

Last laugh is on you.

Ha!

And President Obama's transformative moment came less than twenty four hours later than first predicted.

You would have just given up and gone home last night if you were in Egypt--"Hey, we gave it our best shot, I guess he's not quitting"


I guess the only one beside The Zero who thinks he's influencing events is Freder/Montagne/Alpha.

PS Turning over power to the military probably doesn't constitute the kind of transformation he thinks he meant.

1jpb said...

"...80-95%) want a..."

Aren't ten percent Christian? It seems odd that you could get half of them in favor of that stuff.

Sticking w/ 80-90% would be a less self-defeating statistic.

Ut said...

Now the Muslim Brotherhood is free to institute Sharia.

Maguro said...

Now the Muslim Brotherhood is free to institute Sharia.

Haven't you heard? The Muslim Brotherhood is secular outfit according to our genius Director of National Intelligence.

We're in the best of hands.

jr565 said...

Of course Mubarek cannot, under the constitution, turn the govt over to anyone but the vice president or the secretary of state. Instead the govt is being turned over to THE MILITARY. That has all kinds of wrong written all over it, and it sounds almost like a coup with the military seizing power without having to go through the motions of overthrowing the govt.
And transitioning from one point to another will take a long time. What will happen for the econonmy of Egypt while noone is in charge, how long will it take to write the consitution develop political parties (and how willing are we to be that Christians will get the short end of the stick)etc.
This has the potential to get really bad.

1jpb said...

"our genius Director of National Intelligence"

Yesterday, Newt (on Hannity) said that Clapper is really a competant, smart guy.

But, don't worry cons, Newt went on to trash BHO and the administration.

Strangely, Negroponte and Wolfowitz were quite supportive of BHO (on CNN). Although, I only caught a bit of that, maybe they went on to trash the administration later on.

edutcher said...

PB&J is more interested in playing gadfly than actually being concerned about the performance of The Zero's political drones in accurately assessing the situation.

They must be getting worried over at Kos.

virgil xenophon said...

You're right jpb. "ONLY" 54% believe suicide bombings of civilians are justified; same for separating women & men in the workplace.
However, NINETY-FIVE (95) per-cent DO believe that religion should play "a large role in politics." My bad...

Paddy O said...

"Only a plundering of wealth from a class of people or of a foreign state can sustain the revolution."

Tradguy, is this always the case? Sure, revolution in an early to mid 20th century context meant Marxism with its inherent class plundering. But surely the American revolution didn't involve plundering, indeed it brought deep debt that had to be managed.

More recently, there is the revolutions in eastern Europe, some of which were violent and some of which were not. I don't recall plundering being essential to their sustaining a democracy forming revolution.

Sure, there's also the example of Iran to counter, but I suspect that authoritarianism is a lot less of an option in our era of mass communication. One key reason for highly central government is the dissemination of information. But, when communication is just out there, it's hard for a central power to solidify control.

virgil xenophon said...

Oh, I'm very sorry 1jpb, I left out the 77% who believe thieves should have their hands cut off. Real 21st Century democratic clay we got there in them thar Egyptian A-rabs...

virgil xenophon said...

But not to worry 1jpb, the prospects for democratic government in Egypt are SO MUCH BRIGHTER because "ONLY" 30% of the Egyptian public has a favorable impression of Hezbollah and FAR FEWER, "ONLY" 20% have a favorable impression of al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden.

I'm SO relieved..

OneLifeLiveIt said...

Waiting for the twist in the tail!

PaulV said...

For almost 60 years Army has been in control. Same old, same old.

PaulV said...

Whoever counts the votes wins

Mary said...

Per Drudge, our fearless leader learned of the Mubarak departure while watching TV! Talk about being clueless and out of the loop.

1jpb said...

virgil,

While it's still a terrible statistic, there is a little bit (a very small bit) of a 'glass half full' flavor to that 20% number, especially considering the other results, e.g. 54% are in favor of homicide bombers.

BTW, have you considered providing a link to these statistics? At this point I'm guessing that you've already paraphrased everything, but still, it's nice to have the original source, in the interest of full disclosure.

traditionalguy said...

Paddy O ...The American Revolution was declaration of independence by a productive and food wise self sufficient 13 colonies. The colonies had done it alone for 150 years of self governing assemblies when a new Germanic King in England decided he should farm them for wealth and invade them with his Army to control this continent. In the end the only class exploited were the defeated Kings Tory allies who ran away to Ontario. Needless to say the victorious colonies credited Providence with their miraculous victory after an 8 year struggle.

sunsong said...

What a joyous moment for the people of Egypt! This success cannot be taken from them no matter where the future leads.

I prefer optimisim to pessimism. Too many dour and self-righteous people convince themselves that being pessimistic and miserable equates to being realistic. How sad for them.

May this lead to greater freedom, self-determination and success for the Egyptian people!

1jpb said...

virgil,

It is noteworthy that our nuts aren't trying to kill innocent people.

AllenS said...

Long live the revolution!

WV: spermou

I don't even need to explain, do I?

Chris said...

Where does the Obama admin stand on this? Do we know yet? Do they?

18ef1562-3609-11e0-b82c-000bcdcb5194 said...

Now's a good chance for the Obama Administration to pivot off this and use the issues of self-determination and self-government agasint the Mullahs in Iran.

This realpolitik and reactionary approach to the world simply won't work in the current Middle East.

There's a massive change taking place over there and we need to get ahead of the demonstrations and not be so reactive.

dont tread 2012 said...

Obama: 'No longer will we dictate to the rest of the world. We apologize'.

Obama: 'Mubarak must step down'.

Ut said...

"What a joyous moment for the people of Egypt! This success cannot be taken from them no matter where the future leads."

I disagree with this sentiment.

This will in fact be a fleeting moment of joy if the future leads to the implementaiton of Saudi Arabian style Wahabbistic Islam. And this unfortunately is a distinct possibility.

That's the thing about freedom: Egyptians are now free to fail just as they have the ability now to succeed.

It is time for Egypt to grow up.

If the Muslim Brotherhood is allowed to dominate political life in Egypt, then all of Egypt will soon be put asunder as the lifeline of the economy - tourism -is destroyed in the name of Mohammad.

I ... just like many millions of of Americans ... have visited Egypt but only because it was free and friendly to American tourists.

The Muslim Brotherhood will have none of that. No, they won't be inviting infidels onto their lands.

Egypt is at a crossroads. Egyptians must decide whether their radical Islamic brothers lead them into freedom ... or the pits of hell.

dont tread 2012 said...

@pb & j

Just show us the birth certificate so we can close that out. Just sayin'.

Chef Mojo said...

You want "worry?" I got your "worry" right here:

U.N. Food Agency Issues Warning on China Drought

Revolutions do not feed hungry stomachs.

Ut said...

"Obama: 'No longer will we dictate to the rest of the world. We apologize'. Obama: 'Mubarak must step down'."

Long live Barack W. Bush!

Ut said...

"Where does the Obama admin stand on this?"

* If anything good happens, they caused it.

* If anything bad happens, they tried to prevent it but the teabaggers stood in the way and called people the N-word and spat on them.

Chef Mojo said...

@sunsong:

So, basically, what you're saying is fuck the Egyptian people if this goes south (and it will, with China cornering the grain market.), because it just makes you feel so wonderful and tingly that People Power has worked! How typically Western of you! Now that the emergence of a military or Islamic dictatorship has validated your belief system, it's time to do the happy dance!

How's that unicorn fart grande latte tasting?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Chef Mojo said...

Revolutions do not feed hungry stomachs.

No, but hungry stomachs feed revolutions

k*thy said...

I'm with you on that, sunsong.

sunsong said...

I disagree with this sentiment.

LOL -- of course you do! How can you open to positive possibilities as well as negative ones :-)

It is a lack of imagination - a lack of vision, imo - to be blind to the range of possibility. It's like a knee-jerk reaction for the doom and gloom crowd - to look for what might go wrong and to not even consider what might go right. How sad.

Fred4Pres said...

Live Streaming the Revolution: Sandworms sighted on the outskirts of the Giza Plateau...

The problem with all of this is "the fremen" are really the Muslim Brotherhood and vice versa.

sunsong said...

Chef Mojo,

Are you grieving the lack of widespread violence and bloodshed? :-)

Stay tuned little child - let's see where this goes and, for now, celebrate with joy and gratitude the success of the Egyptian people. It's ok to desire good things for others. In fact, it feels wonderful :-)

Scott M said...

The problem with all of this is "the fremen" are really the Muslim Brotherhood and vice versa.

Maud'dib wouldn't be caught dead in Egypt. It's wannabe deep desert country with it's water in the cups of foreigners.

sunsong said...

k*thy,

Isn't this thrilling! What amazing times we live in. Watching the world change - and having the capacity and ability to change ourselves.

I hope this leads to greater freedom, self-determination and success for the Egyptian people. They truly deserve it.

k*thy said...

Sunsong, I couldn't agree more.

Shanna said...

Sometimes, better the Devil you know. I don't know if this is one of those times. Probably not, but as AllenS says, freedom under military rule?

I know, it is hard to know whether this is a celebratory moment or not. We’ll see what happens, I guess. Good luck to Egypt.

AllenS said...

Just for the sake of argument, let's say that Obama is removed from office, for whatever reason. Who would be in favor of the military taking over until we could have elections?

Joe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Roger J. said...

OK--thought question: what was more influential in the Egyptian "revolt"--Bush's call for democracy backed up by Iraq or Obama's Cairo speech?

I have my opinion--but I am sure others have theirs as well

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

Watching the world change - and having the capacity and ability to change ourselves.

I hope this leads to greater freedom, self-determination and success for the Egyptian people. They truly deserve it.


“The meek shall inherit….NOTHING.”-F. Zappa…The Egyptian people “deserve” nothing…The American People didn’t “deserve” America and its Constitution, they CREATED it…what the People DESERVE and what the People GET are two different things…and unless the people of Egypt are careful what they’re going to GET is the Muslim Brotherhood, imposing a corrupt authoritarian state upon them, without the benefit of Saudi or Iranian oil wealth…in short, pretty much what they have, economically, but much worse in other ways. So can this “deserve” and “hope” and “change” STUFF…Hope in one hand, Sh!te in the other see which fills up first….

I worry and wonder what will step into Mubarak’s vacuum, Suleiman, as Mubarak Lite, ElBaradei as Kerenski’I, the Ikhwan Muslimeen as the Sunni Mullahs, with the head of the Brotherhood as a Sunni Ayatollah Khomeini? ElBaradei as Jefferson and Suleiman as Washington and a Conservative, Islamic Republic? There is much to fear as there is to hope for…and what the people Deserve has little or nothing to do with it…what the People demand and strive for is what’s important, not what they “Deserve.”

Roger J. said...

once again I refer to my favorite commenter Allen S--this isnt going to end well--I hope allen is wrong, but we shall see

AllenS said...

Thank you, Roger. Hopefully, Egypt will get someone just like Mubarak to run the country.

Fred4Pres said...

The Muslim Brotherhood to Egypt's protestors: Only an inch, I promise...

Fred4Pres said...

The Muslim Brotherhood to Egypt's protestors: Only an inch, I promise...

bgates said...

our fearless leader learned of the Mubarak departure while watching TV!

Why would Mubarak's departure be broadcast on SportsCenter?

Who would be in favor of the military taking over until we could have elections?

That's different, because we have an established protocol: if the President steps down, the new President would be....
Oh.

Scott M said...

Who would be in favor of the military taking over until we could have elections?

Me. I have nothing but the utmost respect for both the rank and file and the Joint Chiefs.

virgil xenophon said...

ijpb/

It's a 2010 Pew Research Poll cited in a 2-10-2011 IBD online (Investors Business Daily) editorial entitled; "What Egyptians really want."

BJM said...

WFT is wrong with this WH? Could they look any less serious? They combine Gibbs' send off with the Egypt presser?

The Mideast is in turmoil and Obama is blathering about ties?

We're watching Carter Part II with our oil supply as hostage.

Ut said...

"Just for the sake of argument, let's say that Obama is removed from office, for whatever reason. Who would be in favor of the military taking over until we could have elections?"

This can't happen thanks to our Constitution (hey, wouldn't it be a good model for the Egyptian Constitution!) ... since the Vice President would immediately be sworn in should anything happen to Obama, including his removal from office for the felony crimes he committed in the passing ObamaCare.

A better quesiton would be: Who wouldn't mind any random sargeant being in charge as long as it prevents Joe Biden from getting anywhere near levers of responsibility?

(Raises hand).

Ut said...

"The Mideast is in turmoil and Obama is blathering about ties?"

They're completely tone deaf and cannot fathom how stupid they look from the outside.

Too many cockpolishers telling them how wonderful they all are.

1jpb said...

virgil,

I'm guessing that this is the data you've been quoting.

In some ways it makes Egypt seem relatively (considering the alternatives) moderate.

For example, 70% are at least somewhat concerned about Muslim extremism in the rest of the world. While 61% had this concern for Egypt itself.

Anyway, I'm sure that picking out a (possibly) positive needle out of the proverbial haystack of Muslim nuttiness, isn't really meaningful. But, hope springs eternal*.


*Speaking of Alexander Pope:

Go, teach Eternal Wisdom how to rule—
Then drop into thyself, and be a fool!


It is not absurd to suggest that radical (and non-radical) Muslim's follow An Essay on Man's guidance more carefully than many in the West.

Of course, their devotion is based on a different belief, w/ different implications. That is, a significant subset of Islam seems to be compatible with (if not very supportive of) homicidal behavior.

virgil xenophon said...

Well yes, 1jpb. It's ALWAYS the determined sub-sets that drive the less intense "indifferent" masses. Same way in nature. Do the many fresh eggs/apples/fish--whatever--make the few rotten ones smell fresh--or the reverse? It's been said that the American Revolution would have never reached critical mass but for the energy of a single man--old Sam Adams--as he traveled indefatigably from State Legislature to State legislature up & down the coast bearing the famed "Letters of Correspondence" by which the embers/flames of the Revolution were fanned.

Bob From Ohio said...

I think Sunsong is still using LSD. His/her avatar is very appropriate, nothing but childish thinking being expressed.

"May this lead to greater freedom, self-determination and success for the Egyptian people!"

No chance.

20 to 30 percent of Egyptians cannot read.

Over 50% are in poverty. Not US or European style poverty, real grinding, no hope poverty.

The mass of Egyptians are not going to vote for the small Westernized middle class, they are going to vote for the people the local half educated iman tells them to, the Muslim Brotherhood or something similar.

The Egyptian public was already Jew hating and anti-American under our "ally" Mubarak. Its not going to get better.

This will end in fire (Israel's or ours) and blood (mainly theirs).

"They truly deserve it."

Why? They hate Jews. They hate the US. They treat the Copts as second class citizens, when they are not burning their churches are killing them.

The evil Mubarak outlawed framle genital mutation. [I wonder ho long that will last now?]

The mass of Egyptians are brutal, unpleasant people. 1% of the population in a square does not change that fact.

BTW, I'm not dour nor self-righteous nor pessimistic nor miserable. I'm not a child though so don't see "joy" in trading a dictator for a military dictatorship leading to Iran.

HT said...

Ut said...


This will in fact be a fleeting moment of joy if the future leads to the implementaiton of Saudi Arabian style Wahabbistic Islam. And this unfortunately is a distinct possibility.

___

Isn't SA vastly different than Egypt? Isn't SA the birthplace of Islam, and the desert the reason all those to us bizarre idiosyncrasies of Islam exist? It's a desert religion, and yeah, Egypt's dry too, but not as dry, and not as harsh. Isn't the cultural difference worth considering a little bit?

Nora said...

I'm not optimistic about revolutions in the third world countries. IIRC, none ended well for the general population: Iran, Russia, Palestinian Authority territories, most of South America comes to mind as well.

Fen said...

But, lets also hope that we can suss out an endless stream of fleeting--and, relative to big picture, completely meaningless, if not counterproductive--opportunities to make partisan attacks on BHO.

Oh look, the "Bush LIHOP and Bush MIHOP" crowd is whining that we're holding the Diversity Hire to a standard.

Quaestor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quaestor said...

Isn't SA vastly different than Egypt? Isn't SA the birthplace of Islam, and the desert the reason all those to us bizarre idiosyncrasies of Islam exist? It's a desert religion, and yeah, Egypt's dry too, but not as dry, and not as harsh. Isn't the cultural difference worth considering a little bit?

It may be unwise to push the environmental analysis too far. Remember that Islam in lush, humid surroundings (Indonesia, Mindanao, etc.) can be just has harsh and medieval as Wahabbi practice in Yemen and Saudi.

Now, let us consider where Hosni M. should send his retirement. Not here, certainly. There's no need to aggravate the jahadist elements by giving Mubarak sanctuary in the US. I vote for a quiet life in Kuwait. After all, the Kuwaitis owe him for helping to oust Saddam (I know, I know... the Kuwaitis are sooo notable for the depth of their gratitude) and they're Arab Sunnis, so old Hosni should feel at ease there. Also being authoritarian they can do something we can't here in America -- they can keep him quiet.

Quaestor said...

Not send - SPEND his retirement. Damned fingers.

Revenant said...

Bob,

The mass of Egyptians are not going to vote for the small Westernized middle class, they are going to vote for the people the local half educated iman tells them to, the Muslim Brotherhood or something similar.

Er... so what's the basis for your claim that there's no chance in hell of them enjoying greater self-determination? You turn right around and predict they'll get to vote for their new leaders. That's self-determination. Sure, maybe they're a bunch of ignoramuses who'll vote for idiots that lead them into one disaster of another.

Why wouldn't they? We have. :(

Will they be anti-American? Sure, probably. But it IS possible to be free and successful AND hate Americans. I'm not saying it is likely, but conflating "they'll probably be our enemies" with "they clearly won't be better off" doesn't work.

The evil Mubarak outlawed framle genital mutation.

He outlawed it four years ago; the law was barely enforced, and over 90% of post-pubescent women in Egypt have been victims of the procedure.

Maybe his replacement will raise the rate to 100%. But there's more room for things to get better than there is for them to get worse.

Nora said...

So Mubarak transfers power to the army and "Egypt is free!" ? What a crock. Mubarak, as Sadat and Nasser before him, were the members of military party that overthrew Egyptian monarchy. They were and are the military. So basically it's business as usual in Cairo

Paul Ciotti said...

I'm embarrassed at our president's inability to wholeheartedly welcome regime change in Egypt. The entire world (with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Israel) is out there cheering for a popular Egyptian revolution and our president is so conflicted he can't say amen.

I know Egypt may just end up with a new dictator in place of the old one.
But even that's an improvement over the same old despot for the last 30 years.

AllenS said...

I know Egypt may just end up with a new dictator in place of the old one.
But even that's an improvement over the same old despot for the last 30 years.


Very good, Mr. Ciotti, dictators should always be replaced every 30 years or so.

rhhardin said...

Belmont Club

In the coming weeks Egypt will try to find its way forward to a future that only capitalism and democracy can fulfill, a search that may be replicated all across the legion. And look as they will, no one will sell it to them unless they figure things out for themselves. Meanwhile, Teheran and Damascus will be touting their wares, not because they are any good, but because there’s a sucker born every minute. At heart Barack Obama’s dilemma and his distinction from the Bush democracy agenda may spring from an unwillingness to see solutions like Cuba or Iran or Syria as unacceptable end states. He may not even see America as the proper end state for America.

Fen said...

Bottom line: America should support self-determination of all people. Liberty for all, even Egypt.

And if that means they decide to wage Jihad against us anyway, at least they'll die free.

Team Obama really fumbled the ball on this one. He managed to piss of our friends and our enemies, reveal incompetence and ignorance, appearing weak and conflicted.

It would have been better if Obama had been on a "golfing vacation" during all this.

Paul Ciotti said...

Very good, Mr. Ciotti, dictators should always be replaced every 30 years or so.

And readers who misstate what writers write should be replaced even oftener.