February 17, 2011

"Day of Rage' Hits Wisconsin."

It's the top headline at Drudge.

Subheads:
New Gov. takes on State Employees Unions...
Madison schools, others closed amid call for demonstrations...
1,100 teachers call in 'sick'...
Obama: 'Assault'...
Rep.: 'Like Cairo Moved To Madison'...
PAPER: 'Unions want to overturn election result'...

196 comments:

LordSomber said...

As someone who didn't miss a day of high school, I have zero respect for these teachers who call in "sick."

wordsmith2 said...

I would advise teachers to step back, take a deep breath, use the critical thinking skills they're supposed to be teaching their students, and really look at the fundamental collective bargaining issue: what are the unions actually doing for them (and the children they claim to care so much about) vs. what are the unions doing to enhance union power.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Thanks, Glenn Beck…I’m a very, very young baby Boomer, but “Days of Rage” would have to include riots, marches, fire, police beatings, National Guard shootings, and bombings by extremist groups…IF this is the “Days of Rage” what was Chicago 1968, Kent State and the Weather Underground? Drudge needs to back off this hyperbole, as does Mr. Beck….

Anita said...

Rage? Wait, the new rules of civility in public discourse state that you can't be angry. Someone could get hurt, or worse, offended.

Ohhhhh, they're libs doing the raging. Carry on then. The media's got your back.

James said...

State Senate just called into session; a vote on the Budget Repair Bill is expected soon. Once it passes the Senate, its game over.

Dose of Sanity said...

I think Gov. Walker should probably have negotiated and not tried for this partisan play under the guise of fiscal responsibility.

You're willing to take a pay cut, lose benefits and even negotiated a contract. After a new governor takes power, he not only fails to honor you previously negotiated contract but refuses to even talk about a new one.

Of course people are protesting. Left or right, it's not the smart move.

edutcher said...

Day of rage?

Egypt had a day of rage.

Tunisia had a day of rage.

Jordan, Yemen, and Libya are having a day of rage.

WI is having an afternoon of hissy fit.

Hagar said...

The teachers unions of the Peoples Republic of Madison, Wisc., have done great damage to the public school teachers' cause.

However, I also remember the bad, old days, and the teachers do need protection against the the verkramptes of the local school boards.

Things have gotten out of hand when NEA and the AFT affiliate with the thugs of SEIU and threaten the State Government, but I think this may be more due to poor leadership and misguided loyalty to "liberal" causes, than evil intent.

Teachers are generally good people, which is why they become teachers in the first place, but they obviously are as liable to herd, or mob, action as anyone else when gathered in one place.

(Double posting, but I think it is worth it. Everybody need to take a deep breath and step back a little.)

shoutingthomas said...

"Day of Rage" seems appropriate to me.

I think we are seeing the apotheosis of the left's long march through our institutions.

And, at the same time, I think you are seeing the cracks appear.

Leftist domination of academia and public institutions is about to be seriously challenged. Next up, taking on the leftist indoctrination mills of academia and the arts.

I'll deploy my own sordid, ludicrous metaphor to describe this.

Don't all those charming, enthusiastic schoolchildren turned out by the teacher's unions remind you of the equally happy, industrious Hitler Youth?

Two can play at this game.

MadisonMan said...

Rage?

I don't think that accurately reflects what went on yesterday. Not sure about today.

The latest rumor I've heard is that all the Democratic Senators have left the building, so to speak. And that you need 20 Senators around to vote, and that there are only 19 there now.

Lincolntf said...

"I don't think that accurately reflects what went on yesterday. Not sure about today."


What do you think motivates people to compare their Governor to one of the greatest villains of all time? If it ain't rage, what is it? Pure blind stupidity?

galdosiana said...

Luckily I don't have to go in to campus on Thursdays, but one of my friends who teaches today called me this morning actually scared to go in to teach because of our vitriolic colleagues who have intimidated everyone else into canceling classes and going to the capitol to continue the protest. This is insanity the likes of which I've never seen, and if my facebook feed is any indication, today will be the most militant, spiteful day yet.

traditionalguy said...

This cruelty to teachers in Wisconsin is beyond my understanding. And they did not even offer them any government surplus cheese to live on.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)


Four dead in Bahrain is “Days of Rage”…a messy Capitol lawn is not….please don’t mistake this as sympathy for the protestors.

TosaGuy said...

Judging from Meade's photos it looks more like "A day of littering"

garage mahal said...

I think Gov. Walker should probably have negotiated and not tried for this partisan play under the guise of fiscal responsibility.

Walker was governor for all of 20 minutes before he signed into law 137 million in giveaways to his donors. We now have a CRISIS!!!!

It's all bullshit. Rescind that, and the "crisis" is over. But of course it was never about that, it's all about destroying and disrupting Democratic strongholds, it's equilibrium, and it's economic activity. Walker wants Madison to look like North Mississippi. Fuck you asshole. I like Madison the way it is.

Hagar said...

lincolntf,

How about "great foolishness?"

James said...

The State Police can round up the Democratic senators and bring them back to the Senate floor. Unless then plan to flee the state like what happened in Texas.

Henry said...

"Day of Rage" gets used because of the assonance.

"Day of Litter" doesn't have the same ring.

"Noon of Goons" could work.

James said...

What are these $137 million giveaways you keep taking about? Make a list.

Lincolntf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MadisonMan said...

Lincolntf, as Joe notes, Rage begets deaths.

Day of Protests (well, Another Day of Protests) would be more descriptive, but less clickworthy.

David said...

The latest rumor I've heard is that all the Democratic Senators have left the building, so to speak. And that you need 20 Senators around to vote, and that there are only 19 there now.

And how's that going to work out in voters minds?

Hissy fit indeed.

MadisonMan said...

What are these $137 million giveaways you keep taking about? Make a list.

I think he's talking about this.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

Day of Tantrums.

Foolish parents give in to tantrums. After that, the kids rule the household.

Smart parents ignore the tantrums. When the kids get tired, they'll go take a nap.

But my favorite parents are the ones who tell the kid, "Oh, you can do better than that. Kick some more. Scream louder. You call that a tantrum? That's pretty lame." The kid gives up the tantrum faster that way, confused and angry that it didn't work.

My guess is Governor Walker is that last kind of parent.

shoutingthomas said...

garbage,

First, you're white, aren't you? I think we can bet on that.

So, using the picture of a black man as your avatar makes you a racist.

Take down your racist picture.

Second, you just got busted. There was no $137 million giveaway. $140 in new taxes were rescinded.

AJ Lynch said...

Shorter Gasbag:
"OMG, teachers may have to kick in an extra $100 or so per month for their gold plated benefits! OMG we will be like Mississippi sharecroppers"

Paddy O said...

Hagar, I agree, and I said a similar thing in my first comment on the topic in a previous thread.

The difficulty is that having become obsessed with the political aspects, the teachers unions are no longer in an adversarial relationship with administrators. Basically, in becoming so utterly politicized the union joins the teachers and the administrator into the same generalized causes (much of which don't have a lot to do with direct education). In doing this, the unions actually can begin to work against the best interests of particular teachers in particular situations.

By becoming so politicized, the unions are willing to ignore their primary responsibilities.

Most teachers I know really are good people, and most teachers I know are really frustrated with the use of their union money for causes that go well beyond school issues.

It's not that there's not a role for a teacher's union. It's that the present union has become so bloated as to try to use its good role in the service of its bloated missions. It needs to be shaken up because it is not doing a service to the community anymore, not to the teachers nor to the parents who should have a say in how the schools are functioning.

ALH said...

My co-worker told me that the teachers at her kids grade schools took them to the gym and encourged them all to go home and tell the parents how important it is to support the teachers.

Another'r high school had a "spontaneous" student walk-out, despite none of them really knowing at all WHY they were walking out. The art teacher was even helping make the protest signs prior to the walkout.

I have chosen to send my kids to a parochial school (and NO i am not rich I just sacrifice). I feel the past two days confirm my choice as a good one.

Amartel said...

Haha. "Afternoon of hissy fit."
Seems to be turning into a week of waaaaaahhhhh. But it's For The Kidz, sozealraght.

Actually, every day away from this blinkered belligerent borghive benefits the children.

wordsmith2 said...

Dose of Sanity, your argument "I think Gov. Walker should probably have negotiated" is inapplicable here.

Unionized Wisconsin state employees are under a contract extension that expires in a few weeks because the new contracts were not signed by the lame duck (Democratic) administration in December. The unions were not willing to have the rank-and-file contribute to their pension plan and health insurance premiums back then. Why should Walker have assumed that this would change, without drastic action?

Also, this is a stopgap measure to close a budget shortfall in the current fiscal year. In terms of nonbudgeted upcoming outlays, the state is required under court action to repay $200 million to the medical malpractice claims fund (raided in 2007), to pay $169 million for Medicaid, and to pay $58 million to Minnesota for a tax reciprocity agreement.

The 2011-2013 budget has yet to be discussed but will have to close a $3 billion shortfall.

This is not a manufactured crisis, except in union spin.

Dose of Sanity said...

I just don't see one logical or legitimate response to the fact that everyone is willing to take paycuts, take benefits cuts and has already proved it in a contract.

Refusing to negotiate prompts this sort of response.

As to the 140 million, tax cuts are tax cuts. It's illogical to me to fight a debt by cutting income. I'm aware of the argument that "people who receive that many again will use it to generate more, thus bringing in more tax money". Mathematically though - the likelihood of that happening approaches nil. That's not the argument for today, though - today is about pure politics.

Bill S. said...

Have the teachers considered the fact that the state is broke and cannot afford the current level of benefits? It's a simple concept...there is not enough money to go around. Everyone will have to sacrifice. Man up.

MadisonMan said...

Another'r high school had a "spontaneous" student walk-out, despite none of them really knowing at all WHY they were walking out.

You've mastered the Art of Generalization very well.

MadisonMan said...

The 2011-2013 budget has yet to be discussed but will have to close a $3 billion shortfall.

I'll be very curious to see how Road Construction is curtailed in the new budget.

Dose of Sanity said...

Wordsmith - they reached agreement with the "lame duck" administration. Walker demanded that it not be signed. Seeing this as the outcome, the administration saw the politically benefit of letting walker get into this corner. (Something I strongly disagree with as well - don't mess with people's lives for political gain left or right).

Your second argument revolves around a stopgap measure. Granted, one is needed. But why not negotiate it and if the talks failed continue on with a budget plan.

Secondly, why use a "stop-gap" bill to directly attack Unions? It's totally illogical. Just do the pay cuts/pension cuts and work on negotiating for next year?

Do not be fooled that fiscal responsibility is the GUISE of this attack.

Ut said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert R. said...

"$140 in new taxes were rescinded."

Those weren't "new taxes". They were new tax breaks, grants, etc. Which moved the State budget from balanced in the fiscal year to a shortfall, which helped create this "emergency".

The Biennial budget coming up is where the real shit hits the fan though. We'll see how much is actually tax cutting and how much is passing the buck to the local level. So far, there's been very little talk about ending programs and services, and the question remains, if the State doesn't reduce taxes, but demands localities deliver the same services, how are the localities going to pay for it? Raise fees/taxes?

Dose of Sanity said...

I should have cited this originally, but here is the request by walker not to sign contracts I referred to. It was later disclosed that they were willing to take pay cuts/benefit cuts. (Not at the levels of the current bills though)

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/111021504.html

Ut said...

"... it's all about destroying and disrupting Democratic strongholds ..."

That's right motherfucker.

First health care. Then education. Then government. Then corrupt unions.

We're going to destroy every stronghold you socialists have by winning elections.

We intend to outlaw your contracts, fire you whenever we discover and fuck you over just as hard as we possibly can.

All democratic like, but if necessary by other means.

Welcome to the party, pal.

Ut said...

Hearing the lamentations of their women (GarageMahal) makes it all worth it.

Ah, to drink the tears of his unfathomable sadness.

Great day. Great day indeed.

James said...

What are these $137 million giveaways you keep taking about? Make a list.

I think he's talking about this.


That's a joke....even Polifact rates it "Pants on Fire."

Corre∫pondence Committee said...

I think Rush just mentioned you, Althouse - didn't quite catch everything, but it sounded like it.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@racist garbage disposal

"Walker was governor for all of 20 minutes before he signed into law 137 million in giveaways to his donors."

No. Its tax incentives and an HSA deduction. Nice job twisting that into a pretzel.

I concur with Shouting, scrap the obvious, overcompensating avatar. You'll feel better if you read this:

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/gift.html

rhhardin said...

Rush just (2nd hour 13 minutes) referenced Althouse and her pictures of mess.

Dose of Sanity said...

That's a joke....even Polifact rates it "Pants on Fire."

One Wisconsin Now called $140 million in state tax breaks "spending." It’s estimated that the three bills in question would bring in $140 million less to state coffers. But that’s not spending. You can’t spend what you don’t have.

It's a 140 million reduction of income. You should probably read more than "Pants on Fire" before running your mouth. See my earlier post to explain it, if you don't understand.

PaulV said...

Garage,
Sheer Orwellian Newspeak to strike "tax cuts" from lexicon and replace it with "spending".
When is the two minute hate scheduled?

Corre∫pondence Committee said...

Via Byron York (Twitter):

"The Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm -- the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign -- is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html?showall

JAFAC said...

"Macedonia on Mendota"?

Is this what Ms Fox-Piven was asking for?

Lincolntf said...

If using images of Hitler isn't meant to elicit rage, then what are they trying to elicit?
People haven't responded to the calls for rage being bellowed by the Teachers, but that doesn't mean they won't. When you appeal to the lowest common denominator, that's who you get. I wonder how many proto-Loughners are in that woman's classes?

Obhviously, I don't think there'll be bloodshed at these phony rallies, but if one were to look for a more inflammatory image than Hitler, I don't think it'd be found. (Well, maybe a noose, but they use that one too.)

Lem said...

Althouse was mentioned on Rush today.

Shanna said...

Walker wants Madison to look like North Mississippi.

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Why “north” Mississippi? That’s the part by Memphis. Are you talking about the Delta? Have you ever even been to MS? Just curious!

What are these $137 million giveaways you keep taking about? Make a list.

I think he's talking about this.


So garage is taking the “tax cuts = spending” line that our President likes to use. Neat!

Anita said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ALH said...

@ Madison Man - you said:
"You've mastered the Art of Generalization very well."

I did generalize, which was not fair of me. I should have been more specific - per my co-worker, her two daughters and three of their friends that she spoke to had no idea what the walkout was for except that "the teachers and nurses might get fired". Although I am sure that there were some students who truly understood the situation, i suspect that the majority did not.

I would also question the "spontaneity" of the walkout since (per the five students)the administrators went room to room and told the teachers that the students were going to be staging the walkout at 11:30 and they should not attempt to disrupt the event.

AJ Lynch said...

I heard it..Rush called her that law professor & hottie.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

@CC

No surprise.

The f(l)ailing of the left.

Anita said...

"Have the teachers considered the fact that the state is broke and cannot afford the current level of benefits? It's a simple concept...there is not enough money to go around."

They've given it all the consideration that a toddler would when told that he can't have any more cookies because there are no more.

I remember when we'd first moved overseas (the middle east) and we'd been allowed to take a small amount of extra supplies on our flight to our new home. Everything else was being shipped via container.

Anway, one of the things I'd taken was a box of my then two-year-old son's favorite cereal. A week after arrival, it was gone. Now, he was just getting to the point where he could understand and tolerate me telling him "We don't have any more, but Mommy will go to the store later and get some more."

Unfortunately, I had to tell him, "There is no more, and Mommy can't get any at the store because they don't sell that here. You can't have that cereal any more."

I remember him throwing himself on the ground and screaming in rage and frustration. If he had understood the concept, he'd probably have called me Hitler.

Looks like those teachers are behaving the same way.

Trooper York said...

Fire their asses!!!!!!!!

k*thy said...

Why “north” Mississippi?

Think North Dakota, North Carolina.

John said...

How much do teachers make in Wisconsin?

I remember last year when Christie had his confrontation with the teacher. She said she did it because she loved teaching but if she didn't get a raise, would have to quit.

Turned out that she was paid $86,000 in 2009 (Plus benefits)

I really liked her idea of finding another job. What was she qualified to do?

So how much do teachers make in WI? Would they leave for other jobs if they didn't get a raise? Doing what?

Screw 'em

John Henry MSBE

(MSBE stands for Master of Science in Business Education but could also mean Master of Science in Bullshit Engineering. Both are basically the same thing)

Maguro said...

Walker wants Madison to look like North Mississippi.

This is a funny comment. Have you considered the fact that Wisconsin was much richer than Mississippi before it acquired a ginormous, unionized state government?

Please tell me you're not suggesting that the state employees union is responsible for Wisconsin's relative prosperity.

Florida Gator said...

The police are looking for at least one Democrat senator to show up so they can vote! The state senate Democrats are hiding!

Trooper York said...

Madison will never look like Mississippi because they would never let enough black people live there. Just sayn'

Quayle said...

The big, tough Dems are running for the hills.

These moral and compassionate democratic leaders!

These men and women of bold action and courageous leadership!

They're all a bunch of dirty-diaper babies.

Trooper York said...

If Mort was awake he would say that is true.

Robert R. said...

Yeah, the tax cuts aren't spending, although business grants are spending.

Still, it's fair to say that those tax cuts created a revenue shortfall, which necessitated an emergency budget adjustment. Which results in this. And that Walker is aiming for a home run by including union busting provisions in addition to benefits cuts.

It's also why Walker pushed through the tax breaks before this bill and the Biennial budget. It would have been a tougher sell during a budget fight.

But Walker won, so it's expected that he's going to implement his agenda. I'm skeptical though, as it seems to be an anti-Keynesian approach. We'll cut a lot of people's earnings and that somehow will spur economic activity, increase demand for Wisconsin products, create jobs, etc. Granted, the State is in a budget crisis so sacrific is needed, but it's probably better to spread that sacrifice as wide as possible. Much of what Walker has been doing is "targetted", tax breaks, benefit reductions, etc. instead of broad based across the board.

Trooper York said...

I met more black people on the way to work today than live in Madison.

There is a reason for that you know. It is not an accident.

Dose of Sanity said...

John Henry,

All Wisconsin University professors salaries are available, search for them.

This teacher, however, makes $36,000 a year. http://www.isthmus.com/daily/article.php?article=32238

Worth a read before you lose you f-ing mind in the bullshit you so proudly espouse.

Shanna said...

Why “north” Mississippi?

Think North Dakota, North Carolina.


So...garage is under the impression that there are two separate states down here, south mississippi and north mississippi? (hint, there are not!)

edutcher said...

Quayle said...

The big, tough Dems are running for the hills.

That's the headline on Drudge now.

Democrats Flee WI

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

It's a 140 million reduction of income. You should probably read more than "Pants on Fire" before running your mouth

Tax breaks on two of the bills can only be claimed if employers create jobs. Presumably, these new employees will be paying state taxes on their compensation. This represents new tax revenue.

The remaining bill allows Wisconsin residents to take a deduction that almost every other state provides. Some would argue that removing incentives for residents to relocate elsewhere also has a positive effect on state tax revenue. Obviously this is more difficult to quantify.

Lincolntf said...

I love the Dems taking off and hiding from the voters. What a bunch of shitbags. Can't even be bothered to represent their constituents if they think they might lose.
When Wisconsin is done dealing with their deadbeat Teachers, they should take a look at their deadbeat legislators.

Lincolntf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
garage mahal said...

So garage is taking the “tax cuts = spending” line that our President likes to use. Neat!

Ok, Walker is "redistributing the wealth". No? That only works one way does it?

Nobody is disputing the tax breaks he gave, no one is disputing that he is telling state workers they must sacrifice due to a budget deficit. Is it really that hard to put these two simple things together?

MadisonMan said...

Can't even be bothered to represent their constituents if they think they might lose.

I rather doubt their constituents will complain. They were not elected, after all, to bust unions.

Dose of Sanity said...

I love this attack on teachers in Wisconsin. I've the privilege to have Althouse as a professor. I wonder how she feels about attacks on "deadbeat WI teachers".

On the news of the democrats leaving: Good on them. You don't negotiate, they don't negotiate.

garage mahal said...

?So, using the picture of a black man as your avatar makes you a racist.

What in the holy hell are you talking about? LOL. You're drunk already, or losing it badly.

Lincolntf said...

Wisconsin's new State motto:

"Run away, run away!"

Hagar said...

Please tell me you're not suggesting that the state employees union is responsible for Wisconsin's relative prosperity.

And see Robert R(eich?) above.

That's exactly what they think. Democrats today are quite unable to distinguish betwen "work" and "make-work," and they do think of government employees as productive labor rather than the overhead expense they are.

Lincolntf said...

They were elected to FUCKING VOTE on Legislation.

Make all the excuses you want, these people are not just lazy and stupid, they are cowards.

Bobby Dupea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David said...

Trooper York said...
Madison will never look like Mississippi because they would never let enough black people live there. Just sayn'

That's already been done in Madison, Troop, via real estate pricing. It has the advantage to the liberals of keeping out those embarrassing poor white people too.

Bobby Dupea said...

@Madison Man,

Do Wisconsin Democrats only subscribe to the democratic process when they have more votes than their opponents? So, they were elected to either a) have their way or b) run away?

Just curious. In Iowa we subscribe to a system of legislative voting, whether or not this or that party is in the majority.

Leland said...

Hey WI Democrats fled. TX Democrats tried that, and now Texas is more Republican. Slow learning curve, but it might be because their teachers kept calling in sick.

Rialby said...

It's all about Wisconsin!

Paul Zrimsek said...

Tax breaks on two of the bills can only be claimed if employers create jobs.

And we have Garbage's word on it that no jobs are being created, so that sounds pretty frugal. Not as frugal as handing gobs of money to honorary non-corporation Talgo, but pretty frugal nonetheless.

David said...

Robert R sez: The Biennial budget coming up is where the real shit hits the fan though. We'll see how much is actually tax cutting and how much is passing the buck to the local level. So far, there's been very little talk about ending programs and services, and the question remains, if the State doesn't reduce taxes, but demands localities deliver the same services, how are the localities going to pay for it? Raise fees/taxes?

Correct.

Walker is going to have to follow up with some even tougher medicine.

The worst thing he can do would be to fail in his overall objectives of getting the budget in balance, despite coming to grips with the employee union issues.

John said...

Dose of Sanity:

Not sure what bullshit you think I am espousing. I do have a Masters in Education, from the education department of a respected university. I have also taught in the graduate business school of that university since 1982.

I have a (real) masters degree with a dual concentration in HR management and Operations management as well as a BA in business and an AS in oceanography.

I also teach packaging technology to graduate students in a well respected engineering school.

So I have some experience in and around academia in several universities and several disciplines. My experience is that the education department in general and my ed degree in specific, are pretty much the most content neutral thing you could have. Even calling it an "education" is a joke. It is merely a credential. Nothing is taught and nothing is learned in ed schools. Not just mine, but from research I did, in any ed school.

I did find the site where I could look of individual teacher salaries but, since I don't know the names of any WI teachers, it was pretty useless.

I also found another site that put most teacher salaries in the $45-60m/yr range, plus benefits.

Not a bad income for 17-1800 hours work and what is basically a glamified HS diploma.

John Henry

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Dose of Sanity said...

This teacher, however, makes $36,000 a year. http://www.isthmus.com/daily/article.php?article=32238

Okay, I'll bite. Why is that school district paying anybody anything to teach pre-kindergarden?

And to answer the question from the teacher in the article, no, I don't want my children's teacher to be highly educated. I want them to be well educated.

Dose of Sanity said...

Apologies John, was merely playing on your signature to your previous post.

As to the rest, I'd like to see where you found that was their salary in WI.

It's still beside the point to this entire debate, as I mentioned above.

Bobby Dupea said...

@Dose of Sanity,

What is the Wiscy definition of "negotiate"?

Is it, "You can't pass laws we disagree with, and if you try, we'll run away?"

I thought that -- but this is just the Iowa definition, I suppose -- the *negotiation* is made *manifest* in the voting. But it seems in Wisconsin that if the negotiation goes badly for one side, they get to run away and prevent the voting.

This would seem to suggest that "negotiate", to some, simply means, "I never lose." It's like the legislative equivalent, apparently, of "Too big to fail."

John said...

Dose,

The attack, as I understand it and certainly as I meant it in my notes, is on teachers, not on professors.

Professors in most disciplines actually got to school and learn things.

I think I am probably close to unique in that I teach non-education disciplines but have an education degree.

Did you go to an ed school, Dose? What did you learn? Did you major in history? Math? Science? Some other actual useful subject?

Or, like most teachers, did you major in education?

John Henry

edutcher said...

There's an item on Daily Caller that the old Obama campaign machine is manning the phone banks and making sure the busses are filled.

Starting to feel like Last Stand time at the DNC.

If the unions can't save them, and vicey versa, is all lost?

Triangle Man said...

I did find the site where I could look of individual teacher salaries but, since I don't know the names of any WI teachers, it was pretty useless.

@John

This was all posted yesterday in a thread with links to the state education budget spreadsheets. Total compensation (including benefits) for teachers averages around $67,000.

Of course, teachers are only a fraction of the public sector employees covered by collective bargaining.

Robert R. said...

"Tax breaks on two of the bills can only be claimed if employers create jobs. Presumably, these new employees will be paying state taxes on their compensation. This represents new tax revenue."

One of those tax breaks amounts to about $400 per job, which doesn't spur any kind of job creation that wouldn't have occurred anyways. It's a pat on the head for job creation that would have been done anyway.

Obviously, Walker won and had a right to pass his agenda. But it's effectiveness certainly is open to questioning. As well as how much of an "emergency" this really is and how much was created by Walker as cover for his lack of negotiation.

Some of this may be counter-productive. Like pushing through a bill to avoid a wetlands hearing only to discover that Bass Pro Shops, who they were hoping to lure, has no intention on building on wetlands in the first place.

Lincolntf said...

So now the fat illiterates who were bussed in by the Democrats are inside the Statehouse disrupting the vote (Per TV News)?
Classic. Let us all see what kind of people are "educating" American children. Fucking dregs.

Dose of Sanity said...

@ Bobby.

Please read and understand what we are talking about before you run your mouth. Admittedly, It does make you look like an idiot easier, but cmon, really.

Point 1: Unions already negotiated contracts. Proof: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/111021504.html

Point 2: Since taking office, Walker has refused to negotiate AT ALL instead bashing this legislation down everyone throats. Proof: "During a news conference on Friday morning, Walker said he won't negotiate with unionized state workers because the state is broke and he has nothing to offer them."

That's what I mean by not negotiating Bobby. In our state - teachers taught us to read.

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
John said...

Teacher salaries here:

http://teacherportal.com/salary/Wisconsin-teacher-salary

They say average salary (not including benefits) is $46,390

The actual source for original comments was a WI newspaper article from the past few days which I cannot now find again.

John Henry

Dose of Sanity said...

@ John.

Sorry, I realized that previous post may have indicated I was a teacher by saying "this teacher". I wasn't referring to myself. As I mentioned, before Althouse is actually my professor, which means I'm in Law School.

J said...

Schoolmarmies protesting does not "Days of Rage" make. BeckBelch sounds even more ridiculous than usual--then, most Mormonics are rabidly anti-union. It's part of the teachings of Moroni or something--Associate not with the Lamanites known as "union members". It is iniquity.

That said, public employee unions (unlike say plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc) are......iffy--even Karlo Marx thought so--though any politico opposed to schoolteachers unions should, a fortiori, break up cop and firefighter and custodian unions as welll. Maybe break up fundamentalist unions, aka "churches" too.

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

From the Daily Caller:

President Obama offered his opinion, declaring Walker’s measures an “assault on unions” despite admitting he hadn’t looked into the details.

If that's an accurate paraphrase, this is another "scted stupidly" moment.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

As to the rest, I'd like to see where you found that was their salary in WI.

It was posted in a link in a thread yesterday.
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=6027990460914569404

I did a calculation on the spread sheet

"It appears according to the spreadsheet you linked the AVERAGE high compensation is 48,978 and the AVERAGE fringes that the teachers receive "tax free" is an additional 25,690 for a total average compensation of $74,668"

So in your sob story that you linked the teacher is getting a rather low salary and thus is representative of the low end of the bell curve. However when you add in the approximately 20K of fringes...the compensation is something like 50K in the private sector.

Are some people lower on the pay scale than others....DUH. Does a brand new teacher start out at the top of the pay scale....hardly. Does ANYONE usually start out at the top of the pyramid? Boo hoo.

You want us to make policy for everyone based on one sad case?

Lincolntf said...

"That's what I mean by not negotiating Bobby. In our state - teachers taught us to read."

Actually, if you paid attention to the signs being waved by the "Teachers", you'd see that literacy isn't exactly a Wisconsin public school strong suit. You people "NEEN" better teachers, not more of these babbling union idiots.

chickelit said...

As I mentioned, before Althouse is actually my professor, which means I'm in Law School.

Get used to pro bono work.

Triangle Man said...

Just a bit of history about public unions in Wisconsin:


"AFSCME was founded in 1932 as the Wisconsin State Administrative, Clerical, Fiscal and Technical Employees Association (quickly becoming the Wisconsin State Employees Association) amid fears of the possible elimination of the civil service and a return to patronage jobs."

Lincolntf said...

Thank God the Unions did away with "patronage".

chickelit said...

@Martin Shoemaker: A Sentinel article linked by Drudge makes it pretty clear that this isn't about fundamental rights--it's about concessions: link

Rich B said...

I heard the reporter on the ABC network news (before the third hour of Rush) emphasize how respectful and orderly the demonstrators are. That seems to conflict with the shouting down of the legislators in the capitol that Rush has described. I suspect that Rush is correct based on what you have posted and the pictures from inside the capitol.

Cedarford said...

(I attended the Tea Party rally at the Wisconsin State Capitol last year on April 15th, and I did not see a scrap of litter left behind. Participants not only took care to leave no trash of their own, they looked around and made sure no one else did.)

Thats a very good observation. I will pass that on the Drudge Tip line as from Anne Althouse, who is in Madison monitoring the state employee union protests, and has many photos of the piles of garbage the state workers left.

J said...

The State would be better off firing, budget-wise, Administrators, and hiring 5-6 teachers. Let the teachers do the bureaucracy work as well.

The Galthouse hates teachers unions too. Collectivist rabble, per the deeep thoughts of Ayn Rynd.

David said...

I also found another site that put most teacher salaries in the $45-60m/yr range, plus benefits.

Wisconsin public school teacher salaries are set locally, by the school districts. They vary considerably by locality and are not close to NJ levels, or even the levels you cite.

My daughter teaches 2d grade in a public school in a small city in northern Wisconsin. She is an outstanding teacher. She has over 10 years experience and has won a Kohl Award, given to outstanding teachers in various districts throughout the state. Parents lobby to get their kids into her class.

She is paid about $40k per year, plus benefits. The principal benefits are health insurance (to which she contributes part of the cost), and a pension, which is defined contribution, and to which she also must contribute. Her hours are long, the job is difficult and since she has two children of her own, the summers off are very welcome.

I don't know about compensation for Madison teachers, but it's probably quite a bit higher.

I support what Walker is doing, but not because public school teachers are the main problem. The problem is in the UW system, local community college systems (utterly out of control), state and local employees of various types and excessive head counts in unnecessary jobs.

The Madison teachers are idiots for abandoning their kids this week, but don't think that most public school teachers in Wisconsin have a gravy train. They don't.

lucid said...

Hagar said:
"The teachers unions of the Peoples Republic of Madison, Wisc., have done great damage to the public school teachers' cause.

However, I also remember the bad, old days, and the teachers do need protection against the the verkramptes of the local school boards.

Things have gotten out of hand when NEA and the AFT affiliate with the thugs of SEIU and threaten the State Government, but I think this may be more due to poor leadership and misguided loyalty to "liberal" causes, than evil intent.

Teachers are generally good people, which is why they become teachers in the first place, but they obviously are as liable to herd, or mob, action as anyone else when gathered in one place.

(Double posting, but I think it is worth it. Everybody need to take a deep breath and step back a little.)"


Well said. I agree on all points. There are. of course, issues to be negotiated here. But, just like the rest of us, teachers work for money, not for love--even if they love what they do. It is always odd to me how much populist sentiment hates teachers and wants to punish them. Like my dimwitted sister-in-law and her Neanderthal husband.

Dose of Sanity said...

Again, I'm not (and nor are they) objecting to pay cuts and benefits reductions.

The issue is the gutting of the unions and total failure to negotiate.

Still haven't heard one legitimate argument in response to that.

Triangle Man said...

@David

What problems that you have with the UW system would be solved by Gov. Walker's bill?

Almost Ali said...

Question of the day: Are there enough illegal aliens in Madison to clean up the teacher's trash? Or will they have to bring in a union.

Shanna said...

Some of this may be counter-productive. Like pushing through a bill to avoid a wetlands hearing only to discover that Bass Pro Shops, who they were hoping to lure, has no intention on building on wetlands in the first place.

You’re not from Arkansas are you? We’ve been trying to get a bass pro shop for approximately 10 years in a spot with “wetlands” and it hasn’t happened. Meanwhile Gander Mountain moved in and I think that’s all she wrote.

J said...

Yes, lucid.
Teachers of whatever sort really bother Yokeli Americanus. Were it up to the usual biblethumping conservative or teabagger, the local baptist and/or mormon churches would hire teachers, and run the education business.

Hagar said...

Cedar,

Ann Althouse is working. Meade (a free agent) is/was downtown taking pictures

Martin L. Shoemaker said...

chickelit, I meant that if it's accurate that President Obama "knows" that this is "an assault on unions" even though "he hadn’t looked into the details", then he hasn't learned from the "acting stupidly" incident. Or the Arizona immigration bill. Or the Egypt uprisings. Or...

Some advice for President Obama, and indeed any politician: if you haven't looked into the details, say "I haven't looked into the details," and stop there.

Shanna said...

President Obama offered his opinion, declaring Walker’s measures an “assault on unions” despite admitting he hadn’t looked into the details.

Why comment then? Sheesh! Time for another beer summit I guess...

John said...

Just for clarity, I have nothing against teachers, per se. I think they are as much victims of the system as anyone else.

My objections are much more fundamental. My objections are to the way we train teachers. Or more accurately, don't train them. They get exposed to lots of touchy feely stuff but very little education.

They then try to teach subjects of which they have little or no knowledge.

My problems are also with curricula which emphasize touchy feely stuff at the expense of actually teaching useful knowledge. We have kids getting HS diplomas who cannot read or write or do simple math.

We have lots of problems her in PR with our education system but I do like the way we handle teacher education. For the most part, teachers get regular degrees, in regular disciplines, in regular university departments. They come out with regular majors and minors in education.

For example, my wife, has been teaching HS history civics, history and the like since 1972. She has a BA in History and political science and a minor in education.

We need more of this kind of education for our teachers. We need to make it easier for people who actually know stuff and have done things to be able to teach. Bill Gates could not teach computer science in HS unless he went back and 1) got a BA 2) got a bunch of education credits.

On the other hand, our hostess is, by all accounts, a pretty good teacher of law. I don't think she has any formal training or credentials in education.

See the difference?

John Henry

Anita said...

"So now the fat illiterates who were bussed in by the Democrats are inside the Statehouse disrupting the vote (Per TV News)?"

I'm glad to see that our moral and intellectual betters are behaving in a civilized manner, unlike those horrible teabaggers.

they're a model of civil behaviour in public discourse.

Drudge has a link to an article saying that the tail-between-legs Dems got on a bus and left the state-- so they don't have to do something as icky as vote on this bill.

Ah yes, democracy in action.

MadisonMan said...

We’ve been trying to get a bass pro shop for approximately 10 years in a spot with “wetlands” and it hasn’t happened.

The point was, the Legislature ran the bill exempting the spot from Wetlands Proctection through. And then Bass turned around and said "We don't build on wetlands." And that was that.

Seems like the energy and time to get the Bill through was pretty much a waste.

Ut said...

"President Obama offered his opinion, declaring Walker’s measures an “assault on unions” despite admitting he hadn’t looked into the details."

See, by framing efforts to reign in government spending as an "assault" then the Democrats can begin to feel that their violence is "self defense."

That way, they can get past the barrier they need to get past in order to wildly begin their "class war" that they've been telling us about in the Journal-Sentinal.

They need to feel they are victims before they begin the killings.

You see, we're "assaulting" them ... so them shooting us really is self-defense.

We are rats, you see.

Judenrats.

Michael said...

Lucid: "It is always odd to me how much populist sentiment hates teachers and wants to punish them."

Where do you see hatred of teachers on this or other threads dealing with this topic? Commentators think that teachers should not call in sick when they aren't. commentators believe that the unions are doing the teachers a disservice. commentators believe that teachers have a pretty good gig and appropriate pay. Commentators believe that the system's administration is bloated and perhaps overpaid. But nowhere will you find that teachers are "hated." It is that kind of silly hyperbole that turns off people from the "cause."

9 out of 10 americans don't have jobs. the public sector has grown during this period. People are naturally a bit peeved with these demonstrations.

Dose of Sanity said...

Indeed I do John - maybe make that distinction before lambasting education departments. I'm sure I'm not the only one who made that assumption.

I am glad to know you read responses and post directly back to them. Too few people do that.

I'll get heated and throw down with anyone, but I will just as quickly find common ground.

Cheers.

Bobby Dupea said...

@ Dose,

Hey, thanks for the personal attack!

I think Walker's done a good job negotiating. He's taken FDR's 1937 position on the inappropriateness of unions striking against the public, then he's gone forward to find out if he has enough votes to ratify the negotiation.

The subject unions and the Democrats have responded by saying that because they won this particular negotiation in decades past, they can't lose the negotiation in the present day. So they've run away, Thanks for confirming my point: "negotiating", in Wiscy, means never having to say (to your compulsory union members) you're sorry, you lost a vote.

The thing about negotiations is that they're funny -- they can go either way. You can win or lose. You can lose things you used to win. You can win things you used to lose. It's the darndest thing, because, as it turns out the world and its voters change.

Next I guess we'll hear that this is an "assault" on union members' civil rights, and we can get the Justice Department in there to rehabilitate the legislature! "Assault": it's like a failure to "negotiate".

Dose of Sanity said...

9 out of 10 americans don't have jobs. the public sector has grown during this period. People are naturally a bit peeved with these demonstrations.

90% unemployment? Holy shit.

:-p

I'm sure you meant something else, but damn that made me laugh.

iftheshoefits said...

So the democrats are hiding to prevent a vote?

Isn't this essentially the same as filibustering? I though filibusters were very, very bad!

iftheshoefits said...

If only you guys had high-speed trains, none of this icky stuff would be going on.

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

"Madison — Law enforcement officers are searching for Democratic senators boycotting a Senate vote on Gov. Scott Walker's budget-repair plan Thursday in an attempt to bring the lawmakers to the floor to allow Republicans to move forward with action on the bill."

http://bit.ly/ekFwww

PaulV said...

No Walker = FDR pictures?

Dose of Sanity said...

@ Bobby.

Your welcome, I'll happily make you look silly any time.

Now, judging by the content of your post you either didn't read the articles or you didn't understand them.

I'd like you help you, if possible. Do you need more articles? Video instead if you have problems reading?

Or, if you didn't understand, shall I explain it more slowly?

Trooper York said...

Fire their asses!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael said...

Meant to say "only 9 out of 10 americans have jobs"

David said...

Triangle Man said...
@David

"What problems that you have with the UW system would be solved by Gov. Walker's bill?"

Very few. They need to reduce administrative head count and concentrate resources on faculty and instruction. That will not be achieved by this bill, which no one claims is the overall solution. It's just one necessary step.

AJ Lynch said...

Both of my parents were public school teachers and member of the union.

But nowadays, too many public schools have created ginormous & expensive bureaucracies that suck too many tax dollars out of the classroom. Therefore, teachers are paid less because there are fewer dollars left after the bureaucracy gets its money. Teachers should be protesting against the bureaucracies. Turn their pitchforks against the curriculum advisors, the layers & layers of educrats, the assts to the assts to the assts principals, the district spokespeople, etc.

Coketown said...

Skinner says the teachers' union will crack any minute purple monkey dishwasher.

J said...

Hicks hate schoolmarmies. Goes back to like Reconstruction or something--why, Miss O'Grundy might have ..passed a frenchy class or read some marians, ancient greek pagans, or the infidel Darwin, etc.

David said...

J said...
Hicks hate schoolmarmies.

Yeah, that's why we're hicks. That's the problem with this blog and its commenters. Nobody with any education.

Shanna said...

The point was, the Legislature ran the bill exempting the spot from Wetlands Proctection through. And then Bass turned around and said "We don't build on wetlands." And that was that.

Thanks, MM. I just think it’s interesting that there was a wetlands+bass pro shop issue in another town. I wonder if the “we don’t build on wetlands” thing was the reason ours stalled out. (although we didn’t have similar legislative actions to try to exempt the spot, they did try to do some sort of tax incentive. The project never got off the ground, though).

Also, in Arkansas we just call wetlands “swamps”.

Joe said...

(The Crypto Jew)

Also, in Arkansas we just call wetlands “swamps”.


And that’s your first mistake, no one will protect a “swamp”, but they’ll die to protect, “Wetlands.” Just like no one cares about the “Jungle” but turn them into “Rain Forests” and suddenly it’s a cause celebre.

J said...

1:52-- true dat.




A better solution to the edu-crisis would be like getting rid of religious fundamentalists of all types--from school boards, schools, and politics. Arrest a mormon now for Jefferson

Bobby Dupea said...

I get it now. Union-busting is like head-busting, hence an "assault", and any vote to ratify a decertification of a public employee's union is, facially, illegitimate.

Thank goodness the Democrats in the Wiscy legislature are not dignifying this crime against, hmm, collective-bargaining-by-public-employees-who-call-in-sick-and-refuse-to-work. That's what running away and hiding is for, for goodness sakes.

Walker and a majority of the state and legislature gave them no choice, obviously, because employment agreements only increase in value, forever, irrespective of the world changing and stuff.

Lincolntf said...

Just heard on the radio (perhaps tongue in cheek?) that the Dems had fled the State in a "small school bus".

Nothing would be a sweeter illustration of the modern Democrat Party than a picture of them filing onto a "short bus".

Dose of Sanity said...

@ Bobby. Stop posting until you read the facts.

I'm going to respond until you show me that you actually understand the underlying facts.

kent said...

Drudge has a link to an article saying that the tail-between-legs Dems got on a bus and left the state-- so they don't have to do something as icky as vote on this bill.

"FOR THE CHILDRENNNNNNNNNNNN -- !!!"

Mutnodjmet said...

Ann: How does it feel to be on the frontlines for the battle between union elites and average Americans?

Paul Zrimsek said...

The teachers who are supposed to be in their classrooms are in the Capitol.

The senators who are supposed to be in the Capitol are in Illinois.

Madison needs to find some people who are supposed to be in Illinois and bring them into its classrooms.

reader_iam said...

Good grief. Talk about turgid prose. "Like Cairo Moved To Madison"? Sheesh.

---

I suspect different kids chose to do different things during their "time off" for different reasons. (This is not to say I approve of teachers recruiting students to protest; I emphatically do not.) It's been ever thus. And I further suspect the majority did not turn out for the protests, or at least not to actually protest, especially out of personal passion for politics and policy.

---

During the fall of my senior year in high school, there was a weeks' long teachers strike (as in, well more than a month; I don't remember exactly, anymore, but I want to say 6-7 weeks). It commenced just a few weeks after school started, which school year start coincided with the commencement of the first year of court-ordered busing in New Castle County Delaware. Interesting times, and I daresay the experience affected more than a few students' attitudes about various things. However, even more seemed to enjoy being able to spend time at the newly opened Brand New Indoor Mall, which enjoyed quite a boon in traffic and even sales.

So it goes.

Hagar said...

Of course, atheists also are "religious fundamentalists."

Unemployment said...

This is going to be buried as the 153rd comment, but it's interesting to note, once again, some of the violent undertones in the propaganda on display. In addition to the Hitler references, there are many signs, chants, etc, calling for the bill to be killed. All this while children walk the streets, learning how to behave from their teachers.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Still haven't heard one legitimate argument in response to that.



That's because you are not listening. It has been asked and answered many times.

J said...

2: 08: of course, you're wrong. For that matter, opposing religious fundamentalists does not imply one's an atheist either, except to those afflicted with the GlennBeck-disease (typical symptom--inability to reason, prone to barking out conservative slogans, bible verses, or Ayn Rynd-quotes).

A IS A, goldangit

Lamar63 said...

Dose of Sanity says,

"Still haven't heard one legitimate argument in response to that."

Scott Walker says, "I won."

Dose of Sanity said...

@ Dust Bunny. Where? Show it to me, once.

@ Lamar hahahaha. Hope you didn't oppose "Obamacare" then.

Bobby Dupea said...

I think it's extraordinarily instructive that the Democratic Senators have fled the scene. Usually, when one takes an oath to uphold an office (that is, in other states), there isn't language like, "... unless it appears that distressing legislative defeat is likely, in which case, flee the state."

Irene said...

More on violent rhetoric.

J said...

Hey Lincolntf, maybe roundup some of yr pals from the masonic hall, or baptist church, or harley riders, and go down there and bust some heads, anti-unionist hero.


Most of the rabid anti-unionists here are most likely unemployed, blue-collar types, or ...small bidness WASPs--ie, motivated purely by resentment, and revenge (or racism).

Lincolntf said...

Nice one, Irene.
It's always to fun to point out the double (actually, "NO") standards when Democrats are involved.

madawaskan said...

Fire in the hole!!!

madawaskan said...

Wait....wrong thread.

Bobby Dupea said...

J that's so helpful. By reading my mind *and* motivations, I don't have to drop $300 at the shrink this week.

I keep forgetting that the best way to win hearts and minds is just to veer directly to mind reading and ad hominem speculations. Thanks for reminding me.

Lincolntf said...

Hey J, why don't you go round up some of your buddies from the commune and pick up all the garbage that was left behind by the scumbag Union thugs? Have the first useful day in your benighted life.

madawaskan said...

Why do we have so many incoming?

Man the sitemeter!

madawaskan said...

As I mentioned, before Althouse is actually my professor, which means I'm in Law School.

Althouse, up your game.

This kid has no sense of humor whatsoever.

David "MVP" Eckstein said...

The people who are inciting the phrase of don't tread on me should realize the irony of using a phrase to oppose excessive taxation to promote INCREASED taxation to cover these debts and pay these cut benefits.

Shanna said...

And that’s your first mistake, no one will protect a “swamp”, but they’ll die to protect, “Wetlands.”

I have no idea why you would have any desire to protect a swamp. Arkansas is humid enough!! In fact, I think my city used to be about half swampland in the old days before we fixed that nonsense.

Mateo G said...

For once I'm glad the state most in the news is not my home, Florida.

Thank you, Wisconsin.

shoutingthomas said...

J

You're a fucking imbecile.

Go away.

You're not funny. You're not clever.

You're just a fucking imbecile.

J said...

Bobby--as with most of the hicks and tweekers here, yr too focking stupid for rational discussion. 'Nuff said.

Piss test time at the Galthouse!

Triangle Man said...

That's because you are not listening. It has been asked and answered many times.

@DBQ

I have made a comprehensive catalog of the comments on this thread that relate (even peripherally) to the rationale or a justification of the Governor's bill. Please point out which one you think answers the question that Dose of Sanity asked.


#ShoutingThomas
Leftist domination of academia and public institutions is about to be seriously challenged. Next up, taking on the leftist indoctrination mills of academia and the arts.

#Paddy O
It's not that there's not a role for a teacher's union. It's that the present union has become so bloated as to try to use its good role in the service of its bloated missions. It needs to be shaken up because it is not doing a service to the community anymore, not to the teachers nor to the parents who should have a say in how the schools are functioning.

#Wordsmith2
Unionized Wisconsin state employees are under a contract extension that expires in a few weeks because the new contracts were not signed by the lame duck (Democratic) administration in December. The unions were not willing to have the rank-and-file contribute to their pension plan and health insurance premiums back then. Why should Walker have assumed that this would change, without drastic action?

#Robert R
But Walker won, so it's expected that he's going to implement his agenda. I'm skeptical though, as it seems to be an anti-Keynesian approach. We'll cut a lot of people's earnings and that somehow will spur economic activity, increase demand for Wisconsin products, create jobs, etc. Granted, the State is in a budget crisis so sacrific is needed, but it's probably better to spread that sacrifice as wide as possible. Much of what Walker has been doing is "targetted", tax breaks, benefit reductions, etc. instead of broad based across the board.

#Robert R (again)
Obviously, Walker won and had a right to pass his agenda. But it's effectiveness certainly is open to questioning. As well as how much of an "emergency" this really is and how much was created by Walker as cover for his lack of negotiation.

#David
I support what Walker is doing, but not because public school teachers are the main problem. The problem is in the UW system, local community college systems (utterly out of control), state and local employees of various types and excessive head counts in unnecessary jobs.

#John
My objections are much more fundamental. My objections are to the way we train teachers. Or more accurately, don't train them. They get exposed to lots of touchy feely stuff but very little education. 

#Michael
Commentators think that teachers should not call in sick when they aren't. commentators believe that the unions are doing the teachers a disservice. commentators believe that teachers have a pretty good gig and appropriate pay. Commentators believe that the system's administration is bloated and perhaps overpaid.

#AJLynch
But nowadays, too many public schools have created ginormous & expensive bureaucracies that suck too many tax dollars out of the classroom. Therefore, teachers are paid less because there are fewer dollars left after the bureaucracy gets its money. Teachers should be protesting against the bureaucracies. Turn their pitchforks against the curriculum advisors, the layers & layers of educrats, the assts to the assts to the assts principals, the district spokespeople, etc.

Ed said...

Cairo didn't come to Wisconsin, Paris did. They're a bunch of overpaid, overpensioned, taxpayer-vampire squids too. And they're cheese isn't as good either.

Dose of Sanity said...

Gratitude to Triangle Man for argument summary.

(If the phrasing seems odd, it may have something to do with the fact I've watched too much Spartacus recently.)

J said...

2: 34-no, the imbecile, would be you satanist-tommy, Ayn Rand lover, GlennBeck suckers

NOw, we find you, byatch--- shouting tommmy DOA

yr games over here, hicks. Back to Breitfart

Bostick said...

Tired of the sour lies? www.lemonparty.org

madawaskan said...

Althouse has been linked by Drudge.

What do you call that?

Drudge-o-calypse?

Somehow the "lanche" ending doesn't seem to fit.

Bobby Dupea said...

Some things would make bad satire because they're just too obvious.

One of the Vanishing Martyrs:

"The story around the world is the rush to democracy," said Democratic Sen. Bob Jauch of Poplar. "The story in Wisconsin is the end of the democratic process."

Yup. We're getting on a bus and abandoning legislative duty and leaving the state -- rather than uphold our offices and vote on a budget because to do so would *be the end of the democratic process.*

Or the fact that the Senate couldn't be convened in order to commit democracy because the anti-vote mob was chanting: "Freedom. Democracy. Unions."

Bobby Dupea said...

Voting: the great crippler of the democratic process.

Lincolntf said...

So if these shitbag shakedown artists take tomorrow off too, can the Governor simply fire their asses? Refusal to work while under contract is grounds for termination, isn't it?
Take the opportunity, Gov. Walker, you won't get a better one. The kids of Wisconsin would be far better off if these foul clumps of deadweight were jettisoned once and for all.

Michael said...

Hicks? Man, there are hicks and there are hicks with the top of the line hicks hailing from The Valley, The San Fernando Freaking Valley where a hick is a hick is a hick on stilts. Lap behind hipsters wearing last year's boots,using last year's expressions, reading the slightly wrong books and listening to the wrong music. Just over the hill the real stuff is going down.

edutcher said...

J is channeling the scene in "Blazing Saddles" where Gene Wilder describes the residents of Rock Ridge as, "The salt of the earth, the common clay; you know - morons" and thinks he's being witty.

He also thinks he's impressing somebody.

"A better solution to the edu-crisis would be like getting rid of religious fundamentalists of all types--from school boards, schools, and politics. Arrest a mormon now for Jefferson" - Gee, is that hate speech?

Cedarford said...

Thats a very good observation. I will pass that on the Drudge Tip line as from Anne Althouse, who is in Madison monitoring the state employee union protests, and has many photos of the piles of garbage the state workers left.

Very sleazy, guy. You know the average union slug hasn't got the guts to face anybody in broad daylight, but trashing some unsuspecting lady's house or car in the dead of night, maybe even attacking her? That's their speed.

As Teddy Kennedy would say, "For shaaaame".

J said...

Ambrose Bierce referred to slang as "the Grunt of the Human hog."

Grunt a-way, Hoghouse

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
autothreads said...

Garage, what do you do for a living?

autothreads said...

This teacher, however, makes $36,000 a year. http://www.isthmus.com/daily/article.php?article=32238

Damn good pay for a part time job with no accountability.

reader_iam said...

Voting: the great crippler of the democratic process

Both pithy and outstanding!

E.M. Davis said...

Cairo coming to Madison?

Hyperbolize much, Representative Whoever?

autothreads said...

Sorry, I realized that previous post may have indicated I was a teacher by saying "this teacher". I wasn't referring to myself. As I mentioned, before Althouse is actually my professor, which means I'm in Law School.

Boy, you must be very smart. I'm so impressed. But then my son who's a plumber also got a 95th percentile score on the LSAT. I bet he can do a better job analyzing a legal brief than you can do at sweating a copper pipe.

So you've got precious little real world experience, having not left the cozy confines of the classroom yet. Come back in 10 years when you've experience reality.

Of course by then you'll be probably whining about not getting paid the salary that you "deserve" because you went to law school. Funny, I've never seen a med student capitalize med school.

Roger J. said...

Ahh its ole J back with his insightful commentary--study hall is over now son? Mommy took your wii away? As foghorn leghorn would say: go away boy--ya bother me

autothreads said...

Most of the rabid anti-unionists here are most likely unemployed, blue-collar types, or ...small bidness WASPs--ie, motivated purely by resentment, and revenge (or racism).

Tell us again how you're the friend of the working man and women.

While I do own a couple of small businesses (including CarsInDepth.com, the original 3D auto enthusiast site) I'm neither Anglo, nor Saxon, nor Protestant.

But tell us again how those on the right stereotype people.

Your intense scorn for regular folks shows your elitism. I know that you think that you're somehow morally superior to people who actually work for a living.

Speaking of which, what do you do for a living?

Dose of Sanity said...

@autothreads

Please don't assume I went straight from my undergrad to law school.

I didn't.

Again, people running their mouth with no facts. Ah, the internet.

Dose of Sanity said...

Also, my point on negotiation seems a tad clairvoyant, considering I said it should have been done before the Democrats blocked quorum.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116421584.html

Notice the reasoning.

autothreads said...


Please don't assume I went straight from my undergrad to law school.

I didn't.

Again, people running their mouth with no facts. Ah, the internet.

2/17/11 4:33 PM


So please tell us what you did for a living between stints as a professional student.

ken in sc said...

When I was in college at the University of Alabama, some of my classmates were from up-north and they were amazed that we had paved roads and indoor facilities. Later on when I was in the military and visited Rantoul, Illinois, Alpena, Michigan, and Volk Field, Wisconsin, I was amazed to see that much of the north was more backward and undeveloped than the south. Therefore, this sort of thing going on in Madison is not a surprise to me.

wv-comie, no kidding