December 10, 2010

A racial incident in Milwaukee.

Involving a 100-year-old woman who was working as a Wal-Mart greeter and used the provocative epithet "you people."

249 comments:

1 – 200 of 249   Newer›   Newest»
former law student said...

I wondered what Marge Schott was up to these days.

How the mighty have fallen.

Gabriel Hanna said...

When I was much younger, and cared deeply about such things, I wasted a great deal of time trying to get my grandmother to use "people of color" instead of "colored people".

Fen said...

Marge's account rings true

Until you watch the survelliance video at the upper left corner of the link page.

Its choppy, but starting at 1:09 it looks like she fought with Walmart greeter to get her rcpt back.

I'd be curious to know how other eyes here see the video.


[..]

That said, I HATE stores that do this. I just keep walking. They don't have the authority to do this. If they want to call the polcie, fine.

MadisonMan said...

I'm impressed that a 100-yo woman has an answering machine. My 80-something parents don't.

edutcher said...

She could have meant young people.

PS Cheap Schott, fls. I don't think she qualifies as a closet Nazi.

Fen said...

Lois Speelman, kept complaining about "you people," before saying something to the effect of, "You people think you can do whatever you want. Not today."

Not her fault. She's been radicalized by black racism and violence targeting whites.

And, she has cancer, so anything she does is excused. Show some sympathy please.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

It's a racial hate crime, indeed.

An angry bitch pushes a 100-year-old white grandmother to the ground and no charges even for this assault caught on the store's security camera.

Old white people are under assault in America and black racists are not even going to be arrested, much less prosecuted for their crimes.

Eric Holder has set the stage.

It's open season on whitey.

Fen said...

Hey New, did you watch the security tape?

Coketown said...

What are those people doing enforcing security at wal-mart? Doesn't that old coot know she can break a hip rough housing with those other people?

Lincolntf said...

Criminalizing words is a necessary step in the Lefty progression. The fact that they're starting with "racial" examples just means that the political word-crime legislation is still being written.

Fen said...

Reviewing the tape again. Marge definately put her hands on her. I don't see how that can be described as incidental contact.

Football ref would have flagged her for interference.

michael farris said...

"A police report released Thursday shows Speelman made similarly racially charged comments to prosecutors while discussing the case last week.

Speelman told prosecutors that "these types of people" often become upset when she checks their receipts, the report says.

When she was asked to clarify what she meant by "these types of people," Speelman said, "Mexicans, Spanish and colored people," according to the report.

Speelman also said "these types of people" are "difficult to deal with," the report says."

Little bit of a sympathy killer.

I appreciate the idea that someone that old isn't going to chance, but it's common sense to not put them in a job where they will have to deal with 'those people'....

MadisonMan said...

Having watched the video, I'll say that I would have lost patience with that old woman as well. A little more speed please when you're checking things that I've paid for as a loyal customer.

And why is WalMart having greeters -- old people -- act as pseudo-policemen anyway? Why should a greeter have any right to detain you? If this is company policy, I think it's bad policy.

rhhardin said...

she denied making racially charged comments during the incident and said she had no racial animosity toward Metcalf, whom she said was "running off at the mouth."

It's another "whom" incident.

William said...

Post facto, at least, the customer behaved properly. I have seen black customers call out store employees for watching them too closely, and they sometimes do it in an abusive and threatening way. Perhaps they have cause for anger, but, from what I've seen, their anger was more likely to engender resentment than respect.....The old woman was perhaps prejudiced, but with the very old and the very young allowances must be made. The customer was more ageist than the greeter was racost.

Lem said...

I wondered what Marge Schott was up to these days.

lol

rdkraus said...

Perhaps they could talk this out over a couple of beers. I know someone who's good at this sort of thing ... and ... has experience.

michael farris said...

Do I smell a beer summit?

Maybe that should be a (spiked) egg nog summit given the season.

virgil xenophon said...

In the armed services the use of the terms "you people" and "your people" is QUITE common and has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with race, e.g., "move your people into the staging area," etc. Or, addressing members of one's own command: "I want you people to understand that you are absolutely forbidden to...."

michael farris said...

"Lois Speelman, kept complaining about "you people," before saying something to the effect of, "You people think you can do whatever you want. Not today.""

Note to self: If I make it to 100, don't let mouth write checks that butt can't cash.....

Fen said...

[Speelman] denied making racially charged comments during the incident and said she had no racial animosity toward Metcalf, whom she said was "running off at the mouth."

Odd because Metcalf comes across as very passive and reasonable.

Metcalf, in an interview at her lawyer's office, said -

Ah, thats why Metcalf's account of the incident sounds so reasonable. She was already coached on the narrative.

Fen said...

Nobody sees assault at 1:09 on the vid?

Fen said...

Little bit of a sympathy killer.

True, but that doesn't justify assualt.

Lem said...

I seem to remember Ross Perot coming under fire for saying "you people"..

LarsPorsena said...

"..When she was asked to clarify what she meant by "these types of people," Speelman said, "Mexicans, Spanish and colored people," according to the report.

Speelman also said "these types of people" are "difficult to deal with," the report says."

Little bit of a sympathy killer. "

Really? Want to guess about what percentage "These types of people" make up shoplifters"?

You must like the TSA strip searching white grannies just to be PC.

Paul said...

Aw comeone guys... people call me 'hey you' all the time. Now is that racial?

michael farris said...

"Nobody sees assault at 1:09 on the vid?"

Had that happened unprovoked, yeah.

On the other hand, it's clear that Marge initiated the aggressive physical contact at about 0.14
Running after and grabbing a customer by the arm and then proceding to check every item in a large cart at a glacial pace with no clear motivation is pretty intrusive and I wouldn't put up with it. If you have grounds for suspicion call the police otherwise stay out of my face.

How many random daily little humiliations are Americans willing to put up with?

wv: gillying, what they used to call shoplifting when Marge was a teenager.

Ann Althouse said...

"Nobody sees assault at 1:09 on the vid?"

The customer was detained for a long time and treated as if she were under suspicion. Why? We can't hear what is being said, but at the crucial point, the customer grabs at the receipt, and I think the greeter struggles to keep it. Both women lose their footing, but the older woman goes down.

I blame Wal-Mart.

Seriously.

michael farris said...

"You must like the TSA strip searching white grannies just to be PC."

No I musn't.

The store policy is clearly intrusive. Again, if there's clear grounds for suspicion call security and/or the police. Otherwise stay out of my personal space.

Pogo said...

I see a struggle in the video. The young woman knocked her over, intentional or not, then left a 100 yr old lying on the ground.

Race got nothin' to do with it.

This is about character, which the young woman lacks.

michael farris said...

"I blame Wal-Mart.
Seriously."

So do I.

Ann Althouse said...

"In the armed services the use of the terms "you people" and "your people" is QUITE common and has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with race, e.g., "move your people into the staging area," etc. Or, addressing members of one's own command: "I want you people to understand that you are absolutely forbidden to....""

Yeah, but if "you people" is said *to one person* it can't have that meaning. In this case, the woman is being referred to in relations to a stereotype of a particular group. If you are the face of the corporation, talking to a customer, you need to have some sense about what the customer might think, even if the customer misunderstands. Don't say "you people" to a black person. What's the point of saying "people like you" to any individual in a customer/merchant situation?

former law student said...

This is about character, which the young woman lacks.

It takes a lot of character to help someone who's prejudiced against you and falsely accused you of a crime. Maybe one in 20 could do it.

Ann Althouse said...

This is reminding me a little of the Elizabeth Edwards discussion we were having the other day. We feel sympathetic to people with incurable cancer and people who are 100 years old. We treat them with special respect. But they shouldn't be using our special respect to manipulate and abuse us.

If a 100-year-old woman isn't able to handle the greeter job properly, Wal-Mart should not put her in that position. She was doing weirdly invasive security. I don't even think that should be called a "greeter." It's a corporate choice to use a certain type of person as a security worker, and the idea must be something like: Customers will be docile and compliant and feel a sense of shame about shoplifting if grandmother is watching. The customer really could say "Fuck you, grandma," but won't. We see the initial submission. The very old woman is inherently disarming. But then she turns into an exasperating snoop. When are you allowed to take your receipt and leave? Oh, but if you grab your receipt, grandmother might topple over, especially if grandmother is gripping that receipt for dear life. That was supposed to inspire endless compliance from the customer. I blame Wal-Mart for structuring its business that way.

michael farris said...

"This is about character, which the young woman lacks."

In that context if were Metcalf I don't know if I would help either. A person already hostile to me might misunderstand and/or resist my efforts to help her up and make the situation worse.

LarsPorsena said...

"...Running after and grabbing a customer by the arm and then proceding to check every item in a large cart at a glacial pace with no clear motivation is pretty intrusive and I wouldn't put up with it.."

glacial pace? How fast do you think she should be moving?

No clear motivation? Base on what?

I wouldn't put up with it. Probably not form a little old lady but given a 6'4" 265 lbs male in his prime and all we'd hear out of your mouth is "Yes, sir. Yes, sir."

Pogo said...

Yes, it's a stupid WalMart policy.

But you can go a 100 years in life without knocking over an old lady doing her stupid job.

And if you do, by accident, make a centenarian go arse over tip, have the simple kindness to pick her up.

Ann Althouse said...

"I see a struggle in the video. The young woman knocked her over, intentional or not, then left a 100 yr old lying on the ground."

The failure to help her is the real offense. I note that several other people fail to help her though. Something is seriously dysfunctional there.

Sigivald said...

I say "you people" all the time.

I just don't use it to refer to a racially-defined group.

("You people are @%^@# idiots", for instance.

Or "Where do you people learn to drive?")

garage mahal said...

Speelman is 100 yrs old, fortunate to live so many years, better than most human beings. She has a husband with a big cock. No sympathy here.

Ann Althouse said...

"You must like the TSA strip searching white grannies just to be PC."

No, it's more like the TSA hiring white grannies so that we customers will submit when the hands go down our pants. And we won't speak up about the failure to change the gloves that have already felt up the genitalia of other customers. It would be mean to affront grandma.

MadisonMan said...

Similar to Beth's question about Alaska, I should ask: How many commenters shop at Wal Mart?

I do not, and this video does nothing to make me want to. Plus You have to navigate poorly designed intersections to get to the WalMart on the West Side of Madison. No thanks.

michael farris said...

"No clear motivation? Base on what?"

If there was motivation I think the "6'4" 265 lbs male in his prime" would have been sent. This was either a customer randomly selected to be humiliated by Wal-Mart and/or profiled as one of 'those people' by Marge.

How many random personal checks are you willing to put up with?

Me, being me, would probably be more or less polite to Marge during the check but if I weren't in a hurry I'd go back and complain and return everything I'd bought.

DaveW said...

I blame Wal-Mart.

Yep. Poor training (or task assignment).

I used to know a 22 year old (white) girl that shop-lifted from Walmart. What she did was grab a bunch of bags when she bought something, then carry them back in her purse. She'd run around and collect a bunch of stuff, then try to bag it on the sly and walk out with it. Of course she got caught eventually.

What Walmart and other stores are doing here is trying to deter theft. The amount of shop-lifting that goes on in a place like Walmart is enormous and it affects the cost of goods we all buy.

ricpic said...

Maybe "you people" relates to the fact that blacks shoplift at stratospheric rates. Nah, has to be racisss.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

If a 100-year-old woman isn't able to handle the greeter job properly, Wal-Mart should not put her in that position. She was doing weirdly invasive security. I don't even think that should be called a "greeter."

Exactly. To my mind a greeter at WalMart is one who greets. "Hello, welcome to WalMart. We are having a special on yada yada. The pharmacy is over there. etc" Helpful directions and trying to give the customers some guidance.

NOT being a policewoman or store cop.

WalMart, or more precisely, the Store Manager at that location, made a bad decision here.

LarsPorsena said...

"No, it's more like the TSA hiring white grannies so that we customers will submit when the hands go down our pants. And we won't speak up about the failure to change the gloves that have already felt up the genitalia of other customers. It would be mean to affront grandma."

That's a wee bit strained for you AA.

Hagar said...

The Walmart exit checkers I have seen, greet the customers with a smile as they are approaching the exit and sometimes ask to see the receipt and give the basket a cursory once over. I do not know if this is random or based on every so many customers, or whatever, but I am certain that Walmart policy does not include running out of the store after the customer and subjecting them to the kind of treatment Ms. Speelman gave this customer.

michael farris said...

"Maybe "you people" relates to the fact that blacks shoplift at stratospheric rates. Nah, has to be racisss."

You people are always saying that. What is it with you people anyway?

Fen said...

Ann: The customer was detained for a long time and treated as if she were under suspicion. Why?

You've never enountered this? Its common in Maryland. You're the only one in the store, you run your groceries through the checkout line, the cashier bags everything and gives you a receipt, you push your cart to the door and..

some obnoxious person is at the store exit to make sure your receipt matches up with your cart. Even though you haven't triggered any alarms.

Its the most annoying practice. And I wonder if its to check the cashiers for theft-rings, not the customers. I never stop for these people. And I actually enjoy their impotent protests as a wheel the cart to my car.

We can't hear what is being said, but at the crucial point, the customer grabs at the receipt, and I think the greeter struggles to keep it. Both women lose their footing, but the older woman goes down.

Do you not see Metcalf put her right hand on Speelman and push her away at 1:11? I think thats why Spellman went down.

I blame Wal-Mart. Seriously.

Me too. I think its a stupid and insulting practice. But, based on the vid, I no longer believe Metcalf's account of what happened.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Similar to Beth's question about Alaska, I should ask: How many commenters shop at Wal Mart?

I do on occasion. They have a very nice, new clean super store in the nearest large town.

Things we especially buy:

White Stag brand casual clothing. Tee shirts for $4 !! Knee high socks. Really good deals on stuff that I'm going to wear out in the yard and get all stained up anyway. Underwear, bras. All good name brands.

Hubby's work boots. He is going to ruin them in short order so why not buy the $25 pair instead of the $150 RedWing boots. Underwear. Work socks

Office supplies.

Bandaids etc.

BIRD FOOD. The best prices especially on the black thistle seeds for the finches.

WalMart is a great great place to buy basic everyday items at lower prices.

If people are to snobby to shop there...they are only hurting themselves.

rdkraus said...

Nothing wrong with the policy, it's the execution. I've seen this in other stores, especially electronic stores, Guitar Center and others where it's easy to shoplift.

The key is to have a friendly person ask to see your reciept as part a routine. It's generally no big deal at all. In fact, it's no deal - stores need to have reasonable security.


The problem here is the manner in which this old lady was addressing a CUSTOMER. Man, that is bad PR no matter how you look at it. You want security, but you also want your employees to treat customers in a certain way. "You people" is not that way. Even if there was no "incident" here, why would this young woman want to come back to shop where they refer to her that way.

Fen said...

but I am certain that Walmart policy does not include running out of the store after the customer and subjecting them to the kind of treatment Ms. Speelman gave this customer.

Actually its very common for them to run out after you.

You can have fun with it like I do, and maybe the stupid stores will change their policy.

Ankur said...

Its hard for me to tell from the video whether her falling over was accidental or not. A person of character would have helped her up, however.

To me, the more salient point, from a social perspective is this: we are using current societal norms to judge someone who was born in 1911, and was an adult in 1929. Yes, people can change, but can anyone deny the overwhelming effect your formative years have on you? Her formative years were at a time when language like what was commonplace and casual and not considered offensive (even though it IS offensive).

Note that I am not trying to excuse racism here. I am only trying to find a reason why it might not have been as vicious (in her mind) as it would seem to a casual observer. If this were a 30 something person - or even a 60-something person - there really would have been no excuse.

k*thy said...

If this is company policy, I think it's bad policy.

Not only that, but incident is bad pr.

Mostly, miscommunication across the board - maybe though something good will come out of it. I'm talking to you, Walmart...

Lem said...

Crack says "you people"...

I know he doesn't mean any malice.. as Trooper would say..

"Not that there is anything wrong with that".

michael farris said...

"Even if there was no "incident" here, why would this young woman want to come back to shop where they refer to her that way."

They probably don't. According to ricpic she's probably a shoplifter...

chickelit said...

I see an old woman checking the younger woman's receipt against the contents. This happens routinly at CostCo to everyone. A scuffle ensues--the younger woman knocks the older woman to the ground.

Why did the older woman profile the younger woman?

Why did the younger woman just waltz away from the scene after knocking the older woman down?

I see no fault on WalMart's part. WalMart provided the survelliance footage. They are the omniscient eye as it were.

I detect pent-up resentment against WalMart here, especially from the Whole Foods types.
______________

Let's pit WalMart against Whole Foods as who does more damage to American society.

Full disclosure: I shop at neither.

donttread2010 said...

While I agree it appears that the older woman went a bit beyond just checking for a receipt/matching items, it also appears that she was pushed backwards by the woman when she went to grab the receipt back. Pretty bad when its okay to roll a 'trash-talking' old lady. Ever hear 'certain people' talk to each other before? They drop MF's like gum wrappers without batting an eye. 'Marge' should be up on assault charges, period. If someone MF's me, I may want to flatten their nose, but I also know I'll go to jail regardless of what they said to provoke.

Titus said...

I'll admit it...I have never been to Walmart but I do love Target.

I also just pinched a loaf and when I looked at the bowl it looked like a cauldron of snakes making love.

Titus said...

Milwaukee is not fab at all.

Fen said...

It takes a lot of character to help someone who's falsely accused you of a crime.

She wasn't accused of a crime.

In that context if were Metcalf I don't know if I would help either. A person already hostile to me might misunderstand and/or resist my efforts to help her up and make the situation worse.

"Are you okay?" and "Can we have some help over here!" are not provocative actions.

Triangle Man said...

Instead of "you people" she should have just said what she meant.

Trooper York said...

When ever they check my cart in Home Depot or Lowes in Brooklyn it is always by a black or Hispanic worker. I always say the same thing:

"Hey you aren't supposed to check the white people."

Always gets a laugh.

Fen said...

LOL Trooper! I have to have my wife try that one.

Lem said...

What do you mean "you people"?

former law student said...

I see an old woman checking the younger woman's receipt against the contents. This happens routinly at CostCo to everyone.

Costco members pay something like $50 a year for the privilege of being subjected to this abuse. It is a membership club, not a store like Walmart.

vw: brithboy He's the Reason for the Season!

Quaestor said...

former law student wrote: It takes a lot of character to help someone who's prejudiced against you and falsely accused you of a crime. Maybe one in 20 could do it.

One in twenty of the crowd you run with, eh?

rhhardin said...

There are other jobs than greeter.

She could be a hugger.

LarsPorsena said...

"Let's pit WalMart against Whole Foods as who does more damage to American society.

Full disclosure: I shop at neither."

Full disclosure: I shop at both.

k*thy said...

The failure to help her is the real offense.

Agreed, but at the height of anger, walking away might be a good option. She coulda done better, but she coulda done a whole lot worse. Regardless, she sounds contrite. I'd accept her amends.

Quaestor said...

Gabriel Hanna I wasted a great deal of time trying to get my grandmother to use "people of color" instead of "colored people"

If the NAACP hasn't bothered to adopt the Acceptable Euphemism of the Week why should your Nanna?

Revenant said...

No, it's more like the TSA hiring white grannies so that we customers will submit when the hands go down our pants.

I think that's exactly it.

Most people defer to the elderly and treat them respectfully. When you want customers to submit to a security check that the store doesn't actually have a legal right to force on you, using people we're naturally deferential to for the job makes sense.

Trooper York said...

I have a lot of jewerly all over the store. So what I say to my black customers right out is "Hey I follow everybody not just the black people."

They always laugh at that.

You know who are the worst?

The fuckin Russians. I caught them stealing twice already. Fuckin commie fucks.

Sofa King said...

Okay. I like Walmart a lot. And I shop at a Walmart frequently - (incidentally, at this predominantly-black Walmart, the usually-black checkers have never once asked to check me, a decently-dressed white man, so I definitely believe profiling is going on) - but I side with the customer here. Legally, I don't believe the greeter has any claim at all on that receipt. It is the customer's personal property, and once consent is withdrawn it must be given back, and the customer is entitled to use a reasonable amount of force to prevent unlawful interference with their property, which would include, in my opinion, the snatching back of the receipt.

Of course, as with the police, the best idea is not to consent in the first place. "Can I see your receipt please?" "No, thank you."

former law student said...

She wasn't accused of a crime.

The Walmart employee ran out of the store after the customer and grabbed her. Now, why would she do that?

Ann Althouse said...

I've watched the scuffle portion 3 more times, and I don't see that the customer shoved the greeter. I see the customer grabbing the receipt and the greeter holding on. Then I see hard to decipher frames of video in which hands go back and forth and the old woman's hand appears to be part of a back-and-forth struggle (presumably for the receipt). Then the old woman falls. I don't see the customer just hitting or shoving the old woman.

Sofa King said...

I should add, I believe that the customer did not mean to knock the old lady over, and that it was accidental (this is supported by the way the old lady tried to play "keep away" with the receipt.)

chickelit said...

FLS said:
Costco members pay something like $50 a year for the privilege of being subjected to this abuse. It is a membership club, not a store like Walmart.

Put you're the same guy who takes offence at being asked for ID when voting--why?

(sorry I can't get to Althouse comment link, but I could)

donttread2010 said...

@Fls

"Costco members pay something like $50 a year for the privilege of being subjected to this abuse. It is a membership club, not a store like Walmart."

B-Jay's Wholesale Club also charges about $50 for the same...you can't leave the store without some lackey performing a cursory 'check' of your receipt/cart contents. It really is a joke. Thats why I don't shop at these types of places. As far as Walmart is concerned, it has gotten so low-brow that I avoid this knuckle-draggers' haunt like the Plague...

Fen said...

Regardless, she sounds contrite. I'd accept her amends.

Of course she sounds contrite, she just got out of jail and is sitting in her attorney's office after being coached for interview.

Also, there's a diff between not physically helping and fleeing the scene.

Lem said...

Imagine all the saving we could have at Walmart if they got rid of instant replay.

I hate instant replay.

If there was no video this "incident" would not make news.

Fen said...

She wasn't accused of a crime.

FLS: The Walmart employee ran out of the store after the customer and grabbed her. Now, why would she do that?

Stores like Walmart do this. They will check you even if you've done nothing suspicious.

Although the police statement says Speelman singled her out because she had unbagged merchandise in her cart.

LarsPorsena said...

"She wasn't accused of a crime.

The Walmart employee ran out of the store after the customer and grabbed her. Now, why would she do that?"

Because she is obviously a white tag-bagging jackbooted racist thug. There can't be any other reason.

former law student said...

Put you're the same guy who takes offence at being asked for ID when voting--why?

The right to shop at Costco was not why my elders fought the Japs and Nazis.

Revenant said...

Do you not see Metcalf put her right hand on Speelman and push her away at 1:11? I think thats why Spellman went down.

The frame rate isn't good enough to determine if Metcalf pushed Spellman away or if Metcalf just shoved past her.

What's interesting to me is Spellman touching (grabbing?) Metcalf's shoulder to stop her. If she followed that up with a racist remark -- and apparently she did -- then I don't blame Metcalf for not helping her up. It would take quite a bit of chutzpah for Spellman to expect to be helped up by her, for that matter.

Fen said...

I've watched the scuffle portion 3 more times, and I don't see that the customer shoved the greeter. I see the customer grabbing the receipt and the greeter holding on.

I see the customer place her right hand on the greeter and shove, at 1:10. But the vid is really to choppy for me to be certain.

Revenant said...

The right to shop at Costco was not why my elders fought the Japs and Nazis.

When your elders fought the "Japs and Nazis", ID requirements, tests, poll taxes, and other requirements for voting were common in the United States.

The notion that they fought WW2 for the sake of unsecure voting doesn't pass a laugh test.

LarsPorsena said...

"Put you're the same guy who takes offence at being asked for ID when voting--why?

The right to shop at Costco was not why my elders fought the Japs and Nazis."

Yes. It was so anyone from any where can vote as many times as they want in any election. Noble forefathers.

chickelit said...

The right to shop at Costco was not why my elders fought the Japs and Nazis.

My Dad helped defend Europe against the Commies during the Cold War. He also loved WalMart.

What's your point again?

Revenant said...

Because she is obviously a white tag-bagging jackbooted racist thug. There can't be any other reason.

Well, she is indisputably white and racist. She thinks she can grab customers and force them to submit to a bag check, so "thug" applies.

I don't see jackboots, though. So she's got that going for her.

former law student said...

ID requirements, tests, poll taxes, and other requirements for voting were common in the United States.

Were they? But I assure you my forebears are 100% white.

Revenant said...

Were they? But I assure you my forebears are 100% white.

And the relevance of your race is...?

LarsPorsena said...

" Fen said...

I've watched the scuffle portion 3 more times, and I don't see that the customer shoved the greeter. I see the customer grabbing the receipt and the greeter holding on.

I see the customer place her right hand on the greeter and shove, at 1:10. But the vid is really to choppy for me to be certain."

I watch the reality crime show "The First 48" which deals with homicides. There is frequent use of videos as a source of potential leads in the crime. I'm gobsmacked at the poor quality and resolution of the videos. Just as the video that is the subject of this thread the quality is so poor it doesn't really clarify anything.

Alex Ignatiev said...

Maybe 'you people' refers to people young enough to be her grandchildren? My grandmother refers to the youth of America this way.

Triangle Man said...

@Alex Ignatiev

My point exactly.

rdkraus said...

B-Jay's Wholesale Club also charges about $50 for the same...you can't leave the store without some lackey performing a cursory 'check' of your receipt/cart contents. It really is a joke. Thats why I don't shop at these types of places.

Why would you take this personally? These stores lose millions of dollars a year to shoplifters and inside theft. It is reasonable for them to take reasonable measures for security.

If you have not stolen anything, then this is just a routine check (which takes a second) which they feel they need to do because ... again ... they lose millions of dollars every year to theft.

Overreaction to this is just one more way so many people are "looking" for some reason to be insulted all day every day. As I said above, if you really are insulted, that's different.

Revenant said...

Maybe 'you people' refers to people young enough to be her grandchildren?

From the article:

Speelman told prosecutors that "these types of people" often become upset when she checks their receipts, the report says. When she was asked to clarify what she meant by "these types of people," Speelman said, "Mexicans, Spanish and colored people,"

former law student said...

My elders voted without being subject to "ID requirements, tests, poll taxes, [or] other requirements for voting."

Triangle Man said...

@Revenant

I stand corrected.

LarsPorsena said...

"My elders voted without being subject to "ID requirements, tests, poll taxes, [or] other requirements for voting."

And being civic minded I bet they voted early and voted often.

donttread2010 said...

@ Alex Ignatiev

"Maybe 'you people' refers to people young enough to be her grandchildren? My grandmother refers to the youth of America this way."

I was waiting for this - could it be just another pedestrian case of someone looking to be offended?

I'm not so sure. That old lady made double time chasing the shopper out of the store. I certainly would have been annoyed. What I usually do in those instances is use humor to try and break some ice.

I'm not sure I would have bolted though after the old lady went ass over teakettle.

Remember, this is a store that people 1. camp out overnight on Black Friday and other ridiculous shopping days and 2. where cameras are rolling when the doors open so we can witness people trampling each other to be the first to grab 1 of 5 toaster ovens on sale.

Should anyone be surprised at this?

Ridiculous.

Triangle Man said...

And being civic minded I bet they voted early and voted often.

If they lived in Chicago, they could still be voting.

cokaygne said...

Walmart should fire her and institute a policy of having only trained security people randomly check receipts. If you are going to give an employee that much authority, she should be accountable for her actions, no matter what her age or sex or race. And of course the employer is ultimately responsible, or should be, for the actions of an employee carrying out company policy on company property.

I'm not a lawyer but it seems like Metcalfe has grounds for a lucrative settlement from Walmart.

What really bothers me is that whatever happens the only winners will be the greedy shysters representing all parties. Does it not bother any of you great legal minds that this 100-year old woman who has been knocked to the ground has had to lawyer up.

Greedy bastards!

former law student said...

If you have not stolen anything, then this is just a routine check (which takes a second)

Did you not see her cart packed with bags of goods? A meaningful check would have taken twenty minutes.

If I were the shopper, I would sue for assault, because the greeter grabbed her, and false imprisonment, because the greeter would not let her go in a reasonable time, and kept her receipt -- the sole evidence of her payment -- to keep her from leaving. Let Walmart explain their door procedures in court.

donttread2010 said...

@rdkraus

"Why would you take this personally? These stores lose millions of dollars a year to shoplifters and inside theft. It is reasonable for them to take reasonable measures for security.

If you have not stolen anything, then this is just a routine check (which takes a second) which they feel they need to do because ... again ... they lose millions of dollars every year to theft.

Overreaction to this is just one more way so many people are "looking" for some reason to be insulted all day every day. As I said above, if you really are insulted, that's different."

I don't take it personally, I just take my shopping dollars elsewhere to avoid a ridiculous 'faux' inspection. If they really accounted for everything in your cart, traffic jams to leave the store would result. Solution: put the checkout counters near the front door.

I do agree as I state in another post that this may have been a case of looking to be offended but the old lady dragged the shopper back in the store.

Revenant said...

These stores lose millions of dollars a year to shoplifters and inside theft. It is reasonable for them to take reasonable measures for security.

With all due respect, the money they lose to shoplifters isn't my problem. I'm responsible for $0 of that theft.

Certainly they have an incentive to do this, and I usually comply because that's easier and I just want to get out of the store and go the heck home. But I have absolutely no reason to be pleased they do it.

It also doesn't seem like a useful way of preventing shoplifting. In an electronics store where customers exits with a handful of relatively expensive items, sure. But look at that video -- Metcalf has a full shopping cart. If she was trying to steal stuff she easily could, just by hiding it inside the bags under the stuff she DID pay for.

William said...

On behalf of WalMart, I would say that minimum wage employees sometimes lack judgement. Youngsters are impulsive, and geezers are cranky. Solomon doesn't work for minimum wage....If white people should be aware of the sensitivities of blacks, blacks should be tolerant of the pace of the old. "As a I am, you will be; as you are I once was." Nobody looks very good in this incident, but the customer looks worse.

donttread2010 said...

@Fls

"Did you not see her cart packed with bags of goods? A meaningful check would have taken twenty minutes."

Exactly. So why do they do it anyways? Ridiculous.

Revenant said...

My elders voted without being subject to "ID requirements, tests, poll taxes, [or] other requirements for voting."

So they lived in one of the states that didn't have those sorts of requirements, then. That still doesn't explain why you think their race was relevant. I'm guessing you believe only non-whites were affected by those laws.

Anyway, the point is that they fought for an America that allowed ID checks, poll taxes, etc. Ergo your whole "they didn't fight for blah blah blah" schtick is silly -- objectively speaking, they DID fight for those things.

rdkraus said...

cokaygne

What really bothers me is that whatever happens the only winners will be the greedy shysters representing all parties. Does it not bother any of you great legal minds that this 100-year old woman who has been knocked to the ground has had to lawyer up.

Greedy bastards!


I love this too !!!

Two people get into a physical altercation involving racial profiling and offensive comments, but ...

IT"S THOSE F******G LAWYERS.
G*******N THEM.

She had to lawyer up. Well duh, she's making racially offensive comments to customers. Wow, that too must be THE F*****G lawyers fault.

LOL.

Are you Trooper's Mommy?

It could be genetic.

traditionalguy said...

You People out there just found out that receipt checkers profile for likely shop lifters. That is their job. They also look at the "Number of Items" printed at the bottom of the receipt and then the employee quick scans for the number of items in the buggy. The extra procedures are supposed to start when there is an obvious difference. There is no item by item check done until then. This old lady was too mentally slow to be doing this delicate work. But it is hard for Walmart to find honest younger folks who are potentially smart enough to form inside-outside rings of shoplifters. We ain't China.

LarsPorsena said...

"These stores lose millions of dollars a year to shoplifters and inside theft. It is reasonable for them to take reasonable measures for security.

With all due respect, the money they lose to shoplifters isn't my problem. I'm responsible for $0 of that theft."

You're Zero percent responsible for aircraft hijackings but you'll be bending over and grabbing your ankles at the airport the next time you fly.

William said...

Also, if you're profiling shoplifters, leaving the store in high dudgeon and brushing past security, while not proof of guilt, is not an affirmation of innocence.

traditionalguy said...

If we cannot give a pass to older folks for a little good old fashioned hate speech, then we are too sensitive to live anyway. It's not like she was a Blogger.

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Quaestor:

If the NAACP hasn't bothered to adopt the Acceptable Euphemism of the Week why should your Nanna?

I understand this NOW better than I did at seventeen. When I was seventeen I took the distinction between "people of color" and "colored people" very seriously indeed. And of course I knew better than my grandmother, and all other adults, when I was seventeen. But I must getting dumber as I get older, because I find myself agreeing with them much more often, on a lot of things.

Sofa King said...

William, so what? In most cases, the only reason they can do the check in the first place is because people consent to it. (Walmart probably would have a legal right to stop and retrieve merchandise that they had an actual reasonable belief was being stolen, but I kind of doubt that a combination of racial profiling and indiscriminate policy is going to qualify as a reasonable belief.)

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Revenant:

Can I offer you the same advice you offered me yesterday? It goes double for people who have no compunction about inventing facts.

pauls lane said...

When the aged and/or infirmed 'greeter' at the local Wal_Mart asks me to show a receipt for my purchases as I am leaving the store, do you know what I do?
Well do ya?! First you all should know that I am a white male 56 year old person. That should give you a hint.
I meekly show my receipt.

donttread2010 said...

@traditionalguy

"You People out there just found out that receipt checkers profile for likely shop lifters. That is their job. They also look at the "Number of Items" printed at the bottom of the receipt and then the employee quick scans for the number of items in the buggy. The extra procedures are supposed to start when there is an obvious difference. There is no item by item check done until then. This old lady was too mentally slow to be doing this delicate work. But it is hard for Walmart to find honest younger folks who are potentially smart enough to form inside-outside rings of shoplifters."

So design the store so this type of activity is unnecessary. The checkout area should lead directly out the door. The longer it takes to exit the store after checking out, the more opportunity there is for all kinds of mischief, both by exiting customers and employees alike.

former law student said...

I note that several other people fail to help her though. Something is seriously dysfunctional there.

I've been thinking about this. As I see the video, soon after she falls, a hooded figure comes out of the store, stops, and then goes back in, returning with more people. This would be consistent with

1. Hooded guy offering to help pick her up.

2. Greeter saying, No thanks, but please get my supervisor (or equivalent).

3. Hooded guy returning with supervisor (or equivalent.)

former law student said...

But it is hard for Walmart to find honest younger folks who are potentially smart enough to form inside-outside rings of shoplifters.

I know Fry's Electronics worries about collusion between customer and employee, and goes beyond the item count to make sure that the HD screen is not rung up as a box of CD blanks.

Jennifer said...

I see the same thing, fls. She's gesturing toward the lady and saying something to him, which I thought might be explaining what happened and asking for a co-worker.

Either that, or it kind of looked like she might be telling the hooded guy to run after the lady.

The video is so bad, it's so hard to tell what happened. It looks like many people go over to her and try to help.

Revenant said...

You People out there just found out that receipt checkers profile for likely shop lifters. That is their job.

Profiling for likely shoplifters is one thing. Racist comments to the people you've profiled are something else entirely.

If the TSA decided to focus some extra attention on passengers who appeared Arabic, that would be sensible. If they started saying "step into the body scanner, raghead" I'd ask that they be sacked.

Jennifer said...

So did the woman in question, pauls lane. And stood there for over a minute, apparently enduring a bunch of "you people" talk and accusations that she hadn't paid for things that were printed right there on the receipt.

Fen said...

Speelman told prosecutors that "these types of people" often become upset when she checks their receipts, the report says. When she was asked to clarify what she meant by "these types of people," Speelman said, "Mexicans, Spanish and colored people,"

I'm not convinced she's a racist.

Her experience working at Walmart: its always minorities that give her trouble.

My experience shopping at Walmart: its always minorities I see cops arresting for shoplifting.

Gabriel Hanna said...

I put myself through college working as (among other things) a cashier at a grocery store and shoplifting was always a problem.

But, in a grocery store, a hell of a lot of the stealing is done by employees. This was a college town and may not be representative.

I think what happened in this case is that a very old woman, with the corresponding prejudices, decided to be extra officious. The Walmarts in my area do not check receipts, so it's not not a nationwide policy to do so (or some store managers choose to ignore it). I can't believe that it is a national policy to grab customers' receipts and chase them out the door. I think this has much more to do with the employee's poor judgement, likely due to her very advanced age.

garage mahal said...

My experience shopping at Walmart: its always minorities I see cops arresting for shoplifting.?

Listening to conservatives bellyache these past two years I'd have thought white males are the minority. I doubt that's what you meant though, for they can never do wrong...

donttread2010 said...

If a person (a non-Eskimo) asks an Eskimo if they enjoy eating whale blubber, does that make them a racist?

Or just curious?

Fernandinande said...

When she was asked to clarify what she meant by "these types of people," Speelman said, "Mexicans, Spanish and colored people," according to the report.

To the critical, what should she have done? Should she be honest or should she be PC? She's from a time when people suppressed thoughts and ideas about different subjects.

Trooper York said...

As someone who a retail store, I will tell you who steals or trys to steal the most.

Young girls.

Girls between nine and fourteen are always trying to lift stuff. I have a rule that one is in the store the staff always has to be right in their face. Profiling. It's All American bitch.

Fen said...

I think what happened in this case is that a very old woman, with the corresponding prejudices,

or experience with minorites

decided to be extra officious.

The police statement says she singled the shopper out because she had unbagged merchandise in her cart.

I can't believe that it is a national policy to grab customers' receipts and chase them out the door.

Reverse that - "follow them out and ask for their receipt" (I didn't see her "grab" the rcpt out of customer's hand)

I think this has much more to do with the employee's poor judgement, likely due to her very advanced age.

I was joking upthread at 11:52. But her poor judgement could just as easily be due to her experience dealing with minorities at Walmart. Prob was the last straw, esp since the customer was giving her lip.

traditionalguy said...

@ Dontread 2010...I agree. But this system seems to meet the real needs well, unless a slow minded and unfriendly checker is employed. But that seems to be a rare exception. The racial hostility is the wild card here. Unless she has done it before, then there is no Walmart liability for negligent retention. Clearly it is not in the scope and course of her employment to verbally disrespect customers...but a good trial lawyer will get a jury to award damages anyhow. I still want to find out how CVS did on the choke hold murder of a shoplifter of a toothbrush.

Fen said...

Libtard: Listening to conservatives bellyache these past two years I'd have thought white males are the minority. I doubt that's what you meant though -

Why? Because I'm not white?

Why oh why does Irony hate you so much, Garage?

Fen said...

/edit

I think what happened in this case is that a very old woman, with the corresponding prejudices,

or bad experience with minorites

traditionalguy said...

Sorry...you are "dont tred' instead of "dont read". I just insulted you by accident due to my old, slow brain.

deborah said...

"I blame Wal-Mart.

Seriously."

Good point. The greeters in general are elderly or handicapped or mentally challenged. What is the message from Wal-mart? Really, what is the message, what is the point?

deborah said...

michael farris:
"Me, being me, would probably be more or less polite to Marge during the check but if I weren't in a hurry I'd go back and complain and return everything I'd bought."

Genius. Nothing would stop inordinate receipt-checking faster.

jamboree said...

My mom says "you people" when calling up businesses to discuss their work. (When will "you people" come and fix the roof as "you people" said you would? )

I keep telling her it sounds really rude and divisive and will subtly turn them against her especially if there is a problem, but she just doesn't accept that and continues to use it.

This has nothing to do with racial anything.

donttread2010 said...

@traditionalguy

"Sorry...you are "dont tred' instead of "dont read". I just insulted you by accident due to my old, slow brain."

Laughing...not insulted. Accuse me of being a Yankees fan, them's fightin' words :)

Fen said...

If the NAACP hasn't bothered to adopt the Acceptable Euphemism of the Week why should your Nanna?

Good point. She might not be up to speed on which to use these days - negroes, blacks, african-americans. What was once PC is now taken as a slur. Esp by those with a racial chip on her shoulder.

And didn't we just change from Hispanic to Latino? I have trouble keeping up with the latest PCBS.

And I can't believe this thread has gone 140+

Big Mike said...

Good one, Mr. Farris.

Maguro said...

In Pittsburgh we say "Yinz guys". It's much more ecumenical.

LarsPorsena said...

"Good point. The greeters in general are elderly or handicapped or mentally challenged. What is the message from Wal-mart? Really, what is the message, what is the point?"

Yes, these people should be at the dog track, in rest homes, at the park feeding pigeons, playing bingo, etc.

LarsPorsena said...

"In Pittsburgh we say "Yinz guys". It's much more ecumenical."

Yinz made me homesick.

dbp said...

Really, the only way to ascertain if such a full-cart was fully paid-for would be to bring it back into the store and re-scan everything. It is not reasonable to expect a customer to patiently accept this. Standing around a cold sidewalk while an old lady pointlessly pokes-around, with no end in sight, would be exasperating.

If I were a retail manager, I would encourage cooperation by giving customers an incentive. Here is the script, "You have been selected randomly for a test of our checker's accuracy. To compensate for your lost time, we will give you a $10 gift card."

Mikio said...

From the news article:

"I was insulted and slightly offended by the statements that she was making because I took them to be racially motivated," Metcalf said

Well, whaddya know?! Blacks imagining racism yet again that isn't there! And liberal PC fuels the delusion which just goes to show it’s Libtards who are the true racists!

When she was asked to clarify what she meant by "these types of people," Speelman said, "Mexicans, Spanish and colored people," according to the report.

… (pause, gears turning, cognitive dissonance dealt with by shredding incoming fact that doesn't fit worldview... ready, aim, fire!)… Al Sharpton! Sen. KKK Byrd! Jesse Jackson! Bwaaaaakk!

Revenant said...

I'm not convinced she's a racist.

There's a surprise.

Her experience working at Walmart: its always minorities that give her trouble. My experience shopping at Walmart: its always minorities I see cops arresting for shoplifting.

Uh huh. So she's not racist; it is just that "its always minorities that give her trouble" (they're "always" the ones who shoplift, you know). She "has experience with minorities", and sometimes she loses her temper when they "give her lip".

Did I get it right? That's the hill you've chosen to die on in this particular fight?

virgil xenophon said...

Late coming back in here, but I wonder if the checkers at Walmart and COSTCO (we frequent both--both in New Orleans and in the Marina del Rey/Venice/Santa Monica/Culver City area--and have found everyone unfailingly polite) are there mainly for ins purposes as their "checks" are mostly cursory at best.

deborah said...

Now, Lars, dig deeper. Try.

Methadras said...

I've fallen and I can't get up... because of you people...

deborah said...

Fen:
"Its the most annoying practice. And I wonder if its to check the cashiers for theft-rings, not the customers. I never stop for these people. And I actually enjoy their impotent protests as a wheel the cart to my car."

The first is a good point, the second a great idea. I think I'll add it to my bucket list. Walk past the exit checker like you don't hear him/her.

Fen said...

Recenant: Uh huh. So she's not racist

I don't see how this proves she is.

it is just that "its always minorities that give her trouble" (they're "always" the ones who shoplift, you know). She "has experience with minorities", and sometimes she loses her temper when they "give her lip".

Well Rev, if you worked at Walmart

and it was only Muslims blowing things up

and only Muslims being arrested for blowing things up

you might also respond with "you people"

Does that make you a racist too?

Revenant said...

Really, the only way to ascertain if such a full-cart was fully paid-for would be to bring it back into the store and re-scan everything. It is not reasonable to expect a customer to patiently accept this.

Not only is it unreasonable, the store has no actual right to ask for it. Once you've bought something from a store, it isn't the store's anymore. You are doing them a personal favor by deigning to LET them inspect what you're carrying.

Fen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Fen said...

their "checks" are mostly cursory at best

I think it only looks cursory. As someone upthread said: they simply match the number of items in your cart with the number of items on your receipt.

Revenant said...

I don't see how this proves she is.

Yeah, you said that already.

William said...

This is an ambiguous situation where you can argue both sides of the case.. It's interesting to note, however, that PC sympathies are more with the young and the black than the old and the poor. Perhaps if it later turns out that she is an elderly transvestite, the polarities can be reversed.

Freeman Hunt said...

The greeter will be fired. The customer will continue to shop at Wal-Mart. The end.

Freeman Hunt said...

An employee violated company policy. Wal-Mart employs human beings, not automatons. What are they supposed to do? Install kill switches in the backs of all the greeters' necks?

DADvocate said...

Sometimes I think those people need to be less paranoid. In this case the elderly lady clearly has racist attitudes.

When I'm in Walmart the people that irritate me the most are the fat people. Blocking aisles, driving motorized carts like maniacs, those people make my shopping harder and dangerous. If you don't think we have an obesity epidemic, visit Walmart.

And why is WalMart having greeters -- old people -- act as pseudo-policemen anyway? Why should a greeter have any right to detain you? If this is company policy, I think it's bad policy.

Walmart seems to be specializing in bad policy right now.

jamboree said...

It's very hard not to notice any general patterns out there that have to do with face/neighborhood/upbringing etc.

I worked on a campaign this summer and stuck my nose into all kinds of places in my very racially diverse greater area, and I could give you an analysis right down to the *block* of a neighborhood.

And yeah, race had a big part to do with the feel of a neighborhood. if you didn't start recognizing some patterns and how to interact given your position/race/background/etc, you were unsuccessful - or even dead in certain areas.

Nothing says "I'm white from a nice white neighborhood" than the absolute, idiot refusal to adapt.

Basically, the old white lady would have been better off noticing the patterns she did and then shutting up about them - yet another form of adaptation - but still noticing and reacting to them.

By the way "noticing patterns" does not equal "treating people like shit".

Dust Bunny Queen said...

they simply match the number of items in your cart with the number of items on your receipt.


They are also looking to see if you slipped in a 'big ticket' item in the cart.

"Hmmmm.... I don't see a computer, dvd player,computer game, camera, or whatever on the receipt."

I've never been stopped or checked at WalMart. Costco, where I shop once every other month, we get funneled to the door from the check out stations and the receipts are always checked against the cart.

Fen said...

"I don't see how this proves she is."

Rev: Yeah, you said that already.

Well? You're a big boy. You've got game. Prove she's a racist.

Trooper York said...

Hey don't sweat it Mikio. They only follow asian people around in pet shops.

There has been a rash of puppies missing in Milwaukee.

And a strange increase in the number of dim sum joints.

Freeman Hunt said...

I don't mind the receipt checks. I choose to shop at the place, and I like the stuff there to be as cheap as possible. The more people can steal, the more expensive the stuff. You can shop at places that do not do these checks, you'll just have to pay more.

However, if a receipt check went like this for me, I'd be calling a manager, and I would expect to never see that employee at the store again.

Trooper York said...

If Margaret Cho was awake she would say that was racist.

Trooper York said...

And she would be a little hungry.

Revenant said...

Well? You're a big boy. You've got game. Prove she's a racist.

I'm not quite done watching you convince me that you're one too, Fen.

Comrade X said...

here's an idea: if you don't like your purchases being double-checked, don't shop at WalMart. it's not a surprise that they do it.

I don't shop there, and that's one of the reasons.

donttread2010 said...

@jamboree

"Nothing says "I'm white from a nice white neighborhood" than the absolute, idiot refusal to adapt."

Wow. Really? Many whites, my wife, for instance, freely travel daily into very 'diverse' inner-city areas to educate young 'diverse' students.

I'd say there's some adaptation going on there.

Furthermore, the refusal to adapt is not strictly a 'white' thing, that you can be sure.

Revenant said...

However, if a receipt check went like this for me, I'd be calling a manager, and I would expect to never see that employee at the store again.

The shoulder-grab alone is enough reason to call for the manager. The racist comments are just the icing on the cake.

traditionalguy said...

This is a little off subject , but once at a closing of a pretty obvious mortgage fraud in the late 2005 heydays of shell buyers and unrealistic inflated prices, my attorney employee refused to close one and asked for my help the next day when it was rescheduled while we asked the lender for written directions. I have a persona that can usually easily deal with confrontations. I politely explained to the Black borrower that we could not close it, but some other attorney might. The white sellers were first to get angry and demand why... because he wanted to see if I dared to call them all crooks. My traditional self simply replied to the white folks that, "you people know why." That set off the black folks. Anger and indignation is a chose in action for them, it seems. Finally we opened the doors and told them they had to leave, whereupon a football player looking 20 year old guy literally jumped back into my face. I instinctively blocked his raising arms down to his side as a wrestler's reactions will do. Then he accused me of assaulting him. The local police came over in 30 minutes and we told the officer what happened. Fortunately we were well known, especially my son, with the police department, And it ended there.

Fen said...

Rev: The racist comments are just the icing on the cake.

Please explain how "you people" (ie minorities) is racist.

Or point out what you meant by "racist comments" if thats not it.

I'm sure you think its obvious, but walk me through your thought process.

Fen said...

Rev: I'm not quite done watching you convince me that you're one too, Fen.

Because?

Revenant said...

I have a persona that can usually easily deal with confrontations.

But apparently not the wits to avoid loaded terms when speaking to others.

Fen said...

Rev: The shoulder-grab alone is enough reason to call for the manager.

What shoulder-grab? At 00:12 all you can see is her reaching to tap the shoulder of the customer (who admits to having earphones on)

Whether its a tap or a grab, you can't tell, because its outside of the frame.

I think you're jumping to conclusions based on something else than the evidence.

Trooper York said...

Where you went wrong traditional guy is that you didn't tell the black folks that they were getting ripped off. I would have said "Brother you are getting hosed. You better get someone else to look into this for you. Don't be trusting the white devil if you know what I mean."

Turn it around on them. Get them thinking. You can't cheat an honest man. If they are doing something crooked they will totally think the other party is screwing them. They would have left and thanked you for it.

Trooper York said...

Of course being a lawyer you couldn't just be honest with them.

"I don't like this. Something ain't right and I don't want to be a party to it. Here is C Vernon Mason's number. I think he got his ticket back by now."

traditionalguy said...

Rev...My point was that two sides of a table sometimes require calling one side different from the other side. It's that old Logic curse in communications. My other point was how much I learned that lesson about the innocent phrase "You people" being a code word to blacks. If they would explain the code words, it would be easier. In my next life, I am going to come back as a perfect person, because I have learned every mistake the hard way in this one.

Trooper York said...

It's really because you rednecks don't have the right accent.

I you just said "youse guys" everything woulda been fine.

And you wouldn't had any problem with the yutes.

William said...

If the facts were the same, and it was a one hundred year old black woman who was dispatched in such a way by a white woman in a hurry, I wonder if any here would argue the case.....I suppose we all argue our self interest. I'm old and cranky and I don't suppose my disposition will improve as I get older. I expect a little consideration from you punks.... Those who are arguing on the woman's behalf are not making an argument for tolerance so much as for their right to proceed to the parking lot without undue delay. Emptor uber alles, and if some creaky old bitch gets in your way, she will know the wrath of Khan. Enough with coddling these centenarians.

donttread2010 said...

@William

Good points. Sometimes, some people are simply 'more equal' than others.

chickelit said...

William said:

If the facts were the same, and it was a one hundred year old black woman who was dispatched in such a way by a white woman in a hurry, I wonder if any here would argue the case...

They'd be building a shrine already.

traditionalguy said...

Trooper...The buyer was an 18 year old young man wearing a Gangsta clothes, but his loan application said he had 2 years work in at a $90,000 per year job in Chicago where he came from. These deals were put together with a highly inflated price, using a fradulent appraiser, and with the sellers giving large money back to the ring after the deal closed. The threats to me came from the ring's leader who saw $30,000 profit disappearing. The Attorney they took it to was later indicted by the Federal DA and sentenced for cooperating in closing these deals. This was back when everybody in the deal knew it was a fraud, but the Wall Street Mortgage brokers couldn't get bad loans created fast enough. Honesty is a better Long Term plan. In fact you need to meet a better class of lawyers.

Revenant said...

Please explain how "you people" (ie minorities) is racist.

The statement is "you people think you can get away with anything". Which, as you concede, means "you racial minorities think you can get away with anything".

If you need it explained to you why "[racial group] thinks it can get away with anything" is a racist attitude to hold then, well, I'm sorry to hear that.

Revenant said...

What shoulder-grab? At 00:12 all you can see is her reaching to tap the shoulder of the customer

I see her grabbing Metcalf. The police agreed:

The police report also says Speelman violated Walmart policy by grabbing Metcalf's arm to get her attention

Any other questions?

Trooper York said...

tradional guy said....
In fact you need to meet a better class of lawyers.

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha.

A better class of lawyers. Lawyers and class in the same sentance.

Dude you are killing me. I almost bust a gut. I can't afford to be laid up during the holiday rush dude. Let me know when you are gonna crack a funny like that. Jeeez.

former law student said...

Please explain how "you people" (ie minorities) is racist

"You people" shows prejudice -- there was only one people there, with no indication she was acting like all the rest of her kind. "You people" differentiates people like the customer -- bad, disobedient, unworthy of repectful treatment -- from people like the employee -- good, fair, God's representative on earth.

that PC sympathies are more with the young and the black than the old and the poor.

Do Americans like the officious petty tyrant? The hall monitor? Which frat did you prefer in Animal House? Did you identify with Dean Wormer?

I think we can relate to being a big box customer far more than to being a big box door Nazi.

I never stop for these people. And I actually enjoy their impotent protests as a wheel the cart to my car.

Fen's people suck

former law student said...

If the facts were the same, and it was a one hundred year old black woman who was dispatched in such a way by a white woman in a hurry, I wonder if any here would argue the case

In the Lifetime movie, the doorguard would be played by Cicely Tyson, while the woman with the full cart would be played by Kathy Griffin.

Trooper York said...

Well hopefully there would be some sympathy for Kathy Griffin because she would have cancer.

Revenant said...

that PC sympathies are more with the young and the black than the old and the poor.

This isn't about the one woman being black and the other woman being old. This is about one woman being an ordinary shopper and the other woman being an obnoxious bitch.

PC doesn't even enter into it.

Mikio said...

Hey don't sweat it Mikio. They only follow asian people around in pet shops. There has been a rash of puppies missing in Milwaukee. And a strange increase in the number of dim sum joints.

What?! And you’re just sitting there commenting on it?! What kind of pansy-ass… Goddamn it! Quick! Saddle up and go round them doggies up, Trooper York! Do it for Milwaukee! Do it for America! Do it for…

The Duke.

Go now!! And watch out for their karate! Godspeed!

Big Gov't Trickling Down on You said...

So I guess there is another way to get 193 comments on Althouse.

Lawgiver said...

The greeter will be fired. The customer will continue to shop at Wal-Mart. The end.

Yes but it would be better if we;

BURN THE WITCH!!!
BURN THE WITCH!!!
BURN THE Witch!!!

Fen said...

Please explain how "you people" (ie minorities) is racist.

Rev: The statement is "you people think you can get away with anything". Which, as you concede, means "you racial minorities think you can get away with anything".

And? If her experience is that racial minorities are always trying to get away with everything, why is it racist to say so?

If black people are always the ones trying to rob you, and you say "black people are always trying to rob me", why is that racist?


[...]

I'm sure you think its obvious, but walk me through your thought process

If you need it explained to you why "[racial group] thinks it can get away with anything" is a racist attitude to hold then, well, I'm sorry to hear that.

ie. you can't explain why

Fen said...

fls: You people" shows prejudice -- there was only one people there, with no indication she was acting like all the rest of her kind.

"the rest of her kind" ?? Didn't you just do what she did with "you people" ?

with no indication she was acting like all the rest

1) she refused to respond to the greeters request to stop (the greeter couldn't see that she had earphones on)

2) she had unbagged merchandise in her cart, as per the police report.

Thats already two indications that fit the profile of a shoplifter.

Fen said...

What shoulder-grab? At 00:12 all you can see is her reaching to tap the shoulder of the customer

Rec: I see her grabbing Metcalf.

What timestamp? How can you see her "grabbing" Metcalf when they go off-frame at 00:12?

The police agreed: The police report also says Speelman violated Walmart policy by grabbing Metcalf's arm to get her attention

Again, I'm not seeing that in the article or in the DA's statement. Where are you getting that quote?

former law student said...

"You people" = Ipod listeners

Thanks Fen.

Fen said...

FLS: "You people" = Ipod listeners

I don't know why you think thats clever. I'm not disputing that by "you people" she means minorities.

(as opposed to Revs "racial minorities" - thats accurate, but not in the way Rev intended)

So I'm guessing you're just trying to dodge questions asked in good faith because you can't answer them...

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