November 12, 2010

Talking Points Memo turns 10.

"The post was about Ted Olson making his debut as the chief Bush lawyer in the emerging Florida Recount battle."

Yes, it's also the 10-year anniversary of the big Florida recount. I wish I'd been blogging then! It would have been so much fun to write about that every step of the way. I'd have liked to show you in real time that I really wanted my guy, Al Gore, to win, and I also accepted nearly everything the Supreme Court did in the complicated litigation over the recount. But there are so many missed blogging opportunities in the past. I'd have loved to have blogged the Clinton scandals too. And the Clarence Thomas hearings. The Bork hearings.

Here's that first TPM post:
As if things couldn't get any weirder, did you notice the name of the lawyer who made the Republicans' unsuccessful arguments before that federal judge today? That would be Ted Olson, a man Washingtonians often refer to as a 'Washington super-lawyer.' Who is Ted Olson? Well, that would be the same one knee-deep in the Arkansas Project, which in league with the American Spectator spent a ton of money digging dirt on Bill Clinton in Arkansas....
Well, now, isn't that weird? I just blogged this morning about that Think Progress blogger who confronted Justice Alito and he was going on about the Arkansas Project:
Last night, the American Spectator — a right-wing magazine known for its role in the “Arkansas Project,” a well-funded effort to invent stories with the goal of eventually impeaching President Clinton — held its annual gala fundraising event....
That first TPM post wove Justice Scalia into its conspiracy-ish riff:
Of course, Olson... is also the Olson from Morrison v. Olson, the supreme court case which upheld the constitutinality of the Independent Counsel statute. Olson was against it. Come to think of it, we Dems now think he and Scalia were right. So maybe chalk one up in his favor.
So that's how TPM first talked about law. Yikes. Spelled "constitutionality" wrong too.

I'm going to start reading the lefty blogs more and writing about them, I think. I'm interested in the way they string ideas together, and I think they need some more push back.

Do you want me to write more about lefty blogs?
No. Don't give them traffic.
No. I don't care what they say.
Yes. They need monitoring and criticism.
Yes. Broaden your view and see what happens.
Eh. Not sure. Depends on how sharp and funny you make it.
  
pollcode.com free polls

81 comments:

traditionalguy said...

That is the greatest thing that internet blogs have brought about: the carefully reasoned push back against the mixers of some truth with some lies. The MSM do that mixture trick continually. They are dying from it. In a mixture situation you end up either rejecting the truth to avoid the lie; or you end up swallowing the lie to get the truth. Let the Blogs attack these truth/lie mixers on sight.

shoutingthomas said...

I couldn't really find an option I liked. My preference fell somewhere in between:

o No. I don't care what they say.
o Yes. They need monitoring and criticism.

I flipped a coin and voted No.

Shanna said...

If you can find some posts that are crazy and filled with hatred, that would be awesome!

Shanna said...

Crap, I meant to say that "aren't" crazy and filled with hatred. I shouldn't post at work.

Ann Althouse said...

@Shanna LOL. I think the key is to find the right ones, with some sort or error or skewing that is interesting and useful to think about. That would not be something that you could just point at and say it's ugly, and it also wouldn't be something that pedestrian and sensible.

Original Mike said...

Do you want me to write more about lefty blogs?

Althouse: "Reading lefty blogs, so you don't have to."

Not that I really care what's on lefty blogs. The leftys who come hear more than satisfy my curiosity re: what the lefty mind "thinks".

Karnival said...

Well, lefties are typically very depressing, hand-wringing people. So serious about the most pressing issues of our time. You know, like Happy Meals. So, if you can make them interesting, less predictable, and more engaging- as human beings- well then, yes- I'd love for you to cover lefty blogs more often. That way I might be able to digest of few of their columns via osmosis. Lord knows, I've tried reading them, for years. It becomes the very definition of tedious. Speaking of which, I'd better stop writing now.

Maguro said...

Too easy. Fish in a barrel.

Marshal said...

I voted yes, but try not to link. You can't really have a discussion with people whose views are so unreasonable.

See fls and garage for example. One believes American conservatives are the equivalent of those who murder people because of their religion. The other believes not spending money the way he prefers means you don't care if people die. More of such idiots will kill the discussions. It's already hard to wade through the idiot posts, and lefties seem to regard ruining honest discussion as a positive.

Triangle Man said...

I went with the conditional, make it sharp and funny response.

How about some perspective from lefty blogs (if any) that run counter to the local conventional wisdom about lefty blogs?

c3 said...

The question/poll makes me feel like a tennis ball

so I chose not to answer.

To paraphrase Leslie Gore:

Its your blog and you'll what do what you want to

Chase said...

Just so I understand . . .

Your comments section is already frequented by consistently poorly-reasoned comments from the left.

And now you feel the need to fire up the intellectually bankrupt in inverse ratio to vehemence and portion of the left that has no life but plenty of time and so frequents the very blogs you will "review".

I commented for 2 years on those blogs (Kos, TPM) and even the slightest disagreement would always bring out the death wishes from the "tolerant" lefties. Yeah, they're a reasonable bunch

Seriously. I can find some of them if you want.

Life a little boring currently there, Professor?

c3 said...

I don't read TPM but reading that 10th anniversary post begs the question:

Does Josh Marshall (or any other blogger) have any sense of introspection?

(i.e. Maybe I misjudged Mr. Olsen.)

MadisonMan said...

I think bloggable material can come from many different sources.

Ten years ago, TPM and Andrew Sullivan were the two blogs I read. I don't read either now.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

read many left wing blogs and find them endlessly amusing. Pandagon in paticular is a laugh riot. Amanda is one freaking funny chick.

Not intentional of course.

Read it so you can push back. But don't try the funny. You don't bring the funny so good. Leave that to the professionals like Carrot Top. Just sayn'

miller said...

Check out Ta-Nehisi Coates at the Atlantic. A purer liberal blog you couldn't find.

And one of the sanest I've listened to.

miller said...

Of course, Coates does share the same blogworld as Sullivan, but I just don't read the crazy.

Trooper York said...

Lefties are very funny. Who is funnier than America's Politico?
Or hdhouse when he tries to pretend he speaks english? Or Titus when he lets the mask slip and goes on a lefty tirade?

Pure comic genius I tell you.

Richard Dolan said...

Pushing back is fine and can be quite important. But pushing forward is more satisfying. They're not mutually exclusive, but the difference in formulation suggests a difference in emphasis.

WV: revitelm. The eye beholds what isn't there.

Ankur said...

Chase, interesting data point. Here's another data point - me. As a moderate, I have some opinions that are fairly run of the mill conservative positions (gun ownership, limited government) and some fairly run of the mill liberal positions (gay marriage, global warming)

I haven't been shy of expressing my opposition or support of any of the ideas in either the lefty blogs or the righty blogs.

Guess where I've received the highest amount of personal insults, ad hominems and some racist commentary? in order of intensity - 1) Michelle Malkin
2) Althouse

Anyway - the point of this is, you're certainly one data point in the melee. I am also a data point with the opposite experience.

And "Individual Data Points" cannot prove a statistical point. Confirmation bias is too strong of an influence.

Ankur said...

Speaking of Ted Olson - I, for one, am thrilled that he is on the right side of the gay marriage debate.

Trooper York said...

Sure Ankur pull the race card.

None of this would happen to youse guy's if you would just fix my computer when I call you!

Jeeeez.

Lucien said...

Et Tu Althouse?
"Yes, it's also the 10-year anniversary of the big Florida recount"

Couldn't you just say "10th anniversary", in the hope that the visitors to your blog actually understand what "anniversary" means?

Marshal said...

" Ankur said...
Speaking of Ted Olson - I, for one, am thrilled that he is on the right side of the gay marriage debate."

He isn't.

But this does bring a question to my mind. When posting on lefty boards do you focus on areas where you disagree as you do here? And if so are you so snarky to refer to your side as "the right side"?

Ankur said...

Yes, I was thinking of you and SixtyGrit when I mentioned racism, Trooper York. The difference between him and you is that your jibes are funny, if annoying.

For the record - I don't think the vast majority of the commentariat here is racist at all. I just wanted to say that because I know you guys are sensitive to accusations of racism and I don't think you are, in general.

Ankur said...

Marshal, the answer to both your questions is 'Yes'

Original Mike said...

Trooper racist???

If Mort were awake, I'm sure he'd come to Troop's defense.

Ankur said...

..if I am certain I am right.

Trooper York said...

Jeeeez Ankur you really are a pussy. Can't you take a joke? What you need to do is post a few stupid American or dumb Irish guy jokes. Or are you gonna get all Gandi on me and sit there in a diaper and cry?

Don't have a cow man.

Oh shit now you are gonna say that is racist too! You just can't win.

Trooper York said...

Stand up for yourself pal. If you are just gonna sit there and cry and surrender you should be French and not Indian.

Welcome to the NFL.

Ankur said...

Trooper - you ARE funny and not too offensive. I was only using you as an example there - and you posted right after me, perfectly illustrating my point.

Trooper York said...

Well if your point is that you are not ready to play in the big leagues of blog commenting then I say you hit the nail on the head.
I hate when people pull the old "some of my best friends are..." bullshit but I will have you know that Titus's husband who is Indian often posts on my blog.

And he is a 7-11 Indian and not a casino Indian. Just sayn'

Hagar said...

The MSM and lefty blogs draw plenty comments elsewhere, and all this "but your guys did it too!" and "your mother wear combat boots!" get very tiresome as it is.

Trooper York said...

Most of all I am upset that you only find my comments mildly offensive. That's not what I am going for at all.

I want to be mind blowing, laugh to you piss your pants offensive.

Ankur said...

They would be VERY funny - if they weren't so hackneyed/predictable.

By all means, keep your jokes, offensive or not, coming. They don't bother me much and they make me smile sometimes.

But my point wasn't about you or me. My point was simply providing a counterexample to Chase's example above. Sorry that you had to become the case in point - but you will note that I didn't ask you to stop in any of my posts. Nor am I trying to guilt trip you into stopping. Go at it.

Trooper York said...

Here Ankur I want to help you out. Here's an Irish guy joke you can tell.

A woman walks in the police stationa and says "Help me I have been raped by an Irish guy." "How can you tell it was an Irish guy."
"I had to help him."

Trooper York said...

See you can offend women, rape victims, pansy ass liberal concern trollers and Irish guys all in one fell swoop. Perfect.

Trooper York said...

I don't take offense Ankur. I am really just busting your balls. You seem like a pretty cool guy. But almost all jokes by their very nature have to be trite and hackneyed because otherwise other people won't get it. Trust me I have posted some truly hilarious puns and observations that fly over everybodies head. So it is best to dumb it down a lot.

So anyway these two Hindus walk into a McDonalds.....

Original Mike said...

So it is best to dumb it down a lot.

And we appreciate that, Trooper.

Trooper York said...

No problem Mikey. I am glad you like it.

(obscure sixties tv commercial referance)

Ankur said...

"Don't have a cow man." - the best one in this thread.

Trooper York said...

And thanks for the back up. I bust on Mort more than anymore but he doesn't care as long as I introduce him to the white womans.

(obscure Richard Pryor referance)

Big Mike said...

leftys who come hear more than satisfy my curiosity

Sorry, Original Mike, but the lefties who come here don't come to hear (or pay attention, and certainly not to learn anything).

Original Mike said...

sigh

traditionalguy said...

Ankur...Trooper is telling you to hang in here and bring us a new point of view and add some class. A new commenter is run through a gauntlet here for a few weeks to see if he is a real person that thinks his own thoughts. Never apologize for your true opinions...they are the most interesting part.

Trooper York said...

Tradionalguy is exactly right. He is a good guy. For a lawyer.

Marshal said...

"Ankur said...
..if I am certain I am right."

So when you're certain you're right but you're actually wrong, don't you think that might rub people the wrong way?

Anyway, some people here are not discriminating enough when determining how they will respond to posts they disagree with. I think they're calloused by the general lack of goodwill extended them by commenting leftists and have decided to act in kind. Honestly it's a struggle when so many lack even the manners god gave tick turds.

I think people are able to determine where you are culturally and often respond to that. By culturally I mean the left and right have different views of how the world functions. I believe intent does not control outcomes. There are too many cases of well intentioned decisions which turned out horribly. To believe intent controls outcomes also implies the vast majority of people throughout world history are evil, because they must have intended the indisputably horrible outcomes. I don’t believe that. People are basically well intentioned (although certainly flawed). These horrible outcomes are a result of tiny little decisions compounded thousands of times until circumstances no one ever intended are beyond recognition. This is a rightist view, at least now in America it is. The left believes intent controls, which is why they believe anyone against their programs hates children (to quote garage), or the poor, or minorities, or whatever else. They believe their policies will have the outcomes they want and the only reason to oppose them is to oppose their intent.

So while you may say you're a moderate you come off as a cultural liberal, someone who discounts practical limitations and focuses on intent. Your errors of fact run one way, in favor of those who believe intent controls. The people you cite are from one side. The issues where you aren't as left are not the core left issues. People see this, and sometimes respond to it instead of your policy preferences. And I suspect on the left sites you visit they see the same.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

Oh and one more thing. Don't try and shake hands.

It is taboo.

Hee.

yashu said...

Ankur, 60G was truly ugly (almost moby-like) on that other thread, but Revenant spoke up for you (I was going to say something, but then Rev said what needed to be said). Sure, the argument on that topic was heated, as it often is here at Althouse, but it's unfair of you to tag the commenters here in general with the actions of one (especially when you were promptly defended by a regular).

Trooper York said...

All kidding aside, Ankur is being pretty fair and reasonable. As tradionalguy said, he is most welcome and I welcome his comments.

I will just have to deal with the smell. What are you gonna do? I mean if we can put up with garage and his road kill sandwiches it's little enough to do to encourage another voice here. Just sayn.

Trooper York said...

Not that what I think means anything by the way. I am just a lonely voice in the wilderness.

yashu said...

Well, since 60G is starting up again, I'll go ahead and post here what I was about to over there:

I concur, get the fuck out of our country, Anchor, you are part of the problem. You need to return to your third-world, piss-filled hell-hole and leave us to our own devices. Seriously. We need fewer terrorists and their butt buddies, not more.

****

Nothin' wrong with hatin' foreigners if they are here to subvert our nation. In fact, extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Goldwater should have been on the list of 100 most influential Americans, along with William F. Buckley.

Goldwater hated foreigners? He did say that "to disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable."

You're probably not a moby, but sometimes you sure do talk like one. At least it's frank of you to admit the "extremist" shoe fits (you).

Trooper York said...

And Sixtygrit is not a racist by any stretch of the imagination. I have personally seem him encourage young black women in their study of dance by contributing to their college fund one dollar at a time.

Ankur said...

haha. cripes. Fuck off, Trooper. Don't make me laugh despite myself!

Trooper York said...

I think everyone has one thing that makes them crazy so if they go a little over the top we should cut him some slack. You can go to far in argument some times. I know I do it. Ritmo does. Garage. Seven Machos. Many of us have that one issue that makes us lose it. Immigration. Taxes. Sarah Palin's vagina.

We should each declare the one thing that makes us see red and everyone can view our intemperate comments with a grain of salt.

I choose Sarah Jessica Parker that flithy nasty horsefaced bitch.

Ankur said...

Yashu - yes, you're right. It is unfair. However, I was making a statistical point relative to other blogs I've posted at (and disagreed in).

That is the funny thing about statistics - it makes everyone dirty.

Trooper York said...

You know I often picture commenters in my mind when I read their comments and try to think what they might look like.

Ankur is see as Timmy from Rules of Engagement.

Have patience for the short commercial (17 seconds)

yashu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madawaskan said...

Ankur

Keep in mind we have about six guys here who play with about twelve puppets.

So you'll find different "voices" sounding *surprisingly* alike.

Then we have a couple that play with themselves but that's for another-well it's obvious-you'll know 'em when you see 'em.

yashu said...

Re statistics, fair enough.

Re everyone having a crazy-making thing, true enough.

LOL, thank gods & all their chubby cherubim for Trooper.

madawaskan said...

Sixty Grit-

Enbrel-have you tried those type of NSAID's?

Trooper York said...

"Then we have a couple that play with themselves"

Hey I resemble that remark!

Especially in the Sarah Palin's threads.

madawaskan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madawaskan said...

Illness, pain and anti-inflammatory drugs will do that to me.

Hang in there guy. Keep you iron up!

Heh.

***************************

Trooper

LOL!

I actually had to look away from that thread-and give you your privacy....

Dude!

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madawaskan said...

*your* iron up.

Wow my English has left the building.

garage mahal said...

Could 60Grit just be hdhouse [when the roids are acting up]? A Roid Puppet, if you will.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
madawaskan said...

Sixty Grit-

Not to get your hopes up too much but I saw that stuff work a damn miracle.

The guy's spine didn't unfuse but the pain-

Boom! Gone.

Man...fingers crossed.

There's several different types but that's the one I'd start off w/ personally-just my opinion however. I think Enbrel's one of the ones that's been around the longest. It is one of the ones that requires the most frequent dosage, however.

Ankur said...

Apology accepted.

I hope your pain situation improves soon.

garage mahal said...

Is Slum Dog Mahal actually America's Asshole?

Sure, but not America's Politico.

Trooper York said...

"garage mahal said...
Is Slum Dog Mahal actually America's Asshole?

Sure, but not America's Politico."

Oh that explains it. I thought you were a little down about the election.

I love it when we all get along.

The Crack Emcee said...

The leftys who come hear more than satisfy my curiosity re: what the lefty mind "thinks".

Ditto. Let 'em keep coming after you - that's where the the action is.

garage mahal said...

Oh that explains it. I thought you were a little down about the election.

Literally down. Need some sturdier suspenders it appears.

c3 said...

Ankur;
you equated the liberality/conservatiness of a blog based on the comments. I don't think it works that way.

BJM said...

My first instinct is: Sure, go for it, we'll have us some fun.

Then I thought: Oh shit, we'll have to deal with trollage on a massive scale.

So now I'm torn.

AST said...

This is a blog, not a democracy. Do what you want.

Personally, I think that reading lefty blogs and skewering them is like shooting fish in a barrel of a shotgun.