November 12, 2010

Are Cindy and John McCain in a serious marital breakdown over Don't Ask Don't Tell?

John Aravosis says:
John McCain is leading the filibuster against the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" "repeal" legislation in the Senate (it's not an actual repeal, but we'll leave that for another time). Today, Cindy McCain joined a number of celebrities in a video about gay youth suicide and bullying. Mrs. McCain's part of the video condemned DADT and then accused our government of sending bullies a message that what they do is okay.

The woman basically accused her husband of sharing the blame for gay kids killing themselves.

I'm astonished. And impressed as hell.
Husband-wife teams work like that sometimes. It's not really evidence of a marital breakdown or even necessarily a real conflict at all. Try this exercise: Begin with the assumption that they are a partnership. Now, explain their behavior. Do you see how it makes sense? I sure do.

66 comments:

Paul Zrimsek said...

Mavericity sure looks different when you're on the receiving end, don't it, John?

Treacle said...

People like John Aravosis are always easily astonished (and easily frightened too; show him a picture of Sarah Palin and watch him piss himself and topple his appletini).

woof said...

Go Cindy Go

Expat(ish) said...

My wife is a liberal Canadian and I am a (very) conservative Southerner.

We agree on few things politically but I would never let that affect my marriage - I don't love her with all my heart either because of or despite her politics.

-XC

PS - Funnily enough, the longer she runs a small business the more she sounds like me when talking about government over-regulation. (But I repeat myself.)

MadisonMan said...

This would be a far more interesting story if he were President.

edutcher said...

And we're supposed to take John Aravosis' gloating word why?

People can (and sometimes do (I know it doesn't exist in Leftyland)) disagree on issues and still get along.

Ah Pooh said...

Keeps ALL their followers happy - also family and peer harmony for Megan.

Maguro said...

The Department of Defense is also responsible for all suicides involving fat people, recreational drug users and people with fallen arches.

The horror, the horror...

Denver said...

I am sure Ann will get around to explaining why it is totally Obama and the Democrats fault that DADT does not get repealed.

traditionalguy said...

Loving lesbians and gay men is far easier than approving of their life style, which is the issue here. If disapproval of gay life style means suicide, then does that outweigh all other considerations. Well, yes. But there is no proof that the suicides are caused from disapproval by others. Suicide comes from depression, which comes from self directed anger over the self murderer's own actions.

shoutingthomas said...

Yet another thing that liberals want the government to Do Something About: gay youth bullying and suicide.

I don't plug my blog very often. Today I will. I wrote this bit about a rally in Washington Square Park prompted by the suicide of the Rutgers student.

Is there anything that liberals don't want the government to Do Something About?

Mrs. McCain is also infamous for her stupid ad featuring her with a piece of duct tape over her mouth. Poor Mrs. McCain has been silenced!

She's a ditz.

The whole 60s thing of everybody having causes has become such a pain in the ass. How do we get all the activists to shut the fuck up and go home?

c3 said...

If Sen. McCain has been honest in his public pronouncements re: DADT then I would think this will have more sway over his opinion.

While I don't know the intimate details of their relationship the fact that John and Cindy McCain don't see eye to eye on several (?many) issues is not news.

TRO said...

Time to get another trophy wife?

Lem said...

Except for that guy who used to be Governor of Pennsylvania (pro-life) and was censored at the DNC convention.. I'm at pains to remember any lefty joining righties (not necessarily in person) for any particular out of school cause whatsoever.

By out of school I dont mean midnight basketball ;)

c3 said...

I watched the video.

We're getting moral instruction from Gene effing Simmons!!!

TRO said...

"We're getting moral instruction from Gene effing Simmons!!!"

Seriously, dude, that is something ain't it? Does anyone really think that Gene Simmons hasn't done more than a few gay jokes/insults in his long rocker life? Anyone?

Revenant said...

The "it gets better" thing has nothing to do with government action. It is about letting gay youth know that even if they're current being tormented by homophobic assholes, the adult world isn't like that; there are plenty of places where gay people are openly accepted.

I know how miserable it was being an atheist child in an overwhelming Christian fundamentalist environment. Gay kids have it SO much worse than that. Telling them that they just need to ensure for a few more years is a good idea.

Bender said...

It does seem rather anomalous that in this day, when gays and homosexuality are more accepted than ever, even celebrated and promoted in culture and entertainment, that gays are supposedly more distraught than ever.

Of course, this idea that gays are killing themselves because of all this supposed anti-gay harassment is complete nonsense. For one thing, as observed above, gays are more accepted than ever. For another thing, suicide by young people has been epidemic for decades.

But why the increase of gay suicides (if there is in fact an increase)?

Part of the answer might lie in why people commit suicide -- not because they want to be dead, but because of depression, internal strife, etc. So, why should gays be more distraught today even when more accepted than ever?

Could it be a case of "cognitive dissonance"? Society has encouraged them in their homosexuality, and they themselves have outwardly expressed "gay pride," but internally they are conflicted? Both on an ontological and moral level, they internally sense that something just isn't right? Maybe all this patting of gays on the back does them no favors, especially when gayness is pushed on little children, imposing a sexual identity on kids as young as 5 or 6?

shoutingthomas said...

I know how miserable it was being an atheist child in an overwhelming Christian fundamentalist environment. Gay kids have it SO much worse than that. Telling them that they just need to ensure for a few more years is a good idea.

OK, I didn't want to have to do this, but I will.

Just about everybody gets bullied!

This bullying bit is just another rationale for forcing the Fed into the private lives of people. And, it won't work, either. A Fed crusade against bullying will have either zero or negative effect. This is not an area in which government action is either desirable or potentially effective.

The creation of martyrs, which is what this is all about, is the classic ploy of political propagandists.

For instance, at the same time that that Shepard guy was supposedly tortured and murdered by "homophobes," a young straight man was tortured and murdered by two gay men in Arkansas.

The case in Arkansas didn't interest the press because it didn't fit their gay martyrdom scenario.

I was bullied as a kid. Just about everybody is.

And the guy who's out bullying gays? Well, that is obviously a guy who's very concerned about his own sexuality and will one day be sucking cock.

The real threat to the health and safety of gay men is their own behavior. Remember the tens of thousands gay men who died of AIDS? And the gay male lifestyle of public sex in bathrooms and pickup sex with dozens of bars is inherently dangerous.

TRO said...

"I know how miserable it was being an atheist child in an overwhelming Christian fundamentalist environment."

It can't possibly be any worse than being a Catholic in an overwhelming Christian fundamentalist environment. I survived it . . . anyone can.

And as to bullying. Back in my youth, it was usually the jocks who bullied and they pretty much seemed to be equal-opportunity jackasses. Has that changed that much?

woof said...

And the gay male lifestyle of public sex in bathrooms and pickup sex with dozens of bars is inherently dangerous.

You're making sweeping generalizations of how most gay men act. There is no gay male lifestyle.

Is the cast of the Jersey Shore representative of the straight male lifestyle ?

shoutingthomas said...

You're making sweeping generalizations of how most gay men act. There is no gay male lifestyle.

Bullshit.

I've lived for the past 35 years in San Francisco and New York City.

The AIDS epidemic was caused by the gay male lifestyle.

You're a bullshit artist and a liar.

The sexual behavior of gay men is far more likely to cause them harm than bullying. Thousands of times more likely.

shoutingthomas said...

Let me amend my comments.

I'm making "sweeping generalizations" that are usual true.

Stereotypes become stereotypes because they're usually true.

woof said...

I've lived for the past 35 years in San Francisco and New York City.

Most gay men do not live in SF or NY.

You're a bullshit artist and a liar

Snap !

woof said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mississippi Truck Driving Man said...

If this election has proved anything it is that the American people want fags back in the closet and stop their poluting of our society. Republicans better not back off of restoring honor to our country.

woof said...

If this election has proved anything it is that the American people want fags back in the closet and stop their poluting of our society. Republicans better not back off of restoring honor to our country

You just can't make this stuff up folks !

yashu said...

You just can't make this stuff up folks !

Of course you can; that's what mobys do.

TRO said...

"Most gay men do not live in SF or NY."

Yeah tons live in Atlanta now, too.

I'm not sure if there is a "gay male lifestyle" or not, but the gay male lifestyle that always seems to be the media narrative is the more flamboyant one ala SF.

No doubt, that does lead to the perception that there is one in the first place.

chickelit said...

Palladian outed Mississipi's trollhood back here: link

"Mississippi" is particularly prone to trolling the gay topic threads.

Sigivald said...

When DADT is repealed, I expect no change whatsoever in teen suicide rates for gay kids.

And I expect Cindy McCain won't walk back her belief that somehow teenage bullies are responding to irrelevant government policies to pick the same targets who've been easy pickings for the past, uh, ever.

Did the Lawrence decision cause a drop in gay teen suicide?

If not, why was that not effective on making teen bullies change their minds, and yet DADT repeal will be?

Makes no god damn sense. Has she never had to deal with an actual bully, ever? Does she really believe they're just reacting to subtle signals from the Federal Government?

Can an adult human being really be that stupid?

Sigivald said...

Denver: That's easy. Because they weren't willing to actually try to do it.

They tried it, half-assedly, as an amendment to another bill, with a bunch of poison pills on it, if I recall.

If they'd put a bill doing nothing else together, pushed for it, and failed because of a unified Republican filibuster (or because of Democrat defections)?

Then I'd absolutely give them credit for doing all they can, and blame the Republicans (and any defectors) for its lack of repeal.

But they didn't try that.

Know why? Because they know it's not quite popular enough to waste the political capital on. Too many Democrat voters don't actually like gays that much, you see.

I suggest looking at the polls for approval of homosexuality by demographic groups, and then comparing with Democrat voting blocs. Then think about what just happened in the election.

The calculus isn't exactly tricky, you know...

Clyde said...

Maybe she's just looking for a little back-door action.

Revenant said...

But why the increase of gay suicides (if there is in fact an increase)?

Are people saying there's an increase? The people I've heard talking about it are just upset that it happens at all. It has been a problem for a very long time, because being a teenager is confusing enough when you aren't (a) different from virtually everyone you know and (b) still hated by a LOT of people just for existing.

I'm not a fan of Harvey Milk, but he said it pretty well in 1978:

Somewhere in Des Moines or San Antonio there is a young gay person who all the sudden realizes that he or she is gay; knows that if their parents find out they will be tossed out of the house, their classmates will taunt the child, and the Anita Bryant's and John Briggs' are doing their part on TV. And that child has several options: staying in the closet, and suicide. And then one day that child might open the paper that says "Homosexual elected in San Francisco" and there are two new options: the option is to go to California, or stay in San Antonio and fight.

Sure, gay people have never had it better than they do today. But "it has never been better" doesn't mean "it is good". When a third of the population can barely contain their disgust and revulsion of you, it hurts.

prairie wind said...

Maybe if they would teach kids to deal with bullies, we'd all be better off. My kids make fun of the standard advice about bullying: "Tell an adult!" If that is all kids learn about dealing with bullies, no wonder there is so much helplessness out there.

Seventh grade, 1973, we had a new kid who was a bit of an oddball. Back then, we didn't know anything about gays; all we knew was that guys hated being called f*gg*ts. After school, one of the boys picked a fight with the new kid (f*g!) and ended up with a beautiful shiner. That was the end of picking on the new kid.

Today, the new kid would be left talking to the school counselor who would tell him what a grand human being he is...something he probably already knows. What he doesn't know is how to throw a punch. I tell my kids that if they ever defend someone from bullying and get suspended from school because of it, I would be proud of the stand they took.

Revenant said...

OK, I didn't want to have to do this, but I will. Just about everybody gets bullied!

I'm not talking about getting bullied, although that's certainly part of it. I wasn't "bullied" for being an atheist, although I might have been if I was physically weaker. What made being an atheist depressing, as a child, is that (a) the society I lived in hated atheists and wasn't shy about labeling them as immoral and/or evil, and (b) I didn't know any other atheists. There were no positive atheist role models I knew of.

Being bullied is easier to deal with. You know who, exactly, your problem is. But when the problem is that the world you live in really does hate you for who you are... well, that's hard. Realizing that the world you live in NOW isn't the world you have to live in for the rest of your life is a wonderful thing.

Revenant said...

I'm making "sweeping generalizations" that are usual true. Stereotypes become stereotypes because they're usually true.

Does this apply to the stereotype that white conservative Christians are ignorant half-witted racists?

Is that usually true? Just curious.

HDHouse said...

in a marriage half the participants can be pinheads without dissovlving the union.

s lot unsaid there.

shoutingthomas said...

Does this apply to the stereotype that white conservative Christians are ignorant half-witted racists?

Is that usually true? Just curious.

The stereotype of white conservative Christians is that they are hard working, virtuous, tolerant and responsible for most of what is good about America.

That stereotype is true.

shoutingthomas said...

And, yes, gay men did cause the AIDS epidemic with their sexual behavior.

Play the fool and deny it all you want.

It's one of those things we're supposed to pretend we don't know.

Go ahead, fool.

woof said...

rAnd, yes, gay men did cause the AIDS epidemic with their sexual behavior.

I never said that the AIDS epidemic wasn't caused by gay men. My point is that is was spread by a sub-set of gay men.

The stereo type of Conservative Christians is that they are close minded, ignorant, hateful, hypocritical bigots who don't follow Christ's teachings.

You seem to be a prime example of the species.

shoutingthomas said...

The stereo type of Conservative Christians is that they are close minded, ignorant, hateful, hypocritical bigots who don't follow Christ's teachings.

You seem to be a prime example of the species.

Did you just come in your pants?

You really are a piece of shit, aren't you?

Revenant said...

The stereotype of white conservative Christians is that they are hard working, virtuous, tolerant and responsible for most of what is good about America.

No, that's what you say about yourselves. That's certainly not the stereotype.

And, yes, gay men did cause the AIDS epidemic with their sexual behavior.

Strange that most AIDS sufferers have never had a homosexual encounter.

shoutingthomas said...

Revenant,

Now we've descended into total dumb fuck land.

Go white your ass.

This time get the shit off your asshole.

And, don't play with your dick like you usually do.

Revenant said...

My goodness, Thomas. Was that an example of being "virtuous, tolerant and responsible"? Tsk, tsk.

shoutingthomas said...

My goodness, Thomas. Was that an example of being "virtuous, tolerant and responsible"? Tsk, tsk.

Who said I was a conservative Christian?

You're just a fucking jerkoff.

Go wipe your ass. It stinks.

Revenant said...

I do find it amusing that, when angered, you begin vividly imagining things about men's asses, their genitalia, and ejaculation. Speaking of stereotypes, have you heard the one about the true sexual orientation of outspoken homophobes?

rcocean said...

Yes, this is funny. McCain's position on DADT is easy to understand. First, McCain doesn't give a flying fuck about Gay rights or Gay marriage one way or the other. On social issues he just bends whichever way the DC elite wind blows. But as an old Navy Man, he's in favor of keeping DADT. I mean its a Military issue - and that's important. But you can't expect the old woman to think the same.

chickelit said...

I blame the Village People. They did more harm than good.
In The Navy

Ankur said...

I went to the link provided and I couldn't find any mention of "marital breakdown". Am I looking at the wrong page? or has it been altered since Ann posted this?

ddh said...

People who think a disagreement between spouses over a political question signifies a marital problem have never been married. Moreover, these people must have been raised by wolves because they never heard their biological or adoptive parents disagree. Or they could be phonies.

Guess which category I think John Aravosis belongs in.

c3 said...

ST;

And, yes, gay men did cause the AIDS epidemic with their sexual behavior.

Several points:
-mechanism of spread does not equal cause
-Obviously you're ignoring Africa, the likely origin of the virus
-new cases are increasingly (if not yet a majority)causes by other risk factors than male/male sexual contact

I would wager that male to male contact is the risk factor in a minority of new cases in the military (since we were discussing DADT)

Jason (the commenter) said...

Ah Pooh: Keeps ALL their followers happy - also family and peer harmony for Megan.

It also gives her husband a ready excuse in case he flip-flops on the issue in future:

"Oh, I had a heart-to-heart with my wife and she convinced me of the error of my ways..."

Jason (the commenter) said...

Denver: I am sure Ann will get around to explaining why it is totally Obama and the Democrats fault that DADT does not get repealed.

They had majorities in the House and the Senate. They also had the option of not appealing the decision striking it down.

They get all the credit.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Looking at this behavior I have to assume Cindy McCain would have made a terrible First Lady.

LilyBart said...

Cindy McCain is only in a struggle to be relevant.

Ankur said...

Where, in the link, has Aravosis talked about marital discord? that phrase seems to be of Ann's choosing.

Unless I am missing something.

Penny said...

Althouse said, "Try this exercise: Begin with the assumption that they are a partnership. Now, explain their behavior. Do you see how it makes sense? I sure do."

Makes sense to me too.

Statistically, these days, the chances of success in a "partnership"...business or marriage...are abysmal.

When one partner steps out in an unusual and attention-getting way, they are fighting for their own PERSONAL identity in a lop-sided partnership.

Fortunately, John McCain is in a good place.

He has quite a bit of experience in compromise. Let's see if he can use that experience when it matters most.

jr565 said...

Why are gay suicides more special than non gay suicides, where celebrities have to make public service announcements about such behavior? If you want to argue the principal that bullying is wrong, I'll go along with you there (though do you really need to make a commercial about it) but if you watch any John Hughes comedy you'll know the fat kid is bullied, the nerd is bullied, the stoner is bullied, the social outcast is bullied, the poor kid is bullied, the ethnic minority is bullied, and the weak kd is bullied, as is the homely girl and boy.
Stop crying about bullying for one special class.

Penny said...

"Stop crying about bullying for one special class."

Precisely, jr565!

We who "bully", or "have been bullied"...Well? Maybe we need to find a corral of like-minded BULLS!

Penny said...

CAUTION!

"Bulls in china shops" usually make a make a mess of things.

And, hey! Why are the dang shops always in China?

Revenant said...

Why are gay suicides more special than non gay suicides

Gay teenagers are three times as likely to attempt suicide. They aren't "more special"; they are more frequent.

Stop crying about bullying for one special class.

See, that's exactly the kind of mentality that the TSA uses when it subjects pregnant housewives from Minnesota to the same scrutiny as twenty year old Pakistani men: "let's close our eyes, plug our ears, and pretend everyone presents the same risk".

It is normal for a problem to disproportionately involve one group more than another. When celebrities give speeches to poor urban schools urging the students to graduate and not have kids out of wedlock, nobody whines "what about the rich white kids, it is tragic when they get knocked up and drop out too". Not because rich white kids don't sometimes do that, but because anyone with wits recognizes it's a lot more likely to happen with poor minority kids in the ghetto.

Penny said...

"Stop crying about bullying for one special class."

Unless you TOO are now in some "special class"

Will say this once, and then again...

There is NO end to "equality".

Palladian said...

Thanks for your comments, Revenant.

yes said...

My favorite:

Elvis Costello cancelled a concert in Israel as a result of the Gaza flotilla conflict, and his wife Diane Krall had performed there previously. (Maybe she had come around to agreeing with him to boycott Israel, but I like the idea of them having passionate pillow arguments about it.)

yes said...

And, yes, gay men did cause the AIDS epidemic with their sexual behavior.

And not surprisingly lesbians have the lowest incidents of AIDs at all. So lets make lesbian sex legal but not male homosexual sex.

:->

wv: hacush
Bless you! Here's a hanky.