August 21, 2010

"It’s a sad commentary that it even has to be stated what faith the president observes, as if it should matter whether he follows Christianity, or any religion at all."

"What if he were a Muslim? What if he were an atheist? Why should that matter? And let’s not forget that some of the same critics who insist that Obama is a Muslim criticized him for going to a Christian church where prayed for 20 years, got married, and baptized his children.”

Tobin Harshaw quotes Alan Colmes, and let me respond in list form:

1. Who are the critics who insist that Obama is a Muslim? The poll just said 20% of Americans believe Obama is a Muslim. That doesn't mean they "insist" that he is or that they are "critics." Isn't it funny when commentator puzzling over how Americans can believe such things displays his own propensity to leap to conclusions beyond what the evidence supports?

2.  It would matter if Obama is really a Muslim or an atheist, because it would mean that he'd lied about religion — for political advantage. If you want to find out more generally whether Americans are willing to accept non-Christian candidates, show me how they respond to a candidate who doesn't purport to be a Christian. The candidate's fear of discrimination — if that's what happened — isn't fairly used to tar Americans as intolerant.

3. There's nothing inconsistent with thinking Obama is a Muslim and criticizing him for going to a Christian church for 20 years. The criticism about the church had to do with the preaching of Jeremiah Wright, which offended and outraged a lot of people during the 2008 campaign. Obama himself chose to denounce him and separate himself from Wright's church (Trinity).

4. Does Obama's past association with Trinity Church prove that he was (and is) a Christian? My source is "Dreams from My Father," chapter 14. While working as a community organizer, Obama was told that it would "help [his] mission if [he] had a church home" and that Jeremiah Wright "might be worth talking to" because "his message seemed to appeal to young people like [him]." Obama wrote that "not all of what these people [who went to Trinity] sought was strictly religious... it wasn't just Jesus they were coming home to." He was told that "if you joined the church you could help us start a community program," and he didn't want to "confess that [he] could no longer distinguish between faith and mere folly." He was, he writes, "a reluctant skeptic." Thereafter, he attends a church service and hears Wright give a sermon titled "The Audacity of Hope" (which would, of course, be the title of Obama's second book). He describes how moved he was by the service, but what moves him is the others around him as they respond to a sermon about black culture and history. He never says he felt the presence of God or accepted Jesus as his savior or anything that suggests he let go of his skepticism. Obama's own book makes him look like an agnostic (or an atheist). He respects religion because he responds to the people who believe, and he seems oriented toward leveraging the religious beliefs of the people for worldly, political ends.

94 comments:

BarryD said...

Alan Colmes? Alan... now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time...

Bob_R said...

Polls don't tell you what people think. Polls tell you what they were willing to tell the pollster. I believe that it's an indication of the health of the republic that people are willing - even anxious - to lie to pollsters. A country where everyone feels obligated to tell pollsters the truth is ripe for tyranny.

So a bunch of people who hate Obama will tell pollsters they think he is a Muslim and a another bunch will tell pollsters they think Bush was in on 9/11. No doubt there is a bunch that will tell them they are joint heads of a child pornography ring.

The only real lesson is that people who take polls very seriously are fools.

Kirstin said...

In a July 21, 2008 Newsweek article, Obama explained that he stopped going to church as often after he and wife Michelle had children.

“As young marrieds, Barack and Michelle (who also didn't go to church regularly as a child) went to church fairly often—two or three times a month. But after their first child, Malia, was born, they found making the effort more difficult. ‘I don't know if you've had the experience of taking young, squirming children to church, but it's not easy,’ he says.

“‘Trinity was always packed, and so you had to get there early. And if you went to the morning service, you were looking at—it just was difficult. So that would cut back on our involvement.’

“After he began his run for the U.S. Senate, he says, the family sometimes didn't go to Trinity for months at a time. The girls have not attended Sunday school.”

(From CNSNews.com, November 13, 2008.)

Jason (the commenter) said...

He's not a secret Muslim, he's a secret Atheist!

Issob Morocco said...

Religion is Obama's beard.

Joseph said...

I actually agree with everything in this post. I'd add that I think it also should matter if he were a Muslim, not only if it was evidence that he had lied, but because one's religion is, especially in the U.S. and certainly with respect to Obama, a reflection of one's worldview, which I think is quite relevant to judging the de facto leader of the free world.

That said, Obama is obviously not Muslim. I assume that Obama is similar to a large, quiet minority of the U.S. population in that he identifies as Christian, appreciates Christianity and its history and lessons, but is not dogmatic, maybe feels somewhat agnostic if pushed, and mostly is affiliated with a church for reasons that aren't particularly inspiring (social opportunities, family obligations, mindless habit, appreciation of the ritual/aesthetic, political/business networking, etc.)

Alex said...

Obama obviously is not a Muslim since they can't help themselves and he would have revealed something by now. I think he has a strong affinity for the Muslim world.

Lincolntf said...

Well and succinctly answered.

I've stopped asking Obama voters/supporters if they've read either of his books. I think that half the people (a good chunk of whom were Profs at an HBCU) I expected to be able to give me chapter and verse had never read a page. Another 25-40% gave vague indications that they might've once read something he wrote, and the rest were true believers who had read the books. They generally tried to tell me that they were the musings of a brilliant philosopher, not really political. (Having suffered them both, I know that they're both watery preographies of a narcissist.)

SteveR said...

His actions speak of a man without a firm Christian faith but a very politically motivated set of priorities. He perhaps calls himself a Christian, but has he ever said he had experienced risen Christ, felt indwelled with the Holy Spirit. Too bad, if not, that's the really great thing about being a Christian.

jamboree said...

Well, it's the" others around you" that are the real church, so being moved by them is actually not so bad.

Grim said...

Islam is Obama's home team. He grew up as a muslin in Indonesia. I doubt he believes in the religion but by default will defend it and support it. How else do you end up hiring the guy to head nasa and tell him that his job is to make Muslims feel good about their contributions to science?

William said...

I think Bush had to overcome a certain amount of antipathy to preach tolerance for Muslims. That's what made his sermons credible and useful. Obama feels no such antipathy. I'm sure that he feels more antipathy to bitter clingers in PA than he does towards Islamic militants. That's what makes his sermons suspect....I don't think that he is a Muslim in any formal sense. Neither is the Rev. Wright. But I think the Rev. Wright feels more areas of agreement with Minister Farrakhan than with the Pope or the Lutheran Synod or the Archbishop of Canterbury. It is much easier for people like Obama to figure that the anti-mosque crowd are bigots than that the pro-mosque people are triumphalists....You can characterize my distrust of Obama as a form of bigotry. But how would you characterize the distrust of the American left towards the American people?

Trooper York said...

I don't think Obama is a Muslim.

I think he is Roger Clemens.

HDHouse said...

Let's put on our thinking caps here. Has Obama put forth that he is a Muslim? Nope.

Has the democratic party put it out there that he is a muslim or a secret muslim? Nope.

Gosh. Who does that leave? I guess some group must have started that rumor and just kept it up. Might actually be some of the same ones who started rumors about his citizenship. can that be?

I suspect that if we found a group who hates and dispises Muslims and thinks that calling someone a Muslim is a smeer...well my guess is that you found the culprits.

Fred4Pres said...

My problem with President Obama is that he is a liberal. And not the classical liberal type, but the "Meathead"* idiotic liberal type.

And all his poor choices and policies flow from that spring of failure.

* ironic that Norman Mailer, in his quest to satire Archie Bunker, created the perfect character of liberalism in the form of Meathead. Rob Reiner was so affected by the role it completely possessed him.

HDHouse said...

SteveR said...
"Too bad, if not, that's the really great thing about being a Christian."

Intolerance and condescension seem to be other attributes that win high marks.

DADvocate said...

Why should that matter?

I'll be more impressed when Colmes and other lefties start asking that question and preaching tolerance when it comes to the religion of Sarah Palin and other conservative/fundamentalist Christian sects (few of which are as conservative/fundamentalist as much of Islam).

But, it's all about trying to make Obama look good, not honest discussion.

traditionalguy said...

Placing faith in wealth and power is not illegal. And placing trust in Nicene Creed's supernatural Christian faith is not illegal either. There is a lot of both of these folks mixed together in most successful Churches. The biggest worry for believers in a church group is those in the group with an easy added belief that God permits chosen ones, like them, to rob other people that are not alert for liars dressed up as believers. That is why knowing whether a leader has a faith ,and which type of faith, is of great interest. (Skeptics are seldom a threat to anyone). The best test is not smoothness and attendance, but it is their attitude towards God's word. Do you Remember General Patton's Episcopalian faith which included scripture reading " Every God Damned day." That was profane and not smooth, but it was evidence of a real faith.

Rocco said...

HDHouse wrote:
"Gosh. Who does that leave [that claims that Obama is a Muslim]? ... Might actually be some of the same ones who started rumors about his citizenship."

Hillary supporters are behind this?

Flexo said...

"as if it should matter whether he follows Christianity, or any religion at all."

Yeah, what possible relevance could there be to his beliefs as to the most profound issues of human existence and the entire universe?

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

The MSM and the dems vilified G.W. Bush for 8 years for wearing his Christianity on his sleeve.

Now these same players are jumping through hoops to prove that Obama is a....CHRISTIAN!

BTW: I see people here saying "He's obviously not a muslim" and this reminds me that people of all stripes project on Obama what it is that THEY think.

Because Obama is obviously, even to this day a secret. Nobody knows anything about him at all! All by design.

No past, no friends, no college scores, no writings (except for two ghost written books by Bill Ayers)

No nothing, so people will now fill in the blanks based on what they see, feel and think.

edutcher said...

The Zero only believes in the wonderfulness of himself and maybe Uncle Saul. He will have no other Messiahs before him.

He is an apostate Moslem; he practiced Islam in Indonesia - how devoutly is up for grabs.

His Christianity is no different from all the other people who go to church solely for the business contacts. Of course, going to hear Rev Wright fit right in with what he'd been taught at home.

HDHouse said...

Let's put on our thinking caps here. Has Obama put forth that he is a Muslim? Nope.

He also promised to protect and defend the Constitution.

Has the democratic party put it out there that he is a muslim or a secret muslim? Nope.

Well, there was that question in one of the primary debates.

Gosh. Who does that leave? I guess some group must have started that rumor and just kept it up. Might actually be some of the same ones who started rumors about his citizenship. can that be?

Maybe it was the people who noticed that he practiced Islam for several years.

I suspect that if we found a group who hates and dispises Muslims and thinks that calling someone a Muslim is a smeer...well my guess is that you found the culprits.

Maybe it's just people who love their country, realize it's at war with radical Islam, hate seeing it destroyed from within, and are a little concerned that the person elected POTUS is a radical, raised Moslem, and despises the United States.

And the word is 'smear'.

Flexo said...

What makes one a Muslim?

Technically, if you profess that there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet, that in itself makes you Muslim. Others would say that a male child born to a Muslim father is ipso facto Muslim.

It would seem then that it is part profession of faith, as in Christianity (but which would also include baptism), and is also partly a matter of birth/culture, as in Judaism.

And many Muslims would insist that, once a Muslim, always a Muslim (again, as is the case with both a baptized-Christian and a Jew).

Barack Obama was born into a Muslim family and was instructed and raised in Islam for much of his early life. That would mean that Obama, as a little boy, was Muslim.

That would also mean that, if he is not now Muslim, that he is instead a Christian, or a Christianized agnostic, then he is an apostate from Islam. Apostasy in Islam is a capital offense.

BJM said...

He respect religion because he responds to the people who believe, and he seems oriented toward leveraging the religious beliefs of the people for worldly, political ends.

So in other words, Obama is a opportunist at best or at worst a phony.

AST said...

I thought he was lying. I'll never trust that Alan Colmes again.

He doesn't even know how to spell "Allen."

Kirby Olson said...

I think we should start the rumor that he is actually a ninja working for Emperor Akihito of Japan. That bow proves it!

cathy said...

Leveraging the religious beliefs of the people for worldly, political ends. Yeah, he's a walking political ad. That's about all.

Pogo said...

It’s a sad commentary that even Obama's true believers, those thrilled by his speeches and impressed by his autobiographies, are stymied by the simple query about what faith the president observes.

SteveR said...

HD House, Since you have no idea about the subject other than you own well established ignorance and intolerance, I'll take your comment for what its worth-- nothing. You really have no value here. You're not original, funny, interesting or thought provoking, but rather, just tiresome.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trooper York said...

Well since this place has kind of turned into a remake of the Adams family, hd is perfect for the role of Uncle Fester.

Michael said...

HD House: How do you explain Obama's statement, out of his own mouth, that was corrected by George Stephanopolis? I believe he uttered the phrase "my Muslim faith" before George leapt the the rescue. Now I personally believe he is a Christian because I have no reason to doubt him, but do you not find it odd that such a statement spilled from his lips? Passingly odd? Have you ever misstated your religion? Race?

ricpic said...

Obama is a pig in a poke.

Almost Ali said...

When in Rome:

Rev. Jeremiah Wright is Muslim, an extension of which is Black Liberation Theology.

Barack Obama is a Muslim, an extension of which is lying and deceiving Infidels.

American Liberals are congenital fools, an extension of which is Barack Obama.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

It would matter if Obama were a Muslim because Islam is an explicitly political religion. The separation of church and state is anathema in Islam.

kimsch said...

I think that the American People just want to know if Obama is religious at all. To know that he believes in a higher power and that he is not, in his own mind, The higher (highest) power...

wv: hoaduffe

Leland said...

Good read, Professor. Once again, you write the commentary that makes it great to come back here often. Thanks.

Lionheart said...

Obama is whatever is currently convenient. He has spoken for and against single payer health care, for and against taxes for certain segments of the population and so on.
Attending Wright's church was a political move. I agree with others who guess he is agnostic but that would not be a convenient position for him.

Cedarford said...

The issue of secret Muslims (or Jews) is an interesting historical fact. The matter of Muslims being false conversos or the Jews that collaborated with Muslims in order to stay in Iberia or the Holy Land.

As was the existence of secret Christians in Roman times, or under Muslim occupation.
There are people outside religious ideology that kept their membership in subversive or revolutionary groups secret.

Muslims even are allowed to lie and appear Christian to penetrate enemy ranks. They made Taqqiyah part of their Faith. The Byzantines fought this.

Nothing of course indicates Obama is a Taqqiyah practitioner. But he was born to a Muslim father then was raised and attended Mosque for several years as stepson of another Muslim. In later years he claims he was brought into Christianity well into his adulthood, almost two decades after leaving Indonesia...because Rev Wright's church was a good place to do community organizing and "legitimate" himself as a black politician from . (At the time, the followers of Prophet Elijah in the Black Muslims were interested in behind the scenes influencing but telling members to avoid being in politics themselves. Had the Black Muslims been more active, if they controlled candidates selected in S Side Chicago and were sponsoring members to the Dayley Machine...maybe Obama's conversion would have gone a separate path.)

There are also his actions. Calling middle America bitter people clinging to their (Christian faith) and guns. NO Christmas goings on at the White House. Kids don't go to Sunday school, Obamas don't attend CHurch.
While he does his apology tour to Islam for the Crusades, not doing enough giving of US wealth to Muslim countries, for being hard on captured terrorists and not as heedful of terrorist rights as we should be.
Immediately denying that Islam had anything to do with the "troubled men" like the Christmas bomber, Major Hasan, the Times Square bomber.
Out saying building a Mosque near the WTC Pit is a wonderful thing because it is legal. And Muslims will love us if all just shut up and not criticize anything Muslims have a technically legal right to do.

No, I can see why people wonder. And this one is a lot more plausible, and has a lot more non-kook people saying it than the Chem Trailers, Birthers, 9/11 was in inside job!! whackos.

Paul said...

Alan Colmes is so intellectually dishonest that nothing he has to say is worth listening to.

He would never acknowledge the truth if it contradicted the political positions he is paid to defend.

I doubt he even believes anything he says. It's just a job.

PS, there are people on the right who are not any different.

Rialby said...

If Barack Obama is a Muslim who has been practicing Taqiyya in order to be elected, this would be not only a gross violation of our trust but also the biggest story of the last 234 years of American history. A member of a group, many adherents of which have openly declared war on this country, has lied about his true beliefs in order to get into office.

I don't think Obama is a Muslim yet I don't think he's a traditional Christian either. He joined the only church that someone like Barack Obama could.

Rialby said...

Btw, Alan Colmes is a worthless hack. If anyone to the right of Evan Bayh does anything that Howard Dean doesn't agree with, Colmes is there to rationalize it.

If I had 5 extra minutes, I could find a dozen instances of leftists like Colmes explicitly denouncing people for being too Christian or too religious or whatever. So clearly religion matters. Except when it comes to Barack Hussein Obama.

Rialby said...

So, the better question to ask AND answer is... is Jeremiah Wright really a Christian? Or, as a former member of the Nation of Islam, could he be practicing taqiyya?

The Crack Emcee said...

Two things:

1) It matters, politically, because - like the oil spill was a do-over of Katrina - liberals lied about W being a right-wing born again nutjob. They can't keep complaining that it doesn't matter, or it's unfair, once their own standards are applied to Leftists.

2) Obama is a NewAger and his multiple associations with Oprah Winfrey (AKA the "icon of church-free spirituality") are but one piece of evidence of it. I'll be writing about this later.

Penny said...

"Why does 'IT' matter"?

Cause you ain't 'IN' if you don't 'WIN'.

When will voters realize that WE are responsible for the obfuscated "truths" we get from our politicians?

No President can possibly be all things to all people, but that is the kind of idiotic rhetoric we expect from our candidates before we get off our butts to vote.

WTF?

Pick the one or two things that matter most to you, then hammer down to find out if your candidate will reliably deliver on those one or two things.

D.) All of the above

Well, sorry folks, "D", it's just not a REALISTIC option. How could it possibly be...unless our favorite candidate...um...(D)id nothing, or (D)odges and (D)arts...or uses language to (D)ivert?

If we are hell bent to focus on "D", then how about we take some time to focus on the gift of (D)emocracy.

Stop squandering your vote on

(D.) All of the above

bagoh20 said...

Obama is keen and really swell. What else do you need to know?

bagoh20 said...

"the icon of church-free spirituality"

I think that's Jesus, but Oprah is a close second.

Penny said...

Bagoh, religion and spirituality, and even lack thereof, are "personal"...

Except, of course, when we are so moved to make them everyone else's business...

That's called "politics".

Penny said...

"That's called "politics"."

Or muddy waters?

Ha ha Those old blues guys had it all figured out...

prairie wind said...

Obama believes in Obama and he thinks that's the same as being a Christian. Maybe better.

Big Mike said...

Pretty good piece of analysis, Professor.

But the key take-away in my (atheist) mind is that he can't be a practicing Christian and skip church on Christmas can he? I mean, not unless he's dying or something, right? It's not like he and Michelle can't afford babysitters.

I don't know that that's bad -- one can be an atheist and still be an honest and upright man. Or at least I hope I can be described as honest and upright. But if some people saw Obama's 20-year attendance at Trinity as meaning that he was a solid, practicing Christian then I suspect they're being disabused.

Whether that accounts for some large fraction of the putative 20% is at this point unanswerable.

mRed said...

It does matter if Obama is a Muslim. Being a Muslim is not being a Catholic, Episcopal, Jewish or Baptist. Being Muslim is a departure from understanding and acceptance of others. Most offensive is that he plays the issue. On the issue of religion alone Obama has shown he is not trustworthy, thus not acceptable as a president. It is not a sad commentary that his religion should be stated (or questioned), it is a sad commentary that he can't thus he is questioned.

prairie wind said...

Big Mike, an old neighbor was a devout Christian. Church twice on Sundays and every Wednesday night and he could pray the varnish off the dining room table. But on Christmas, he was home...unless it fell on a Sunday or Wednesday. He said the Bible doesn't tell us when Christmas is, so we shouldn't celebrate it. Or something like that. I didn't ask a lot of questions about it...because sanctimonious pricks aren't much fun to talk to.

This story isn't meant to explain anything about Obama, just to respond to your post about Christmas.

The Crack Emcee said...

I just got home - haven't started blogging yet - but I'll ask again:

Can you name one policy of Obama - excepting national security - that doesn't square with NewAge?

Just one.

I know it sometimes sounds like I'm beating a dead horse but, damn it, that nag keeps getting up and galloping.

Flexo said...

The celebration of Christmas has long been considered to be a treasonous Papist practice. In fact, the celebration was even outlawed in some places on fundamentalist Christian grounds.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

he seems oriented toward leveraging the religious beliefs of the people for worldly, political ends.

Right. Because what good is religion if it actually has any relevance to concepts of justice, morality, charity, proper action, and ultimately the lives of people right here, right now, living on Planet Earth?

Absolutely nothing, I tell ya!

(Oh wait. That's the speech for the Fox News crowd.)

Paul said...

Rialby said...So, the better question to ask AND answer is... is Jeremiah Wright really a Christian? Or, as a former member of the Nation of Islam, could he be practicing taqiyya?

Is there evidence that Jeremiah Wright was once a NoI member?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I know it sometimes sounds like I'm beating a dead horse

Yeah. You are.

This just also in: Obama and New Age people also have 46 chromosomes, tend to be idealistic, speak English, and live in America. Now some might say that's all just a coincidence, but I'm hoping Crack'll give me the conspiracy theory angle to it.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

So, the better question to ask AND answer is... is Jeremiah Wright really a Christian? Or, as a former member of the Nation of Islam, could he be practicing taqiyya?

Taqiyyah is a concept relevant to Shi'ite Muslims, Rialby. Not Sunnis. You need to get your varieties of Islamaphobic ignorance straightened out.

Or maybe, just maybe, in a bizarre twist, the Obama family came not from Kenya, but Iran. Or Lebanon.

The ignorance burns. It burns! But keep pretending you're ready to run America and the world with it. Keep that part going. The desire, the fear, the lack of knowledge. Them's a potent combination.

Rialby said...

Paul - I got that from a New Republic piece. Ask Ryan Lizza where he got it from.

Rialby said...

Additionally - I do know that Wright receives security occasionally from the Nation of Islam. Not sure what that means.

Rialby said...

Ritmo - you're wrong.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Rialby,

Name a source (other than a nondescript passage in Wikipedia) or an actual Sunni Muslim theologian who has endorsed taqiyyah.

Ken Pidcock said...

If you want to find out more generally whether Americans are willing to accept non-Christian candidates, show me how they respond to a candidate who doesn't purport to be a Christian.

Yeah, right.

Rialby said...

From a pro-Jeremiah Wright set of talking points:

* Dr. Wright is a student of the history of religions. His master’s degree from the University of Chicago is in that discipline and his area of concentration as an historian of religions was Islam in West Africa. While a student at the University of Chicago (U of C) he studied with the esteemed Islamic professor, Dr. Fazlur Rahman.
* Dr. Wright’s Master’s thesis at the Divinity School of the U of C was the Tijaniyya among the Bambara, the Fulbe and the Tuckolour. The Tijaniyya was a 19th Century Sufi movement (a sect of Sufism) which swept into West Africa during the period of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade.
* In 1984, Rev. Dr. Wright was invited to join an interfaith delegation to visit Libya in celebration of its 15th Jamahiriya. He did so. He did not meet with, nor has he ever met with President Kadaffi, and he had to leave the delegation a week early to satisfy other family commitments.

Rialby said...

Mohammad Sayed al-Sahaf

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Perhaps this is the wrong question:

Am I allowed to question Reverend Jeremiah Wright's credentials for your representation of him as a Sunni Muslim theologian? Or is he lying about being a Christian too?

There really is a conspiracy behind everything to your mind, isn't there?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Rialby:

Did you not realize that in your purge of J. Wright, nothing in the descriptive "talking points" you quote even mentions "taqiyyah"? Perhaps you confused that word with another word in the quote: "Tijaniyya".

I'll get to fisking your second response in short order.

Rialby said...

From the bumpersticker liberalism common here in my town to your ears Ritmo:

QUESTION EVERYTHING...

Rialby said...

Purge... wow. I thought only supermodels and old Stalinists like yourself still purged anything.

Rialby said...

Btw Ritmo - my conversations are multi-threaded. Not every response is aimed your narcissistic presence on this blog.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Ok Sahaf. Now you're talking. That guy was hilarious. He lied almost as pathologically as some on the right do. Nothing to say religion had anything to do with it - in either one of those cases. Moreover, he wasn't lying about anything having to do with fear of religious persecution.

What other bs did you want to peddle tonight?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

And I mention fear of religious persecution because that is part of the definition of taqiyyah.

Anything else you forgot to question?

Rialby said...

Your parentage. 1st cousins?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Btw Ritmo - my conversations are multi-threaded. Not every response is aimed your narcissistic presence on this blog.

That's fine. But just because others aren't going to pick up on what you either flubbed or lied about (hmmm.... "taqiyyah", perchance?) doesn't mean that I won't. Please get used to it.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Or we can question your morals and standards. None?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Dude. You've been fisked. Twice. In short order. Shorter than that close-cropped hair-do. It's nothing to get personal about at this point. I just hate people lying or peddling willful ignorance to further a lame political point.

Have a good night.

Penny said...

"I just hate people lying or peddling willful ignorance to further a lame political point."

Oh, bullshit. You don't hate anyone, Ritmo.

You've just chosen to take on the guise of the "Mouthy Loner".

Dontcha know that politics and the internet is ALL about connecting?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Get a clue, Penny. The people worth connecting with are the ones who aren't interested in lying or willfully peddling ignorant bullshit. The ones how are - I enjoy calling them out. I don't enjoy what they do.

I apologize if it's difficult for you to "connect" with the idea of accuracy being a worthy standard when it comes to characterizing what people sincerely believe.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

BTW, re: accuracy, I love this Wiki quote on Sahaf:

When asked where he had got his information he replied, "authentic sources—many authentic sources".[11] He pointed out that he "was a professional, doing his job".

LOL.

Penny said...

"He pointed out that he "was a professional, doing his job."

"No doubt", she replied.

And your "prize"?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

BTW, Sahhaf is Shi'ite.

QED!

Taken together all this must count as the biggest instance of pwning in the history of pwnage.

Rialby: A man of few words. And for good reason. If he spoke more, he'd more closely resemble Sahhaf.

Take a breather, man. And then take a vacation. Are you a traveling salesman or something? Perhaps the hours are getting to you.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

"Obama put forth that he is a Muslim?"

Yes ... yes he has.

Barry used to prefer his Christian name ... but chooses now instead to use a Muslim name. He made that choice as an adult. He insists of everyone around him that they refer to by a Muslim name now.

So he is in fact, "putting forth" as you say, that he is a Muslim.

Also, it was Barack Obama himself who released records which revealed his Muslim upbringing in Indonesia.

So, no ... it wasn't some shadowy group of conspiracists who "started this rumour."

Barack Obama insists every day that he is a Muslim.

Ralph L said...

He's a dessert topping
No, he's a floor wax

He's a dessert topping and a floor wax.

The Crack Emcee said...

Hey, everybody, Ritmo's back!

"Obama and New Age people also have 46 chromosomes, tend to be idealistic, speak English, and live in America. Now some might say that's all just a coincidence, but I'm hoping Crack'll give me the conspiracy theory angle to it."

Ahh, so it's just a coincidence ALL OF HIS POLICIES jibe with NewAge?

And it's just a coincidence his most significant spiritual relationship is with Oprah - not the Islam everybody's so obsessed with? That she knew him before he ran, they both left Trinity, she fundraised for him at her house, stumped with him, spent his birthday with him, and every major NewAger (many of whom are connected to Her Highness) supports him?

I don't think you even understand the meaning of the word coincidence. Or even conspiracy theories - Tell me:

What could be conspiratorial about thinking Leftists accept the dominant spiritual belief of the Left?

HDHouse said...

SteveR said...
"You're not original, funny, interesting or thought provoking, but rather, just tiresome."

Yes I am. Yes I am. Yes I am. No I'm not.

Glad to clear that up for you Steve.

former law student said...

But the key take-away in my (atheist) mind is that he can't be a practicing Christian and skip church on Christmas can he?

Protestants are free from the papist requirement to attend church services on Holy Days of Obligation.

former law student said...

It’s a sad commentary that even Obama's true believers, those thrilled by his speeches and impressed by his autobiographies, are stymied by the simple query about what faith the president observes.

Reminds me I had thought that Reagan was a Christian till I found out he was divorced and remarried in direct contravention of Matthew 19:3-11

AlphaLiberal said...

Ann? Are you seriously questioning what faith Obama has? You are seriously getting into that gutter?

"Does Obama's past association with Trinity Church prove that he was (and is) a Christian?"

Yes. Yes, you are.

Michael said...

Alpha: Why and how did Obama "slip up" and use the phrase "my Muslim faith" in a nationally broadcast interview with George Stephanopolis? I am sure he is a Christian, but what possible explanation could you or anyone give to that faux pas? Because he is, after all, the smartest, best, most well educated President ever. How could he have made such a slip?

Fen said...

AlphaLibtard: Ann? Are you seriously questioning what faith Obama has?

What faith is Obama? Do you even know? Provide facts to support.

You are seriously getting into that gutter?

Coming from you? Hysterical. You live in that gutter.

Michael said...

FLS: Which reminds me of the time that Reagan said he was a Hindu but had to be corrected by Rush.

Duncan said...

But don't you find it suspicious that he attended Punahou School in Hawaii -- founded by Congregationalist (that is Puritan) missionaries from New England -- and then joined Trinity United Church of Christ -- the largest congregation in the United Church of Christ (that is, the merged Congregationalists and Reformed churches).

So he's clearly a Puritan.

Of course since the Puritans lacked the control provided by the Magisterium, they got a bit frisky and created both the Unitarians and the UCC which are the two most liberal mainline Protestant denominations. For both of these denominations, belief in God is optional so I guess atheism is a definite possibility for Barry which means he's lying, of course.

Dad and mom and grampa and gramma were godless atheistic communists themselves so atheism is probably the way to bet.

Barry shows some signs of risk of future conversion to Islam, however.

joetote said...

In his own words from his book, the president makes it extremely clear where his loyalties lie! “ Quote from Obama’s book: Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction..'"

The man's religion aside, his loyalties are clear and they are in fact extremely pro Muslim. Or could it be that as in his entire presidency so far, his own words in his own book are also just a bald faced lie?