July 23, 2010

"I don't think you can be a journalist and carry water for a politician, and that's what they were doing: 'Here's the line on Palin.'"

"These are political hacks, and I think they should stop calling themselves journalists. It discredits the rest of us."

So said Tucker Carlson, quoted in a Howard Kurtz analysis of the Journolist leaks on The Daily Caller.

Kurtz concludes: "None of this quite adds up to a Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, and there is no reason to believe that some conservative commentators don't have similar discussions. But there is no escaping the fact that some of the list's liberal literati come off sounding like cagey political operatives."

79 comments:

Doug Wright said...

Kurtz comes across as a Socialist hack, even a fool! Of course, those nice sweet little Journolist people looked so cute with the tingle going up their legs and the sweet adoring glances at their messiah. They must feel so good about their standup cheers in Denver, their adoration in Grant Park, their cheering on Obama, who had such vast and deep experience running campaigns.


Jeez, sell your newspaper amd broadcast media stock now or else use it to wallpaper your outhouse.

Cheers.

edutcher said...

Ann Althouse said...

Kurtz concludes: "None of this quite adds up to a Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy

It's Left-wing, it's vast, it's a conspiracy.

Works for me.

These clowns get caught and they still think they can bluff their way out. Those days are gone forever.

mesquito said...

Well, plotting to accuse some prominent conservative of racism to distract ettention from Obama's nutjob preacher is pretty loathesome, creepy and unethical.

Even Althouse Liberals would agree with that, wouldn't they

rhhardin said...

So long as they write something every day, they're journalists.

mesquito said...

"Did I Get ‘Journolisted’?"

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/did-i-get-journolisted/

bagoh20 said...

What does it take for leftists to admit failure in their ranks? The criticism has been tepid from that side.

Breitbart, who is no journalist, was criticized more for being stupid toward one person by the right this week than all these guys combined were from the left after displaying crass dishonesty and un-American disservice to our trust in a free and independent press. The absolutely valueless liberal standard.

El Pollo Real said...

It would fitting if Ezra gets pounded over this.

dbp said...

Howard Kurtz walking in a place with trees in every direction as far as the eyes can see: I see trees here and there, but one of this quite adds up to it being a Vast forest.

Later, Howard is out on the Steppes of Outer Mongolia: I cannot see any trees, but there is no reason to believe this land does not contain forests of trees.

HDHouse said...

I love bullshit posts on Friday night. Knocking Ms. Ya'betcha down to her size is just one of the great joys of life.

Let's all chant "villiage idiot".

I'm the village idiot..welcome ....>.

mesquito said...

Say, hdhouse? Did you ever find an example of an Althouse commenter quoting Michael Savage?

Lem said...

The response from these hacks will most likely be - so what?

They are Obamas.. female dogs and they are proud.

Joe said...

HDHouse I'm not much of a Palinista, but you know I'd vote for her just to watch your head explode, rheorically/metaphorically so to speak.

Trooper York said...

"mesquito said...
Well, plotting to accuse some prominent conservative of racism to distract ettention from Obama's nutjob preacher is pretty loathesome, creepy and unethical.

Even Althouse Liberals would agree with that, wouldn't they"

Dude, I know it is Friday night and all but are you really that drunk?

Eric said...

Well, plotting to accuse some prominent conservative of racism to distract ettention from Obama's nutjob preacher is pretty loathesome, creepy and unethical.

And yet even at the time it seemed pretty clear something like this had to be happening. The only real surprise in all of this is how brazen these people were.

AJ Lynch said...

Kurtz resorts to "the conservatives do it too" line of defense which is a derivation of of "well Bush did it too".

El Pollo Real said...

A stand-alone House makes a better target than a detached Garage.

bagoh20 said...

"Kurtz resorts to "the conservatives do it too"

Well, that's another lie. There is no conservative version of this coven. That kind of behavior isn't in the makeup of conservatives. They have other issues, but this crap is not one of them, not to mention there isn't enough prominent righty journalists for a circle jerk.

AJ Lynch said...

Trooper:

How about a contest to guess what the new nickname should be for Journolist 2.0?

I think Seven Machos nicknamed Journolist 1.0 The Juicebox Mafia.

mesquito said...

"Heathers."

AJ Lynch said...

I was thinking of Hanz & Franz and their "Girly Man" routine.


wv= smoni moni moni

Henry said...

Something jumped out at me from Daniel Schorr's New York Times obituary:

Mr. Schorr and Mr. Turner eventually fell out over a CNN plan to team John Connally, the former Texas governor and Nixon Treasury secretary, with Mr. Schorr as commentators at the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas.

It was improper, Mr. Schorr said, to mix a politician with a journalist, and he invoked for the first time the 1979 agreement allowing him to veto assignments.


Daniel Schorr died an anachronism, and in this way as much as any. Today we have openly left-wing Journolist journalists railing again the pointed questioning of a politician by a former White House message boy.

You can't tell the politicians and journalists apart now.

bagoh20 said...

The Obama Clown Posse

John0 Juanderlust said...

It is part of their philosophy that justifies behind the scenes scheming to defame and smear the enemy. They believe they know what is best for the masses, and what information is best for the masses. It is almost conspiracy by nature, but they feel not because it is their basic philosophy. Elitist rule. Of course they are part of the elite. Anyone who dissents is the enemy, and all stops are out in the battle. Good bye truth, decency, etc. But they will hold others to higher standard. Old trick.

AJ Lynch said...

It was quite a diverse group [no blacks and a couple or three women] so maybe The No Stripes.

knox said...

It would fitting if Ezra gets pounded over this.

LOL!

If only. I thought for sure he'd have been cut loose by now, if nothing else. Guess not.

AJ Lynch said...

I like that one Bago.

Lem said...

The only real surprise in all of this is how brazen these people were.

Rush says Liberals see themselves in power as the natural order of things.

Its beyond entitlement.

knox said...

None of this quite adds up to a Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, and there is no reason to believe that some conservative commentators don't have similar discussions. But there is no escaping the fact that some of the list's liberal literati come off sounding like cagey political operatives.

What a mincing, non-commital word dump.

I mean really. His "expertise" is the media, and this is the best he can do? He's either terribly biased himself or he has even lower expectations of journalists than I do!

Lem said...

A stand-alone House makes a better target than a detached Garage.

LOL.. liked that one.

campy said...

Ezra ... Pound-ed.

That was good.

knox said...

From the article:

Klein says there is no evidence that members collectively carried out the strategies being debated: "What would be disturbing is if people came to a conclusion together, and you looked the next day and it appeared in everyone's blog or everyone's column."

For god sakes, the media was nearly monolithic in the stories that were covered during the Obama campaign. From their attacks on Palin to their attacks on Wright--it couldn't have sounded more coordinated.

Mark O said...

"[T]here is no reason to believe that some conservative commentators don't have similar discussions."

Horseshit. There is evidence of liberals corrupting the system. In response, this fool suggests we should all conclude that everyone does it. Put up some evidence.

Indeed, all these folks should be subject to the Rules of Evidence.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

Kurtz: "None of this quite adds up to a Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy ..."

The fuck it doesn't.

400 of the nation's top journalists conspiring secretly to act in concert to enable the election of crooked Democrat Party hacks?

If that isn't a vast left-wing conspiracy, then what the fuck is?

dick said...

If Kurtz really thinks there is a conservative version of Journolist, then tell us about it and prove that they do. If not, then he is just blowing smoke trying to cover up.

Do these people really think that the public believes that this crew would email each other the way they do and not use this material in their writing? We already have seen how many of the left writers and pundits use exactly the same words over and over again, copying each other all the time. Now show me how the right does this. I haven't seen it.

What they remind me most of is a bunch of little kids egging each other on to be the most daring and come up with the worst names to call people. Despicable.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

Here's what had better happen at these fucking newspapers: they'd better fire these mother fuckers but fast before they find themselves in front of a judge waving a subpoena for the Journolist written records of malice aforethought.

Libel and slander are very difficult to prove ... unless you have journalists admitting they are secretly conspiring to slander people.

Then, it's a fucking slam dunk to prove.

These newspaper companies are now aware that their employees were conspiring secretly to act in concert. If they don't act to discipline these reporters, then they are condoning that behavior and that's not going to look very good in front of a jury.

Some Boards of Directors had better get to rolling some fucking heads. They have a fiduciary duty not to allow the employees to hijack public companies for private political aims.

traditionalguy said...

How does it go...power corrupts and total power corrupts totally. This cabal had dreams of joining the new Ruling Class by destroying the rival one. Robespierre ended up where they will soon end up. Palin and her friends' skill at using new media is leaving journoListed media in the dust. The missing element among that cabal and the Obamanites they worked for is loyalty up stream and down stream. Semper Fidelis is a motto that works in warfare a lot longer than everyman for himself to escape being thrown under the bus.

Trooper York said...

The Insufferable Bastards.

Christy said...

Maybe someone clever will mine the List and correlate suggestions with actual publications and broadcasts. Might make a terrific YouTube video. Or not. For example, look at who called out (or hinted at) Rove and Barnes as racists after the suggestion was made.

What particularly interests me is whether this changes the paradigm for demonstrating malice in libel and slander suits against media.

Trooper York said...

"They are Expendables"

Paco Wové said...

I love this double-negative stuff. There's no reason to believe that Kurtz doesn't operate a vast white slavery network out of his home, or sink the bodies of his enemies in the Potomac on moonless nights, or host Satanic rituals in Georgetown on the solstices, right?

HDHouse said...

mesquito said...
Say, hdhouse? Did you ever find an example of an Althouse commenter quoting Michael Savage?"

sure did butthead. everytime someone on here says Sarah is not an idiot.

Rialby said...

Howard, when did you stop beating your wife?

AST said...

If it weren't vast and left wing, it could never have laid the foundation for a conspiracy. These guys never quite realized that conspiring to help their own favored party and candidate wasn't very ethical, because they'd seen "journalists" reporting "in unison" for at least a generation.

I remember the shock I felt when I realized that "journalists," especially those in broadcasting, pretty much let the New York Times tell them what was and wasn't news, and nobody thought there was anything wrong with that.

Big Mike said...

Cagey? More like puerile.

edutcher said...

HDHouse said...

I love bullshit posts on Friday night. Knocking Ms. Ya'betcha down to her size is just one of the great joys of life.

Let's all chant "villiage idiot".


And yet her accomplishments dwarf HD's.

And there's only 1 'i' in village.

YA BETCHA!!!

Trooper York said...

"They are Expendables"

Sounds like disposable women's underwear.

Big Mike said...

Here's how David Corn, writing in Mother Jones characterized the membership of Journolist:

"... predominantly self-identified liberals writing or working for self-identified liberal outfits"

So I guess I should put the question to Howie Kurtz -- does David get it right with respect to employees of the Washington Post, both with respect to the Post' alleged ethical standards (see the April 5, 2009 column by the Post's ombudsman) and with respect to the Post's "self-identification"?

In other words are Ezra and his fellow travelers off the hook as far as the Post is concerned because they are all self-identified liberals and the Post itself is a "self-identified liberal outfit" not much different in orientation from, say, Mother Jones?

somefeller said...

bagoh20 says: There is no conservative version of this coven. That kind of behavior isn't in the makeup of conservatives. They have other issues, but this crap is not one of them, not to mention there isn't enough prominent righty journalists for a circle jerk.

Yeah, conservative writers would never organize their own listservs. That technological tool is only limited to liberals.

Michael said...

Kurtz is like lots and lots of these D.C. writer guys. He is not that smart. So since he can't say that conservative journalists do the same thing he says there is nothing that doesn't say they do the same thing. My head explodes that a grown man writes and thinks like a sophomore.

Quaestor said...

HD House wrote: "Let's all chant 'villiage idiot'."

And then links to Sarah Palin's video via his own blog. Bad form, old chap.

wv: chabit - A very small Chinese person with hairy feet and pointed ears.

Quaestor said...

edutcher wroter: "YA BETCHA!!!"

From his blog I gather HD House is an advertising/marketing consultant of some sort. From the sparkling wit he's displayed on these pages I can only surmise his product specialty is corset stays and hernia trusses.

wv: brymi - pidgin, meaning the topmost edge. Example: Fill me glassi tah di brymi, bossfellah.

jamboree said...

When I got out of undergrad school I went to one of my first adult city parties with all ages of hipper-than-thou professional sophisticates mixing it up.

I was talking to a 50ish man and he asked what I had majored in. I said "Journalism" and his first question was

"So are you a Democrat or a Republican?"

I'm surprised he even bothered adding Republican as an option. Of course they're political operatives, but I think they view it more in terms of righteousness. That's the little journalist fantasy narrative since the days of Woodward and Bernstein, Hunter S Thompson.

I didn't last long. I went out all charged up to find evil and expose it, and kept only finding regular flawed humans trying to do their sometimes very boring jobs. I figured that if I wanted to find what I was looking for I would have to basically make it up or spend my life trying instead of actually seeing people clearly.

In a way it was better to do something else, get close to the inner workings, and just write something about the reality (I'm thinking of Michael Lewis and Liar's Poker, here.) without this constant inner and outer pressure to spin, to make people evil who aren't to fulfill some drama in your head.

Brian said...

@HD:
I guess David Broder was quoting Savage here too?

Or is he a wingnut too?

Revenant said...

Yeah, conservative writers would never organize their own listservs.

As we have patiently explained to you many, many times, it isn't the "listserv" part that people are talking about when they say there is no conservative JournoList.

But don't worry, I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually.

William said...

One thinks of the old line about being too incompetent to organize a two car funeral down a one lane highway on Sunday afternoon. Their dark secret is not their malice but their puerility. Obama became President in spite of such support not because of it.

The Drill SGT said...

William said...
Their dark secret is not their malice but their puerility.


The word malice set me onto a different train of thought.

If a conservative could find a news article where he had been called racist by a known member of journalist, is that enough for a libel suit and a motion for discovery?

Since other employees of said paper were also members and arguably the Journolist was a professional activity, did that paper know or should have known about said conduct and be part and party to the defamation?

Eric said...

sure did butthead. everytime someone on here says Sarah is not an idiot.

Hey House, if you're gonna troll, stop phoning it in, willya? If there's one thing I can't stand it's a lazy troll.

Paco Wové said...

Be charitable. House is just doing the best he can with what few tools God gave him.

Mick said...

The "birther" epithet is also a product of this group. They are still protecting the Obama Eligibility issue to this day. If you notice, no where in the media is the issue that goes beyond place of birth discussed--that Obama's Kenyan father alone makes him ineligible. They make any referrence to eligibility about the Birth Certificate, and then Alinskyan ridicule. They will not allow discussion of the dual citizen at birth issue. Obama is a Usurper, put in place by the World Banker debt masters, and protected by the media.

SGT Ted said...

They Journolist dweebs should be renamed:

"Mean Girls"

GMay said...

Somefeller,

Your first link was broken.

Your second link, if it proves your point, could you please grab the proof out of that meandering apologist rant because I couldn't find it.

Your third, since you're citing it as proof, is something with which you agree in its entirety then? Such as the clear leftist bias of the WaPo?

Stan said...

In 1993, the Wash Post ombudsman said that the news media has been actively involved in political manipulation his entire career. His first assignment as a reporter for the Tennessean was to write a political speech for a Democratic candidate and then cover the speech for the paper. The examples of this type involvement are endless.

The news media set out to get Nixon, they got him, and the celebrated their victory. They determined to salvage Clinton's train wreck after the shock of Nov 94 and they did. They buried the swiftboat vets. They set out to get Bush on the Natl Guard and made it up when they found no evidence. They made up October Surprise and buried Clinton's sale of national security secrets.

Look at the false story on the "n" word at the Capitol. The story was written before the Congressmen ever walked. The story keeps getting repeated even though it's been proven false.

Sur, there's a lot of unconscious liberal cheerleading. But there's reams and reams of evidence of active conspiracy, too.

GMay said...

No Mick, the "birther" epithet is because of dickheads like you who have to make your issue everyone else's issue in every fucking thread you decide you take a shit on.

Mick said...

GMay said...
"No Mick, the "birther" epithet is because of dickheads like you who have to make your issue everyone else's issue in every fucking thread"


Nice, but I don't particularly care if you disagree, and never rise to the level of personal attack like you. I simply provide the truth, and it sets me free. To liars and deniers like you the truth is like acid in your eyes. Obama's Kryptonite, that which will bring him down, is already apparent and admitted. He was born a dual citizendue to his father's Kenyan (British) citizenship. For that reason he is certainly not an eligible Natural Born citizen. The scuttling of the dual citizensip at birth issue is a main objective of the Leftist political hack media.
Natural Born Citizens are Naturallly occurring citizens, those born in the US of 2 US Citizen parents.

GMay said...

Mick gushed: "I simply provide the truth, and it sets me free."

That was beautiful man.

You've inspired me to let my dog go free so I can see if it really loves me and comes home.

wv: unpology - what Sarah Spitz offered

Richard Dolan said...

"I don't think you can be a journalist and carry water for a politician ..."

There is something to the distinction between honest observer and partisan hack, but not nearly as much as Carlson wants it to have. Most newspapers in the US began as partisan broadsheets, and most of them still have an element of that. Some are better than others at keeping the partisan view on the Op-Ed page, but none of them accomplishes that completely. So what. And, if it matters, it's much more blatant elsewhere -- the papers in London and Paris are quite openly identified with political parties.

Can you be a journalist and carry water for a particular way of looking at the world, or understanding the society or economy we live in? If so (and I don't see how it could be otherwise), what's the problem with 'carrying water' for a politician who sees the world in the same way and wants to do something about it? What's so hack-y about it if you think the pol is right? Is it carrying water for a politician to write favorably about the progress or merits of a policy identified with him? Say, Bush with the war in Iraq, or Gingrich with welfare reform, or Scalia and originalism?

Rather than always making things turn on perceived agendas (of course they are there) and intentions (ditto), it's much better to assess the persuasiveness of what someone (even a journalist) has to say -- how well does it account for what I see (which may be very different from what the reporter says he sees).

somefeller said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
somefeller said...

My point was a simple one, GMay, and that was to refute the idea that some have stated here (including the person I cited) that conservatives don't (or won't, because they are too good and pure for that) have their own listservs where ideas are hashed out and agendas are pushed and promoted. That's all. The links I cite all refer to conservative listservs, and the people who wrote the articles on the links are either conservative journalists, activists or both.

And for what it's worth, I think the Journolist group, while not exactly rising to the level of dread conspiracy that a lot of conservatives want it to (Tucker Carlson himself - his Daily Caller has been the one opening the files - said it was mostly pretty banal), looks like a chickenshit club of writers and activists patting themselves on the back about how cool and exclusive they are. Which is to say, it looks like a lot of groups on the left and right, and in apolitical circles as well.

As far as the first link being broken, it was working last night when I posted it and the whole site may be down right now.

GMay said...

somefeller,

Do you or do you not agree with the third link you posted that the WaPo is definitely biased to the left?

HDHouse said...

I don't think Kurtz has much to do with being an esteemed journalist without partisanship and it is strange that he has his nose out of joint on that particular point. Tucker Carlson is who he is.

Now if we can just hear from Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter on this issue to set us straight...

HDHouse said...

GMay said...
.".. that the WaPo is definitely biased to the left?"

If you are equating "left" with standards and fact reporting and truth...guilty as charged.

somefeller said...

Do you or do you not agree with the third link you posted that the WaPo is definitely biased to the left?

I'd say the Washington Post is biased in favor of whoever is in power in Washington at the time, and in favor of whatever is perceived as acceptable Beltway opinion at the time.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

Carlson's List:

Klein
Ackerman
Bernstein
Rozen
Hirsch
Stein
Rosenberg
Lerer
Weigel
Zasloff
Cohn
Goldstein
Fernholz
Perlstein
Alterman
Judis
Levy
Adler
Cohen
Bauman

Where have I seen this movie before?

GMay said...

somefeller,

So you don't agree with your own source. Gotcha.

Care to explain how the WaPo went after McDonnel mercilessly during his campaign when that had fuckall to do with Washington?

GMay said...

HDHouse said: "If you are equating "left" with standards and fact reporting and truth...guilty as charged."

Coming from a guy who lies his ass off about holding nine patents, I'd say you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you upside the head with a Hero of the Soviet Union medal.

Mick said...

GMay said,

"That was beautiful man. "

I know, and you aid and abet the lefts obfuscation of why this putative President is ineligible, just like all the rest of the idiot "Republicans". McCain and Obama were both ineligible Non Natuiral Born Citizens. Conservatives whine and complain about Obama but won't use the one thing that would stop him dead in his tracks. In due time...

GMay said...

No Mick, no. Please give me another one of your Jim Carrey moments.

somefeller said...

So you don't agree with your own source. Gotcha. Care to explain how the WaPo went after McDonnel mercilessly during his campaign when that had fuckall to do with Washington?

I cited that source merely to show an example of a conservative journalist stating he was part of a conservative listserv. The substance of his arguments on other issues was neither relevant to my point or of any interest to me.

Regarding the Post and McDonnel, I'm assuming you are referring to the Governor's race in Virginia. I didn't follow that race in the Post, so I have no opinion about its coverage. However, it's not surprising that the Post would take a keen interest in the race, considering much of its readership lives in northern Virginia.

Tscottme said...

It would have been nice when Kurtz denied JournoList was a vast left-wing conspiracy what was he objecting to? Was Kurtz denying the list reached the definition of "vast?" Was he denying the participants were "left-wing?" Or was he denying their coordination of views amounted to a "conspiracy?"

In what way is what we now know about JournoList anything but proof of a vast, left-wing conspiracy?

Kurtz's denial reminds me of the talk radio hosts which can rail against Obama's radical past, his radical association, his radical actions, and the radical effects of Obama policies. However, if a caller suggests Obama is radical, and not just ignorant of the predictable effects of radical plans, the host quickly denies Obama is radical and moves on to the next caller. Hugh Hewitt is the best example of this practice. His identity is that of the 'center-right" host that won't permit himself to say any WTF policy of Obama is due to anything but naive liberal good intentions. If I hear one more supposed conservative saying "but don't liberals know...", and then proceed to explain why raising taxes in a recession is bad, or why disarming in the face of an enem is wrong, I'm going to scream.

The only liberals that don't already know what happens when you make it more difficult and expensive to do business during a recession are the liberals that willfully ignore the past, ignore the often repeated consequences of their plans, and are willing to burn this country to the ground to remake it in their image. Yet, too many luke-warm conservatives think if they just explain carefully enough and often enough the technical details and the plain history of failure of liberal ideas then the liberal will change their mind. JournoList proves leftists are willing to deny reality, make false charges against others, and they are immune from logical political thought.

It's beyond the time to stop jumping to the more comfortable conclusion and time to allow the radical conclusion if that is where the evidence points. There is no real benefit in fooling yourself about what is going on in the world.

GMay said...

Somefeller,

WaPo not only slants heavily toward Democrats in their editorial endorsements, they did their absolute best to torpedo McDonnel's campaign. He isn't in Washington and he's a Republican.

I just use that one example of innumerable ones to illustrate that the WaPo has an institutional slant to the left, since you made a demonstrably false assertion that the WaPo blows with the winds of Washington.