July 22, 2010

Accused of frigidity, I push back.

The accusation.

The pushback.

AND: Here's the Hattie Carroll stuff in the same comments thread. And here's my parody of the Bob Dylan song, written upon the death of William Zantzinger (of Zanzinger, if you prefer) in January 2009. And, by the way, "The Bob Dylan song that turned on Jimmy Carter is the one that Barack Obama calls a favorite."

146 comments:

Michael said...

Ouch! Well done. I expect Gregory smiles extra hard at every black person who crosses his path. Larry David did and admits it.

The Hattie Carrol analogy is too good.

alan markus said...

Must say, one doesn't hear much about "frigid" women anymore. That seems so "80's ish"

bagoh20 said...

I'm neither "frigid" nor "ultra-sympathetic". I don't have a problem with a little racism in my Americans. It's fairly evenly distributed today. It's all the sqwaking about it that is irritating. Like a flock of ducks quacking about who's feet are the biggest. Racial policies in government are still a problem, but not individual racists.

Paddy O said...

What's interesting about all those comments is they can't just defend Sharrod. There's definitely a cause there that I can understand, so that would make sense.

They have to, oddly, not only defend her but also attack you. As if they can't see themselves doing the very thing they are angry at.

That it was put in the guise of pseudo-sensitive language makes it more, rather than less, scary. It's an authoritarian impulse that wants to silence conversation--for the sake of peace and gentleness, of course.

bagoh20 said...

As to the BS about blaming this on FOX, even the LA Times who hates them, has reported:

"Sherrod ended up resigning Monday afternoon, hours before O’Reilly broke the story on his show. The first reported piece on Fox News, by correspondent James Rosen, aired on Tuesday morning, and included a second video clip that added context to Sherrod’s comments."

shoutingthomas said...

I don't know Shirley Sherrod or Ann personally. So, I haven't got a clue about their moral natures.

I also don't care about whether things are correctly ordered according to feminism or PC racial dogma.

But, really, Sherrod makes a lot of money and she's a public figure. Intense criticism is part of the deal.

She doesn't look like she's a fragile lamb. She engineered a huge lawsuit that delivered plenty of money to "her people" and deposited a large chunk in her own bank account.

And, who in the hell hasn't been called a racist? The Journolist guys didn't think it was such a big deal to call other people racists.

We can't seem to give up the PR fairy tale of the civil rights era: whites, especially southern whites, are evil demons and blacks are sainted martyrs.

bagoh20 said...

We should know by now that racism or it's proxy is here to stay. It's tribalism, and it's basic. Even if we excoriate each other for it until it's unsafe to expose even to friends, it will just be supplanted by some other tribal identity fight. We need it. I suspect that this is behind the ridiculous degree of political division in our people today. Us versus them is what we are about. Individually we get past it when we see this for what it is. Kumbaya!

Paul Zrimsek said...

To sit behind a desk and taking advantage of a large audience slice in this 'but she's not perfect' way at someone who not only can but has been within mere days severely and unfairly punished for the effort speaks to a rather incredible ugliness of spirit, a spiteful glee in trying to harm others simply because you can.

Two words: Bulwer. Lytton.

Big Mike said...

Women are still falling for that "you must be frigid" line?

LarsPorsena said...

@Paul:

"Two words: Bulwer. Lytton."

LOL!!

John Stodder said...

Andrew Breitbart and Shirley Sharrod.

Two mixed-up kids who stumbled momentarily in the grand parade of American life.

Yeah, I'm frigid too, I guess. I don't find Sharrod's story particularly uplifting. I'm just sad that in 2010, anyone as intelligent as she is, with the responsibilities she has, would have to come to Jesus on the question of bigotry. MLK Jr. didn't write his line about "the content of our character" two weeks ago. It's been part of the American credo since she was very young. Shame on her for failing to embrace it for so many years of her adult life.

At the same time, I think what Breitbart did to her, and the ensuing actions by the Obama Administration, are nauseating, literally. I'm feeling queasy as I write this as I have felt queasy ever since I heard about it. I was generally approving of what Breitbart was doing, but hearing him interviewed, I always had the feeling he was playing with dynamite and though it was a pop gun. He needs some time in the woodshed, a lot of time. I won't look at his site for awhile, at least not until he owns up fully to his misdeeds here. And whoever instructed Vilsack to sack Sharrod should be publicly exposed and fired.

Finally, frigid is not a word I would ever use for Ann Althouse. I recognize she can be exacting. But she also exudes warmth, and I'm touched by her, your, open expressions of fondness for your new husband and for your sons.

AJ Lynch said...

How about a poll to guess how many days [or hours] before the next shoe drops re Shirley Sherrod?

El Pollo Real said...

Good for you Althouse. I'm on your side on this one.

nobody said...

Ann,

There is no "incident of blatant race discrimination, which she relates to an adoring crowd as part of a story of her personal growth" to talk about. You are seeing things that are not there.

Paul Zrimsek said...

"As usual, the fickle, unreasoning world took Muff Potter to its bosom and fondled him as lavishly as it had abused him before. But that sort of conduct is to the world's credit; therefore it is not well to find fault with it." -- The Adventures of Tom Sawyer

Trooper York said...

The only way to refute this henious accusation of frigidity is to release the tape.

Trooper York said...

You know the one that Meade made.

Trooper York said...

Hey it worked for Danielle Staub.

Trooper York said...

You know the tape I mean.

Trooper York said...

The one with the squirrel.

Original Mike said...

Isn't this really an attack on Meade?

bagoh20 said...

As she talks more, I can see that I don't like much she has in her head, but it seems apparent that she did not do any harm to that farmer, and in fact, did much more to help them than anyone else, including those of "his own kind."

Michael said...

John Stodder: What did Andrew Briebart do to poor Shirley other than make her a star? The original "edited" tape send out by Briebart clearly had the exculpatory part of her speech in it. It should have been clear to any viewer that the speech would go on to expand her tale of redemption, of learning that class and capital trumped racism in the down-and-out game. The exculpatory piece was at the end, but it was there and this whole deal wouldn't have focused on her had people observed where the speech was headed. Briebart was hoping that attention would be focused on the NAACP reaction to the racial connotations at the core of the released tape.

Briebart is a very healthy counterpoint to the rest of the media and is at least up front about what he is trying to do. If you want nauseating read some of the "insights" the journolist members were providing to ensure the election of a particular person as President of the United States of America.

Trooper York said...

Of course it is an attack on Meade.
Who goes around calling a newlywed frigid unless they are looking for a fight.

DADvocate said...

Your attacker, Gregory, sounds like a paid assassin. On my blog, ever so often, I get a commenter out of the blue who disagrees with me, tries to make a rational argument but includes insults as well.

I believe such commenters may well be part of a liberal group who systematically visit opposition blogs to make counter-comments and attacks. Their tone is too detached and phrasing too stilted to sound genuine.

The pretense that he knows your life experiences and deems them lacking next to Ms. Sherrod's is overwhelming.

HT said...

"Ultra" sympathetic? Why not just "sympathetic?" Is there no room for nuance here? Must we be on one side or the other? Why?

I'm not going to comment anymore about Ann's characterization of this thing since it is ongoing and every minute there is something new. What I feel about how people are using this or that to advance their own agenda has been said before by others. No need to repeat it.

But the directive to put a white man in her place, sure. I'll be happy to. And also happy to, in terms of HR procedures, give him the benefit of the doubt and say no way in hell should he be fired (said it now about 5 times). And why must it be a man, by the way?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

And why must it be a man, by the way?


Quota?

nobody said...

http://www.federationsoutherncoop.com/

http://www.federationsoutherncoop.com/mission.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_of_Shirley_Sherrod

Trooper York said...

What's the big deal anyway?

This governmental grifter will be back sucking on the Treasury teat before you know it!

With another "settlement" for her "pain and suffering."

Trooper York said...

$150,000 for pain and suffering my ass.

nobody said...

Because of discriminatory lending practices, black farmers were losing their farms in the late 1960s and '70s. After college, Sherrod co-founded New Communities Inc., a black communal farm project in Lee County, Georgia, that was modeled on kibbutzim in Israel. Local white farmers viciously opposed the 6,000-acre operation, accusing participants of being communists and occasionally firing shots at their buildings, Sherrod said.

"They did everything they could to fight us," she said.

When drought struck the South in the 1970s, the federal government promised to help New Communities through the Office of Economic Opportunity. But the money was routed through the state, led by segregationist Gov. Lester Maddox, and the local office of the Farmers Home Administration, whose white agent was in no hurry to write the checks, she said.

It took three years for New Communities to get an "emergency" loan, she said.

"By the time we got it, it was much too late," Sherrod said.


http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/21/sherrod.profile/#fbid=6ms_Dfy2szI

AJ Lynch said...

From Victor David Hanson:

"His (Obama's) two-decade apprenticeship at Trinity United Church of Christ under the racist and anti-Semitic Rev. Jeremiah Wright has never been adequately explained. Obama indulged in racial stereotyping himself when he wrote off the white lower-middle class of Pennsylvania as clueless zealots clinging to their guns, religion, and xenophobia."

AllenS said...

Trooper,

Did you read my comment from this morning about the money I received?

Trooper York said...

Yes I did Alan. And I don't begrudge you the dough. I mean I saw what Agarn and O'Rourke used to do to Bald Eagle all the time.
They really ripped you guys off.

But one question? Did you get any of that good casino money?

nobody said...

No, Ann, you are not frigid, but your misreading goes beyond ungenerous: the notion that she ever said she discriminated against the farmer is simply a fantasy, a collective delusion. She never said any such thing.

Mark said...

So, how many pressers has Sharrod done since her drive-by forced-resignation?

I'm seeing lecture circuit, baby!

AllenS said...

If I want casino money, I have to do it the old fashioned way, I have to earn it.

Trooper York said...

But listen, I have a great idea about a smoke shop. If I make you the owner of a store on Court St and we make it an offical "reservation" we can sell smokes without any tax. Like those dudes on Long Island, the
Shinnipullcocks or something like that there.

We will be printing money.

Mark said...

nobody, the whole point of her "epiphany" or what have you was that she realized her actions WERE discriminatory; without that, there is no "redemption" - or, to put it another way, there isn't anything different in the edited version (which some guy named Jealous thought looked pretty bad, and was enough to get her canned from the Obama Administration New Chicago School style) and the unedited one.

Why are you being obtuse? Not to mention verbose, long-time lurker?

Amartel said...

The for-ladies-only disparagement terminology is just so precious! Hey, Greggo, do you deploy any disparaging terms just for black people? When some Indian says something that doesn't seem quite right with your world view, do you call him Tonto and remark that he seems to have "wandered off the reservation"? Ya silly, sneering, spiteful, self-elevating (wha?), frigid schoolmarm. Own it, bitch.

Original Mike said...

"the notion that she ever said she discriminated against the farmer is simply a fantasy, a collective delusion. She never said any such thing."

I never know what to make of "the sky is orange" arguments. We can all see that the sky is blue.

AllenS said...

Tobacco no good. Maybe I could dance in front of your shop and make it rain?

AllenS said...

You could sell large umbrellas along with the bras.

AC245 said...

the notion that she ever said she discriminated against the farmer is simply a fantasy, a collective delusion. She never said any such thing.

Well, "nobody," you've certainly made the lie big enough, and you're definitely repeating it often enough. Let's see if eventually people start believing it.

(Inconvenient question: How do you defend your claim that she never discriminated against the farmer versus the competing claims that this tape shows the heartwarming tale of a redemption of a woman who overcame her racism to realize that she needed to help all people regardless of their skin color?)

Metamorf said...

I'm sympathetic to the woman, I'll admit, and don't need any help from Hattie Carroll for that. I also think Brietbart himself may well have "snookered" as they're saying now, but if so could have reacted a little better, such as by owning up to it. Because the problem now is that the whole Sherrod foofaraw has taken away from what was or should have been his main point -- that racial bias exists in all groupings of any size, including the NAACP. But that the use of racism as merely a blunt instrument with which to beat your political opponents is not just crude and desperate -- it threatens to trivialize the the issue itself.

nobody said...

Mark (or Ann or anybody else),

Where, in her speech, do you think you see her indicating that she "realized her actions WERE discriminatory"?

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/shirleysherrodnaacpfreedom.htm

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

"Like those dudes on Long Island, the
Shinnipullcocks or something like that there."

Oh, that's HDHouse' tribe, pretty sure.

nobody said...

""I didn't let that get in the way of trying to help."

"I didn't discriminate ... If I had discriminated against him, I would not have given him any help at all because I wasn't obligated to do it by anyone ... I didn't have to help that farmer. I could have sent him out the door without giving him any help at all."

"I did not discriminate against [the farmer]. And, in fact, I went all out to frantically look for a lawyer at the last minute because the first lawyer we went to was not doing anything to really help him. In fact, that lawyer suggested they should just let the farm go. The second attorney [was able to help the farmer] file Chapter 11 bankruptcy to help the family stay on the farm."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_of_Shirley_Sherrod

AC245 said...

Inconvenient question: How do you defend your claim that she never discriminated against the farmer versus the competing claims that this tape shows the heartwarming tale of a redemption of a woman who overcame her racism to realize that she needed to help all people regardless of their skin color?


"nobody"'s answer:

...

Michael said...

Nobody: Well, you make it 100%. It appears that the authority of all authorities for each and every progressive is Wiki. How fucking lame is that. And, of course, the Wiki entry is entirely self referential. I can see the progressive courts of the future relying on Wiki entries, created by defendants, in which defendants declare themselves innocent. How. Fucking. Funny. Do you believe your ears and eyes or do you believe Wiki?

The Crack Emcee said...

Flava Flav: "You're blind, baby. You're blinded by the facts of who you are because you're watching that garbage."

Nobody,

Give it up. Sharrod's whole story was that she learned not to discriminate - on race. (A journey I've traveled and know too well.) Unfortunately, now she goes for class warfare, which is just as sickening. Plus, I was just reading, this morning, about the ugly, paranoid things she was saying about the conservative FOX News on the ultra-liberal, and totally untrustworthy, Media Matters - all indicating she hasn't really learned anything, but is just replacing one target with another, because there has to be a target.

As far as I'm concerned, government employee or not, Sharrod still isn't an American yet - so, also as far as I'm concerned, Ann is correct and I thank her for her astute observation.

The woman is a cancer, deserving of being singled out, and embarrassed.

That she's now going to make out, financially, is to me tragic.

Jake said...

Well Ann, you should feel defensive. I also get a hoot that you are so quick to play the sexism card. Ooooh, poor baby, someone called you "frigid".

Ms. Sharrod had her father murdered when she was seventeen by white men which led her to be sensitive about race early in life. What happened to you Ann to justify your hiding behind the sexism charge? Did someone steal your Barbie? LOL

Pastafarian said...

I find myself stunned that I'm apparently in complete agreement with Althouse on an issue of racism and discrimination.

I, too, thought that Sherrod's defenders might be exhibiting that "soft bigotry of lowered expectations". Sherrod doesn't appear to be a vile person; but she did admit to discriminating against someone based on race.

I'm no angel -- far from it. But I honestly can't think of one time in my adult life that I consciously discriminated against someone based on race. Certainly there's never been a time where I discriminated when making a major decision or in a business setting. I don't know anyone who does, or at least who admits to it.

Now, I didn't go through the sort of hell that this woman did, growing up in the deep South, surrounded by racist (Democrat) whites who murdered her father. But that only explains her attitudes, it doesn't excuse them.

It's true that the over-arching message of her speech was the rejection of racism (in favor of class warfare) -- this was apparent from the original "edited" video. However, the language that she used ("his own kind"), and the way she expressed herself (seeming to savor, for example, the thought of wielding power over the white farmer when she was "deciding how much help to give him") left me with the impression that she still holds the same attitudes -- they've just been kept on a leash.

And I found the abuse of power aspect of her story just as disturbing as the racism. I've had to deal with little tyrant government bureaucrats before.

Now, I'm not sure if she needed to be forced to resign over this. The discrimination that she admits to was in another position, long ago. But I wasn't going to lose any sleep over her resignation and the loss of one more petty tyrant. And I don't think she deserves the promotion they're now giving her -- what the hell is that for?

AC245 said...

Hey, Jake (*), you should switch to your UW Law Babe sockpuppet when you throw around the sexism charges.


(* a.k.a. L.E.Lee
a.k.a. NotAHillbilly
a.k.a. UW Law Babe
a.k.a. Coffee Guy
a.k.a. Jimmy
a.k.a. coffee guy
a.k.a. Fiscal Conservative Guy
a.k.a. In The Mood
a.k.a. Holy Cow!)

Mark said...

And I don't think she deserves the promotion they're now giving her -- what the hell is that for?

She's getting promoted?

HA ha ha ha!

Well, what it's supposed to be for is to get her to shut up, I guess. But I also guess that's kind of a futile quest, considering....

shoutingthomas said...

Ms. Sharrod had her father murdered when she was seventeen by white men which led her to be sensitive about race early in life.

I've been trying to find a reliable source to verify this story.

This recounting seems at odds with others I've read which refer to a single white man who Sherrod believes was guilty but was not prosecuted.

A black man attempted to murder me when I lived in Ft. Greene Park in Brooklyn in 1978 or thereabouts. He followed me down the street, and pulled a knife on me. I was able to defend myself and escape.

What do I get for that.

The police responded. Back in that era of the crack epidemic, New York City was a madhouse of violence. The cops weren't very interested, but they did ask me whether I was carrying a gun.

"No," I responded.

"Well, you've got to be out of your fucking mind," they said. "If you're going to live here, you'd better arm yourself. By the time we get here, you'll bet dead."

So, should I be allowed some degree of racist hatred of blacks? How much?

shoutingthomas said...

Oh, and I left a bit out of this story.

Racial hatred was the motive for the black man's attack.

As he followed me down the street, he kept saying:

"What the fuck you doing in this neighborhood, white boy?"

Jake said...

Also Ann, you know that it is not that Shirley Sharrod is "Hattie Carrol" in Phil's original post that makes it work. Instead, Andrew Breitbart makes a perfect "William Zanzinger". The image of you holding his coat while he takes "aim with his cane" also could not have been more apt.

BTW, great job in playing the race card here. You are shameless in your double standards.

Pastafarian said...

"Jake", I find AC245's find a few comments above disturbing.

Are you male or female? I mean, "UW Law Babe" was clearly trying to come across as female. And "Jake" is a pretty unambiguously male name.

Perhaps you're confused. It makes me wonder whether you have a partially completed skin suit in your crawl space.

Doug Wright said...

Althouse, thanks for referring to Hattie Carroll. I was never a fan of Mumbles Dylan and during that long ago time I was working hard in college and several parttime jobs so news was not a priority unless we're invaded. Also, the Sherrood incident had many levels to examine and while Obama's crew looked at only one, you did raise questions about that 4-month old video.

Breitbart was concerned about the audience's response to Sherrod's speech, while some people here tried to downplay Sherrod's experiences as a young woman in the deep South. Her earlier life deserved much sympathy while her later life seemed to be much more mixed, including her initial racial stereotyping of her farmer clients.

Life is not simple and your blogs on Sherrod represent but a few examples of how we treat life. Keep doing what you do.

wv: hediate when possible, otherwise mediate.

Cheers.

rcocean said...

The rich libs will take care of her. Lecture circuit, tenured professor, possible lecture title "Fox News - the right-wing hate machine" She's got a nice life ahead of her. Remember, Anita Hill?

Pastafarian said...

So you're actually LE Lee. I remember you.

And I remember many of these other comments you've left under a dozen other names.

You're a really hate-filled person, "Jake". You should let it go, dude. Life is too short.

The Crack Emcee said...

O.K. you guys, I've really got to ask this:

Where do these loonies come from?!?

rcocean said...

And talk about false advertising, I thought this was about sexual frigidity!

WV: "geytess" - are you gay? Find out.

nobody said...

“How do you defend your claim that she never discriminated against the farmer versus the competing claims that this tape shows the heartwarming tale of a redemption of a woman who overcame her racism to realize that she needed to help all people regardless of their skin color?”

My claim is not that “she never discriminated against the farmer,” I said that there is no evidence that she never portrayed herself as discriminating against the farmer. And there isn’t. The notion that “the tape shows the heartwarming tale of a redemption of a woman who overcame her racism to realize that she needed to help all people regardless of their skin color” is a narrative frame that has been imposed on the content of the speech.

The incident in question, about 20 years after the murder of her father, apparently happened when she was working at an organization that exists specifically for “FIGHTING TO SAVE BLACK-OWNED LAND.” And then a white farmer shows up looking for help.

And what does she do? She helps him.

Again, where is the purported discrimination?

Pastafarian said...

It's actually pretty amusing that Jake, here attacking some of us as racists, is the same guy that used the term "hillbilly", a racist slur against Appalachian Americans, about a thousand times right here in these comments.

Maybe you think you're allowed to use that term because you're white, Jake. Is that it?

Pastafarian said...

"nobody", are you Jake, too?

nobody said...

Michael,

1. I am not a "progressive"

2. Okay, try here:

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1007/20/cnr.03.html

nobody said...

Pastafarian,

No.

Jake said...

Pastifarian, thank you for being my favorite tool today. You rock!

Lem said...

Althouse gets attacked for putting Sherrods words in context.

Lol..

Freeman Hunt said...

No, I don't think that not having a cow about someone almost doing something racist and then not doing it twenty years ago is patronizing.

knox said...

I find myself stunned that I'm apparently in complete agreement with Althouse on an issue of racism and discrimination.

LOL. Me too!

The Crack Emcee said...

Freeman, come on - you're smart - you gotta help me out here:

Where do these loonies come from?!?

Daniel said...

Some of you commenters who are ultra-sympathetic to Sherrod should examine whether you are being patronizing. Hattie Carroll? This is an intelligent, educated, powerful woman. You are seeing her as Hattie Carroll because she is black. You should be embarrassed... at the very least.

One commenter. One.

Or maybe Ann Althouse sure has a lot of anti-semitic commenters.

Lem said...

Freeman seriously.. If Sherrod was not a black woman (after that video played, even in its entirety) she would not have been on CNN.

AllenS said...

Crack,

They come from a place called the loony bin. You can look it up.

Lem said...

It has always appeared to me that there has been zero tolerance for anything remotely resembling racism..

But with Sherrod there should be an exception?

Why?

AC245 said...

One commenter. One.

You're really claiming that only one commenter fits Althouse's description of ultra-sympathetic to Sherrod, Daniel?

Okay, I'll bite. Which one commenter was ultra-sympathetic to Sherrod.

Pogo said...

My guess is the lunacy Crack sees on this blog, like Jake and 'nobody', are the simple result of a great modern success story: the long march through the institutions and absolute takeover of grade and high schools, universities, news shows, cartoons, movies, books, the courts, talk shows and music by leftists, New Agers modern liberals and fellow travelers.


And by "success story" I mean "complete clusterf*ck".

Lem said...

**sarcasm alert**

Unless we want to dig deep for the "upside" of racism.. The initial reaction to Sherrod was correct.

**sarcasm alert**

nobody said...

Pogo,

What 'lunacy' is there what I said? Where do you think you hear her saying she discriminated against anybody?

Pogo said...

nobody, I....

Ah, the hell with it. Just go away.

Daniel said...

Some of you commenters...Hattie Carroll? This is an intelligent, educated, powerful woman. You are seeing her as Hattie Carroll because she is black.

"You" is a reference to "some of you commenters". But only Phil brought up Hattie Carroll, which is the crux of Ann's counter racism charge.

Revenant said...

One commenter. One.

Phil, garage mahal, Bill Harshaw, roesch-voltaire, HDHouse, Youngblood, Doug Wright, Luke Lea, AM Daly, etc...

I suppose it is possible they're all one guy posting under a bunch of different aliases. We do get a lot of that around here.

Revenant said...

I'm pretty sure Hattie Carroll was mentioned by those bell-ringing right-wingers who are always quoting Sean Hannity around here.

Doug Wright said...

So, Irrev, what's your other alias. Mine used to be OldGrouchy but I'm much more mellow now. So, unless you're now an Obama agitator, chill out and get a life.

OTOH: Your humor is either sorely lacking or now has become twisted.

Cheers, for everyone else except you, jerk.

Freeman Hunt said...

Which one is more patronizing?

(1) Hyper defense of Sherrod.
(2) Supposed conservatives supporting Obama during the Presidential election.

Palladian said...

Pogo said... nobody, I....

Ah, the hell with it. Just go away.



I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you – Nobody – too?
Then there's a pair of us?
Don't tell! they'd advertise – you know!

Texan99 said...

Nobody said: 'There is no "incident of blatant race discrimination, which she relates to an adoring crowd as part of a story of her personal growth" to talk about. You are seeing things that are not there.'

OK, that's obviously insane. It was the whole point of the story, that first she "didn't exactly do all she could for him" (snicker, wink, audience murmurs in fully comprehending approval on camera). Later, she realized that first reaction was disgusting, and she pulled herself together and did better, largely because she became able to see the issue as class warfare instead of racial warfare, which apparently is just fine with everyone now.

After being challenged, "Nobody" attempts to amend himself: 'My claim is not that “she never discriminated against the farmer,” I said that there is no evidence that she never portrayed herself as discriminating against the farmer.'

I can barely untangle that linguistic mess, but best I can tell it's the exact opposite of what he really said. Which makes it the classic gambit: a big lie followed by irrational shifts of subject and attempts to alternate between diametrically opposed positions. In other words, the camouflage of someone losing an argument.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Ms. Sharrod had her father murdered when she was seventeen by white men which led her to be sensitive about race early in life.

What!!! The cold heartless bitch had her father murdered by white men. Shouldn't she go to jail for having her falther murdered??

Just kidding, I recoginze that Jake can't write a coherent sentence.

Speaking of snookered. Has anyone played Snooker? I have. It is pretty challenging.

Lem said...

A thought experiment..

Have a white woman and a black woman, same age as Sherrod, tell the same speech to two different audiences that have no knowledge of this story.

The white woman will speak to a black audience and the black woman to a white audience.

End of thought experiment.

Lem said...

@ Freeman 5:57

Thats a low blow ;)

AC245 said...

Daniel, you need to go back to school and learn how to diagram a sentence.

Let me give you a clue with some bolding (notice, this is the part of Althouse's quote that you tried to hide with your ellipsis):

Some of you commenters who are ultra-sympathetic to Sherrod should examine whether you are being patronizing.

edutcher said...

Nicely done, Madame. Even our National Socialists seem to have gotten it through their heads that race-baiting has lost its sting, so they malign you, albeit inaptly, by intimating you have no compassion.

As Troop or Fen might note, since they presumably have no contact with feminine sexuality, they don't understand that frigidity has nothing to do with compassion.

PS In a better time, Meade would have sought out Gregory and settled the issue with a horsewhip, if not pistols. Gergory is very lucky.

Lem said...

I recall democrat senators (Biden was the chairman) had no qualms pushing and prodding Clarence Thomas after he had told them how he grew up dirt poor in Pin Point Georgia.

Although Thomas pushed back with the "high tech lynching" line.. None of the senators suffered any consequences as a result of their treatment of Thomas.

HT said...

Lem said...

I recall democrat senators


There are no democrat senators.

Jason said...

in the future, everyone will be racist for fifteen minutes.

Pogo said...

"There are no democrat senators."

Quite right.

Remember the "tic", like Lyme disease or Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.

victoria said...

I am so tired of all the victims. Sharrod, Breitbart, Obama, Vislack. Can't anyone today say something and not couch it in the framework of an attack on someone. Breitbart should have apologized and been done with it. But no, he is a sycophant, a narcissist, and a jerk. Can't anyone say, "I'm sorry, I was wrong." NO. And to all of you who will attack me, @#$% off!

Pathetic


Vicki from Pasadena

victoria said...

You go, Ann. Some people are intimidated by your intelligence. Screw 'em.


Vicki

AC245 said...

"Can't anyone today say something and not couch it in the framework of an attack on someone."

Followed immediately by

"Breitbart should have apologized and been done with it. But no, he is a sycophant, a narcissist, and a jerk."

Stay classy, Vicki.

Lem said...

Victoria dear.. (sorry if you think i'm patronizing) who will apologize for the orchestrated attack on citizens exercising their first amendment right to protest and regress of grievances in DC april 15th.. when they were accused of being racist?

If we agree that being called a racist is tantamount to being called a pedophile.. then you must understand that some people might want to defend themselves.. (full disclosure.. I'm a tea party)

You and I may disagree about the tactics.. but you must agree that the tactics are the same ones that have been in use in the culture wars for some time now.

We didn't start the fire.

Freeman Hunt said...

Which one is the most patronizing?

(1) Hyper-defense of Sherrod.
(2) Affirmative action.
(3) Wolf Blitzer's commentary on the people in New Orleans after Katrina.

Lem said...

At tea partys race has never been an issue.. we are worried about things that are more immediately threatening to this country.

Lem said...

Which one is the most patronizing?

The closing of Gitmo
the growing astronomic deficits

There are more important things than race people.. The election of Obama should have proved that.. it wasn't that hard to elect him was it?

Race is not an issue in this country.. its a made up issue.

I can see why Crack just looses it sometimes.

nobody said...

Pogo,

That's pretty much the same response I get from my "progressive" friends when I try to tell them that the "n-word chanted and spat upon" incident the day before the healthcare vote seems to have been fabricated, or that the Tea Party movement isn't racist.

Freeman Hunt said...

Race is not an issue in this country.. its a made up issue.

Thank you, Lem.

Crack asked where these loonies come from. Let's face it, race has become the theater of stupid in this country. "OMFG, Lott!" "OMFG, Sherrod!" "No biggie, Byrd." "No biggie, racist audience." "Let's prove we're not racist by voting based on race!" Etc. Etc. Etc. Gag.

Lem said...

"Let's prove we're not racist by voting based on race!"

I was here calling people on that..

The answer came back "how McCain lost me".

Poor guy.. never knew what hit him ;)

Pogo said...

Ah, nobody, you can't just post the same thing over and over, ignoring the fact that your main question had been asked and answered several times in the past few days, and expect anything else than that.

It's either disingenuous or thickheaded.

Lem said...

McCain had been running for president since the day he came back from Vietnam..

He got passed over for the Bush dynasty..

And then when its finally his turn.. the very thing he of all the republicans can be said to have under control - comes to bite him in the ass.

Not because of anything he did wrong.. but because of something the country, he McCain thought he was in tune with (Maverick) decided.

Lem said...

McCain reminds me of Fredo.

Fredo Corleone: I'm your older brother, Mike, and I was stepped over!

Michael Corleone: That's the way Pop wanted it.

Fredo Corleone: It ain't the way I wanted it! I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!

Michael Corleone: Fredo, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at the hotels, I don't want you near my house. When you see our mother, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?

Lem said...

I think I got the date wrong at 6:56.. it was the Health Care protest where people were unjustifiably, beyond the most generous burden of proof, accused of racism.

Hagar said...

It just struck me: In all this furore, I have not seen a single comment on the stated fact that the original tape of Ms. Sherrod's speech belongs to the NAACP chapter where the speech was made, so someone there made a copy, edited it, and put it on U-Tube, where Breitbart picked it up.

It seems to me that with every other little nugget being picked over, this should surely also have been worth a liitle speculation.

Lem said...

It seems to me that with every other little nugget being picked over, this should surely also have been worth a liitle speculation.

There was a break.. an editing break? in the so called "entire", "complete" speech.

The Crack Emcee said...

Lem,

For me it was election night, when the old guy was giving his concession speech and his supporters started booing Obama's name. There was a hint of racial animosity in the crowd - and rightly so, after all the "McCain's a racist/Nazi" stuff during the campaign - but the look on McCain's face, the utter disgust and disappointment - in everyone - was heartbreaking. (Full disclosure: I teared up.) He told his people to cut it out, and continued to expound on the historic nature of the evening, swallowing his loss to a liar with dignity.

A few friends called to ask if I was O.K., but most people called to be jerks. And the assholes came out on the blog. I was lost, watching black people celebrating in the streets on TV, and hearing guns going off in my neighborhood. I had lost my wife and money to a charlatan who killed my mother-in-law. To most people I knew, I had gone crazy (remember: the other two deaths hadn't been revealed yet) and my career, and reputation, were ruined. And now my country was gone, too. And I was alone, in a place (Oakland, CA) where voting for McCain was tantamount to treason. But I knew I was right, and they were wrong, so I gathered myself, bolted and blocked the doors and windows real good, gathered my weapons and went to bed, waiting for the nightmares that were the only consistent thing in my life at the time.

I'll never forget it.

howzerdo said...

I haven't visited in a few days so hadn't read the referenced post or comments, but I read it now (post only) and I do not agree with Gregory. It was not frigidly ungenerous. Also I do not believe "incredible ugliness of spirit, a spiteful glee in trying to harm others simply because you can" describes you at all.

Lem said...

I've known racism here and there but nothing overt.. We were sheltered by my father.

Thanks for sharing that with me Crack.. I was writing on and on about something form the hart and then I remember your cause ;)

I don't have the language to comunicate certain things.. they may come across new agay.. I don't know.

bagoh20 said...

This is mostly due to a lack of other news worthy of outrage at the moment.

Economy: Don't bring it up.
War: Oh yea, what's up with that?
China: God bless 'em
Iran: Busy working, we'll talk later.
Deep Horizon: The oil spill was the cheap part.
Terrorism: What's on Glenn Beck tonight?

Hagar said...

There was a break.. an editing break? in the so called "entire", "complete" speech.
Lem

Yes, I believe I have seen that barely mentioned, so that is another little nugget.

A big nugget though, would be who put it out and why?

The MSM keeps saying "heavily edited by Breitbart," but Breitbart did not edit it; the person who put it on YouTube did, and just cutting the clip short (and making one pause?) does not constitute "heavy" editing. Time or equipment constraints? The clip we saw first looked rather amateurish.

Is it not even possible that the person did not even intend to be critical Ms. Sherrod?

bagoh20 said...

In the full version, the break is supposedly where they had to change tapes, according to the NAACP.

Pogo said...

Trooper:

Me n' El Pollo Real are brothers????

Lem said...

I see your point Hagar.

AJ Lynch said...

Wikipedia says Sherrod has a masters degree in community development from Antioch College in Ohio. WTF does that mean she is a certified community organizer?

Isn't that the far left university that went out of business?

Lem said...

Unfortunately the MSM is not interested in digging up the facts.

I have to go..

I'll get back to you guys later.. maybe.

Daniel said...

See, AC, you need to read first, then rethink your stupid insult. It's actually not just once sentence. Are you claiming that between the first sentence, and this --

You are seeing her as Hattie Carroll because she is black. You should be embarrassed... at the very least.

-- that Ann switched from the collective "you" to the Phil "you"? There's nothing to indicate that she did. Hence my point. Class dismissed.

AC245 said...

Daniel, I refuse to take responsibility for your ignorance and stupidity.

I am able to differentiate between some and one, as well as the plural you and singular you.

I am sorry that you can't.

Doug Wright said...

Well now, what to do about commenters' lack of good analysis regarding Sherood's speech. Part was quite racist especially her attack on the "Bushes!" Part deserved much sympathy for what her family had to suffer during the 1960s; Bull Connor's dogs, the KKK, Birmingham church bombing, much other bad stuff. Part was quite good regarding how she changed her perception of "The Other" from a racial basis to a class basis; which still sucks but it's a change without hope for her soul.

However, the response of her audience was very appalling since the NAACP condemned racism over years past but no longer since it now practices that today and is now blatantly political in a way it used to try and hide (At least IMHO!); Breitbart's original thrust!

Too many folks here seem to have gone the way of the LGF crowd and are arguing nits rather than issues; the commenters' choice, fools.

Cheers.

Daniel said...

And despite my advice, you neither read, nor re-thought your stupid insult. I can teach, but I can't make you learn.

El Pollo Real said...

Veering back on topic, here's some vintage Frijid Pink for you all: linkage

Hagar said...

It also strikes me that Ms. Sherrod said some much more inflammatory things (and quite unsuitable if she was introduced as a USDA official) in the portions of the tape that was not on the YouTube version.

Was the NAACP tape copied onto a cellphone device and then sent to YouTube? How much storage capacity do these things have?

BTW, O'Reilly this evening had a clip about Obama's call to Ms. Sherrod, according to which he had said he was sympathetic because of the similarity to his own experiences as related in his books.
This kind of made me picture Obama out in the Georgia beanfields with Ms. Sherrod and Clarence Thomas in the old days, and I am not sure how I would have taken to this if I was Ms. Sherrod.

nobody said...

http://conversations.blackvoices.com/entertainment/99435682aaea4564b24369ed6fc90973/charles-sherrod/eaab752757f94b978d2b0f1d75a46575?sn=6

The video needs to be watched again in a different light.

nobody said...

http://www.blackpast.org/?q=aah/sherrod-charles-1937

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2010/07/charles-sherrod-a-hero-forgotten.html

bagoh20 said...

So there were Hawaiian KKK? They could dye the tops of their hoods red, and be little volcanoes. Kewl.

El Pollo Real said...

Me n' El Pollo Real are brothers????

@Pogo Coincidentally I do have a brother who lives across the river from Winona but he's a welder not an M.D.

Pogo said...

El Pollo:

Fountain City?? Awesome!
Trailer trash that I am, I rent a spot on the river not 2 miles from Winona, on the WI side of the river. I have no river rat in me, though; my wife's family knows all that outdoorsy stuff. I'm just there for the food.

Hagar said...

The clip was of Robert Gibbs at the WH press briefing, and it is of course possibly spin for that Obama just pointed out to Ms. Sherrod that he knew a little something about community organizing and race hustling, so maybe she should cool it and dial it back a bit.

Fen said...

Ms. Sharrod had her father murdered when she was seventeen by white men which led her to be sensitive about race early in life.

Anyone know the details re this? The MSM keeps leaving it intentionally vague. Which has me wondering if "murdered by white men" means "involved in wreck" with white people.

I only ask, because, too many times, the Left play fast and loose with terms, as with all those Iraqi's we "murdered".

Stephen said...

Well hey, Professor Althouse, did you happen to notice that her father was murdered by whites and no one was ever prosecuted, that the white farmer came on, in her view, as condescending. All this in the context of being an ambitious black woman in the deep south--how often do you think that during her career she experienced directly the effects of overt racism--she grew up, after all, in Lester Maddox's home state. Pretty understandable, perhaps even forgivable, that she might have felt some racism in response. But for you, she apparently was just a garden variety racist, as quickly to be condemned as, say, Trent Lott. And for you, what she describes presumptively isn't genuine insight or repentance. More generally, there seems to be no acknowledgment in your post of the possibility that it might be brave and risky and valuable for her to talk about all of that stuff. No, she's just a powerful person to be viewed through the lens of your deep skepticism. You seem to see all this stuff as just about playing race cards--but surely there are cases where there is more going on. Why can't you acknowledge that her speech could be one?

nobody said...

Texan99: OK, that's obviously insane. It was the whole point of the story, that first she "didn't exactly do all she could for him" (snicker, wink, audience murmurs in fully comprehending approval on camera). Later, she realized that first reaction was disgusting, and she pulled herself together and did better, largely because she became able to see the issue as class warfare instead of racial warfare, which apparently is just fine with everyone now.

I doubt that anybody in that room felt that her first reaction was disgusting. She doesn’t think her first reaction was disgusting. She never did. She’s not apologizing for her hatred. She has nothing to apologize for in that respect. There is no apology to be made to anybody.

There was indeed an epiphany: but not a moral one. She committed herself to a moral vision when she was 17. She chose the path of self-sacrifice. She has remained true to that vision throughout her life, at great personal cost. She is describing an intellectual epiphany, not a moral epiphany.

nobody said...

Pogo said...

Ah, nobody, you can't just post the same thing over and over, ignoring the fact that your main question had been asked and answered several times in the past few days, and expect anything else than that.

It's either disingenuous or thickheaded.



Pogo, no my main question has never been answered.

The misreading of her speech is Bettelheimian in its wrongness.

She is being seen through cultural lenses that are pervasively distorting the image.

Texan99 said...

Nobody: "I doubt that anybody in that room felt that her first reaction was disgusting. She doesn’t think her first reaction was disgusting. She never did. She’s not apologizing for her hatred. She has nothing to apologize for in that respect. There is no apology to be made to anybody. . . . She is describing an intellectual epiphany, not a moral epiphany."

Roll back the hot crazy, buddy. You've left incoherence behind and are now in purely random word-association territory.

But if what you're stumbling toward is a recognition that Breitbart exposed racial hatred among NAACP members and their invited speaker from the Obama USDA, I guess I'm with you that far.

nobody said...

No, this is a cultural misunderstanding/misreading.

And first, we aren't talking just about NAACP members. We are talking about a local meeting in Georgia, in the deep south, among an audience that includes a number of people from the civil rights era - veterans.

And the idea that they are cheering racial hatred or discrimination is crazy. That's what Breitbart told you he was showing you. It's not what's in the video.

nobody said...

No, Stephen, this is not about "an ambitious black woman in the deep south."

This is about a founding leader of the non-violent civil rights movement in the deep south.

Fen said...

how often do you think that during her career she experienced directly the effects of overt racism

So revenge racism is justified? Because if thats Society's new standard, my Cherokee blood is up for it... /s

ShorterLibtard: "Whitey has it comuing"

nobody: And the idea that they are cheering racial hatred or discrimination is crazy. That's what Breitbart told you he was showing you. It's not what's in the video.

Sure. They must have been laughing and nodding approvingly at the clown off stage left.

You guys are desperate apologists. Whats your motive?

nobody said...

Whitey had it coming? Revenge racism? Laughing...at?

Good grief.

My motives?

I'm the sort of person who gets outraged by things like the character assassination and public and institutional persecution of people like Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, David Evans, or Shirley Sherrod.

Is that clear enough?