June 13, 2010

The Tea Party movement in Wisconsin is doing very well, but it's not clear that it will endorse Russ Feingold's Republican opponent Ron Johnson.

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
[Ron] Johnson associated himself with the movement, and erroneous media reports portrayed him as an Oshkosh tea party founder, creating the false impression he had received a tea party endorsement.

Johnson has fueled the confusion at times, talking about "taking the tea party to Washington" while downplaying his association at other times. The situation created a mini-backlash among tea party folks who knew little or nothing of Johnson, an Oshkosh businessman who entered the Republican primary race in early May.

Now Johnson has told tea-party leaders he will be glad to accept their invitations to attend sessions in which group members quiz candidates on their views....

The Democrat seeking re-election in the Senate race, Russ Feingold, has cast votes against bank bailouts and the Patriot Act that match up with tea party views, his campaign says.

"We're going to fight for every voter in the state," said John Kraus, Feingold's senior campaign strategist. "We have a good record on many of the issues these folks care about."
I like seeing the Democratic Party candidate fight for the Tea Partiers. Republican candidates shouldn't be able to automatically appropriate the energy of the Tea Party movement.

155 comments:

Expat(ish) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Expat(ish) said...

[spelling is hard!]

R's don't get it automatically and D's can get it. The questions are:

- are you conservative?

- do you believe in limited national gov't?

- do you believe in the constitution?

Sorry, I know that is too simple for the (over) educated. But it's like making a friend: are you interested, are you dependable, can you you keep a secret? ... Not everything is rocket science.

-XC

PS - I am sure the 'litmus' test has more questions than that, this is just my personal donation/voting filter.

Kirby Olson said...

Why doesn't Condoleeza Rice run for president or at least high office?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ytj-I28nt8

Big Mike said...

The thought that a far-left winger like Feingold could get Tea Party votes is, well, suggestive of long and short term memory loss in Wisconsin.

edutcher said...

Glad to see the Demos are beginning to realize that the Tea Partiers are going to be a force in this country for some time to come.

Equally glad to see the Tea Partiers are thinking hard about if, as well as whom, to endorse.

Kirby Olson said...

Why doesn't Condoleeza Rice run for president or at least high office?

Perhaps bucking the system isn't worth being called a house n-----.

Nice to see how all those Lefties so concerned about what's happening to black people show respect to someone who's earned her position on merit, not affirmative action.

k*thy said...

There is something going on with Feingold - though he's solidly progressive, he's had the respect of a lot of conservatives (even members of my own family) who continue to vote for him. It'll be interesting how Johnson responds.

LonewackoDotCom said...

The teapartiers aren't really that conservative: they're far-rightwing/libertarian types.

They certainly don't act like conservatives. Is playing dress-up games, throwing tantrums, and being completely unable to make an argument conservative?

Is standing on street corners waving loopy signs, degrading the level of debate in the U.S., and all the rest conservative?

Following the playbook of a far-leftie (Alinsky) just isn't that conservative.

And, almost everyone believes in limited gov't and the Constitution. A bit more thinking is required.

For the issues that the 'partiers have that you won't hear about from either their supporters or most of their detractors, see my extensive tea parties coverage.

----------
P.S. Past comments at this site have unleashed a volley of vile adhominems and libelous comments. Ann Althouse promoted the 'partiers, causing some of them to visit this site and show the true nature of their movement. They can't present a logical argument but instead have to lie and smear from behind (temporary) anonymity. The partiers have a problem with the truth and have clear mental and emotional issues, and some or many replies to this comment will show you exactly what I mean by that. Don't believe the lies that tea partiers spread; instead, take a look at some of the thousands of entries I've posted since 2002. A good place to start is my topics page. For instance, here's my extensive coverage of the NCLR, and here's a list of my posts about George Soros.

Trooper York said...

It really is sad.

Doug Wright said...

Well, WI Tea Party adoption of Feingold is to be expected since WI is on the left bank of the Mississippi. Can't consider any other reason for the WI TP to do so.

Long: Who are you? Have you ever posted here before?

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
El Pollo Real said...

I love it. The Tea Party is something that needs to be defined so that it can be marginalized.

They haven't figured out yet that it's politically more significant to get a Tea Party condemnation than an endorsement.


wv "rever" as in: "One if by land; two if by sea"

k*thy said...

Doug, WI is east (right, I guess, for non-geographers) of the Mississippi, not west/left.

HDHouse said...

There was a great chorous song from 1776 - the musical...These cool cool cool considerate men...here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JDNTS2wHHo. (it is from the movie)

I got to play in the pit orchestra, evenaully conduct it and on national tour I got to be a member of the congress... greatest thrill of my life...and I would give my eye teeth to have been there...just for a minute.

Dead Julius said...

Democrats soliciting tea baggers... and its not even Wacky Wednesday! (Those tea baggers are just fanatics with an unhuman philosophy, btw, but I guess we won't say that while asking for their vote.)

Meanwhile, the divine Obama is saying that we have a new 9/11 that will "require" him to remake America in the same way that Bush remade America after the first 9/11.

Those 9/11s come in handy... sort of like the modern equivalent of a bloody toga.

dick said...

The McCain/Feingold Bill should be enough to see Feingold off on that one. That should move the Tea Partiers away from him immediately.

Peano said...

Tim Dake, a key figure in the movement, says no party controls the movement. Republicans "ask us, 'What do you guys really want?' I tell them to read the signs - constitutionality and fiscal responsibility."

It's so simple, and yet so dark and mysterious to career politicians who are primarily interested in their own careers.

Tea partiers, in the main, cannot be bullshat. That is what careerists cannot fathom.

george said...

The Tea Party has no position on the Patriot Act to my knowledge. That would certainly be a departure from their focus and reason for being. There are a lot of libertarians in the movement but fiscal issues are what brings the conservatives and libertarians together to form the Tea Party.

Right now the Tea Party is the only movement with a rational and consistent philosophy. That it also happens to be the one shared by the Founders and every other generation of Americans before the current one is of course not surprising.

Don Meaker said...

It would indeed be a good thing if we had two parties that both ran candidates who supported limited government, civil debate, and civic virtue. If both parties support partial violations of the government limitations in the Constitution, and telling what ever lies are necessary to get elected. In that case, the one that might be a liar has to be supported compared to the one who is a proven liar. Throw the rascals out, until you find someone who isn't a rascal.

Rialby said...

Agreed on how nice it would be if Democrats were just as willing to DO fiscally conservative. I disagree that Feingold will do anything but SAY fiscally conservative things. Can WI voters tell the difference?

Michael Hasenstab said...

Time out.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has gone all-in for Russ Feingold's re-election. It has also ridiculed the Tea Party movement and it's members, both on it's editorial page and its front page.

To base a topic on anything the J/S prints is to start with flawed and biased thinking.

Andrew Ian Dodge said...

No one should take tea party support for granted.

Michael Hasenstab said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Quayle said...

LDW, what planet are you living on?

Your fact filter appears to be broken from years of leftist indoctrination.

The tea party message is pretty simple: stop corrupting the commerce clause of the constitution, and thereby turning the federal government into a tyrannical monopoly.

Oh, and kick out all the lying, cheating, egotistical, manipulating, dissolute government leaders.

Oh, and I'm going to grade your paper here:
"My issues with the tea parties fall into several main areas:

1. Their ideology is wrong.
2. They make little political sense.
3. Their methods are wrong.
4. Those behind the movement do not support good public policies.
5. Their priorities are wrong."

Every statement is conclusory. You get an F.

Jason said...

Just read the opinionator link. Wow. That idiot must be a lot of fun at cocktail parties!

Scott said...

Conflating "right wingers" with libertarians is ignorant.

The tea partiers would probably support a latter-day Eugene Debs -- an anti-war, anti-Wilsonian Socialist who didn't see the state as a proper engine of social policy -- if such a person appeared on the political scene today.

(BTW, my maternal grandfather organized the Burnett County Highway Department as the first local of AFSCME in the state of Wisconin.)

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Lone Wacko Party members know that there is only one topic, so any opinions related to any other topics are de facto lies. You can't have an opinion about smaller government, because only illegal immigration actually exists.

The best thing about the Lone Wacko Party? It only has one member.

David said...

Feingold is to be praised for his consistency, but part of what he's consistent about is public spending for just about everything. That's just got to stop, and Russ isn't the guy to stop it.

TosaGuy said...

"Time out.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has gone all-in for Russ Feingold's re-election. It has also ridiculed the Tea Party movement and it's members, both on it's editorial page and its front page.

To base a topic on anything the J/S prints is to start with flawed and biased thinking."

You beat me too it. The J/S coverage of this event for Feingold and Barrett is as about as critical as a teenage girl at a boyband concert.

I suspect Feingold's votes on the Porkulus, Health Deform and (impending) Cap and Trade are more on the minds of Tea Party types than the Patriot Act. That is really bad journalism

Doug Wright said...

Kathy: Try facing downriver on the Mississippi River and tell me is WI on your left side or right side? In my world, WI is on my left side as I face downriver. That confirms my opinion about much of WI politically, but not exclusively!

Cheers!

Ps: In Paris, the Left Bank is on the South side of the Seine, or on a person's left side as facing downstream.

Cheers again.

danielle said...

GO CELTICS !!!

Fred4Pres said...

Dems and Pubs should fight for Tea Partiers. I can't see how Russ Feingold can beat out any Republican on Tea Party issues, but then again, you just pointed out a couple.

setnaffa said...

No conservative in their right mind would vote for any current Democrat incumbent, especially not Russ Feingold.

He hasn't got a Conservative bone in his body. He and McAmnesty coauthored the bill that created the foreigner-funded MoveOn.org and hamstrung free speech by less well funded citizens.

May the Lord have mercy on us for allowing those people to power.

dave1310 said...

Maybe the trend (hockey stick) towards fiscal conservatism by the Tea Party is really the solution to both sides of the equation; if the money to the federal government is limited, there will be no funds available for the liberal social agenda. Removing the oxygen dampens a fire as well as flushing with water and usually results in less in the way of unexpected consequences.

bagoh20 said...

Stop listening to what politicians say. If they voted mostly progressive before, they aren't changing this year. Their power base, income sources and personal philosophy are not gonna change all of a sudden.

Choose based on record, reliability and ethics, period. Even those who never held office before have a record of who they supported and what they supported.

This is why nobody should claim Obama fooled them - he lied to you. The Democrats are going to lie to you.

You don't really expect them to continue to stand in defiance of Tea Party themes after it has become clear that's the most popular position? RINOs will do the same thing. They are all in the business of getting elected. Nobody sells their crappy product by telling you it's crappy. They tell you it's the best damn thing ever invented and it's great for the environment too. Now why would someone lie about such a thing. This voting thing is not hard if you truly follow cruel neutrality.

Rose said...

Good thin you qualified which "Johnson" it was. LOL Or else...

M. Simon said...

Cruel neutrality?

Didn't that lead A to vote for Obama? Or did she do that in defiance of her supposed neutrality?

traditionalguy said...

"The Tea Party is divide and cannot stand" is the new test meme. If the TP doesn't wake up, the Ron and Rand show will indeed become their loudest voice and smash their chance for a united effort at voting out the Marxism Lite Party now holding power. Feingold is only seen as a rebel because he is actually to the left of the Democrats in the Senate.

Pogo said...

If the Tea Party, the only home for fiscal conservatism, endorses Russ Feingold, a standard tax-n-spender, it's a dead party.

Joe said...


P.S. Past comments at this site have unleashed a volley of vile adhominems and libelous comments.


What do i have to say that gets me on the "libelous" list, Lonewacko?

That you are sad and pathetic? That you hve to troll other sites for hits to your lonely outpost? that at Reason Magagzine you got run off and that apparently everywhere you go you are a target for laughter and derision? That you are truly CLUELESS, in that when it's obvious NO ONE agrees with you, rather than questioning your stand, you question EVERYONE else....

Fen said...

To get on the List, just point out that LoneWacko is a Soros-funded troll.

Fred4Pres said...

Dems behaving badly.

Congressman, it might make sense to lay off the bourbon with breakfast for a while.

Joe said...


To get on the List, just point out that LoneWacko is a Soros-funded troll.



George should ask for his money back, then. How much is Lone into George for? Or does George have that kind of cash to throw around?

Because let's be honest, Lonewacko is not really a great return on your investment....

Pogo said...

Obama, in contrast, has been great for the Soros financial statement.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Wow. I want to feel luxcuy.

wv: annesse--the distilled quality of Althouseness.

bagoh20 said...

Ann's cruel neutrality amounted to projecting forward the worst possible for one candidate and the most rosy for the other by ignoring the second's record entirely. Then she threw in the idea that if he's a disaster we will know who's ass to kick.

I agree with the second part, but now know the disaster is too large and the ass kicking is small solace. November may make her call a worthwhile gamble, but a disaster is the price.

It was not neutrality. It was her creamy hippie love chick center underestimating the damage always done by the left's policies. This is the primary failing of the boomer legacy.

former law student said...

Funny to be a Tea Partyist in Oshkosh -- the big free market employer (B'Gosh) pulled out, leaving the government contractor (military, airport, and fire fighting vehicles) to provide salaries to locals that they can spend locally.

Original Mike said...

While Feingold has had some idiosyncratic votes for a progressive, he voted for the non-stimulative stimulus and for ObamaCare. There is no way in hell he gets support from the Tea Party.

Pogo said...

"Funny to be a Tea Partyist in Oshkosh"

Gee, mebbe that's what they're bitching about.

Lem said...

Drudge got some interesting video this morning you might want to take a look at. Specially if you are from North Carolina 2nd District

former law student said...

Gee, mebbe that's what they're bitching about.

Having their jobs move where labor is considerably cheaper? Are Tea Partyists anti-capitalism?

Maybe Oshkosh Tea Partyists should learn to live on less. Top Ramen three times a day, no more supper clubs, ride your bike to work instead of driving -- the possibilities for savings are endless. Then just watch the jobs come back.

Scott M said...

Republican candidates shouldn't be able to automatically appropriate the energy of the Tea Party movement.

Yeah...what the hell do they think this is? The Democrats and black people?

rabble/rabble/rabble

lemondog said...

Another reason for voter-imposed term limits, to vote out of office excess-termed, privileged-assuming elected officials who need to experience private sector work and the effects of the legislation that they have imposed on society.


If you were waiting at O'Hare -- blame Patrick Leahy


One of the passengers, the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, walked to the back of the plane. 5 minutes later the pilot came on the loud speaker and said, "folks we've been given the go ahead to take off." As Leahy walked backed to his seat someone said "thanks Senator!" to which he replied "the pilot said he'd do his best."

Elected to the US Senate in 1993, Feingold falls into the category of the excessive-termed official.

Joe said...

I don't know FLS IS the Tea Party anti-Capitalist?

How come Obama couldn't save the jobs? To turn it around....

IF the Tea Party is hypocritical, doesn't this also highlight the pathetic weakness of the Progressive Movment and it's claims?

Just ask'n? Wasn't the Stimulus and Healthcare Reform all about a laser-like focus on Jobs, Jobs, JOBS? Healthcare Reform is going to SAVE money, bend the cost curve, make US products MORE competitive and the Stimulus was going to hold unemployment BELOW 8%!

Pogo said...

"Having their jobs move where labor is considerably cheaper? Are Tea Partyists anti-capitalism?"

Why do you think jobs are leaving the high tax states? Why are they moving to low tax states?

Something to do with the tax-spend-regulate thing that gummint does over and over and over again.

Taxed Enough Already.
TEA.
Tea party.
Ain't that hard, fls, even for a lawyer.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Drudge got some interesting video this morning you might want to take a look at. Specially if you are from North Carolina 2nd District

You have to wonder if the whole Dem party is melting down to the point where they don't even think twice about physically assaulting a constituent on the street.

Dewave said...

I'm also glad to see it. The country loses badly when political parties think they can take voters for granted.

Far too many of our politicians take their perks for granted and have much too great a sense of entitlement. They should assume they have to work to gain our trust and votes, not assume that they deserve it 'just because'.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Having their jobs move where labor is considerably cheaper? Are Tea Partyists anti-capitalism?

I'm sure Wisconsin being ranked 42 for business climate had nothing to do with it.

Pogo said...

I'm expecting a Democratic Congressman to have a "What's the frequency, Kenneth?" moment or a rabbit attack real soon.

AllenS said...

Oshkosh B'Gosh was sold to someone else, IIRC. Where the clothes are being made now, I don't know. Seems to me that they sold the company long before there was a Tea Party. I do know that you can't find their bib overalls anymore, and if they were making working clothes, well, let's face it, blue color jobs are leaving even as we speak.

Original Mike said...

If George Will's article on Johnson a couple of weeks back is even half accurate, Tea Party support is a slam dunk. What's the Journal Sentinel smoking?

garage mahal said...

Allen
Oshkosh was sold to Carters in 2005. I was just up there yesterday for my niece's graduation party.

AllenS said...

garage,

I used to buy their bib overalls. I don't think that they make them anymore. Now I buy Dickies, and they are made in Mexico. When I buy overalls, I buy them at the Fleet Farm and the brand that they carry are called Field N Forest and they are made in Madagascar. We don't seem to make anything anymore. Too bad, that.

WV: essesses

garage mahal said...

Madagascar? Jesus.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Drudge got some interesting video this morning you might want to take a look at. Specially if you are from North Carolina 2nd District

Oh man!! I would so be sueing that a-hole.

Just because you are a congressperson doesn't give you a pass on physical assault or other criminal activity.

AlphaLiberal said...

The Tea Party "movement" is a creation of Republican lobbyists. They TP money flows to them. They know the Republican Part brand is severely damaged so they have worked on various "rebranding" efforts. This is one.

They are government hating, which suits the corporate lobbyists running their movement just fine. Limit government but give corporations more and more power and more and more tax breaks.

They are using the TPers.

AlphaLiberal said...

Question for the Tea Party set:

* Do you support higher wages for working people (-- and I don't mean bankers or investors)?

* Do you support lower taxes for the wealthy, including fund managers who pay about half, percentagewise, what normal working folk do?

AllenS said...

When I wear blue jeans, it's Carhartt's for me. I'm a working man, I need clothes that have extra pockets for tools. Carhartt is out of Deerborn MI. The jeans are assembled in Mexico.

AllenS said...

I don't belong to the Tea Party, but I don't want Alpha Liberal to make my clothes. Wouldn't matter if he made $1 or $30 an hour. They wouldn't hold up after the first wash.

AlphaLiberal said...

Also, will the Tea Party bunch oppose strengthening regulation for offshore drilling?

Bush and Cheney gutted deep water drilling regulations (SMALLER GOVERNMENT!). You guys seems supportive of that, despite the massive costs it has imposed in the Gulf of America ("you broke it, you bought it" - Steven Colbert).

Does your SMALL GOVERNMENT demand also extend to regulation of offshore drilling?

And when do you suppose the free market will clean up the mess in the Gulf it has created?

Scott M said...

They are using the TPers.

You just keep thinking that right into the legislative minority. My parents are heavily involved in their local TP group and know all of the organizers quite well. Not a one of them has ever had any contact with anyone in the RNC. And, by the by, I know your viewpoint is skewed and unwilling accept open debate on the issue, but nobody that I know that’s been to a TP rally hates the government. They are highly cynical, which isn’t the same thing at all. What they do hate is the way increasingly precious tax dollars are wasted over and over and over again.

AllenS said...

Define normal working folk.

Scott M said...

* Do you support higher wages for working people (-- and I don't mean bankers or investors)?

Loaded question and you know it. No, I don't support $35 an hour for a guy on an assembly line only trained to do a couple of specific things on that line. I don't support $10 an hour for baggers at a grocery store either. Both are "working people" and both are being paid far above what they should be. I believe you've said in the past that you support the "living wage" ideology. Bupkis. You shouldn't be able to shelter and feed a family of four flipping burgers at McDonalds.

Hoosier Daddy said...

* Do you support lower taxes for the wealthy, including fund managers who pay about half, percentagewise, what normal working folk do?

Huh?

It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

Joe said...

* Do you support higher wages for working people (-- and I don't mean bankers or investors)?

Of course I do, but HOW we do it matters. So in your world, AL, is merely MANDATING a “Living Wage” sufficient? You make money by being productive, not by raising wages and costs.

* Do you support lower taxes for the wealthy, including fund managers who pay about half, percentagewise, what normal working folk do?
How many homeless people have given you a job, recently, AL?
Further, the substance of your claim is false, as the “wealthy” pay far more than their “fair share” of taxes…I believe the top 5% of wage earners pay over 50% of all income taxes.

As to the Tea Party and GOP lobbyists, would you care to provide any facts? I know facts and logic are merely the constructs of the Phallicentric, Ratiocinating Gaia-Dominating Dead European Male, but humour me…..

AlphaLiberal said...

Scott M:

You just keep thinking that right into the legislative minority. .

Yes, Sharon Angle and Rand Paul, TP leading "lights" will win in November with their whacky extremist views.

Great plan. Don't let up!


Beyond that,Scott, the the role of lobbyists in starting and running the Tea Party enterprise is well-established. Freedomworks, Dick Armey, etc, etc.

I'd post more evidence of that but know you guys have a strong ability to disregard inconvenient facts in favor of your fantasy.

Allen, people who earn a wage for their labor and are not of the executive class. It's a simple concept.

What does the Tea Party offer those people? We know they want to cut taxes for the executives and gut regulations for the corporations.

But what about the working people? What, beyond failed trickle down BS, does the Tea Party offer them?

Joe said...

I also find it humourous that it’s Bush’s fault about Deep-water drilling, when the Left never wants us to ask, “Why deep water drilling?” Because people like AL won’t allow any shallow water drilling or development of ANWR or tar sands…..

pduggie said...

Wait, the tea partiers are crazy anti government racists, right?

So how is Russ Feingold claiming that his votes match up with Tea Party views.

Somebody forgot The Narrative.

Joe said...

But what about the working people? What, beyond failed trickle down BS, does the Tea Party offer them?

I guess the 1980’s and 1990’s never happened AL? Lucky we have a Progressive in office now…with the Stimulus the “working people” have a real fair shake…if you find making $240 on unemployment a fair shake.

AllenS said...

Tell me, Alpha, what do you do for a living, and be specific. You can click on my profile and see what I did for a living.

AlphaLiberal said...

Joe:

Of course I do, but HOW we do it matters. So in your world, AL, is merely MANDATING a “Living Wage” sufficient? You make money by being productive, not by raising wages and costs.

Answering a question with a question is evasive. The thread is about the Tea Party. What do they offer working people (besides a poke in the eye with a sharp stick)

Further, the substance of your claim is false, as the “wealthy” pay far more than their “fair share” of taxes…I believe the top 5% of wage earners pay over 50% of all income taxes.

Uh, no, it isn't. Congress is working on plugging a loophole right now where certain Wall St types are taxed at a rate less than half what other Americans are taxed at.

It's one of those trickle down policies. Do you think that Wall Street has delivered? do you feel their trickle?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Allen, people who earn a wage for their labor and are not of the executive class. It's a simple concept.

Define what a grocery store clerk should make. Define what a retail clerk should make. Define what a auto assembly person should make. Define what a doctor should make.

AlphaLiberal said...

I guess the 1980’s and 1990’s never happened AL?


they did happen. And the gap between the rich and the poor grew wider and wider. Wages for all sorts of jobs were either flat or declining.

That's what happens with failed trickle-down policies. The whole idea was the best way to improve the lot for most people was to first help the rich.

Turns out rich people are pretty good at hanging on to money. the trickle down experiment is a dismal failure.

So what does the Tea Party do for working people again?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

* Do you support higher wages for working people (-- and I don't mean bankers or investors)?

I support the free market place of wages with a decent minimum wage. People should get paid what the employer will pay based on skill, geographic locality, importance of the employee to the business and the economics of the business.

* Do you support lower taxes for the wealthy, including fund managers who pay about half, percentagewise, what normal working folk do?

Instead of punishing people for creating wealth or for having a good income,I support a flat tax where EVERYONE pays some taxes and EVERYONE pays the same percentage.

Quit having 40% + of the country freeloading and leeching off of the work and industry of the rest of us.

Hoosier Daddy said...

What do they offer working people (besides a poke in the eye with a sharp stick)

I guess it depends. As my previous link showed, 47% of working Americans pay zero income tax so I guess for those who don't actually pay income tax, runaway government debt (the Tea Party platform) probably doesn't bother them. Can't worry about something you will never be called upon to pay for right?

Hoosier Daddy said...

That's what happens with failed trickle-down policies.

Yeah I forgot what shitty economic times the 80s and 90s were.

AlphaLiberal said...

When you go shopping, do you say: I want to pay more than the price. I think it's too low?

The ratio of executive pay to worker pay has spiraled out of sight in this country. It's the new Gilded Age.

Executive pay is way way up.

Wages are flat or declining. The standard of living for the American workers is falling.

But here comes the Tea Party, all concerned with taxes on the rich and demanding the government regulations be cut, even as the BP/Cheney oil spill shows how important regulation is.

Tea Party has ZERO for working people.

bagoh20 said...

"What does the Tea Party offer those people? "

You mean, what do they offer themselves? Freedom from people like you draining them of their hard earned money and opportunity. They don't want offered anything. They aren't offering their votes for sale, which is a real problem for Democrats.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Turns out rich people are pretty good at hanging on to money.

Probably how they stay rich. I mean as opposed to pissing it away and all.

You aren't very bright are you.

AlphaLiberal said...

Fact is, most conservatives think high wages are a problem. They detest and scorn working people.

They are very fine with high unemployment because it keeps wages down.

This is reality.

AlphaLiberal said...

Hoosier Sphincter:

Probably how they stay rich. I mean as opposed to pissing it away and all.

You aren't very bright are you.


Uh, that was actually my point in the first place. And that is why the notion of trickle down economics is a cruel joke.

Not the brightest bulb, are you?

Joe said...

Answering a question with a question is evasive. The thread is about the Tea Party. What do they offer working people (besides a poke in the eye with a sharp stick).

No it’s not, you asked an ambiguous question. I answered that IF you want to make more money be more productive, and that if your “answer” was some form of “living wage” your idea was wrong.

Further, the substance of your claim is false, as the “wealthy” pay far more than their “fair share” of taxes…I believe the top 5% of wage earners pay over 50% of all income taxes.

Uh, no, it isn't. Congress is working on plugging a loophole right now where certain Wall St types are taxed at a rate less than half what other Americans are taxed at.


As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said we are all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own set of facts. The top wage earners pay an overwhelming proportion of the income tax. As to Wall Street types:
1) I assume you mean their return on “investment income”….because I’m talking about INCOME taxes. So now you wish to tax their investments? Good plan, take that investment return. So instead of investing, they sit on the money….THAT”LL PRODUCE JOBS. You ARE truly clueless as to what produces jobs, aren’t you?
2) I must laugh as these “wall Street Fat Cats” almost all overwhelming supported OBAMA. So, now you want to eat your own, do you AL? I wonder how they feel about their votes and contributions, now…it is to laugh.

AllenS said...

Senators Kohl and Feingold have done absolutely nothing to help keep companies that provide work for common working folk in Wisconsin. One after another are packing up and leaving.

Yeah, blame the Tea Party.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Fact is, most conservatives think high wages are a problem. They detest and scorn working people.

They are very fine with high unemployment because it keeps wages down.

This is reality.


Maybe in your own little Bizzaro world it is.

In the real world it isn't

NotYourTypicalNewYorker said...

Sigh...once again.

86% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 25% of income earners.(up from 84% in 2000)

The top 50% pay 97% of all income taxes.

The top 1% pay 39% of all income taxes.(up 2% from 2000)

All figures come from the I.R.S.

"Taxing the rich","Making the rich pay their fair share" cry the liberals.These two phrases are causing the "rich" to leave New York and New Jersey in droves.

Biting,no,gnawing off the hand that feeds you comes to mind.

Hoosier Daddy said...

Uh, that was actually my point in the first place. And that is why the notion of trickle down economics is a cruel joke.

Not the brightest bulb, are you?


Yeah real joke when the 80s and 90s which you decried were the periods of the greatest post-war economic growth and prosperity.

I have shoes smarter than you.

bagoh20 said...

"Executive pay is way way up."

You can cut all the executive pay to minimum wage and it would change nothing, except that the person flipping your burger would be your boss. Good luck with that. The amount of money paid to all the executives in the country is spent by this government in minutes. Wise up and stop sounding like a loser.

former law student said...

The original minimum wage was designed to allow a working girl to pay her room and board, medical and dental expenses, buy a reasonable amount of clothing, including a winter coat every other year, and still have some money left over for entertainment.

The question: Do you believe that people who work diligently 40 hours a week should earn enough to cover such modest needs?

Scott M said...

Tea Party has ZERO for working people.

Except maybe for the fact that it's made up of a shitload of them. Inconvenient to your line of thinking, but there you have it.

Scott M said...

The question: Do you believe that people who work diligently 40 hours a week should earn enough to cover such modest needs?

I'll do the unthinkable and answer a question with a question...do you think someone working 40 hours a week, regardless of what that 40 hours entails, should be able to buy a decent house and support a family of four?

AllenS said...

fls,

I started in the work force in 1965 making $1.42 an hour. Minimum wage at the time was $1.25. Trust me, a working girl couldn't pay her room and board, medical and dental expenses, buy a reasonable amount of clothing, including a winter coat every other year, and still have some money left over for entertainment on those wages.

Hoosier Daddy said...

The original minimum wage was designed to allow a working girl to pay her room and board, medical and dental expenses, buy a reasonable amount of clothing, including a winter coat every other year, and still have some money left over for entertainment.

Sometimes I can't tell if he's being serious or not.

Joe said...

The original minimum wage was designed to allow a working girl to pay her room and board, medical and dental expenses, buy a reasonable amount of clothing, including a winter coat every other year, and still have some money left over for entertainment.

The question: Do you believe that people who work diligently 40 hours a week should earn enough to cover such modest needs?

You are So right, FLS….the current plan is to pay people NOTHING so they starve to death…so they can buy NOTHING….

You can’t be this economically dense can you? Why do you think teen unemployment is at record levels, and MINORITY teen unemployment at about ~40%? Because they are the LEAST Skilled Workers and if the minimum wage is set at a level where hiring such an employee costs an employer money, they WILL NOT HIRE THEM. Minimum wage laws are one way of unions taking care of their better paid and more skilled members, IF the floor sweeper gets $715 an hour then the CAD-CAM Machinist is gonna make a whole lot more.

bagoh20 said...

"The question: Do you believe that people who work diligently 40 hours a week should earn enough to cover such modest needs?"

Do you think students or other young people starting out should be able to get jobs? Or would you prefer to feel all compassionate while they earn zero and get zero experience under your wing, thus setting them up for permanent poverty.

You don't care about them - you care about how good you feel about yourself. The disservice you do them will always be someone else's fault. Your ideology has produced the unemployable of today and you still can't reexamine your ideas. Shame on you. You are a repressor of the highest order.

TMink said...

The answer: If they don't they need to get a better job.

Or they should have had fewer children.

Or they should get a second job.

These are answers of personal responsibility.

Take Bobby Jindall and Barak Obama, which would you want cleaning an oilspill? Someone who builds a barrier or someone who passes a moratorium?

Trey

Dust Bunny Queen said...

The original minimum wage was designed to allow a working girl to pay her room and board, medical and dental expenses, buy a reasonable amount of clothing, including a winter coat every other year, and still have some money left over for entertainment.

bwahahah.....oh my bleeding heart strings. The poor working girl. Shouldn't you make her a homeless single mother too?

Ok. The minimum wage laws were first applied to prevent women and children from being abused in sweat shops. Men weren't covered.

It was to be the lowest wage that could be paid....NOT a "living" wage (whatever in the hell that is) to allow the burger flipper to be on a parity with skilled labor. Pretty sure it didn't have to do with buying coats or underwear.

MINIMUM. Nothing wrong with a base rate to prevent businesses from abusing employees.

However, when goverment raised the minimum rate to unsustainable levels, the minimum wage earners (unskilled, young, part time, students) were aced out of jobs as businesses make do with less staff and hire less.

Good job libs.

Joe said...

bagoh20 said...

Says it best, FLS and Al don't really care about the poor, they care about TALKING about the poor.

AC245 said...

Fact is, most conservatives think high wages are a problem. They detest and scorn working people.

They are very fine with high unemployment because it keeps wages down.

This is reality.


If AlphaLiberal and FLS really cared about poor people, they'd advocate a $1000/hour minimum wage.

Then we'd all be rich!

(What do you mean, "that's not how it works"? Are you some kind of evil, poor people-hating conservative?)

Pogo said...

The minimum wage has only resulted in reduced employment for young people, especially black males.

Clearly, the Democratic Party hates young black men, which explains Sen. Byrd place of honor.

AllenS said...

A thought just occurred to me. I'd be willing to bet, that if you went to Madagascar where my coveralls are being made, that the ratio of executive pay to worker pay is more that what exists in this country. So I don't think that is the problem.

Defenseman Emeritus said...

If AlphaLiberal and FLS really cared about poor people, they'd advocate a $1000/hour minimum wage.

Then we'd all be rich!

(What do you mean, "that's not how it works"? Are you some kind of evil, poor people-hating conservative?)


We have a winner.

Fen said...

The Tea Party "movement" is a creation of Republican lobbyists

Yes folks, he really is this stupid. Our very own AlphaLibtard.

former law student said...

Sometimes I can't tell if he's being serious or not.

Very serious. The minimum wage movement was a product of Christianity -- Christians in the early part of the 20th Century feared that if working girls could not live decently on their salaries, they would have to sell their bodies, jeopardizing their immortal souls and their chances of becoming good Christian wives and mothers.

Joe said...

Very serious. The minimum wage movement was a product of Christianity –

Cite please…any way it shows the limits of using your minister/holy book as an economics guide.

former law student said...

See page 45 for how the expenses of the working girl were calculated, by our neighbors to the north:

http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/view/2488/2891

Joe -- read "Our Sisters' Keepers" here:

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/46/v46i05p189-200.pdf

former law student said...

The minimum wage has only resulted in reduced employment for young people, especially black males.


Pogo -- assume you had an unlimited supply of young black men who would cost you nothing to employ. How would you employ them?

bagoh20 said...

"Christians in the early part of the 20th Century feared that if working girls could not live decently on their salaries, they would have to sell their bodies, jeopardizing their immortal souls and their chances of becoming good Christian wives and mothers."

Well, I guess it backfired. That's a primary characteristic of most regulation.

former law student said...

bago2h asserts that prostitution increased after minimum wage laws were enacted. I wonder where he found that bit of data.

Joe said...

Pogo -- assume you had an unlimited supply of young black men who would cost you nothing to employ. How would you employ them?

I’m sorry this “answer” came thru garbled and stupid. Please explain it more fully.

bagoh20 said...

"Pogo -- assume you had an unlimited supply of young black men who would cost you nothing to employ. How would you employ them?"

This is a question liberals in government ask themselves every day. So far they have come up with welfare and crime. I'd prefer they get a minimum wage job where they would learn to work and support themselves, rather than what they are learning now.

AllenS said...

assume you had an unlimited supply of young black men who would cost you nothing to employ. How would you employ them?"

How would you like being a Congressman walking down the sidewalk and a former law student with a camera came up to you and asked this question.

Would you shove the camera up his ass?

Pogo said...

Cute slavery question, fls.

Surely you should recognize that being unemployed -but guaranteed a minimum wage for a job that never materializes- is merely welfare slavery, with the Democratic party Senators the owners ...again..

AlphaLiberal said...

Here is that Tea Party darling Rand Paul saying he could give a shit if Kentucky's mountains are leveled and their "hollers" filled for coal, coal, coal:

"I think whoever owns the property can do with the property as they wish, and if the coal company buys it from a private property owner and they want to do it, fine. The other thing I think is that I think coal gets a bad name, because I think a lot of the land apparently is quite desirable once it’s been flattened out. As I came over here from Harlan, you’ve got quite a few hills. I don’t think anybody’s going to be missing a hill or two here and there. "

And the downstream neighbors dealing with all that pollution and runoff? Fuck `em! Pollution is a right!

The more the American people get to know the bizarre ideologies lurking behind Tea Party, they less they support the TPers.

Joe said...

Hye AL, did you know that the people of Apalachia kllive in the MOUNTAINS, with very little flat land...and that after mining the land is often times flattish? And that land owners do, in fact, ask for a waiver to the Approximate Original Contours requirement for mine reclamation? And that Pikeville's, quite nice, public park and recreation area is built on just such an unreclaimed piece of surface mine?

Or that pollution downstream has NOTHING to do with mountain top removal, and that even under PRE-20thc. law downstream land holders had recourse to polution remediation?

Of course not...because that would require you to know a little bit beyond talking points.

Scott M said...

The more the American people get to know the bizarre ideologies lurking behind Tea Party, they less they support the TPers.

Cite polls showing that this is even remotely true and, just for fun, please explain how your point of view is somehow devoid of bizarre ideology. I believe your side is the one that came up with political correctness.

Your turn, Mr. Judge-Not.

AlphaLiberal said...

Earlier I made the by-now-obvious point that the Tea Party is created by elites such as Republican lobbyists.

Case in Point:

FreedomWorks Launches Nationwide “Tea Party” Tour

Freedomworks is run by Republican lobbyists Dick Armey. Armey lobbies for many big businesses.

This has been but one example. there are more.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreedomWorks for starters.

AlphaLiberal said...

Oh, can't believe I forgot to mention how much Fox News has used their network to heavily promote the Tea Party movement.

They've been so far over the top there's nothing that comes close to direct aid to a political/electoral movement from media establishment.

AlphaLiberal said...

pollution downstream has NOTHING to do with mountain top removal

This is news to me. Because it's bullshit.

Study links stream pollution to higher cancer rates

"West Virginians who live near streams polluted by coal mining are more likely to die of cancer, according to a first-of-its kind study published by researchers at West Virginia University and Virginia Tech.

The study provides the first peer-reviewed look at the relationship between the biological health of Appalachian streams and public health of coalfield residents."

Hey, you missed a talking point!

Some coal industry officials have been especially critical of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's efforts to tighten water quality guidelines for mining, saying it amounts to putting the health of mayflies ahead of jobs.

Yeah, coal has been so wonderful for coal workers. Why look at all the prosperity in Appalachia!

Joe said...


Yeah, coal has been so wonderful for coal workers. Why look at all the prosperity in Appalachia!

OK, without the coal mining there'd BE NOTHING of economic value in Appalachia...

Poverty has many cuases, corruption, failure to value education, and the like, all in place in Appalachia.

Joe said...

And it doesn't faollow that MTR equals downstream pollution...you confuse to ideas. Nice try, thank you for playing.

AlphaLiberal said...

Here are some more photos of mountaintop removal for all those mountain-removal-loving teabaggers out there.

Gee, why would anyone think carving off mountaintops could hurt the streams?

And, do you think it damages streams at all be buried under tons of tailings?

bagoh20 said...

"there's nothing that comes close to direct aid to a political/electoral movement from media establishment."

Barack Obama - One man - endless media support including all but one network

Tea Party - millions of Americans - one network - endless media attacks by the rest.

bagoh20 said...

"Gee, why would anyone think carving off mountaintops could hurt the streams? "

Yea, I wish the government never would have done that just to build a highway system. Damn raping of the environment by big government needs to be stopped.

Scott M said...

The more the American people get to know the bizarre ideologies lurking behind Tea Party, they less they support the TPers.

You still haven't answered how you arrive at this conclusion, AL. Please cite or stop making unfounded, sweeping generalizations.

AlphaLiberal said...

Joe argues the intensely counter-intuitive:

And it doesn't faollow that MTR equals downstream pollution...you confuse to ideas.

I can't believe you would say that. By all means explain how blasting and pushing mountaintops into valleys is done WITHOUT damaging streams?

These advocates disagree.

AlphaLiberal said...

Mountaintop removal lands Gauley River in West Virginia on list of nation’s ‘most endangered’ rivers. Direct link to that post

The post right after that includes well-deserved bashing of a Democrat in the link.

AC245 said...

You still haven't answered how you arrive at this conclusion, AL. Please cite or stop making unfounded, sweeping generalizations.

AlphaLiberal remains a reliable cut & paste propaganda conduit.

But he's not very bright, and he's never actually able to make or support an argument on his own.

If the questions you ask aren't covered on his crib sheet, his reaction is to just start dumping more random propaganda clips into the thread to muddy the waters.

AlphaLiberal said...

You still haven't answered how you arrive at this conclusion, AL. Please cite or stop making unfounded, sweeping generalizations.

Actually, I have. See:

* Support for armed militias from many, not all, in TP.

* TP fave Rand Paul and his support for allowing racial discrimination by private businesses.

* TP fave Sharron Angle and her support for: privatizing or repealing Social Security, the un-American Oath Keepers, for outlawing alcohol, against flouride in water...

* Oh,fuck it. You'll just deny anything anyway. Facts be damned.

AlphaLiberal said...

AC245, I copy and paste text from other places to back up what I'm saying. Then, I provide links, again, to back up what I'm saying. To back up my own arguments.

I know all this fact-based debate is an entirely foreign concept to you. You don't bother basing your arguments in reality so you would have nowhere to copy from, besides the right wing echo chamber.

And I didn't put one comment in the post you linked to. What's that supposed to prove? (Besides that you don't know how to make a point).

Tea Party at Perrysburg said...

While I agree wholeheartedly that Republicans shouldn't assume the tea party mantle, I also think voters should be very, very, very, very hesitant to think there is any such thing as a conservative Democrat who will vote accordingly.

AlphaLiberal said...

And that link you pass along is boring as hell. All sides do it! It's called GETTING PEOPLE INVOLVED.

Welcome to the real world, AC245. I know, I know, you can't stay long.

AlphaLiberal said...

Scott M, another example of Tea Party extremism is the deep hatred of government from the Tea Party bunch.

When they're not cashing their government benefit checks, that is.

Scott M said...

You're acting like a child so I'll try to be as simplistic as possible. In direct challenge to your statement The more the American people get to know the bizarre ideologies lurking behind Tea Party, they less they support the TPers I'm asking you to show evidence that the TP movement is loosing support.

AC245 said...

AC245, I copy and paste text from other places to back up what I'm saying. Then, I provide links, again, to back up what I'm saying. To back up my own arguments.

Yes, AlphaLiberal, we're all well aware that your sole contribution to this blog is to cut and paste various JournoList droppings into the comment threads here.

And that link you pass along is boring as hell. All sides do it! It's called GETTING PEOPLE INVOLVED.

AlphaLiberal, canned talking points are indeed "boring as hell", which is why your comment sludge is so tedious. But all sides do not do it, and while it does "get[] people involved", the only thing it involves them in is "mindless repetition of democratic talking points."

AC245 said...

AlphaLiberal, are you in favor of a $1000/hour minimum wage so we can all be rich?

Or do you hate poor working people?

AllenS said...

Flatten some of those mountain tops off and build some NASCAR Race Tracks. Some shooting ranges would be pretty cool too.

AllenS said...

Flattening mountain tops is a shovel ready project.

AlphaLiberal said...

More Republican racism:

"It looks like Eric Holder said that white people in America are cowards when it comes to race. [LIE, see quote below] And I don't know what the basis of that is, but I'm not a coward when it comes to that, and I'm happy to talk about these things and I think we should. But the president has demonstrated that he has a default mechanism in him that breaks down the side of race — on the side that favors the black person."

It is what it is. Racist.

And racism is a serious problem that should not be brushed aside.

AlphaLiberal said...

What Holder actually said (at link):

"in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards."

Maybe Rep King thinks our nation only consists of the white people. Those non-whites? un-American!

AllenS said...

From 'Dreams of My Father',
"I CEASED TO ADVERISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT THE AGE OF12 OR 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites"

From Dreams of My Father, " I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE".

AlphaLiberal said...

Trafficking in lies, are we in a desperate attempt to Accuse the Black Guy of Racism?

The second line was from an article about Obama, not from a book by Obama.

So says Snopes.

As far as the first one, so what? You demand young black men seek to ingratiate themselves with whites? WTF?

"You! Blackie! Ingratiate yourself with me!"

AlphaLiberal said...

To be cleared, the "PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE" quote was written in an article in The American Fucking Conservative and not by Barack Obama.

More shameless lying from the right wing. It's what they do!

AlphaLiberal said...

To be clear, the "PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE" quote by AllenS above was written in an article in The American Fucking Conservative magazine and not by Barack Obama.

More shameless lying from the right wing. It's what they do!

Scott M said...

Cite your proof, Alib, that support is weakening for the tea party movement.

traditionalguy said...

Alpha...I agree with your facts at 2:45, except I cannot understand the point in calling the Oath Keepers "un-American", unless stopping that movement is important to Obama's plans to impose military martial law at some point. I remember that branding them as terrorists was Obama's first act over at Homeland Security.

AC245 said...

As I pointed out earlier:

AlphaLiberal remains a reliable cut & paste propaganda conduit.

But he's not very bright, and he's never actually able to make or support an argument on his own.

If the questions you ask aren't covered on his crib sheet, his reaction is to just start dumping more random propaganda clips into the thread to muddy the waters.