June 18, 2010

At the Duckweed Café...

DSC_0053

... you can talk about anything you want.

114 comments:

peter hoh said...

Quack.

JAL said...

Well move my comment from the post below 2 minutes ago up here!

I was looking for a place to be tangential.

Paul said...

Why is it that when Arizona passes an immigration law that is consistent with the (unenforced) federal law, the federal government wants to sue it, but when municipalities all over the US declare themselves "sanctuary cities" proclaiming that they will flout federal immigration law, the federal government couldn't care less?

Has a reporter asked the president this? Actually, I'd be curious to see a reporter ask born-again border enforcer John McCain explain the inconsistency between the position he takes now and the one he was vigorously defending 3 years ago.

Why has the federal government through the last few administrations been determined not to control our borders despite strong public sentiment in favor of doing so?

Fred4Pres said...

USA got a bad call.

Freeman Hunt said...

A cafe for politicians and bureaucrats? Oh, duckweed. Like the bird.

Almost Ali said...

"If" a 5th Column were operating in the White House, it would operate exactly the way the Obama administration has been operating.

What's astounding about this is that a majority of the electorate didn't see it coming, not even from a foot away.

victoria said...

Oh, Lakers and basketball. Lovely for a minute.


Vicki from Pasadena

kent said...

"There is a lot moaning, groaning, and gnashing of teeth coming from the lefties these days. They are battering Barack Obama like a piñata; but just a few months ago they proclaimed him to be the Messiah, a Savior, a combination of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Martin Luther King, a sort of god, and even, according to Chris Matthews, '...the last Kennedy brother.' (Why Matthews thinks this is a compliment is mystery to me, but there you have it.)

[...]

"Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Howard Fineman, James Carville, and Maureen Dowd simply cannot believe the incompetence of the man they once deified.

"I have a question for you people. There are those of us who questioned and criticized Obama in the past, and we were routinely characterized as Nazis, racists, rednecks, and worse; now that you enlightened people are joining the chorus, does that make you Nazis, racists, rednecks, etc? If not, why not? Please defend yourselves, preferably in writing, and be specific in your answers."

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Paul: VERY good question.

My wife's green card says right on it that Federal law requires her to carry it at all times.

@duckweed: Get the hell out of my fish tank. I've seen people get duckweed because they think it's cute: they soon regret it.

rhhardin said...

Road hat.

lemondog said...

Tony Hayward says I'm sorry after all that we've been through, I will make it up to you. I promise to.

The Chicago way.

edutcher said...

The Blonde went for her biopsy yesterday. The doctor told her the little crusty things on her back (never more than a very few, thank Heaven, and the kind of thing you have when your back needs a scratch) were the same as the thing on her chest. Just what she didn't need to hear.

She's had a couple of very bad sunburns over the course of her life (she just has been marooned out in the sun a couple of times), so it's a very good thing she's no sun worshipper. Results Monday.

PS Ali, whaddya mean 'if'? And Congress is the same.

lemondog said...

re: Road Hat, did Queen Elizabeth make an early US visit over your way?

Hope you took to restore it. She may come looking for it.

lemondog said...

Duckweed is an important high-protein food source for waterfowl and also is eaten by humans in some parts of Southeast Asia (as khai-nam). Sometimes it is cited as an overlooked source for application as a food for a hungry world that produces more protein than soybeans

The McDuck. A duckweed burger with cheddar cheese, bacon, cole slaw, tomato and pickle on sesame seed bun.

Yum!

Unemployment said...

Has anyone ever studied their ass off for an exam for an entire semester, only to get a shit grade on the exam because it didn't reward your work or the knowledge you acquired, but instead judged students on how closely their "analysis" (aka bullshit) aligned with the professor's ideas?

Omaha1 said...

In other news, Andrew Sullivan discovers "independent confirmation" that Sarah Palin really did call Trig "retarded"!

Well, maybe not...

The Odd Lies of Andrew Sullivan, Ctd.

wv: downhoos ???

Almost Ali said...

Edutcher asks...
whaddya mean 'if'?

I mean, when you lead a Marxist to water, he'll poison it. And when you lead the same Marxist to the White House, he'll destroy the country. Which is exactly what Obama is doing.

And I'm very concerned about our military, that they are now complicit in the destruction. That the brass age of the Scots-Irish is over, their leadership replaced by punks and cowards.

SadeRa盈君iford0412 said...

看看blog放鬆一下,工作累死了....<.................................................................

淑慧 said...

出遊不拘名勝,有景就是好的..................................................................

Pogo said...

Straight-line winds of 50-60 mph blew down a tree in our back yard Friday night, so I got to buy a new toy, a chainsaw.

Most fun toy EVAR!





I do need to get some"chainsaw chaps", but the sexual connotation makes me hesitate.

GMay said...

But....but....but....Obama is a centrist!!!

(Robert Cook in seven words or less.)

Big Mike said...

@kent, you ask a good question there at the end. I suppose the response from Olbermann, Dowd, Chris "Tingles" Matthews, and the rest would be some variant on the "premature anti-fascism" slur put out by Senator Joe McCarthy, back in the day.

"The Talking Skull" Carville is a special case. He is a longtime Clinton loyalist, and it would not surprise me to see him tearing down Obama to pave the way for Hillary to "save the party" in 2012.

@Unemployment, a good reason to go into engineering, math, or the hard sciences.

Big Mike said...

@Pogo, if that chainsaw slips and you're not wearing protective clothing ...

kent said...

"[The] Detroit school board president submitted a letter of resignation earlier this week after it was reported that he was regularly masturbating in front of the superintendent."

Yet another high-ranking official incapable of appropriately handling his staff.

Big Mike said...

[Making the sign to ward off the evil eye in the general direction of GMay, who is trying to summon demons]

WV: cowbile: what Maureen Dowd writes in her column

AllenS said...

Pogo,

Depending on how much you're going to use the chainsaw, safety chaps are a good idea. What kind of chainsaw did you purchase? I have a Stihl 290, and it's awesome.

Hagar said...

The broadcast news have been going on for two months now about the impact of the oil spill on "the little people" along the Gulf Coast.
Why is it a big @#! deal that the BP chairman tries to assure us that BP also cares about "the small people"?

Now, "small people" is a translation from the Swedish "småfolk" and has a bit of a 19th century flair about it, but in this context it means exactly the same thing as Katie Couric's "little people." Is it just a question of copyright, and hey! you can't infringe on our schtick?

Big Mike said...

I'm taking issue with Peggy Noonan's column. As The Economist put it thirty years ago with the dead soldiers and burned out aircraft of Carter's "Operation Eagle Claw" in the Iranian desert, "luck runs with skill."

To put it another way, every president must deal with crises, that's part of the job description. I argue that this president took what should have been a problem, and let it turn into a crisis through lack of leadership.

Barack Obama is not "snakebit." He doesnt' know how to handle problems, and he's unwilling to look back at predecessors and learn from how they handled problems.

Besides. I read somewhere that snakes don't bite their own kind.

Pogo said...

@AllenS:

Just a Stihl MS 180. But it was hilarious fun; I ended up working about 2 more hours than I intended because it was such a blast.

After it was over, I was looking around for stuff to saw. Nada. Then I remembered we have to go to the river next week. Ha!

AllenS said...

Stihl is a good brand.

Pogo said...

Bought it at a small engine repair shop, same price as other brands, but he gave me 20 minutes of instruction. Free lessons!

New said...

I was listening to David Brooks (who is really not in the GOP and is trying to get a Pulitzer) on PBS and Mark Shields (a terrific commentator - who should get a Pulitzer). It occurred to me that they were missing the point with respect to who is up or down this week.

The GOP is down and out. See Barton. Even when they get a diamond (gulf war oil and BP), they screw it up. It stands to reason that no one will be able to stand for election in 2012 from GOP. They are digging their own funerals. They always did and will always do.

Face it. We are in great hands from till Jan. 2016. Then it will be others currently support the administration for another 8 years.

GOP is in the past. There has not been a week where one GOP leader does not dig her or his funeral.

Hagar said...

And the plain meaning of Joe Barton's remarks was that citizens or corporations that "commit a legitimate wrong" should be subject to legal prosecution in the courts, and not to be "shook down" Chicago-style and invited to "pay up" in order to avoid such prosecution.

dbp said...

Pogo,

The 20 minutes of lessons will save you more risk of injury than all safety gear combined.

I get by with boots (steel toe are best), jeans, safety glasses, ear plugs and gloves.

bagoh20 said...

A chainsaw can simply and effective turn an afternoon into a bildungsroman for a man or a woman.

Enjoy your journey. Excalibur!!!

bagoh20 said...

A chainsaw can simply and effectively turn an afternoon into a bildungsroman for a man or a woman.

Enjoy your journey. Excalibur!!!

AllenS said...

Twice I've had the chain catch my pants leg. Once it put a notch in my shin, and the other time just tore a hole in the pants. This spring while wearing my safety chaps the chain caught my right leg close to my knee. Put a 4" slice in the chaps. Saved me a big ouchie. Safety glasses are also a must. I ruined 3 chains this spring cutting into nails and staples that have probably been there for 40-50 years, and were completely grown over with electric wire insulators and hog wire and barb wire. One chain broke completely off and when they come off at a high rate of speed... look out!

GMay said...

Safety lessons? Bah! Several years ago I took down a dead tree in my front yard with a borrowed chainsaw and I didn't need no steenking lessons!

Much like Pogo though, the job took longer than I thought, but for two reasons - 1) I had no idea how long the job would take, and 2) it was a blast!!!

Fred4Pres said...

I disagree with Rush in I have zero sympathy with BP (I agree with Rush that the Administration and the Democrats are just posturing). Tony Hayward reminds me of one of the British managers in Mad Men (maybe the guy who got his foot cut off by the John Deere mower?). Anyway, BP was smart to get him out of there.

In a way, Hayward is lucky. If he were Japanese, Hayward would commit sepuku, after being ritually raped by an octopus. A symbolic sacrifice on behalf of the BP organization.

GMay said...

Big Mike said: "[Making the sign to ward off the evil eye in the general direction of GMay, who is trying to summon demons]"

I know, I know. I'm an evil bastard.

I readily admit to my petty addiction to internet troll bashing. It's really my only vice.

wv: exkwambr - try that one!

Fred4Pres said...

GMay, a guy I work with did that last year. He ended up almost dying when the tree did things he did not anticipate. An emergency heli flight to the ER, two months in intensive care, two near death events while there (full crash cart, etc.), and a year of rehabilitation later, he is just starting to recover. The various medications have totally screwed up his short term memory--although that is slowly coming back too.

I have a few trees that need work. I am calling a tree service.

SMGalbraith said...

Here we have one of the biggest environmental disasters in our country, the America people livid at corporations, and the so-called Marxist President hasn't take a single step to nationalize the oil industry.

Could the knuckleheads (and I use that term affectionately...sometimes) who keep saying he's a Marxist or socialist explain that?

JAL said...

Oh, New.

Drop dead.

(Not literally literally.)

Is moby your middle name?

I once thought there was no one in 2008 ...

Paul Ryan (good money smarts), Bobby Jindal (looking better and better. He would have waived Jones in a heart beat.) Chris Christie! (A man who addresses his contituents as adults [a charming anachronism, yes?] and doesn't speak doublespeak.)

There is hope on the horizon and it isn't Deepwater's

edutcher said...

Almost Ali said...

Edutcher asks...
whaddya mean 'if'?

I mean, when you lead a Marxist to water, he'll poison it. And when you lead the same Marxist to the White House, he'll destroy the country. Which is exactly what Obama is doing.

And I'm very concerned about our military, that they are now complicit in the destruction. That the brass age of the Scots-Irish is over, their leadership replaced by punks and cowards.


Not arguing, but I think you mean the some of the top brass are complicit. The rank and file are fine. Also remember that, after the Scotch-Irish got their heads handed to them at places like Antietam and Gettysburg, the Irish English and Germans, as well as a lot of other people, who beat them have done a pretty good job for the last 150 years

GMay said...

F4P said: "I have a few trees that need work. I am calling a tree service."

I may give the impression that I was waving a chainsaw around like Bruce Campbell in the Evil Dead 3, but in reality I had a fairly detailed plan and sat through so many goddamned safety classes in the Marines that I shit safety.

GMay said...

SMGal said: "Could the knuckleheads (and I use that term affectionately...sometimes) who keep saying he's a Marxist or socialist explain that?"

Day ain't over yet.

(I'm not really sure, but is your question actually serious?)

SMGalbraith said...

Day ain't over yet.

(I'm not really sure, but is your question actually serious?)


Yeah, a bit light-hearted but at the bottom serious.

I think it's absurd to say that he's a Marxist.

If he's a Marxist (for the sake of the argument) then the people around him must be willing to go along with his Marxist agenda.

So, Bernanke is silently going along with Marxist policies? And Larry Summers? And Joe Biden? And Tim Geithner? And Bob Gates? And David Petraeus?

All of these people are betraying the country and going along with Marxist policies?

That's quite an indictment.

It's also flatout a smear - one is accusing these people of some pretty serious stuff.

And I don't believe it for a second.

rick said...

Pogo

We live near Allegheny Nat. Forest...chains saws are a way of life up here. I have used a Stihl o38 for 20 years. I seen the after effects of several chain saw accidents. None were pretty.

I have used a helmet and face shield after a co-worker took one across the bridge of his nose.

I bought chaps last year (lightweight kevlar) after my 80 year old neighbor slipped and nearly amputated his lower leg. Fortunately I remembered how to apply a tourniquet while the helicopter was en route to us.

Your stihl has a DVD on chain saw safety...it is worth. it.

rick said...

Should read "stihl dealer" has a DVD

Fred4Pres said...

GMay, be safe. Semper fi.

The problem with my trees is they are big, high, and you have to climb well above normal ladder range to do the work. It is one of those things, either you do it for a living or you are an amature. If they can be felled first, I could handle them on the ground. It is in the air it gets tricky.

Fred4Pres said...

amateur. My bad.

Hagar said...

SMG,

Karl Marx stated that he was not a "marxist."

Obama is from Chicago by way of hippiedom, Harvard, and the junior faculty lounge.

AllenS said...

Speaking of bad writing... I said:

and were completely grown over with electric wire insulators and hog wire and barb wire.

Sounds like the trees were over grown with this stuff. I hope everyone knew what I meant...

SMGalbraith said...

Karl Marx stated that he was not a "marxist."

Thanks but that doesn't answer my question.

To wit, Obama can't carry our Marxist policies unless the people around him go along.

So, to accuse him of enacting a Marxist agenda one has to include in that a lot of good people.

All of these people, then, are betraying the country? Or going along with Marxist policies for their own career interest?

That's a very very serious charge.

I'm a conservative but too many people on my side are arguing like leftists. E.g., the personal is the political and everything is politics and if you disagree with me you're not just wrong, you're a bad person.

Well include me out of that club.

Dead Julius said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dead Julius said...

Checking my e-mail this morning, item #1 was a message from Townhall.com with the title "Survey: Do you support the Homosexual Agenda?"

The e-mail details the efforts of "Radial Homosexuals":

The Radical Homosexuals claim you and other pro-family Americans actually now support same-sex marriage, special job preferences for homosexuals and promotion of the homosexual lifestyle in schools.

[...]

*** Special job rights for homosexuals and lesbians. Businesses may have to adopt hiring quotas to protect themselves from lawsuits. Every homosexual fired or not hired becomes a potential federal civil rights lawsuit.

Radical homosexuals will terrorize day care centers, hospitals, churches and private schools. Traditional moral values will be shattered by federal law.

*** Same-sex marriages and adoptions. Wedding-gown clad men smooching before some left-wing clergy or state official is just the beginning.

You'll see men hand-in-hand skipping down to adoption centers to "pick out" a little boy for themselves.


Terrorizing day care centers and "picking out" little boys for themselves? Do you get the subtext there?

Nothing like bigoted hate to go with morning coffee.

But, then again, Obama is a Marxist so all of this is just a-okay, right?

rick said...

You must ask yourself, why do very wealthy people spend enormous sums of money to run for congress.

The answer is crystal clear, at least to me. They have satisfied their lust for money: now they need to satisfy their lust for power. Power to control. If you will notice, every law these Marxists pass somehow does not apply to them.

Cafe standards for the plebes, but not for Pelosi's jet.

Mandatory gov't healthcare for the serfs, but not the same healthcare for the congress critters.

Grilling of BP, but not for the gov't regulators. An oil company can't sneeze over open water without the Feds approving it.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Dickweed

Fred4Pres said...

Townhall sometimes caters to all that social agenda. I know there are mostly good and some (too many) bad parents. Sexual orientation is not the determinative factor.

rick said...

Moi???

Hagar said...

I have never read Karl Marx, so I should be careful (I used to have a copy of "Das Kapital," but never got beyond the first 12-15 pages, and I have read through the Durants' "History of Civilization" twice, got 2/3 of the way through "Wealth of Nations" and halfway through "Forever Amber, but "Das Kapital" was just too much for me.)

However, I think Karl Marx meant that he was just a scholar and by no means meant to advocate the use of force to achieve what he thought was the inevitable historical outcome.

People throw around terms like "marxist" and "socialist" with no idea of what they mean, since this country never had a "hard left." "Socialism" here has always been a plaything for our self-appointed "intellectual elite," and I do think Obama runs with that crowd, whatever the details of what he personally thinks might be. We do not really know; as far as I am concerned, he is still "a stranger in the house."

What he has said and done so far looks to me like it has a lot to do with ideas that were quite popular - and not only among the "intelligentsia" - back in the 1920's and early 30's as "an alternative to socialism."

Beth said...

@Pogo, if that chainsaw slips and you're not wearing protective clothing ...

There are sexual connotations to that, too, Pogo!

After the flooding post-Katrina, one of my friends had a lot of trees to deal with at her mother's property, and buying a chain saw was, according to her, a rare bright spot in those dark days.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Moi???

No reference to anyone in particular. I just thought it was a funny word to mention in light of the subject of the post.

HDHouse said...

Not going to steal the thread but tomorrow is father's day and everyone on here had one - regardless.

it never hurts to be nice to someone even for an instant.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Although your 11:03 post, now that I read it, is pretty retarded.

rick said...

The battle cry of the Marxists in congress has been and always will be "tax the rich". Raise high-end tax rates.

Notice they never want to tax "wealth". That is, already accumulated wealth. Then it would apply to them and their trust funds. Can't have that.

One of the Kennedy boys proudly spouted off that he never had to work a day in his life...thanks to the trust fund(s).

bagoh20 said...

It does not disprove Obama is a Marxist just because he does not foolishly wear it on his sleeve. He can't realistically act like a Marxist would with unlimited power. It is still a democracy here.

It seems clear from his history and associations that he thinks socialism is a preferable method of government and if given a choice, would probably prefer a Marxist state to a laissez faire one.

The important thing is which way he pushes the nation left or right.

The majority of nations that have been deeply experimenting with leftist economics are now moving more toward market solutions as their experiments run into the 50 - 70 year barrier when they just run out of other peoples money, forced labor and patience.

Sure Obama could go a lot faster if he was a powerful Marxist, but he's going faster than anyone ever has before and it's the wrong direction. Marxist, Socialist, Progressive; it's all the same mistakes with different methodology, but the same failed assumptions.

Where has it worked without the U.S. propping it up? Who will prop us up while we waste away on the experiment?

lewsar said...

@dead julius: you must admit that radial homosexuals are so much worse than the old bias-ply kind.

Fred4Pres said...

Praeger's test on whether something will cause more good will or less.

rick said...

Ritmo

I learned a long time ago not cast pearls before swine. Thanks for confirming that.

Please ignore any future comments, I don't want you to choke.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The level of removal of all these comments, theorizing on Marxism and the like, from the day-to-day concerns of ordinary people, is wide enough to drive a Mack truck through.

Pogo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pogo said...

Beth, I am getting chainsaw chaps for Father's day.

My wife didn't cotton to my suggestion to wear just the chaps, though. Somehow it didn't make her knees go all rubbery.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Please ignore any future comments, I don't want you to choke.

Your rhetoric is enough to choke a horse.

rick said...

Your comments contain so much substance.

SMGalbraith said...

In one of his last essays (after WW II), Orwell examined the charge of "fascist" made in political debates.

After examining its usage, he concluded that it really had no substantive meaning. There wasn't anything "fascist" in the policies being advocated and attacked. But the word carried so much emotional freight that it was a handy club to wield. And wield it they did.

Instead of Marxist, statist or social democrat seems perfectly apt to me. Good old fashioned "liberal" even better.

But like "fascist", they don't have the same effect.

Dead Julius said...

@Paul-

Why is it that when Arizona passes an immigration law that is consistent with the (unenforced) federal law, the federal government wants to sue it, but when municipalities all over the US declare themselves "sanctuary cities" proclaiming that they will flout federal immigration law, the federal government couldn't care less?

The issue is not what the law does to illegal immigrants, but what it does to legal immigrants and especially to U.S. Citizens who look Mexican!

If you look like a foreigner, that is reasonable suspicion for the gov't to detain you. And you cannot be released until the federal government has confirmed that you are in the country legally.

Of course you can carry documents around with you to avoid the hassle:

A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: (a) a valid Arizona driver license; (b) a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; (c) a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or (d) any valid federal, state, or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance."

So now American citizens who are non-white have to carry their papers around. Oh sure, they don't have to, but if they don't they'll be thrown in the slammer until Big Brother verifies their legal status.

Do you think the government is going to be accurate in determining legal status? Do you think they'll be timely? Nah and nah... they'll make wrong assessments, and they'll probably take weeks to do it, and it'll probably cost the poor schlops caught up in the net thousands of dollars in lawyer fees, lost work, etc... Or do you Righties think the government is (HA HA HA HA!) competent?

There is nothing new for non-citizen legal immigrants (like Green Card holders), who were already required by federal law to carry around their paperwork.

Fred4Pres said...

Ace had this gem on maps and graphics of where people of moving and going. An example of where people are happy or not?

Beth said...

Pogo, she just wants a little mystery. Try chainsaw chaps, and a bow.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Please don't get me wrong, Rick. It's nothing personal. We've never gotten into it before (as far as I remember) and from what I can gather, you seem like a decent guy.

I'm just saying that if you want to keep up all this talk of Marxism, you should do it - if it makes you happy.

I don't see what dead sea gulls, bankrupt fisherman and an unsustainable energy agenda have to do with 19th-century philosophers, and doubt that many other people do, either. But if you think that's the kind of talk that makes for meaningful political discourse in 2010 America, give it a whirl.

But I maintain that you're only sating some silly habits.

Fred4Pres said...

Here is the interactive map from Forbes. This is fun. Does your county suck or do people want to go there?

Dead Julius said...

edit:

@Paul-

Why is it that when Arizona passes an immigration law that is consistent with the (unenforced) federal law, the federal government wants to sue it, but when municipalities all over the US declare themselves "sanctuary cities" proclaiming that they will flout federal immigration law, the federal government couldn't care less?

The issue is not what the law does to illegal immigrants, but what it does to legal immigrants and especially to U.S. Citizens who look Mexican!

If you look like a foreigner, that is reasonable suspicion for the gov't to detain you. Then if they develop a probable cause that you are in the country illegally, you can be arrested. (Probably cause = you speak the Wetback language!) And you cannot be released until the federal government has confirmed that you are in the country legally.

Of course you can carry documents around with you to avoid the hassle:

A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: (a) a valid Arizona driver license; (b) a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; (c) a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or (d) any valid federal, state, or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance."

So now American citizens who are non-white have to carry their papers around. Oh sure, they don't have to, but if they don't they'll be thrown in the slammer until Big Brother verifies their legal status.

Do you think the government is going to be accurate in determining legal status? Do you think they'll be timely? Nah and nah... they'll make wrong assessments, and they'll probably take weeks to do it, and it'll probably cost the poor schleps caught up in the net thousands of dollars in lawyer fees, lost work, etc... Or do you Righties think the government is (HA HA HA HA!) competent?

There is nothing new for non-citizen legal immigrants (like Green Card holders), who were already required by federal law to carry around their paperwork.

bagoh20 said...

Dead Julius,

The alternative is that nobody has to prove they are citizens. That's not working so well and the current federal law and that of many other states needs to be enforced or repealed, not ignored.

Dead Julius said...

@lewsar-

@dead julius: you must admit that radial homosexuals are so much worse than the old bias-ply kind.

Sorry, but I don't c your point.

Dead Julius said...

@bagoh20-

Then make everyone carry around their citizen-proving paperwork. A national ID card. Why not?

rick said...

Ritmo

Ritmo

Let me apologize for getting personal. I should not do that.

Where I am coming from is the now famous Rahm Emanuel quote: "never let a crisis go to waste" To me that translates into the gov't amassing more power....which troubles me greatly.

More power = more taxes = less freedom

Ritmo Brasileiro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dick said...

DJ,

How is this any different from any other country. When I was in Brazil we were told to keep a copy of our visa with us at all times. Lock up the original but keep a photocopy with us just in case.

If you are a legal you already have to keep a green card with you. That is federal law. If you are illegal we should just say you don't need to carry ID? Most citizens have a driver's license. That is an ID. How should that be any different for anyone else? The point is that we have a major problem here with illegals and you say that we should just disregard it. We should not ask people to prove who they are because it might inconvenience them and cause them emotional pain. Bull!!

rick said...

To quote one of the other liberals who frequent this site " I think I'll run along now".

I have some trees to cut (while it is still legal).

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

No problem, Rick. You have my apologies as well.

Regarding this:

Where I am coming from is the now famous Rahm Emanuel quote: "never let a crisis go to waste" To me that translates into the gov't amassing more power....which troubles me greatly.

I don't see why power can't be seen as a neutral thing. It's certainly a very easily generalized thing. Many things like it are also neutral. Money, for instance. What you do with it defines how "evil" or "good" it is - if we want to break things down that simplistically.

Fear of government power in itself is not a bad thing. But fearing that the government should have enough power to regulate at all seems a bit more complicated and problematic.

I don't see the argument that BP should be able to do what it did, or that AIG, etc., should have the power to do what they did, unfettered by government action, going very far.

Laws and the "power" to represent the public are not some mystical force that make Washington infinitely more evil than an interest that just pretends to speak for its shareholders.

Dead Julius said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bagoh20 said...

"Then make everyone carry around their citizen-proving paperwork. A national ID card. Why not?"

Generally we do. We carry a driver's license or State ID. I don't think I've been out of my house without one for more than a hand full of times in my entire adult life.

This law changes little for legal residents and citizens. It changes everything for illegal aliens. Incidentally, only if it's enforced. The similar laws all over the country would do the same if enforced.

GMay said...

SMG,

I'm really not sure why socialists never seem to appreciate being called socialist, but the label seems to have some sort of conspiracy theory ring connotation to it in the mainstream. If the shoe fits:

- Government control of student loans

- Government control of majority of U.S. Auto manufacturing

- Government control of financial industry

- Government control of health insurance industry

- Increase of the EITC to amount to net gain, which is flat out wealth redistribution.

- Bailouts

(Man this list can go on for awhile, but I'll stop here. A couple of these things were begun by Bush, but Obama has radically expanded them all)

Member of The New Party

Had a look at his voting record other than "present"?

You also mention his appointees/advisors/entourage/associations:

William Ayers

Saul Alinsky

Rev Wright and "Liberation Theology"

Van Jones (gone now of course)

Valerie Jarrett

Or just check out a very quick roundup because I'm going to run out of space fast.

Groups that support him

Some quotes:

"So we're going to provide a $4,000 tuition credit, every student, every year, but, students, you're going to have to give back something in return. You're going to have to participate in community service. You're going to have to work in a homeless shelter, or a veteran's home, or an underserved school, or join the Peace Corps." - Barack Obama

"I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets." - Barack Obama (Dreams of My Father)

"Political discussions, the kind at Occidental had once seemed so intense and purposeful, came to take on the flavor of the socialist conferences I sometimes attended at Cooper Union" - Barack Obama (Dreams of My Father)

I can really do this all day, but you get my drift. I'm looking for evidence that the guy isn't a marxist/socialist quite frankly because my magic 8-ball says All Signs Point to "Yes".

Democratic Socialist to be specific, but it's still socialist.

GMay said...

F4P said: "Ace had this gem on maps and graphics of where people of moving and going."

I saw that over there too. I'd highly encourage any of our resident lefties/liberals to head over to AoSHQ on a frequent basis.

Hagar said...

DJ,

You and yours are full of it. The "proof of citizenship" required is your state driver's license, or such substitute I.D. as you have got from the state in order to cash checks, use your credit card, etc.
The reason to "stop and check" - other than speeding or other outright criminal behavior - is most likely driving with expired Chihuahua plates, which, come to think of it, is also a criminal offense.

And in southern Arizona - like the other border states - the cops are more than half Hispanic themselves, and so is the general population. This thing about stopping people because they "look Hispanic" is garbage here.

rick said...

Ritmo...

I guess I can't stay away.

"I don't see the argument that BP should be able to do what it did"

BP was not permitted to do what they did....and will pay through the nose for it. And they should.

My point was that gov't regulators were are all over this and it still occurred. More regulations aren't the answer. How about enforcing what we have now. (Immigration anyone?)

What was Obama's response?...shut down all deep water off-shore drilling and try to pass cap and trade. The latter is completely unrelated to the spill. Just an "opportunity".

Full disclosure: I drilled two oil wells on my 38 acre property 2 years ago. Zero spills.

AllenS said...

I just returned from a trip to Tractor Supply and I bought a safety helmet with face guard. It's made by Husqvarna. They make good chainsaws also.

Almost Ali said...

Edutcher:

Aside from the drones in Waziristan, which represents an existential threat to even the most ardent Marxists - Obama has done nothing but undermine the military. I contend he's not operating in a vacuum, that he's surrounded by a virtual cabal of Neville Chamberlains - be they military and/or civilian.

On the domestic front, the Marxist agenda is also firing on all cylinders, every move designed to confiscate, redistribute, and ultimately dissipate this nation's wealth. A form of stealth reparations meant to bring down the country.

And it has come to pass that Obama's motives are far less important than his destructive policies.

Yet, to many, the parable of duck is complex, so complex it defies the simple, standard, empirical explanation.

Dead Julius said...

By the standards in this thread, establishment Republicans should be considered Marxists too!

I'd explain myself more, but I have to get back to work on this beautiful sunny summer Saturday... I'm self-employed and the Republicans demand 15.3% of my income (or least the first $107K of it) for their pet program that shuffles money to their gray-haired political supporters. Meanwhile, the Republicans pretend that there is no long-term problem with this corrupt program, yet anyone who is my age and has a half a brain knows that it will be long broke before we reach the qualifying age...

Fucking Marxists!

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Dead Julius

If you look like a foreigner, that is reasonable suspicion for the gov't to detain you. Then if they develop a probable cause that you are in the country illegally, you can be arrested. (Probably cause = you speak the Wetback language!) And you cannot be released until the federal government has confirmed that you are in the country legally.

In the law you made up, maybe, but the Arizona law contains no such provision--and in fact FEDERAL law already requires LEGAL immigrants to carry their documents AT ALL TIMES.

I am married to one, I know. So don't give me this nonsense. My wife is not Mexican and obeys the law, so if the government screws up her paperwork she'll be deported, and no one is talking about amnesty for people from her country.

As for carrying papers with you, try telling a cop to shove next time he asks to see you ID and see what response you get.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57604-2004Jun21.html

The law in Nevada and in 187 other states requires all people to show ID if a cop stops you for a lawful reason.

Maybe you ought to find find out what the law ACTUALLY IS before you complain about it.

Gabriel Hanna said...

should be 18 states, not 187.

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Dead Julius:

http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/what-is-a-green-card.html

Unlike United States citizens who are not required to carry identification to prove their citizenship, permanent residents must carry their Green Card with them at all times. This is one of the many constitutional rights that United States citizens are entitled to. Before the September 11 terrorist attacks, the requirement to carry one's Green Card at all times was not strictly enforced when traveling within the United States. The only time the status of the permanent resident was checked was when traveling outside the United States. However, post September 11, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security now requires that permanent residents be able to show their Green Card or other document that will prove their legal status in the country at all times.

Barack Obama wants to sue Arizona for enforcing a law that he himself is required to enforce.

You don't get to pick and choose the laws you enforce, if you are elected to enforce the law. If you want the law changed, lobby Congress. Don't move to Arizona or the 18 other states that require you to show ID, or if you already live in one lobby you legislature or move out.

But letting Mexicans, and Mexicans only, off from obeying the law is a travesty. Complying with immigration law is expensive and troublesome; if we don't want it that way we are free to change it. It's not fair to people like me and my wife who have spent a great deal of time and money complying with the law, to just let one ethnicity off from obeying it.

It's especially not fair for people to distort what the law actually says.

Revenant said...

Could the knuckleheads (and I use that term affectionately...sometimes) who keep saying he's a Marxist or socialist explain that?

Actually, the whole "corporations must operate for the good of the nation or be forced into doing so" thing is closer to the was the fascists ran things than it is to socialism or communism.

Hagar said...

R,
Precisely.

Dead Julius said...

@Gabriel Hanna-

So are the police in Arizona scouting through the golf courses of Green Valley or Paradise Valley and checking if those white senior citizens are carrying ID, and arresting them until their immigration status is cleared by the federal government if not?

The fact is that there is effectively a new, unwritten law in Arizona: You must carry an ID with you at all times if you are a non-white person. Jogging? Golfing? Hiking? Bring your ID or you will end up in the slammer until the government says you can go on living your life; and even then there's always the possibility that they will screw up and make an incorrect determination.

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Dead Julius:

So are the police in Arizona scouting through the golf courses of Green Valley or Paradise Valley and checking if those white senior citizens are carrying ID, and arresting them until their immigration status is cleared by the federal government if not?

Are these white people breaking into the pool cabana? If they are, they have to show ID if the cops ask them. If the white people are playing golf, then the cops can't stop them for anything, now can they? And ff those white people are US permanent residents, they have to carry their green cards AT ALL TIMES, according to Barack Obama's Department of Homeland Security.

You are just making up laws. You're paying no attention to the law as written. A cop can't arrest you for NO REASON. He has to have a reason, and the Arizona law specifically says what those reasons can be.

You must carry an ID with you at all times if you are a non-white person. Jogging? Golfing? Hiking? Bring your ID or you will end up in the slammer until the government says you can go on living your life; and even then there's always the possibility that they will screw up and make an incorrect determination.

In other words, you admit you made this scenario up. The Arizona law is specifically limited to LAWFUL stops by the police, not made up ones for the purpose of hassling brown people.

And you have made no response whatever to the fact that my wife already has to carry her green card at all times, jogging, hiking, in our own house, whatever. That has been the FEDERAL law for permanent residents for decades.

You don't seem to care about that and you weren't nattering about this travesty twenty years ago, were you? Only when Arizona passes a LESS STRICT version of an existing law do you get your panties in a bunch.

I want to hear you admit that Barack Obama is already obligated to enforce a lway that requires LEGAL immigrants to carry their papers AT ALL TIMES.

Need to see the USCIS web page? Here you go:

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=f1903a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f1903a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD

If you are a permanent resident age 18 or older, you are required to have a valid green card in your possession at all times.

Argue with the real law, and not the one you make up.

Gabriel Hanna said...

@Dead Julius:

From the Arizona law:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/05/full-text-arizona-illegal-immigration-law-jan-brewer.html

The course of training established by the Board shall provide clear guidance to law enforcement officials regarding what constitutes reasonable suspicion, and shall make clear that an individual's race, color, or national origin alone cannot be grounds for reasonable suspicion to believe any law has been violated.

The law, as written, Dead Julius, which you could not be bothered to look up, specifically makes your paranoid fantasy of hassling brown people illegal.

GMay said...

DJ said: "I'd explain myself more, but I have to get back to work on this beautiful sunny summer Saturday... I'm self-employed and the Republicans demand 15.3% of my income (or least the first $107K of it) for their pet program that shuffles money to their gray-haired political supporters. Meanwhile, the Republicans pretend that there is no long-term problem with this corrupt program, yet anyone who is my age and has a half a brain knows that it will be long broke before we reach the qualifying age..."

There are plenty of Republicans that have problems with this stuff. I think you'll find plenty of conservatives and Republicans who have problems with the Democrat-liteness of establishment Repubs.

Dead Julius said...

@Gabriel Hanna-

I want to hear you admit that Barack Obama is already obligated to enforce a lway that requires LEGAL immigrants to carry their papers AT ALL TIMES.

Dude, I said exactly that earlier in this thread. Like at 11:37: "There is nothing new for non-citizen legal immigrants (like Green Card holders), who were already required by federal law to carry around their paperwork."

But no, you little attention whore, you want to draw special notice to the fact that your wife is a Green Card holder. Well, good for you! LOOK EVERYONE GABIREL HANNA'S WIFE IS A GREEN CARD HOLDER! Happy now?

And go ahead and believe that your government is all good and wonderful and doesn't detain people for senseless or at least different-than-stated reasons. Like a good Republican lapdog, keep on licking the face of authority and begging for the little scraps it gives to you...

Finally: You say the law was passed to deal with illegal immigration, but the new measures won't be based on "an individual's race, color, or national origin". Yeah, right. That's self-contradictory on the face of it. What amazing hypocrisy! You Republican boneheads write a law and say "don't do this" to make it appear constitutional, but then wink-wink nudge-nudge we don't really mean not to do that.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gabriel Hanna said...

@Dead Julius:

But no, you little attention whore, you want to draw special notice to the fact that your wife is a Green Card holder.

I have direct experience with immigration laws and procedures which you evidently do not have. That's the only reason I bring it up. Same reason I mention being adopted on the "birther" threads; I have direct experience of what a birth certificate really is which most people do not have.

You say the law was passed to deal with illegal immigration, but the new measures won't be based on "an individual's race, color, or national origin". Yeah, right. That's self-contradictory on the face of it.

Are you saying that illegal immigration is something only MEXICANS do? Seems you're into racial stereotypes.

I personally have met illegal immigrants from China and Vietnam and from Canada.

You Republican boneheads write a law and say "don't do this" to make it appear constitutional, but then wink-wink nudge-nudge we don't really mean not to do that.

So you've invented some kind of mind-reading device then.

Good to hear you admit that the law is explicitly written to forbid deporting people just because they are Mexican, and that Arizona cops would have to act illegally and be liable for civil penalties for doing so.

As for me, I want the law enforced fairly; you apparently don't.

SMGalbraith said...

Only in Obama's America: First they came for the pierogi..."

I may have to reconsider the Obama-as-Marxist characterization.

AllenS said...

Sixty Grit said...
Chainsaw chaps are gay. I run my Stihl 088 with a 3' bar wearing shorts and sneakers.

Do you have winter where you live? Or are you so tough that when the temp drops to 0º you can handle it? A 36" bar? What kind trees are you cutting that you'd need such a large bar? I smell BS.

Sixty Grit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.