May 14, 2010

It's the hotly anticipated Glenn Greenwald vs. Lawrence Lessig showdown!

The 2 have been fighting harshly in writing — see the "links mentioned" here — and now we can see them battle it out in real time:



ADDED: You can skip the first 9 minutes unless you want to hear: 1. 2 men murmur about civility or 2. Lessig's paper-shuffling that sounds like buildings being demolished.

24 comments:

Comrade X said...

1.2 men murmur about civility

that's harsh. even jon cryer gets credit for being half a man.

GMay said...

Is there a transcript of the BHTV stuff anywhere?

Anybody got a summary of what these two have been fighting about?

c3 said...

Anybody got a summary of what these two have been fighting about?

Who have we been obsessed with the past week?

(or maybe you've tried to "erase" it from your minds or maybe its a problem with your "emotional orientation" that you can't remember.)

Fred4Pres said...

I had to turn it off, and I did forward ahead to the nine minute mark. It was boring. Sorry.

David said...

"You can skip the first 9 minutes . . . "

Make it easier on yourself. Skip the entire thing. Law prof Inside Baseball.

Irene said...

I found the murmurings about civility interesting because they shed light on how people rationalize the polarization of our politics.

Greenwald: civility and respect are to be earned. People in our political culture who are chronically dishonest and espouse radical and dangerous ideas do not merit respect.

It sounds as though he's concluding, "If I find your views dishonest and radical, then my disagreements with you don't have to be civil or respectful."

(Notice also the appropriation of the word "radical" to characterize the opposition. Bill Kristol, that crazy radical.)

LarsPorsena said...

Mary and Nancy have a pillow fight.

Maguro said...

They should have had a 4-way BHTV showdown with Greenwald, Lessig, Rick Ellensburg and Thomas Ellers. It would have been pretty brilliant, I think.

rhhardin said...

Skipping the first nine minutes, but on the end of that -

Augustine defined charity (the soul-saving kind) as thinking the best of people rather than the worst.

The word got taken over to mean money, since there was an evolutionary force for that.

Curiously, charity's soul-saving character was taken to go with the meaning shift.

rhhardin said...

The President can do whatever he wants.

Congress can impeach and remove the President if they don't like it.

Then voters get the final say and remove either or both.

That's my theory of the checks and balances on the matter.

Penny said...

The most interesting part of their discussion was not about Kagan, but the last ten minutes about campaign financing reform. Both clearly said they were let down by Obama who said he intended to change how business in Washington DC took place, while then going about his own business the same way it has always been done.

Both believe that the topic of finance reform is in clear need of a leader from either party who commits to changing the undue influence that large corporations and lobbyists have on our current system of government. They felt that this was one of the rare things that both Democrats, Republicans and even the Tea Party could agree on, and that it would be the first step in taking back our government for the people.

Something we might all agree on? Given the current state of politics, that is an intoxicating concept.

ricpic said...

Lessig would flip his bird if congress ever actually challenged executive (Obama) power. Let's see how reasonable this progressive's love of the congressional check on the executive is after November.

paul a'barge said...

Lib-tard vs Lib-tard bee-yotch fight!

Pass.

Roger J. said...

Who in the hell are glen greenwald and lawrence lessig, and why should we give a shit about what two cipher think? if someone can convince me these douchebags have any effect on policy, then I might be persuaded to check it--somehow I think not

Slow Joe said...
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Slow Joe said...

Roger J,

Greenwald only has a New York Times Best Selling Book on the Bush Administration and its abuses of power. And he has one of the most-read blogs on the Interent, after 9 months of blogging. And Senators read from his blog at Senate hearings and his posts lead to front-page news stories in major newspapers.

Why would anyone think what he has to say matters? It’s not like anyone listens to him. It’s not like he’s Ace, or Jeff Goldstein, or Patterico, or Sister Toldjah or Glenn Reynolds, or someone who really matters.

Great advice, you super-important bloggers should only to each other and about each other. Don’t bother with anyone in the Left because if you ignore them, they’ll just go away.

WV: Ellison

c3 said...

Funny; in the same thread are these comments:

Greenwald: civility and respect are to be earned. People in our political culture who are chronically dishonest and espouse radical and dangerous ideas do not merit respect.

then

Who in the hell are glen greenwald and lawrence lessig, and why should we give a shit about what two cipher think? if someone can convince me these douchebags have any effect on policy

then

Greenwald only has a New York Times Best Selling Book on the Bush Administration and its abuses of power. And he has one of the most-read blogs on the Interent, after 9 months of blogging. And Senators read from his blog at Senate hearings and his posts lead to front-page news stories in major newspapers.

Why would anyone think what he has to say matters? It’s not like anyone listens to him...
Great advice, you super-important bloggers should


The nature of our present American political discourse summed there.

Irene said...

c3, That's exactly my point.

Slow Joe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Slow Joe said...

Lets see, a New York Times bestselling book on executive authority. Breaks a story on his blog about wiretapping that leads to front-page stories on most major newspapers in the country. Russ Feingold, Ann Althouse's favorite politician, reads from his blog during the Censure hearings.

Maybe that has something to do with why. Any conservative bloggers with credentials like that? All compiled in 9 months or however long its been since he started blogging?

Funny poems are great and everything, and im sure your anonymous lawyer friends are really smart and all, but hard to say they compare to those things.

Paco Wové said...

"Something we might all agree on? Given the current state of politics, that is an intoxicating concept."

Not a chance.

raf said...

Does no one recognize the famous Greeenwald sock puppet, anymore?

jaed said...

That verification word was a pretty large hint.

(Unless Blogger actually did throw up the word "Ellison", in which case... run for it!... no, it's already too late. Skynet is about the launch the missiles and we're all gonna die.

Robert Cook said...

"The President can do whatever he wants."

Wrong.