April 5, 2010

"Obviously, right now she is probably not that into me..."

"... since she filed these stalking charges and I'm in the doghouse with her, but later on I'm going to try to recover and then actually win her over."

***

What's the difference between a suitor and a stalker? Where exactly do you cross the line? And how far over the line can you go and still not realize that you've crossed it?

31 comments:

Robert Cook said...

A suitor knows that scaring one's object of desire is not the best way to initiate a successful seduction. Also, a suitor recognizes appropriate boundaries and knows when "No" means "No," (or "NO!").

Hoosier Daddy said...

So when did Charles Manson get paroled?

Almost Ali said...

Why do I suspect that Ivanka's father, the headline-hungry Donald Trump, is the one pushing this story to enhance the Trump brand.

And in the process, posting Ivanka's whereabouts at all the local loony bins.

kcom said...

What are the odds that Systemops47 in the comments of that article is Mr. Massler himself? I'd say pretty high. Three obsessive posts in a row a few mintues apart.

I also wonder about T.o.Bast, as well.

traditionalguy said...

Borat's back. The suitor is simply a stalker that has not yet been reported to the Stalking Police. The abandoning of the tradition of being introduced in a controlled setting, such as church, reception, or social club event opens up the doors wide to full frontal lust from the eyes from any odd ball.

New "Hussein" Ham said...

As a suitor, you cannot ever tell when you've crossed that line, because your beloved can always change his or her mind and succumb to your expression of love.

Isn't that usually how it works? The great loves of my life have been those whom I did not get along with initially, but whom I had to expend effort to woo.

No, oftentimes, means maybe.

This is one of those areas of the law that is unconstitutional. A person cannot independently and conclusively tell if they have broken a stalking law until the target of their affections claims they've broken it.

prairie wind said...

"Talk me up, perhaps saying, 'Oh, yeah, he's a cool guy ... if he recovered from insanity he would be cool,'" Massler's e-mail reads.

Without the stalking part, that would be kind of sweet.

Rob said...

Well, I can't imagine what the problem would be, I mean, drifter is such an impressive job title.

On the other hand, he does seem to have a plan -- become a big time millionaire or real estate mogul. It's good to have a goal.

By the way, what kind of name is Ivanka?

bagoh20 said...

My impression is that the stalker type, despite their devotion and obsession with the target, does not make a good partner. Mild indifference is what you need to look for in a mate. If they occasionally forget your name, that's a keeper.

bagoh20 said...

Handsome wealthy men are never considered stalkers.

Robert Cook said...

"By the way, what kind of name is Ivanka?"

Ivanka's mother Ivana, Trump's first wife, is Czech, so it's obviously Czech, probably a variant of her mother's name that is customary in Czechoslovakia.

The Drill SGT said...

bagoh20 said...
Handsome wealthy men are never considered stalkers.


a variation of that old classic:

An ugly poor man is an ugly poor man

an ugly rich man is a rich man

Mark O said...

You can always go one toke over the line. Remember that.

Robert Cook said...

New "Hussein" Ham continues to demonstrate his/her ongoing conceptual prank, attempting to have us believe he/she is for real.

FAIL.

traditionalguy said...

New Hussain Ham...You and I do agree on something. The stalking law has no definition of terms until the lady asks for an Order from the Stalking Police. The Order will set limits that make the complainant more protected than a President. That is unfortunate, but it is also a plan B legal system response enacted since many mentally ill folks are no longer institutionalised but are given Meds and set loose. Fairness has nothing to do with these Protective Orders, but the accused had better obey or else. The Judges see their role as "Better safe than sorry". Acting insane around Sheriff's Deputies and Misdemeanor Court Judges is a bad mistake.

Robert Cook said...

It doesn't require a law or an Order of Protection for a sensible person, (i.e., a non-stalker) to recognize when his/her ardor and advances are unreciprocated and unwelcome, respectively.

edutcher said...

Ann Althouse said...

What's the difference between a suitor and a stalker?

About the same as the difference between Robert Packwood and William Jefferson Blyth III. Packwood chased women, but took, "No", for an answer (and was forced out of office by the femiNazis for "harassment"). We all know what happened to Juanita Broaddrick and Kathleen Willey.

On a not dissimilar note, the actor Herschel Bernardi ("Fiddler on the Roof", "Peter Gunn", not to mention Charlie the Tuna) told once how his father pursued his future mother, a beauteous stage actress in the old country, and spent years in the pursuit of a woman who couldn't stand him. Bernardi's father, apparently an ordinary schmuck, wore down her resistance over time and they had a very happy marriage.

To paraphrase Reuters, one woman's suitor is another woman's stalker. Or some other woman's Meade.

WV "dating" (no kidding) Make up your own.

traditionalguy said...

@ Robert Cook...The whole point is that these people are not sensible. There is no law against sensible good people. There is a law against what semi insane people do. The law had always said it would punish conduct after it happened, and not before. So fear was not a plea that worked to get Freddie arrested before he slashed you to death. This crap is a remedy requiring she petition for a protective Order that is granted on her Fear of the man if he has ever communicated with her at all. Then she carries around with her a protective bubble so that if he encounters her in public, the man has to turn and run away, or he goes straight to jail.

themightypuck said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Christy said...

My brother had a stalker. The family embraced her. Seriously.

Brother dated her for a while, and we met her one Thanksgiving, but he moved on. When he retired from the Army and came back home, she followed a few months later. She started hanging out at Mom's house, bringing gifts, helping out in the kitchen. She would always bring a dish to Sunday dinner. What's not to love? She and my youngest sister became best friends. Did I mention that this woman was beautiful, fun, and had money of her own?

Not until Brother started showing up at Mom's house less often did we get a clue. He never talked about his private life. We didn't know. By that time it was a real mess of extrication.

Paul Snively said...

Rob: By the way, what kind of name is Ivanka?

"Ivanka" is actually Hebrew, but most commonly found as a diminutive form of "Ivana" in the Czech Republic and other Slavic-speaking countries. As another poster commented, Ivanka's mother, Ivana, is Czech. Also, the Trump family is largely of German descent, and there are extensive historical cultural ties between parts of modern Germany and parts of the modern Czech Republic. So much so that the answer to the question "Was Franz Kafka a German writer or a Czech writer?" depends upon who you ask, and when.

traditionalguy said...

I am feeling down today. Not one stalker has come by to chat and ask about my feelings. Actually, the women age 60+ can be very skilled stalkers like Predator airplanes circling around above.

Jennifer said...

Good call, kcom. What are the odds Systemops47 isn't Mr. Massler himself, what with his apparent knowledge of extended email text and his great concern that sloppy reporting will land "innocent" people in jail!?

Pogo said...

"What's the difference between a suitor and a stalker?"

'Prison time' seems a good signifier.

Duscany said...

Some/many/most women, I've always thought, are really impressed by guys ready to move mountains to win their love. Or at least by guys who don't hesitate to declare it in the most forceful way.

I remember that Barry Goldwater once closed his girlfriend inside a phone booth with him and wouldn't let her out till she said yes.

I don't know how their marriage worked out in the long run but I imagine she never had to worry that he just wasn't that into her.

fivewheels said...

The Onion has a story for every situation:

Romantic-Comedy Behavior Gets Real-Life Man Arrested

Richard Dolan said...

Life is full of lines like stalker/suitor. Being able to tell the difference is part of being rational.

The classic example is Abraham about to sacrifice Isaac -- the line between zealous faith and murderous folly. The story as written invites us to view Abraham as a model of faith rather than a murderous nut for having come close to killing his son. Unfortunately, every few years there is a story (in the NYPost or NYDN, not the NYT) about some nut in the Bronx who re-enacts the biblical story, but without the intervention of an angel to save the child at the last minute. Even in the original Issac seems to have had a decidedly negative response to his father for having put him through the ordeal, since he doesn't come down the mountain with Abraham.

The suitor in this story certainly has faith in his own power to win her over. But the author of this story invites us to view him as a borderline nut. Suitor/stalker, faith/folly, sane/crazy. Life is full of lines that refuse to stay parallel.

Troy said...

Cyrano de Bergerac was a stalker by today's standards... using a proxy and hiding behind that ridiculous nose. An obvious candidate for a TRO.

Methadras said...

You see, you have a perfect opportunity now to eliminate this fool from society and yet he freely admits that he will continue his campaign of fear against this woman for the sole fact that he thinks he's a great catch and she should be into him. But nope, we are going to watch a potential tragedy unfold with a big fat 'I told you so' coming right after.

Just on the outside, do any of you think he is just the right type for Titus? That psychotic stare, the douche bag goatee, the hair. He's got boy toy written all over him for Titus.

Roman said...

A poor "joke", heard years ago stated that the difference between rape and passion was salesmanship. I think a salesman told me.

tim maguire said...

Hey bagoh, best line from speed:

Keanu Reeves: "You're crazy!"

Dennis Hopper: "No, poor people are crazy. I'm eccentric."