March 10, 2010

There's a "growing theory that minority contestants need twice the talent of their white counterparts" to succeed on "American Idol."

And, after last night, that theory is going to get stronger. Except since we can already safely predict that Paige Miles's journey will end this week — as they say — shouldn't that mean that the theory is wrong? She really was, objectively, the worst. 

116 comments:

Scott M said...

Since talent is completely subjective, saying that someone with one type of pigment need 100% more of an incalculable quantity is ridiculous. Yeah, I know, I'm being overly literal. But if you don't, they go all Don Imus on you.

A.W. said...

I think they were all kind of weak last night, although i missed one performance getting dinner.

Anyway, the claim that you need twice the talent can be negated by two words Fantasia Barrino (sp?).

Anyone who says she had twice the talent of the people she beat that year have to get their ears cleaned out. Mind you, as memory served i basically agreed with that outcome, but saying she was the best and saying she was twice as good are two different things.

but really at some point we have to stop playing this game of "count the minorities."

Maguro said...

Why do people find it necessary to say "minority" when they really mean "black"?

MadisonMan said...

Paige was horrible last night. I think she has a nice voice, but she chooses wretched songs to sing. She doesn't have half the talent of some of her competitors.

The problem with Idol is that the minorities that get to the top 24 aren't the best. They moved the wrong Jermaine on from Hollywood week, for example.

Maybe they should just do this on the radio. Then you'd lose the visuals.

PatCA said...

Whenever I see the words "growing theory" or "growing consensus" I suspect the writer is stating his own pet theory in order to start a meme.

Shanna said...

This show has never been solely about talent, it's about a bunch of things, talent being one of them. There is also looks, genre, song choice, what the producers are looking for that year, etc..etc...

If there is a minority problem on this show, it is more about hte producers picking (at least in later years) people who can't win or aren't current, and I don't think that's malice as much as old britishness. And the addition of instruments probably changed the game a bit.

Aurelian said...

Here we go. Going to start up with that lame bullshit once again to make up for the lack of talent. It's never not talented enough it's racism, it's never not qualified it's racism, it's never you didn't work hard enough it's the man done me wrong. It pays to be the victim. But only for so long.

NewHam said...

There's imagined racism, and then there is actual real provable racism.

When the team of sorority Zeta Tau Alpha, who just happen to be white, won a stepping competition (a traditionally black college sport) the compeition was stopped after black contender complaints and a black team was given the title instead.

This is an example of actual black racism against white people, versus hypothetical white racism.

Rialby said...

Kelly Clarkson, Ruben Studdard, Fantasia Barrino, Carrie Underwood, Taylor Hicks, Jordin Sparks, David Cook, and Kris Allen

3/8 = 37.5%

NewHam said...

"3/8 = 37.5%"

Rialby,

You seem to be suggesting that black people win American Idol at a far greater proportion to their occurrence in society as a whole (13%) and far greater than chance could suggest.

Almost as if there is a silent, guiding hand, discriminating against white people on this racist show.

MayBee said...

Sanjaya.

Trooper York said...

"Why do people find it necessary to say "minority" when they really mean "black"?"

Because everybody knows Asian people can't sing. Didn't you see the Korean dude who was out in week two.

Damn if he won they would have started boycotting vegetable stands all over the country.

NewHam said...

"Because everybody knows Asian people can't sing."

Asian people can most certainly sing, dude.

They just need to be in a bar, ripped, and have a teleprompter in front of them.

Helps if the audience is also sauced.

lyssalovelyredhead said...

Thinking back to the 2nd season, I always thought that Reben was pretty good, like he would be the guy that could sing out of a high school group, but not anywhere near as great as the judges kept insisting. (which they did really hard, if you didn't watch)

I'm no great (or even good) judge of music, but his weak career since the show seems to bear that out. I hate to think this, but I always wondered if the judges were pushing him harder because of his race.

themightypuck said...

Isn't that a bit racy baity? I mean is there really such a growing theory? Maybe in 1958.

NewHam said...

"I mean is there really such a growing theory?"

Yes, and we have the actual data to prove that American Idol is a racist show.

See, 37.5% of the people who have won American Idol have been black ... but black people only make up 13% of society.

So, there's mathematical proof that American Idol is racist.

Against whites.

So, my bet is that you won't be hearing about this much any more.

al said...

Since when is Idol a talent contest? Since public voting is involved it's mainly a popularity contest. Kind of like the last Presidential election...

themightypuck said...

Wait until some intrepid reporter breaks open the shameless racism of the National Basketball Association.

Alex said...

So exactly how many blacks should win American Idol to satisfy the race hustlers?

SteveR said...

One could argue that the process of narrowing the field down to the point when the "public" can vote may have some prejudice built in (in certainly does in some respects, not necessarialy racial) but I don't believe the "growing theory" about needing twice the talent.

Anyone who has watched the show knows popularity (e.g. Taylor Hicks) often trumps talent. To the extent that hurts "minority" contestants, I guess that includes other categories (Mormons with obnoxious fathers, not quite so open gays, bald headed rockers, long haired southern boys) who just happen to be white.

Lem said...

Damn if he won they would have started boycotting vegetable stands all over the country.

Trooper is just pissed Asians for the most part aren't fat ;)

John said...

I would hope that black people are still too cool to participate in or watch a show like American Idol in large numbers. If they are not, I fear for our country.

Trooper York said...

Hey Lem. You know who is fat. Big Papi. He has been loading up on the plantians and cuchifritos all winter. You see he is sad because he knows that:

BOSTON SUCKS!!!!!!!

See you on opening day.

rhhardin said...

Japanese singer Yoshikazu Mera.

Michael Hasenstab said...

Black people underrepresented on American Idol? Nah.

Now, the University of Wisconsin School of Law faculty, that's another matter.

Eighty-some faculty members, maybe two black faces. That's disproportionate. Somebody ought to sue.

Alex said...

Eighty-some faculty members, maybe two black faces. That's disproportionate. Somebody ought to sue.

Maybe that's the % of black people who live in Madison? If not, Althouse has a lot to answer for...

Pogo said...

Uncharismatic Irish Catholics with Atonality are under-represented on American Idol.

It's why we drink.


This week.

rdkraus said...

Nevermind that. Ann should sue for a better picture.

The Crack Emcee said...

Bullshit:

Talent is no protection against group-think.

For that you need The Macho Response.

And, Scott M, talent is not subjective - people just say that to cover for their ignorance of it's parameters and requirements.

AllenS said...

It's nothing but a backlash against Barack and Michelle, who are turning out to be an embarassment to the country.

Scott M said...

Eighty-some faculty members, maybe two black faces. That's disproportionate. Somebody ought to sue.

Snark aside, Wisconsin is approximately 6.1% black. The metro the school is located in is approx 5.8% black. Apparently you'd be just hunky-dorey if they hired about seven more people? What if they were all conservative blacks? What if they were all black conservative men?

Scott M said...

And, Scott M, talent is not subjective - people just say that to cover for their ignorance of it's parameters and requirements.

Educate me, Crack. Give me the clearly objective yardstick that can measure voice talent. No subjectivity please. Pardon my ignorance.

The Crack Emcee said...

And for the record, I don't watch AI - not because I'm black but because there's no real talent, besides people trying to ape Mariah Carey, who's trying to ape Whitney Houston, who's trying to ape Aretha Franklin, the only real original talent amongst them.

And, yes, I purposely put "ape" in there:

Have at it, Kids!

wv: cheatie - what we should call those who attempt to subvert the concept of talent by going on AI.

The Crack Emcee said...

Scott M,

Johnny Rotten.

Alex said...

Crack - it's a sad little world you live in that you can't appreciate new talent. Keep listening to your old Aretha Franklin records. What do you think about Miles Davis Bitches Brew?

Scott M said...

Johnny Rotten

You called me ignorant and that's the best support for your argument you can come up with? You're certainly off your A-game today, Crack.

Ann Althouse said...

"Why do people find it necessary to say "minority" when they really mean "black"?"

Because in this case they don't. The one Asian singer went out quickly once the public was voting. And Hispanic contestants have also been going down fast.

FormerTucsonan said...

"Now, the University of Wisconsin School of Law faculty, that's another matter."

Hang the racial make up of the faculty. I want Althouse to come clean on her colleague Mitch.

Lem said...

Why cant they have Rahm come on naked and poke the judges to vote for Paige Miles ;)

wv - raceudd

ironrailsironweights said...

I'll bet all the female competitors are pedophilically hairless :(

Peter

MayBee said...

Because in this case they don't. The one Asian singer went out quickly once the public was voting. And Hispanic contestants have also been going down fast.

But again I say: Sanjaya.

Trooper York said...

Dude I guess you haven't seen the lesbian diabetic girl Crystal Boxershorts or whatever her name is.

Trust me not a lot of shaving going on there.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

She's great and she should win.

Ann Althouse said...

"people trying to ape Mariah Carey, who's trying to ape Whitney Houston, who's trying to ape Aretha Franklin"

Actually, that doesn't describe the show these days. It used to. It was ghastly. There's some more subtlety this year.

garage mahal said...

We do to have diversity at the UW!

MadisonMan said...

She's great and she should win.

She has a nice voice and all, but I don't get much range from her. Plus her teeth bug me. Kristen Baldwin told me to say that.

Shanna said...

And Hispanic contestants have also been going down fast.

Jason Castro made it to top 4 until they drove him out. His album comes out next month, I think. Seriously, when you only have ONE representative of any given nationality, sometimes they’re going to go down. It’s a numbers game. (sometimes they stick around forever, long after people have been wishing them gone. Aloha Jasmine Trias of S3!)

The Crack Emcee said...

How did The Shaggs - a group of girls who taught themselves how to write songs that are probably despised by most listeners, and have no chance of being played on the radio, or ever appearing on AI - get called "better than The Beatles" by stellar musicians like Frank Zappa?

Why do Jazz musicians play something different - and usually harsher on the ears - after the rubes go home?

How did Johnny Rotten's cat-in-a-mousetrap yell become the voice of a generation?

In a world of "talent", as defined by AI fandom, these things shouldn't happen - unless there's something else at work that most don't include in their judgement of it. (Like a little something called "originality".) Like I said, most are clueless to what constitutes talent.

And, Alex, I'm sure - 100% positive even - I listen to more new music than everyone on this blog. Not just this thread but this entire blog. The difference is, as any serious conversation about talent on AI will indicate, I just have higher standards and won't lower them for the sake of group-think. You like Reuben? Great, go for it. But don't try to sell him to me as some great talent - or even a mediocre one - because he ain't:

He's a place-holder until the mindless mob gets out the way and the talented ones are allowed to shine.

You've had how many years of AI now? How many winners? And it's all added up to what? I'll tell you:

Bupkiss.

That's what the "talent" on AI is.

And, finally, here's a promise:

I'm almost out of debt, and, once I am, I'm going to blow y'all away with how fast I own the world of music. I'm watching everything really carefully - from AI to Lady Gaga to Flying Lotus to whoever - and there's nothing standing in my way. As a matter of fact, I'd say that's the most revealing aspect of the NewAge of Obama:

The lack of talent.

Trooper York said...

Well MadisonMan, Ms. Boxershorts is head and shoulders above everyone else except for my personal dark horse candidate, Sibby the glass blower.

You gotta love a girl who can blow like that!

Oclarki said...

Peter,

Knock of the wierd anti-grooming crusade. You're the unabomber of pubic hair.

Kyle said...

At some point in a minority person's life, the affirmative action will stop. When you're helped in getting to Hollywood but not once you're there (see MadisonMan's comment), you'll start actually being judged on your merit and fail -- like you would (should) have before.

So isn't it better to discriminate on the basis of talent in the first place?

Or is the difference not taking affirmative action at all, but that it's talent contest -> popularity contest?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

Plus her teeth bug me

Yeah, I noticed the bad teeth too. In my home she's known as Crystal Methersox.

The Crack Emcee said...

"Her teeth bug me"

Like Lady Gaga's outfits, this is what goes into judging today's musical talent. Nothing to do with the ears - or even the musical canon of what's good - but group-think.

One of my favorite moments, still, was when Susan Boyle got laughed at by the mob for how she looked and then proceeded to shut them up by actually singing. Boyle's no great talent but she still made the point clear:

Those who buy into the AI idea are clueless, to art, talent, or any of the higher callings that actually make one an artist.

The Crack Emcee said...

It's a bitchy gay guy kind of group-think, too.

traditionalguy said...

Crack is right again. The singers on AI are not judged based upon talent for singing, but upon a Magic Performance talent make the group fall at their feet.

Joseph said...

Hmm. I'm not sure. Wasn't Ruben Studdard black? And didn't he win? I found his vocal performance shockingly bad for a winner of that show.

Skyler said...

I'm sorry, did you say that there was "talent" on American Idol? You mean like people who can actually sing in tune?

I didn't think so.

The Crack Emcee said...

Singing in tune isn't a requirement of talent:

Knowing what to do with what you've got is.

Scott M said...

Crack,

You've said nothing yet to back up your claim that talent isn't subjective. In fact, you said anyone making the claim that talent is subjective is ignorant.

Your comment previous citing various names from the music industry seemed to support the opposite of your claim. You've yet to point to an objective measure of talent.

I spent nearly a decade in the radio side of the music industry and have a lot of experience on how the various facets of that chaotic industry function. There's no possible way you can make "talent" objective, saying that if you just have all of this and that, a veritable check list of "things" you will be talented. You can check off things like "plays guitar", "took voice lessons", "can read music", "knows digital production in three different suites", and still be horrible at all of them.

Talent is subjective. Music artists (art is subjective) are wholly beholden to the whims to the segment of the consumer public that supports their work.

Edmund said...

This thread has confirmed that I have made at least 1 good decision in my life: I have never watched American Idol for more than the time taken to change to the next channel, or the last few seconds as the DVR started to record the next show.

I knew from the beginning that the types of singers chosen would not be to my liking. Nothing I have heard on TV or the radio since has proven me wrong. De gustibus non est disputandum, y'all.

vw: apecycan - dance of the chest muscles.

The Crack Emcee said...

Scott M,

"You can check off things like "plays guitar", "took voice lessons", "can read music", "knows digital production in three different suites", and still be horrible at all of them."

I agree. None of those things adds up to a talent for any of them. But that checklist you're looking for doesn't exist - talent is ephemeral: it's not a loaf of bread you can pull off the shelf as AI pretends to - which is why Johnny Rotten has it and Reuben Stoddard doesn't, even if more people like what Reuben does than Johnny's work. Talent ain't no popularity contest and, maybe, is best judged by those who have it:

Leave it to the rest of you and all we get is the current malaise.

And BTW, I worked for KGFJ-AM in Los Angeles as well.

Ben said...

The moment after I finished watching the performances last week, I thought "Man, there is going to be a minor uproar tomorrow when 3 or 4 black contestants are eliminated." This pseudo-controversy has been around since the 3 divas split each others votes and were all in the bottom 3 in season 3 (of course one of them went on to win the season). John Park being eliminated instead of Todrick (who could have gone just as easily) made the controversy about "minority" contestants instead of black, but I still think the proposition is pretty ridiculous. The minority contestants suck this year. In previous years when they've been better, they've done very well, including 3 of the top 4 in season 6 and 3 of 8 winners overall.

Which is not to say the show has never reflected America's prejudices. Arguably being gay hurt Adam, or on the other side, being too religious hurt Mandisa. But the best example I think was Jordin Sparks making it into the final over the seemingly much more talented Melinda Doolittle. Obviously there were a lot of factors at play, including Jordin's relative youth and beauty and Melinda's awful decision not to sing My Funny Valentine that week. Yet I can't help but think that part of Jordin's appeal was that she was light skinned and sang old white diva standards (she wanted to be like Shirley Bassey, obv) instead of R&B.

Ben said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

Talent ain't no popularity contest and, maybe, is best judged by those who have it:

If it can be judged, it's subjective. Are you retracting your original point that claiming talent is subjective is ignorant?

Shanna said...

You've had how many years of AI now? How many winners? And it's all added up to what? I'll tell you:

Bupkiss.


Kelly Clarkson has an amazing voice. I think your hatred of AI is blinding you to that fact. There are terrible singers who make in the real world and amazing singers who don’t. And Vice Versa. Same for AI.

I don't watch AI anymore because it's a huge time suck and because I can't stand the judges, but there have been plenty of talented singers on the show.

Alex said...

I don't care for AI or radio because they won't play the music I care about. Screw it.

Ben said...

Btw, the people who bombastically proclaim that all the singers on Idol are terrible don't know what they're talking about. I've talked to some incredible musicians and they've said pretty much the same thing that anyone with common sense who watches the show with an open mind will say: Some of the singers are extremely talented, some of them are more style than substance, and some are terrible.

The Crack Emcee said...

"Music artists (art is subjective) are wholly beholden to the whims to the segment of the consumer public that supports their work."

Bullshit again. The Shaggs are good - brilliant even - whether anyone had ever heard of them, or liked them, or not. The same thing goes for those after-hours Jazz musicians:

Talent ain't about being liked, or being liked enough to get on the radio, or any of that. It's about the musical canon - and where you stack up in regards to that - whether you're aware of it or not. Lady Gaga is currently the hot electronic artist, but she's talentless compared to Derrick May and the other (gay) guys who invented Detroit Techno and Chicago House. (She even said her music sucks, unless you're on ecstacy, proving she knows more about the scam she's getting away with than her fans. She'd better keep those costumes comin',...)

Anyway, you're using the wrong framework, Scott.

Alex said...

Crack - you know The Beatles had to slog their way through Hamburg and the Cavern club for 3 years before they hit it big. Are you implying they were a manufactured band?

Rialby said...

Ann - And Hispanic contestants have also been going down fast.

Uh, didn't David Archuletta come within a few votes of winning?

Here's a list of others who made it to the top 10 or better:
Jasmine Trias(Filipino), Syesha Mercado (Puerto Rican), Jason Castro (Hispanic), Sanjaya (Indian), Ramiele Malubay (Filipino), David Hernandez (Hispanic), RJ Helton (Nicaraguan, Camile Velasco (Filipino), Elliot Yamin (Iraqi)

Do they not count unless they win?

The Crack Emcee said...

"Are you retracting your original point that claiming talent is subjective is ignorant?"

No, I'm saying you don't understand the topic. Your comment, about working in radio, says everything about the criteria you're using - which is totally wrong for assessing talent.

Pogo said...

The Crack Emcee said...
"How did The Shaggs ..."

Oh man, the Shaggs!!!

Several years ago I saw a play in Chicago based on their story, and it was great. saw it again the next night.

They were a very strange talent, which explains Zappa's comment.

The Crack Emcee said...

Shanna,

I don't hate AI - it simply doesn't matter.

The Crack Emcee said...

Alex said...

I don't care for AI or radio because they won't play the music I care about. Screw it.

And I say you guys will spit any nonsense to prove your own attitude, rather than dealing with what I'm saying. If talent wasn't special - and in a category all it's own - it wouldn't be talent.

It would be AI.

Alex said...

Crack - I am agreeing with you. AI is nonsense. It's the glitzier hi-tech replacement for "Star Search" if you remember that program. Also you failed to address my point about radio being a cesspool of top 40/rap.

Scott M said...

We're going to have to agree to disagree then. I still don't know how you can claim talent is objective.

Radio has nothing to do with it. I brought that up as a related point.

Cedarford said...

Probably the producers are weeping and gnashing their teeth that they don't have a suitable black female for that viewing demographic this season, but the simple truth is they don't. They do have one black guy that looks like he is going deep into this season, more so since he will get all the black "tribal vote".

A bigger problem is AI really needs to get some hot Latin talent, and it exists, and they just haven't worked to pull it in to tryouts. The Hispanic viewership of AI is more important to audience size, advertiser buys, and product sales - than the black demographic.

On the women - My favorites are Sioban Magnus and Crystal Bowersox.
Magnus goes to the beat of a different drum, is the risk-taking sexy rock n' roll gal with a stunning voice. And Bowersox has something really special going on.

The last 2 weeks of those two's performances were standout, an absolute pleasure to watch and listen to.

The other woman who has been a great welcome surprise this season is Ellen Degeneres. She fits in well, has a decent ear, and has been an intelligent as well as consistently entertaining judge. A real plus for the show...and I thought she was gonna bomb.

The Crack Emcee said...

Alex,

Nothing wrong with Top 40 or Rap (one of the great incubators of talent) or radio - I love 'em all - I just dislike that we've decided, just like we did in picking this president (and getting the same result) that the usual criteria doesn't matter. You've got to have standards, man. And it isn't between Rap or Rock or whatever but simply between good or bad. If you don't know what makes a song/artist/style good or bad then you're lost.

Scott,

Agree to disagree is a cop-out. You're wrong or I am. One of us, eventually, will redeem his position. Be a man and defend what you're saying - or concede.

We're not NewAgers.

The Crack Emcee said...

"The other woman who has been a great welcome surprise this season is Ellen Degeneres."

And she's a judge based on what exactly?

Trooper York said...

I have to say I agree entirely with Cedarford. Great analysis and Ellen was a pleasant surprise.

The only thing that was off was her doing the Mazza to Simon all the time. Sitting on his lap and licking his face.

That's Ryan's job.

Trooper York said...

That's the Massa I meant to say.

You know unauthorized tickling.

Scott M said...

Crack,

I've been doing so. If talent isn't subjective, then it's objective. If it's not subjective, as you've said, I've asked for an objective way of measuring it. I don't believe you've produced one.

The music industry is the economic realization of the abilities of those producing the music. It's got zero to do with talent, as I believe we've both just said. The most talented guitar player in the world might be sitting on a porch in a swamp in Louisiana, for all we know.

To say someone is talented is to agree that what their doing is desirable, beautiful, wondrous, etc. It's one thing to acknowledge obvious ability, like being able to sing through eight scales, but another to call that singer talented.

Ann Althouse said...

"Ann - 'And Hispanic contestants have also been going down fast.' Uh, didn't David Archuletta come within a few votes of winning?"

I was only referring to this new season. I don't personally believe the theory cited in the post, but I do see that the minority contestants are going down fast in this group. I think it's mostly that they are worse, but some of it is that they aren't inspiring people to pick up the phone and vote. You have to win motivated fans some way or another.

Trooper York said...

Come to think of it what was the dealio with Kara having the rocker dude take off his shirt before she voted for him?

I mean I love the precedent so let's start with the babes next week ok?

mvl said...

Do they have any Asians or Farsi on the show or is it just black people and white people.

I guess these very important questions on diversity need to be answered, and so forth.

Trooper York said...

They had a Korean dude but he thought he was an elderly black woman so he tried to sing a Billy Holiday song and was sent packing.

It's a shame this wasn't combined with "Deadwood" because I would have sent him to see Mr. Wu.

Lem said...

There's probably been a lot of 'latinos' in the show.. we just wouldn't know it because either they don't hype that and they aren't named Mark Sanchez.

Trooper York said...

The Latina woman who should have continued was Michele Delamor who they should have kept instead of some of the interchangable blondes.

But you have to have a voting block that is going to pull for you. In the early rounds appeal to them first to secure a spot then you can reach out. Michele went too mainstream too fast.

Trooper York said...

You see if Michele had only reached out to Lem he would have voted for her about 4,000 times like a late night post after the Red Sox lose a doubleheader.

MadisonMan said...

Ellen took a while to find her zone, but she's been good the past two weeks.

Crack, what she brings to AI is (1) knowledge of how to be a star and (2) a good ear for what a lot of Americans want to hear. She also brings a big fan base that might tune into AI to see her.

garage mahal said...

My favorite Mr Wu scene:

Mr. Wu: Bak Wai Lo Me... Cocksucka.
Al Swearengen: Yeah, glad I taught you that fuckin' word. These are whites, huh?
[Swearengen gestures back and forth to Wu's drawing]
Mr. Wu: HO! White COCKSUCKA!
[Wu produces a bag]
Al Swearengen: [Swearengen again motions back and forth to Wu and Wu's drawing] Two white cocksuckers killed him... and stole the dope he was bringin' to you!
Mr. Wu: White Cocksucka... YOU! SWIDGEN!
Al Swearengen: The dope you were gonna fuckin' sell to me?
Mr. Wu: White Cocksucka...
Al Swearengen: These two white cocksuckers? Who the fuck did it?
Mr. Wu: Wu...
Al Swearengen: [Swearengen is completely exasperated] Who, you ignorant fuckin' chink?
Mr. Wu: WU?
Al Swearengen: WHO? WHO? Who stole the fuckin' dope?
Mr. Wu: COCKSUCKA!

Trooper York said...

Seriously garage, you must have been following Meadehouse around Madison and taped their conversation?

Trooper York said...

Before the administators deletes it you have to see the real thing!

Best line "Those people worshp a fat man sitting on his ass."

Not safe for work.

Lem said...

I only followed the show when Jordin Sparks was on.. I redialed many times for her.

Overall I'm not fan.

garage mahal said...

Awesome Trooper. Didn't even think to look on the youtubes.

Trooper York said...

The there was the time Al gave Clay Aiken some advice.

Trooper York said...

Here's the current favorite Crystal Boxershorts!

garage mahal said...

One of the best fight scenes ever here. Dan vs. the Captain. Close your eyes at 3:30 if you're squeamish. Ok I'll stop.

The Crack Emcee said...

"If talent isn't subjective, then it's objective. If it's not subjective, as you've said, I've asked for an objective way of measuring it. I don't believe you've produced one."

I have - the musical canon. Here, let me try it another way:

When Eddie Murphy showed up on SNL he was talented. Not just compared to the other comedians on the show, who didn't matter, but to comedy itself - he could only be compared to the greats, which included folks like Andy Kaufman, whether a majority of folks thought Kaufman was weird or not. It doesn't matter if the other SNL alumni went on to bigger careers, made more movies, etc., it was Murphy who raised the bar - based on what we know as comedy.

It works the same way in music: Kelly Clarkson may have a lot of positive attributes (if you don't compare her to anyone good - or think too hard) but, like a lot of folks with careers in entertainment, she'll never be a talented artist.

Just someone entertaining.

Trooper York said...

These are the two who will be in the finals in my humble opinion.

Doug Wright-OldGrouchy said...

Yo, what's "American Idol?" Thought we all were idols to the world.

Trooper York said...

American Idle was the nickname of Carl Parvano who never pitched for the World Champion New York Yankees.

Did I tell you lately Lem the New York Yankees are once again World Champions!

Doug Wright-OldGrouchy said...

NY Yankees, best bunch of malcontents money could ever buy!

NY Yankees, give the word "Yankee" a terrible slander; you southern boys go suck eggs or it'll be Gettysburg all over again!

SteveR said...

Lots of confusion, I've never thought AI was about finding the best talent, in the same way that income from recording and concerts isn't about talent.

People pay (or watch) to be entertained, in the case of AI enough people to create good incomes. If someone isn't entertained, they shouldn't watch but please this talent criticism is either silly or elitist. I'll conceed, many of you commenting here are great judges of talent. I'm glad.

Mick said...

Casey James and Crystal Bowersox are clearly the most talented, period.

Cedarford said...

Like Garage and Trooper, I really really liked "Deadwood".

And that scene between Wu and "Swigen" was a true classic in black comedy. Had me in tears.

" garage mahal said...
One of the best fight scenes ever here. Dan vs. the Captain. Close your eyes at 3:30 if you're squeamish. Ok I'll stop."

Another classic "Deadwood" moment. Realistic as it gets, and before he got dispatched, the Captain only had to put half the effort into eye-blinking.

The other superb fight was the one between Sheriff Bullock and one badass Indian brave.

Michael said...

All contests should have outcomes that exactly mirror the ethnic composition of the country.

ken in sc said...

I don’t watch AI, but I want to say this about Asians and singing. I lived in Korea for two years. Koreans traditionally sing at parties. Everyone is expected to participate. I would say that an unusually high percentage of the general public in Korea have excellent singing voices.

Penny said...

"All contests should have outcomes that exactly mirror the ethnic composition of the country."

And don't come crying to me when your sarcasm becomes irony.

paul a'barge said...

Look, there is a very good reason they call them "minorities".

paul a'barge said...

Look, there is a very good reason they call them "minorities".

Roux said...

Two words....Reuben Studard

Shanna said...

[quote]It works the same way in music: Kelly Clarkson may have a lot of positive attributes (if you don't compare her to anyone good - or think too hard) but, like a lot of folks with careers in entertainment, she'll never be a talented artist.

Just someone entertaining.[/quote]

First of all, I agree with others that talent is subjective. Furthermore, talented artist is different from talented singer, talented musician, etc... I think Kelly is a talented singer, and one day she may develop into a talented artist. I wish her luck.

ByLaurenLuke said...

Check out Lauren Luke’s tutorial on how to get the Lady Gaga look right here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRDgOEL3G8I

:)

The Crack Emcee said...

"First of all, I agree with others that talent is subjective."

Then you, too, are full of shit: Is the talent of The Beatles subjective? Are they at the top of almost everyone's list because of mere popularity - AKA AI - or because they possessed talents beyond the norm?

Let's say you don't like The Beatles, does that have any bearing on their talent, or is it just a statement on your ignorance - or lack of musical taste?

This "music is subjective" bullshit is just lazy "you can see it this way or you can see it that" talk. Music is not subjective in the least:

People have become stupid, beyond belief, and the unwillingness to cop to it (when you've got nothing to rebut what I'm saying) is a prime example of the dumbing down. Here's a bit of help, folks:

There's no shame in being wrong - just in continuing to be so - and, right now, you're shaming yourselves something terrible.

Alex said...

Crack - you're barking up the wrong tree. Some people don't like any music.

The Crack Emcee said...

Alex,

That's my point:

Musical tastes are subjective - not musical talent.