March 17, 2010

Feel like buying a Toyota?

Yesterday, Pogo said:
This weekend I went out and bought a Toyota.

I told the salesman part of the reason was this whole story and the govt. involvement in it; that it pissed me off and this was a way to tell them to go to hell.
Ha ha. A few hours before I read that, Meade and I had gone over to the Toyota dealership to look at an FJ Cruiser. (Is that also a way of telling Al Gore to go to hell?)

128 comments:

prairie wind said...

There must be a long list of ways to tell Al Gore to go to hell.

Big Mike said...

IMAO the Highlander is the better vehicle.

You could get back in Al Gore's good graces by buying the hybrid version.

If you want to be bothered to do so.

PJ said...

If Al Gore went to hell, would it snow there?

Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...

An FJ Cruiser for the rugged back roads of Madison? Maybe Meade is going on safari?

AJ Lynch said...

I bet Pogo was a hell of a hellraiser in a prior life.


wv= noliker[what I think of Pelosi]

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

No that's a way of telling oil producing countries that we are dependent on them.

Rick Lee said...

The Highlander is a polite suburban vehicle which is sorta 4WD. The FJ Cruiser is a serious off-road vehicle. They are not comparable vehicles at all. I seriously considered getting an FJ when they came out, partly to get a more rugged off-road vehicle to replace my first Honda Element... and partly because Toyota is the home-team here (big engine/transmission plant just down the road). But the gas mileage was even worse than my Element so I just got another Element. The Element is better for carrying all my equipment in anyway. It's 4WD but just barely.

Michael said...

I have a 1998 Land Cruiser and it is going strong. Great trucks. I think the FJ Cruiser is another fantastic offering from Toyota. Great company, great cars and trucks.

Synova said...

How is something "just barely" 4WD?

I'd been kinda-sorta looking at Ford SUVs for sort of the same reason given here for Toyota. I don't suppose that I'll be getting a new car any time soon, but I've never actually gotten to *chose* before, so I don't know how.

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

But, I guess Ann my son will have to fight your wars so that you and the hubby can scoot around town sucking gasoline in a ostentatious fashion.

John said...

So we're dependent on oil-producing countries for oil. Big deal.

Tell me why should I care about that any more than I care that we're dependent on coffee-producing countries for coffee, sugar-producing countries for sugar, etc.

PatCA said...

I looked too but I can't justify it--my "old" Corolla has only 30K miles on it. A baby!

John said...

We buy most of our oil from Canada and Mexico. We haven't had a war with them in a while.

Synova said...

Oh, Gawd. If we wanted OIL Saddam would have sold it to us happily, willingly, and with great joy.

Grow up.

Matt said...

If Pogo really bought a Toyota for this reason then he is not too bright [which we knew anyway]. This isn't a government-thing; it's a Toyota corporate thing. The Prius story may be false. But the other braking issues were true - and something Toyota clearly ignored for years. To buy a Toyota now is to pretty much excuse their malfeance. Toyota deserves to be punished by consumers. And they are. Their sales are way down.

What Pogo doesn't realize is that the enemy is Toyota not the government. But then if the government ignored Toyota and let them slide then Pogo would be mad that the government wasn't doing anything.

Original Mike said...

I don't think logic is going to work, Synova, but kudos for the effort.

Elliott A said...

Don't get rid of the TT!

Original Mike said...

Matt said: "But then if the government ignored Toyota and let them slide then Pogo would be mad that the government wasn't doing anything."

New around here, aren't you?

AJ Lynch said...

Meade:

My Nissan Frontier is a great ute vehicle. Seats 5 and most options were included. Good to haul stuff around as well.

Slow Joe said...

FJ Cruiser is a good choice, despite the styling appealing to 16 year old girls. A nice solid platform that will probably be fit for lots of environments for a long time.

Highlanders are minivans styled to look kinda like jeeps. If you want one of those, the Highlander is the best one in the world, but it's not a sporty vehicle you would want to use in an adventure worth having.

I'm a Honda man (their SUVs are inferior to Toyota, but I don't like SUVs). The only thing that makes me want to buy a Toyota over a Honda is the idea of convincing the government not to demonize American businesses (like Toyota) which compete against nationalized businesses. But since I like Honda, I only buy a car every ten years or so (and I've never had to replace a Honda because it's no longer any good).

Jimmy said...

You know what they say about guys who buy big SUVs that they then never drive off the pavement don't you?

Ann, is there something you want to tell us about Meade? It is nice though that you are supporting his need to compensate.

Scott said...

I bought a made-in-Canada Honda Civic EX three months ago. Only Civic on the lot with manual transmission. Fun! Like driving a go kart.

My short list was Mazda 3, Honda Civic, VW Golf. I didn't consider anything by Toyota. The decision had nothing to do with safety problems, since I made the purchase before the brake recall was announced. I just think that Toyotas are dull. If I'm going to live with a car for ten years, I want some entertainment too.

Matt said...

Original Mike

Actually, no, not new at all. I've been reading Pogo's comments for a long time. Like many Conservatives he pretends to be opposed to the government. Or is only concerned about some things the government gets involved in - but not others. Liberals do it too. It's called politically cherry picking.

Pogo said...

"What Pogo doesn't realize is that the enemy is Toyota not the government."

We have always been at war with Eastasia, er, Toyota.

Part of the war was the terribly convenient gummint hearings, and the US Secy of Transportation telling us to stop driving your Toyota.
Only coincidence that GM is a wholly owned subsidiary of the US government.

But there's nothing to that connection at all, is there?

The zero percent interest issue was a big factor, too.
Ha ha ha.
I'm such a rebel.

Hey, Fiscal Conservative Guy:
Drill baby, drill!
That will keep your kids and mine outta foreign lands.

Slow Joe said...

Oh, and it's not clear Toyota ignored a real problem with the brakes, Matt. It's clear a lot of senior citizens had a problem, and it's clear that Toyotas don't really have a serious and widespread braking problem.

The floormat recall is a good indication that this is a load of crap. Just because Toyota deals with a silly problem like that doesn't mean they automatically are the villian.

Every car company, including GM, has recalls, has reports of sudden acceleration, etc. If the reports are all old people or people who just started driving the car, that demonstrates that the problem is dumb drivers.

Toyota had to improve some pedals and idiot proof some floormats. Just like everyone else. They are still one of the best car makers in the world, and better than any Detroit car maker has ever been, including the much improved and reliable Ford.

garage mahal said...

Think Volvo....XC90. No offense, but that PJ Cruiser looks like something you'd build with a Legos set. Probably rides and handles like one too, being a Toyota.

Sloanasaurus said...

What Pogo doesn't realize is that the enemy is Toyota not the government.

Unfortunately, the govenrment no longer represents the people on this matter. The govenrment now has skin in the game. The government runs GM - Government Motors, an entity that was created by Obama to provide cash payments to largely democratic supporters - i.e., Auto Union Workers, and to secure the electoral college of Michigan at the expense of the taxpayer.

NewHam said...

The absolute best way to punish the socialist Democrat Party is to put them out of work and one of the best ways to do that is to never again purchase a GM or Chrysler vehicle.

I cannot imagine why any American who has ever said the Pledge of Allegiance would buy a vehicle built by the same fucking union thugs who are brought in to Town Hall meetings to intimidate elder voters.

I will never reward these people by purchasing their products.

In hiring, I'll probe for Democrat Party tendencies in the questions I ask and in promotions and in every other way I will punish anyone who reveals themselves to be a Democrat.

The Democrat Party is undermining America and destroying our way of life. They're a bunch of thugs and thieves.

It's time to stop them using all necessary means.

Slow Joe said...

Toyota is paying taxes in a time when our government is deeply overspending. They aren't "the enemy". They employ a lot of great people here and around the world.

GM is stealing wealth from us, our kids, their kids. GM is the enemy, if you need to identify a company as your enemy.

No one said Toyota's practices are perfect. They corrected a problem or two, like all car makers do. Cars are complicated. But a tiny number of dumb people and scam artists and grannies complaining about something doesn't mean Toyota ignores and murdered tons of innocent babies.

The threat of nationalizing our businesses and competing with real productive companies is far more serious than the threat that most cars sold will have some kind of recall or flaw or imperfection. Toyota's not appealing to me, but they are not your enemy.

Sloanasaurus said...

Like many Conservatives he pretends to be opposed to the government. Or is only concerned about some things the government gets involved in - but not others. Liberals do it too. It's called politically cherry picking.

For the record, conservatives are not opposed to government, they are just in favor of government doing less such as not running or bailing out auto companies. Government is supposed to protect our liberties and freedom, not redistribute wealth and take away liberties and freedom.

Big Mike said...

@Fiscal Conservative, if your son is in the military he is fighting so that Muslims disabuse themselves of the notion that Americans are the world's clay pigeons.

But even if we accept your premise of "blood for oil" he would be fighting so that limousine liberals don't have to see oil platforms from the top floors of their beach houses and so that we don't wind up extracting oil from shale in the western states.

It's not like he was drafted, the way I was, to fulfill some stupid Democrat's dream of becoming a popular war president in the middle of race riots.

David said...

Every once in a while, I think that Althouse doesn't realize how running a right-wing blog has pulled her to the right.

NewHam said...

"GM is the enemy ..."

No, the employees of GM are the enemy. The union members who show up to town hall meetings with their pinky rings on and intimidate elder voters to silence them.

They're fucking thugs.

Spit on them whenever you encounter them.

GM is a just faceless corporation that will change its branding just like ACORN is doing the moment we start to impact sales.

GM's employees are the real enemy. End their jobs by not buying their shitty cars.

Slow Joe said...

The Element is just an ugly highlander with excellent space considerations. While you can get an AWD, and Honda makes the most advanced AWD systems in the world (making Audi look like Yugo), it's simply a different product from a Jeep Wrangler, FJ Cruiser, etc.

FJs won't hold nearly as much stuff inside, and they will have inferior mileage and reliability to a Highlander style SUV, but they will have far more capabilities on and off road. If you're old enough that youa ren't taking the kids everywhere, and you love the outdoors, the FJ is a great choice. I'd also suggest looking at a Subaru wagon.

If you're getting an Element or a Highlander or an Odyssey, you probably don't think the FJ is a practical vehicle... because it isn't. Fortunately, you can have a lot of fun without driving a union thug car, with any of these choices.

Pogo said...

"Like many Conservatives he pretends to be opposed to the government."

That's a completely worthless statement, Matt.

No one but anarchists are 'opposed to government'. I am opposed to this gummint, though, much as it has become a socialist juggernaut.

___________________


"Or is only concerned about some things the government gets involved in - but not others."

That pretty much describes everyone in the world, doesn't it?
I mean, is there some wisdom to be gleaned from that great insight?

NewHam said...

"Althouse doesn't realize how running a right-wing blog has pulled her to the right."

Democrat Party actions have pulled Althouse to the right.

Nancy Pelosi and the leadership in the House of Representatives are actively planning a fucking coup ... having failed to get enough votes to enact their takeover of our health care system.

First ... that shit won't stand. We'll see to that soon enough by eviscerating you at the polls and in your jobs and everywhere we encounter you.

But secondly, it's turning people who might have given them the benefit of the doubt into people who understand what the stakes are and the lengths that the Democrat Party will go to in their pursuit of infinite power.

Democrat Party actions are creating new Republicans in a way that even Ronald Reagan couldn't do.

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

Ann is not a conservative. She is a big time sucker on the government tit. She makes nearly $160,000.00 a year for being on what seems like a permanent vacation. I have no problem with tenure when it is used to protect academic freedom. I do have a problem when it is abused by people like Ann who use it to retire early while drawing a huge salary for decades on end. Ann when is the time you had published a book or a law review article? Do you do any pro bono or community improvement work? What do you actually do to earn the taxes I pay here in Wisconsin?

Ann, what do you do for a living?

http://host.madison.com/data/uw_salaries/?appSession=124144178214303

AF said...

Hey, if anyone else wants to stick it to the Man, I'll be happy to sell you a 2008 Toyota Camry for its 2009 Blue Book value.

I'll even throw in a "Get the Government Out of My Medicare" bumper sticker for free.

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

Ann talks like a tough conservative but she lives like a socialist.
Ann, why not get off your fat white butt and go out and be a productive member of our economy? Why don't you start a business instead of being a free loading leech?

From your friend-The Real Conservative

David said...

"But, I guess Ann my son will have to fight your wars so that you and the hubby can scoot around town sucking gasoline in a ostentatious fashion."

That's right, Ann. Don't buy that car. If you don't buy that car, the Afgan and Iraq wars will end in a week and a half.

Someone tell George Mitchell. Maybe he can use this on the Palestinians and the Israelis.

Pogo said...

Fiscal Guy is AJD.
ha ha ha.
Whatta maroon.

Steve in Toronto said...

I am goint to get a Sienna in the next few weeks as well.

David said...

Dear Fiscal Conservative Guy (aka profile not available):

Very brave words from someone who makes himself/herself completely invisible.

You may be a bit underemployed yourself, given the time you are able to spend anonymously sniping at people who you don't agree with (and apparently have better jobs than you do.)

Here endeth the troll feeding.

NewHam said...

"... why not get off your fat white butt and go out and be a productive member of our economy?"

You know you're getting to the Democrat Party Ann when they start deploying paid hacks from the Soros group to start up the racist personal attacks.

Democrats are masters at the politics of personal destruction.

You must be inside their OODA loop.

Take no prisoners and spit in their faces.

Jana said...

We recently needed to upgrade from our Accord to a minivan/crossover/SUV to accommodate the growing size of our family. We can't afford the Toyota options, so it wasn't really on our radar. We ended up buying a Ford for several reasons, not the least of which was that it was not a Government Motors vehicle (which was also in our budget range, unlike many foreign options).

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

I own and operate my own business so I can post any time I choose. I am not on the government tit like Ann. I can not believe you guys think of yourselves as conservatives but hang on this twit's every word.

Concerning posting anonymously-I don't have tenure like Annie.

Peter V. Bella said...

Sound like we have a new Jeremy here- Fiscal Conservative.

Anyhoo, buy what the hell you want. If the FJ fits your lifestyle, that is the vehicle for you. I've talked to some owners of them and they love them. One told me he will keep his until it falls apart.

As for you lefty save the oil freaks- screw you. If people can afford the gas, WTF do you care? You wanna save the earth or oil, or what ever your pet project of the week is, fine. Drive your weenie mobiles or your french fry diesels. Leave the rest of us alone. It is our money, not yours.

NewHam said...

"We ended up buying a Ford for several reasons, not the least of which was that it was not a Government Motors vehicle ..."

Bravo Jana. You're a credit to your nation and an excellent role model for your children. You are to be congratulated for doing your small part to ensure for them a positive future free of government coercion.

This is a teachable moment ... so I hope they are old enough to take the lesson.

Triangle Man said...

If I recall correctly, the FJ Cruiser is the only Toyota that Consumer Reports dislikes. Way to rage against the machine Meade!

NewHam said...

"I own and operate my own business so I can post any time I choose."

Really, what is the name of this business? Do you have a website we can go piss on ... since you feel the need to piss here?

Dude, go fuck yourself.

NewHam said...

Ann,

What is the IP address from which FiscalConservativeGuy is posting?

Let's see if we can track down his business. He may be working for someone and posting his excrement on their time.

Maybe we can get him fired.

Pogo said...

Hey, Fiscal Guy

I'm encouraging my kids to join the gummint workforce.

Adding weight makes it crash that much faster.

victoria said...

Boy, buy that gas guzzler, that'll show... who? You for being an idiot buying a gas guzzler. Please Ann, Meade, you are both smarter than that.
I own 2 cars, a Honda CRV and a Mercedes SUV. For the life of me I enjoy driving the Honda about 10 times as much as the Mercedes. It is fun, zippy, has just as many bells and whistles as the Mercedes and gets great gas mileage. Call me crazy (many have) but I love my Honda.

P.S. I think Al Gore cares as much about you and me as Rush Limbaugh does, which is not at all.

Vicki from Pasadena

victoria said...

Really, you all are wasting your breath and time telling Al Gore to go to hell? Get a life, there are way more important things to worry about. I can make a list of about 50 things to think about before the name Al Gore even comes up.

Grow up.

Vicki from Pasadena

Gahrie said...

Hey, Fiscal Conservative Guy:
Drill baby, drill!
That will keep your kids and mine outta foreign lands.


And here in Calif it would have the added bonus of allowing us to get our finances in order.

Meade said...

Jimmy said...
You know what they say about guys who buy big SUVs that they then never drive off the pavement don't you? Ann, is there something you want to tell us about Meade? It is nice though that you are supporting his need to compensate.

Ha ha! How true. Jimmy's logic is right on target. As Mrs. Meade said, we took a look at the Cruiser. I, of course, will need to buy a Yaris. (Unless Toyota makes something... you know... smaller.)

Matt said...

Slow Joe
52 deaths and 38 injuries blamed on their braking system, 1000s of recalled cars, an admission of oversights on their braking system and profuse apologies by their CEO and you still think the jury is out that Toyota did anything wrong?
WTF?
Also the idea that old people are to blame for this flies in the fact of logic. Do old people ONLY buy Toyotas?

Look, feel free to buy their cars. But calling them the villain is actually pretty darn correct at this point. They tried to save money and they got caught.

paul a'barge said...

Oh yeah, baby ... FJCruiser! Lust-oh-mama-big-time!

The only thing better would be one of the old-school Toyota Land Cruisers (jeep style, not station wagon although I love those too) completely redone and reliable.

With manual locking front hubs of course.

Get it!

DaveW said...

I never believed there was anything wrong with Toyotas anyway. Anyone with any experience with those cars knows they're very high quality. And it's quite easy to miss the brake pedal and hit the accelerator by accident.

What surprised me was when I read on another blog that some of them are so automated now that you can't turn the engine off by turning off the key, you can't put the thing in neutral easily and the emergency brake is no longer a direct mechanical link between you (the driver) and the rear brake assembly. (This is what I read about the CA highway patrolman incident, which was a rented Lexus.)

IE, cars are becoming so automated that even if you have a bit of snap and figure out something is wrong the car will fight you to death to prevent you stopping it. If that really is true the engineers involved should be whipped. I've heard the same things about the Prius, that turning it off involves a series of steps (push and hold a button for 3 seconds or something?) rather than a simple flip of the key.

I guess I understand people not knowing how to change a tire, but man. If you can't quickly stop a vehicle accelerating out of control either something is very badly engineered or you need remedial driver training.

Big Mike said...

Hey, NewHam, lighten up. I also think Mr. (Ms?) Fiscal Conservative is a sheep in wolf's clothing, but it's his (her?) right.

When you work for yourself you are either working for the toughest boss you've ever had, or you fail. So I respect people who own and operate their own business. It ain't easy.

Cassie said...

Spite is such an endearing quality.

traditionalguy said...

Toyota makes good motor vehicles. There is all the oil we will need in Alaska and offshore. The enemy is us as long as we let the fear of touching dirty carbon to let lying politicians sell us out while pretending to save us from pollution. That is why education has a place in society. We desperately need to learn and to be disciplined in thinking. The few great teachers are worth 10 times more than we pay them.

NewHam said...

"I respect people who own and operate their own business."

He's not owning and operating his own business and doesn't deserve your respect.

I will not lighten up on Soros-funded scumbags. Democrat Party rights to free speech stop where they advocate violating my Constitutional rights.

They have no further free speech rights at that point and I'll hound that fuck if I find out where he works and if he's posting on his bosses time, I'll do everything in my power to get him fired.

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

NewHam, good luck with that you dumb fuck. I own and operate my own business. You could loss customers for me though.

Sorry, I don't brook parasites like Ann Althouse who suck up big government salaries while barely working.

I am the true conservative here. NewHam you are just a mentally lazy piece of shit. I bet you are also one of those "conservatives" that is sucking on the government tit. Obviously I have hit a nerve with you.

And yes I am one of those conservatives that don't think we should be fighting wars to ensure corporations profits. I don't think corporations should be on the government tit any more than Ann and Meade should be.

(Well Meade is on Ann's tit while she is on the state's.)

Blue@9 said...

The FJ actually drives quite well as an off-road vehicle. A bit of overkill if you just live in the city, but at least it looks like a cool car (assuming the aesthetic appeals to you). I personally would take it over a Ford or Hummer or any of the other generic SUV offerings.

Big Mike said...

@NewHam, he says he owns and operates his own business. Aside from the obvious facts that he dislike's Professor Althouse and that he thinks his son is fighting (he didn't say where so I'm guessing Afghanistan) for American access to oil (except that Afghanistan doesn't have any oil), do you have any reason to doubt that?

Synova said...

A Paulite maybe?

Meade said...

(Well Meade is on Ann's tit while she is on the state's.)

Ooh! Hot!

Big Mike said...

@Blue, I'd still take the Highlander over the FJ, but I like my son's Jeep Patriot better than either. It gets great gas mileage and like all Jeeps it is perfectly fine going off road. Downside is that it is pretty noisy inside.

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

I thought you would like that one Meade.

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

Meade, you try to pass yourself off as a fiscal conservative here. Do you have any problems being married to a woman who collects $160,000.00 from the government and then abuses her tenure protection and barely even works part time at her government sponsored job? How is it being married to a big welfare queen?

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

Meade is this your's and Ann's theme song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thvXHWorRi4

Freeman Hunt said...

Somewhere there should be a toilet where people can dispense with their rhetorical vomit. Then it wouldn't end up puddling around everywhere.

Fred4Pres said...

I got a new Tundra 4x4.

I like the FJ Cruiser, but the Tundra made more sense for my family. For you and Meade the FJ Cruiser would probably be bitchin!

Big Mike said...

@NewHam, on second thought ...

Consider what I said earlier to be inoperative.

Meade said...

You call US lazy and you can't even bother to hyperlink ?

And learn how to use an apostrophe.

Dan said...

Toyota certainly has some issues. It was bound to happen. Vehicles are incredibly complex and nothing is ever perfect. I am a little surprised at the Group Think I am seeing around Toyota. It appears that since the Dems are in power and the Government is investigating Toyota, then anyone against the Dems should buy a Toyota? Very silly.

I think Toyota's big issue is they just couldn't believe they actually had a problem and let it fester far too long. However, they are still the Industry standard everyone else strives for in Quality.

I am happy to see at least 2 or 3 posts about Ford in this long list of comments. Now THAT is a car company.

TRO said...

Not for nothing, but Fiscal sure seems like the sore loser in the not to far in the past "Win the heart of Ann" contest that Mead won.

Fiscal Conservative Guy said...

Faux conservatives get all testy when you call them on it.

Rick Lee said...

How is something "just barely" 4WD?
I can't take the time to really explain that... but the Honda Element (which I love for other reasons) is "Honda Real-Time 4WD"... which means it's front wheel drive until it starts slipping and then it will send power to the other wheels. You can get yourself into trouble while you're waiting. There is no switch to put it into 4WD. Also, it lacks the ground clearance and undercarriage protection of a real off-road vehicle. The owners manual cautions against treating it as a serious off-roader.

BTW... whenever people start to criticize other people for driving SUVs, I know they live in town someplace where it doesn't snow much. Wisconsin in a mostly rural northern state and I'm sure Meade would like to be able to venture out of town occasionally.

Fred4Pres said...

I used to drive a chevy 2x4 pick yup in Egypt and a friend of mine drove a Land Rover. My chevy rarely got stuck off road and when it did, I kept a few boards and a shovel in the back and basically used the boards to drive over soft sand. I also always carried lots of water in the storage boxes, along with extra gas, food, tools, etc.

The land rover was great off road, however broke down all the time. Given that, I felt safer in the chevy.


The FJ Cruiser's biggest draw back is poor rear visability (which they have a camera option to allow you to park easier) and it runs on premium (why did Toyota do that?). If you want serious off roading, you can also get the Tacoma and Tundra with the off road packages which are serious enough for most. Still the FJ Cruiser is highly rated for off road stuff and is probably one of the best vehicles out there for that use.

And they do look like you are heading for safari.

Lawgiver said...

I drove a Toyota Corolla to Alaska and back in the 90s. I currently own a 2006 Avalon which on a good day can get 30 mpg. Toyota makes some awesome cars.

But like Meade, my wife gets to drive the sports car. Wife has a Infiniti G37 which, by the way, would suck the doors off of Ann's Audi.

Chip Ahoy said...

Moby, here you are. Silly boy, that's quite the costume you've put on.

Ben said...

Get the FJ. Best vehicle I've ever owned.

Synova said...

Thanks, Rick. I didn't know that they had 4WD that decided on its own when to work or not.

I've got no intention of off-roading but the roads here are either perfectly fine or nearly impassable. If the roads are ice, you know they are ice.

Having grown up in Minnesota I was was always sort of snotty about people down South who couldn't drive in snow. It's just not that hard. But I've taken that back since living in New Mexico. Because the temperature hovers around freezing so often any snow at all tends to result in ice on the roads (which then melts completely off the next day).

I drove in a car race on a lake when I was 16.

The roads here are like that.

traditionalguy said...

Fiscal Conservative...Where do you get these facts that you throw around that Professor Althouse doesn't have a full time job. Have you ever been a Professor? The impartation of an attitude towards the subject and its importance coupled with an expectation that her several hundred students do all course work at a high level is what her pay is for. Her job is neither an assembly line for products nor an entertainment show. Her required skill is to get into her students' minds and lead them into a level of competence that is superior to other schools graduates. Such interpersonal work is very draining and requires professors during break times to take regular fun trips and play sports to stay human.

Revenant said...

The Prius story may be false. But the other braking issues were true - and something Toyota clearly ignored for years.

Oh? The reported frequency of the "sudden acceleration events" is so low that it falls within sampling error. Add in the fact that past "sudden acceleration events" have been due to driver error and I'm skeptical that any problem existed.

Even if the problem does exist, the cost of fixing it (around $20 million per fatality) appears to be more than the cost of leaving it in place (around $4 million per fatality).

In short, this appears to be a media-manufactured payday for trial lawyers, just like the Audi nonsense from two decades ago.

Blue@9 said...

Concerning posting anonymously-I don't have tenure like Annie.

Haha, what a piece of shit. Claim to own your own business but won't post under your real name? What do you have to fear, that your customers will go find a different pimp?



She's molding the minds of young law school students, you douchebag. Society still needs lawyers, and better they be taught by her than some commie.

Revenant said...

Sound like we have a new Jeremy here- Fiscal Conservative.

It is probably the old one. Jeremy liked to brag about owning his own business, too.

Blue@9 said...

@Blue, I'd still take the Highlander over the FJ, but I like my son's Jeep Patriot better than either. It gets great gas mileage and like all Jeeps it is perfectly fine going off road. Downside is that it is pretty noisy inside.

My problem with Jeeps is that every single one I've ever driven has felt like it was on the very edge of falling apart. Everything always felt... insubstantial. My best friend growing up got a Grand Cherokee--the clutch and gearbox felt like a Fisher-Price toy, no solid feeling or feedback at all.

Ann Althouse said...

victoria said... "I own 2 cars, a Honda CRV and a Mercedes SUV. For the life of me I enjoy driving the Honda about 10 times as much as the Mercedes. It is fun, zippy, has just as many bells and whistles as the Mercedes and gets great gas mileage. Call me crazy (many have) but I love my Honda."

Funny, we were looking at the CRV today. I agree. It seems pretty cool. I'm sure it feels a lot better driving than that big bulky FJ Cruiser. As for a Mercedes SUV, I had one for a day one time as a loaner when my Audi TT was getting serviced. I wrote about it here: "I'd never driven an SUV before, and it wouldn't have been my choice. But it wasn't bulky and horrible. It was kind of fun to drive."

The Audi is quite small, and though we've found a way to get the skis in in, there is reason to want more of a utility vehicle, something for the bikes and so forth. With 2 adults, having a second car isn't a gigantic luxury, especially when the first car can only really seat 2.

Kev said...

There must be a long list of ways to tell Al Gore to go to hell.

True, and most of them are cheaper than the $24K or so that it would take to buy an FJ. (I'm in the "buy a new Honda every ten years or so" camp like a few other commenters on this thread.)

MadisonMan said...

That looks like a potentially Suddenly Upside-down Vehicle. Be careful!

The two times I've driven during a snowstorm from Madison to Milwaukee, the only upside-down vehicles in the median were SUVs.

Daniel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Blue@9 said...

Get a Prius--I hear those things can go really fast!


Seriously though, I drive a Prius--it's a great car if you main concern is getting from point A to point B. Not flashy, and if you're worried about getting labeled as some sanctimonious hippie, just put a few dings in it and don't wash it.

My previous car was a Saturn SL from back in the day. It's too bad GM destroyed this brand, because it was a sweet car--cheap as shit, 40mpg, reliable, and it was plastic--plastic! It was like an abusee in a relationship--you could treat it like crap and it still never failed to do your bidding. Best car ever for a starving student.

Cedarford said...

Traditional guy - "There is all the oil we will need in Alaska and offshore."

Not true. Some conservatives believe in endless resources including oil magically replenished by Jesus and it allows them to believe that endless population growth. And more billions of people and huge Haitian families all means endless economic growth and rise in standard of living everywhere. And that buying a gas guzzler is wonderful because it ticks off liberals.
It is all a comforting fantasy to them.
We should drill to lessen the wealth transfer out of America.

===============
We should also return to the ide Reagan had about paying lip service to Free Trade but not letting critical industries be destroyed by cheap Asian labor. He is why we still have the automotive, steel, higher electronics industries left in the US and all those jobs didn't go to Japan.
The Bushes didn't care what industries and jobs were lost as long as their friends were protected and Americans were fighting and dying for us with Amurrrican-made M-16s instead of far cheaper Chinese and Nigerian contractors and Mexicans we signed up.
Clinton didn't care if large swaths of America were wrecked and products came from China as long as financial services people, his big donors, and government union people were protected from free trade.

=================
The positive thing about Honda, Toyota, and Nissan being here and supplying jobs, keeping job revenue economic multipliers, as well as engineering and scientific cross-fertilization with America after Reagan forced it - cannot be exaggerated.
===================
I will buy Ford, Honda, Toyota, Mazda and Mercedes. Any day.

edgelady said...

After a lady ran a stop sign and ran into me on a highway as I was going 65mph and totaled my car I got a 1-yr old, under 19K miles 4-wheel drive TrailBlazer for $19K with same gas mileage as your Toyota. OK, not bragging at all ... just 1st place I went to and was on the way to chiropractor's office ... I was inpatient. But I feel better know my mileage isn't much different than yours. BUT, I still lust after a 4-wheel drive Toyota ... it's on my future list!!!

Irene said...

That looks like a potentially Suddenly Upside-down Vehicle. Be careful!

You don't even need snow for that to happen, just a bad driver.

Andrea said...

Fiscal Conservative Guy's "business" is probably an Ebay site that sells Beanie Babies.

Ann Althouse said...

"Don't get rid of the TT!."

Not doing that. This would be a second car... which we might not do.

Henry said...

After the Ford Pinto was declared a deathtrap it became my Dad's favorite used second car. People were giving them away. Problem was, even though they never burst into flames on us, they were still crappy cars.

Toyotas are a different matter. Problem is, the car we have is perfect and Toyota doesn't have a matching model. Otherwise I might sell up.

Methadras said...

I like the FJ Cruiser. Been looking at those when my 2000 F150 gives up the ghost, which so far has been never. I love that truck.

Muggins said...

I'm satisfied with my Ford Escape Hybrid. A little pricy, but it's my retirement celebration vehicle and that wasn't about to be a Toyota.
Love how it drives. I lean towards American products, more strongly so ever since I lunched with a Native American, who ate peanuts from a woven basket and smoke hand rolled organic cigarettes. He was a full-on "America only" consumer. He was a proud tribal member (from some California tribe which I forget the name), yet he was also pro-America. I'm not an extremist, but I'm not about to buy a new Toyota if there are good alternatives.

Meade said...

And since I now drive the TT ninety-five percent of the time, a second car would have to be something fast and fun - something that would flatter Mrs. Meade's natural beauty. Something like... a conversion Yaris?

Slow Joe said...

muggins, I don't get it... do you hate Japanese people or something?

What's the difference between supporting a hard working Japanese worker and an American. Do you just think your tribe is better (you seem to relate this to tribes).

Your Ford was built in Kansas, but a lot of the components were built in China. What's so bad about Toyotas made in America or Japan?

Toyota is paying taxes while GM and Chrysler are sucking away the productive earnings of millions of Americans. So I know who is a good member of this community and the world, and who is not.

Ford's a great company. You don't have to be a bigot to prefer their great product. But how is this different from saying you won't buy products from companies with different races, political views, or sex than you? Nationality is not a very good way to define who is the good guy.

This 'no way I'll have one of them Jap cars' is embarrassing. That is precisely the attitude that game GM the idea it could survive without trying.

Matt, you're probably on to another thread to troll, but I'm not exactly Althouse's fanboy... I get very annoyed with her strange artificial neutrality and all that. But you're a nut. And when all the people hating Toyota are nuts, it really helps make Toyota's case. Sure, it's logically possible that Toyota is villainous and just happens to be persecuted by insane liberals. But it doesn't feel like that.

John Lynch said...

I won't buy one because my 2005 Corolla doesn't need replacing. Before that one I had a 1993 Corolla. I loved them both.

I used to have a Suburu whose accelerator would stick when it got really cold. I just put in the clutch until it was over it. It never occurred to me to sue over it.

Revenant said...

What's the difference between supporting a hard working Japanese worker and an American.

That isn't even the right question to ask. Even if there was something patriotic about paying Americans more than they're worth, there's still the little fact that plenty of Toyotas and Toyota parts are made right here in America.

Here, for example.

Buddy Larsen said...

...soon as the Schumer trade
wars are over and the Obama greenback will only buy UAW and within the boundaries of the 27 remaining states, Chrysler plans to bring back the Dart "Bored" --with the new torquefree "rubberband" drive, a throwup hood, bucket seats, a horn that goes "blaAAH", and a sticker price of only $250,000.

holdfast said...

"A few hours before I read that, Meade and I had gone over to the Toyota dealership to look at an FJ Cruiser. (Is that also a way of telling Al Gore to go to hell?)"

No that's how you tell him to go to heck - to tell him to go to hell, you need my ride, the Toyota Sequoia.

http://www.toyota.com/sequoia/photo-gallery.html

Rose said...

The Toyota Pedal – From the Absurd to the Crooked -- Snork Calling BS on ToyotaGate. at Blogmocracy
[T]he trend of the total number of unintended acceleration complaints to NHTSA over the years.

2000: 1415
2001: 1345
2002: 1460
2003: 1446
2004: 1426
2005: 1112
2006: 878
2007: 876
2008: 456
2009: 251

Sumthin' is fishy. It has the same stench as an opponent's private sealed divorce records unearthed during a campaign. What's really going on?

Read the complaint records of any auto. Rear windows that shatter for no reason, brake fails and stuck accelerators are very common. Why is it now a big deal?

kentuckyliz said...

I don't feel like buying a toyota . The gas and brake pedals ren't mechanical--you step on a pedal to operate software. No effin way.

Mick said...

Matt said,

"What Pogo doesn't realize is that the enemy is Toyota not the government. But then if the government ignored Toyota and let them slide then Pogo would be mad that the government wasn't doing anything."


Why are Liberals such friends of the Government? It's ALL about government (Chicago Mob) ownership of GM, government partner Unions (Toyota is non-union), sucking up to the Trial Lawyer Lobby, and aided by a Leftist fawning media.

Check this out (it's not brakes by the way, it's accellerators).

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html

Or this. Do you think the media does any statistical analysis, or do they just play chicken little for the Usurper?

http://www.theatlantic.com/b...usiness/archive/2010/03/how-real-are-the-defects-in-toyotas-cars/37448/?rss=37448

Eric said...

You could loss customers for me though.

Fortunately your imaginary customers aren't put off by illiteracy.

What I really like about this blog is the way it attracts the nicest people.

Slow Joe said...

Revenant, true, Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans, directly and indirectly, and pays a hell of a lot of tax (unlike GM and Chrysler, which suck our wealth away).

But it's still interesting to me how democrats have this hatred of other peoples around the world. What's wrong with the Japanese making money? How is that worse than Americans making money? When they talk about buying American Chevies (if they are made here, anyway), so that jobs exist, they are, by extension, saying we shouldn't buy Japanese and employ a japanese worker (if that car was actually made there). Or saying that some profits shouldn't go to Japan (even when a lot of profits go into the US Treasury if you buy from a profitable company).

It's just bigotry. Sure, you have a point that it's not even accurate... Toyota is an American car maker.

Kentucky Liz, there's nothing to be afraid of in drive by wire. It's just as physical a process as a cable in your carburetor. In fact, there are many ways for an old style throttle cable to stick. Fly by wire is much safer. And it's not something you avoid by skipping Audi.

Don't believe the trial lawyers and MSM idiots. This mysterious ghost in the machine doesn't exist at all. The brakes in your toyota can stop the car at full throttle. It is your responsibility to read the manual and know how to shut off your car and get out of gear.

Cars are much easier to drive and much safer with modern technology than they were without. this 'software is scary' complaint is out of line with a reality where the bug cannot be replicated because it doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, thousands of people have died because the old school cable, if poorly maintained, can be dangerous. All cars are powerful enough to be dangerous, like life in general.

Roger J. said...

Fred4Presw--I also drive a tundra--great vehicle, extraordinarily comfortable and useful--gas milage sucks but it is a big engine V-8.

My theory in life is there are a few things you need badly from time to time: a plumber, a woman, a .45, and a pickup. The Tundra covers the last item.

Buddy Larsen said...

This administration --and the party it is of --have gone clear 'round the bend with the manufactured crisis tactic. Thank you MSM, you're being the death of us.

Pray nothing exigent ever really threatens us --say a rogue asteroid or a foreign thermonuclear ICBM swarm --cuz we are approaching full narrative mithridization.

Toyota's mechanical problem is 39 billion unprotection-racketed dollars in the bank.

Fred4Pres said...

kentuckyliz said...
I don't feel like buying a toyota . The gas and brake pedals ren't mechanical--you step on a pedal to operate software. No effin way.

3/18/10 1:20 AM


Kentucky Liz, Slow Joe is right on the drive by wire. If you feel that way you should not fly in a commerical plane, most of them use the same technology. Ford and GM also use it.

Buddy Larsen said...

The Truth about Trade in History

by Bruce Bartlett

(good stuff here imho; historical & technical as opp to standard political cant rant)

Blue@9 said...

But it's still interesting to me how democrats have this hatred of other peoples around the world. What's wrong with the Japanese making money?

Haven't you figured it out? Asians aren't real minorities--we're neither brown enough nor victimized enough.

Now, if Toyota was based in Latin America or Africa, Democrats would call you racist for not buying Toyota.

In the Mood said...

I buy Japanese cars because they have universal government provided healthcare!

Buddy Larsen said...

...universal government provided healthcare, and a 200% debt-to-gdp ratio (twice ours) made doable only at the expense of growth & jobs, and --crucially --by almost 100% of the national debt being internally owned (twice ours). Not to mention, made doable by such unquantifiable truths as a highly cooperative and homogeneous society strongly aligned to personal and civic virtue (as opposed to say an emphasis on personal freedom shading into absolute license).

In the Mood said...

Hey Buddy, I am agreeing with Ann and other conservatives here that we should all buy national healthcare built cars! It does seem that Japan knows how to build them!

In the Mood said...

The Germans too!

In the Mood said...

Ann loves her German universal healthcare Audi!

Michael Hasenstab said...

Saw a nice used Subaru Tribeca this morning at Miller Subaru on East Washington. About $18K. Plenty of room for bicycles, etc.

It's an acceptable SUV for Madisonites.

Andrew Jacob said...

Toyota had regular problems which are like sudden acceleration, floor mats etc.., but it's not the only one brand which having the problem, all most every manufactures having the this type of problems, and also most of the companies recalling their vehicles at same time but as a global leader in sells Toyota getting the more expose than other once.....

Andrew Jacob
Joshua's Law Online Course

The Motoring said...

Toyota is very famous in Asia.
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