February 5, 2010

"Women with one name, they’re all pretty much alike. It’s the ultimate patricide."

Warren Beatty, disrespecting Madonna.

It's an interesting observation, but not all women who want to be called by one name are lopping off the father's contribution. (Call me Althouse.)

44 comments:

rhhardin said...

It's the peter principle.

former law student said...

In my experience, women tend to go by their first name, ("Hello, this is Phyllis") perhaps because they follow the custom of changing their surname with each marriage.

ken in sc said...

How about women who keep their father's name when they get married? I have wondered why the woman's father's name is more feminist than the man's father's name.

The Ghost said...

My wife and I considered changing both our last names to a blended version of our family names.

Carlson + Buccellato = Carlato

Considered and rejected ...

former law student said...

I have wondered why the woman's father's name is more feminist than the man's father's name.

Imagine a patriarchy where the man changed his surname to his wife's father's. Less feminist? More? A wash?

traditionalguy said...

That is an interesting thought by Beatty. But it does not seem to apply to Madonna, because her Title of Madonna is not a name but a description of her Ruler Woman status over men in general. That can be a turn on for some men, I am told. But it is not a turn on to a man that accepts his traditional male role as the strong protector of the woman. Ask Madonna or Camille Paglia ,who praises the Ruling Woman and huntress type of persona, like Diana in the Greek/Roman myths. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

traditionalguy said...

A funny side note: Madonna just got dumped by her boy toy named Jesus.

Brian Hancock said...

Didn't he used to "date" Madonna during the "Truth and Dare" phase of her career?

Nichevo said...

Madonna has been dated for a long time.

ricpic said...

Do men even exist for Lady Gaga? Admittedly two names.

Eric said...

Hey Althouse, what about men with one name like Sting, Prince, Beck, Bono, Eminem, or Liberace? Or those using only first names plus a modifier -- like Tiny Tim and Boy George?

Aren't these people committing the ultimate patricide too?

And what about Lassie, Rin Tin Tin, and Flipper? Don't their parents count?

I think we need to come up with some sort of consistent rule.

AllenS said...

He nailed Cher when she was 16. A lot of the other women had two names.

former law student said...

The rap on Beatty always was that he screwed every woman in Hollywood except for Shirley McLaine.

As a young person, I saw the weird-assed Mickey One. Why that didn't torpedo his career I don't know.

ricpic said...

The first like two minutes of Mickey One were cool. All downhill after that.

Tibore said...

"traditionalguy said...
A funny side note: Madonna just got dumped by her boy toy named Jesus."


Thank God. There was something disturbingly Oedipal about that relationship. :-S

kathleen said...

Women who refer to themselves by their father's surname, they're all pretty much alike. It's the ultimate matricide.

kathleen said...

or maybe just femicide

Ralph L said...

Imagine a patriarchy where the man changed his surname to his wife's father's
In the Oldish South, husbands were customarily buried with their wives' families, making it difficult for their descendants to find them.

Pogo said...

"...but not all women who want to be called by one name are lopping off the father's contribution."

Something about "lopping off the father's contribution" pricks me.

Scott M said...

It might be a regional thing, but I grew up in Chicago and now reside in St Louis.

When facebook got going, I reconnected with a lot of female high-school classmates. Those that were married, a majority by far, had dropped their own middle names, put their maiden names as their new middle names, and took their husband's last name. I'm sure this isn't rare around the country, but I see a lot of it here in St Louis.

From a purely male standpoint, I've got no problem with that at all. I've always been fundamentally against hyphenated last names and entropy, like a lot of 60's liberalism, seems to be grinding it into the dust. Most of the liberal women I know aren't going to bother...especially those who already have hyphenated names given to them by their parents.

The joke was always, "what if a hyphenated woman meets a hyphenated man...what then?" It's no longer a joke. I've read about and actually know a couple of people this applied to. In both personally known cases, they just shrugged their shoulders and went all traditional (eeeewwwwww).

Much like most liberalism, extend it out to it's logical progression, and it either fails outright or falls under the weight of it's own encumbrance. Case in point would have been Tracy Cutting-Brown-Davis-McKenny.

Try getting THAT on to a driver's license.

Brent said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brent said...

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Genesis 5:2

Mian said...

from the Times article:

He used to call Sandra Bernhard in the middle of the night, asking her to talk dirty to Uncle Warren.

Ghastly! Stone the wretch!

LarsPorsena said...

Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, now there are some guys with parricide issues.

edutcher said...

Ann said...

"Women with one name, they’re all pretty much alike. It’s the ultimate patricide."

Is that supposed to mean Paladin didn't like his mother?

traditionalguy said...

A funny side note: Madonna just got dumped by her boy toy named Jesus.

I think the real one did so some time ago.

former law student said...

The rap on Beatty always was that he screwed every woman in Hollywood except for Shirley McLaine.

Are you sure he left her out ;0

littlebeartoe said...

This parrotcide is just plain wrong! What did Polly do to deserve it? All she ever wanted was a cracker!

Palladian said...

"He used to call Sandra Bernhard in the middle of the night, asking her to talk dirty to Uncle Warren."

At least he didn't call Sarah Bernhardt for dirty talk. It would be awful if he were both a scumbag and a necrophile.

Palladian said...

Did Warren ever bed Odetta? Or Tiffany?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Those that were married, a majority by far, had dropped their own middle names, put their maiden names as their new middle names, and took their husband's last name. I'm sure this isn't rare around the country, but I see a lot of it here in St Louis.


That's what I did. After all you spend a good deal of your life from age 0 to 18 or longer with the family identity and last name of your father (generally). To completely abandon that family heritage when you get married is weird. At least by keeping the maiden name as the middle name you retain some semblance of continuity.

It is also weird to learn to write a new last name appended to your first name. Again. You spend years writing your name one way and then suddenly....you change. It's like when the year changes it takes me about a month to not write '09 on checks and automatically/without thinking about it '10.

Men don't have to deal with this weird identity change.

Scott M said...

Ah, yes, DBQ, but there is so much that we do have to deal with...

(...don't tell my wife I wrote that...)

Honestly, in the aggregate, I believe marriage between a man and a woman to be an equal transaction of responsibilities, names, repressed urges etc...lol

Dust Bunny Queen said...

Ah, yes, DBQ, but there is so much that we do have to deal with...

(...don't tell my wife I wrote that...)


You mean like trying to stuff oysters into slot machines?

hee hee. :-D


LOL verification word: fullit

k*thy said...

Actually, my brother's best man changed his to his wife's (dad's) last name when he got married. Unusual, but it happens.

Scott M said...

@k*thy

Actually, my brother's best man changed his to his wife's (dad's) last name when he got married. Unusual, but it happens.

1) How many piercing does he have and where are they?

2) Is he now or has he ever been wiccan?

3) Does he believe in primal scream therapy or fung shui?

Dust Bunny Queen said...

You forgot one Scott.....

How rich is the Father in Law?

Tibore said...

"Scott M said...
It might be a regional thing, but I grew up in Chicago and now reside in St Louis.

... Those that were married, a majority by far, had dropped their own middle names, put their maiden names as their new middle names, and took their husband's last name."


I don't know about St. Louis, but Mom tells me that that's supposed to be tradition in the Philippines. Her middle name was her maiden one, and that propogates to us kids (my middle name was her maiden one). Thing is, I know several Filipinos for whom that doesn't hold true; she simply ignores that when I bring it up. :-D

"Dust Bunny Queen said...
That's what I did. After all you spend a good deal of your life from age 0 to 18 or longer with the family identity and last name of your father (generally). To completely abandon that family heritage when you get married is weird. At least by keeping the maiden name as the middle name you retain some semblance of continuity."


I think that's the rationale for doing it in the Philippines. But again, it can't be that firm a tradition, not when I can name several people I grew up with who don't have last names as middle names.

knox said...

This is a tough one... Team Beatty? or Team Madonna? both are pretty darn gross. Too bad they broke up, they are in fact perfect for one another.

Penny said...

It may be a clever comment by Beatty, but don't most people who go by one name *first or last* do so for "branding" reasons?

sonicfrog said...

Share and Cher alike????

kentuckyliz said...

So, the father's contribution is his name?

He doesn't know much about sex and biology and haploid cells and DNA and biology.

Of course...all that nonreproductive sex with women he didn't want to breed with...

he would think the name is the important thing.

Reflection of a shallow Hollywood type.

kcom said...

This post leads to the obvious question, what does Meade call Althouse? What did he call her in those private moments on the mountain in Colorado? Did she say, "I, Althouse, take this man..."?

AllenS said...

I was looking at Cher's bio, and it appears and I'm the only person who hasn't had sex with her.

Jeff Gee said...

Wouldn't the ultimate patricide be actually, you know, killing your father?

kentuckyliz said...

Beatty has had sex with thousands of women, presumably some of whom got pregnant, but he didn't stick around to find out much less be a father.

The ultimate patricide is being a man whore and walking away. Next!

Totally self-imposed.

Methadras said...

Yeah, well what does he have to say about women who take on three names? Their first name, their maiden name, and the hyphenated name of their husband as a hedge against divorce?