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I guess that saving the entire world from Martians, or from CO2 attacks,or from killer bees etc. will need lots of wealthy elites willing to go thru this kind of hardship for us.
How many carbon credits does one have to buy for a caviar wedge?
CarbonhagenMany people do not know this, but Carbonhagen is Nina Hagen's son.
"the local sex workers' union – they have unions here – has announced that all its 1,400 members will give free intercourse to anyone with a climate conference delegate's pass."And that, folks, is at least one big reason they couldn't do this conference via Skype and save the world another carbon footprint the size of Morocco's.
This is like the bigotry summit in Durban a few years ago. All the bigots showed up.Then there's that God-awful "Hopenhagen" ad campaign from Coke (oh, boy), Siemens, and somebody else. Get the feeling they were trying to ride a wave?Ann said... "If they were really worried about global warming they’d be doing this by Skype. But they live in a culture of entitlement."If they were worried about the planet, they'd do it by teleconference and email. There's a reason the hookers are giving freebies to the attendees - professional courtesy.vbspurs said... Carbonhagen Many people do not know this, but Carbonhagen is Nina Hagen's son.I thought it was Kevin Hagen's son. (If you know who I mean, and his politics, it makes perfect sense)WV "thotexpo" (no lie, that's what came up) What these clowns are unqualified to attend.
Why do new problems "discovered" by liberals - like the "Global Warming" - always attract the same old liberal groups who always prescribe the same old discredited liberal solutions, like more taxes, more restrictions on liberty, and more transfer of wealth to third world nations?
The hypocrisy angle is so obvious on this subject yet it doesn't even phase them a bit.For instance, bring up how the AGW crowd going to Carbonhagen aren't doing a good job themselves in reducing the carbon footprint and you're likely to hear that its too late. We MUST act now, all of us, forced by government edict to reduce. Don't bother with the little details.
The next summit will be held in the Antarctic. You know, as a fact-finding tour.The well-stocked cruise ship will leave from Buenos Aires, full of only the finest food and drink for the worthies in their staterooms with balconies.
There is something surreal about all this.
There is value to meeting face to face.I'm not saying that value will occur at this meeting, but to say it shouldn't happen just because they could do it by skype is pretty fatuous reasoning.
I'll bet that Al Gore can out eat anyone there in caviar wedges.
I've owned three private planes myself, never more than two at a time though.Who knew that one day they'd be up with fish eggs as tokens of wealth.
MadisonMan said... "There is value to meeting face to face."Especially true if you're talking about sex workers.
There is something surreal about all this.Quite. That's why I was only able to muster up schtick and not schtonk.
Especially true if you're talking about sex workers.Soon enough, there'll be an app for that.
Remember all the prep meetings they've had for this summit.They discussed it in Pittsburgh this summer. And when was their big trip to Bali?The main thing these global warming meetings seem to accomplish is frequent travel.India is not going to be caged in by any carbon limits. Nor should they be. This summit should have been canceled the minute they realized India wasn't going to play.
This sort of thing makes me pretty angry.Like the smart grid. Why can't they just put a box in the living room that tells you what your power bill is currently? That wouldn't require any new technology, and then you could leave it up to individuals to decide how they want top manage the power they are paying for.But no, they feel they need to have the power to turn off your air conditioner for you.
Nothing to see here, people. Move along. Go to your homes.
Expelling carbon is one of the new deadly sins.The priests are all lining up in Europe to sell us absolution.My thesis # 92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people, “Clean air, clean air,” and there is no clean air!
These people are important.
Is Siemens the sponsor for the sex workers union events?
I am a bit unclear on caviar wedgies---seems they might be a bit messy.
"Why do new problems "discovered" by liberals ...always attract the same old liberal groups who always prescribe the same old discredited liberal solutions?Global warming is the same old socialist Mao uniform dressed up in a population-bomb 70s leisure suit.Gore is the Copenhagen Tiger Woods, a facade of industrious CO2 chip shots and green family values, but all the while sleeping with a different energy whore in every town.
This is really not as funny as the ridiculous faux science it has been using to suck in the educated to its support. Copenhagen is the attempt to plan an official way to criminalise human life on the planet. It is a Cult of ClimoGenocide. Today the Obama EPA officially criminalised air as an illegal pollutant. No one will be left to laugh when Obama has finished us off.
More ad hominem attacks from Ann Althouse. She has attacked scientists, accusing them of being cheap whores. She routinely attacks Al Gore. She routinely mocks environmentalism. But she doesn't say why she thinks no action should be taken on global warming. Really, Ann Althouse is stooping to new lows of personal attacks rather than add anything useful to the debate.
JohnAnnArbor: Soon enough, there'll be an app for that.Soon enough, hell: Virtual Valerie was released in the late 19080s. Its sequel was released in the mid 1990s.
How many conferences have you ever attended by skype, Althouse? None, huh?Yep. You fly to every conference you attend. And you blog about it. "But the kettle is black!" screams Althouse, the Pan.
the local sex workers' union – they have unions here – has announced that all its 1,400 members will give free intercourse to anyone with a climate conference delegate's pass.Jim Doyle, governor of Wisconsin, is going to conference, so not only do I get to be screwed by him, I get to pay for him to go to be screwed.
How many conferences have you ever attended by skype, Althouse? See, she's not an environmentalist doomsdayer predicting the end of the world if we do not reign in our carbon emissions from jets and caviar wedges. Al Gore and all these environmentalists ARE. That's the difference, nitwit.And believe me, I don't often call anyone a nitwit, so you should feel gratified.
And last I heard, Ann diavlogs most of her meetings with colleagues. Why don't these hypocrites try on that for size. Hannah Rosin versus Phil Jones. That's the ticket.
Conservatives sure can bust out the faux populism when it suits their purposes. Hypocrisy abounds in all corners. What else is new? From the same Telegraph link:"The hot air this week will be massive, the whole proceedings eminently mockable, but it would be far too early to write off this conference as a failure."Progress... intermittent and ugly. But progress. Deniers can take a hike.
"How many conferences have you ever attended by skype, Althouse?"Say it with me, Tony, real slow: Bloggingheads.Anyway, Althouse is merely calling out the AGW hypocrites. If their whole schtick is a lie, as it appears to be, why try to abide by their bullshit sacred Party diktats?"Deniers can take a hike."Because it'll be illegal to drive.But not for Algore.
I am a bit unclear on caviar wedgies---seems they might be a bit messy.Some traveling businessmen pay well for that kind of thing.
Really, Ann Althouse is stooping to new lows of personal attacks rather than add anything useful to the debate.Don't you think this kind of event rather invites mockery and derision? Really, no matter what side you're on? It does add to the debate, I'd submit, to lampoon it. To quote movie mogul Jack Woltz from "The Godfather," "...a man in my position can't afford to be made to look ridiculous!
AlphaLiberal said... More ad hominem attacks from Ann Althouse. She has attacked scientists, accusing them of being cheap whores.Only because they are. As I said regarding the hookers, professional courtesy. She routinely attacks Al Gore.He has become such a target-rich environment. She routinely mocks environmentalism.Perhaps the movement has it coming. But she doesn't say why she thinks no action should be taken on global warming.Maybe because, like most thinking people, she sees no evidence of it. Really, Ann Althouse is stooping to new lows of personal attacks rather than add anything useful to the debate.I think Climategate ended any debate.PS Notice how all the trolls suddenly jumped out of the woodwork?
AL,So you think it is just peachy keen that these hypocrites expend all this carbon to then tell us that we have to give up everything we have worked for so that they can save the world. Strange that, according to one of the other websites I saw this on it was mentioned that the CO2 expelled by this one conference is more than the CO2 expelled by 50 3rd World countries in a year. And you wonder why we question the basis for all this? What I want to see happen before any cap and trade gets passed if for these scientists to input the 1980 data and have their models pump out the correct data for 1990, 2000 and current. If they can't do that, then why should I pay any attention to what they say will happen. Their whole basis will have been shown to be faked. And I would bet that is just what would happen. I don't think they have been right on anything to do with this yet.
unless the copenhagen conference can get the Indians and Chinese on board, I dont see any substantive progress in store--gues I am going on my hike
Tony OI'm afraid your post makes no sense. When has Ann Althouse ever told us plebes not to fly? Whereas everyine going to that conference has stated that ad nauseum.
Serious environmentalists must plan 1-2 yrs in advance on their travel arrangements to these conferences. If in California, say, figure a good 4 months to walk from CA to Long Island, another 6-8 weeks rowing the Atlantic by hand [no cheating with an outboard motor!], and another 2-3 months walk to Copenhagen. Sure logistics would be more difficult to arrange everybody from all parts of the globe, but this is the only way.
The airport says it is expecting up to 140 extra private jets during the peak period alone, so far over its capacity that the planes will have to fly off to regional airports – or to Sweden – to park, returning to Copenhagen to pick up their VIP passengers.So many private jets they can't even park them all at the airport, so extra trips have to be made just to park them and then return to pick-up passengers.
4 months to walk from CA to Long Island, another 6-8 weeks rowing the Atlantic by handThere are sailing ships that can make the trip down around the cape and back up again in much less time.Or they just pick up a fucking telephone.
Heavy slogging here through the world of servers and data storage, but a data administrator guest-posts here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/07/comprhensive-network-analysis-shows-climategate-likely-to-be-a-leak/His conclusion: It's virtually impossible for this to have been an illegal hack. The data was unlikely to have been accessible on the Internet and, if it was, it would have been a monster hole-in-one for someone to have found it. Far more likely is that one person assembled all this data for FOI purposes, and someone else found it and leaked it to thwart Prof. Jones' attempts to claim intellectual property and other dodges to keep it under wraps. To this non-expert, it makes sense. Who keeps e-mail from 12 years ago on a server open to the web? Anyway, the technically inclined can read it for themselves and determine if the writer's process-of-elimination logic holds up.
Dumbasses: "Troll" does not mean someone who disagrees with conservatives. I've been posting here longer than many people who accuse me of being a troll. A regular is not a troll.
Can Instapundit or Anne point to any of the following:1) A recommendation that consumers give up airline travel to reduce global warming given by the IPCC or the UN2)some evidence of the massive consumption of caviar wedges by delegates to the conference, or an indication that caviar has something specific to do with anything, other than its use as a handy fake-populist signifier by defenders of polluters like Glenn Reynolds and Anne Althouse3)some evidence of the harm that curbing pollution and waste will do to the world, even if you think warming is a "hoax"4)some cogent explanation of why all these fatcats and bon-vivants have picked such a boring issue to use as a pretext to live it up. Why global warming? why not something easier to fix, like illiteracy?5)a suggested model for organizing summits that would require no travel on the part of participants. Is there a teleconferencing system that can handle 98 participants, using just the number of countries represented?
Oh, I see. Last week it was hackers who stole the data. That has proven inconvenient so now it's an inside job. Change your story much? Once you hack someone's server, you can access their files and their data. John's defense is flimsy. And, now we have another climate lab being burgled in Victoria, BC. Sounds like Nixonian tactics, all right! (Reminder: The Watergate scandal started originally as a burglary). Silver lining: Con's at least still perceive some type of problem being associated with law breaking.
John Stodder - there is also the issue that these emails have likely been assembled from a much larger population that have would included, and had removed, emails of a personal and other business/academic nature. This supports the FOIA theory.
fat guy in a little jetfat guy in a little jet
And last I heard, Ann diavlogs most of her meetings with colleagues.Very weak. (You too Pogo, since you said the same thing). This is more than two people talking about what's popped up in the news lately. The interactions that occur at meetings -- face to face meetings -- cannot yet be replicated. Cisco Systems Telepresence comes close -- that is one Jim Dandy System!! -- but for a big conference like this? Not yet.I'm all for calling them hypocritical -- they're politicians, for pete's sake, bien sur they are hypocrites -- but as I said upthread, to call them out because they could do this via skype flies in the face of actual facts.Part of my job is remote training over phone/internet. Half of my team is in CO; when we have team meetings, they are not done remotely (although the monthly planning meetings are). It always strikes me as odd, but you really do make a lot of progress when you're in the same room.I wonder how much of the Copenhagen trip (who planned this for December? Could you pick a bleaker time of year there?) has been done over the internet/phone/telepresence-ly.
AL -- read the post I linked to (did you really manage to do that and write your response in 12 minutes, assuming you saw mine immediately?) and then tell us what you think. As I said, I'm not an expert, but the fellow who wrote it is, and he does a pretty persuasive job narrowing the possibilities for the hacker scenario, while showing how much easier it is to imagine it being an inside job. Despite Occam's Razor, you can't completely eliminate the possibility. So your fantasies of a bunch of New Nixons doing this to ruin Copenhagen are still free to roam. wv: exiest. The former lover you spend the most time fantasizing about.
"And, now we have another climate lab being burgled in Victoria, BC. Sounds like Nixonian tactics, all right! (Reminder: The Watergate scandal started originally as a burglary)."Hahaha...let me try: A man breaks into a basement to steal a sewing machine and finds thirty dead bodies. Good luck convinving anyone the burglary is what they should care about when $trillions are at stake!
I have to agree with Madison Man on the value of face-to-face meetings. I work from home and am in constant touch with my colleagues around the country via e-mail and phone, but it's nothing like seeing them at their sites or at conferences. It's the wretched excess of this one that is a target for satire. Not the fact of the meeting/travel. I've been in a private jet precisely twice in my life, and in one case we were ferrying a big bag of cash, and in the other we were being sold a big bill of goods. (Long stories involving trash, goldmines, Bill Cosby and the New Mexico State Fair.) Copenhagen is not hard to reach by commercial airliner. The carbon footprint of a private jet vs. a seat on a commercial flight is, well, immense doesn't even come close to conveying it. Skype is a red herring in this discussion.
AL: I'm searching Google for the story about the break-in of the Victoria climate lab and can't find it. Got link?
I'm not saying that value will occur at this meeting, but to say it shouldn't happen just because they could do it by skype is pretty fatuous reasoning.Actual negotiations don't happen at "summits" like this. Especially for technical issues like carbon limits all this will have been hammered out before the meeting. There's no way you can get that many heads of state together and actually accomplish anything. It's like the UN General Assembly writ large.
John, here you go: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=2301809http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2300282Note: National Post is a conservative paper.
It's the wretched excess of this one that is a target for satire. . my point was that the excess is not from climate activists but from the big wigs from government and corporations attending the meeting. Any meeting they will attend you will find this stuff.
"And believe me, I don't often call anyone a nitwit, so you should feel gratified."Sigh. "Tony O" is the same stupid troll who posts basically the same personal attacks at Althouse on a nearly daily basis under hundreds of different nicknames. Don't waste your time responding to her! Just hover over the profile name and if you see that it's profile number 02407299546060974148, you'll know it's the same stupid person every time. Hover over the name "Tony O" above her comments. You'll see this:http://www.blogger.com/profile/02407299546060974148Voila! The troll is too stupid or too lazy to make different profiles for each of its sock puppets, so it just changes the display name. It's "Tony O" for now. It was once AJD. I forget what it was last week.At least a troll like "Alex" has the wherewithal to have a different account for his "Titus" persona.Verification word: dicksness. Heh. Indeed.
Have Ann and Yglesias ever done a blogging heads? That is my proposal. They are both at the same level I would guess, in that neither are experts. Global warming climate change, whatever you wanna call it would be the topic.
“They went through my desk drawers. It was bizarre and the only computer that wasn't secured was stolen. It wasn't secured because it was broken. There was nothing on it,” says Weaver. Story link. Another theory:Was Russian secret service behind leak of climate-change emails? If so, politics really does make strange bedfellows. American right making common cause with the Russian secret service.
They are both at the same level I would guess, in that neither are experts. . By no means true. Matthew Yglesias is smart and addresses the issues, not the personalities. Althouse is more like a gossip columnist. No substance and prefers to attack people rather than address issues.
Alpha, are you ever embarrassed at the end of the day, shilling for the rich and powerful? Do you ever hear a nearly inaudible voice, like the whisper of a ghost, from the nearly voiceless remains of your shriveled conscience, saying: "Why am I doing this? Why am I defending these hypocrites day after day?"Do you ever have a moment of doubt, a moment where you think to yourself: "What if the left isn't always right? What if I'm being played for a fool by people who have gotten rich off of my misplaced advocacy? What if the world isn't divided up into light (left-liberals) and darkness (non-left-liberals)?"Are you capable of shame? Of self-reflection? Of valuing truth over ideology?Do you ever feel like a 5 dollar whore at the end of a busy shift, shedding a silent tear as you dig a soiled tissue from your black vinyl purse to wipe your customer's liquid assets off your rouge-smeared cheeks?
I'm not particularly big on symbolic acts, but in honor of our brave representatives in Copenhagen I think I'm going to go light a good sized fire in the fireplace and let it burn for most of the night.
Has Alex posted under my name?Who's Alex?I am devastated. I have been used and abused.Calgon take me away.My British/Indian husband and I are going to dindin in Madison with Althouse and Meade over Christmas. Are you all jel?
John, no I didn't read the very long post claiming it was an inside job until now. Kinda busy. The person assumes that the directory structure in the zip file is identical to what was on the original server. They say that while making this point:The result is staggering, that’s a lot of email outside of what was released. . Which I've been saying about selective publishing and which defeats their idea that the released data is faithful to what was on the server. The person posting this has a clear ideological bias which they reveal in their choice of web sites and in their writing. Also, why would an internal whistle blower post this data to a web site in Russia? I think a simpler explanation is that the data was selectively published and organized into folders by whoever stole it.
Palladian: Alpha, are you ever embarrassed at the end of the day, shilling for the rich and powerful? . No. I don't and am not. You should be however. Beyond that you prove that you have nothing to add to the debate of value or substance. You're all bile, all the time.
No more farts.That will fix things.No more farts.
"You're all bile, all the time."Yellow bile or Black Bile?Your appearance does tend to unbalance my humours.
AL:More ad hominem attacks from Ann Althouse.She has attacked scientists, accusing them of being cheap whores.She routinely attacks Al Gore.She routinely mocks environmentalism.But she doesn't say why she thinks no action should be taken on global warming.Really, Ann Althouse is stooping to new lows of personal attacks rather than add anything useful to the debate.As usual AL attacks the messenger instead of the message.
My British/Indian husband and I are going to dindin in Madison with Althouse and Meade over Christmas. Are you all jel?Yes, but not if you spend the whole dinner talking about your hog.
"Yes, but not if you spend the whole dinner talking about your hog."I advise the Althouse/Meades to bring plenty of hand sanitizer and not share any entrees.
Hey Alpha, do those 1200 limos and 140 private planes used to get people to these various conventions produce less CO2 or pollution than limos and planes not used by environmentalists?
jr - the difference is that everyone else who uses a limo isn't pretending to save the world.
I'm not particularly big on symbolic acts, but in honor of our brave representatives in Copenhagen I think I'm going to go light a good sized fire in the fireplace and let it burn for most of the night.That's something of a wash as far as CO2 is concerned. Assuming you're burning wood, that is, and not coal. The wood has sequestered the carbon only recently. The bigger problem would be particulate emissions from the fireplace, but as I am not your neighbor, that's not my immediate problem.
CO2 is failing to warm us this winter. What's wrong? Isn't CO2 guaranteed to roast the world to death? I demand a better quality of CO2 that will really warm us like we were promised.
i gotta object to the tag here: hypocrisy. its not about hypocrisy. its about honesty. this behavior tells you the truth: THEY DON'T BELIEVE IT. if they did believe it, they would have skyped it. that is reynold's point, not to knock them for hypocrisy
"Deniers can take a hike."Apparently that's all they can do because the Global Warmmongers will be using all the fossil fuels.Actual leadership involves a certain amount of symbolism, of a visible willingness to share the burdens of those you seek to lead. As much as a guy like Ed Begley Jr. comes off as a bit nutty, he really does put his carbon where his mouth is, while Gore and the rest of the private jet set look like a bunch of over-inflated Marie Antoinettes with his mansion, his limos, SUVs and giant houseboat.
CO2 is failing to warm us this winter.Boston remained above freezing until this past weekend. I believe that's the latest first occurrence of 32 F.What else do you want?
MM,It's only wood but every little bit counts.Truthfully I'd have probably done it anyway given the weather.
Just as a technical point, of course trolls can be regulars.Trolling, however, is a matter of intention. One must intend to provoke and distract.We can't really know AL's intentions. He might not be trying to provoke. He could really just be that stupid.
Mad Man:Latest since when? The Ice Age, the Middle Ages, the 1960's?Sheesh.
It should be called Scamenhagen.
The well-stocked cruise ship will leave from Buenos Aires, full of only the finest food and drink for the worthies in their staterooms with balconies.Anybody want to throw in with me to rent a used WWII-era submarine with functioning torpedoes?
@Madman, Houston just set a record for the earliest snowfall in its history. The previous record was set last year.These two data points are proof positive of global cooling. Case closed.
Dear lord, if Alpha Liberal is once again defending the indefensible. When will you stop digging the hole man? You've bought into a lie because your ideology is based on that same lie. Don't you know that you are defending a lie and you can't let go because you've invested so much into the scam, the fraud, the absolute lie of it all is that you and your other leftist morons have been duped and played like tools for the last 30 years. And like a battered spouse with Stockholm syndrome you take up the cause which is based on vapor. To call you a fucking moron would be an understatement. If I could give the global warming/global cooling/climate change hoaxers an Oscar for the level of pretending they've been able to continue, I would. Oh wait, one of you already did. You're a fucking tool, you know that? What's it like walking around being a fucking tool an either not knowing it or to have it shoved in your face and still deny it?
Maybe Fraudenhagen instead?
For every anomalous cold event, an anomalous warm event can also probably be found, because anomalies are associated with highly amplified flow. New England had record high maxima and record low maxima on Saturday. Is that more impressive than a spot of snow in Texas?Snow probabilities along the Gulf States should be increased during an El Nino -- because the storm track through the southern US is more active during an El Nino year. The unusual storm is the one moving through the midwest tomorrow and Wednesday -- that's an unusual storm track for an El Nino year, when the Ohio Valley is typically dry.
Ugh. Not Record low maxima. Record high maxima and record high minima. That is, it was very warm at night too.
I am so hoping Jon Stewart is going. You think maybe? (If not, I'm sure we'll still be enlightened by him.)Anyway, a couple low level questions have slipped into my consciousness again:1. If we get rid of all that CO2 won't the trees die? (Just HS biology kicking in there.)2. How come the AGWers (xcusi -- "ClimateChangers" -- that was pretty nifty when they renamed themselves so they could cover all the bases and homeplate, too) don't bother to count the sun spots that aren't there anymore hardly? Mmmm?3. Why is Greenland called Greenland?4. If the seas are rising will the Little Mermaid get wet? 5. And what on earth (or is it water?) with the Netherlands do? Disappear?Since there is nothing I can do at all about the idiocy in Copenhagen, except to hope someone notices that Obama can't sign anything without Congress getting on board (maybe the rest of the world missed that) there may be hope. And I can muse about stupid stuff.
MadMan - So anamolous local warm events indicate global warming but anamolous local cold readings have something to do with El Nino? Really, that's the scientific consensus?
MM: "There is value to meeting face to face."AS: "Especially true if you're talking about sex workers."Oh, come on--if the workers are any good, they can accommodate all kinds of positions.
Madison Man ...I respect your analysis of weather variations. Can you explain to me why what is a weather event that cools the atmosphere is not a global cooling event but is only an event caused by what causes weather, i,e., the existence of pacific currents. I do prefer warming and hate the present cooling. However, it does disprove that CO2 ppms force a warming as it increases from a tiny amount to a tiny amount plus10% more of a tiny amount.
I heard a discussion on Bennett in the Morning today (a really good 'talk' show).Apparently Obama is set to pledge that the United States will reduce its carbon output to 85% of the 2005 levels by 2050.Someone pointed out that that would mean it would be at approximately the 1910 levels (IIRC).But since the population of the US in 1910 was significantly smaller than it is now, and certainly than it will be in 2050, the carbon footprint projected (cough cough cough cough) will be equivalent to what it is theorized it was in the US in 1875.Who's in denial now?1875 -- a year with no cars, trucks, buses. Or planes: Private or otherwise.
Sure logistics would be more difficult to arrange everybody from all parts of the globe, but this is the only way.Disingenuous. The choices are not "fly" or "walk." My husband works from home; almost everyone he communicates with is in NY, LA, or Knoxville. He skypes every day that he works.Fuck these swells if they think they're too important to do the same.
On my long drive home tonight I was fuming about what I read earlier in the day from the liberals who post here - AL, Mountain, etc.I just wanted to get back on here and rip them one. That's subsided. It makes no difference. They've made up their minds - it's not worth wasting my breath.
Maguro, if that's what you've taken to be my meaning, I apologize for unclear writing.This year, because of El Nino, the principle storm track is shifted. If you were to compare El Nino years to 'other' years, you would find that the storm track is farther south in El Nino years (the southeast US is usually very wet during an El Nino). So there are more storms tracking across the souther tier of states. If the storm track shifts really far south, the Gulf Coast will be on the cold side of an eastward moving storm. The probability of that happening increases if there are more storms, as there are this year.I'm not sure how this explains last year's storm, however :) -- other than to say rare events do happen. The storm this year was more probable than last year's, but both did occur.If the Earth is warming, then the probability of very cold events decreases, but some very cold events will still occur. The probability of very warm events should increase. The problem is that there is so much natural variability that it will be exceedingly hard to know -- for certain -- that something has happened unless you have many decades' worth of observations.
Madison Man wrote: The unusual storm is the one moving through the midwest tomorrow and Wednesday -- that's an unusual storm track for an El Nino year...If we didn't have unusual stuff happening, we wouldn't have weather.I'm very unimpressed by announcements that a weather event is highest or lowest on record. The record is simply not very long.Don't tell me about proxy calculations. Not now. I prefer history anyway.
traditionalguy, I'm having difficulty parsing your question, but I'll try to answer it.The various currents and oscillations affect the probability distribution of events. For example, positive North Atlantic Oscillation means stormier in northern Europe/dryer in southern Europe (or vice versa -- I'm not remembering right off the top of my head). But that doesn't mean that a storm won't happen where it's not "supposed" to -- just that the probability of it occurring is reduced.It's a mistake to think that a warmer Earth means it's warmer everywhere. Rather, it means the probability of extreme heat has increased, and the probability of extreme cold has decreased. CO2 concentrations have increased ~25% from 1960.
Madison Man-Please peruse the paper found at the following Link:http://www.biomind.de/nogreenhouse/daten/EE%2018-2_Beck.pdfIt is in English. Another example of an impeccably researched paper getting the shaft. I do not understand how scientists who actually care about science prefer Antarctic ice cores to actual data. Another reason why a reasonable man of science (me) cannot buy into the cult.
MM,You wrote, "It's a mistake to think that a warmer Earth means it's warmer everywhere. Rather, it means the probability of extreme heat has increased, and the probability of extreme cold has decreased."I'm not following. "A warmer Earth" means that the average global temperature is warmer than, one presumes, some past time period--say yesterday, last decade, last century--you don't say. That judgment also presumes that such a thing as "global temperature" can be reasonably measured over any time frame. I'm inclined to think that surface temperatures, with a broad margin of error, might reasonably be approximated for the last century or so, but the data is crappy.I'm less inclined to think that current temperatures (so poorly defined) can reasonably predict any future temperature regardless.
It is important to note that the majority of warming is taking place in the northern polar region. We now know that anomalous heat content in polar currents of probable volcanic origin are melting the ice, and warming the air. Don't forget that a 16 degree increase in temperature at the poles equals a one degree increase in the tropics. Yet the high polar numbers are averaged (without weighting) to give these global temperatures we see in "official" data.
I have a feeling this is the "jump the shark" moment for AGW.
"It's a hard world to get a break in, all the good things have been taken." Eric Burden......Sort of prescient!
Cute video of our betters arriving at Copenchange today.Baby You Can Drive My Car
Just spoke with my mom and she said they are going to get 14 inches tomorrow. totally jel.How mean palladian.
"Do you ever feel like a 5 dollar whore at the end of a busy shift, shedding a silent tear as you dig a soiled tissue from your black vinyl purse to wipe your customer's liquid assets off your rouge-smeared cheeks?"Genius, Palladian, just genius.
I am watching the Packers.Go Pack.
I also am burning a nice big wood fire on this frosty night. Lots and lots of wood. Mmmm fire. Man first tamed it and became man. I celebrate humanity by burning wood and being cheered by the glow of embers and flame.
My British/Indian husband and I are going to dindin in Madison with Althouse and MeadeThey're going to serve you meatloaf and tell you it's soy.
"Just spoke with my mom and she said they are going to get 14 inches tomorrow. totally jel."I'm sure you are. Because you're certainly not going to be getting 14 inches tomorrow.
I'm sure you are. Because you're certainly not going to be getting 14 inches tomorrow.Unless Dick Cheney is in town.
wv: condys! Condy's in town, and she's packing a 14-inch vibrator.
I have a feeling this is the "jump the shark" moment for AGW.Depends. Will MSM cover the summit? I saw very little coverage either way on the cable news networks (I don't watch the "Alphabets").
Is there any doubt that if environmentalists were not such sanctimonious prats, instructing the whole world how to be green, and then turning around and doing the opposite because they are too busy raising awareness of green causes to worry about their own inconsistencies, that few of us would begrudge them their jet plane rides?Of course, the issue is much more complex than their attitude. But as in any religion, people being scolded and punished for not keeping to the rules will not tardy in pointing out when the high priests themselves transgress.Cheers,Victoria
Copenhagen, by the NumbersIf you have more, please leave a comment.
"...if environmentalists were not such sanctimonious prats, instructing the whole world how to be green,..."According to AL they never did.Never told us how to live at all; never told us how important it was to reduce our carbon foot prints.Or... maybe they did do all that but they never *specifically* said not to fly to Copenhagen in a private jet... so they aren't doing what they said not to do after all. Not *Copenhagen*. I'm sure there are other places we're not supposed to fly. Unless the carbon footprint of flying was never mentioned? But I'm nearly certain it must have been. Maybe it was never mentioned *with* *destination*. So therefore those sanctimonious prats can prose on about reducing carbon in general terms while counting on the defense of the little people who follow them to point out that no, they never *once* said not to fly to Copenhagen.
AL will not even acknowledge our concerns about the private jets or the hypocrisy at all. Just keeps attacking straw men. But that's just straight Alinsky-ite fare. The key if you want to win at political battle is - "alway stay on the offensive, never admit anything".
By the by...Carbon dioxide is not, never has been and never will be a pollutant any more than water vapor is a pollutant.
I listened a little to the Carl Sagan piece. Regrettably he chastised Rep's for disbanding the Office of Science/Tech office.Yet 3 years before this interview the research on advanced nuclear reactors had been stopped by Kerry, Durbin and Clinton. This has a much bigger impact on us now.The Left love to namecall Conservative "anti-science" which is not true. The anti-nuke energy fervor has been fanned by the Left. In fact the Left tend to be on the Luddite end of things.The Left still has a hard time looking past ridiculous"solutions" like windmills. If we dropped all AGW funding and put it into adv. nuke, 30 or 40 years from now we'd be much better off. But that's too visionary for the "progressives"
I do not deny that the earth's climate has changed.I do not deny that Artic and Antartic ice has thinned and lessened.I do not deny that human beings effect our environment, often times for the worse.I do not deny that reducing carbon in and of itself is probably a good thing.I question whether all of the change in climate is human caused.I question whether some warming is necessarily a completely bad thing (if it lengthens growing seasons, that would be a good thing).I question whether a large part of the hysteria is an attempt by statists to dress up their old managerial state in the new clothes of enivronmental necessity.And in short, to paraprhase Professor Reynolds, I will believe it is a crisis when those telling me it is a crisis start acting ilike it is a crisis. Until then they should go off and eat their cavier and leave me alone.
Another example of an impeccably researched paper getting the shaft.I am not familiar with chemical methods of measuring CO2 concentrations, so on that part of the paper, I won't comment.If you are trying shift a paradigm, however, you better explain why your new measurements are accurate and the old ones aren't.
To my great shame, I have never shifted a paradigm.I have, however, busted a move and a few times I got jiggy with it.We do what we can, after all.
"Since there is nothing I can do at all about the idiocy in Copenhagen, except to hope someone notices that Obama can't sign anything without Congress getting on board (maybe the rest of the world missed that) there may be hope. "Obama's EPA is about to declare carbon dioxide to be a pollutant, which will give the EPA power to implement all sorts of policies that would never pass Congress on their own merit.
If you'd like to see a perfect example of the hypocrisy that is the modern day Enviro-Leftist, look no further than here. This fellow, Luc Binette, co-exists between Quebec and Mexico, and attends endless conferences every year. Please don't even bother mentioning him buying "carbon offsets", for that is pure nonsense about fighting carbon emissions. If Monsieur Binette REALLY cared about supposed climate change then he would live in one place and rarely travel. He does not, but expect everyone else to.H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E ! ! !
Tosa guy...The EPA just ordered a Cap with no trade exception. So Obama only has to say he is rescuing us from extinction by getting a Cap with a trade at a price bill that allows us to live in exchange for Danegeld payments to Obama's buddies said to be needed to fight warming during the coldest winter ever known. It's ChiTown extortion, pure and simple. If the Democrats stay in power in Congress there will cease to be a United States. We will be a Province of European run World Government, unless Castro and Chavez with Putin's help recieve our surrender first.
Obama's EPA is about to declare carbon dioxide to be a pollutant, which will give the EPA power to implement all sorts of policies that would never pass Congress on their own merit.Democrats in Congress are fond of their jobs. If the EPA actually goes through with this you'll see legislation to take that authority away from them.
Off topic, or maybe not, but 20,000 cops and firefighters were in Tacoma today for those four killed officers. RIP.
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