November 1, 2009

Scozzafava endorses the Democrat!

Well, then!

IN THE COMMENTS: Jason says:
[T]his is just plain dishonorable. All the people who endorsed her look bad, so does her party.
Freeman Hunt say:
And I'm with Jason, it's dishonorable. Lots of GOP establishment people went to bat for her, and now they look extremely foolish for having done so.

198 comments:

TMink said...

Here is a towel for the people who recently said she was a good R. It is only egg on your face, it will be our turn soon I imagine.

Trey

SMGalbraith said...

Off to Siberia she goes.

Buffalo will suffice.

For Frank Rich, they're the same.

And y'know, this time he just might just be right.

Titus said...

FYI I am loving lentils.

Synova said...

"It's not clear how much Scozzafava's backing of Owens will change the race. Democratic strategists, who just 48 hours ago saw the race moving back in their direction, have grown pessimistic about their chances in the aftermath of the Scozzafava decision."

So... is she trying to stick it to Hoffman, or stick it to Owens?

Maybe Frank Rich can tell us who gets shot with this double barrel shot gun. 'Cause he's so smart and all.

chickenlittle said...

This just seems to confirm what people thought of her to begin with.

Go Hoffman

wv: codsy Who's feeling codsy?

Jason (the commenter) said...

Well, this is just plain dishonorable. All the people who endorsed her look bad, so does her party.

TMink said...

Lentils are indeed yummy. They are also cheap and easy to prepare. I need to go buy some lentils. Excellent proposal Titus.

Trey

Freeman Hunt said...

LOL Looks like all the Hoffman people have been vindicated.

chickenlittle said...

Real "conservatives" like Andrew Sullivan now have a fig leaf for when they "come out" for Owens.

jayne_cobb said...

So either the base was correct about her or she is simply a petty politician.

Either way I'm now definitely glad she didn't get the job regardless of who wins.

floridaenterprise said...

I told you that fucking bitch was a Democrat.

It's time to burn down the Republican Party.

Can you believe that Newt Gingrich tried to foist this liberal cunt on us?

Burn. It. Down.

Freeman Hunt said...

And I'm with Jason, it's dishonorable. Lots of GOP establishment people went to bat for her, and now they look extremely foolish for having done so.

SMGalbraith said...

Owens? Over McNabb? What about African culture? Or something.

Yeah, it's getting crazy around these parts.

Synova said...

I don't know who floridaenterprise is but I think this is a good time to insist on ideological purity and tell it to stop pretending to be on the side of conservatives.

Synova said...

Read the comments after the article...

Scozzafava is "centrist" or "moderate" and wonderful true Republican.

Hoffman is a scary, crazy, extremist.

floridaenterprise said...

I'll just repost the comment I posted yesterday at noon, when I correctly called Scuzzyfava a Democrat:

"The honorable thing for her to do would be to stand on a podium in public and urge the voters of the district to unite behind her candidate - Doug Hoffman.

She has refused to do that. She doesn't want him to win.

She's not a Republican. She doesn't support Republican positions on the issues. She doesn't vote with the Republican Party on central issues.

She's a Democrat. And she's getting her fat ass handed to her because of her beliefs.

She's proving that she's not a Republican by refusing to endorse anyone in the race.

She wants the Democrat to win because the Democrat will vote the way she would vote on most of the issues that are important to her.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

And now the Republican Party needs to excommunicate every other So-Called Republican like her who enable the Democrat Party to win votes."


The Democrat Party has infiltrated the Republican Party and is running their candidates on our ticket using our Republican campaign donations.

It's time to end the Republican Party once and for all.

Here's one voter who's voting Conservative Party from here on out.

Freeman Hunt said...

Cross posted from Twitter:

Saw Scozzafava throw an animal under a bus... some kind of lizard... gecko?... what is that thing called.... iguana? No...

Synova said...

I suppose it's like "middle age".

Once you're not young anymore, "middle age" is whatever you are. It moves with you as you go.

Scozzafava is moderate because she's not a hard core socialist... or something.

Hoffman is an "extremist" because Hoffman isn't a firmly liberal nanny-stater.

Titus said...

A couple of additional things I am at this time and space:

Crazy for Cumin Seeds.
Pleased with Paneer
Big on Biryani
Cumming Over Curry
Hard for Herbs
Mat About Mutter

And finally...

Glad for Gobi.

Jason (the commenter) said...

floridamoby,

These are just a few one-off elections, I'm sure they will be used as a learning experience for the Republican Party. The Huckabee/McCain/Steele faction is going to fall in influence and other people will rise to take their place.

I'm interested to see what they can do.

Synova said...

"Here's one voter who's voting Conservative Party from here on out."

Yeah, they're going to welcome someone who uses the word cunt with open arms.

Sure they will.

David said...

Freeman Hunt said...
"And I'm with Jason, it's dishonorable. Lots of GOP establishment people went to bat for her, and now they look extremely foolish for having done so."

Yup. Dishonorable is the right word.

Titus said...

I am also cool with not being cirucumsized.

Or should I say I am fine with foreskin.

floridaenterprise said...

Lots of GOP establishment people went to bat for her, and now they look extremely foolish for having done so."

No ... they looked extremely foolish the day before yesterday for having done so.

Today they look just as stupid as they did 3 days ago when they were endorsing her knowing she's for card check, abortion and votes with Obamacrats 95% of the time.

Some Republicans are Democrats in disguise (John McCain do you hear us now?)

Scuzzyfava is a Democrat, as she has proven with her endorsement and as she was correctly called long before she ever endorsed the Democrat.

And she's not the only one.

It's long past time to smoke them all out. Burn 'em down.

AST said...

In for a penny, in for a poond.

I think it's time for a reassessment of the role of parties. This was a case of Republicans getting complacent and nominating someone who was unacceptable to most of the party and a lot of independents.

rcocean said...

How surprising, the RINO is a RINO. Just like Jeffords, Spector, and Chafee. Shocking.

The GOP establishment strikes again.

I'd like to think people will remember all the bloggers and politicians who told us to line up, shout our mouths, and support Scozzafava - but conservatives are like Charlie Brown and the football.

floridaenterprise said...

This was a case of Republicans getting complacent and nominating someone who was unacceptable to most of the party and a lot of independents.

I think it's much, much deeper than that.

This was a case where the candidates views were widely known within the Republican Party and she was selected because of the way she votes - like a Democrat.

Democrats have infiltrated the Party with the tacit approval of the McCain-Gingrich wing of entrenched old fuckers.

Time to prune the tree of liberty or we'll all soon be in the yoke of socialism.

MadisonMan said...

I wonder which candidate is best for the district. I don't live there and can't tell.

Titus said...

I have a confession fellow republicans...I love bowling alley food.

From Wisconsin, natch.

The Waun-A-Bowl in Waunakee has amazing food.

The cheesesteaks are to die for. French Fries and Deep Fried White Cheese Curds are amazing.

And you can't beat a Tombstone Pizza made in a bar pizza oven.

If I did live in Wisconsin I would be fat, but instead I live on the fabulous east coast and I am thin and gorgeous. Oh well, choices we make.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Who, Democrat or Republican, would want to work with Scozzafava now? She's made it known that if she gets in a difficult position she'll have an emotional reaction and injure all the people around her. It doesn't matter if they put their reputation on the line for her or not.

Before today I thought she could have come back in a few years. Now, I don't see a future for her at all.

Titus said...

An addendum to our little overnight in Salem.

Wherever my beautiful Indian Husband and I go people look at us.

I know the difference between a look that says "he's a fag" and a look that says "they are hot".

Last night the looks were "they are hot".

My Indian Boyfriend has an amazing body and he busts out of his shirts and straight guys, yes straight guys, were sizing him up everywhere. They respected the huge guns, beautiful hair, appropriate attire and peaceful karma. But most of all they were in awe of his body. These were not "sexual" looks but looks for admiration.

I was ok with the straighties doing that but as soon as I saw a mo doing it I was giving her a crusty.

Balfegor said...

And I'm with Jason, it's dishonorable. Lots of GOP establishment people went to bat for her, and now they look extremely foolish for having done so.

Well, sure they look foolish, but what's dishonourable about it? We knew she was a solid liberal from the get-go. That's why people thought she was a terrible candidate. It's not dishonourable for her to turn around and endorse the liberal in the race. It's principled. What would make it dishonourable is if she had misled people into believing she was a moderate or a conservative, and she flipped on them out of pique.

floridaenterprise said...

Who, Democrat or Republican, would want to work with Scozzafava now?

The Democrats will definitely work with Scuzzyfava. She's been doing yeoman's work for their party for some time now.

When you're running disguised candidates, eventually some of them are going to get caught. That's a given in this game.

She'll be welcomed back same as Russian spies are welcomed back in CIA prisoner exchanges.

She'll be lucky if she doesn't get one in the hat.

elHombre said...

Well, Republicans have taken another step toward confirming that they are too stupid to regain a majority in either house.

Contrary to my original sentiments, she apparently deserves the vilification heaped on her by conservatives. However, it is possible that this sleaziness will bring attention to her withdrawal which, since her name will still be on the ballot, may help Hoffman.

Fred4Pres said...

Dede was no friggin good. Good riddens to her, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

And Newt, excellent pick there big guy. How about praying for redemntion and politicing for Hoffman. And Mitt, way too late but a little help is warranted here.

elHombre said...

What would make it dishonourable is if she had misled people into believing she was a moderate or a conservative .... (3:39)

She tried, but that still doesn't make it dishonorable. She's a lefty, so we don't call such an action "dishonorable." We call it "being a lefty" or "par for the course."

Jason (the commenter) said...

Balfegor: Well, sure they look foolish, but what's dishonourable about it?

She had a responsibility to the people who endorsed her and the people who were supporting her because she was the Republican candidate.

The people who endorsed her aren't just going to look foolish. They may not have jobs in a few months. They may quietly be pushed out of the way.

That's not something you should do to people who stood up for you when you were being criticized.

That's why I'm saying "dishonorable". Even if you think that's the wrong word, I'm sure you agree what she did was bad.

former law student said...

The national Republican Party is going down the same road as California's GOP: ideological purity is everything; "RINOs" must be purged. This is completely satisfying unless you want congressmen with (R)'s after their name.

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned -- Scozzafava's merely following that truism. And the GOP's merely following the cry of their predecessor's founder, Henry Clay: "I'd rather be right than President."

trogdor said...

Wow, it's like Republicans have their very own Joe Lieberman!

Henry said...

I think pretty much everyone forgets how incredibly oddball local politics can be.

careen said...

I thought something else was going on - I figured someone pressured her behind the scenes, but didn't imagine this. Drama!

Freeman Hunt said...

This is completely satisfying unless you want congressmen with (R)'s after their name.

What difference do the (R)'s by their names make if they always vote with the (D)'s? It's not like (or shouldn't be like) we each pick a team to be a fan of, R or D, and we just want the team to win. It's the ideas that matter.

Florida said...

"RINOs" must be purged. This is completely satisfying unless you want congressmen with (R)'s after their name.

We don't want congressmen with R's after their names. Never have.

We want Congressman who vote our values - and these ones don't.

It's never been about Republican or Democrat. It's about liberal or conservative. It's about principle.

Too many "republicans" are really liberal Democrats sent into our party to run on our tickets with our money.

Fuck that.

So, where we find them, we're going to destroy their political careers as much as we can, as quickly as we can, and as hard as we can. And as often as we can.

I, for one, don't care one whit whether Hoffman wins or loses - as long as Scuzzyfava got burned down. That was always the goal. Hoffman better vote right, or he'll be next on the fire pit.

The next goal is ousting those who put her up and propped Scuzzyfava up.

She was a good canary in the coal mine. We now know who to purge. We now know who in the Republican Party is really working for the other side.

Burn. Them. Down.

Burn them all down.

edutcher said...

Jason (the commenter) said...

Who, Democrat or Republican, would want to work with Scozzafava now?

It's a little like the Soviets. Once people like Kim Philby had done as much damage as they could and then defected, the Russians pensioned them all off to little dachas in the country, away from anything important. Their theory was: if you turn your coat once, you'll have no problem doing it again.

However, contrary to what fls/Montagne/Freder/Brazil/whatever is spouting, this is what the party needs. The fellow travelers like Dede and Specter are out for good and all. Jason is right when he says, "The Huckabee/McCain/Steele faction is going to fall in influence and other people will rise to take their place.". The country club wing of the GOP is committing hara-kiri.

Buford Gooch said...

Titus said: The Waun-A-Bowl in Waunakee has amazing food.

When you're right, you're right. I used to work for the Kaltenbergs in Waunakee, and ate at the Waun-A-Bowl often. Great bar food.

Jason (the commenter) said...

trogdor: Wow, it's like Republicans have their very own Joe Lieberman!

Lieberman won his election.

former law student said...

this is what the party needs. The fellow travelers like Dede and Specter are out for good and all.

I guess Frank Rich was right. The GOP Stalinists have purged Scozzafava and now, like Trotsky, she must move to Mexico.

ricpic said...

It's the first halfway honorable thing she's done. She's outing herself as the lib she denied being up to this point.

EDH said...

Still, I see this defection only working even more in Hoffman's favor.

Scozzafava's 20% was probably GOP loyalists. Can anyone see a majority of them now voting for Owens (or her) after her endorsement of the Democrat?

It's not clear how much Scozzafava's backing of Owens will change the race. Democratic strategists, who just 48 hours ago saw the race moving back in their direction, have grown pessimistic about their chances in the aftermath of the Scozzafava decision.

Polling conducted by the Siena Research Institute -- and released on Saturday -- showed that more than 60 percent of Scozzafava backers were self-identified Republicans, meaning that the majority of them are likely to back Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman.

JAL said...

rcocean: but conservatives are like Charlie Brown and the football.

Au countraire rc -- I think this is the tip of the proverbial iceberg which the GOP muckety mucks would like to think isn't really there.

I think the deal is the GOP has been Lucy, and the conservatives are finding their voice and some power and going -- "No way!"

And unlike Charlie Brown, meaning it.

wv defer (heh)
The conservatives are not going to defer to the beltway Repubs

Synova said...

"...ideological purity is everything..."

How is this about "purity", FLS?

Rich framed it that way. Gingrich framed it that way. But how are they actually right? How was Scozzafava opposed because she lacked ideological "purity"? Did she differ on one thing? Two? Half a dozen policies?

Hoffman isn't "pure" either. He's just recognizably conservative. Not pure.

It's not an issue of "purity" or "100% agreement" to want a candidate who is recognizably *not* a member of the other party.

It's not a matter of "purity" for people in other districts and other parts of the country to want someone who is not near guaranteed to vote the *other* party line.

Like Freeman said... this isn't like sports teams where you pick one side to be a fan of and hope they win.

edutcher said...

former law student said...

I guess Frank Rich was right. The GOP Stalinists have purged Scozzafava and now, like Trotsky, she must move to Mexico.

No more than what the Demos have been doing successfully for the past forty years or so. Did they ever let Robert Casey, Sr. speak at a national convention?

Jason (the commenter) said...

former law student: The national Republican Party is going down the same road as California's GOP: ideological purity is everything; "RINOs" must be purged.

She supported the stimulus plan. This election is hardly about ideological purity. I would expect activism against any Republican who supported the plan and made nice with Obama.

And upstate New York is not about ideological purity. Years ago there was an openly gay Republican mayor in Plattsburg. He was very popular.

Judging the Republican Party by what happens in upstate New York is like judging the Democrats by what happens in Vermont, with their Bernie Sanders (whom the Democrats wont let join their party).

Buford Gooch said...

From my reading, online and other places, Scozzafava's voting record was to the left of a large number of Democrats.

rhhardin said...

She lacks a man's losing-with-grace instincts.

And therefore also any intuition about how things look.

Synova said...

OTOH, FLS... perhaps a grave injustice has been done. Perhaps Scozzafava really was a strong conservative where it counts and only had a few off-putting social liberalisms. No?

If this is about ideological purity and purging the unclean (and I am utterly ignoring florida) then you should be able to point out Scozzafava's conservative back-bone that she's been so unfairly accused of not having.

Heck, I like Giuliani. I think he's got strong conservative sensibilities. So it ought not be that hard to convince me that Scozzafava has been wronged.

Synova said...

Really... maybe it's not true that she supports Card Check.

former law student said...

How is this about "purity", FLS?

How is it not? The quest for ideological purity was the only reason there's a third candidate to begin with.

floridaenterprise said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Buford Gooch said...

FLS-blind to anything but liberal orthodoxy, as always. There was a third party candidate precisely because Scozzafava was completely outside of acceptable political candidacy for the Republican party. Face it, you would have been happy to vote for her. That should always be the kiss of death for a Republican candidate.

floridaenterprise said...

"It's not an issue of "purity" or "100% agreement" to want a candidate who is recognizably *not* a member of the other party."

Scuzzyfava is for eliminiating the secret ballot. I mean, god almighty what more do we really need to know about her belief system?

Her husband is President of a union.

What more do you need to know?

May as well elect Jane Fonda.

She's a flaming fat ugly evil socialist Democrat. She just endorsed a Democrat after saying on Friday, and I quote:

"I am and have always been a proud Republican. It is my hope that with my actions today, my party will emerge stronger ..."

What a load of pathetic bullshit.

With friends like these (do you hear us now Newt?) who needs enemies?

The Republican Party has been infiltrated by Democrats. They're stealing our money. Scuzzyfava got $900,000 of our dollars.

Time to flush it and start a new Conservative Party.

Harsh Pencil said...

No. No. No.

This would be about ideological purity if she had been basically a conservative but pro-choice, or differed from party line one or two issues.

I what way, seriously, was she not simply a liberal who happened to call herself a Republican. Seriously.

SMGalbraith said...

Trotsky didn't move to Mexico. He fled.

If Scozzafava winds up with a ice pick in the head, then the analogy might start to make sense.

Well, all of her supporters must be shot too.

Just for starters.

Fred4Pres said...

The Biggest Losers from all of this:

Newt and Mitt. They hurt themselves big time. Newt by actively campaigning for her and Mitt by his silence.

They should be begging for forgiveness now.

Beta Conservative said...

Was Lieberman purged when the Lefty Hero Markos started showing up in ads for Lamont and Joe enbded up running as an independent?

This a good thing that has happened, but it is not new and to relate it to the Soviet purges is silly.

Big Mike said...

Scozzafava would have been in a stronger position had she merely released her supporters -- which she initially did on Friday -- and stepped aside and seen Owens win. Right now I see no scenarios from here with an upside for her. And I my politican instincts tell me that it's much more likely that Hoffman will win after Scozzafava's endorsement of the Democrat than had she merely remained neutral.

Whatever else she is, she is not a particularly good politician.

trogdor said...

“Jason (the commenter) said...
Lieberman won his election.”

I’m talking about the primary, not the general. Lieberman wasn’t liberal enough, so he lost, and he reacted to this by throwing party identification out the window and fighting the Democratic candidate, much to the embarrassment of the many prominent Democrats who had supported him in the primaries. But he was still a proud Democrat, he claimed. Dot dot dot.

You don’t see any parallels here? Why does Lieberman become Senator “Bravely Fights for his Moderate Beliefs” while Scozzafava becomes “Liberal Traitor”?

rhhardin said...

Astonishingly, the Republican nominee in the special election has dropped out, and endorsed the Democrat! Just hours before she endorsed the Democrat, she received calls from Barack Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. She also received calls from the Chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, Senator Chuck Schumer. Was Scozzafava promised something in return for her endorsement of the Democrat? Time will tell.

Maggie's Farm.

Synova said...

Lieberman wasn't liberal enough so some really big out-of-state money went to his Democratic challenger in an effort to defeat him.

There may well be parallels.

And if rejecting Scozzafava is a crazy-person Stalinist demand for party purity, then the parallel is that Democrats are crazy-person Stalinists as well.

Synova said...

Lieberman is only "impure" in a couple of areas, though, and far from any sort of conservative.

1jpb said...

W/o titus this thread would be the definition of boring-boilerplate-blather.

Of course, even w/o Titus, I would still appreciate observing the earnest sincerity of Althouse blatherers who are blind to their chronic error of mistaking their own dopiness for profound insight.

Please continue with the "who's a real conservative" and "I've always been a real conservative" chit chat.

Funny stuff.

BTW, Palin (a real conservative) was right about this trader. So, this should move her to the front of the line (if she's not already there) of the GOP P candidate hopefuls for 2012. [And a few point for Timmy--who's still never going to be as popular as Palin w/ the Rich Starbursts Lowry crowd.]

P.S. Has this district been solidly R since the 19th century w/o the local Rs being helped/overrun with outsider national R folks? And, who did the vacating R end up working for? I wonder if the guy who hired McHugh is loving this clusterfuck associated w/ a solid R seat.

Carry on Rs...I'll bring the pitchforks, you bring the torches.

traditionalguy said...

Ideological purity sounds like True Believer Mental Illness stuff. That seems to be the Marxists spin du jour now for all Americans who think for themselves. The simple category "Republican" means nothing if the Congress Person always votes with the Democrats. But apparently it takes an insane Believer in All Things Ideological to notice that basic truth.

Synova said...

Me: "How is this about "purity", FLS?"

FLS: "How is it not? The quest for ideological purity was the only reason there's a third candidate to begin with."

How is it about *purity*?

I'm not asking you a trick question. Yes, of *course* it's about the fact that she does not appear to be any sort of conservative *at all*... but that is not "purity". That is not, as Gingrich tried to claim, about being "100%" in line.

"Purity" implies that people are being particularly picky about an issue or two for someone who is otherwise unexceptionable.

I realize that libertarians are always on about the Democrats and their clones the Republicans, and the Republicans and their clones the Democrats... but there ought to be some identifiable difference between people running for the two parties.

That's not insisting on purity.

Perhaps you could tell us how Scozzafava fits better with Republicans than with Democrats. Not fits *perfectly* but just in any significant ideological way. Maybe the Card Check thing is just an odd outlier, hum?

Synova said...

Really... if you're an omnivore but you want more meat than veggies or more veggies than meat... you're an omnivore and it's not about *purity*.

If you're a vegetarian who thinks that the odd brown speck in your eggs is most likely a stray bit of someone elses breakfast sausage and you throw a fit... that's worry about purity.

If you're a carnivore who spies a stray bean in your meat-only chili and throws a fit... that's worry about purity.

floridaenterprise said...

"Whatever else she is, she is not a particularly good politician.

She's a really good eater though, judging by her massive obesity and ginormously fat ass.

The lesson here is clear: Don't. Run. Fatties.

mawzphoto said...

Scozzafeva isn't the Lieberman parallel here. Hoffman is.

Lieberman is a strong liberal who ran 3rd party to prevent someone who'd only become the candidate due to non-local leadership from winning. Sounds more like Hoffman than Scozzafeva to me.

Scozzafeva is arguably to the left of Owens. She was inflicted on the distric by GOP leadership and Hoffman made his run because she wasn't a recognizable Republican in any way aside from the R after her name on the ballot. Lieberman and Scozzafeva both vote 95% in line with the Dems.

Chase said...

Anyone else see this comin' a while back? Typical Democrat plan - Divide and Conquer. Hey, don't knock it - it works for Dems all the time.

Democrats don't care how they win, dirty or not. What's important is that they win. The words of Malcolm X repeat over and over in the minds of Democrats running for office: "By any means necessary."

Why is this a surprise to anyone?

Fortunately, the public is waking up - slowly, but surely, to the dithering speech giver and his ilk. It's still too early to take full effect in this week's elections, but the with the dithering, partisan damage done to the US more and more in place, the rescue is coming in the form of the more and more fed-up American people coming to their senses.

C'mon, Nov 2010!!!!!

victoria said...

Girl, you rock!!!! Scozzafava you are right on!!! Take that, neocons!

Skipper50 said...

Nothing like proving your critics right.

phosphorious said...

Does it matter at all that the republicans who actually live there seem to prefer Scozzafava, and kind of see Hoffman as a carpetbagger?

Paco Wové said...

"Neocons"?

victoria said...

Ok, take that you conservatives!!! Go Owens!!!!
When Corzine and other democrats win this week, what's going to be you excuses for losing, rigged elections? That's a pile.

phosphorious said...

More than a few of you have said that "democrats have infiltrated the GOP!!!!!"

You probably used more exclamation points, but that's the gist of it.

So, I'm dying of curiosity: do you mean this literally? Do you seriously think that there has been a covert attempt by the democrats to infiltrate your organization?

Or is this merely that patented Althousian overheated hysteria?

I honestly can't tell.

Balfegor said...

Does it matter at all that the republicans who actually live there seem to prefer Scozzafava, and kind of see Hoffman as a carpetbagger?

Uh, do they? Look at the crosstabs at the bottom here. Last question asks who you would vote for if the election were held today. As I read it, Scozzafava only gets 29% of Republicans in NY-23. Hoffman gets 50%. Carpetbagger or no, Republicans actually living in the district seem to prefer Hoffman by a 20% margin, which is quite substantial.

Synova said...

"Does it matter at all that the republicans who actually live there seem to prefer Scozzafava, and kind of see Hoffman as a carpetbagger?"

Well, he can't win then. Right?

Balfegor said...

Sorry, last question on the first page I should have said. It's Q5.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Trogdor at 4 PM lol.

You'd have to with someone cool enough to pick the name Trogdor.

Let the circular firing squad begin!

Henry said...

Let me put in a word for Lincoln Chafee and also tell a story about how local politics does not resemble the national spin.

There are few truly independently minded people in politics, but Chafee is one of them. I voted for him in 2000 and 2006 and hope to vote for him for governor in 2010. He is a completely different character than the reptilian Specter. I think he's an idiot for supporting Obama, and disagree with him on a number of issues, but he's one of the few politicians whose independence I respect.

Chafee was defeated by Democratic party apparatchik Sheldon Whitehouse in 2006 after spending most of his finance money beating back primary challenger Steve Laffey. Laffey had earned kudos as a fiscal realist for his success in bringing the city of Cranston back from bankruptcy, but he chose to run against Chafee on social issues. He basically ran baby-killer attack ads whose egregious insinuations convinced me that I would never vote for the man.

This story takes place in Rhode Island, where only moderate Republicans have a chance. Watertown, New York is a different place. Apparently the biggest issue of the campaign is who will keep Fort Drum alive, but what do I know? I lived long enough in rural New York (a different part of rural New York) to know that the eastern seaboard types don't have a clue.

Local issues don't necessarily cut conservative and liberal.

Synova said...

"Neocons"?

You see... neocons are not real conservatives... real conservatives only vote for liberals.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

Lieberman was the moderate-liberal in his race. It was a hard-core socialist that the DNC supported.

In this case, there was no primary and the RNC said "Here is your champion, plebes, now rally around her and prepare to do or die for her".

As a sexist side note, never, ever give a woman who is past her years of beauty power. Whether is is a home-owners association or a Senate Seat, she will be out to control EVERYTHING, lashing out at father time (and every male figure she can find) for the crime of not keeping her 21.

former law student said...

Synova's point seems to be that Scozzafava's too impure for Hoffman to represent a pure candidate. This is too subtle for me to understand.

Whatever. Hoffman is a purer candidate. His entry into the race painted Scozzafava as a liberal. Scozzafava now says, fine, have it your way. If you think adhering to the right-wing line is the winning strategy, go ahead and try.

The race is now a referendum on Conservatism, and Palin will lose prestige if Hoffman loses.

former law student said...

It was a hard-core socialist that the DNC supported.

Norman Thomas is dead, dude.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Oh, as long as Synova is going to get the kudos that comes with the intellectual honesty that ideological purity doesn't comprehend, let's answer.

The difference was that key figures in the Democratic party establishment didn't decide to throw Lieberman out and back the other guy.

(Who nobody knows anymore).

Scozzafava however seems to lack Lieberman's political experience (as do many RRRRR's nowadays).

The problem with ideological purity is that it doesn't apply to federalism. Conservatives in some areas of the country may regress at a faster pace than conservatives in other areas of the country. Same idea with the progressives. But it's about tolerance, you see - that allowed the Democrats to fight out their ideological battle with Lieberman in an ideological realm. They didn't suffer the scattershot in the political arena that The Party of The Circular Firing Squad will now most likely suffer.

Monkeyboy said...

So the question remains unaswered. How is DScozzafava in any way a Republican? What issues is in line with the majority of republicans?

I'm serious, anyone?

phosphorious said...

"Well, he can't win then. Right?"

Sure he can win, if republicans vote their party, the way most peopel do in these local elections.

But let's face it: Scozzafava was chosen by local republican leaders who presumably know the lay of the land.

Everyone here has simply rejected out of hand the possibility that her "liberalism" is the product of a prudent assessment of what will fly in this district.

You all seem quite ready to assume that Sara Palin and Tim Pawlenty. . . republicans from thousands of miles away. . . have a better idea of what upstate newyorkers really want.

You seem to think that Scozzafava represents corrupt, mercenary party politics, whereas whatsisface represents true principle. But he was supported by big money from across the nation. . . and in interviews couldn't demonstrate any knowledge of local issues.

You all seem so jubilant and triumphal, so I kind of hate to say it. . . . but maybe this isn't quite the major victiry you think it is.

phosphorious said...

Monkeyboy,

So the question remains unaswered. How is DScozzafava in any way a Republican? What issues is in line with the majority of republicans?

I'm serious, anyone?


She was endorsed by the NRA.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Sigh. Upstate New York. Home state of one of the most liberal, and biggest cities in the country. Influential cultural and financial capital of the world. Just a few hundred miles from upstate - which borders the socialist utopias of Canada. And Vermont.

To think that you're going to have a long-term success for your party by forcing a square peg into the round hole that is the 23rd district is a fool's errand. Better go for party unity and a big tent then by forcing the mores of the most hard-core areas of the flyover practically into Ben and Jerry's country.

The funny thing about R's is that they carry out the principles of Macchiavelli with all the spectacle of Bozo the Clown.

Paco Wové said...

"Does it matter at all that the republicans who actually live there seem to prefer Scozzafava, and kind of see Hoffman as a carpetbagger?"

Is there any truth to these assertions? At all?

I'm almost in awe of somebody that can lie that blatantly.

1jpb said...

Hey Chase,

RE: "The words of Malcolm X repeat over and over in the minds of Democrats"

He also said that he preferred Rs because Rs were wolves, but Ds were wolves in lamb's clothing.

I'm not sure that the Ds are repeating everything X said.

former law student said...

What issues is in line with the majority of republicans?

At least according to wikip, she is an investment advisor -- they usually come down hard on the side of Capitalism. According to her website, she's a vice president of a small firm -- more
Capitalism. She's a member of her local Farm Bureau -- they usually support the right of farmers to make a living. As a politician she's worked to stop domestic violence and the sexual abuse of children -- I daresay most Republicans agree with those positions.

Maguro said...

Sure he can win, if republicans vote their party, the way most peopel do in these local elections.

But Hoffman is not the Republican candidate, he's running for the Conservative Party, and the Republican candidate has just endorsed the Democrat. So party loyalty is not going to win the election for Hoffman.

But let's face it: Scozzafava was chosen by local republican leaders who presumably know the lay of the land.

If Dede was what the voters really wanted, none of this would've happened. Anyway, if you're right and the voters really want that kind of candidate, Owens will win easily. We'll see what happens Tuesday.

Synova said...

"Sure he can win, if republicans vote their party, the way most peopel do in these local elections."

And why would they?

If they were prepared to vote for Scozzafava on the basis of local political concerns, why not vote for Owens? Or vote for Scozzafava anyway. There's not time to get her name off the ballots, is there? And she actually endorsed Owens. That's like a great big green light to any Republican who wanted to vote for her and not Hoffman to go ahead and vote for Owen.

These people are not being held hostage to their party.

In fact, that's more or less the whole point!

phosphorious said...

Paco Wove,

"Does it matter at all that the republicans who actually live there seem to prefer Scozzafava, and kind of see Hoffman as a carpetbagger?"

Is there any truth to these assertions? At all?

I'm almost in awe of somebody that can lie that blatantly.


It's pretty clear that the republicans who supported Scozzafava are not very pleased with Hoffman. Soem polls suggest that with them it's a toss-up between Hoffman and Owens.

That they consider Hoffman to be a carpetbagger was based on anecdote; I retract the statement and beg forgiveness for introducing it to the Very Important People of Althousia.

Paco Wové said...

Well, that is appreciated. I was going to retract my nasty statement anyway, because I read the comments to Althouse's linked article and saw that there was somebody who used the "c-bagger" word. So that does support your assertion, somewhat.

Pastafarian said...

Brazilian Samba (or BS for short), if your round peg is going to vote for card check, then to hell with that particular square hole; you can have it.

The reason liberals/leftists are leaping to the defense of this RINO is the fact that asshats like this give your party cover -- every time Snowe and Collins vote for some steaming pile of shit, the Democrats can declare it "bipartisan legislation".

The Republican Party would be much better off with full-fledged Democrats in place of all these RINOs, so that the Democrats can completely own the devastating effects of their stupendously stupid policies.

Titus said...

Fellow republicans did you know the star in The Orphans' daddy was the chairman of the republican party in Dane County, wisconsin?

Methadras said...

Just reinforcing the idea that being a republic isn't synonymous with being a conservative. Especially if you come from the North Eastern political elite enclaves.

Balfegor said...

It's pretty clear that the republicans who supported Scozzafava are not very pleased with Hoffman. Soem polls suggest that with them it's a toss-up between Hoffman and Owens.

If we restrict it to that 29% minority of Republicans who supported Scozzafava, then okay, sure, I see your point. But that indicates that her nomination was a total own-goal on the part of the local Republican leaders, nominating a woman whom only 29% of local Republicans are willing to support, and ceding 50% of their base to a third party candidate. Total incompetence.

phosphorious said...

Here's another question:

How many of you who feel that the GOP has strayed from its conservative fundamentals ALSO miss Bush?

miller said...

Well, that was stupid of her. She could have stayed silent, but instead she's burnt her bridges.

How is Owens the better "republican" candidate than Hoffman?

I think she reacted emotionally and not logically.

former law student said...

Well, that was stupid of her. She could have stayed silent, but instead she's burnt her bridges.

She's burnt her bridges? Just how much shit do Republicans expect the candidates they've screwed to eat?

Titus said...

Who amongst us doesn't want to see Novers Tits?

You know they are patriotic, erect and totally republican and red state.

There are also tough on terrorism.

lucid said...

This is an opportunistic move on Scozzafava's part. She is positioning herself for a postion in the Obama administration. She was already unwelcome among Republicans, and thye don't have the big patronage bank right now. So, she has endeared herself to Rahm Emmanuel and David Axelrod and Obama. She will certainly be offered a job in the next few months. Perhaps she can be Rahm's assistant for backstabbing.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Brazillian: Sigh. Upstate New York. Home state of one of the most liberal, and biggest cities in the country. Influential cultural and financial capital of the world. Just a few hundred miles from upstate - which borders the socialist utopias of Canada. And Vermont.

I grew up in the 23rd Congressional District. I knew many people who had never been to Canada, Vermont, or New York City. Those places might as well have been a thousand miles away. Sure, we got Canadian tourists, but they weren't spouting politics. They preferred us to Vermont where people literally had signs in their front yards promoting the expulsion of outsiders (us!).

There's a mountain range between us and New York City, a border crossing between us and Canada, and a lake you have to pay a ferry to cross between us and Vermont.

We're friendly people surrounded by a lot of trees. If Hoffman wins the election he'll probably be completely bland and indistinguishable from his Republican counterparts.

The elections wont have any dire effects on the surrounding regions. We've always been a foreign land to them just like they've always been a foreign land to us.

Chase said...

Shades of Frank Rich-style disingenuousness and misrepresentation practiced by:

BSR:

The difference was that key figures in the Democratic party establishment didn't decide to throw Lieberman out and back the other guy.

See,there you go re-writing history; who are you, Media Matters?! Your statement true true only if you don't consider Harry Reid and Chris Dodd key figures in the Democrat Party.

Liberals - you got to love their attempts at pulling fast ones!

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

So much political analysis, so wasted on the purists. Here's the short form:

Different points of view are discomfiting to the R machine. They and the rogue candidates who espouse them must be assimilated. We are The Borg.

Freeman Hunt said...

At least according to wikip, she is an investment advisor -- they usually come down hard on the side of Capitalism. According to her website, she's a vice president of a small firm -- more
Capitalism. She's a member of her local Farm Bureau -- they usually support the right of farmers to make a living. As a politician she's worked to stop domestic violence and the sexual abuse of children -- I daresay most Republicans agree with those positions.


LOL

I should hope that opposition to beating women and raping children is pretty much universal. Not a GOP qualifier.

And having various jobs does not make one a particular political stripe. All sorts of people in finance and business love government largess and/or have no understanding of political ideology.

JAL said...

carpetbagger ?

Carpetbagger: thy name is spelled
H-i-l-l-a-r-y R-o-d-h-a-m C-l-i-n-t-o-n

Apparently Hoffman was around to run the finances of the Olympics in Lake Placid a million years or so before Hillary knew there was a place called Chappaqua.

Jason (the commenter) said...

phosphorious: How many of you who feel that the GOP has strayed from its conservative fundamentals ALSO miss Bush?

I voted for Bush the first time, but not the second. Didn't like his big spending, how he treated the military, or how he used anti-gay themes in his second election. My feathers still ruffle when I hear a politician talk about "families" (that means you Huckabee!).

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Oh yeah! Like Harry Reid and Chris Dodd are anywhere near as influential among Democrats as Sarah Palin is among Republicans. I think not.

Alex said...

LOL.. Yeah continue to enforce conservative purity tests. You'll have the Republican party down to the hard-core 15%. Congrats. I'm SO looking forward to Democrat rule the rest of my life!

Alex said...

BSS - but Obama is the #1 most influential Democrat, and he's now a proven Maoist.

Chase said...

Nice try, BSR!

Typical liberal! Caught with your pants down, you change the subject.

Come away from the dark side, BSR!

Or has lying and getting caught become second nature to you? Choosing to view the world only through everything Pelosi and Obama say will do that to you.

Sad.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Obama didn't go to endorse Ned Lamont in 2006 either. And it wouldn't have mattered - Maoist-size political influence in 2009 notwithstanding.

Hey, from my perspective this is fun to watch. They can take or leave their constituents' pick of candidates. I just think it's stupid strategy.

Alex said...

BSS - it's only a matter of weeks until Anita Dunn is thrown under the bus. You can thank Glenn Beck again. You must really hate that guy by now!

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Not as sad as refusing to acknowledge that Palin energizes her base about a thousand times more fervently than bores like Harry Reid does his. That's precisely the subject. And who cares about Chris Dodd? Where did he come in during the primaries?

Anyone else?

The point is that the Dems understand the difference between boring, procedural politicking and politics as a form of excitement!.

Kos tried to push the Lamont thing. No one else with any clout did. The Dems didn't have clout, remember? They still had no control over any branch of the government.

Now who's re-writing history and changing the subject.

I'm not a liberal in the pejorative, over-simplified partisan sense. Support your doctrinaire candidate all you want. Throw in the weight of the celebupol Palin behind him too. There is no analogy between that and what happened in Connecticut in 2006. And the aftermath is constructive - assuming you care to learn from your "enemies'" mistakes. But maybe you don't.

Pogo said...

Conservatives are consigned to irrelevance if they don't support the GOP candidates that are statists.

Of course, conservatives are consigned to irrelevance if they do support GOP candidates that install statism.

"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle."

""The enemy," retorted Yossarian with weighted precision, "is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on, and that includes Colonel Cathcart. And don't you forget that, because the longer you remember it, the longer you might live.""

LoafingOaf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Henry said...

@Jason. I grew up in the 21st Congressional District and lived for two years in the much more rural 26th district. Through my wife I have connections to communities in the Catskills and Adirondacks, both of which have profound local control issues with Albany and downstate.

I saw Brazilian's bizarre statement also and wondered if it was supposed to be parody. But parody of what? Frank Richness? I may continue to read BSR that way. It gives the nonsense some meaning.

Anyway, national politics plays out in local races in very odd ways. You probably have more of a clue than the rest of us.

Alex said...

Pogo - the conclusion to come to is that most Americans have embraced statism and there's no way for libertarian values to win in this environment. Notice I didn't say "conservative" as I view that as the right-wing version of statism. What we have going on now is the equivalent of the early 1500s Protestant Reformation where the secularists were caught in the middle by the Lutherian fanatics and the Catholic fanatics. 400 years later, same deal.

Chase said...

BSR shown wrong again!
Althouse Readers ponder if anything BSR writes is truthful.

The spanking continues:


BSR wrote: Obama didn't go to endorse Ned Lamont in 2006 either.

Au contraire my honesty-challenged friend:

Lamont gets lift from Obama, Lieberman campaigns with Landrieu

By Andrew Miga, Associated Press Writer | October 26, 2006

HARTFORD, Conn. --Ned Lamont got a boost Thursday from one of the Democratic party's brightest rising stars, Sen. Barack Obama.
The Illinois senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate sent an e-mail message to his Connecticut supporters urging them to rally behind Lamont's challenge to three-term Sen. Joe Lieberman.
"Ned Lamont has waged an impressive grass roots campaign to give the people of Connecticut a choice in the November Senate election," Obama wrote. "Please join me in supporting Ned Lamont with your hard work on-the-ground in these closing weeks of the campaign."
The Lamont camp said Obama's e-mail went to about 5,000 Connecticut residents.

LoafingOaf said...

Not as sad as refusing to acknowledge that Palin energizes her base....

I can see how energized they are. The Little Green Footballs blog, the other day, highlighted tons of comments at Right-Wing bloig Hot Air that were saying they want Texas to secede from the union if the hard-right doesn't get its way. OH, kinda like how Todd Palin was into a party that wants Alaska to secede from the union.

The hard-right always amaze with their patriotism.

Alex said...

I meant 500 years later. The Protestant Reformation happened approx 500 years ago.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Oh. Ok. Gloat in your insignificant correction. You still understand that Lamont lost, right?

Alex said...

LoafingOaf - funny you cite LGF as that blog is tanking in visits and users. It's a shadow of itself, while Althouse is blowing up all over the internet.

LoafingOaf said...

Ohhh, fun. We're watching "moderate" blogger Althouse rooting on the Religious Right's purge of all moderates from the GOP who don't pass their social issues litmus tests! Look at her helping her ultra-right-wing commenters smear her as a dishonorable person.

Could it be that she thinks a representative from her district should actually be someone who cares about her district instead of being a puppet for hardcore ideologues from out of town? Could it be the Religious Right is using this race to test their power to force all moderates out of the GOP? Strnge how Althouse seems so excited about people who want one of our two major parties to take down the "big tent" and purge all moderate voices from it.

As with how they want that dimwhit, Sarah Palin, to be America's president and commander-in-chief just because she didn't abort her baby and and looked sexy when she ran around the country saying Obama is a best pal of terrorists, these hard-right crazies are pushing Hoffman even though they know very little about him -- apart from that he doesn't like gay people and wants abortion to be illegal.

The hard-right commenters of Althouse scandalized this web site just a couple weeks ago, when Andrew Sullivan shined a spotlight on them and found they were engaged in a frenzy of despicable homophobia, even attacking him over his having HIV. These are the people calling Scozzafava dishonorable. (BTW, has Althouse started selling the "Althouse Hillbillies" t-shirts she promised?)

Yes, the GOP must be a party exclusively for those who think evolution is a lie, Obama is not a U.S citizen and is probably a "Manchurian Candidate" for the communists, and someone is a "RINO" if they aren't obsessed with over-turning Roe v. Wade, doesn't hate gay people, and isn't comfy with our government torturing people.

You can all throw another tea party and tell each other what a fraud the "magic negro" is because he couldn't, in 6 months, just wave a magic wand and fix the massive economic and foreign policy crises left on his plate by Bush. What America needed when we were on the brink of economic collapse and quickly losing our standing in the world, was for Saint Sarah to take over. We know she'd do a great job because she quit as governor in order to cash in.

During the next presidential election, when your freaky candidate tacks to the center to win over the moderate votes you'll need, good luck, we'll see how well that works out for ya.....

Alex said...

LoafingOaf - stop spamming this blog with the same copy/paste bullshit. I really hope Ann bans your fucking ass.

miller said...

How is pointing out that you missed a significant fact a "mere correction"?

If you don't have your facts correct, then all parts of your argument are suspect and worth rejecting.

Chase said...

Liberals smell
Democrats lie
They lie all the time

Oh what fun it is to ride
the dishonest asses on the liberal side

See: Barrel, Shooting fish in

Crimso said...

"when she ran around the country saying Obama is a best pal of terrorists"

Assuming she did that, she was either wrong or lying. There is no evidence that Ayers and Obama are "best pals." Merely pals. Man, how you Obamaites must HATE the truth that he counts an unrepentant terrorist among his friends. Talk about inconvenient.

Alex said...

Both liberals and conservatives stink with their statism. Just 2 sides of the same coin. Thank god I'm a libertarian. Once I embraced that and ditched conservative-label a few years back I was much happier. Along with the day I finally threw God under the bus and became a proud atheist.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

I tend to forget insignificant details. Chase, OTOH, thinks they will lead him to a victory.

Obama lacked the stature in 2006 that Palin has in 2009. Is this worth arguing over? Is the fact that Lamont lost not the entire point.

How many battles do you want to fight before remembering what war you're fighting?

It's your call, Chase.

Henry said...

These are the people calling Scozzafava dishonorable.

Well actually, they aren't. You can look it up.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

So now we're onto the "lie" and "smell" part of the argument. All this while arguing over a non-partisan point.

Also see: Futile. As in, a way of describing Republican capacity for determining priorities.

Chase said...

Gloat in your insignificant correction

Somewhere, sometime you'll be writing alone, BSR.

And you'll never know when I will show you to be a fool again. "Will it be today? Will he catch me when I make it up this time tomorrow? How about next week? O Merciful Pelosi, HOW LONG can I keep on deciving and believing in your goodness before he finds me out and exposes me AGAIN!!!"

Keep looking over your shoulder.

I have a feeling it won't be long . . .

Alex said...

BTW, just because Ann highlights a couple of conservatives in the comments doesn't mean she endorses that view. She's a moderate pro-choice Democrat, but more then anything Ann is a realist and she won't try to cover up the conservative viewpoint. This is not the Huffington Post, sorry to disappoint you Loafing Oaf!

miller said...

BSR, you've become just as tiresome as Cedarford.

Into the killfile for you.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

How is pointing out that you missed a significant fact a "mere correction"?

If you don't have your facts correct, then all parts of your argument are suspect and worth rejecting.


In basic statistics, they first teach the difference between accuracy and precision.

I've already outlined the difference between Palin and any other Democrat in 2006 that Chase can conjure up. And I'm not writing a thesis here. If you want to see this as a completely partisan argument, go ahead. Either way, if there was "significant" endorsement of Lamont or not, he lost.

Gingrich seems to understand this. At least Gingrich seems to have a brain. I always thought he was much more intellectually honest (or at least capable) than anyone else in his party.

Alex said...

miller - is there a blogger.com killfile? I keep hearing about this mythical feature...

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Like Matt Drudge, you fancy yourself a citizen-journalist. But you have no point. You are missing the forest for the trees. Lamont lost. If Democratic support for him was "significant" according to your estimation, then it only makes the Reptiblicans more foolish for trying to repeat that folly.

But I understand. You pounce on a pot-shot by a fellow, anonymous web-commenter and to you that trumps any intellectual merits of the argument against the Republican Circular Firing Squad.

I make a mistake. But you are being incredibly stupid here. Now there's a difference worth highlighting.

Alex said...

BSS - you don't get to decide who is and who isn't a journalist. If it were up to lefties like you there would be licensing process and of course only lefties would get the journalist license and everyone else would be banned from even running a blog that discussed the news.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Cedarford...

Yep. I conflate the nattering ravings of anti-semitic conspiracy theorists with a single musing on an election in Connecticut in 2006 ALL THE TIME!

Your inability to accurately perceive and prioritize is showing. No one remembers much about that election because it backfired. But a Democrat won. So I understand why you can't let go of this. If you guys aren't so lucky on Tuesday then the historical significance will be greater. You might relegate your party further into the historical killfile.

But feel free to pounce on me as a form of sacrifice for your short-sightedness. It's ok.

LoafingOaf said...

Are the commenters here done with making fun of Obama not dressing up in a costume when he was passing out candy to the kids on Halloween? We know very well if he had dressed in a costume the rightp-wing creeps would look for any angle to attack his choice. A lot of the Religious Right considers Halloween a Satanic event to begin with.....

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

Drudge's claim to fame was catching Bill Clinton with his pants down. Unfortunately, this didn't lead to the outcome Drudge hoped it would have. The issue is about priorities, accuracy and perception. Not nit-picking paranoid loyalty tests of the sort that Chase is busying himself with.

Alex said...

LoafingOaf - you don't win friends and influence people by issuing out epithets like "right wing creeps". We really don't need that Huffington Post style here.

Brazilian Samba Rhythm said...

In 2006 I'd consider Clinton or Gore or Kerry a "key figure in the Democratic Party establishment". Obama was an outsider. That was a big part of the whole reason for why the primary between him and Hillary was so bitter.

It's now Chase who's re-writing the definitions in order to re-write a history that isn't even favorable to how he wants it to go this time.

Not too smart.

Bill said...

Phosphorius: Sure he can win, if republicans vote their party, the way most people do in these local elections.

But let's face it: Scozzafava was chosen by local republican leaders who presumably know the lay of the land.

Everyone here has simply rejected out of hand the possibility that her "liberalism" is the product of a prudent assessment of what will fly in this district.

Because that possibility has been falsified by recent experience. Scozzafava ran as the official Republican candidate, with support from the state and national party apparatus. Despite that, she was in third place and fading.

Rialby said...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that has to be the first time a writer at the NY Times has spoken ill of Uncle Joe Stalin in at least 90 years.

Jason (the commenter) said...

Loafing Oaf: Ohhh, fun...

Dude, that post actually made me laugh!

I'm the one who first made the "dishonorable" remark and you're painting me as a social conservative. And that after I spoke against Bush and Huckabee on this very thread for their stands on gays.

Since you came in late, here is how it stands: The social liberals are calling Scozzafava dishonorable, the social conservatives can't figure out why Hoffman is being called extreme, and the mobies are trying to set the Republican Party on fire.

There's a lot to work with, have fun.

former law student said...

The social liberals are calling Scozzafava dishonorable, the social conservatives can't figure out why Hoffman is being called extreme, and the mobies are trying to set the Republican Party on fire.

As a supporter of the two-party system, I have been dismayed by my fellow Republicans voting for unelectable candidates just because they meet all the conservative litmus tests. Then Democrats get into office and proceed to bleed the taxpayers dry.

I hate to see this dumbass technique be migrated to other states.

AlphaLiberal said...

Scozzafava: "I hereby release those individuals who have endorsed and supported my campaign to transfer their support as they see fit to do so."

So why should she be attacked because she didn't endorse the guy from another party? She's a free person, not tied to Hoffman's party. Nothing dishonorable in the slightest.

Republicans are driving away moderates like Scozzafava over ideological purity.

LonewackoDotCom said...

Regarding the "pal around" bit above, that language came from the campaign, not Palin.

You know what's going to be funny (in some ways)? If Hoffman wins and then ends up supporting policies that help the Dems and cost his supporters money. Some of the hacks in the blogs and punditocracy will just play along, others will be left scratching their wee brains wondering how they could have been fooled (yet again).

MC said...

Let's not forget Scozzafava is the idiot who called the cops to get rid of a Weekly Standard reporter who was asking her questions and lied about his conduct.

So not exactly a smart and principled politician, then.

That's why I can't help but roll my eyes at all the liberals and the fake outrage at her being 'purged'. You guys like her? You can have her. But somehow I think it's a safe bet you don't actually *like* her, you just like twisting this into a stick you can beat the GOP with.

former law student said...

Let's not forget Scozzafava is the idiot who called the cops to get rid of a Weekly Standard reporter who was asking her questions and lied about his conduct.

There's a thin line between right-wing blogger and creepy stalker.

Synova said...

"As a supporter of the two-party system, I have been dismayed by my fellow Republicans voting for unelectable candidates just because they meet all the conservative litmus tests."

What? Like McCain?

MC said...

@fls

Ahahah, you're a funny guy (that was a joke right?)

I mean you're not seriously claiming it's easy to confuse a reporter working for the Weekly Standard asking a candidate about their policy positions at a campaign event with a "creepy stalker".

Because that would make you really fucking stupid.

former law student said...

Because that would make you really fucking stupid.

See? In America's small towns they expect much greater levels of civility than right-wing bloggers are used to providing.

Joe said...

I grew up in New York (the 29th district according to Wikipedia--it now covers counties in Western New York) and one thing that got me the first time I voted was the number of political parties on the ballot. In New York Candidates are allowed to be on the ballot multiple times as members of different parties. Most Republicans are also on the ballot as members of the Conservative Party. (This causes problems from time to time when people vote straight party and the line up isn't what they thought.)

former law student said...

I have been dismayed by my fellow Republicans voting for unelectable candidates just because they meet all the conservative litmus tests."

What? Like McCain?

No. Like Bill Simon instead of Riordan, allowing the useless Gray Davis to win a second term. Like Bruce Herschensohn instead of Tom Campbell, allowing the goofball Barbara Boxer to replace Alan Cranston.

Pelalusa said...

There's one big unanswered question:

Will the David Frum's of the world now have to tear up their Republican card or their RINO one?

Chase said...

Ahhh, about to settle in.

Check the blogs one last time.

Oh!

I see that BSR is STILL a liar and STILL has his pants around his ankles after getting caught and exposed by your humble fact-checker and STILL BSR is trying to change the subject about how it doesn't really matter that he had his facts straight or told the truth or blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.

BSR,the tag "liar" will hang on here for a long, long time. Stop digging yourself deeper and ruining any last possible shred of credibility that you might ever possibly hope to have here. Credibility is currency here if you ever want to be taken seriously. Opinions - everyone's entitled to their's. But when you start stating false "facts" then everyone knows you can't keep up, and it's a short time before even your ideological soulmates won't want you here; even they won't be able to trust anything you say at all.

I'm turning in and getting a good night's sleep with a clear conscience. So sad for you BSR - obviously you won't be able to do the same.

MC said...

@fls

The reporter got the 'incident' on tape and was perfectly civil.

Seriously, fls, what the hell? I thought you were one of the more thoughtful liberals around here. The guy was demonstrably calmly asking about her political positions on standard issues like card check, tax increases and abortion at a campaign event and you're trying to pretend he was like a 'creepy stalker'? That's the most abjectly stupid thing I've heard today.

former law student said...

The reporter got the 'incident' on tape and was perfectly civil.

The AP merely said the blogger's audiotape showed he "didn't yell." Refraining from yelling is an important component of civility, yet not the whole of it. Those on the receiving end of badgering often misdescribe it as yelling.

And I'm surprised you take a right-wing blogger's self-serving statement at face value. Put your critical thinking hat on for a change.

Chase said...

And I'm surprised you take a right-wing blogger's self-serving statement at face value.

As opposed to left-wing commenters self-serving statements, of course.

MC said...

@fls

Well, I'm suprised you take Scozzafava's self-serving statements at face value even after they were shown to be complete lies.

Scozzofava campaign: "This self-described reporter repeatedly screamed questions (in-your-face-style)"

The AP: "In the audio recording of the reporter's questioning played for The Associated Press by McCormack, the reporter didn't raise his voice, but repeated his unanswered questions several times"

They called the cops on a reporter and then blatantly lied about his conduct.

Methadras said...

You know at first for a while I thought Republicans would do a good job getting seats back in the house and maybe a couple in the senate. Dear God, when I see this, I keep thinking it's going to be a long, long, long 12 months with even more losses. I'm seriously starting to inwardly wonder if the GOP is about to keel over and die. Well, it's already been proven that when over 50% of the people vote themselves money, whatever nuance you held out that your society was a representative constitutional republic just went out the window. You might as well stick a fork in it and look at Ireland as a possible close 2nd. Maybe Norway or Finland.

Clyde said...

When I heard that Scozzafava had dropped out of the race, I mistakenly thought she had done the honorable thing: Realized that she couldn't win and that she would only split the Republican/Conservative vote and hand the race to the liberal Democrat, and therefore dropped out to help defeat Owen.

Now we learn that the woman has no honor. Those who endorsed Hoffman over her have shown their astute judgment of Scozzafava. Good riddance to her. Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya on the way out, Dede.

And not to be gratuitously insulting, but I saw a picture of her in the sidebar of another blog, just over a picture of Hillary, who looked absolutely svelte by comparison. I think we have a new Cankle Queen.

TMink said...

Loafing Oaf wrote: "Look at her helping her ultra-right-wing commenters smear her as a dishonorable person."

Is this just hyperbole or is your political perspective so skewed that you cannot accurately identify a real right wing extremist?

As I see it, if you are just talking smack, I will still give what you write a chance, but if you are actually that naive and uninformed, time to put you in the do not read category.

Trey

TMink said...

Loafing Oaf later wrote: "A lot of the Religious Right considers Halloween a Satanic event to begin with....."

That post answered my question. Care to give any support for your bigotry? Where are you getting the statistics? Or is this just a smear?

Trey

Dudley Do-right said...

What makes people think that Scozzafava isn't doing exactly what her Republican leaders want? Their goals are more in line with those of the Dems than they are with the Conservatives. It might well be that the dishonor here belongs as much to the Republican Party, as to Dede.

Newt and the rest of the (R)s who backed her might be just taking the hit for the (D/R) team. If so, I'm sure they'll be compensated. Their backing of Dede to begin with gave strong indication they were in bed with the Dems. How better to advance the progressive cause than to have another O. Snowe on the (R) side of the aisle. With all the triangulation, I don't trust any of them anymore.

The Repubs are salivating over getting a piece of the Democrat action when America's socialist dawn arrives; conservative (or any) principles be damned. Why wouldn't it suit their purposes to set themselves up as the strawman opposition. How better to sustain their standing and perks.

vw = morrim: "Good morrim America! Your hot steaming socialist breakfast is on the table."

TMink said...

From Instapundit, now this "lifelong Republican" has recorded robocalls for the Democratic candidate.

She is a piece of work. Again tell me how she was the right candidate?

Trey

traditionalguy said...

The voters are manipulated into believing that a Republican who always votes for the Democrat's bills is a more heroic Republican. No, they are and always were, Democrats dressed up to look like Republicans to fool the voters.

Clyde said...

Scozzafava is the biggest turncoat in New York since Benedict Arnold tried to betray West Point to the British in 1780.

former law student said...

I mistakenly thought she had done the honorable thing: Realized that she couldn't win and that she would only split the Republican/Conservative vote and hand the race to the liberal Democrat, and therefore dropped out to help defeat Owen.

This would have been a Jesus-level turning of the other cheek. Hoffman dishonored her by entering the race in the first place. Again, how much shit do conservatives expect their fellow Republicans to eat?

Now we learn that the woman has no honor. Those who endorsed Hoffman over her have shown their astute judgment of Scozzafava.

Quite a bit, apparently.

Scozzafava is the biggest turncoat in New York since Benedict Arnold

The battered woman should have stayed true to her abuser, I suppose.

Comrade X said...

fls said...As a supporter of the two-party system, I have been dismayed by my fellow Republicans voting for unelectable candidates just because they meet all the conservative litmus tests.

fls, scozzafava.... just how many Titus Republicans are there?

Republican said...

It doesn't take much to incite the teabaggers to advocating violence.

Sure it's keyboard-violence done from the safety of their homes, but violence--just the same. Ick.

I'm thankful Hoffman signed Glenn Beck's 912 pledge. At least we will know what we're dealing with (should he be elected).

Republican said...

Pelalusa: << Will the David Frum's of the world now have to tear up their Republican card or their RINO one?>>

Heh! Maybe Levin and Vannity can prank-phone call Frum and advise him.

Or force him to write Sarah Palin on the chalkboard 1000times.

btw: Scozzafava is supporting the more conservative candidate between the Dems/Repubs.(Hoffman is a third-party candidate.)

One local paper has thrown their support from Dede to Owens also.

Clyde said...

@ fls

The battered woman should have stayed true to her abuser, I suppose.

"Battered woman"? Liberal, please!

As opposed to taking the thirty pieces of silver to sleep between the sheets with the criminals and con-men in the other party? Yes, a resounding yes.

former law student said...

As opposed to taking the thirty pieces of silver to sleep between the sheets with the criminals and con-men in the other party?

If you kick your wife out of the house, you can't complain if she's walking the streets.

jeff said...

"If you kick your wife out of the house, you can't complain if she's walking the streets."
What in the world are you talking about? This is more like having a very few people tell you who you are going to marry, and you would just as well pick out the wife yourself. She was never the "wife", she was never "battered" she was a choice made by someone else forced upon the people who actually voted, and they apparently preferred someone else. To make those kind of analogies are idiotic. We will see at the election how it plays out.

Revenant said...

Lots of GOP establishment people went to bat for her, and now they look extremely foolish for having done so.

They deserve to be made foolish, don't you think?

Big Mike said...

If you kick your wife out of the house, you can't complain if she's walking the streets.

Yeah, I can. She's supposed to have more pride than that.

(Not that I'd kick my raven-hair beauty out of the house, nor would she stay out of the house, nor would I survive the consequences. I'm merely picking up on FLS's metaphore that portrays liberal Republicans as only one step above a low-class prostitute.)

Big Mike said...

And I'm surprised you take a right-wing blogger's self-serving statement at face value. Put your critical thinking hat on for a change.

You first.

LoafingOaf said...

TMink said...Is this just hyperbole or is your political perspective so skewed that you cannot accurately identify a real right wing extremist?

If you'd like to discuss hyperbole, tell me why the most popular blogger of the hard right calls Scozzafava a "radical leftist"?

Here was her headline the other day: Radical leftist GOP candidate Dede Scozzafava quits

That, from the blogger who has been proven to lie on a frequent basis, who loves torture, and who wrote a book in support of putting American citizens into concentration camps. Sh's the one all the right-wingers link to as they agree that a moderate Republican who isn't obsessed with abortion and doesn't hate gay people is a "radical leftist".

LoafingOaf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LoafingOaf said...
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AlphaLiberal said...

Fox News really blew the reporting on NY-23 race when Scozzafava dropped out.

Watch FoxNews to be misinformed!

Even with this Fox and their fans will say they are not biased.

LoafingOaf said...

The blogger I was referring to in the above post is Michelle Malkin. The last blogosphere stats I saw had her as the #1 blog of the right wing.

That post answered my question. Care to give any support for your bigotry? Where are you getting the statistics? Or is this just a smear?

Funny. The Religious Right always says people should show them more respect and listen to their lovely radio programs. So I do. One of the leading syndicated radio prgrams that the Religious Right loves is the Michael Medved Show. He does a yearly program about how Halloween is evil because it's Satanic, and that it's also evil because it teaches children to be beggers and future welfare mooches (because they go door to door asking for handouts of candy). This is mild compared with a local religious-right radio program called "What's Right & What's Left", where the host (Pastor Ernie Sanders) refuses to refer to Democrats as Democrats, insisting insead that they are all members of the Communist Party. He also claims it is obvious that Obama is the Anti-Christ.

When you look under the rock and see what's really going on on the Religious Right, you see and hear some hella crazy stuff.

Which is true of the hard left as well.

The country is getting scary for moderate Americans. Yet we are still the majority. We're the ones who decide these elections. And we will not be pushed around by a bunch of freaky people who cannot even figure out that Obama was born in the USA.