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I.Choose.Jail.I've filed my last tax return if they pass this piece of shit.
link needs fixing.
Ann - you voted for this numbskull. Own it.
Link to the House Ways and Means Committee threat:http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153583
Not one. fucking. Republican had better vote for this piece of shit threat legislation.The American people should not be being threatened by their Congress.Those fuckers work for us ... not the other way around.
Uh, before you comment, might want to go to the link.Oh wait, you can't.wv feukersUm....
Well, you could go to jail. Or you could just cough up the tax. I mean, your choice. Even if you make $100,000 a year, the tax is only $2,500. Still cheaper than paying for health insurance, and thanks to guaranteed issue, you effectively have health insurance whether you buy it or not -- you can jump right in to whatever plan you like as soon as you get sick, and the insurer will have to pay.
Do we get healthcare in jail?
Re: John Lynch -- Florida has linked the relevant press release.
I really have to move to Florida becuause there is a WHOLE LOTTA F'ING going on.Florida - I Love ya - I just pray that you are not Titus in disguise.NTTIATWWT ;-)
Healthcare gulags.That's the Democrats at their destructive authoritarian best.
Mmmm mmmm mmmmBarack Hussein ObamaHe said that all must lend a handOr to prison you we'll sendMmmm mmmm mmmmBarack Hussein ObamaHe said we must be fair todayOff to jail if you can't payMmmm mmmm mmmmBarack Hussein ObamaHe said that we must take a standNo insurance, no freedomMmmm mmmm mmmmBarack Hussein ObamaHe said red, yellow, black or whiteAll are cash cows in his sightMmmm mmmm mmmmBarack Hussein ObamaYes!Mmmm mmmm mmmmBarack Hussein Obama
You saw compassionate conservatism. Now meet compassionate liberalism.
"Do we get healthcare in jail?"Hell yeah. Free food and shelter to. Ain't got to work no stinkin' job neither. Socialist paradise!!
Isn't it the equivalent of debtors' prison?
"Do we get healthcare in jail?"If you're in Gitmo and have killed Americans, you get a swine flu vaccination!And these incompetents want us to let them run our entire health care system when they can't even get 1 medicine right.What morons.
"I really have to move to Florida becuause there is a WHOLE LOTTA F'ING going on."Sorry for my foul mood and foul mouth. I just watched Obama's "shout out" video again and am just sick to my stomach that we have to endure this heartless narcissist for one more year.I'm spitting nails, and my favorite four letter word usually spills out when I'm spitting nails.
"Well, you could go to jail. Or you could just cough up the tax."Or, we can regain power, throw some fuckers in jail for lobbying abuses, bribes, etc. and repeal this piece of shit legislation.And that's precisely what we're going to do if they pass it.Meantime, I have three words for Nancy Pelosi in reply to her jail threats:"Bring It On, Bitch."
Oh, I love it when the government adds a new way to send us to jail!
I was hoping that Ann would pick this up. The good and the bad is that Pelosi, et al. learned from the Baucus bill and its problems, that with guaranteed issue and no significant rate up for preexisting conditions, there would be minimal incentive to carry health insurance until something went wrong, and then you would just jump in, sign up, and get benefits. Heck, you could probably do it from the hospital. So, the solution is to impose ObamaCare at the point of a gun. This somewhat reminds me of HillaryCare, and all the penalties, commissions, and jail time involved. And, it was when the public figured out what was involved (thanks to that nice drawing showing all the components), that support for it fell apart.Finally, it amazes me that anyone thinks that they can fund any type of health insurance on 2.5% of income. For a family of four making $40k, that would be $1k a year. Who is paying for their health care? Surely not everyone else paying 2.5%. At $100k, that is only $2.5k. Something does not compute here.
"Well, you could go to jail. Or you could just cough up the tax."Just what we need, another way to go to jail. Note that Congress has effectively exempted themselves from all of this, and will be allowed to keep their "gold plated" policy indefinitely.
Florida and I are not the same person, although South Beach is overrated. I have had some fine hog there but they are all on drugs-not my scene.
Titus - have you pinched your loaf yet?
Also the South Beach queens are all "service workers".Not exactly marrying types.I require a corporate queen, thank you..
Loaf pinched, thanks so much for asking Alex.It was much like soft serve chocolate ice cream from a dairy queen dispenser.Many layers, levels, contours and edges. Kind of like a Frank Genhry building.
Titus - you should have that checked out. Stool should be firmer then that - get some fiber!
My assistant is a hot latino lady.When we walk the halls of my building all the Brazillian shit cleaners look at her tits and I am jealous.I say to her "Mary, they are all looking at your tits". And she says I know and I love it. And I say I am jealous, if I had those tits for one day I would park it on the street and go in some back alley and get as much hog as possible.FYI-I think she may have had a titectimy. Her tits are way too powerful and completely stand at attention.
Reichstag, meet fire. Florida said... Sorry for my foul mood and foul mouth. I just watched Obama's "shout out" video again and am just sick to my stomach that we have to endure this heartless narcissist for one more year.Unfortunately, it's three, not one, unless, of course, you know something...WV "revidlod" When you want to play it again.
"Unfortunately, it's three, not one, unless, of course, you know something..."Whoops. Did I say that? I wasn't supposed to spill those beans yet.OMG I've said too much again.
Gimme an F!F!Gimme an I!I!Gimme an S!S!Gimme an K!K!What's that spell ?FISK!What's that spell ?FISK!What's that spell ?FISK!Yeah, come on all of you young rich men,Uncle Sam needs your help again.He's got himself in a terrible messSpendin’ too much on the tonsil-exSo give up your freedom and cough up your cash,We're gonna have health in a flash.And it's one, two, three,What are we paying for ?Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,Next stop: insurance scam;And it's five, six, seven,Open up the money gates,Well there ain't no time to wonder why,Whoopee! we're all gonna buy.Well, come on doctors, let's move fast;Your big chance has come at last.Gotta go out and black the red —The only good patient is the one who’s deadAnd you know that tumor can only be curedIf every last stiff is fully insured.And it's one, two, three,What are we paying for ?Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,Next stop: insurance scam;And it's five, six, seven,Open up the money gates,Well there ain't no time to wonder why,Whoopee! we're all gonna buy.Huh!Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,Why man, this is Obama-go-go.There's plenty good money to be lostBy giving the unions a chance to boss,Just hope and pray if the firm still tanksThey haven’t already killed the banks.And it's one, two, three,What are we paying for ?Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,Next stop: insurance scam;And it's five, six, seven,Open up the money gates,Well there ain't no time to wonder why,Whoopee! we're all gonna buy.Well, come on mothers throughout the land,Insure your children with Uncle Sam.Come on fathers, don't hesitate,Get ‘em covered before it's too late.When gran-mom takes her very last breath,You can give your thanks to the panel of death.And it's one, two, three,What are we paying for ?Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,Next stop: insurance scam;And it's five, six, seven,Open up the money gates,Well there ain't no time to wonder why,Whoopee! we're all gonna buy.
Quayle that was a good Country Joe and The Fish takeoff!Althouse - are you truly freaking out about the Prez and his party's plans? wv = dummie [I swear to God]
How.Dr. Joe Medicine Crow, he of the novelty store headdress. Medal of Honor, Medal of Freedom, same difference. It's a good thing Obama is Democrat or there'd be no end to the reminders delivered in summation to irritate at every opportunity, and where opportunity fails to present itself -- it's created! Just like this.
Althouse asks the pertinent question:What chaos lies ahead?This would quickly result in lawsuits from people who can't afford insurance or fines. The courts in turn would find, instead of the law being unconstitutional, that the government must pay for what the government requires.
I can't wait to see the chaos and outrage when people like Althouse learn the Healthcare Reform bill requires everyone to give their bank account number to the govt!
Keep in mind strategy here. Opponent shouldn’t widely publicize their opposition to the most horrendous aspects of the bill until after it passes the house.Otherwise you run the risk of being corrective image consultants to the Democrats. Quick blog attention and early underground opposition helps them corrects their missteps, well before the sympathetic MSM would ever begrudgingly get around to covering it.If the most glaring sharp edges are trimmed now it is much more likely to be enacted rather than killed in its entirety later.
This bill will be enacted in the conference committee and we will find out what it says later. The rest is show.
From the link (it worked for me!), an excerpt from the proposed legislation: If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]So now the government is employing mind readers? How are they going to "determine" whether or not my behavior is "willful"? Maybe I just forgot. Maybe I didn't have the cash that month. Maybe the invoice got lost in the mail. Apparently, they have ways of "determining" my state of mind regarding my (non)payment.I thought The Men Who Stare At Goats was just a spoof.
In lieu of fine or jail term, I think people who can afford to but refuse to buy catastrophic insurance should sign a waiver that they will not seek medical attention for themselves or their dependents on the public dime. That would end freeloading and greatly simplify the system.
In lieu of fine or jail term, I think people who can afford to but refuse to buy catastrophic insurance should sign a waiver that they will not seek medical attention for themselves or their dependents on the public dime. That would make sense, except that the liberals in our midst would never let that come to pass. Besides, we aren't talking catastrophic coverage here, but rather, closer to first dollar coverage. All those high deductible policies (like I have with my HSA)? Illegal under ObamaCare.
Amazing. Via James Taranto, via Instapundit-- here's John Cassidy of the New Yorker, supporter of Obamacare:The U.S. government is making a costly and open-ended commitment to help provide health coverage for the vast majority of its citizens. I support this commitment, and I think the federal government's spending priorities should be altered to make it happen. But let's not pretend that it isn't a big deal, or that it will be self-financing, or that it will work out exactly as planned. It won't.Many Democratic insiders know all this, or most of it. What is really unfolding, I suspect, is the scenario that many conservatives feared. The Obama Administration, like the Bush Administration before it (and many other Administrations before that) is creating a new entitlement program, which, once established, will be virtually impossible to rescind. At some point in the future, the fiscal consequences of the reform will have to be dealt with in a more meaningful way, but by then the principle of (near) universal coverage will be well established. Even a twenty-first-century Ronald Reagan will have great difficult overturning it.That takes me back to where I began. Both in terms of the political calculus of the Democratic Party, and in terms of making the United States a more equitable society, expanding health-care coverage now and worrying later about its long-term consequences is an eminently defensible strategy. Putting on my amateur historian's cap, I might even claim that some subterfuge is historically necessary to get great reforms enacted. But as an economics reporter and commentator, I feel obliged to put on my green eyeshade and count the dollars."I might even claim that some subterfuge is historically necessary to get great reforms enacted"!!!!!! Our president, our representatives, our government is justified in lying to us-- with only the best intentions, of course-- for the sake of "the scenario that many conservatives feared," the imposition of an economic burden-- as far anyone knows a potentially unsustainable one, with no "meaningful" forethought of or preparedness for its consequences, no serious idea how we could tackle them (we can "worry later")-- "which, once established, will be virtually impossible to rescind." This is said openly by a bien-pensant liberal in the bien-pensant liberal New Yorker, font of liberal conventional wisdom, as if something all bien-pensant good people (i.e. not teabaggers) would find eminently understandable and sympathetic. So, from "Bush lied, people died" to, essentially, "Obama lied, he's our guide!"I can't. I can only shake my head in disbelief and dismay. We are living in a political Twilight Zone.
Or, "Obama lies, he's so wise!"
Besides, we aren't talking catastrophic coverage here, but rather, closer to first dollar coverage. All those high deductible policies (like I have with my HSA)? Illegal under ObamaCare.Can you cite me chapter and verse subsection on that? I'm in the same boat. I asked my congressman to verify this but I haven't heard back yet.
I now bet that the House fails to pass the bill this weekend.Sweet.
Capitalism motivates free men and women to work for a real return on their labor that becomes their Private Property to keep for themself and for their household. It causes all work to happen and that produces the explosion of wealth that the Government has always taken half of. Socialism just owns all things in common and NO ONE WORKS except some who show up and have to pretend to work at gun point. And there is nothing to pay them with anyway. That is why the socialists are desparately working to to get a monopoly over all privately owned guns. But thanks for that great smile and shout outs, President Obama, while you are pushing us at warp speed into your cunning socialism death trap.
I trust the wisdom and compassion of the government.
chickenlittle: Can you cite me chapter and verse subsection on that? I'm in the same boat.I saw something detailing that prohibition a few weeks ago, but who knows if it is still in the bill? I'll look around to see if I saved that - might give you a place to start.
CL:Can't give you specific page but I have heard they will not allow you to choose even a $5,000 deductible policy. It seems they can't trust you or me or Bruce Hayden with making those kind of decisions for ourselves.
"I can't wait to see the chaos and outrage when people like Althouse learn the Healthcare Reform bill requires everyone to give their bank account number to the govt!"Smart people are already emptying their bank accounts to cash and divesting themselves of taxable property (instead renting).Why do you think banks are failing? Runs on cash.If you have money in banks, you're a moron. All risk and no reward.
FL:Where do you put your money if not in banks?
This point might be worth raising if Harry Reid ever decides to go on again about how paying taxes is voluntary. In the meantime, the fact that not paying them is punishable with jail time isn't exactly the shocker of the ages.
"Where do you put your money if not in banks?"I'm not sure it's good security to answer that question. Suffice it to say that I've secured it elsewhere off Nancy Pelosi's grid.Many investors have removed it entirely from this country, and almost all have converted it into large quantities of gold in anticipation of massive inflation ahead.
Photog714's 7:25 comment made me laugh.I will echo Bruce's query: if you're paying 2.5%, how are things being paid for? My (admittedly gold-plated) health insurance costs $14K per year. I do not make $560K per year to pay for that. (I wish!)I know congresscritters are dumb as a box of rocks, but someone in DC might know math.And I will repeat my forecast: If this is passed, and congress exempts itself from it, every single person running for Congress against an incumbent will run ads exploiting that. Rightly so. And if it means a bunch of incumbents get kicked out, that's the small silver lining.
As they say in Texas, "Come and Take It". I'll be waiting.
Mad Man:Sounds like a big silver lining to me.
"I'll be waiting."And loaded for bear.
Silver lining that's way expensive, that's why I said small.
"My (admittedly gold-plated) health insurance costs $14K per year."Are you in any way, shape or form consuming $14,000 a year of health care?You're being anally raped, dude. A full-on Polanski.I hope you're getting a reach-around.
"In lieu of fine or jail term, I think people who can afford to but refuse to buy catastrophic insurance should sign a waiver that they will not seek medical attention for themselves or their dependents on the public dime."Why don't we just do that now? Look ma! I just solved the health care "crisis"!
I am not clear on this. Are they saying you must purchase a plan with a $15,000 deductible per family? Or a plan with a $15,000 per year premium? Frankly the highest deductible plan (why I chose it) I have ever seen (admittedly for an individual) is $1,000 and then 80/20 up to $5,000 per year, which cost me about $100 per month.At my level of income the fine would be far cheaper. Perhaps this is how they would kill private insurance? I need to see more analysis of this.
Or a plan with a $15,000 per year premium?Yes ... this. A plan with a $15,000 annual family (4) premium. This is the least expensive premium according to the Congressional Budget Office.It's much cheaper to just buy ammo and wait.Incidentally, there are 237 millionaires in Congress ... 44% of all Congressmen are millionaires.http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29235.html
If you oppose this, ask yourself who's taking effective steps to oppose it. Certainly, those publicizing the plan (as long as they aren't spreading disinfo, which can't be discounted) are doing their part.However, no one is actually opposing this plan (assuming that is actually their plan) in a highly effective way that could block the plan. That would involve doing this. See if you can find anyone else promoting such an effective plan.Althouse certainly isn't promoting that highly effective plan, and neither is her buddy Instapundit. No major bloggers are promoting that plan, neither are any major pundits or politicians (Bachmann is kinda in the right neighborhood). The tea parties think waving loopy signs and throwing tantrums is effective, despite everything indicating that it isn't. And, not only is no one else promoting that highly effective plan, but some even try to degrade it, such as the libertarians at Reason and Protein Wisdom.So, we've got something that Althouse seems worried about, but no one else is trying to harness that worry into highly effective action.What exactly do those people do for a living? Seriously: do any of them have to solve problems on the job, or do they just stand around moaning and waving loopy signs?If you don't like the plan (assuming that's the actual plan), follow the plan at the link.
I've decided that this is where I will draw the line. I'm 51 and still have all my teeth, my tonsils, and my appendix. John 3:16 is my insurance policy, and I plan to keep it that way. If they arrest me, so be it. At my trial, I will respond to everything ending in a question mark with the same seven words: "You have no business with me, shyster." That goes for the ~scarequote~judge~/scarequote~ as well.Fuck these despicable shyster-politicians and the brain-dead populist wave they rode in on. I've had enough.Kill a lawyer for Christ.
I would probably leave the country if this health care bill passes. I am a self-employed technical and sales consultant. I currently pay around $400 per month for a high-deductible "catastrophic" health insurance policy for myself and my wife (we have no kids). If I were to have to pay up to $1200 per month, it would actually be cheaper for my wife and I to relocate and set up in China (my wife is a Japanese national and much of my work involves China and the rest of East Asia) than to pony up for this bogus health care reform. The cost savings alone would be around $8,000 per year and the living costs are lower in China as well. $8,000 pays for two good beach holiday trips per year. I can run my business as effectively in China as I can here in the U.S.I suspect many other who are in a position to do the same will do so if this turkey of a bill passes into law. I think it is just insane if this bill passes with this provision intact.
Those who comply will be levied a 15% tax to make work for unemployed construction workers to build jails to house those who have willfully ignored Mad Queen Pelosi's mandates (womandates?). Reoffenders will be sent to Club Gitmo which will be emptied out of unfairly persecuted Islamist innocents by good King Obama in January 2010.
They can arrest me now.Ain't got no job.Ain't got no money.Ain't got no property.Just barely feeding me and my dogs.I figure I can feed environuts to the dogs if it gets too bad.I'll hunt for elk.And Liberals.
Don't get mad. Get even.
Reminder to those who want to get out of the country: you are too damned late. The US is the only country in the world to levy wordwide income taxes. You will pay if you remain a US citizen, else you have to pay them off, a tax on everything you own before they let you shed your citizenship. Better bet is to remain unemployed or underemployed, to take advantage of the welfare checks, or low-income tax credits.
Note that Congress has effectively exempted themselves from all of this, and will be allowed to keep their "gold plated" policy indefinitely.Just because they can doesn't mean they should. Anyone in Congress who attempts to subject others to Obamacare without using it him/herself needs to be voted out of office at the next election without question. I have no tolerance for this whatsoever; my only response regarding this legislation to anyone who wishes to vote for it would be, "You first."
The obvious countermove is to refrain from interstate commerce.
This isn't so bad. You pay your 2 or 3 or 4 grand fine in lieu of insurance. When you get the bad biopsy you trundle over to the gov'ment shop and get yourself some surance. They were right! It is cheaper.
Re: chicken little:Can you cite me chapter and verse subsection on that? I'm in the same boat. I asked my congressman to verify this but I haven't heard back yet.Can't do it with the actual house bill, of course, because the Democrats have decided to keep it secret, until they vote on it. But in the last public draft, look at section 222 ("Essential Benefits Package Defined"), subsection (c) ("Requirements Relating to Cost-Sharing and Minimum Actuarial Value"). Under subsection (c)(1), a plan does not provide an "essential benefits package" if it imposes cost-sharing (e.g. deductibles or copay) for "preventive" services and vaccinations. Under 222(c)(2), cost sharing is then capped initially at $5,000 for individuals and $10,000 for families. Actuarially, cost sharing is limited under 222(c)(3) to 30%, which I take to mean that the plan has to provide for at least 70% of the medical coverage actually consumed by its participants over a year, and has to adjust its cost sharing to make sure it is calibrated correctly, year to year. So, depending, the cap could actually be substantially lower than $5,000/$10,000.To close the loop on how this is mandated, a "qualified health benefits plan" must provide the "essential benefits package," subject to the requirements of sec. 222. Only "qualified health benefits plans" satisfy the mandate, and get you out of paying the penalty tax. I think only qualified health benefits can be sold on the health insurance exchanges too. So this doesn't actually make alternative health benefits plans (with steeper cost-sharing) illegal, it just squeezes them out of the marketplace, because people will have to value them at cost + tax, and they're accordingly highly unlikely to be the primary health insurance plan for most consumers.
"This isn't so bad. You pay your 2 or 3 or 4 grand fine in lieu of insurance. When you get the bad biopsy you trundle over to the gov'ment shop and get yourself some surance. They were right! It is cheaper."That strategy will be outlawed 30 seconds after this stupid fucking law passes you moron.There's only one way to stop this: Call your Congressman and threaten to run against his fucking ass in the next election if he votes for this piece of shit threat legislation.And if he dares you to, remind him that you believe in the 2nd Amendment.
I wonder if it has occurred to any of the geniuses in Congress that the lack of improvement in our employment statistics is due to their impending legislative schemes. Why would anyone, especially a small business owner, want to hire additional workers for whom they might have to provide expensive insurance or face financial penalties? And given this Congress's propensity for enacting retroactive penalties on disfavored classes, i.e. Wall Street bankers & their salaries/bonuses, who knows what they might force you to provide for an employee that you hired & then laid off?If they really cared at all about the economy they would declare a moratorium on health care "reform" and cap-and-trade until things stabilize and begin to improve. The climate of uncertainty and punitive attitude towards the business community is a major factor in our continued recession.
"If they really cared at all about the economy they would declare a moratorium on health care "reform" and cap-and-trade until things stabilize and begin to improve."You've got it backwards. They're intentionally creating the unemployment crisis to create support for their health care reform package.Since most people have health insurance through their employer, the President has purposely implemented policies to make unemployment be as high as possible.For example, the President could reduce the importation of cheap labor by restricting visas. He hasn't done that, however.The President could request that Congress place import duties on certain products to stimulate demand for US workers. But he hasn't done so. That's his policy and it's specifically designed to make unemployment worse.As soon as the health care tax increase passes, he'll change policies. But until then, he wants people to be unemployed. That way, they'll support what he's calling "free health care" but which in reality is nothing more than a tax increase on the middle class.We could impeach him for his treachery, but only if Republicans control the Congress ... so come 2010, do the right thing.Vote those fuckers out.And if that doesn't work, then it's on to Plan B.
Keep in mind, when liberals/progressives/Democrats talk about justice, equality, freedom and tolerance, what they mean is:We're going to tell you what to do.Then you'll do it, or go to jail.This is where their philosopy inevitably leads.
“Thank you for writing to me about the current state of our healthcare system” and that is about the only thing in your formatted letter that was for real. The rest of your letter is nothing but words. You were sent to congress to do a job for the people of New York State. Your message to me, through your actions and letters, is the only way to correct what is wrong is to raise taxes and waist our hard earned money on new laws. Every bill that becomes law cost more money and more hours for the American worker to work and in some cases getting a 2nd job to pay for those who don’t work and to pay for “your tax burden laws”. Since you were in Congress prior to the economy collapsing what were you doing to stop the banks, wall street and big companies from ripping us off? The laws signed by Congress did nothing and now you want to introduce new laws to take more money and in the end I, the American worker and future generations will be paying for. Who has been prosecuted for putting your fellow Americans into debt? What about the money aka stimulus money you and congress gave to bankrupt companies to bail out. What did our money get – more top level managers receiving BIG bonuses and no loans for small businesses. Congress wrote these laws and the end result of government involvement results in new laws to correct the old laws. What steps has congress done to lower my taxes? How much of taxpayers money has been sent to support other countries? How much money will be attached to your new tax collecting bills will go towards your “perks” that will be added to the bill? Will every congressman also chose the same “health reform law” or stick with the coverage the elite have just for being in congress? Why don’t you speak up about this perk and make the change and chose a local health plan? I have cut back on spending and by doing so I have money to pay more taxes to support your agenda. What happen to “the buck stops here” and saving money before spending it?Undocumented or illegal immigrants who go to any hospital will be treated. Who’s paying that bill – oh yeah our taxes. If an American has no insurance who pays for it – oh yeah - claim bankruptcy and sell everything you own. As a resident of NYS and not a “resident of Washington DC” what are you doing for the NYS resident? It’s time to stop thinking about the democratic or republican party and start working for us. I have enclosed two articles regarding an undocumented student who can receive tuition aid and an article regarding Charlie Rangel’s taxes. Where do you stand on these issues? What are you doing about it? Also regarding the health reform bill – how does an abortion become a health issue and why do I have to pay for it? Please, don’t send me another formatted letter telling me about this and that. Actions speak louder than words and right now your actions has revealed to me that you work for others and not for the voters who sent you to congress.
I called your Washington office and voiced my opinion regarding the Health Care Bill. I am against such a bill especially when it is being forced upon us. Today I read the attached article threatening the American people with hefty fines and/or go to jail if we don’t comply with this so call health reform bill. Are you people nuts? Where does congress get off threatening the American people with arrest if we don’t fall in line. This is not a country run by dictators. I can’t believe that you have read the bill and made no movement to question such an act of being arrested. Why are you falling in line and not defending us from such actions? Please read the bill and vote with a clear conscience. You were sent to Washington to represent all New Yorkers and not the “political party you work for.”
Florida, I hope you are wrong and that Congress is just stupid and not downright evil. But it does appear at times that their attitude is "we are determined to help you even if it destroys you!"It's all for the good of the children, don't you know. We might throw Daddy in jail but he is obviously guilty of child abuse if he doesn't provide you with the proper health insurance.
I realize that this is only an anecdote and the plural of anecdote is not "data." But here is a real life example of what happens when the government controls aspects of our health care, in this case the swine flu vaccine supply & distribution. This mother's severely disabled teenage son was scheduled for a swine flu vaccination which he did not receive due to shortages. He is now hospitalized with H1N1 & pneumonia and on a ventilator. Of course since he is severely disabled he is a big drain on our health care system. Perhaps his life threatening illness is a feature and not a bug.Dear Son updated diagnosis
For Republicans, Nancy may be the gift that keeps on giving. Do you realize how many voters will freak if they did something like this?
It amazes me that grown men and women could listen to all of the crazy things Obama had said, look at his insane rogues gallery of associates and friends, and then vote for him on the assumption he would be a moderate.Obama has always been a fool and he has always acted as such. Pelosi and crew have always been fools and have always acted as such. How condescending was it that everyone wanted to vote for the black guy regardless of sanity or qualification? Even his vice president could only come up with "clean and well-spoken" as laudatory adjectives for this cretin.Our political class has never been of lower caliber than it is now.
How much to build enough jails to hold us all?
Cough it up, you stupid plebs. Nancy Pelosi loves you.Big Daddy Government knows what's best. It's for the common good.If you are against this wonderful bill - you are mean and you want people to die.
Where do you put your money if not in banks?What have I said? Cash will be king. Especially good for the some self employed who have options that are not available to the wage earners to lower their taxable income to a level where they are not so impacted.Cash. Barter.Assuming that they don't completely gut the financial system to allow them to raid 'every' financial instrument. Put the money into other types of legal entities besides just in your own name. Irrevocable trusts where you are not the trustee,. Charitable remainder trusts. CRATs CRUTs. Annuities for your benefit owned by someone else. Cash value life insurance policies and fund just up to being a MEC. Then take a loan from your cash.Gifts to minors.Retirement accounts. IRA ROTH 401k etc.Self employed set up a Defned Benefit Plan. For older people the amount of money you have to contribute is rather large and would take it off the table. We hope.There is a lot more.The wealthy will take advantage of these strategies. The ordinary middle class guy that Obama is supposed to be helping......he's screwed.
It may be provocative to quote the talking points of one party or another but, for a law professor, this does not seem to be a very substantive approach to the serious issues the healthcare reform proposals involve. It may not matter to some that the penalty provisions that the House bill references are already part of the tax code or that virtually no one in this country goes to jail for tax evasion or that few Americans will have to pay $15,000 for family coverage. Indeed, the issue that seems to be concerning many is the concept of a government mandate of insurance in the first place. This is, of course, a fundamental issue as to which reasonable people could differ. Perhaps next time you could actually offer your own thoughts and analysis of this issue. That might prompt a different set of comments. You can't be proud of what we're seeing here.
Lest anyone think that I have no sympathy for the poor and uninsured, have no fear. I have personally witnessed how the uninsured are treated for severe illness and there is no difference between them and the wealthy. My best friend's son, who was barely in the "normal" range for intellect, had testicular cancer for which he did not seek treatment until it was obviously out of control. He eventually died of brain metastases, but he was given every treatment available even before he was disabled enough to qualify for Medicaid. His care was of the highest quality and he was never denied any drug or medical treatment due to his uninsured status.Also, my brother-in-law, a "disabled veteran" (chronically unemployed alcoholic) had throat cancer and underwent radiation treatment at the best facility in Nebraska. He is currently cancer free and still living off of our government's generous benefits, although his military service was stateside and he never saw combat.
Re: Sam:or that few Americans will have to pay $15,000 for family coverage.Is this your projection? That the health care bill is going to bring costs down below $15,000? Because the average cost for a family of four today is about $13,400 (although generally, a substantial chunk of that is employer subsidized. There are already a whole lot of people who are facing that kind of bill. And under the Democrats' plan, a lot of them will choose to pay the penalty tax instead. But when they need care, and hop into the guaranteed issue plans, where's the extra money to pay for the actual care going to come from? Inflated premiums (i.e. that $15,000 is going to go way up) or massive taxes, to expand the health insurance subsidies.
Randy, AJ, Balfegor: Thanks for the thoughts and links.I'm hoping this thing fails tonight.
The guillotine always comes out eventually with collectivists, doesn't it?
Retirement accounts. IRA ROTH 401k etc.I'm not so sure those will stay safe. Wasn't there a fair amount of Congressional talk last fall about confiscating retirement accounts and putting them into a new Social Security retirement scheme? To "protect" workers from the vagaries of the stock market?
It may be provocative to quote the talking points of one party or another but, for a law professor, this does not seem to be a very substantive approach to the serious issues the healthcare reform proposals involve. It may not matter to some that the penalty provisions that the House bill references are already part of the tax code or that virtually no one in this country goes to jail for tax evasion or that few Americans will have to pay $15,000 for family coverage. Indeed, the issue that seems to be concerning many is the concept of a government mandate of insurance in the first place. This is, of course, a fundamental issue as to which reasonable people could differ. Perhaps next time you could actually offer your own thoughts and analysis of this issue. That might prompt a different set of comments. You can't be proud of what we're seeing here.Ok, Sam, we are all waiting with bated breath for your own thoughts and analysis here. Please explain to this audience how the government can possibly provide more health care for more people at a lower overall cost, esp. with the proposed system. Also, why you are at it, please explain why you think that we will have more innovation, not less. Also, how the added taxes and expenses here are going to help us get out of the current recession. I will come up with some more questions when you, too, quite spouting party lines and contribute more than ad hominem attacks.
"Retirement accounts. IRA ROTH 401k etc."I'm not so sure those will stay safe. Wasn't there a fair amount of Congressional talk last fall about confiscating retirement accounts and putting them into a new Social Security retirement scheme? To "protect" workers from the vagaries of the stock market?Yeah. That what I said. IF they don't gut the financial system. Everytime I turn around the rules change requiring new calculations and new stratagies. The Democrats seem to think that we are all retarded children that need to be protected from ourselves. Hence this abomination of a so called health care bill and every other power grab that they are trying to shove down our throats.
Reminder to those who want to get out of the country: you are too damned late. The US is the only country in the world to levy wordwide income taxes.This is true, but the requirement to pay an additional 2.5% tax for not having "proper" health insurance does not apply to expats. None of the requirements of this health care bill apply to expats.If I return to Asia (I lived there for 10 years before), I would get the same kind of high deductible "catastrophic" insurance that I have now, but would be even cheaper (medical procedures, especially surgery, are far cheaper in the rest of the world than in the U.S.). See, the problem for me is that this health care bill effectively bans the kind of insurance policies that are best suited for me, and would require me to buy a comprehensive policy that would be around 2-3 times more expensive than what I pay now. If I was a high-income person (say around $300K or so per year), I would just shrug it off and pay up. However, I am not and that $8-10K per year or so that I would have to pay in premiums, I would rather save or spend elsewhere. I honestly believe this bill is unlikely to pass the Senate, for various reasons. The current Senate version of the bill is radically different (and much more moderate) than the House version. Reconciling them into a unified bill is going to be a nightmare. Likewise, the cap and trade bill is unlikely to go any where either.If we make it to the end of the year without either of these bills making it into law, I think we will be OK because next year is the mid-term elections and many of the "blue-dog" democrats will feel the cold winds from their constituents.
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